America's Forgotten Terror Victims

[red dog 1]

"Community based harassment, also known as gang stalking, organized stalking, and multi-stalking is a grown-up version of schoolyard bullying.
Multiple individuals within a community participate in the harassment and stalking of a single individual. However, rather than attack a victim physically, techniques are used to undermine a person psychologically.
This can be far more damaging than a physical attack because not only is it very hard to prove, but it is extremely traumatizing to the victim."
http://www.multistalkervictims.org/

In 2009, The United States Department of Justice issued a Special Report, Stalking Victimization in the United States (Pub# NCJ 224527)
Freedom Of Information Act documents "prove that this survey misled the American public by omitting material facts about gang stalking. Furthermore,there were several survey methodology errors that grossly underestimated the extent of this problem."
http://www.nowpublic.com/world/gang-stalking-new-doj-foia-documents-prove-doj-knows-truth/
(Note..DOJ's Office for Victims of Crime, (OVC), offers assistance to stalking victims who report a single stalker; but "OVC does not provide any direct assistance to victims of multi-stalker incidents.&quot

Organized stalking is America's Most Ignored Crime.
It is ignored by local, state and federal law enforcement.
Letters to local, state and federal politicians from their constituents who are organized stalking victims asking for help are also ignored.
Perhaps the worst part is that the American media totally ignores this crime, (and it's victims), and refuses to cover it as a legitimate news story, so the American people know little or nothing about it.
Billions of tax dollars are spent every year "fighting terrorism."
According to an academic paper by John Mueller of Ohio State, and Mark Stewart of the University of Newcastle in Australia,
"America's Spending on counter-terrorism outpaced all anti-crime spending by some $15 billion".http://www.economist.com/blogs/gulliver/2011/04/deterring_terrorism/
How much is spent fighting the terrorists who stalk, harass and use psychological torture techniques on hundreds of thousands of innocent Americans every year?
Not one thin dime!

[Capt. Obvious]

1. I think the people in my neighborhood who

don't pick up after their dogs is the more pressing (and real) crime we should all be worried about.

How many shoes must be ruined before this is taken seriously?

[snagglepuss]

2. The person responsible for the stalking org (1st link) is either

doing this as a joke or has serious mental health issues.

[red dog 1]

4. Please elaborate.on your comment

[MadHound]

3. Or these "victims" are just very paranoid

Seriously, your first link has a description of "organized stalking" that sounds like a clinical paranoid case, a person bumping into you, passing on a remark that wasn't meant for you(but somehow really is), spilling something on you, stealing small things over time(like small things simply don't get lost over time), etc. etc. I mean really now.

Your "Now public" links continuously mention Fox news as their source, and praise Fox for bringing this problem to light.

It sounds like RW paranoia, and under the rubric of this "crime's" broad definition, I should call the police the next time somebody cuts me off at the mall.

[Odin2005]

5. It's classic schizotypal thinking.

Assuming random things have some hidden meaning important to you. It's the same thinking found among conspiracy theorists.

[MadHound]

7. Apparently you don't read your links

"Thanks for the truthful reporting of the News once again FOX NEWS!!!!"
http://www.nowpublic.com/world/gang-stalking-santa-cruz-police-lieutenant-speaks-out#ixzz1u8GH7vfQ

In fact in that link, there are five separate mentions of Fox news, and at least two links to Fox or Fox affiliates.

And really now, it is hard to take this description of "gang stalking" seriously:
"Imagine a group of school students who decide to "work over" a target. Each member of the
group can do something minor, maybe once a day. "Accidentally" bumping into the target,
passing a remark in the hall which can be said was not intended for the target, spilling
something on the target's back in the lunchroom, stealing items of small value over time
belonging to the target, and the familiar rumour campaign. No one member of the group ever
does anything serious."
(Oh, and the pdf that this comes from, the one you linked to, also mentions Fox news as a source).

Don't worry though, you prompted me to do some searching on this supposed phenomenon, and this is what I found. When I typed in "gang stalking" the first hit was from urban dictionary, which provides fairly similar definitions as your first link. But it also mentioned that the government could do this, it was part of COINTELPRO, and other such "out there" stuff. Alrighty then. The next hit was a blog that is full of so much woo that it is impossible to put it all down here. The next hit was another blog which described gang stalking as "mind control". The next two hits are from Now Public, and the next hit after that is another woo web site, as is the next, and the next, and the next. . .

Look, I like good woo and conspiracy theories as much as the next person, it is great entertainment. But before you take something seriously, you need to have some facts to back it up with, and with gang stalking those facts simply aren't there. I've run searches for any sort of credible mention of gangstalking, you know, something besides blogs and forum post, and it isn't there. If this is such a major threat, then surely local, state, and federal law enforcement agencies would make mention of it, somewhere, sometime. But the only thing that comes up in relation to both law enforcement and gang stalking leads to web sites that claim that local, state and federal law enforcement are actually participating in gang stalking.

I'm sorry, but my credibility simply can't stretch that far. Yes, I can even grant that there are certain, limited instances of gang stalking. But in the light of any credible evidence, I simply can't grant that these incidents are as widespread a threat as you claim, one that is perpetrated by the government, school kids, gangs, fellow co workers, and whoever else you feel threatened by.

If you want to convince me, and others, of this "threat", then give us something credible, not woo, not conspiracy theories, not somebody talking like they're paranoid or schizophrenic.

[red dog 1]

9. There is nothing "woo" about multistalkervictims.org

Last edited Wed May 9, 2012, 03:14 AM - Edit history (1)

Multistalkervictims.org has helped thousands of victims of organized stalking by providing them with information on this type of stalking, and provides many links to other reputable websites, as well as support groups for OS victims, other OS organizations, books on the subject, OS survivor stories, and much more.
It was started by Eleanor White..
It was Eleanor who first coined the term "gang stalking"; but she prefers to use the term "multi-stalking" now.

[MadHound]

10. Are you listening to yourself?

Are you reading what you write?

You are claiming that the reason that all of those sites are full of woo and paranoia is because that is "the way the criminals who run organized stalking want it to be."

So now these "criminals" are even more powerful, not just stalking people, not just driving their "victims" to the point of madness, not just part of some grand law enforcement conspiracy that not only prevents law enforcement from investigating this "crime", but has recruited law enforcement to carry out gang stalking(along with actual gangs, school kids, co-workers and that pack of feral dogs down the street), now these criminal overlords are somehow controlling the entire web in order to make anybody who dares to speak out about gang stalking on the web to be considered a kook and conspiracy theorist.

Really?

I'm finding no solid credible evidence of gang stalking anywhere, it isn't in court records, it isn't in law enforcement records, it isn't in any reputable papers. What I am finding is that apparently the singer Madonna, the "cult of Kabbalah&quot Kabbalah isn't a cult is an esoteric school of religious thought originally derived from Judaism), the FBI, the KKK, and endless others are involved in. These aren't logically based, well reasoned conclusions, these are woo, plain pure and simple. I mean really now, at least the JFK assassination and 911 theories have some serious evidence to back them up. All this has is increasingly paranoid ravings.

You are starting to go down the same path that a lot of people went down in cases ranging from the Salem Witch Trials to the day care scare of the '80's and '90's. This is something that could get a lot of innocent people hurt, killed and injured if this sort of paranoid hysteria takes hold.

I suggest that you take a big, huge step back from all of this, it is starting to effect your outlook and your ability to reason logically, intelligently and clearly. If you keep going down this path you're going to wind up thinking that everybody is part of this grand conspiracy, and that is not a good place to be.

[MadHound]

12. Well, first of all, it hasn't been a "casual investigation".

It has been a rather in-depth one, involving searching sites like Case Net and other such places that record criminal and civil litigation. Nothing has shown up.

Second of all, the article that you linked to in Wired isn't about gang stalking, but rather about one individual harassing another.

Third of all, the video that you linked to is no longer available. OH NOES! The all powerful criminals behind gang stalking got You Tube to remove it!

Look, I've been very patient and open minded with you concerning this so called phenomenon, but you keep going further and further out there. If you want to believe in this woo, fine, but don't expect sane, rational people to believe it when you simply can't offer any credible proof.

[red dog 1]

13. This is something that already has gotten "innocent people hurt, killed & injured"

Last edited Tue May 8, 2012, 04:19 AM - Edit history (1)

The Justice Department's Office for Victims of Crime (OVC) refers to them as
"victims of multi-stalker incidents"

[MadHound]

14. Really? They do?

I find that hard to believe since when I go to the Office of Victims of Crime and do searches using the phrase you put in quotes, and variations thereof, nothing comes up(and it only takes 0.3 seconds each time).

Perhaps you have an actual link to the OVC discussion of this topic. Or is this some factoid that you pulled from the same site that claims that the singer Madonna organizes gang-stalking and you thought it sounded solid and good and just threw it out there.

I also notice that you deleted your post number 11 after I pointed out certain embarrassing facts. Much like you revised your OP after I pointed out certain embarrassing facts. Tired of looking foolish?

Like I've said time and again throughout this thread, I can believe that this crime occurs on a very limited basis, after all, criminals come up with all sorts of weird ideas. But it doesn't happen on a scale that you claim, and it certainly doesn't involve the wide range of people claimed, ranging from the FBI to school kids, Madonna to co-workers, Kabbalah to actual gangs, on and on.

I hope that getting bludgeoned with facts is finally getting through to you. Or are you now thinking that I'm some sort of mysterious, behind the scenes leader of criminal gang-stalkers deliberately setting out to make you look foolish?

[red dog 1]

15. "I also noticed that you deleted your post # 11 after I pointed out certain

Last edited Wed May 9, 2012, 05:31 PM - Edit history (1)

embarrassing facts. Much like you revised your OP after I pointed out certain embarrassing facts. Tired of looking foolish?"


Actually, what I'm tired of is replying to your caustic, mean-spirited posts.

1) I deleted post # 11 because you pointed out in post # 12 that the video I linked to in post # 11 was no longer available; and the only way I was able to remove that video was to delete the entire post, which I did.

2) I deleted the link to the article about the Santa Cruz Police Department openly discussing gang stalking, because, as you pointed out, the author of the article heaped praise on Fox News and listed several links to other Fox News stories.
There is a You Tube video showing the news conference held by the Santa Cruz Police Dept at

3) As far as the Office for Victims of Crime describing victims of organized stalking as "victims of multi-stalker incidents"....This was in an e-mail response which I received from OVC after I had sent them an e-mail asking if OVC offered any help to stalking victims who were being stalked by a group of stalkers.
The response I got was "OVC does not provide any direct assistance to victims of multi-stalker incidents"
You can verify this yourself by asking them the same question at .http://ovc.ncjrs.gov/askovc/

More information about OVC pertaining to gang stalking can be found doing a Google search "Who's Getting Thousands of Gang Stalking Reports a Month?"

And finally, I don't feel at all that you have "bludgeoned me with facts"

What you have bludgeoned me with are mean-spirited, nasty, sarcastic personal attacks.

I won't be responding to you anymore because I believe the adage "Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."

[red dog 1]

8. Reply to Odin2005

"It's classic schizotypal thinking. Assuming random things have some hidden meaning to you. It's the same thinking found among conspiracy theorists."

What is "random" about people parked in vehicles doing illegal surveillance on you, DAILY.

What is "random" about vehicles following you, DAILY, rarely the same vehicle?

What is "random" about getting 10 or 15 annoyance phone calls, every single day, often from telephone numbers that do not show up on Caller ID?

"Organized stalking is a form of terrorism used against an individual in a malicious attempt to reduce the quality of a person's life so they will have a nervous breakdown, become incarcerated, institutionalized, experience constant mental, emotional or physical pain, become homeless and/or commit suicide.
This is done using well-orchestrated accusations, lies, rumors, bogus investigations, setups. framings, intimidation, overt or covert threats, vandalism, thefts, sabotage, torture, humiliation, emotional terror and general harassment.
It is a 'ganging up' by members of the community who follow an organizer and participate in a systematic terrorizing of an individual."
http://www.antigangstalkingnetwork.20fr.com/about_2.html

If it's al just "random", why are so many OS victims whistle-blowers (government and corporate), and anti-war activists?

Was Cointelpro "random", or just "conspiracy theory"?

How about MK-ULTRA?..."random"?...."conspiracy theory"?

I think you need to open your closed mind and read what former intelligence officers are saying about having been 'targeted" by the very agencies they used to work for

The only thing "random" about organized stalking, is the fact that some victims may have been chosen at random, for whatever purpose, ...perhaps to "train the perps",.. i.e., the low-level thugs who do "the dirty work" at the behest of whoever pays them.

As long as closed-minded "hear no evil, see no evil" people like you just shrug off the reports from the many thousands of victims of this type of stalking, ..the police, the politicians and the media will continue to be like you, and will merely dismiss OS victims as being "paranoid", and will dismiss people like myself as being "conspiracy theorists" for merely trying to bring this topic up for open discussion.