General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWhen you're free to be who you are, you're also free to be who you want to be...
But if you're just "normal", that's pretty much all that you can ever look forward to.
Proud Liberal Dem
(24,399 posts)where did it come from?
MrScorpio
(73,630 posts)You can quote me on that
patrice
(47,992 posts)Pretend to be, that is, and then punish others who refuse to pretend too.
All of us need to be more honest with ourselves and others about the deals that we've made. There's a balance that is necessary and money doesn't necessarily even help establish what that balance is. In fact, money, more often than not, appears to mitigate against that balance between who one authentically is compared to who one is for others.
MrScorpio
(73,630 posts)When usually what they're really doing is buying someone else's ideal.
That's pretty much why I was never into name brands and things that are more expensive than what they're worth. This is also why I would never want to live in some rich, gated community.
Also, there is always a certain amount of conformity in "counterculture". Some mistake non-cooperation with non-conformity. Even the outsiders can create other outsiders.
My artist background has taught me that, for me to be unique, I have to create my own ideal instead of grafting on to someone else's. I choose to cooperate or not cooperate, because the key component is choice.
When you have that, then there's no need to punish others for being free in who they really are.
patrice
(47,992 posts)high school (Catholic schools, I got a good education, but all of my family was raised to put family first, so I was pretty much an outsider socially).
I was listening to someone in our Occupy recently puzzling over how one/we are to be around other kinds of groups without "sending" the message that you are the same as they are (worry, worry, worry about being co-opted all of the time). Maybe just because I'm older, I'm puzzled by those who are puzzled by that. Self awareness is a hard thing to explain.
LIKE very much what you said, "... Also, there is always a certain amount of conformity in "counterculture". Some mistake non-cooperation with non-conformity. Even the outsiders can create other outsiders" ... instead of those outsiders creating themselves. I noticed that stuff back in the '60s when you had to look and act a certain way or you weren't "a hippy" and anyone who did look and act like the pattern was considered to be "a hippy", whether they were actually counter-culture or not. It was a fashion statement for a lot of people, not a way of life. Our mistake.
My daughter, who is an independent graphic artist, currently working in independent film production, also taught me much more about the stuff that I was already trying to figure out from my experiences when I was her age. There's something in it about actually being alive all of the time, instead of being on autopilot.
You, MrScorpio, !
MrScorpio
(73,630 posts)It was again, the artist in me that recognized that the movement had a fatal flaw that it chose not to contend with.
For me, successful art... truly excellent art is that which extends the artist's own realm of reality from his/her self to his/her audience. What an artist seeks to do in his/her audience is evoke a reaction that says, "I see where you're coming from." There's a second part which I'll explain in just a moment.
Art itself is a message, a form of communication. The artist is the sender, the audience is the receiver and a successful level of feedback is the indication that the audience understands what the artist's message is.
Now this is why I'm not the biggest fan of self-indulgent, abstract art. Art where the message itself is practically unintelligible. Because this is the message I'm getting when I'm looking at some miss mash of disconnected shapes and images, "This smarmy bastard is trying to fuck with us".
It's one thing to synthesize audience recognition through an odd or non-traditional perspective
Like replacing the head of a painted mannikin with a TV to express the soul-deadening effect that commercialized culture has on individuality
Or whatever. But it's another thing, completely, to crap in a bowl and call it great art.
No. What you have here is crap in a bowl.
Sorry, but I'm not buying that shit.
Now, in a way, I looked at Occupy as the modern art masterpiece edition of a political movements. By not caring if they could evoke the sense of perspective and, consequently a more sympathetic reaction and sustained political response out of
Yeah, the freaking 99%, they were going to drive straight into a wall of non-communicative misunderstanding about what the end result should be. The worse thing is that they prided themselves on not having a freaking endgame.
Without the endgame, what is your purpose? Where are you coming from? Why are you trying to extend this perspective of yours without connecting it me, in where I know what I'm supposed to do with it?
But, wait a second here...
What is it actually saying?
Where is the inspiration for more understanding of great truths?
How is this crap supposed to inspire me to make my next move?
I have no freaking idea what this is all about and don't tell me, that if I don't get the message, that I'm not capable of understanding what you're trying to say.
No, motherfucker, you don't even know what message that you're trying to say and I'm not buying your bullshit.
Not a good reaction.
This is why I think that artists are engaging in self-indulgent bullshit when they splash paint on a wall and expect the viewer to come up with the meaning of all that freaking paint up on a wall. Dude, he's playing you all for suckers. It's like trying get paid for crapping in a bowl.
Now, I will say that I don't think that Occupy was trying to play everyone for suckers (and no, it wasn't crap in a bowl). However, there is no mistaking the fact that it did start in New York. Now I love New York, it's a great town with great people. But I also know that New York is full of people who expect everyone else to know what the fuck they're talking about, even when they themselves don't understand what the fuck they're saying. You're supposed to know, if you don't, then you must be an idiot.
That's how the Coasts turn off the flyover parts of the country, by the way.
It's also why that this is the exact same reason that you can show a Norman Rockwell painting anywhere in the country and everyone knows what it's about, but you can't expect the same universal reaction from a Jackson Pollock painting.
That's because the people who look at Jackson Pollock and see nothing more than a melange of paint drips, well those people are going to think that someone is trying to fuck with them. And if you're trying to relay a successful message in your art, you can't make your audience think that you're trying to fuck with them.
You want your audience to feel as if you are, as the artist, extending your own range of perspective into the viewer's own range. You want your audience to feel as if they are in your shoes Because the audience needs to know where those shoes are taking them. If all you're going to do is sit in place and not go anywhere, to not know what to do next, then why the fuck are we all supposed to be protesting in the first place?
They (Occupy) refused to become overtly and actively political and translate that desire to change the status quo into determined, sustained and transformative action. By not changing the way the game is played and the players of the game, they were setting themselves up for failure. You can't just throw paint up against a wall and hope that everyone can understand what it means. You have to tell them what you're trying to say.
The real purpose of art is to get people to understand what their role is in the greater universe. To know that one has individual worth. That individuals can chose to work together for a common goal that betters themselves and the world around them. Art is supposed to be the basis of meaning, it is the path and the destination.
If you don't know where you're going, then why the hell are you going there?
By the way, I'm so very happy to hear that your daughter is an artist. I think that the artist is most important person in humanity. All artistic expression is the meaning of who we all are and what we're meant to be. Your daughter, as an artist, has a sacred role in the expression of humanity.
Manifestor_of_Light
(21,046 posts)I don't think that's too much to ask, if they do have a message they want to communicate.
MrScorpio
(73,630 posts)That when it looks like they're not trying to say something coherent, then there's a good chance that they're probably not even aware themselves of what they're trying to say.
I'm not a big fan of intentionally discordant art.
I've got a clue as to what mechanism is being employed. Think back to the old fable about the Emperor's New Clothes. But, instead of it being the King's tailor who's trying to fool the King into wearing "invisible" clothes, it would be as if the King himself is fully aware that he's walking around naked and is trying to fool his subjects into believing his own bullshit.
(That would be a great definition of the Art of Politics too)
Artists who try to pull off this kind of stuff are hoping that they're fooling their viewers into believing that some great message is being said in the art, when it's really not. They're trying to appeal to suckers with money who think that they're smarter than what they actually are.
By the way, this is a great time for me to point out that I think that Art Critics are usually full of shit themselves (And useless pieces of animated skin), especially when they're responsible for promoting intentionally discordant bullshit art on the masses.
Manifestor_of_Light
(21,046 posts)I read some very good observations in Art in America.
In a recent issue about giant installations in giant galleries, somebody related that to the insistence that we be continually entertained by blockbuster movies with giant explosions and such. We have short attention spans and every new experience must be incredible.
I thought that was a great observation.
"The rise of giant art has exactly been timed with the rise of Wall Street." -- Rem Koolhaas