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Faryn Balyncd

(5,125 posts)
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 09:54 AM Apr 2015

Fast Track Bill Would Legitimize White House Secrecy and Clear the Way for Anti-User Trade Deals






Fast Track Bill Would Legitimize White House Secrecy and Clear the Way for Anti-User Trade Deals


April 16, 2015


Following months of protest, Congress has finally put forth bicameral Fast Track legislation today to rush trade agreements like the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) and the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP) through Congress. Sens. Orrin Hatch and Ron Wyden, and Rep. Paul Ryan, respectively, introduced the bill titled the Bipartisan Congressional Trade Priorities and Accountability Act of 2015. With Fast Track, lawmakers will be shirking their constitutional authority over trade policy, letting the White House and the U.S. Trade Representative pass Internet rules in back room meetings with corporate industry groups. If this passes, lawmakers would only have a small window of time to conduct hearings over trade provisions and give a yea-or-nay vote on ratification of the agreement without any ability to amend it before they bind the United States to its terms.


The Fast Track bill contains some minor procedural improvements from the version of the bill introduced last year. However, these fixes will do little to nothing to address the threats of restrictive digital regulations on users rights in the TPP or TTIP. The biggest of these changes is language that would create a new position of Chief Transparency Officer that would supposedly have the authority to “consult with Congress on transparency policy, coordinate transparency in trade negotiations, engage and assist the public, and advise the United States Trade Representative on transparency policy.” ...However, given the strict rules of confidentiality of existing, almost completed trade deals and those outlined in the Fast Track bill itself, we have no reason to believe that this officer would have much power to do anything meaningful to improve trade transparency, such as releasing the text of the agreement to the public prior to the completion of negotiations. As it stands, the text only has to be released to the public 60 days before it is signed, at which time the text is already locked down from any further amendments.


There is also a new "consultation and compliance" procedure, about which Public Citizen writes:
The bill’s only new feature in this respect is a new “consultation and compliance” procedure that would only be usable after an agreement was already signed and entered into, at which point changes to the pact could be made only if all other negotiating parties agreed to reopen negotiations and then agreed to the changes (likely after extracting further concessions from the United States). That process would require approval by 60 Senators to take a pact off of Fast Track consideration, even though a simple majority “no” vote in the Senate would have the same effect on an agreement. Thus, essentially the Fast Track bill does the same as it ever did—tying the hands of Congress so that it is unable to give meaningful input into the agreement during its drafting, or to thoroughly review the agreement once it is completed.


.....But more troubling than what has been included in the negotiating objectives, is what has been excluded. There is literally nothing to require balance in copyright, such as the fair use right. On the contrary; if a country's adoption of a fair use style right causes loss to a foreign investor, it could even be challenged as a breach of the agreement, under the investor-state dispute settlement (ISDS) provisions. Further, the "Intellectual Property" section of today's bill is virtually identical to the version introduced in 2002, and what minor changes there are do not change the previous text's evident antipathy for fair use. So while the new bill has added, as an objective, "to ensure that trade agreements foster innovation and promote access to medicines," an unchanged objective is "providing strong enforcement of intellectual property rights." What happens if those two objectives are in conflict? For example, in many industries, thin copyright and patent restrictions have proven to be more conducive to innovation than the thick, "strong" measures the bill requires. Some of our most innovative industries have been built on fair use and other exceptions to copyright—and that's even more obvious now than it was in 2002. The unchanged language suggests the underlying assumption of the drafters is that more IP restrictions mean more innovation and access, and that's an assumption that's plainly false. . . .All in all, we do not see anything in this bill that would truly remedy the secretive, undemocratic process of trade agreements. Therefore, EFF stands alongside the huge coalition public interest groups, professors, lawmakers, and individuals who are opposed to Fast Track legislation that would legitimize the White House's corporate-captured, backroom trade negotiations. The Fast Track bill will likely come to a vote by next week—and stopping it is one sure-fire way to block the passage of these secret, anti-user deals.


https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2015/04/fasttrack-bill-legitimize-white-house-secrecy-and-clear-way-anti-user












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Fast Track Bill Would Legitimize White House Secrecy and Clear the Way for Anti-User Trade Deals (Original Post) Faryn Balyncd Apr 2015 OP
'Chief Transparency Officer' seems pretty 1984ish. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Apr 2015 #1
It certainly is. Faryn Balyncd Apr 2015 #2
I just wish the defenders would choose between "this is good for American workers" and djean111 Apr 2015 #3
What about Paul Krugman who basically says, "Meh."? randome Apr 2015 #5
We have been running that race to the bottom now for a while zeemike Apr 2015 #7
They sure do seem to vacillate between those two memes a lot, don't they? Populist_Prole Apr 2015 #26
Nothing "liberal" about this, dgibby Apr 2015 #35
it's the same group that insists, "Hillary is really liberal", and "of course she's not Doctor_J Apr 2015 #67
I expected better of people who write for a living. randome Apr 2015 #4
It's trying to put in place many ways to bypass what our founders had intended for passing treaties cascadiance Apr 2015 #8
Well said. n/t fasttense Apr 2015 #12
I would vote Punx Apr 2015 #22
Yet you can't state WHY it's a bad bill. randome Apr 2015 #23
W Post: Trans-Pacific Partnership treaty will help neither workers nor consumers Omaha Steve Apr 2015 #47
Do you think Treaties are, or have been, worked out by Congress? ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2015 #27
Or how I learned to stop worrying and love the TPP. zeemike Apr 2015 #10
The negotiations are secret for the same reason the Iran nuclear deal was secret. randome Apr 2015 #20
But that's un-democratic ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2015 #30
Sure. Everything our government does should be put up for a vote. randome Apr 2015 #56
So moved. Is there a second? ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2015 #60
Exactly. If we had told the other 11 parties to the TPP negotiations that our Congress Hoyt Apr 2015 #34
So our congress is the enemy because they might raise issues zeemike Apr 2015 #40
I sometimes think Congress IS the enemy, at least the Conservative part of it. randome Apr 2015 #58
I think you are confused. More Republicans than Democrats are supporting Obama pushing the TPP... cascadiance Apr 2015 #61
So then, why is OK for corporations to have a hand in writing this but LondonReign2 Apr 2015 #42
It isn't okay, from my point of view. randome Apr 2015 #53
And for that matter environmental groups should also be involved too... cascadiance Apr 2015 #62
WE don't get to see it until FOUR years after it is passed!!! Omaha Steve Apr 2015 #11
No, that four year secrecy regards the negotiations that led to the agreement. randome Apr 2015 #16
OOPS your wrong we don't have to listen to you make stuff up anymore Omaha Steve Apr 2015 #46
Thanks for that link Babel_17 Apr 2015 #64
You seem like a rose colored glasses kind of person. lark Apr 2015 #14
'Astronomically' is a big word in terms of meaning. randome Apr 2015 #18
Yeah, tell me how we've benefited by NAFTA? lark Apr 2015 #21
Obama described the TPP as a 're-write' of NAFTA to address those concerns. randome Apr 2015 #24
Described? lark Apr 2015 #25
Exactly. If Congress doesn't like some portion, they just say No, and Obama either Hoyt Apr 2015 #28
True ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2015 #32
I'm really surprised people aren't getting this. It's really depressing and doesn't bode well for Hoyt Apr 2015 #33
Your right ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2015 #36
The Republican party is in favor of universal wage floors, universal working condition protections, Fumesucker Apr 2015 #38
Well ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2015 #39
Yes, and you've "decided" to support the same treaty that Republicans and Corporations support LondonReign2 Apr 2015 #43
Where have I said anything approaching, "I support the TPP"? ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2015 #45
It's going to be like owning a patent Fumesucker Apr 2015 #48
Who said I favored the TPP? 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2015 #49
AFL-CIO: "TPP Job Claims Earn 4 Pinocchios!" : Faryn Balyncd Apr 2015 #41
Question ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2015 #44
When the track record is that of "trade" agreements not delivering on their promises, Faryn Balyncd Apr 2015 #50
Okay. n/t 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2015 #51
when will it be "released to the public for approval"? and how does "the public" go about ND-Dem Apr 2015 #29
The same way we approve or disapprove of anything -through our representatives. randome Apr 2015 #52
i see: when it comes to an up or down vote, that's the first we'll here of this thousands ND-Dem Apr 2015 #65
To Piss on the People. TPP.n/t jtuck004 Apr 2015 #6
It's definitely not a traditional "Toilet Paper Party" cascadiance Apr 2015 #9
There is no real trade reason for Obama to be pushing this ghastly deal fasttense Apr 2015 #13
"Who is he paying back with this?" MissDeeds Apr 2015 #15
That's what I want to know also. liberal_at_heart Apr 2015 #17
Penny Pritzer? n/t dgibby Apr 2015 #37
HUGE K & R !!! - THANK YOU !!! WillyT Apr 2015 #19
Well, at least we can dispense with the BS that the text won't be released to the public. Hoyt Apr 2015 #31
YOU said it...PLEASE post the document for us all to read then Omaha Steve Apr 2015 #54
The TPP document says the NEGOTIATING documents should not be declassified, of course they were. Hoyt Apr 2015 #55
From the USTR Omaha Steve Apr 2015 #59
Huh? Omaha Steve Apr 2015 #57
No offense, but the naysayers are only mostly convincing Babel_17 Apr 2015 #63
K&R n/t OhioChick Apr 2015 #66
K&R woo me with science Apr 2015 #68

Erich Bloodaxe BSN

(14,733 posts)
1. 'Chief Transparency Officer' seems pretty 1984ish.
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 09:59 AM
Apr 2015

Serious doublespeak for an office that, no doubt, is meant to keep things as opaque as possible.

 

djean111

(14,255 posts)
3. I just wish the defenders would choose between "this is good for American workers" and
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 10:37 AM
Apr 2015

"don't you want to have American workers down at the same sad level of poor workers in other countries?".
When this is not about workers at all - except for the gleeful race to the bottom on wages.
This is about corporations over countries. That is all it is about.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
5. What about Paul Krugman who basically says, "Meh."?
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 10:45 AM
Apr 2015

[hr][font color="blue"][center]I'm always right. When I'm wrong I admit it.
So then I'm right about being wrong.
[/center][/font][hr]

Populist_Prole

(5,364 posts)
26. They sure do seem to vacillate between those two memes a lot, don't they?
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 12:51 PM
Apr 2015

In the same order too. Same ivory tower "good liberal" thinking that loves humanity but hate people, especially the working class in this country, whom they see as benighted slobs/rubes.

"Trust me, trust me, trust me....your concerns are groundless"

- Then:

"Fuck you.....nothing can be done about it....fall on the grenade for good of my ivory tower utopia, you lumpen slobs!"

It's not new really.

dgibby

(9,474 posts)
35. Nothing "liberal" about this,
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 01:23 PM
Apr 2015

and it is not supported by liberals. It's supported by the New Democrat Coalition(aka "old Republicans&quot , that bills itself as "centrist" and pro business. The NDC is also in bed with Wall Street.

 

Doctor_J

(36,392 posts)
67. it's the same group that insists, "Hillary is really liberal", and "of course she's not
Sat Apr 18, 2015, 08:26 AM
Apr 2015

liberal. Liberals can't get elected"

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
4. I expected better of people who write for a living.
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 10:44 AM
Apr 2015

'Fast track' does not mean 'rush'. It means an up or down vote. No amendments. If a congressman feels strongly about adding something, then he/she should vote 'No'.

As for secrecy...my God, it isn't going to be secret once it's released to the public for approval!

It's a good thing we have an inexhaustible supply of sky because it seems like it's always falling.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Don't ever underestimate the long-term effects of a good night's sleep.[/center][/font][hr]

 

cascadiance

(19,537 posts)
8. It's trying to put in place many ways to bypass what our founders had intended for passing treaties
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 11:32 AM
Apr 2015

which required super majority votes in favor of such treaties and a lot more visibility and time to work out the details than Fast Track would allow.

NAFTA is an example of what the TPP will do to us that has destroyed American jobs and lead to a huge trade deficit that we hadn't had in this country before it was passed, which ultimately leads to the huge debts we have now that the Republicans use as an excuse to not invest in any thing through government to help make most Americans lives better at a time when they sorely need it!

TPP is about the wealthy and powerful being obsessed with getting more and not knowing when to stop and pushing us all to the brink in the process. Thom Hartmann is so right when he renames this SHAFTA instead.



Anybody who supports Fast Track in my book should be voted out of office. And I include Senator Wyden in that statement, who I now want to see primaried by Pete DeFazio here in Oregon, as much as I like what he's done in other areas in congress. It is really that bad a bill in my book, and is that big a sign of a politician selling out to the powerful elites and surrender his/her mission of serving the people who voted for him that traditionally politicians have had as their responsibility.

Punx

(446 posts)
22. I would vote
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 12:33 PM
Apr 2015

For DeFazio in said Primary without a second thought. Not sure he would run though.

My impression is that Wyden has gotten too cozy with big business.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
23. Yet you can't state WHY it's a bad bill.
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 12:34 PM
Apr 2015

Is it because corporations are involved? Obama describes TPP as a 're-write' of NAFTA, meaning that wage and environmental concerns are 'baked in'. It remains to be seen whether or not that's the case.

Once the treaty is released to Congress for approval, we'll see. Until then, the sky -at least where I am- is still in place.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]The truth doesn’t always set you free.
Sometimes it builds a bigger cage around the one you’re already in.
[/center][/font][hr]

Omaha Steve

(99,577 posts)
47. W Post: Trans-Pacific Partnership treaty will help neither workers nor consumers
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 03:18 PM
Apr 2015

What have you got that says this will be so great?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/trans-pacific-partnership-treaty-will-help-neither-workers-nor-consumers/2015/03/31/145e98ba-d727-11e4-ba28-f2a685dc7f89_story.html


By Katrina vanden Heuvel March 31

“China wants to write the rules for the world’s fastest-growing region … We should write those rules,” President Obama declared in his State of the Union address. To sell Congress on giving him authority to “fast track” consideration of the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP), a trade and investment treaty with 12 nations that has been under negotiation for five years, the president argues it is vital that “we” write the rules. The real question, of course, is what does he mean by “we”?

Our global trade and tax policies have been and still are controlled by corporate and financial interests. They, not workers or consumers, write the rules. In the early post-World War II years, trade treaties were focused on lowering tariffs. In theory at least, workers in both nations might benefit from larger markets and increased trade. But now a significant portion of our trade is intra-corporate trade, an exchange between one branch of a multinational and another. Multinationals have different interests than national companies. They profit even if U.S. workers suffer. Increasingly companies choose to report their profits or ship their jobs to countries with the lowest standards where the legal position of companies is the strongest. Companies like Wal-Mart set up global distribution systems designed to drive down wages here and abroad. The Waltons are the richest family in the world. Their workers are paid so little that they are forced to rely on taxpayer subsidies like Medicaid and food stamps.

One product of the corporate-defined trade rules is that the United States has run unprecedented trade deficits, totaling more than $8 trillion since 2000 alone. Trade deficits cost jobs. Worse, companies have used the threat to move jobs abroad to drive down wages here at home. Our corporate-defined trade policies contribute significantly to the reality that, as Nobel Prize economist Joseph Stiglitz writes, “the real median income of a full time male worker is lower now than it was 40 years ago.”

With tariffs already low, current trade treaties are focused less on tariffs and trade than on “harmonizing regulations” for investors. But these regulations concern worker rights, consumer and environmental protections, economic policies that are the expression of our democracy. Too often, “harmonization” is simply an excuse for corporations to institute a race to the bottom.

FULL story at link.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
27. Do you think Treaties are, or have been, worked out by Congress? ...
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 12:54 PM
Apr 2015
It's trying to put in place many ways to bypass what our founders had intended for passing treaties which required super majority votes in favor of such treaties and a lot more visibility and time to work out the details than Fast Track would allow.


Bad comparison.

zeemike

(18,998 posts)
10. Or how I learned to stop worrying and love the TPP.
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 11:35 AM
Apr 2015

And it is never explained why it needed to be secret in the first place...and the meme that we will learn about it when it is passed.
What kind of fools do they think we are?

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
20. The negotiations are secret for the same reason the Iran nuclear deal was secret.
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 12:31 PM
Apr 2015

You don't let Congress get its paws on something while it is being put together, otherwise they will start carpet-bombing it with 'concerns' such as some wild-assed theory about it supporting abortions or something.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]The truth doesn’t always set you free.
Sometimes it builds a bigger cage around the one you’re already in.
[/center][/font][hr]

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
30. But that's un-democratic ...
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 01:01 PM
Apr 2015

It's not how the founders intended!

Oh, wait ... See: U.S. Constitution.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
56. Sure. Everything our government does should be put up for a vote.
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 04:28 PM
Apr 2015

We need 300 million 'experts' in...well, everything.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]There is nothing you can't do if you put your mind to it.
Nothing.
[/center][/font][hr]

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
60. So moved. Is there a second? ...
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 05:19 PM
Apr 2015

I know this is blasphemy but ...

given the level of competence, and mastery of governance, the 340+ members of Congress have demonstrated thus far, I am not certain I am comfortable with them offering their contributions to highly technical trade agreements.

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
34. Exactly. If we had told the other 11 parties to the TPP negotiations that our Congress
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 01:22 PM
Apr 2015

was going to amend everything from font size, to substantive policy, they would have told us to pound sand and gone to China for leadership.

zeemike

(18,998 posts)
40. So our congress is the enemy because they might raise issues
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 01:47 PM
Apr 2015

Well it seems to me that is why we have three branches of government and separation of powers so that issues can be raised and the debate can happen.
If you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear.
Government in the sunshine is nothing to fear, but it has been framed that way, and this trade deal has nothing to do with our national security but a lot to do with our sovereignty as a nation.

I find it troubling that some Democrats are now supporting secrecy and trade deals that hurt working people they claim to represent...and all in the name of party loyalty.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
58. I sometimes think Congress IS the enemy, at least the Conservative part of it.
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 04:37 PM
Apr 2015

Look how often they've shut down the government and tried to take health insurance from the people.

But so far as treaties go, it's usually the President who negotiates and Congress that ratifies. Fast-track is a separate issue but I think we'd all agree we don't want abortion riders attached to a trade bill, which is what the Conservative faction would try.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Treat your body like a machine. Your mind like a castle.[/center][/font][hr]

 

cascadiance

(19,537 posts)
61. I think you are confused. More Republicans than Democrats are supporting Obama pushing the TPP...
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 05:23 PM
Apr 2015

That is why it is being pushed through congress now when the Republicans who WANT this POS to serve their corporate masters now control the senate where it couldn't have been passed before the beginning of the year when the Democrats controlled it. Or at least it would have been harder buying off Democrats than Republicans.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
53. It isn't okay, from my point of view.
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 03:55 PM
Apr 2015

I don't know if there is any labor representation at all but there should be. You won't get any argument from me about that.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]There is nothing you can't do if you put your mind to it.
Nothing.
[/center][/font][hr]

 

cascadiance

(19,537 posts)
62. And for that matter environmental groups should also be involved too...
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 05:25 PM
Apr 2015

As many environmental laws will be thrown out by these corporate serving tribunals the TPP wants to put in place too.

The reason corporations are brought in and others aren't? Because they can keep this secret when it really just serves them, whereas other groups would give wikileaks, anonymous, and others far more information than they've been able to get now.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
16. No, that four year secrecy regards the negotiations that led to the agreement.
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 12:26 PM
Apr 2015

Not the treaty itself.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]The truth doesn’t always set you free.
Sometimes it builds a bigger cage around the one you’re already in.
[/center][/font][hr]

Omaha Steve

(99,577 posts)
46. OOPS your wrong we don't have to listen to you make stuff up anymore
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 03:14 PM
Apr 2015

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/trans-pacific-partnership-treaty-will-help-neither-workers-nor-consumers/2015/03/31/145e98ba-d727-11e4-ba28-f2a685dc7f89_story.html

Snip: The brutal negotiations of the TPP haven’t been about tariffs but about protections and regulations. Last week, the draft chapter concerning the “Investor-State Dispute Settlement” mechanism was leaked to Wikileaks and the New York Times. Essentially, the chapter allows a company to sue for taxpayer damages if a government (federal, state or local) passes laws or take actions that the company alleges will impinge on future expected profits. The “tribunal” is a panel of lawyers, drawn from a small group of accredited international lawyers who serve both as judges and advocates. If successful the companies can collect millions in damages from governments. The provisions are so shocking that the TPP mandates that the chapter not be declassified until four years after the TPP goes into force or fails to pass.

lark

(23,091 posts)
14. You seem like a rose colored glasses kind of person.
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 12:16 PM
Apr 2015

Up or down vote against increasing the power of the 1% astronomically? That's a horrible thing when Dems and repugs unite to hurt the working class and environment of all the signing countries, including ours. The bottom line is TPP is now most likely law due to Fast Track, no changes can be reasonably made and congress is chock full of corporatists who will definitely vote for this. Other countrys' large corporations will have primary rights over our country's environmental and labor laws, how is that good that we can be sued for paying more to workers than China or Vietnam? We already under NAFTA lost control of our roads and emissions rulings when Mexico won the right to send their totally non-compliant pollution spewing trucks all over the US and we can't stop them.

I don't see any benefit in being an ostrich and ignoring the fire ball hurtling our way.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
18. 'Astronomically' is a big word in terms of meaning.
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 12:29 PM
Apr 2015

The hope for the TPP is that it will level the playing field among all the signatories. The smaller nations will need to 'catch up' to us in terms of safety and wage.

Whether or not that comes to pass is another matter, of course, but the position that anything that is good for trade or corporations must, of necessity, be against everyone else is hyperbole until backed up with facts and figures.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]The truth doesn’t always set you free.
Sometimes it builds a bigger cage around the one you’re already in.
[/center][/font][hr]

lark

(23,091 posts)
21. Yeah, tell me how we've benefited by NAFTA?
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 12:33 PM
Apr 2015

Tell me how the Mexican workers lives have been improved by this? The answer is NOT, and Mexicans wages and std. of living have decreased as have the American workers wages.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
24. Obama described the TPP as a 're-write' of NAFTA to address those concerns.
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 12:36 PM
Apr 2015

Let's hope he keeps to that.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]The truth doesn’t always set you free.
Sometimes it builds a bigger cage around the one you’re already in.
[/center][/font][hr]

lark

(23,091 posts)
25. Described?
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 12:47 PM
Apr 2015

Yes, Obama is 100%, all in with TPP. However, this does ZERO to fix the NAFTA issues, really builds on them and makes them way worse.

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
28. Exactly. If Congress doesn't like some portion, they just say No, and Obama either
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 12:57 PM
Apr 2015

abandons the TPP, or goes back to the other countries to see if they will agree to a change.

I do hope Congress looks at the overall benefits of the agreement -- trade, geopolitical, helping workers worldwide, environmental, etc.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
32. True ...
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 01:09 PM
Apr 2015

I do hope Congress looks at the overall benefits of the agreement -- trade, geopolitical, helping workers worldwide, environmental, etc.


I hope that someone will take a moment to explain to congress (and the American worker) the effect that "baking in" universal wage floors, universal working condition protections, and the right to collective bargaining (not to mention universal environmental protections) into an agreement with signatory nations that currently have none of these, will have on labor arbitrage.
 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
33. I'm really surprised people aren't getting this. It's really depressing and doesn't bode well for
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 01:19 PM
Apr 2015

our future.

Obama, was just on TV and made some comments about the TPP. It made a lot of sense to me, but the folks complaining here aren't gonna listen to reality.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
36. Your right ...
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 01:23 PM
Apr 2015

people won't listen because it's less work to have someone else interpret something and tell you what you should think; than, taking the time to read it (or even summaries of it) after it has been released in its final form.

Fumesucker

(45,851 posts)
38. The Republican party is in favor of universal wage floors, universal working condition protections,
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 01:29 PM
Apr 2015

and the right to collective bargaining ?

Because the Republican leadership at least seems to be on board with the TPP.

I don't trust anything Republicans are in favor of to be of benefit to the average working person.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
39. Well ...
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 01:39 PM
Apr 2015

apparently so; since those are the negotiating objectives that were to be baked into the agreement.

I don't trust anything Republicans are in favor of to be of benefit to the average working person.


That is your prerogative ... I prefer to decide whether to support, or oppose, something; not, based on my trust, or distrust, of someone else.

LondonReign2

(5,213 posts)
43. Yes, and you've "decided" to support the same treaty that Republicans and Corporations support
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 01:55 PM
Apr 2015

and that Liberals and Labor oppose. Well knock me over with a feather...

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
45. Where have I said anything approaching, "I support the TPP"? ...
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 03:04 PM
Apr 2015

Please post a link.

Or, are you equating my refusal to state a position on the agreement until I know what is in the agreement with supporting something that isn't ... yet?

Fumesucker

(45,851 posts)
48. It's going to be like owning a patent
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 03:33 PM
Apr 2015

All a patent does is give you the right to sue someone else at a later date for infringement, if you don't have the money to take a suit to court your patent is worth absolutely nothing.

The corporations will have the wherewithal to take what they want to court under the TPP, the average working person not so much.

What will get thoroughly enforced are the parts of the TPP where the corporations benefit, for the average worker both here and in the other nations the agreement might as well not exist since enforcement of the parts that protect workers will be extremely low on the priority scale, so low as to be underground.

What other Republican favored policies are you also in favor of?

Faryn Balyncd

(5,125 posts)
41. AFL-CIO: "TPP Job Claims Earn 4 Pinocchios!" :
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 01:49 PM
Apr 2015





TPP Job Claims Earn 4 Pinocchios!





U.S. workers should beware of promises that the proposed Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) will create jobs. When evaluating the recent Obama administration claim that the TPP will create 650,000 jobs, the Washington Post’s Fact Checker gave it the lowest possible rating of Four Pinocchios—aka “Whopper.” Fact Checker editor Glenn Kessler wrote:

Be wary whenever a politician claims a policy will yield bountiful jobs. In this case, the correct number is zero, not 650,000, according to the very study used to calculate this number. Administration officials earn Four Pinocchios for their fishy math.

We agree. After asking the administration for more than four years for information on expected jobs gains from the TPP—by industry and geography—we have still not received any information. Given the job performance of prior so-called “free trade agreements” (FTAs) such as the North American Free Trade Agreement (nearly 700,000 jobs lost) and the U.S.-Korea FTA (60,000 jobs lost), we view any promises about trade and job creation with extreme skepticism. And so should we all.

Read the complete article here.


http://www.aflcio.org/Blog/Political-Action-Legislation/TPP-Job-Claims-Earn-4-Pinocchios







Here's more from the AFL-CIO YouTube Channel:









And more:







AFL-CIO: Tell Congress Fast Track Is a Bad Deal


04/02/2015





When Congress returns from its Easter/Passover recess, it will continue its debate on Fast Track trade authority for the Trans-Pacific Partnership and try to rush it to a vote as soon as possible. That’s why your lawmakers need to hear from you that Fast Track is a mistake we can’t afford to make. . . . . . . Click here to contact your representatives now and tell them to stand up for workers and democracy by opposing Fast Track when it comes to a congressional vote.

Fast Track is an extreme deal written by the big banks and big corporations. Wall Street says that Fast Track and bad trade deals will create jobs and that we don’t want China to write the rules. But allowing closed-door negotiations of trade deals that affect real working people like you and me rigs the rules for global corporations and leaves us behind. It is a mistake that we can’t afford to make again. . . . . . . . . Fast Track and the bad trade deals that will follow won’t create American jobs. When trade deals are fast tracked, jobs go overseas, increased safety measures go out the window and workers’ wages go down. And that can’t happen--because America's workers support trade, too.

It’s time for Congress to put working families first. Working families deserve a trade policy that encourages an open-door, democratic process available to all, not just the 1%.

Also you can sign the AFL-CIO's Fast Track petition.


















 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
44. Question ...
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 03:01 PM
Apr 2015

how can one, accurately/honestly rate something that hasn't been said (agreed to)?

These analysis were done on the leaked memos, i.e., draft language, of negotiating positions ... IOWs, drafts of negotiating points ... which is NOT the agreement.

Faryn Balyncd

(5,125 posts)
50. When the track record is that of "trade" agreements not delivering on their promises,
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 03:47 PM
Apr 2015


the burden of proof rests with those promoting such agreements, not with those defending democratic process & Congressional authority.


It is somewhat disingenuous for such an agreement to be peddled to Congress by first asking Congress to give up, in advance, their constitutional authority (by removing the leverage Congress constitutionally possesses by virtue of Congress's power not only to approve or disapprove, but to amend with the threat of filibuster), not only for the TPP, not only for the TTIP, but also for any other "trade" agreement that might be proposed by whoever may be president for the next 6 years.

And it is disingenuous to expect those who oppose such surrender of Congressional authority to bear the burden of proving why a future agreement should be rejected, and to imply that if they cannot prove the case against any and all future "deals" 6 years in advance of whatever might be proposed, that the defenders of democratic process should be expected to approve, in advance, a process that not only surrenders Congressional authority for present and future "trade" agreements, but enacts a process that requires a supermajority to remove a future "trade" agreement from the Fast Track process.










 

ND-Dem

(4,571 posts)
29. when will it be "released to the public for approval"? and how does "the public" go about
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 12:59 PM
Apr 2015

approving or disapproving it in any way that actually affects the outcome?

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
52. The same way we approve or disapprove of anything -through our representatives.
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 03:50 PM
Apr 2015

I have no idea when the final draft comes out.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Birds are territorial creatures.
The lyrics to the songbird's melodious trill go something like this:
"Stay out of my territory or I'll PECK YOUR GODDAMNED EYES OUT!"
[/center][/font][hr]

 

ND-Dem

(4,571 posts)
65. i see: when it comes to an up or down vote, that's the first we'll here of this thousands
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 08:48 PM
Apr 2015

of pages & chapters document.

well, that's very helpful, I'm sure.

Love that "New Democracy"

 

cascadiance

(19,537 posts)
9. It's definitely not a traditional "Toilet Paper Party"
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 11:35 AM
Apr 2015

That kids in college love to engage in at some times...

 

fasttense

(17,301 posts)
13. There is no real trade reason for Obama to be pushing this ghastly deal
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 12:06 PM
Apr 2015

So, who is he paying back with this awful nightmare of a treaty?

Clinton is blamed for NAFTA and now Obama wants the blame for this monster.

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
31. Well, at least we can dispense with the BS that the text won't be released to the public.
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 01:03 PM
Apr 2015

Of course, the documents available to date -- not the final document that has to be approved by Obama, then Congress -- have already been released, despite people continuing to say it's "secret."

Omaha Steve

(99,577 posts)
54. YOU said it...PLEASE post the document for us all to read then
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 04:13 PM
Apr 2015

Wikileaks has been the only source for a chaspter. The white house didn't comment on that BTW.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/trans-pacific-partnership-treaty-will-help-neither-workers-nor-consumers/2015/03/31/145e98ba-d727-11e4-ba28-f2a685dc7f89_story.html

The provisions are so shocking that the TPP mandates that the chapter not be declassified until four years after the TPP goes into force or fails to pass.

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
55. The TPP document says the NEGOTIATING documents should not be declassified, of course they were.
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 04:27 PM
Apr 2015

The negotiating documents include comments by the countries about what they have to have, what they might be willing to give up, various instances of whining, etc.

The 4 years does not apply to any FINAL document that might be endorsed by Obama.

You can search for these negotiating documents easily, type in things like "TPP investment dispute chapter," TPP Intellectual Property Chapter, TPP patent Chapter, etc.

It's all there.

You can also go to the USTR site and read the goals and advisory committee listings, that include almost every major union and environmental organizations.

I would also suggest looking for articles by normally liberal writers like Ezra Klein and Jeff Spross. There's a good interview where Obama lays out his objectives to matt yglesias.

Here's a recent article where Democratic Congress members who support the TPP (in principle) are discussed, along with opposition -- http://www.politico.com/story/2015/04/democrats-free-trade-bill-117066.html

Here's one that discusses the modification a Congressional committee is suggesting to so-called Fast-Track authority -- http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/17/business/obama-trade-legislation-fast-track-authority-trans-pacific-partnership.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=first-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news

Omaha Steve

(99,577 posts)
59. From the USTR
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 04:46 PM
Apr 2015

https://ustr.gov/issue-areas/labor (copyright exempt)

Labor
Protecting labor rights is a core priority of President Obama’s trade agenda, and the Office of the United States Trade Representative (USTR) is at the forefront of the Administration’s efforts to improve labor laws and working conditions with trading partners in virtually every region of the globe. The Obama Administration is committed to using the full range of tools that are available – whether under trade agreements, trade preference programs, or through multilateral fora – to protect the rights of workers around the globe. These efforts have helped to level the playing field for American workers and businesses by building strong and enforceable labor standards.

Negotiating high labor standards in trade agreements: USTR is leading the Obama Administration’s efforts to negotiate the strongest labor protections ever negotiated in trade agreements anywhere in the world. USTR’s approach in the Trans-Pacific Partnership and Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership not only incorporates commitments to adopt and maintain fundamental labor rights, as recognized by the International Labor Organization, and to effectively enforce labor laws, but also includes first-ever commitments on forced labor and acceptable conditions of work.

Securing labor rights through monitoring and enforcement of trade agreements: USTR’s Labor Office monitors adherence to labor rights provisions of existing bilateral and regional trade agreements and holds countries accountable for upholding their labor commitments. Learn more about USTR's monitoring and enforcement actions, here.

Public submission process under trade agreements: USTR works with the Department of Labor to review public submissions filed under free trade agreements and to engage governments in an effort to address concerns raised through the submission process. Learn more about the submission process and current submissions, here.

Upholding worker rights in trade preference program countries USTR monitors and enforces countries’ adherence to worker rights criteria under trade preference programs, including Generalized System of Preference (GSP), African Growth and Opportunity Act (AGOA), Caribbean Basin Initiative (CBI), and Haiti HOPE.

Promoting Trade and Labor around the Globe: Leading the effort to develop positions and build international consensus on trade and labor issues in regional and bilateral and multilateral fora. Read more about the fundamental labor rights of the International Labor Organization (ILO), here.

Promoting Public Participation: Alongside the U.S. Department of Labor, USTR co-chairs the Labor Advisory Committee for Trade Negotiations and Trade Policy (LAC). The LAC is comprised of members of the U.S. labor community and advises, consults with, and makes recommendations to the United States Trade Representative and the Secretary of Labor, on general trade and labor policy matters, including the negotiation and implementation of trade agreements.

From Labor: The A.F.L.-C.I.O., on the Trans-Pacific Partnership APRIL 13, 2015

To the Editor:

Roger C. Altman and Richard N. Haass (“Why the Asian Trade Deal Matters,” Op-Ed, April 4) express confidence that the inclusion of international labor rights protections will adequately protect workers in the proposed Trans-Pacific Partnership. But despite good-faith attempts to strengthen labor protections, the sad truth is that these provisions have been ineffective and intolerably slow at addressing even the most egregious infractions.

Ignoring a raging controversy about proposed new investor rights, Mr. Altman and Mr. Haass inexplicably state that nothing in the accord “would affect existing environmental dispute-resolution mechanisms.” According to the WikiLeaks version of the classified draft TPP investment chapter, this is not the case.

The writers also say the International Monetary Fund “should remain the venue for challenging” suspected currency manipulation. But the I.M.F. has utterly failed to exercise any effective authority in this area. And it is small consolation that China, “widely seen as the main culprit,” is not currently part of the TPP. China may join at a future date.

A broad and unprecedented coalition — of labor, environmental, consumer, public health, small business, family farm and human rights organizations — has raised serious concerns about the trade accord. The writers’ blithe dismissal of these critics does not accord with the actual provisions under consideration and betrays a misreading of history.

THEA LEE

Deputy Chief of Staff, A.F.L.-C.I.O.

Washington

Babel_17

(5,400 posts)
63. No offense, but the naysayers are only mostly convincing
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 06:35 PM
Apr 2015

However, when I see who is backing this, and how they are framing it, well, that's the final piece to the puzzle. A deal for the elites, by the elites, and reverberating of past sell outs, is what seems to be Today's Special.
If this deal offered a fraction of what was advertised then I'd see prominent progressives lining up to support it, wholeheartedly. They aren't, and if they aren't getting convinced, then I'm not giving up on my rightfully earned skepticism of another deal hungered for by the insatiable 1%.

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