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arely staircase

(12,482 posts)
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 10:26 AM Apr 2015

abortion SHOULD be rare

For the same reason dental fillings and teeth pulling should be rare not because there is any shame to it but because it is an invasive procedure that can usually be avoided through proper knowledge and application of said knowledge.

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abortion SHOULD be rare (Original Post) arely staircase Apr 2015 OP
Contraception reduces the risk of needing an abortion. MineralMan Apr 2015 #1
contraception and genuine sex education arely staircase Apr 2015 #30
Yes, exactly. MineralMan Apr 2015 #38
Rare is relative. There should be exactly as many abortions as are needed. PeaceNikki Apr 2015 #2
as many as are needed is directly proportional to the level of knowledge people have and their arely staircase Apr 2015 #3
How many dentist offices are there per state right now? PeaceNikki Apr 2015 #4
How many dentists have their lives threatened?!? That's the other part of safe people forget. bettyellen Apr 2015 #17
maybe HRC, Ted Kennedy and Ann Richards never heard about viloence against abortion providers arely staircase Apr 2015 #31
Maybe you haven't heard that the phrase was removed from the party platform. PeaceNikki Apr 2015 #32
This this and THIS. Context people, it matters. It's not the 70's anymore! bettyellen Apr 2015 #44
if you don't like it , don't say it. but like HRC, AWR and Ted K, I think it is just fine. nt arely staircase Apr 2015 #68
How about this... you and others can continue to use it, and I'll continue to point out how it's PeaceNikki Apr 2015 #71
please continue, governor. nt arely staircase Apr 2015 #73
Oh, I will. You won't shut me up about it. PeaceNikki Apr 2015 #75
Abortion is safer than carrying a baby- there is no reason for "rare" unless you're being judgey. bettyellen Apr 2015 #46
While it is true that abortion is safer than carrying to term, missingthebigdog Apr 2015 #52
Focusing on abortion rights will also get us broader availability of contraception too.... bettyellen Apr 2015 #60
exactly! m-lekktor Apr 2015 #62
That's not connected to the broader idea of using birth control treestar Apr 2015 #54
+1 PeaceNikki!! jen63 Apr 2015 #8
THIS cali Apr 2015 #28
+1 gollygee Apr 2015 #39
As are WANTED, needed and/or everything in between. Heidi Apr 2015 #40
Agree. From the text I posted "if a woman decides she needs an abortion, then she does" PeaceNikki Apr 2015 #41
As always, PeaceNikki, Heidi Apr 2015 #64
You, too. PeaceNikki Apr 2015 #66
"Rare" Puglover Apr 2015 #55
!!! Heidi Apr 2015 #63
^THIS^ PeaceNikki gets it! beam me up scottie Apr 2015 #61
YOU GO GIRL!!! I am on your side!!!!!!!!!!! onecent Apr 2015 #76
"Rare" is an unfortunate weasel word used by some Democratic politicians bullwinkle428 Apr 2015 #5
It's OK to let politicians make abortion inaccessible as long as we focus on contraception. PeaceNikki Apr 2015 #6
It is certainly not my message arely staircase Apr 2015 #9
Ann Richards was no weasle on womens' reproductive rights and she said it all the time arely staircase Apr 2015 #7
I believe she is totally solid on choice, but she needs to drop the antiquated phrase. PeaceNikki Apr 2015 #10
oh I agree about the jeopardy of rights part arely staircase Apr 2015 #11
It's not "slamming". It's a serious and real discussion. PeaceNikki Apr 2015 #12
forgive me if I wasn't being clear arely staircase Apr 2015 #13
But... PeaceNikki Apr 2015 #14
and now you are stuck in arely staircase Apr 2015 #15
No, I'm stuck on the fact that you still fail to see it as a legitimate concern. PeaceNikki Apr 2015 #16
No. I do not think that anyone wanting abortion to be 'safe, legal and rare' is a concern arely staircase Apr 2015 #22
The video that started this debate was from 2009 csziggy Apr 2015 #53
this debate has been going on for years PeaceNikki Apr 2015 #57
But this recent set of discussions is based on a years old video csziggy Apr 2015 #58
This isn't just about that video and Hillary. PeaceNikki Apr 2015 #59
What exactly does that mean? onecaliberal Apr 2015 #18
it is a woman's business and it is all of our business to see that our schools educate girls and boy arely staircase Apr 2015 #33
Six out of ten abortions are performed on women who are already mothers. PeaceNikki Apr 2015 #34
so? women with kids can't be ignorant? arely staircase Apr 2015 #37
What does douching jen63 Apr 2015 #48
That word is just not necessary to the discussion. onecaliberal Apr 2015 #45
As are WANTED. Heidi Apr 2015 #42
^^^^That^^^^ onecaliberal Apr 2015 #47
and because saying it should be rare is good politics. mr_liberal Apr 2015 #19
Yep. Ted Kennedy was right about this. Nye Bevan Apr 2015 #20
Reason. Thanks, rarely. n/t freshwest Apr 2015 #21
I can't believe anyone (pro-choice)would see that as a controversial statement. arely staircase Apr 2015 #24
The negativity is media induced. Sad, but after a while it takes its toll. n/t freshwest Apr 2015 #29
Agree. n/t lumberjack_jeff Apr 2015 #51
Anti-sex attitudes actually increase unwanted pregnancies because contraception is seen as shameful. Oneironaut Apr 2015 #23
yep. the 'ignorance is strength' fundie wing of the GOP has probably caused more abortions arely staircase Apr 2015 #25
hope you're haopy then. it's fucking rarer by the day. cali Apr 2015 #26
anti choicers don't want abortion to be 'safe, legal and rare" arely staircase Apr 2015 #35
Framing counts: Abortion should be ACCESSIBLE AND AFFORDABLE cali Apr 2015 #49
I disagree nt arely staircase Apr 2015 #74
of course you do cali Apr 2015 #78
We all know this to be the case. William769 Apr 2015 #27
Of course it should AgingAmerican Apr 2015 #36
When kids are given Abstinence Only sex ed that Ain't Happening. alphafemale Apr 2015 #43
hate putting qualifiers with basic rights imagine if it was the 2nd amendment dembotoz Apr 2015 #50
"Firing a gun in self-defense should be legal and rare". Nye Bevan Apr 2015 #56
sounds good to me nt arely staircase Apr 2015 #69
You're not helping. Feron Apr 2015 #65
Well said- rare does stigmatize the procedure. And that is wrong. bettyellen Apr 2015 #67
betty, I disagree arely staircase Apr 2015 #72
I understand but abortion is already becoming rare and it's not a good thing at all for the bettyellen Apr 2015 #79
Like the Big Dog said KamaAina Apr 2015 #70
If abortion had been rare locks Apr 2015 #77

MineralMan

(146,288 posts)
1. Contraception reduces the risk of needing an abortion.
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 10:28 AM
Apr 2015

That's a fact. If everyone used effective contraception who wanted to avoid pregnancy, the abortion rate would drop to near zero. Abortion would be rare. It's really, really simple. The right-wing wants to make contraception difficult, which says much about their concept of women. It's ugly.

arely staircase

(12,482 posts)
30. contraception and genuine sex education
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 01:02 PM
Apr 2015

Not the bs abstinence classes in many Texas districts. In my district they call it 'abstinence plus' . This means they teach about contraception, but mainly to tell the students it doesn't work and the only safe sex is no sex. By that logic I am practicing safe down hill skiing by laying here on my couch and abstaining from it.

PeaceNikki

(27,985 posts)
2. Rare is relative. There should be exactly as many abortions as are needed.
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 10:30 AM
Apr 2015

Saying it should be "rare" indicates - clearly - that it is happening more than it should be and that there are 'good' and 'bad' abortions. Abortion is one of the most stigmatized events of a woman's life and the widespread "rare" mantra propagates that.

Calling for it to be "rare" proposes that there is something wrong with abortion. It places the procedure as a very different type of health care. One in which the goal is reduced use rather than expanded access and enhanced quality. And this has contributed to the significant decline in the number of locations where abortions are performed in the United States. The result is also fewer physicians - good physicians - who are even taught abortion care. Less than half of all OB/GYN's residency programs offer training in abortion care.

Saying it should be rare legitimizes efforts to restrict access to abortion.


here is a good piece summarizing my feelings on this matter: http://www.rhrealitycheck.org/blog/2010/04/26/safe-legal-rare-another-perspective

A common narrative in the political and cultural discussions of reproductive health focuses on reducing the number of abortions taking place every year. It’s supposed to be one thing that those who support abortion rights and those who oppose abortion can agree on, the so-called common ground. The assumption is that we can all agree that abortion itself is a bad thing, perhaps necessary, but definitely not a good thing. Even President Clinton declared (and many others have embraced) that abortion should be safe, legal and rare. According to the Guttmacher Institute, almost half of all pregnancies among American women in 2005 were unplanned or unintended. And of those, four in 10 ended in abortion. (http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/fb_induced_abortion.html#1) In other words, between one-fifth and one-quarter of all pregnancies ended in abortion. Without any other information, those statistics can sound scary and paint a picture of women as irresponsible or poor decision-makers. Therefore reducing the number of abortions is a goal that reproductive health, rights and justice activists should work toward, right?

Wrong. Those numbers mean nothing without context. If the 1.21 million abortions that took place in 2005 (http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/fb_induced_abortion.html#1) represent the number of women who needed abortions (and in my opinion, if a woman decides she needs an abortion, then she does), as well as the many women who chose to terminate pregnancies that they very much wanted but could not afford to carry to term, then that number is too high. The work of reducing the number of abortions, therefore, would entail creating an authentically family-friendly society, where women would have the support they need to raise their families, whatever forms they took. That could include eliminating the family caps in TANF, encouraging unionization of low-wage workers, reforming immigration policies and making vocational and higher education more accessible.

On the other hand, if those 1.21 million abortions represent only the women who could access abortion financially, geographically or otherwise, then that number is too low. Yes, too low. If that’s the case, then what is an appropriate response? How do we best support women and their reproductive health? Do we dare admit that increasing the number of abortions might be not only good for women’s health, but also moral and just?

What if we stopped focusing on the number of abortions and instead focused on the women themselves? Much of the work of the reproductive health, rights and justice movements would remain the same. We would still advocate for legislation that helps our families. We would still fight to protect abortion providers and their staffs from verbal harassment and physical violence. What would change, however, is the stigma and shame. By focusing on supporting women’s agency and self-determination, rather than judging the outcomes of that agency, we send a powerful message. We say that we trust women. We say we will not use them and their experiences as pawns in a political game. We say we care about women and want them to have access to all the information, services and resources necessary to make the best decisions they can for themselves and their families. That is at the core of reproductive justice. Not reducing the number of abortions. Safe – yes. Legal– absolutely. Rare – not the point.


This comparison to cardiac or dental procedures is crazy, IMHO.

If there were well funded and hugely successful efforts limiting access to other procedures and preventative care, sweeping legislation being passed to stop them, protesting and bombing clinics and hospitals, killing surgeons, etc, then maybe.

Aso, it's not typical that a cardiac patient is judged by society for their personal history behind the surgery. They should have exercised, eaten better, oh, it is a genetic abnormality... We are only glad that the procedures exist to help those who need it. I feel the same way about abortion.

It's OK to wish that those procedures weren't needed, but to publicly wish them to be "rare" in the midst of significant and major attacks on access being imposed on them and clinics closing at record pace with some states bring limited to a single facility is, frankly, insane.

arely staircase

(12,482 posts)
3. as many as are needed is directly proportional to the level of knowledge people have and their
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 10:35 AM
Apr 2015

willingness to use it. Safe sex should be taught just as proper dental hygiene should be taught - thus making cavities and unwanted pregnancies less common.

PeaceNikki

(27,985 posts)
4. How many dentist offices are there per state right now?
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 10:37 AM
Apr 2015

How many bills have been passed trying to stop root canals in the past decade? How many orthodontists offices have been bombed? Oral surgeons killed?

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
17. How many dentists have their lives threatened?!? That's the other part of safe people forget.
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 11:22 AM
Apr 2015

Great post Nikki. Thank you.

arely staircase

(12,482 posts)
31. maybe HRC, Ted Kennedy and Ann Richards never heard about viloence against abortion providers
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 01:08 PM
Apr 2015

and that is why they say/said such outrageous things like 'abortion should be safe, legal and rare.' Or maybe, the disparity in violence against dentists and against abortion providers in no way whatsoever negates the fact that both provide services that are legit medical procedure that should be safe, legal and rare.

PeaceNikki

(27,985 posts)
32. Maybe you haven't heard that the phrase was removed from the party platform.
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 01:15 PM
Apr 2015

Or that two thirds of the people you mentioned died a decade or so ago and, as such, are not aware of the sweeping legislation which has made it inaccessible to millions of women or that women are being jailed for suspicious miscarriages.

It was coined a generation and a half ago. Things have changed in regards to abortion access and rights. and not for the better. We need to change and take this issue back fill force, head on, own it and change the narrative.

PeaceNikki

(27,985 posts)
71. How about this... you and others can continue to use it, and I'll continue to point out how it's
Wed Apr 22, 2015, 05:27 PM
Apr 2015

harmful, antiquated and was removed from the platform, and you can put your fingers in your ears and ignore me. Deal?

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
46. Abortion is safer than carrying a baby- there is no reason for "rare" unless you're being judgey.
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 02:51 PM
Apr 2015

And that is the trap we've walked into.

missingthebigdog

(1,233 posts)
52. While it is true that abortion is safer than carrying to term,
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 03:51 PM
Apr 2015

Not getting pregnant in the first place is safer than either.

The options are not have an abortion or have a baby. The options are use safe, effective, birth control; have an abortion; or have a baby.

Those of us who believe abortion should be rare are not making a moral judgment. Abortion is an invasive medical procedure that would be rendered almost completely unnecessary by proper education and access to contraceptives.

Focusing solely on abortion rights instead of a broader approach which encompasses all reproductive rights does a disservice to women and continues to divide people who should all be on the same side.

There are ALWAYS going to be times when abortion is necessary. Even very reliable contraception sometimes fails, and human nature is such that unprotected sex is going to happen. Sometimes, people decide they are ready for a child, then change their minds.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
60. Focusing on abortion rights will also get us broader availability of contraception too....
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 05:53 PM
Apr 2015

Increased availability of contraception will follow naturally. That is a given. Not sure why it's anyone's concern that it wouldn't. It saves money and would be available in all the same outlets.

But if we keep giving abortion the stink eye, we will never get there.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
54. That's not connected to the broader idea of using birth control
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 03:57 PM
Apr 2015

rather than abortion, or teeth cleaning rather than cavities. Though conservatives are against birth control too, so that opening does not mean a lot to many of them.

But it could be convincing to a lot of people - drop your opposition to it and focus on birth control, and abortion will be rare. Problem is right wingers are too fanatical to do that. The ones who want abstinence won't go for it.

gollygee

(22,336 posts)
39. +1
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 02:01 PM
Apr 2015

We need abortions to be more easily accessible, not rare. The use of the word "rare" is just another way to make women who have abortions feel shame for their valid choice.

Heidi

(58,237 posts)
40. As are WANTED, needed and/or everything in between.
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 02:14 PM
Apr 2015

To be clear to those who seek to limit my medical choices (and I know you're not among them, PeaceNikki): It's between each woman and her doctor, whether wanted or needed. And I think the whole "rare" thing is a bunch of judgey horseshit.

Heidi

(58,237 posts)
64. As always, PeaceNikki,
Mon Apr 20, 2015, 07:55 AM
Apr 2015

you are spot on. and good morning from CMW, The Wiley and Excellent Boy Cat Named Ginger, and me!

bullwinkle428

(20,629 posts)
5. "Rare" is an unfortunate weasel word used by some Democratic politicians
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 10:42 AM
Apr 2015

in an effort to stake some kind of compromise position. It has the effect allowing Republicans a foot in the door to attempt to ram through all kinds of restrictive legislation which they've been doing with zeal on a state level.

PeaceNikki

(27,985 posts)
6. It's OK to let politicians make abortion inaccessible as long as we focus on contraception.
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 10:45 AM
Apr 2015

That's the message and it's bullshit.

arely staircase

(12,482 posts)
9. It is certainly not my message
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 10:46 AM
Apr 2015

All invasive procedures should be made as rare as possible through prevention. That isn't bullshit
it is common sense.

arely staircase

(12,482 posts)
7. Ann Richards was no weasle on womens' reproductive rights and she said it all the time
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 10:45 AM
Apr 2015

and implying that HRC isn't solid on choice is just goofy.

PeaceNikki

(27,985 posts)
10. I believe she is totally solid on choice, but she needs to drop the antiquated phrase.
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 10:47 AM
Apr 2015

The party platform did years ago. The climate is different, our rights and access are in serious jeopardy.

arely staircase

(12,482 posts)
11. oh I agree about the jeopardy of rights part
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 10:51 AM
Apr 2015

but those rights will be best protected by electing the person who shares our values on the subject, not by slamming that very person for her choice of words.

PeaceNikki

(27,985 posts)
12. It's not "slamming". It's a serious and real discussion.
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 10:54 AM
Apr 2015

And it's not about hating Hillary or making look bad. Hell, I *have* voted for HRC and I will again.

As a supporter, I would very much like her to drop the antiquated phrase which was removed from the party platform years ago, with good reason.

I think that you're projecting your defensiveness of her on me. I get it, it's rough here during the primaries, but this is important to some of us. I've taken 2 female Democratic gubernatorial candidates to task face to face for using this phrase and I would with Hillary as well.


PeaceNikki

(27,985 posts)
14. But...
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 10:59 AM
Apr 2015

I went into explicit detail above as to why I and others think the phrase and notion is harmful and all you saw was a "slam" on Hillary?? You ignored every point I made and every question I asked. Instead of thinking about it from the perspective that I posed, you got stuck on that.

That's sad. Really sad.

PeaceNikki

(27,985 posts)
16. No, I'm stuck on the fact that you still fail to see it as a legitimate concern.
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 11:17 AM
Apr 2015

It's a valid criticism of Hillary or any party leader or candidate and I explained why.

arely staircase

(12,482 posts)
22. No. I do not think that anyone wanting abortion to be 'safe, legal and rare' is a concern
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 12:46 PM
Apr 2015

I totally agree with the sentiment. So no.

csziggy

(34,136 posts)
53. The video that started this debate was from 2009
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 03:54 PM
Apr 2015

And what it was about was the debate over President Obama removing the restriction on financing family planning clinic abroad that George W. Bush had instituted during his residency in the White House otherwise known as the Mexico City Policy (https://www.whitehouse.gov/the_press_office/MexicoCityPolicy-VoluntaryPopulationPlanning/). Republican Congress people were objecting to that idea and Hillary Clinton was defending financing family planning clinics even if they did offer abortion as a choice to women.

The words that Secretary of State Hillary Clinton used in that video had NOTHING to do with the Democratic Party platform or domestic policy.

Context matters.

csziggy

(34,136 posts)
58. But this recent set of discussions is based on a years old video
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 05:01 PM
Apr 2015

The Democratic Party has changed, the country has changed, Hillary Clinton has changed. The entire circumstances in which she made that statement is no longer the same.

I don't know when the Democratic Party removed that statement from their platform, but even so it was probably convenient for Secretary of State Hillary Clinton to use that phrase in those hearings. I suspect her personal opinion of abortion is far more liberal than she could espouse in her official capacity as Secretary of State.

I'm not a super fan of Hillary Clinton, though I do have to admit that I voted for Bill Clinton in 1992 because I liked her (better than I liked him). I didn't vote for her in the primaries in 2008.

I think that nit picking her on this issue on the basis of the quote from a 2009 video of a hearing in which she was defending the official White House policy in her capacity as Secretary of State is irrelevant to Hillary Clinton as a private individual or as a politician.

PeaceNikki

(27,985 posts)
59. This isn't just about that video and Hillary.
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 05:05 PM
Apr 2015

It's about the sweeping legislation against reproductive freedom. It's about changing the narrative, owning the issue and making abortion less rare.

It's good to have the discussion, it's deeply important to many of us.

onecaliberal

(32,854 posts)
18. What exactly does that mean?
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 11:25 AM
Apr 2015

There should be as many abortions as necessary. Contraception and honest accurate information for people would go a long way. Bottom line, a woman's body and her healthcare are her business period!

arely staircase

(12,482 posts)
33. it is a woman's business and it is all of our business to see that our schools educate girls and boy
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 01:16 PM
Apr 2015

so that they can exercise their autonomy to the max. Finding yourself in need of an invasive surgery because you thought you couldn't get preggos the first time you have sex or that contraception doesn't work well so why bother with it is a shitty situation and can been avoided. That is the 'rare' part. Pretty simple.

arely staircase

(12,482 posts)
37. so? women with kids can't be ignorant?
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 01:38 PM
Apr 2015

I knew a grown woman with two kids who asked my sister what a douche was. Just because someone has had sex and given birth doesn't mean they are properly educated on the subject of how to prevent a pregnancy.

jen63

(813 posts)
48. What does douching
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 03:00 PM
Apr 2015

have to do with sex education, or preventing pregnancy? Many women have gone their entire lives without having to use a douche; this one included. Your post is condescending and somewhat ignorant.

onecaliberal

(32,854 posts)
45. That word is just not necessary to the discussion.
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 02:50 PM
Apr 2015

It plays straight into the hands of those who aren't going to vote for Clinton anyway. Educating people is awesome, it is indeed the way to lower the abortion rate but playing word games isn't the way to go about it.
Rare doesn't mean education. Rare would hopefully become product of education, but it's a tired phrase that needs to be retired.

onecaliberal

(32,854 posts)
47. ^^^^That^^^^
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 02:55 PM
Apr 2015

Because the same morality police that would starve those kids once they are born can feel better about it.

 

mr_liberal

(1,017 posts)
19. and because saying it should be rare is good politics.
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 11:44 AM
Apr 2015

Thats actually the real reason for "Safe, Legal, and Rare". Its a way to be completely pro choice without seeming extreme.

Nye Bevan

(25,406 posts)
20. Yep. Ted Kennedy was right about this.
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 11:48 AM
Apr 2015
In 1987, Kennedy delivered an impassioned speech condemning Supreme Court nominee Robert Bork as a "right-wing extremist" and warning that "Robert Bork's America" would be one marked by back alley abortions and other backward practices. Kennedy's strong opposition to Bork's nomination was important to the Senate's rejection of Bork's candidacy. In recent years, he has argued that much of the debate over abortion is a false dichotomy. Speaking at the National Press Club in 2005, he remarked, "Surely, we can all agree that abortion should be rare, and that we should do all we can to help women avoid the need to face that decision." He voted against the Partial-Birth Abortion Ban Act.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_Ted_Kennedy



arely staircase

(12,482 posts)
24. I can't believe anyone (pro-choice)would see that as a controversial statement.
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 12:54 PM
Apr 2015

Frankly it is another way of saying we should have fewer unwanted pregnancies through education and that abortion should be a safe and legal option when an unwanted pregnancy occurs. I first heard it from Ann Richards. Ted Kennedy used it a lot. Apparently it is controversial when HRC says it.

Oneironaut

(5,494 posts)
23. Anti-sex attitudes actually increase unwanted pregnancies because contraception is seen as shameful.
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 12:49 PM
Apr 2015

The more abstinence is pushed, the more unwanted pregnancies there are. Abstinence is not realistic or useful. Anti-abortion fundies are almost invariably anti-contraception / pro-abstinence.

In a society where abortion is totally accepted, abortion would be ironically rarer.

arely staircase

(12,482 posts)
25. yep. the 'ignorance is strength' fundie wing of the GOP has probably caused more abortions
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 12:56 PM
Apr 2015

than any other force in American society by keeping sex ed. Out of schools.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
26. hope you're haopy then. it's fucking rarer by the day.
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 12:56 PM
Apr 2015

that is language that HURTS the pro-choice movement. It hurts women. It was a mistake. It was giving in to the framing of the anti-choicers.

fuck that language.

arely staircase

(12,482 posts)
35. anti choicers don't want abortion to be 'safe, legal and rare"
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 01:22 PM
Apr 2015

They want it to be illegal and non-existent. Which, as we know, is a policy that simply makes it unsafe and illegal. And if it is getting rare everyday then that is the result of education. So good. I wish every pregnancy was a wanted one.

Safe legal and rare is a pro-choice framing of the issue -and frankly a good goal for any society.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
49. Framing counts: Abortion should be ACCESSIBLE AND AFFORDABLE
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 03:06 PM
Apr 2015

Abortion is a constitutional right. And it's incredibly safe. How about "Keep abortion safe. Make it accessible.?

From and article last August:

"Safe legal and rare" first became a pro-choice rallying cry during the Clinton administration, and has been invoked by media-makers and politicians like – even President Obama has called the mantra "the right formulation" on abortion. It's a "safe" pro-choice answer: to support abortion, but wish it wasn't necessary.

And it's a framing that Hillary Clinton – perhaps the next president of the United States – supports.

But "safe, legal and rare" is not a framework that supports women's health needs: it stigmatizes and endangers it.

In a 2010 research article, Dr Tracy Weitz, Director of Advancing New Standards in Reproductive Health (ANSIRH) program at the University of California, San Francisco, wrote that "rare suggests that abortion is happening more than it should, and that there are some conditions for which abortions should and should not occur".

<snip>
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jul/09/hillary-clinton-abortion-legal-but-rare
 

AgingAmerican

(12,958 posts)
36. Of course it should
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 01:24 PM
Apr 2015

Rare in the sense that it isn't necessary, rather than being used 'sparingly'.

Bit we don't live in a perfect world.

 

alphafemale

(18,497 posts)
43. When kids are given Abstinence Only sex ed that Ain't Happening.
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 02:27 PM
Apr 2015

Most dumb ass magic thinking of all time

Feron

(2,063 posts)
65. You're not helping.
Mon Apr 20, 2015, 08:15 AM
Apr 2015

Abortion is a medical procedure done for many reasons and not just because of a contraception failure.

Abortion, like contraception, should be accessible and affordable. Period.

Your feelings do not matter regarding someone else's personal medical matters. And when qualifiers like 'rare' are used, it stigmatizes the procedure you claim to support.

arely staircase

(12,482 posts)
72. betty, I disagree
Wed Apr 22, 2015, 05:28 PM
Apr 2015

but I respect your opinion (on my list of favorite posters here). I think it simply recognizes that unwanted pregnancies are preventable (through much needed comprehensive sex ed.)

Anyway, hope you are well.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
79. I understand but abortion is already becoming rare and it's not a good thing at all for the
Wed Apr 22, 2015, 09:09 PM
Apr 2015

Women-with so many denied acess, and I think part of the reason many are passive about the politics of it is than they think it sounds like that noble goal. Safe and rare confuses voters I think.

And thanks for saying all that Arley, I think that's one of the nicest things anyone has ever said to me here. I'm well- very busy at work bit good. Happy spring is here! How are you doing?

locks

(2,012 posts)
77. If abortion had been rare
Wed Apr 22, 2015, 06:14 PM
Apr 2015

and the "right-to-lifers" had "rescued" all those millions of fetuses since Roe v Wade what would have happened to them? Would all these people who feel they have the high moral ground have fed, clothed, educated and kept them in good health? Are they saving the millions of born children who are dying in refugee camps or getting killed in wars? Are they adopting all the unwanted and neglected born children in their neighborhoods? Are they promoting sex education, contraception and family planning?

These same people are passing laws all over the nation to restrict abortion and criminalize women and doctors under the pretense that they are "protecting women's health." Colorado's Family Planning Program which has cut teen-age pregnancy in half is in jeopardy because the "personhood" people have convinced the Republicans to not fund it because "using an IUD is having abortions and young women would take more risks."

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