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[Skinner]

This message was self-deleted by its author (Skinner) on Fri Jun 26, 2015, 07:24 AM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

[ellenrr]

1. yeah well some left-wing heads would explode too. lol

anyone who calls hillary a progressive is ignorant, i don't care how they are. or their definition of progressive is different than mine.
Is a war-mongerer a progressive?
Is someone who destroys welfare a progressive (bill)?
Is someone who brings the surveillance state to a new "high" (Bill) a progressive?

too funny

[Emelina]

6. She appears way more a corporatist

And a supporter of the military-industrial-surveillance state.

[Cosmic Kitten]

34. +1 And war "hawkish"

Billions for war...
precious little for the needy.

Where does Hillary stand on
"black lives mater"?
Has Hillary mentioned Ferguson yet?

There will be no shortage
of people seeking self-promotion
that jump in the "Scooby Mobile"

[Gman]

56. You're probably not aware that Bill Clinton

Promptly set up his post-presidential office in Harlem. There is no question where Hillary stands on Black lives matter. None.

[Cosmic Kitten]

65. LOL...links to any of Hillary's comments on recent police shooting tragedies?

Yeah, I remember;
Bill was the first "black president"

WASHINGTON (CBS DC) — Comedian Chris Rock called former President Bill Clinton a “d***,” saying that although Clinton was labeled “the first black president,” Hillary Clinton and President Barack Obama have guided his public image in recent years.
....

“He’s a d***, but you’re talking about a guy who’s embarrassed his wife,” he said in an interview with New York Magazine, recalling that in 2008 the former president was blasting Obama on the campaign trail to defend his wife, which angered black voters.

Rock noted he “couldn’t judge” Clinton, joking that he was forced to choose between Hillary Clinton and black people as a whole. “The hell with the black people,” Rock joked. “Because he doesn’t live with all the black people. He lives with his wife.”
http://washington.cbslocal.com/2014/12/01/chris-rock-bill-clinton-is-a-d/

[AtomicKitten]

242. Harlem was his second choice.

link: http://www.nytimes.com/2001/02/13/nyregion/criticized-on-office-rent-clinton-looks-to-harlem.html

Criticized on Office Rent, Clinton Looks to Harlem
By CHARLES V. BAGLI with MARC LACEY
Published: February 13, 2001

Faced with a barrage of criticism for his decision to rent lavish office space in Manhattan, former President Bill Clinton yesterday abandoned his plans to move into the 56th floor of a Midtown skyscraper. He is now looking uptown, at more modest space on Harlem's main shopping boulevard, with equally panoramic views.

Officials at the General Services Administration, which oversees office space for former presidents, said yesterday that Mr. Clinton's office had notified them that he was no longer interested in Carnegie Hall Tower, where he had planned to rent the 56th floor for $738,700 a year.

Yesterday morning, Mr. Clinton's staff met with the owners of a newly renovated office building at 55 West 125th Street, between Lenox and Fifth Avenues, and toured the vacant top floor of the 14-story building. The asking rent for the 7,000-square-foot space is $30 a square foot, compared with $89 at Carnegie Hall Tower. The total annual rent would be $210,000.

<<snip>>

[Gman]

312. What's your point?

His office was promptly set up in Harlem. What's your point? He should be at the Carnegie Center? He shopped for a good deal. Why is that a problem? Good grief. I would expect just such a comment from a teabagger not at DU. Why is it wrong for an ex-prez to have an office in a Black area of NYC?

[rury]

306. You're probably not aware that Harlem was NOT his first choice.

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/02/13/nyregion/criticized-on-office-rent-clinton-looks-to-harlem.html

And that has zilch to do with Black Lives Matter anyway.

[Gman]

310. Wasn't his first choice?

Well I guess that makes the Clintons worse than the Kochs. LOL! It don't matter, she will be the next president. And 70% of Democrats agree with me. I'm in excellent company.

[rury]

357. You're putting an awful lot of words in my mouth. I made no

such a ridiculous statement comparing the Clintons to the Kochs. As for who the next president will be we'll just have to wait and see how things shake out a WHOLE YEAR FROM NOW after Hillary gets a challenger. But for now we'll just watch her conduct her phony focus group campaign with "ordinary Americans!"

[Gman]

380. With 70% of Democrats supporting her

In the primaries, I'm curious about who you consider "ordinary Americans".

[George II]

140. Yawn.....before asking those questions do a little research!

[Cosmic Kitten]

146. Links?

[George II]

150. To start:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2014/08/29/hillary-clinton-was-surprisingly-bold-on-ferguson/

("hillary" "clinton" "ferguson&quot

[BeanMusical]

366. Hum, maybe you should have picked another article.

Hillary Clinton was surprisingly bold on Ferguson

Her statements in many ways echo those of Sen. Rand Paul’s who also imagined himself as Michael Brown, mouthing off at a cop as a teen, but with a very different outcome based on race. Both Paul and Clinton went further in their statements than Sen. Elizabeth Warren and Obama, who in his third statement on Ferguson, touched on black crime rates, and only allowed that there might be sentencing disparities and differential treatment for blacks in the criminal justice system. Paul and Clinton’s boldness on racism and the criminal justice system is a risky and bold move, given the wide divide in how blacks and whites think about and experience race.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2014/08/29/hillary-clinton-was-surprisingly-bold-on-ferguson/

[MADem]

162. All you can do is consider the source.

Research? That involves FACTS!!

[lewebley3]

186. Hillary is a peace maker: She nego many treaties: Look them up!!

If you don't understand where Hillary stands on black lives mater!!

You need to do some homework, Hillary is running for President of all
Americans. Just because you don't get your pet issue talked about doesn't
mean Hillary doesn't care.


Hillary didn't take this country to war: Bush did!


What is wrong with self promotion, especially for a good cause, there is nothing wrong with
ambition in anyone.

[Scootaloo]

302. "Pet Issue"?

Is that how Clinton supporters regard the lives of black people, a "pet issue"?

[lewebley3]

384. Yes, it is your Pet Issue, Afrian American 16% of population~Justice is everyones concern!

No one in Dem's party don't think black lives don't matter: its like saying
you need to know if Dem's believe in gravity: they already do, question the
GOP about this matter: the Dems are supported by 90% Afrian Americans
for many a reasons; and we do have black president.(for obvious start)

Why would you attack Hillary about this matter, she has never said black lives
don't matter.

Why are progressive always attacking other Dems, attack people who are working
against your interest the GOP.

[Scootaloo]

397. I'm not attacking Hillary, I'm questioning her supporters

You're calling concern for black lives a "pet issue." and I want to know if you think that you speak for other Clinton supporters on that statement.

[lewebley3]

423. Obviously I only speak for Me!! Hillary has 80% support of Dems

As I said before: to claim that Hillary doesn't care about black lives is
crazy!! Its like asking if she believes gravity, it should be taken as given she cares,
what we need is more justice for the American people in dealing with
law enforcement.

[Scootaloo]

424. As I said before: I'm talking about her supporters

I don't worry much about Clinton myself. Not my favored candidate becuase, hey, I'm one of those dreadful leftists who expects things. But whatever. it's Clinton's supporters who have consistently weirded and freaked me out, whether they're defecting to McCain in 2008 or insisting Warren fans are rapists, or whatever.

You're calling black lives a 'pet issue." I think that's pretty messed up.

[lewebley3]

425. You are a troll: working for the GOP!

If you seem to be a Clinton basher!: I have great expectation of Clinton, but
she cannot do anything without her supporters:

The election is about Americans not so much about Hillary: she is our best choice!!

If you don't like Hillary go support someone else!!

[lewebley3]

181. Hillary is a progressive, If she appears corporatist: You don't know the facts about Hillary!!

Hillary was progressive long before Dem's new the word!!

Go to the library and check out her books, learn about who she is
and where she comes from.

[lewebley3]

211. Do your Homework: Goldwater girls would be to liberal for the GOP

Goldwater: Believe in separated church and state, and believed in building public roads,
with public money. He was pro epa:, don't confused GOP in the 50's with,
the Koch Brothers lead GOP of today. The GOP use to be great supporters of
abortion rights and planned parenthood. Now, since ciztens united decision, they have
turned their party over the the corporations, but it really started under Regan.

The Dem party is a liberal cause she has put her life on the line for 30 years.

Hillary could have been a very rich woman: if she wanted just served private interest, but
she has chosen public serves almost all of her life.

Hillary has more than proven that she is a progressive, and because you don't do
your home work, she should not have to suffer.

[okaawhatever]

235. +1,000 nt

[JDPriestly]

341. Sorry. Goldwater was the grandfather of the conservative movement.

He would not agree with many of the extreme views of today's conservatives, but at his time, he was also the guy who said that extremism in defense of liberty was a virtue.

At his time, he was viewed as an extremist. I was there. I remember how he was viewed. I remember his ad featuring a mushroom cloud.

He was extremely conservative for that time which shows you how far to the right our country has moved.

[okasha]

349. You don't remember that ad.

The mushroom-cloud ad was anti-Goldwater, portraying him as a warmonger likely to precipitate a nuclear war. It was sponsored by LBJ's campaign and was so offensive that it was pulled almost immediately.

[JDPriestly]

359. It told the truth about what a war-monger Goldwater was.

[okasha]

360. You called it his ad.

It wasn't.

And it was LBJ, not Goldwater, that made Vietnam the disaster it became.

[JDPriestly]

361. I agree. But Goldwater was very extreme.

I was born 1943. I remember it all quite clearly. Goldwater was the first of the Republican candidates to be so extremely right-wing. Today, of course, he seems moderate to a lot of people. But he was the first of the bad, bad lot.

[lewebley3]

386. Wrong,Goldwater and Millers children are liberals, they claim their Daddy's would be libs

Last edited Tue Apr 21, 2015, 02:11 PM - Edit history (1)

Goldwater said what people in his party needed a kick in
pants: (he was anti extreme in his party).
He was not the farther of Regan conservatism, he would be sick to
see the GOP today

Stephanie Miller and CC Goldwater, are children of these this men,
and like Hillary left the GOP to join the Dem's before Regan was elected.

The GOP is not the part of 1950's, many GOP who were pro union in the party,
Regan ruined the GOP and this country

Hillary has never been apart of damage Regan did to this country.

[JDPriestly]

389. Thanks. It never occurred to me that anyone would take my use of the

word "grandfather" literally. Love Stephanie Miller. I was not thinking of the actual family relationships. Sorry. I meant "grandfather" figuratively.

Whether he intended it or not, Goldwater gave courage to the infamous right-wing movement. He made their nutty ideas acceptable in the mainstream. Whether he shared them or not, most people thought he did. Born in 1943, I was pretty aware of what was going on when Goldwater ran. From the point of view of the liberal Democrats of which I was one, Goldwater was very extreme in his views. He may seem middle-of-the-road today, but that is only because of the extreme rightward shift of the US. What was then far right is now the Third Way maybe. That is not to be taken literally, but it is rather a way of describing how far right the Republican Party went beginning with Goldwater.

[lewebley3]

391. Goldwater was infamous right-wing until Regan conservatism:

Its Regan conservatism is what has destroyed this country: and Hillary was
never a part of it!!

[JDPriestly]

392. Both Hillary and Elizabeth Warren are former Republicans.

I suspect that they both were mostly Republicans because their parents or families were Republican.

[R B Garr]

394. It's obvious that your real intention is to let Warren off the hook

for being an actual Republican by mixing some insignificant vignettes in about Clinton's maturation process into the First Lady of a Democratic President and a lifelong Democrat.

I guess it makes you all feel better somehow, but it's very obvious what is going on.

[OKNancy]

403. Hillary was never a Republican... stop saying that

by the time she was old enough to vote at age 21, she was a Democrat.

[rhett o rick]

393. Maybe on social but she is definately not progressive on Free Trade Agreements,

Fracking, the Patriot Act, Wall Street regulations, the NSA/CIA Security State, war in the Middle East, etc. She doesn't qualify to be called a progressive.

We need someone that's progressive on all issues not just a few. If you use Sen Sanders as an example of a Progressive you'd see that Clinton doesn't measure up.

[hifiguy]

254. She only appears that way because

that is exactly what she is.

[m-lekktor]

7. naaah, just an eyeroll from this "leftwing head", no explosions. nt

[deutsey]

155. A lackluster shrug is all I can muster. n/t

[brooklynite]

14. Funny...I wasn't aware that Bill was running again.

[Warren DeMontague]

270. He's not.

The member of the family who voted for the IWR, is.

[JTFrog]

385. As opposed to the one who launched Operation Desert Fox in 1998?

Just sayin...

[Warren DeMontague]

395. The IWR was a bigger clusterfuck by many orders of magnitude, but regardless

I dont actually think this primary is going to be built around comparing the relative merits of Bill versus Hillary.. Certainly an amount of congruity between the policies of the two is at least implied, which is fine, as others have noted the 90s were a boom time, we ran a surplus, and many recall that era fondly.

One thing i can say is that while he is pretty clearly a more skilled politician (not really a fair comparison- as was demonstrated again in the '08 and '12 elections, the guy is the Michael Jordan of political speaking, etc. -- there is no one who comes close to his natural abilities in that regard) it is unlikely that Hillary would be subject to the sorts of personality... Issues which plagued BC. To wit, I dont envision her administration being plagued by a "screwed around with an intern" scandal.

[JTFrog]

398. Well she did base her argument in favor of the IWR on her husband's actions in 1998.

"I know that the administration wants more, including an explicit authorization to use force, but we may not be able to secure that now, perhaps even later. But if we get a clear requirement for unfettered inspections, I believe the authority to use force to enforce that mandate is inherent in the original 1991 U.N. resolution, as President Clinton recognized when he launched Operation Desert Fox in 1998."

Personally, this is no longer a make or break issue for me. Too much is on the line. I just don't quite think it's fair to give Bill a pass and then skewer Hillary for following his lead.

[Warren DeMontague]

408. No, most of the criticisms I would level at HRC can apply to her husband, as well.

(And there are some, as I alluded to, that apply to him but not so much to her.)

To wit, I think both of them cut their political teeth so profoundly, first in Arkansas and then after the 94 midterms, vastly outnumbered on a conservative playing field--- on the necessity of triangulating, modulating, and at worst equivocating or taking questionable positions of nothing more than pure calculation or political expediency- that these things are hard baked into the Clinton political DNA.

And sometimes, that approach is a good call. A good plan. But other times we need leadership that is willing to take stands not necessarily backed up by focus groups, or poll-tested into the ground.

I think now is one of those times, but again, HRC has been in the race for about a week. There is lots of time for her to take decisive stands on all sorts of important issues, and I hope she will.

Lastly, the IWR is not a make or break issue for me, either... I do appreciate the fact that Hillary finally used the "m" word about it.

[MissDeeds]

20. Notice how the definition of "progressive"

is being co-opted when it pertains to Hillary Clinton? I guess along with DINO we now have PINO (progressive in name only). Not buying it.

[Demeter]

74. I will add PINO to my list. Thanks!

[840high]

355. Me2 PINO!

[liberal_at_heart]

410. The term middle class will be thrown around a lot too, doesn't mean she will actually

fight for the middle class. I'm not buying it either.

[samsingh]

216. i guess the alternatives of romney, rands, bushes are better choices?

[cui bono]

326. Wow! They all switched to the Dem Party?

When did that happen???

[samsingh]

377. no - when we fight amongst ourselves and want perfection the right-wing destroys us

see 2000
see 2004

see the mid term elections that just went by.

[cui bono]

401. So we should not have a primary? That's how this works.

You jumped right from someone not wanting Hillary to them wanting a Republican. That's a big leap and completely false I'm sure.

When people express dislike of a particular candidate in primary season it in no way automatically means they want a Republican. I really wish people would stop trying to use that false meme on DU.

[samsingh]

402. we should have the primary BUT not villianize our candidates

there are some who are clearly on the left with us but say they won't vote for Hillary no matter what. What has she done that is worse than the repugs have done.

[cui bono]

404. You're still making a false comparison when you keep comparing her to Republicans.

"What has she done that is worse than the repugs have done."

Republicans have nothing to do with it at this time. When people criticize Hillary it does not mean they like a Republican.

[samsingh]

406. have you forgotton 2000? people who didn't like Gore supported

nader or stayed home. we ended up with the biggest repug idiots of them all.

[cui bono]

407. That was the general election. We haven't had a primary yet.

I think you're just getting a little ahead of yourself. Hillary is not the nominee, we have time to decide who that will be, then we can take on the Republicans.

[MissMillie]

240. the right has gone so far right that a moderate looks progressive

And I don't say that to insult Hillary.... but there are very few progressives left, and she's not one of them.

Is she qualified to be President? You bet.

Would she be my first pick? Nope.

The fact of the matter is that for some reason the electorate of this country believes that they are being taxed to death, despite the fact that the overall tax burden is at a 60+ year low.

I sat down with a group of thirty-somethings that earn something around $25000/year that kept telling me that they have lived through a tax increase.

Uh..... no.

Their wages have stagnated.

Someone told me the other day that in the 1950s were the big boon for this country. They were right. What they don't realize is that the top marginal tax rate for the top 1% was around 90%.

Which makes for a great sound byte for the left but it's not the whole picture.

The GOP thinks that if you cut taxes on the upper brackets that they will behave in the best interest of the country and reinvest their money here in this country and create jobs.

There is absolutely no evidence to support that theory.

The upper brackets brake up unions, send their money overseas to employ people for less than half of what workers could make here.

PEOPLE act in their OWN best interest.

When the government gets involved there's the issue that whatever we spend the money on has to be voted on by the representatives of the people.

[2banon]

420. Well Said MissMillie!

[billhicks76]

279. Renounce

Can we petition Hillary to publicly renounce being called an honorary Bush Family member by Bush Sr and GW? I would feel good about that.

[samsingh]

295. the worst thing that can happen is to have a repug win the presidency

they will stack the supreme court with more imbeciles like scalia.

Hillary, like Obama will not.

[rury]

305. Re:"yeah well some left-wing heads would explode too. lol"

MY left-wing head just exploded.
Hillary is NO progressive.

[AlbertCat]

382. Bill?

I'm not a fan of Clinton....Hillary Clinton


But in your post when you say "bill"... do you mean she proposed some bill? Or do you think she's the same person as her husband?

"Cause she's not.


She definitely no "progressive" tho'.

[BainsBane]

400. You just called Skinner ignorant

Wow.

[cali]

2. the evidence that this is not founded in reality is strong. I wish it were true.

I wish I could buy into that. Facts do not support it.

Not on economic equity issues. At best she's middle of the road.

Not on issues like energy/environment

Good on women's issues but even there she's been cautious- saying she could support a ban on late term abortions, for instance, as long as the life and health of the woman was protected.

She hasn't led on issues like Keystone- and I could respect her coming out for it because I don't think it's so cut and dried.

Not on issues like the TPP.

Suggesting a constitutional amendment as a solution to CU is cynical nonsense. There is no chance of that happening.

I think HRC learned a lesson from her push for health care reform while First Lady- the lesson was don't be too bold.

[Cosmic Kitten]

37. ACORN+VOTING RIGHTS=HILLARY?

[rhett o rick]

51. The Conservative Wing couldn't wait to watch ACORN die. nm

[Cosmic Kitten]

54. MmmHmm, less voters, more better for THEM

[SidDithers]

3. DUrec...

This should be good.

Sid

[William769]

23. Took the words right out of my mouth.

[ismnotwasm]

79. Yup

Oh the wailing and gnashing of teeth

[Sheepshank]

98. The predictable swarming of negativism added to the top of every HRC thread

right on schedule.

[ProudProg2u]

172. Who had avatar first...?

Guess I'll have to change mine. Cause I'm a True progressive as my name implies and I don't belong the the "Hillary for hire" group...If I have to change it again we will understand this as a "Hillary for Hire" tactic...fair enough...?

[SidDithers]

227. 1...nt

Sid

[William769]

282. Another one bites the dust.

[freshwest]

371. Bwahaha! Thanks, Skinner! Wait... Sid is Skinner! n/t

[leftofcool]

263. And from the same people.

[freshwest]

309. Thank You, Skinner, for the gift of IGNORE! I missed half this thread, LOL!

Clear (anecdotal) proof that there is no anti-HRC/ anti-Democratic Party sentiment at DU! I feel so much better!

[MADem]

233. It's like watching Ali fight.

Very decisive, but initially not what it may seem...!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

4. What my compadre, Sid, said

[Surya Gayatri]

5. K & R for exploding heads, and not just right-wing ones.

[cali]

15. My head remains unexploded and firmly attached to my body

with a functioning brain. The evidence just doesn't support Ms. Lewis' claim. It would be wonderful if it were true, but I've never been able to see "the emperor's new clothing".

sometimes I wish I could.

She's better than any republican on any issue I care about, but I don't believe we live in a time when that is even close to being good enough. She lacks political courage and conviction.

I've never been someone who tosses out the phrase "third way", but I fear it fits HRC.

We need someone bold and fearless, willing to take tough positions and fight for them.

That is not the HRC of the past 15 years.

[Surya Gayatri]

28. 'She's better than any republican on any issue I care about'...

And, in the present polarized political reality, that's why she can most likely win.

And, why somebody like Sanders most likely cannot.

[Cosmic Kitten]

41. People don't care about WAR, and the ECONOMY???

Hillary IS NOT better
than any Republican
on armed conflict.

She is FOR escalating
the conflict between
Russia and the Ukraine!

Hillary Rodham Clinton has sparked a political uproar this week by wading into the middle of the ongoing conflict in Ukraine, likening the moves of Russian President Vladimir Putin to the actions of Nazi dictator Adolf Hitler leading up to World War II.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/hillary-clintons-putin-hitler-comments-draw-rebukes-as-she-wades-into-ukraine-conflict/2014/03/05/31a748d8-a486-11e3-84d4-e59b1709222c_story.html

And THAT is better than
any Republican

[Surya Gayatri]

48. FYI, that was a quote from here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026536409#post15

'She's better than any republican on any issue I care about, but I don't believe we live in a time when that is even close to being good enough. She lacks political courage and conviction.'

[Cosmic Kitten]

58. OK, but why can she win IYO?

Or am I misunderestimating your point?

[Surya Gayatri]

62. Because the polls show that she appeals to a broad

spectrum. Because she has the Latino, Black and Women's vote locked down, etc. etc. etc.

[Cosmic Kitten]

66. OK, I'm having deja vu

I feel like we've been here before

[DemocratSinceBirth]

76. I like Hillary because she gets things done

I still get goosebumps when I watch that video.

[Surya Gayatri]

100. She will be GOOD!

[Demeter]

80. Really? Locked down, you say?

Want to put money on that?

[Surya Gayatri]

83. Too early, and I don't wager.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

105. Sure, I have a friend who put 50k on Mayweather...He's rich. I'm broke...

He's in Vegas now playing in the World Series Of Poker.

He's not political but he does have money. The bet has to be substantial and he's going to need clear and convincing evidence he's going to get paid, should he win, or he's going to laugh at me for bringing it up.


The bet would be on the Democratic nomination and then you two can go on from there.

[JonLP24]

161. Your post reminds me of this story

Floyd Mayweather won $600K betting on the Broncos

Two last-second interceptions returned for touchdowns by the Denver Broncos and Arizona Cardinals delivered million-dollar blows to Las Vegas sports books, including a $600,000 hit from boxing champ Floyd Mayweather Jr.

Broncos cornerback Aqib Talib picked off New York Jets quarterback Geno Smith and returned it 22 yards for a touchdown that covered the point spread in the Broncos' 31-17 win. Mayweather bet $815,000 on the Broncos to beat the Jets by more than 7.5 points. He laid -130 juice and collected $1.4 million from the CG Technology sports book at the M Resort.

<snip>

"Floyd didn't watch the game here," Simbal said, "but he certainly showed up shortly thereafter to cash."

"The place went absolutely berserk," MGM's vice president of race and sports, Jay Rood, said. "I kicked a hole in the wall. I'll leave it as a reminder of my feelings toward Geno Smith."

http://espn.go.com/espn/chalk/story/_/id/11691925/floyd-mayweather-jr-wins-600k-las-vegas-bet-following-geno-smith-interception

[DemocratSinceBirth]

164. I don't gamble because I am essentially broke...

I do like to go to sportsbooks when I have the chance to watch folks who have money on the game. Also, there is a tendency to remember the bets you should have made but didn't when the team or player you would have bet on won as opposed to the bets you should have made when the team or player you bet on lost.

Most gamblers are losers. That's a empirical observation and not a normative one.

[cali]

52. Sadly, that is better than any republican

I think she's way, way too prone to using military "solutions", but yeah, they're ALL worse.

[Cosmic Kitten]

70. As a whole, she may be better on social difference.

Issue by issue,
not much daylight.

Isreal/palestine,
Iran/Iraq,
Russia/Ukraine
Fracking
TPP
Keystone

[Sheepshank]

103. so you are saying we may as well vote Republican?

really?

Fuck that sticking pile of excrement. Passing off the bullshit of Rep=Dem.

[Cosmic Kitten]

114. Don't put words in my mouth, thanks

What I'm saying is that
rather than kiss Hillary's ass,
make her bend to "Democratic Values"

Is she wants our votes,
if she want to be our "Champion",
MAKE HER PROVE IT.

Its sickening to watch
people fawn over someone who
will ignore our needs once
they have secured our votes.

THEY are public servants

[Sheepshank]

128. That is what you said....you own it.

Issue by issue,
not much daylight.

Isreal/palestine,
Iran/Iraq,
Russia/Ukraine
Fracking
TPP
Keystone

[Cosmic Kitten]

135. Don't put words in my mouth, AGAIN

If you have issues with
reading comprehension,
work it our for yourself.

Nowhere did I say;
may as well vote Republican?
That's what YOU are said.

I am saying, FORCE the
candidate to represent progressive,
"DEMOCRATIC VALUES"

Kissing a candidates ass
and not making demands
or making them earn votes
is not serving the Public interests.

[Sheepshank]

138. bwah haa haa...I quoted you word for word. How is that putting words in your mouth?

what a fucking walk back.

[Cosmic Kitten]

145. Pfft. Later done with you

Sheepshank wrote...
The predictable swarming of negativism

I wrote:...
As a whole, she may be better on social difference.
Issue by issue,
not much daylight.

Isreal/palestine,
Iran/Iraq,
Russia/Ukraine
Fracking
TPP
Keystone

Sheepshank wrote:
so you are saying we may as well vote Republican?
really?

Fuck that sticking pile of excrement. Passing off the bullshit of Rep=Dem.

I wrote:
Don't put words in my mouth, thanks
What I'm saying is that
rather than kiss Hillary's ass,
make her bend to "Democratic Values"

Is she wants our votes,
if she want to be our "Champion",
MAKE HER PROVE IT.

Its sickening to watch
people fawn over someone who
will ignore our needs once
they have secured our votes.

THEY are public servants

Sheepshank wrote:
That is what you said....you own it
Issue by issue,
not much daylight.

Isreal/palestine,
Iran/Iraq,
Russia/Ukraine
Fracking
TPP
Keystone

I wrote:
Don't put words in my mouth, AGAIN

If you have issues with
reading comprehension,
work it our for yourself.

Nowhere did I say;
may as well vote Republican?
That's what YOU are said.

I am saying, FORCE the
candidate to represent progressive,
"DEMOCRATIC VALUES"

Kissing a candidates ass
and not making demands
or making them earn votes
is not serving the Public interests.

Sheepshank wrote:
bwah haa haa...I quoted you word for word. How is that putting words in your mouth?

what a fucking walk back.

Now show where I wrote
"....we may as well vote Republican?"

Don't waste my time with your
predictable swarming of negativism

[ProudProg2u]

173. Who had avater first...?

Guess I'll have to change mine. Cause I'm a True progressive as my name implies and I don't belong the the "Hillary for hire" group...If I have to change it again we will understand this as a "Hillary for Hire" tactic...fair enough...?

[SidDithers]

228. 2...nt

Sid

[Sheepshank]

247. hello...it's spelled AVATAR....do you have a banner that says "Moran" too ;) n/t

[muriel_volestrangler]

292. Quite probably ...

They flamed out rather quickly: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=320292

[sheshe2]

354. Lol~

And they did it on Skinners Op! How stupid can they be Skinner banned them!

[cui bono]

347. No, you are wrong.

Never was is said we might as well vote for a Republican. The fact of the matter is we want to vote for a real Democrat. Not a corporate warhawk.

Just because people don't want Hillary doesn't mean they want a Republican. That is a false meme that has taken hold here and it's just not true. Hillary isn't the nominee so not wanting her simply means we want a different Dem.

[zeemike]

159. Right, like Al Gore said he invented the internet.

I guess if it worked for the GOP it will work here too.

[rhett o rick]

84. Some see what they want to see. Like the blind wisemen and the elephant.

The social activists see her as a fighter for social issues (Progressive) but the neocons* see her as a fighter for American imperialism (not Progressive).

The 99% need someone to fight for them not just for social issues but also for economic, foreign policy and citizen's rights ala. the NSA/CIA Security State.

* http://democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6317204

[Bluenorthwest]

107. The problem is you can not claim to speak for the 99% after denying that 'social activists' are the

99%. Straight White People alone do not make up 99% of the population. If you want to be the 99%, you have to reach out.

[rhett o rick]

119. What I actually said was this, "The 99% need someone to fight for them not just for social issues

but also for economic, foreign policy and citizen's rights ala. the NSA/CIA Security State." I never claim to speak for anyone but myself.

I notice that you didn't contribute to the discussion of whether Clinton is progressive or not.

[Bluenorthwest]

133. yeah, the arguing about your personalities is your trip. I'm talking about the 'social issues' you

sneer at. Those of you who keep pushing this dichotomy are just wrong to do so. You are not the 99% without the rest of us.
Your claim that social issues are not economic issues, they are 'just social issues'. You think that because of your privileged status. That's also why you think you can command me to speak about what you want to talk about, personality politics, instead of what I want to talk about, the shitty verbiage straight white people keep indulging in. My State Primary is over a year away. I'll decide the day before if I want to. Nothing at all you can do about that.

[rhett o rick]

147. I guess if you can't discuss the issue, you make it all about the posters.

Granted some of the 99% believe the propaganda and want badly to believe their authoritarian leaders. They do so at their own peril.

"Your claim that social issues are not economic issues, they are 'just social issues'." I made no such claim. I am glad for the opportunity to clarify. I strongly support social issues and appreciate politicians that do also. The problem comes in when politicians support social equality issues but not wealth equality issues. While we may be making so headway with social equality, we are losing economic equality. And if we lose badly enough, we will no longer be able to fight for social equality.

We need candidates that speak out for wealth equality as well as social equality.

[Bluenorthwest]

195. Then say that. What you do instead is just negative campaigning.

You insist upon separation where there is none.
When I read posts like yours, I know you have not been paying any attention. The entire foundation of the modern LGBT political movement was about Wall St, Washington, Insurance, Pharma. The single longest running LGBT legislative objective is to gain protection from discrimination in employment, it's a jobs issue. The still unpassed bill now called ENDA has been rejected by Congress over and over again, going back to the 70's when it was first introduced by Bella Abzug and Ed Koch of NY. It's about jobs. About opportunity for economic equality.
Why is it that a bill to end discrimination in employment is still to this day considered a 'gay social issue' by the larger progressive left instead of as a clearly economic issue, a workplace fairness stance that is basic to any progressive worldview? Why is that 'a social issue' instead of a pressing issue of economic justice?
How in fact can straight DUers come to LGBT posters and preach 'Your rights don't matter if you can't get a job' when the main right we have been fighting for for my entire adult life is the right to get a fucking job? You explain that to me.

[rhett o rick]

204. You are putting words in my mouth apparently to be able to express your outrage.

I have never said, " 'Your rights don't matter if you can't get a job'". I am a strong supporter of LGBT rights. I support candidate that support LGBT and womens rights. For example, Sen Sanders and Sen Warren. But I will not support candidates that support the transfer of the wealth from the lower classes to the wealthy, even if they support LGBT rights. I want both social equality and economic equality. I think they go hand in hand. Without economic equality, we will lose our Democracy with it's freedoms and liberties. We will also lose all the social rights we've worked so hard to obtain.

If you can't hold a discussion without putting false words in my mouth, then go find someone else to use to vent your outrage.

[cui bono]

352. +1

[marble falls]

374. Exactly the way I feel: I don't have any other candidate I support(I think Warren....

is more effective for us where she is right now) yet, but if Hillary Clinton is the candidate, I have no intention of sitting home or voting against her by voting GOP, I will vote for her and encourage everyone I can to vote for her.

[cali]

46. Sure she has a far better chance than Sanders, but what a low bar

it is that she's better than any of the insane, reactionary repukes. That's pitiful. I think she's a very bad candidate and I think she has little political courage. I also think she stands a real chance of losing in the general.

I'll vote for her with a heavy heart.

[Sheepshank]

108. lol Sanders is a terribly low bar for Clinton to shoot for?

there are many Sander-ites here, that may not like the reality of your statement that Sanders can't win this horse race.

[Autumn]

120. I'm a "Sander-ite". Yeah I know winning this horse race is an uphill battle but having been to many

horse races there are times I have seen the horse in the lead falter or break a leg and the long shot comes in.

[cali]

125. that's clearly NOT the low bar I was referring to. You seem to have problems with very

basic reading comprehension. I don't know that I can put it in simpler language: That she's better than insane repukes is the low bar. And I am a supporter of Bernie's. He's my Senator. That doesn't mean I think he can win the nomination. I think we're stuck with HRC- a bad candidate, not honest, not a leader and not a Progressive, and someone with no political courage. Just an opportunist who won't take a stand on a myriad of vital issues.

[Sheepshank]

132. nope...I got it the first time around

Perhpas you didn't intend for it to come out that way. But if you didn't mean that way, it wasn't my comprehension as much as writing style that needs correcting. Clearly you said that Sanders can't win and therefore Hillary has a low bar to shoot for. The fact that you clarify that Reps are even lower than Sanders, doesn't change that the Sanders' bar is low.

[cali]

149. Huge fail: but what a low bar it is that she's better than any of the insane, reactionary repukes.

that's the quote. It's clear that I said the low bar is "that she's better than any of the insane, reactionary repukes."

yeah, it still burns. I should learn to have a higher tolerance for it and more patience with those like you who have trouble reading.

I'll try to keep it very, very simple for you.

[Tarheel_Dem]

237. You read it right the first time, notwithstanding the poster's later attempts to recover.

[haikugal]

288. Clearly...don't bite that hook. LOL

Low reader comprehension or bias blinkers... I read it twice to make sure but you were clear.

[NorthCarolina]

340. I'm a BEEJILLION times more enthused about the prospect

of a Sanders candidacy than I am yet another Clinton candidacy. I'm tired of constantly putting my values on hold while Wall Street and their DLC/Third-Way/New Dem stooges thrust yet another of their contract candidates on us with the usual warning about "The SCOTUS' if we don't concede. I'm not doing that anymore.

[ProudProg2u]

176. Who had avater first..?

Guess I'll have to change mine. Cause I'm a True progressive as my name implies and I don't belong the the "Hillary for hire" group...If I have to change it again we will understand this as a "Hillary for Hire" tactic...fair enough...?

[sufrommich]

184. Stop spamming the thread. DUers see the thread go to the top

of the page and look for the new post. You've now posted the same thing three times. Very uncool.

[davidpdx]

367. Really, maybe you might want to say that to one of the Hillary Clinton supporters as well

who constantly spams threads. I've never seen anyone that supports Hillary Clinton complain about her.

[sufrommich]

375. Really? Someone posted the exact same post 7 times

in another thread? Show me.

[davidpdx]

381. I'd be happy to tell you who it was, but certainly not in plain sight

as the post would get hidden.

[SidDithers]

229. 3...nt

Sid

[PrefersaPension]

411. If you are a Third Way Democrat, then just say it!!!

Sanders stands for what the Democratic party stands for -- if you want to turn the Democratic party into something other, then just say you support the Third Way or Neoliberals, and we'll move on...

Kissing ass to Skinner? Speak for yourself much? What happened to our party???

Maybe Sanders can't win, but that doesn't mean his message isn't what the Democratic party is all about. Chew on that for awhile.

[Demeter]

77. My stomach, however is rebelling violently

[cali]

91. I think it's fascinating that so many HRC supporters ignore the strong evidence that

demonstrates that she is not a progressive on many vital issues and lacks leadership. they just refuse to address the facts and history when it's put in front of them.

I think she's bad for the party and bad for the nation. I also think she's a shitty campaigner and that will become as evident as it was last time around.

IT is what it is. The democratic party has become so bad that perhaps it deserves such a craven figure as its leader.

[Demeter]

94. I wish I could argue any of your points, but I'm not into fantasy

Realism may suck, but it's all we've got to work with, in Real Life.

[cali]

110. I wish your post made even a scrap of sense. You can't argue my points because you

don't deal with reality. and that would be reality, not "realism" Hell, it's clear you don't even know the difference.

Ah well, very few people seem able to discuss facts and evidence.

[Demeter]

127. Can't a person even agree with you? Sheesh!

I'm on your side, Cali.

[Iliyah]

97. LOL, and the negativity is oozing out as well

[democrank]

8. Right.

I can hardly tell her and Elizabeth Warren apart. A few days ago I confused one of Hillary`s quotes with one of Paul Wellstone`s.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

12. " Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery."

NT

[Demeter]

82. LOL!

[L0oniX]

113. LMFAO

[pscot]

144. Wellstone is dead and Warren isn't running

so what are our options? Webb? O'Malley? Like the songs says, "clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, here I am stuck in the middle with (Hillary).

[mopinko]

9. hillary's commitment to improve the lives of women and children

around the world makes her a progressive in my eyes.
she has stood strong for reproductive health since she was the first lady. she cares about the environment.
that is how i see the world. care for mothers and children and the rest takes care of itself.

[Cosmic Kitten]

47. Bombing Lybia, wanting to bomb Syria, GAZA, IRAQ, etc

Does NOT improve the live
of women and children around the world!

Take off the rose colored glasses.

WAR does not improve the lives
of women or children...
it DESTROYS their lives.

Hillary has shown no restraint
on issues of armed conflict

[demmiblue]

10. “Even when you have a deep friendship with someone, you have to put the people first.”

[justiceischeap]

11. Skinner, are you trolling?

This seems like flame-bait for the non HRC supporters.

[brooklynite]

19. Isn't it fun when you dangle a string in front of your cat and they go crazy?

[RKP5637]

44. ...

[Bobbie Jo]

102. heh

Gotta say, though...

The man has patience. I mean, just take a look at the first post complete with an insult right off the bat.

[Iliyah]

106. P E R F E C T I O N

MEow

[MADem]

141. Santy Claws is coming to town!!!!!

[Hekate]

170. I was thinking flypaper, but I like yours better

Damn there's a lot of crazy here these days

[freshwest]

372. Or a laser light? I think that's Skinner's speed:

[sufrommich]

21. Seriously? In a presidential primary,you're

going to view candidate endorsements as "flamebait"?

[justiceischeap]

26. I'm going to joke about how some heads will explode, yes

Politics is serious business but it doesn't mean we can't try and lighten the mood here every now and again.

[cali]

22. I think everyone knows where Skinner stands, and I feel about him the

way I feel about most other HRC supporters here: I respect them. I don't question their liberal credentials, and in many ways I wish I could join them. I take no joy in opposing HRC. I wish I could see the progressive fighter and leader they see.

[Adrahil]

85. Wait a minute....

The "non-HRC supporters" (that's a freakin' mouthful), can post thread after a thread trashing her with questionable ""analysis," but Skinner posts an article with a progressive activist burnishing HRC's progressive bona fides, and it's suddenly trolling?

Hmmm.....

[justiceischeap]

116. Hmmm.... grab your tinfoil hat

I must have an ulterior motive.

There's division among Democrats on DU right now, and for the owner of the site to post something positive about the candidate at the center of that conflict sends a fairly strong message to others on DU (some WILL see it as trolling--I don't, I appreciate him showing support for his candidate whether I agree with his position or not but if you're sure of my ulterior motives, go ahead and search out some of my posts).

People are going to get bent out of shape over his post, that's the nature of DU and the primaries within the Democratic party.

Hmmm, indeed.

[duhneece]

370. You noticed that, too?

Of course I don't like many of her decisions; she has made thousands of decisions in the public light, so we've seen a lot of her over the years...mostly, I like how hard she works and what she has done & said & fought for.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

193. 6 1/2 years of virtual silence and now all of a sudden... nt

[Major Hogwash]

396. Yup.

You noticed that too, huh?

[stevenleser]

13. K&R nt

[sufrommich]

16. I expect a lot more exploding heads,

left and right,as she picks up liberal endorsements.

[cali]

40. I expect those endorsements. No head exploding.

That's politics. She's really the only game in town and if you're a progressive organization or politician, you don't want to alienate the person who will almost surely be the party nominee and may well be elected President. You'd be irresponsible not to endorse her if you want access and a seat at the table.

Some of you (not saying you) want heads on the left to explode. I find that a tad petty, but I understand it.

[sufrommich]

53. This is early in the primaries,there's no

reason for Bertha Lewis to endorse Hillary Clinton other than she believes her own words. This attempt to explain it away as a political gun held to her head is insulting at best (and no,I don't mean you either).

[cali]

67. of course there are reasons. HRC is almost surely the nominee

and being an early endorser of a nominee has benefits. Btw, I don't see anything wrong at all in being practical. I also have no reason to believe that Ms. Lewis is anything but sincere in her endorsement. Whatever her reasons, she has every right to endorse . I don't see anyone saying anything about "a political gun" though. I see some silly pouting going on from some who oppose HRC, and as someone firmly in opposition I find it regrettable. I also don't pay much attention to endorsements regarding whether or not I support any given candidate.

[Cosmic Kitten]

49. Heads are exploding... in the middle east and Ukraine

[Orsino]

163. Hard to type with my head all 'sploded.

Clinton is going to get my endorsement, too, but that doesn't make her her progressive.

She's the best in the field so far. We don't have to imagine her a lefty crusader, too.

[BlueCaliDem]

206. She's not a "lefty" but no one can argue that she's not a Progressive.

Well, some will try to argue that she's not, but that's because they don't want her to be president and are politically biased against her - you not included, Orsino.

[Orsino]

210. It's easy to argue against her being progressive.

However, some her views and stated positions do indeed qualify.

[MADem]

332. I think Universal Health Care--back in the NINETIES--was a pretty "lefty" POV.

I think she knows what's important.

[RiverLover]

17. So this is the new spin

& its DU endorsed.

Lovely.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

24. I love the new DU

Skinner is my hero.

[MissDeeds]

25. Agreed

A bit heavy handed.

[morningfog]

31. It is interesting.

[cali]

29. I don't think it's spin. I think it's sincere. And why shouldn't

people, including Skinner, post endorsements for the candidate he supports?

Honestly, I appreciate being able to post my case against HRC here.

Anyone who has a problem with this, is really, really off the mark.

And no, I'm not "brown nosing". I'm being consistent.

It's hypocritical for those of us opposing HRC to whine about this.

[William769]

42. The parties over.

[Bobbie Jo]

75. Well

I just wouldn't tolerate it if I were you.

Skinner is endorsing a Democratic candidate on DEMOCRATIC Underground.

What part of that do you not get?

indeed.

[Adrahil]

87. Jeebus freakin forbid....

That someone disagree with the "progressive" wing of the party's opinion of HRC.

[Cha]

131. Yeah, that a Progressive endorses

Hillary! It's got to be "spin/heavy handed".. oh my!

Other political endorsements of Hillary..

http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/238912-2016-hillary-endorsement-list

[Tarheel_Dem]

283. Cha, are you having as much fun as I am? This thread is a laugh riot!

[Cha]

327. I think so..

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6539945

Tarheel!

[hrmjustin]

88. He has an opinion just like we do.

[L0oniX]

118. RIP Democratic Party

The Corporate Party has taken over. Good luck.

[JTFrog]

121. Derp. n/t

[LanternWaste]

177. Many people are compelled to tell themselves that the mere opinions of others

Many people are compelled to tell themselves that the mere opinions of others are actually spin and official endorsements...

Quite the creative premise of yours though, complete with oodles of both supporting evidence and sources to illustrate the critical thought used to arrive at there. Lovely, indeed.

[Kelvin Mace]

18. Some lines cannot be uncrossed

when you count war criminals as your friends and confidants. you are NOT a progressive "friend" of the people.

[cali]

32. I don't think that's a very good or effective argument- and there are good arguments

against Ms. Lewis' claim that HRC hasn't been Progressive over the past 15 years and hasn't demonstrated leadership of progressive issues.

[Kelvin Mace]

64. Fawning praise of Henry Kissinger

is not an argument against HRC being a progressive? Since when is praising a war criminal a "progressive view"?

Then there is her vote for Bush's illegal war, her insistence that states have the right to prohibit marriage equality, but may not allow undocumented immigrants to have drivers licenses (translations: She is a state's rights advocate, unless it contradicts her conservative views).

And then there is the whole you can tell a person by who they choose to associate themselves, which in this case is pretty telling:

EMILY's List $541,239
DLA Piper $496,700
JPMorgan Chase & Co $446,479
Goldman Sachs $407,850
Citigroup Inc $401,217
Morgan Stanley $374,830
University of California $273,756
Lehman Brothers $253,753
Skadden, Arps et al $220,310
National Amusements Inc $219,304
Merrill Lynch $194,109
21st Century Fox $193,500
Greenberg Traurig LLP $192,800
PricewaterhouseCoopers $191,900
Microsoft Corp $184,119
Time Warner $177,956
Kirkland & Ellis $177,741
Ernst & Young $161,150
General Electric $157,621
Cablevision Systems $154,063

Oh, and yes, her views on marriage equality and drivers licenses have undergone a RECENT change of heart, but excuse me if I view that with some skepticism.

If people wish to make the argument that HRC is the pragmatic, less of two evils, choice, that's fine. But could we NOT pretend her record of on things like Kissinger is "progressive"?

[cali]

71. I don't think it is. I think her record and her weak leadership and unwillingness

to take stands on issues are far more effective. I've posted extensively about all of that and I will continue to do so.

[onehandle]

43. Henry Kissinger has worked with every administration since Nixon in some capacity.

Wish is wasn't so, but it's true.

Did you vote for any President since Nixon's time, thus supporting their confidant, the war criminal?

If it makes you feel any better, he's 91 and is not long for this world.

[cali]

57. Yep.That's a fact.

It's just not a good argument. Alas, I have noticed that vanishingly few HRC supporters will address real arguments and evidence against the claim that she's a progressive or demonstrates leadership on difficult issues.

[Agschmid]

336. Some of us try.

[cali]

369. it hasn't escaped my notice that you do.

[Kelvin Mace]

81. And this excuses it?

Every one else works with a murderer so it must be okay?

I have not voted for any candidate who declared their support for Kissinger BEFORE an election. And there is a difference between "working with Kissinger" as in he is a former SoS and he gets invited to parties, and the boot-licking praise HRC heaped on him.

If it makes you feel any better, he's 91 and is not long for this world.

Not really, he will die peacefully in his bed, unlike his legion of victims.

[Agschmid]

337. Did you vote for Obama or Clinton for their second terms?

[Kelvin Mace]

342. No.

I was almost persuaded by the lame arguments about "pragmatism"' but the lesser of two evils is still evil.

[Agschmid]

343. Well at least you are consistent.

[MADem]

151. He also worked in the administrations of Eisenhower, JFK and LBJ.

Let's throw them under that bus, too!!!

He also served as a consultant on security matters to various U.S. agencies from 1955 to 1968, spanning the administrations of Dwight D. Eisenhower, John F. Kennedy, and Lyndon B. Johnson. Kissinger’s Nuclear Weapons and Foreign Policy (1957) established him as an authority on U.S. strategic policy. He opposed Secretary of State John Foster Dulles’s policy of planning nuclear “massive retaliation” to Soviet attack, advocating instead a “flexible response” combining the use of tactical nuclear weapons and conventional forces, as well as the development of weapons technology in accordance with strategic requirements. That book and The Necessity for Choice (1960), in which Kissinger limited his concept of flexible response to conventional forces and warned of a “missile gap” between the Soviet Union and the United States, had a significant impact on the activities of the Kennedy administration.

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/319464/Henry-A-Kissinger

The people who post pictures of people standing next to other people at official events, and then want to play a game like it means something, are poor debaters--to put it kindly. It's as stupid as the "She voted for Reagan!!!! STONE HER!!!" arguments...!

[JonLP24]

166. I'm fine with that

Throwing them under the bus. The CIA really took off under Eisenhower

he coup and CIA records

The coup was carried out by the U.S. administration of Dwight D. Eisenhower in a covert action advocated by Secretary of State John Foster Dulles, and implemented under the supervision of his brother Allen Dulles, the Director of Central Intelligence.[74] The coup was organized by the United States' CIA and the United Kingdom's MI6, two spy agencies that aided royalists and royalist elements of the Iranian army.[75] Much of the money was channeled through the pro-Shah Ayatollah Mohammad Behbahani, who drew many religious masses to the plot. Ayatollah Kashani had completely turned on Mossadegh and supported the Shah, by this point.[7]

According to a heavily redacted CIA document[76] released to the National Security Archive in response to a Freedom of Information request, "Available documents do not indicate who authorized CIA to begin planning the operation, but it almost certainly was President Eisenhower himself. Eisenhower biographer Stephen Ambrose has written that the absence of documentation reflected the President's style."

The CIA document then quotes from the Ambrose biography of Eisenhower:

Before going into the operation, Ajax had to have the approval of the President. Eisenhower participated in none of the meetings that set up Ajax; he received only oral reports on the plan; and he did not discuss it with his Cabinet or the NSC. Establishing a pattern he would hold to throughout his Presidency, he kept his distance and left no documents behind that could implicate the President in any projected coup. But in the privacy of the Oval Office, over cocktails, he was kept informed by Foster Dulles, and he maintained a tight control over the activities of the CIA.[77]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat#United_States_role

JFK to his credit opposed many of the proposals the CIA & his administration offered, thank god he turned down "Operation Northwoods".

LBJ he is way too easy to come up with reasons to toss him under but the fact that Kissinger has way too much influence on US foreign policy is part of the problem, the man was horrific especially when it came to Latin American involvements. He really shouldn't receive praise as he has a lot of blood on his hands.

[MADem]

187. Well, in which case, why bother?

You can't play the "oh well" and "factor in mitigation" game with JFK or LBJ. Or any of them....and you can't take their decisions out of the environment in which they were made. I don't excuse Kermit Roosevelt's shenanigans in Iran, but they were carried out in the context of a nuclear arms race and a cold war where control of oil was key to hegemony. Who's gonna be top dog? There can be only ONE. If you think Mossadeq was "independent" let me swiftly disabuse you--he would have been a puppet of the USSR inside of weeks had he stayed in power. Those "Russkies" were right over the Caspian. People seem to forget how close Iran and the former Soviet empire was--Iran was their back yard.

It was a "which devil do you prefer" exercise.

All leaders who employed Henry had a choice to disavow or disregard Kissinger's advice. Kissinger did not have powers of decree--he acted under instruction of leaders who had power, and who made those decisions. He came up with ideas, and he carried out the wishes of his superiors. His bosses had the right of refusal. Like Truman said, The Buck Stops Here.

HRC appeared with Kissinger at public events, to include an awards ceremony where she was the recipient and he was the presenter. She has said--clearly--that she disagrees with him without being disagreeable. She doesn't buy off on what he did or how he did it, but she can still be friendly with him, because, as most people know, SECSTATES, POTUSes, and other cabinet officials never really retire--they get briefs, and they provide input to government as they ramble around the world doing their private life thing. They sometimes take on "unofficial" assignments and carry water in cases where plausible deniability can be useful. It's a "patriotic thing."

For this reason, we see people in these small clubs (the POTUS/FLOTUS clubs, the SECSTATES Club, the CABINET Club, etc.) being chummy with one another in the odd pictures. People here on DU try to make something of that as though it means more than simple civility and comity in the service of larger national goals--it's as dumb-ass as saying that Warren is in agreement with all of Reagan's policies because she voted for him twice and his VP as POTUS once, or that she's more GOP than Democratic because she was a Republican for longer than she's been a Democrat.

I can't bear this childish "S/He's DEAD to me" games I see played here at DU. It really is school-yard-ish, and it's not how the real world works.

[JonLP24]

213. Truman was against the idea of an Iran coup

The government at-the-time was popularly elected so whether the Russkies allied themselves or not they were acted in interests of the people kicking out BP & nationalizing oil production which was really all it was about in replacing him with a US & Britain puppet but as far as US involvement it could have been communism fears than a need for their oil following the ARAMCO deal with Saudi Arabia but a lot of that seemed to be an excuse to do something else a lot like "terrorism" today.

It wasn't just the coup though they hired thugs to pretend to be protesters & propaganda

Iranian fascists and Nazis played prominent roles in the coup regime. Gen. Fazlollah Zahedi, who had been arrested and imprisoned by the British during World War II for his attempt to establish a pro-Nazi government, was made Prime Minister on August 19, 1953. The CIA gave Zahedi about $100,000 before the coup and an additional $5 million the day after the coup to help consolidate support for the coup.[11] Bahram Shahrokh, a trainee of Joseph Goebbels and Berlin Radio's Farsi program announcer during the Nazi rule, became director of propaganda. Mr. Sharif-Emami, who also had spent some time in jail for his pro-Nazi activities in the 1940s, assumed several positions after 1953 coup, including Secretary General of the Oil Industry, President of the Senate, and Prime Minister (twice).[12]

http://www.ghandchi.com/iranscope/Anthology/Kazemzadeh/28mordad.htm

Shortly after came the CIA Guatemala coup doing so in the interests of the United Fruit Company & it went on there always allying with the far right over the populists backed by the people in various countries.

Of course I hold the President responsible for whatever suggestions they choose to act on which is why I'm easily willing to throw Eisenhower under the bus but Kissinger actually did the planning of the overthrow of popularly elected Chilean President in favor of Pinochet & this was who Hillary Clinton was praising. If it was the only thing I'd blow it off but there is far more that is questionable & the type of people officials choose to surround themselves around has a big impact.

On the issue of Elizabeth Warren her background was Bankruptcy Law so she was exposed to the type of things big businesses get away with & she has a 90% liberal score for voting record on ADA and in the top 10 of most liberal on GovTrack a little to the left of Bernie Sanders actually so there are a variety of things we can take into account.

I will point it is a club and you or I aren't in it.

[MADem]

218. It was a ham-handed solution to a complex problem, certainly.

They didn't hire "thugs" really--they hired taxis, and they stuffed them full of protesters who were paid the equivalent of a buck or so to cheer on cue. This isn't a feature of Persian politics that has gone by the wayside, mind you...this happens still, today. Do you seriously think those anti-green protesters just came out on their one day off to stand in the hot sun and support the status quo? The poor are easily manipulated.

As for Nazis, the ones in Germany thought the KURDS--of all folk--were the "original Aryans" owing to their great height, slim and muscular frames, and the fact that so many of them are light of hair and eye. Much of the original Persian infrastructure was built by Germans--the roads in Iran were damned good forty years ago, even though some of them went past villages that were barely electrified.

Hillary Clinton's "praise" consisted of a sentence that can be broken down to mean this: "Henry has kept in touch with STATE and provided us with reports of his travels" and "Even though I didn't agree with a damn thing he did or how he did it, I consider him a friend." Now, if you are going to insist that these sentiments are somehow "endorsements" of Kissenger's efforts in any fashion, then I can only conclude that you must also assume that Warren's two votes for Reagan meant that she agreed with his brutal, vindicitive, moralistic and craven AIDS policy. Because, unlike Clinton, she didn't point out any disagreements with Reagan at ALL--she did note that she agreed with his approach to "markets."

See how stupid that sounds? I must say, I think this attempt to smear Clinton with the Kissinger "association" is a huge fail, and it's right out of a playbook written by the likes of Karl Rove. Beneath DU, certainly.

[JonLP24]

238. They didn't hire them cheer

For the U.S. audience, the CIA hoped to plant articles in U.S. newspapers saying that Shah Mohammed Reza Pahlevi's return to govern Iran resulted from a homegrown revolt against what was being represented to the U.S. public as a communist-leaning government. The CIA successfully used its contacts at the Associated Press to put on the newswire in the U.S. a statement from Tehran about royal decrees that the CIA itself had written.[7]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covert_United_States_foreign_regime_change_actions#Iran_1953

Basically COINTELPRO in another country but a lot of the evidence the CIA did in Iran & many other places they destroyed so a lot of what they did isn't known & the Nazis were working for the CIA

---

At the height of the Cold War in the 1950s, law enforcement and intelligence leaders like J. Edgar Hoover at the F.B.I. and Allen Dulles at the C.I.A. aggressively recruited onetime Nazis of all ranks as secret, anti-Soviet “assets,” declassified records show. They believed the ex-Nazis’ intelligence value against the Russians outweighed what one official called “moral lapses” in their service to the Third Reich.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/27/us/in-cold-war-us-spy-agencies-used-1000-nazis.html?_r=0


Another poster in another thread wisely pointed out that we treat war criminals as wise elders (or something similar) so continuing to treat them as credible which Hillary Clinton did but it isn't the only thing there is a record we can point to just as we can with Warren or anybody else with a history in politics.

US diplomats spied on UN leadership

A classified directive which appears to blur the line between diplomacy and spying was issued to US diplomats under Hillary Clinton's name in July 2009, demanding forensic technical details about the communications systems used by top UN officials, including passwords and personal encryption keys used in private and commercial networks for official communications.

It called for detailed biometric information "on key UN officials, to include undersecretaries, heads of specialised agencies and their chief advisers, top SYG [secretary general] aides, heads of peace operations and political field missions, including force commanders" as well as intelligence on Ban's "management and decision-making style and his influence on the secretariat". A parallel intelligence directive sent to diplomats in the Democratic Republic of the Congo, Uganda, Rwanda and Burundi said biometric data included DNA, fingerprints and iris scans.

Washington also wanted credit card numbers, email addresses, phone, fax and pager numbers and even frequent-flyer account numbers for UN figures and "biographic and biometric information on UN Security Council permanent representatives".

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/nov/28/us-embassy-cables-spying-un

[MADem]

244. Yes, they did. I am talking about the crowds that greeted Shah on his return. Those crowds were

paid, many of them, particularly in the poorer neighborhoods. The media did cover these events with an uncritical eye--not just the US media, either.

[JonLP24]

248. I didn't mean to imply that they didn't at-all

I should have rephrased but I meant they hired thugs to do much more as provocateurs -- same idea as COINTELPRO basically.

[BeanMusical]

362. Great post.

[Cha]

69. Yeah, Kissinger got around.. you got something to say about Nelson Mandela too?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

89. Kissinger courted leaders of disparate ideologies.

At his core he just needed to be relevant.

[Art_from_Ark]

134. And Kissinger helped depose leaders who held "unfavorable" ideologies

Like Salvador Allende.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

136. I am not a fan of his by any stretch.

My remarks refers to his desire to be everybody's courtier...Reminds me of Machiavelli and Nixon too...

[MADem]

259. Actually, Mandela sought out Kissinger after he was released from prison.

He wanted to learn the elements of shuttle diplomacy, in order to use the technique in support of ending apartheid in South Africa, and for this reason he sought out a meeting with HK.

Despite the fact that they were pretty much total opposites, save their age (Mandela was a few years older), and had differing views on a variety of issues, they became very close friends and their friendship lasted for years, only ending when Mandela died.

[ismnotwasm]

93. Oh damn!

Shit just got real!

[Kelvin Mace]

101. Yes, actually

Mandela debased his legacy with that hug.

Of course, if memory serves, the context for the hug was Kissinger trying to reform his bloody past by sucking up to people like Mandela.

HRC, on the other hand, wrote glowing words of praise about him and called him a "friend" because she seems to genuinely like him and they are kindred spirits. Given her Iraq war vote, this is easy to believe.

[MADem]

290. Mandela learned the tools that facilitated tne END OF APARTHEID from that man he's hugging in that

picture. I think the population of South Africa would find your "opinion" about Mandela's "debasement" a bit ill informed--to be polite about it.

Learn a little history before you shoot your mouth off.

Don't dig your hole any deeper. People aren't one dimensional. Good people do bad things, and bad people do good things. Mandela and Kissinger were close friends until the day Mandela died.

[Kelvin Mace]

294. I am sorry to hear that they were "friends"

given what a monster Kissinger is.

Are you claiming that Kissinger was a "good person" who did "bad things" or Mandela?

[MADem]

345. They were CLOSE friends.

I don't presume to know Kissinger's heart like you apparently think you do.

I do know that without Kissinger's help, Mandela may not have had the success he had ridding his country of the scourge of apartheid. Mandela sought him out for this help, and that was the basis of their long friendship.

Mandela has said as much, the two men were very close, and Kissinger calls Nelson "a great man."

Do with that what you will--I really don't care. I've got better things to do than play judge, jury and executioner on DU.

[Kelvin Mace]

346. I know Kissinger

By his well documented trail of blood.

If you want to give him a pass, by all means do.

[MADem]

348. OK, fine, whatever. Huff and puff!

Cue imitative voice:

If you want to give him a pass, by all means do.

WTF does that even MEAN? I guess what people write has no bearing on how you reply....




Don't knock yourself out swinging that sanctimony around, now....

[Kelvin Mace]

378. Yes, because having serious problems with

people who are directly responsible for the deaths of millions of people is just SO sanctimonious.



I am very sorry to learn that Mandela considered American's own version of Eichmann to be close friend. However:

1) Mandela is dead.

2) Mandela isn't running for president of the United States asking for vote.

So his relationship to Kissinger is really irrelevant to me at this point.

[MADem]

379. Hyperbole will get you nowhere with me.

Your purity tests are childish and tiresome, too. I doubt you'll ever find a candidate who is sufficiently "driven snow" to suit you. You'll be disappointed, becauase you and only you don't live in the real world, where adults do find that they interact on occasion with people who don't share their views.

indeed. Your existence must be hellish, trying to keep to that unreasonable standard! However do you manage, day to day!

[Kelvin Mace]

383. I have pretty low standards for a "purity test"

but one inflexible requirement is I expect them to not hang with and praise war criminals who facilitate murder and torture. I am sorry you see Kissinger's crimes as "hyperbole". It's good to know that should any Democratic presidential profess their friendship and admiration for Dick Cheney you will be okay with that.

And please, don't tell me there is a difference between Cheney and Kissinger other than the aggregate numbers of corpses.

[Sheepshank]

117. and what the fuck does this prove? They are best pals?

they sit at home infront of a roaring fire and trade and learn international policies? Or that they were gracious at a public awards ceremony? You want that she should pull a Kanye West?

what a total balls up you are implying.... A fuck up of the magnitutude that the baggers employ.

[ProudProg2u]

168. Who had this avatar first....???

Guess I'll have to change mine. Cause I'm a True progressive as my name implies and I don't belong the the "Hillary for hire" group...If I have to change it again we will understand this as a "Hillary for Hire" tactic...fair enough...?

[Sheepshank]

220. Go ahead and change it...I had it first

and you and your self proclaimeed progressiveness can find something more leftie...ok?

[SidDithers]

224. 4...nt

Sid

[Kelvin Mace]

174. Really, so it matters not one bit

that she claims a nasty war criminal like Kissinger as a friend and adviser?

This isn't about her being "gracious" at a public ceremony, it is about her writing gushing praise for him in reviewing his book.

She CHOSE to review the book, she CHOSE to praise him, and in so doing gave her endorsement to a monster.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/09/hillary-clinton-henry-kissinger-world-order

So, what did she say about Kissinger?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/hillary-clinton-reviews-henry-kissingers-world-order/2014/09/04/b280c654-31ea-11e4-8f02-03c644b2d7d0_story.html

She cozied up to a man with his hands stepped in the blood of innocents, and she did it VOLUNTARILY and apparently SINCERELY.

[Sheepshank]

223. "apparently" being the cooperative word.

every single foreign dignitary has shaken hands with and publically said something pleasant about their political opponents at one time or another.

Your talking points are exactly what the baggers use against EVERY SINGLE DEM, who runs for office. They find a point of contact and suddenly everyone is in bed with one another.

[Kelvin Mace]

243. First,

you insult me again by comparing me to Teabaggers, which I greatly resent.

Second, there is a difference, a HUGE difference, between saying nice things about your opponent in the context of a political issue, or a public event and willfully choosing to review the book of a war criminal, fawning over him and praising him. HRC expressed her admiration for Kissinger:

Kissinger is a friend, and I relied on his counsel when I served as secretary of state. He checked in with me regularly, sharing astute observations about foreign leaders and sending me written reports on his travels. Though we have often seen the world and some of our challenges quite differently, and advocated different responses now and in the past, what comes through clearly in this new book is a conviction that we, and President Obama, share: a belief in the indispensability of continued American leadership in service of a just and liberal order.

When you are asked to review the latest tome of the worst American war criminal of the 20th century, if it is not your intent to eviscerate the work and call out the monster, then you politely decline the chore.

[NBachers]

142. I'll never forgive Hillary Clinton for toadying up with this monster. This line cannot be uncrossed!

[Kelvin Mace]

183. Are you snarkily equating Aung San Suu Kyi to Henry Kissinger

or are you criticizing Kyi for her treatment of the Rohingya minority?

[Sheepshank]

214. "Toadying up"? In what way Charlie?

besides this picture (which actually means nothing in the toadying sense) could you please clarify?

[Agschmid]

335. This tired meme again...

[MineralMan]

27. Another in a long series of enthusiastic endorsements

of Hillary Clinton we can expect to see from leading progressives. I think we'll get one from Elizabeth Warren, as well. Once the primaries are over, Bernie Sanders will also join the endorsers, I'm sure.

The real liberal political world knows Hillary Clinton and wants to see her win.

[dfgrbac]

255. Bilderberg

Yeah, I saw a video of Hillery walking into a Bilderberg meeting a few years ago. That's pretty liberal! (???)

[MineralMan]

257. That's what you choose to post as your first post in 90 days?

Really? Uff da!

[zappaman]

258. Bilderberg!

[oneshooter]

262. Jury Results

On Mon Apr 20, 2015, 01:58 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

Bilderberg
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6538436

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

The DU TOS specifically mentions Bilderberg conspiracy theory posts as "crazy talk." It is just that. Please hide this nonsense.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Mon Apr 20, 2015, 02:16 PM, and the Jury voted 2-5 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: I had to google Bilderberg...lots of right-wing conspiracy theories about this...the poster seems to agree with those...hide
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Personal opinion.

[MineralMan]

264. And there it is.

Anything goes, apparently, as long as it's about Hillary Clinton. I looked, and found the section of the TOS that deals with this:

Don't go overboard with the crazy talk.
Democratic Underground is not intended to be a platform for kooks and crackpots peddling paranoid fantasies with little or no basis in fact. To accommodate our more imaginative members we tolerate some limited discussion of so-called "conspiracy theories" under the following circumstances: First, those discussions are not permitted in our heavily-trafficked Main forums; and second, those discussions cannot stray too far into Crazyland (eg: chemtrails, black helicopters, 9/11 death rays or holograms, the "New World Order," the Bilderbergers, the Illuminati, the Trilateral Commission, the Freemasons, alien abduction, Bigfoot, and the like). In addition, please be aware that many conspiracy theories have roots in racism and anti-semitism, and Democratic Underground has zero tolerance for bigoted hate speech. In short, you take your chances.

[PrefersaPension]

409. You're from Minnesota? You should be more sophisticated then...

What? Conservative turned Democrat? What is your story? Bigfoot should not be added with the Illuminati and the Trilateral Commission. Do your damn research, already. Living life with your head in the sand does not do the Democratic part any good! Come on, MineralMan! Think! Be brave!

Be brave!

[MineralMan]

417. Those are not my words. They're from the Terms of Service

of this website. You might want to read them. You can do that at this link:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=termsofservice

[Sheepshank]

418. my god, what an idiotic statement

aren't you embarassed?

to hell with being brave, why not be informed?

[MineralMan]

419. That poster has been shown the door.

[Sheepshank]

421. oh, then I shan't have to worry about a "hide" n/t

[sufrommich]

291. Jesus, that's just sad. nt

[treestar]

390. this is how the jury can undermine the TOS

It's clearly CT stuff for the CS group.

Though I don't mind it being not hidden, as it's hilarious!

I bet she met with the Illuminati too!

[treestar]

415. don't have an interest in it thanks

though why you made that post is a mystery.

[Warren DeMontague]

271. ALEX JONES SAYS SHE BIT THE HEAD OFF A BAT AT THE BOHEMIAN GROVE!

Or maybe that was Ozzy.

[freshwest]

314. Okay, you are out of the doghouse now, FWIW. n/t

[Warren DeMontague]

319. I like to shake it up a bit

any time I am universally loathed or loved I figure I must be doing something wrong.

[jamzrockz]

30. “There’s no one who can hold a candle to her"

I mean really? yea one can argue that she will be better on domestic issues than any of the republican challengers but I can come up with a half dozen people who can win in 2016 that are more progressive than her.


This is kissing ass raised to the nth power.

[sufrommich]

35. So Bertha Lewis : ass kisser. Check. nt

[jamzrockz]

39. Yes with the quote I highlighted

She is a human being after all. Human beings are fallible. Sometimes they kiss ass and sometimes they stick to principles.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

115. "I can come up with a half dozen people who can win in 2016 that are more progressive than her."

Please name them and then supply us with evidence to support your assertion.



Thank you in advance.

[Sheepshank]

124. apparently, "endorsement" isn't what you think it means

This early in the game, if one wants to offer an solid endorsment, this is EXACTLY how it's done.

So a for you special list of "half dozen people who can win in 2016 that are more progressive than her."..please share you amazing list.

[ProudProg2u]

179. Who had this avatar first....???

Guess I'll have to change mine. Cause I'm a True progressive as my name implies and I don't belong the the "Hillary for hire" group...If I have to change it again we will understand this as a "Hillary for Hire" tactic...fair enough...?

[SidDithers]

225. 5...nt

Sid

[Cha]

364. Wow, are you ignorant.. calling a strong independent woman like Bertha Lewis "an ass kisser.."

Chief of Acorn, Campaign manager for Bill de Blasio..

"Lewis was an early backer of fellow Brooklynite de Blasio’s run for mayor when he was trailing in the polls. She supported his runs for City Council and had championed him to become council speaker."

She backed Zepher Teachout over Andrew Cuomo ..

snip//

"That was the message Bertha Lewis, a liberal firebrand and long-time Mayor Bill de Blasio ally, had for the press today long after the mayor made it clear he would be endorsing Gov. Andrew Cuomo’s re-election bid. Ms. Lewis is backing one of Mr. Cuomo’s Democratic primary challengers, Zephyr Teachout, and wishes Mr. de Blasio had done the same."

More..
http://observer.com/2014/08/bertha-lewis-irked-after-mayor-endorses-andrew-cuomo/

She wants Hillary for President so "she'd trod out" and "came out of the woodwork".. what egregious insults to a strong independent woman like Bertha Lewis.

[freshwest]

373. Yeah, but... Hillary... Yeah, but... More CDS. Does ACA cover that?

Yeah, but... Obama... Yeah, but... ACA... Oh, and Hillary...

[onehandle]

33. What!? Another high-profile liberal for Hillary? Unpossible.

I have been warned with glee that liberals won't vote for Hillary, but will vote for 'Not Hillary.'

Over, and over, and over, and over...

Been told at DU. Not so much in the real world.

[Thinkingabout]

36. The same complainers saying the same thing over and over, cognitive dissonance does not change

The fact Hillary is experienced and capable.

[ibewlu606]

38. What?

Talk about cognitive dissonance! Face it, she's a Wall St. hack and could care less about "everyday Americans".

[Sheepshank]

137. In what way Charlie?

[ProudProg2u]

180. Who had this avatar first....???

Guess I'll have to change mine. Cause I'm a True progressive as my name implies and I don't belong the the "Hillary for hire" group...If I have to change it again we will understand this as a "Hillary for Hire" tactic...fair enough...?

[SidDithers]

226. 6...nt

Sid

[freshwest]

316. Sid, are we seeing a familiar face? Oh, wait, don't spoil the fun yet! You and Skinner, huh? n/t

[Sheepshank]

246. so...did you change you mind about changing your avatar? WWWHHHHYYYYY?????

you are sounding and acting like a stuck record lol

[freshwest]

308. It makes one wonder...

And 'Hillary for Hire' is calling other DUers trolls. Nice. You'd better watch out, Mr. Skinner!

Oh wait, someone already called Skinner a troll for posting this thread. Never mind.

Wonder if the thread will be alerted upon now?

[Thespian2]

45. A progressive who

is best buds with Larry Summers? Can't be done. HRC, like Bill and Obama, appoint Summers to positions where he has the power to destroy the economy...and he never fails to satisfy. Please pay closer attention to the gang running her campaign.

[fredamae]

50. Is This True?

"Hillary's Pick for Her Political Fixer in Iowa Is a Classic Illustration of America's Political Corporate Insider Problem"
http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/hillarys-pick-her-political-fixer-iowa-classic-illustration-americas-political#.VP4QRMWbT2s.twitter

Monsanto?

[daleanime]

55. Definitely, qualified. And I would add capable......

But with her history I don't see her making use of those in support of my causes. I don't see her as willing to do what is necessary to reduce the income gap, I don't see her stopping these endless wars, and I don't see her changing our political system while she uses the same to advance her candidacy.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

123. I don't think she's a liberal heroine but for me she's liberal enough.

I also strongly believe she is uniquely capable to withstand the Republican general election onslaught which is sure to come. She is battled hardened and battle tested...


This race is going to go to the proverbial mattresses. She's uniquely equipped.

[daleanime]

160. We disagree, most every one I know.....

recoils at the notion of another Clinton/Bush election cycle. Also I believe that 'better then the other one' is not a strong selling point.

Things are getting desperate, maybe we should act like it.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

59. I stand with Bertha Lewis

NT

[RKP5637]

60. She might not be the best, she certainly is not the worst, and no president is perfect! We need

a candidate that can win the masses in 2016 and get into the WH. I think HRC can do that.

[MannyGoldstein]

61. And I look forward to the list

of things she's had a lead role in, fought for, and won for the 99%.

[cali]

72. people to believe that she's a progressive leader- despite the mountains of evidence

that she is neither.

There is an uncanny element of "the emperor's new clothes".

[Cosmic Kitten]

78. 1) She liberated Libya!

The 99% in Libya, say
thanks Hillary

[leveymg]

126. . . .and, along with Gen. Petraeus, brought peace and stability to the entire Middle East-N. Africa!

Thanks Hillary and a big shout-out to David Petraeus! (Hope your rehabilitation in Washington continues to go well).

[Cosmic Kitten]

129. See, she is a "champion"... take that naysayers!

[BKH70041]

217. Friends of Hillary

It is my recommendation that you donate directly to the following:

Friends of Hillary
1900 M Street NW
Washington, DC 20036

Who can say, you might have been donating to them indirectly for years and, obviously, I might not be aware of that.

But this is a good group operated by upstanding individuals who provide full disclosure at every level. So give. Give until it hurts. But give.

[RiverLover]

289. Wow...you went there.

[Bobbie Jo]

313. Wow...and you went there?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026315665

[rhett o rick]

63. Is H. Clinton progressive? Yes on social issues. Those issues that don't cost Goldman-Sachs and

Wall Street. But I am afraid that's not enough. She isn't progressive on the economy, foreign policy or the heavy handed NSA/CIA Security State. So while the LGBT community and women may gain important rights, we may all find ourselves unemployed, without pensions, and without any social nets. We have to regulate Wall Street or we will completely lose all our wealth. We must get Goldman-Sachs and Wall Street to pay their share of infrastructure repairs and rebuilds. I don't see H. Clinton taking on Wall Street and Goldman-Sachs.

H. Clinton fails the progressive test with regard to the TPP and let's face it, this "agreement" may well be the stake thru the heart of the middle and working classes. This "agreement" is essentially "trickle-down" with a bow. "Give corporations more power and they will take good care of you."

Sen Sanders is a progressive and H. Clinton is no Sen Sanders.

[raouldukelives]

182. Exactly. For me, it ain't even about wealth. It's about leaving a viable ecosystem.

Will future generations be excited about us leaving them with a balanced budget or leaving them an ocean that sustains lifeforms?
The time for those that have done the most damage, while purposely obscuring the fact they have, to start paying for remediation efforts is far past due.
Of course, I hear she takes the issue quite seriously. Looks as if we will see just how serious. The only efforts with any real meaning at this juncture will be those that cause massive angst & derision in the eyes of multinational corporations and the goals they strive for on behalf of and with the blessing of every shareholder in them.

[Marr]

387. +1

[SheilaT]

68. If Hillary Clinton is a Progressive,

then I'm the Pope.

All of her supposed work for women and children is frequently mentioned here, and I'm trying to figure out how her support of war has benefitted women and children. Or how her friendships with various war criminals and corporate interests make her progressive.

Or has the word changed meaning profoundly?

[Maedhros]

221. Yes. Ask the women and children of Libya how much better their lives are

after Hillary smirked "We came, we saw, he died."

[djean111]

73. Wow! I love it when the hyperbolic violence-hoping HRC supporters come out to play.

Exploding heads? Hair on fire? War in the Middle East not so bad for women and children?
Your candidate likes war as a solution so you indulge in weirdly violent fantasies about non-HRC-supporters?

I find endorsements interesting. Would never base my support on someone else's endorsement.
Also fascinating that we are being asked to endorse the only person who has declared as yet. What's the hurry?

Went to the doctor this morning - traditionally, I hate being there so much my blood pressure skyrockets, but today - 118/68. The 118 would have been lower if I wasn't at the doctor's office. So - no exploding head here, sorry.

[BainsBane]

189. two more candidates announced this weekend. nt

[djean111]

197. The push to declare for Hillary has been going on ever since she announced.

[BainsBane]

202. The push to defeat Hillary has been going on since Nov. 2012

If anyone on this site has worked to make her seem inevitable, it is her detractors.

[hrmjustin]

198. Violence hoping hrc supporters?

[djean111]

201. Heads exploding and hair on fire seem violent to me.

So does the trite eating popcorn and hoping for hair on fire and heads exploding stuff. Ugh.

[hrmjustin]

203. oh come on. you are pulling my leg here right?

[djean111]

207. Those terms creep me out. And the popcorn thing reminds me of the mean kids

in junior high. Or Bevis and Butthead. JMO and all that, it is just how I feel about that stuff. Seriously, does not affect my support for anyone, one way or another, it is just creepy.

[hrmjustin]

209. So you will call out anti-Hillary posters who use those terms as violence hoping?

[think]

86. Hillary is far better than any of the current GOP prospects

but calling her progressive is subjective at best.

[hrmjustin]

90. Skinner the heretic.

[RoccoR5955]

92. Mrs. Clinton may be progressive on some issues

but there are PLENTY of issues where she is far to the right.
I could go on and name them, but I do not have all day!

Just as people thought that Obama is a progressive, the same folks are thinking that Mrs. Clinton is a progressive. Both are not! They are moderates when it comes to ALL issues, and I am being generous here.

[Cosmic Kitten]

96. +1 "New Democrats" are not "progressive"

[NCTraveler]

95. Love it. Great start to a campaign.

Not that she hasn't been campaigning for years. Really a great statement of support. Dems are really showing their best side. Love the heads exploding.

[secondwind]

99. Hillary is a fan of tracking... not a fan

[raindaddy]

104. When people have to keep coming out of the woodwork...

to endorse you as a progressive, you can assume it isn't true.

Hillary still thoughtfully considering her opinion on the TPP......

[Bluenorthwest]

111. So, straight white man does not think African American woman has a right to speak for herself?

A progressive activist is 'coming out of the woodwork'? Wow. Smarmy language.

[raindaddy]

205. My post has nothing to with a black woman speaking for herself...

It's pointing to an obvious fact you are choosing to ignore.

A real progressive doesn't need fellow politicians to endorse her populist, progressive ideology. People already are aware of that fact because of their actions.

You think Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren or Alan Grayson needs anyone to assure us of their liberal credentials?

Interesting how quickly you stooped to imply racism. And maybe you can explain what my sexual orientation has to do with questioning Hillary being a progressive.

[MineralMan]

122. People coming out of the woodwork, eh?

Interesting. She is not the first, nor will she be the last prominent progressive to support HRC. Count on it.

[think]

130. When left with HRC as the only choice. ya, I'm sure they will......

[MADem]

165. "Out of the woodwork?" How about "Out of the Congress...?"

http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/238912-2016-hillary-endorsement-list

House (74)

Rep. Karen Bass (Calif.) — Bass tweeted: "Proud to endorse #HillaryClintonforPresident. #HillaryRunFor our children, women's rights and working families. Join me in supporting her!"

Rep. Joyce Beatty (Ohio) — "Rep. Beatty endorsed Clinton in November 2014. She remains a strong supporter of Ms. Clinton’s campaign for the Presidency,” said a spokesperson.

Rep. Kathy Castor (Fla.)

Rep. Joaquín Castro (Texas) — "Hillary is the best person to be our 45th president," Castro wrote in an email to Clinton supporters in September 2014.

Rep. David Cicilline (R.I.) — Cicilline tweeted his support for Clinton following her announcement, saying he “can’t wait” to elect her.

Rep. Emanuel Cleaver (Mo.) — “I am extremely decided that Secretary Clinton will make a great President,” Cleaver said in a statement to The Hill on Monday.

Rep. Gerry Connolly (Va.)

Rep. Jim Cooper (Tenn.)

Rep. Joseph Crowley (N.Y.)

Rep. Henry Cuellar (Texas) — "Our party and our country need Hillary,” Cuellar said in a statement to The Hill. “I look forward to campaigning for her again and helping elect the first woman President in history."

Rep. Danny Davis (Ill.) — “I would jump off the Willis Tower, which is the tallest building in Chicago, to support Hillary Clinton,” Davis told The Hill in 2014.

Rep. John Delaney (Md.) — "Hillary Clinton has been - and always will be - a champion for everyday Americans, which is why I’m proud to support her for President," said Delaney in a statement.

Rep. Ted Deutch (Fla.)

Rep. Debbie Dingell (Mich.) — Dingell posted on her Facebook page that she “is in” following Clinton’s announcement on Sunday.

Rep. Tammy Duckworth (Ill.)

Rep. Bill Foster (Ill.) — "Congressman Foster endorsed her about a year ago and is still supporting her," a representative said on Monday.

Rep. Lois Frankel (Fla.) — Frankel told the Palm Beach Post that Clinton is “the most ready” to be president after her announcement.

Rep. Gene Green (Texas) — “'I supported then Sen. Clinton for President in 2008 and intend to support and campaign for her again,” Green told The Hill in a statement Tuesday.

Rep. Michelle Lujan Grisham (N.M.)

Rep. Luis Gutiérrez (Ill.) — “I will be happy to back Hillary Clinton. I think she has an astonishing background and a readiness,” Gutiérrez said in August 2014. “If she’s ready, I’m ready for Hillary.”

Rep. Janice Hahn (Calif.) — “Hillary’s running – and I’m ready to support her! Everyday Americans need a champion, and Hillary’s ready to be that champion,” Hahn announced in a Facebook post following Clinton’s announcement this weekend.

Rep. Alcee Hastings (Fla.)

Rep. Brian Higgins (N.Y.)

Rep. Rubén Hinojosa (Texas)

Rep. Mike Honda (Calif.)

Rep. Steny Hoyer (Md.) — Hoyer told The Hill in 2014 that Clinton would make an “excellent president.”

Rep. Steve Israel (N.Y.) — Israel has “long been a strong supporter of hers since they worked together when she was a senator from New York,” said a spokesperson.

Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee (Texas)

Rep. Eddie Bernice Johnson (Texas) — "The Congresswoman proudly supports Hillary 2016," said a representative.

Rep. Hank Johnson (Ga.)

Rep. Robin Kelly (Ill.)

Rep. Dan Kildee (Mich.) — “Congressman Dan Kildee wholeheartedly supports and endorses Hillary Clinton for President,” said spokesman Mitchell Rivard in a statement.

Rep. Derek Kilmer (Wash.) — "I'm proud to endorse Hillary Clinton for President. She is ready to fight to make our economy work for every American,” Kilmer wrote on his Facebook page following Clinton’s announcement.

Rep. Jim Langevin (R.I.)

Rep. Sandy Levin (Mich.)

Rep. John Lewis (Ga.)

Rep. Ted Lieu (Calif.)

Rep. Nita Lowey (N.Y.) — “It has been my great honor to call Hillary Clinton my friend and constituent, Senator, and Secretary of State. I will work hard to ensure that in two years, we call her ‘Madam President,’ ” she wrote Sunday on Facebook.

Rep. Stephen Lynch (Mass.)

Rep. Carolyn Maloney (N.Y.)

Rep. Sean Patrick Maloney (N.Y.) — Released a statement following Clinton's announcement pledging his support.

Rep. Doris Matsui (Calif.) — "I look forward to doing whatever it takes to make Hillary Clinton the next President of the United States,” Matsui posted on her campaign’s Facebook page Sunday.

Rep. Jim McDermott (Wash.) — McDermott called Clinton “the best prepared candidate we’ve ever had.”

Rep. Gregory Meeks (N.Y.)

Rep. Grace Meng (N.Y.)

Rep. Patrick Murphy (Fla.) — Murphy endorsed Clinton in a February op-ed in the Orlando Sentinel.

Rep. Jerrold Nadler (N.Y.)

Rep. Grace Napolitano (Calif.)

Rep. Richard Neal (Mass.) — “Senator Warren has said explicitly that she’s not a candidate. And people would be surprised if I were not on board with Hilary Clinton. I’m real friendly with them; I talk to the former president regularly and talk with her, too,” Neal told The Berkshire Edge in August 2014.

Rep. Ed Perlmutter (Colo.)

Rep. Chellie Pingree (Maine)

Rep. Jared Polis (Colo.)

Rep. Charles Rangel (N.Y.) — "I'm ready for Hillary,' Rangel told HuffPost Live in November 2014. "But, you know, I don't like coronations. I don't see where anyone is gonna challenge her, on the Republican side or the Democratic side."

Rep. Kathleen Rice (N.Y.) — "Congresswoman Rice has always been a big supporter of Secretary Clinton and thinks she would be an excellent president. If Secretary Clinton does run, the Congresswoman will continue to support her in any way she can," a representative told The Hill earlier this year.

Rep. Cedric Richmond (La.) — Pledged his support to Ready for Hillary in January 2014.

Rep. Lucille Roybal-Allard (Calif.)

Rep. Tim Ryan (Ohio) — Offered support to Ready for Hillary in November 2013.

Rep. Jan Schakowsky (Ill.) — Attended a Ready for Hillary Chicago event in June 2014 and posted Clinton’s announcement video to her Facebook page Sunday.

Rep. Kurt Schrader (Ore.)

Rep. Adam Schiff (Calif.) — "Rep. Schiff is supporting and is endorsing Hillary Clinton for the nomination," a representative told The Hill Monday.

Rep. David Scott (Ga.)

Rep. José Serrano (N.Y.)

Rep. Terri Sewell (Ala.)

Rep. Brad Sherman (Calif.)

Rep. Louise Slaughter (N.Y.)

Rep. Adam Smith (Wash.) — Attended a Ready for Hillary event in June 2014.

Rep. Mark Takai (Hawaii) — Attended a Ready for Hillary event in March 2015.

Rep. Mike Thompson (Calif.)

Rep. Dina Titus (Nev.) — “I have looked forward to this day for years, to stand up once again and proudly announce my support for Hillary Clinton as our next president,” Titus wrote on Facebook. “Her time is now and we are ready!"

Rep. Chris Van Hollen (Md.)

Rep. Marc Veasey (Texas) — Hosted Ready for Hillary events in Texas.

Rep. Filemon Vela (Texas)

Rep. Nydia Velázquez (N.Y.) — Velazquez attended a Ready for Hillary event on April 11th.

Rep. Frederica Wilson (Fla.)



SENATE (28)

Sen. Tammy Baldwin (Wis.) — Signed letter in 2013 encouraging her to run.

Sen. Michael Bennet (Colo.)

Sen. Richard Blumenthal (Conn.) — Endorsed Clinton in May 2014.

Sen. Barbara Boxer (Calif.) — Signed letter in 2013 encouraging her to run.

Sen. Ben Cardin (Md.)

Sen. Maria Cantwell (Wash.) — signed letter in 2013 encouraging her to run.

Sen. Dick Durbin (Ill.) — Helped Ready for Hillary raise funds.

Sen. Dianne Feinstein (Calif.) — Endorsed Clinton in a 2013 op-ed.

Sen. Al Franken (Minn.) — Endorsed Clinton in December 2014, saying she would make a “great president."

Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand (N.Y.) — “I am thrilled Hillary Clinton is running and will do everything I can to help make sure she makes history as our first woman president,” Gillibrand said in a statement.

Sen. Martin Heinrich (N.M.) — Helped raise funds at a Ready for Hillary event in July 2014.

Sen. Heidi Heitkamp (N.D.) — Heitkamp signed a letter urging Clinton to run and said in 2014 she would make an "excellent" president.

Sen. Mazie Hirono (Hawaii) — Signed a letter in 2013 encouraging her to run.

Sen. Tim Kaine (Va.) — An early backer, Kaine endorsed her in 2014.

Sen. Amy Klobuchar (Minn.) — Endorsed Clinton in July 2014.

Sen. Patrick Leahy (Vt.) — “I talked to her about this some time ago and said if she’d like my support, she’s welcome to it,” Leahy said on MSNBC’s “Andrea Mitchell Reports” on Wednesday.

Sen. Joe Manchin (W.Va.) — “I don't know if anyone is more qualified,” he told Politico in January 2014, encouraging Clinton to run.

Sen. Claire McCaskill (Mo.) — McCaskill endorsed Clinton in 2013. There were tensions between McCaskill and the Clinton camp during the 2008 campaign.

Sen. Barbara Mikulski (Md.) — "Whoopee, Hillary is off and running! I'm ready for Hillary. America is ready for Hillary. She is going to break the glass ceiling once and for all,” Mikulski said in a statement after Clinton’s announcement.

Sen. Patty Murray (Wash.) — Endorsed Clinton in a Facebook post on Sunday. “I am proud to stand with so many others to support Hillary in her effort to shatter that highest and hardest glass ceiling that has been cracked, but not yet broken,” she wrote.

Sen. Bill Nelson (Fla.) — “I am all in for Hillary and will campaign for her in Florida and anywhere else she wants,” Nelson said in a statement Monday.

Sen. Gary Peters (Mich.) — "I'm standing with @HillaryClinton because she's the middle class champion that America needs," Peters tweeted on Tuesday.

Sen. Brian Schatz (Hawaii) — "I'm enthusiastically endorsing @HillaryClinton for POTUS. She's the leader we need for today's challenges. RT if you're @ReadyForHillary," Schatz tweeted.

Sen. Charles Schumer (N.Y.) — Said Clinton would make "a great candidate," endorsing her in 2013.

Sen. Jeanne Shaheen (N.H.) — Said she is "ready for Hillary" in a Facebook post.

Sen. Debbie Stabenow (Mich.) — Endorsed Clinton in an op-ed titled, "Why I'm ready for Hillary Clinton" in May 2014.

Sen. Mark Warner (Va.)

Sen. Sheldon Whitehouse (R.I.) — Whitehouse sent out a fundraising appeal for Ready for Hillary in November 2014.

[Cha]

171. How freaking RUDE of that poster to say Bertha Lewis came out of the woodwork. It's

nasty disingenuous statements like that.. that gives the "hater" label cred.

Like someone stated the other day.. "in their animus towards Hillary they have become unhinged.

Thank you for posting the whole thing, MADem.. I posted the link to someone on this thread.. I see both my Senators from Hawaii are supporting Hillary already.

[MADem]

190. Yeah. But you know, consider the source.

I keep saying "By their words we shall know them" and that comment says way, WAY more than the poster realized.

The poster should spend some time "in the woodwork" doing the work that Bertha is doing. That would be a useful expenditure of a life, IMO....far better than posting hit-n-run snark on DU!!!

[freshwest]

273. Used to work with ACORN many, many years ago. Majority were AA's. Quiet, steady, effective, expert.

Also humble and open minded, working behind the scenes for their communities. They got out that vote and were the wind under the wings of progressives who made real change. Those were the ones who made history and are remembered, as the members of ACORN never put themselves forward, the reward for them was getting something DONE.

So by all means, they will be dissed here for their lack of self-promotion. They don't get the adoration of GAS and others who are not Democrats. I'd say it is surprising or even sad to see it, but I can no longer be stirred with the well-rehearsed, canned litany of complaints which show that repetition from Bircher sources is an effective tool for the right and clothed as something else. RF 2.0 at work!

[MADem]

275. Yeah, like I said, I have respect for that kind of "woodwork." They help people.

They get things done. More people should go back INTO that woodwork, and do some damn work themselves, rather than crab about what they don't like on the internet, and how they feel about the bona fides of people actually doing the damn work in the first place!

I'm amazed at how much of the bashing litanies I've read here have roots at right wing websites.

[freshwest]

297. Yeah, not cool talking about activists like they are insects, huh? About those litanies:

Another one who is 'more libertarian than anything else' is Alex Jones. Who supports - LOL - Rand Paul for POTUS, followed by another one he says he *really* likes - who woulda guessed - none other than Ted Cruz! This 'more libertarian than anything else' is part of a long running scam on Democrats to create F.U.D.

I stumbled on a view from an ABC story - no kidding and tortured myself watching a video of the imminent 'collapse of the dollar!!!111!!' while Ron Paul was interviewed by Alex Jones in January of this year.

They used the familiar bogeymen, 'federal reserve' evil, 'banksters' evil, MartialLaw© to be declared by the 'unitary executive,' AKA the 'imperial presidency of Obama,' etc. They threw in the now mandatory false flags on every news story, too.

Note, I'm editing this as I go:

They carried on about the banksters (guess who first came up with that name - yes, invoking Godwin) as if they are so different from the evil corporations that are their bread and butter. And they never saw a regulation on a corporation they liked, not about pollution or tax breaks or anything.

And that 'federal reserve evil' thing - let's get rid of the only public regulation of the banks - let's see, who is in favor of that and been pushing it for years - none other than old Charles Koch hisself. But then, they're a Koch creation. And their fans are useful tools.

Then Paul and Jones proceeded to blow all the dog whistles!

They explained how the riots that will cause 'MartialLaw©,' will be because of the 'inner city' people who just happen to be poor (and *cough* black people, but they were smart enough to not say it directly, 'cause they're not racist, you know!) Paul said it's because they have 'an entitlement mentality' and want 'welfare.' Not kidding me.

All said with that oh, so familiar Clive Bundy 'Let me tell you about the Negro' tone. *winkwink* Oh, yeah, true voice of progressives!

Then they bloviated about the events in Ferguson, without bringing up the death of Michael Brown, huh. You'd think they'd have mentioned his name...

And how the protestors (who just so happened to be - uh - black, but don't mention that) had burnt down businesses and not respected property rights as they 'didn't understand the 2nd amendment there' and did it because they were incited by 'race baiters,' that is Sharpton (specifically mentioned as 'how could anyone think he represents anyone?') and unsaid miscreants like Obama, Holder, Democrats, etc. No, let's not bring up Michael Brown's name. And where, pray tell, are they when whites go on a rampage?

It's always *crickets* or *false flag* if white people do it. And they are for personhood laws (against the rights of women over their bodies), eliminating public schools as 'indoctrination centers' as Bircher literature says, Social Security, rights for immigrants, gays and for church schools and theoracy, and all that uber progressive stuff!

Paul really gets on my last nerve when he gets that smarmy tone and starts talking that shit. Black people aren't really progressive, and don't know what they are talking about, is what we can take away from this thread here... BTW, that's not racist!

And it got worse from there...

Needless to say we've got so many Libertarians, like Bryan Fischer, Rand Paul (both 'concerned' about teh gay) and the old standbys. I see things with themes to appeal to liberals and Democrats, or make them outraged. When you follow the links, they all go to websites like 'Reason.'

Ain't fooling me. None of 'em.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026535107#post14

I looked it up because Paul was warning 'seniors' to look out for a disastrous change about the devastation to hit this year and change everyone's lives, so that 'seniors and anyone who lives on government assistance' will be hurt. They must be prepared!

All caused by Obama, the federal reserve, banksters, etc. That rumor is that it will hit in the month of September. Old Paul was just so *concerned* about seniors - but he must NOT be listening to what HIS party is doing right now! Who's kidding who here?

So much deflection in all this canned bullshit. I can tell what some posters are hearing from their buzz words. The Bilderbergers, the all encompassing evil of those rich guys! Except these are evil rich guys, not like their heroes who love all the poors (well not quite) so much, so get out and go vote for Rand Paul! Or Ted Cruz!

The mind of a person who can hold together the idea that Paul cares about seniors, as that was how it was billed on the ABC website while supporting 'Throw Granny under the bus' Paul Ryan and 'All disabled people are lazy' Rand Paul and 'Their wealth should be taken from and given to the Righteous' Ted Cruz at once, is mindboggling.

The Pauls won't even say the word Democrat, and Alex ALWAYS says the word with a SNEER. This is subliminal manipulation at its worst, where people don't recognize it while the demagogues wave the shiny in front of them. And facts do no good in these arguments, because it's talking to a cult. Don't you just love the 'facts' without links posts, LOL.

[MADem]

311. General election season can't come soon enough!

It's getting to the point where the subtlety (such as it was) is going out the window!

[Cha]

323. Yeah, they try and marginalize anyone who endorses Hillary.. what will they do

if/when Elizabeth Warren does? Call her something that comes out of the woodwork, too.. like the Progressive Bertha Lewis?

Their debate tactics are so playground bully .

You saw the list that MADem has of all the Dems who are supporting Hillary so far? Both my Senators from Hawaii.. Patty Murray, Patrick Leahy among many more.

The "subliminal message" I get from rand paul is that he sneers a lot.

[raindaddy]

208. You're Ignoring The Point.

A real progressive doesn't need another politician assuring us of her progressive credentials.
Probably because they're standing up to Wall Street instead of being paid thousand of dollars to tell them how unfairly they're being treated.

[Hekate]

219. You're missing the point by a mile. Early endorsements are the most valuable. Someone with none...

Someone who has no endorsements is not going to win even a race for dog catcher.

[MADem]

231. Like I said just below, Senator Warren was grateful for a panoply of endorsements, including that of

President Bill Clinton. She was so grateful for it that she highlighted it on her web page.

[Hekate]

296. When a new candidate appears locally, I check to see who's endorsing them....

It gives me a good idea of what kind of thinking the new person has, and is an element in my decision to donate or vote.

Same with national candidates: I don't know any of them personally, the way I do locals, but I do know that ACORN was doing good work before the GOP unjustly took it down, and I know Warren is a progressive voice, and it all adds up.

[MADem]

331. Ab-so-LUTE-ly!!!!!!!!!

If Mitt Romney or Charlie Baker is endorsing a MA candidate, run AWAY.

If Ed Markey or John Kerry or Liz Warren or Deval Patrick is endorsing a candidate, pull up a chair and listen.

I mean, come on--we know this is just plain old LOGIC. Can't see how or why anyone would argue the point!!

[MADem]

230. Who says? You? That's just hilarious. YOU're doing just that!

You are sadly UNCLEAR on the concept. You do realize that politicians do not WIN without endorsements?

Warren didn't turn her back on all the endorsements she got in her Senate race....I know. I worked for her.

Deval Patrick endorsed her: http://elizabethwarren.com/video/elizabeth-warren-for-ma-gov-deval-patrick-endorsement

BILL CLINTON endorsed her--he even did robo-calls for her: http://elizabethwarren.com/video/elizabeth-warren-for-ma-a-message-from-president-bill-clinton

Oh, hell, let's just cut the crap, and list ALL of the ENDORSEMENTS that Warren got in her Senate race--those endorsement that you're claiming she "didn't need." I think the one "ignoring the point" is you--here, have a nice time going through this rather lengthy list:

Politicians
Barack Obama, President of the United States[173]
Bill Clinton, former President of the United States[174]
John Kerry, U.S. Senator (D-MA)[175]
Al Franken, U.S. Senator (D-MN)[176]
Bernie Sanders, U.S. Senator (I-VT)[177]
Jeanne Shaheen, U.S. Senator (D-NH)[178]
Barbara Mikulski, U.S. Senator (D-MD)[179]
Russ Feingold, former U.S. Senator (D-WI)[180]
Bill Bradley, former U.S. Senator (D-NJ)[181]
Max Cleland, former U.S. Senator (D-GA)[182]
Deval Patrick, Governor of Massachusetts[183]
Michael Dukakis, former Governor of Massachusetts[184]
Tim Murray, Lieutenant Governor of Massachusetts[185]
Howard Dean, 2004 Presidential Candidate and former Governor of Vermont and Chairman of the DNC[186]
John Olver, member of the U.S. House of Representatives from Massachusetts[187]
Richard Neal, member of the U.S. House of Representatives from Massachusetts[188]
Jim McGovern, member of the U.S. House of Representatives from Massachusetts[189]
Barney Frank, member of the U.S. House of Representatives from Massachusetts[190]
Niki Tsongas, member of the U.S. House of Representatives from Massachusetts[191]
Rosa DeLauro, member of the U.S. House of Representatives from Connecticut[188]
John Lewis, member of the U.S. House of Representatives from Georgia[192]
Patrick J. Kennedy, former U.S. Representative from Rhode Island and son of Ted Kennedy[193]
Thomas Menino, Mayor of Boston[194]
Setti Warren, Mayor of Newton[19]
Kimberley Driscoll, Mayor of Salem[195]
Carolyn Kirk, Mayor of Gloucester[196]
Joseph Curtatone, Mayor of Somerville[195]
James Fiorentini, Mayor of Haverhill[195]
Thatcher W. Kezer III, Mayor of Amesbury[195]
David Narkewicz, Mayor of Northampton[197]
Patrick O. Murphy, Mayor of Lowell[198]
Gary Christenson, Mayor of Malden[199]
William Scanlon, Jr., Mayor of Beverly[200]
Michael J. McGlynn, Mayor of Medford[201]
Michael A. Tautznik, Mayor of Easthampton[197]
Stephen Zanni, Mayor of Methuen[202]
Domenic Sarno, Mayor of Springfield[203]
Alex Morse, Mayor of Holyoke[204]
Jonathan Mitchell, Mayor of New Bedford[205]
Joseph Petty, Mayor of Worcester[185]
Joseph C. O'Brien, former Mayor of Worcester[206]
John B. Anderson, former Mayor of Worcester[206]
Paul Mullaney, former Mayor of Worcester[206]
Raymond Mariano, former Mayor of Worcester[206]
Bill Manzi, former Mayor of Methuen[202]
Sharon Pollard, former Mayor of Methuen[202]
Therese Murray, President of the Massachusetts Senate, Plymouth and Barnstable District[195]
Stan Rosenberg, President Pro Tempore of the Massachusetts Senate, Hampshire and Franklin District[197]
Robert DeLeo, Speaker of the Massachusetts House of Representatives, 19th Suffolk District[195]
Tom Conroy, State Representative, 13th Middlesex District[207]
Ellen Story, State Representative, 3rd Hampshire District[197]
John Scibak, State Representative, 2nd Hampshire District[197]
Kamala Harris, Attorney General of California[208]
Kathleen Sebelius, U.S. Secretary of Health and Human Services and former Governor of Kansas[209]
Sheila Bair, Republican former Chair of the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation[210]
Robert Garvey, Sheriff of Hampshire County[197]
David E. Sullivan, District Attorney of Northwestern District of Hampshire and Franklin Counties[197]
Alan Khazei, social entrepreneur[211]
James Coyne King, corporate lawyer[212]
Labor unions
Professional Fire Fighters of Massachusetts[213]
Massachusetts Nurses Association[214]
National Education Association[215]
Massachusetts Service Employees International Union[216]
Massachusetts AFL-CIO[217]
United Auto Workers[218]
Religious leaders
Bob Massie, priest, author, and social activist[211]
Archbishop Timothy Paul Baymon, President of the Council of Churches of Greater Springfield[219]
Reverend Talbert Swan, President of the Springfield NAACP[219]
Reverend Jeffrey Brown, co-founder and Executive Director of the Boston TenPoint Coalition[220]
Reverend Eugene Rivers, co-founder of the Boston TenPoint Coalition[220]
Newspapers
The Boston Globe[221]
The Harvard Crimson[222]
The Standard-Times[223]
The Republican[224]
The Sun Chronicle[225]
The MetroWest Daily News[226]
The Berkshire Eagle[227]
Celebrities and prominent individuals
Joseph P. Kennedy III, candidate for the U.S. House of Representatives from Massachusetts[228]
Cher, singer and actress[229]
Ben Affleck, actor[230]
Jennifer Garner, actress[230]
Caroline Kennedy, daughter of John F. Kennedy[231]
Sandra Fluke, Women's rights activist[232]
Bruce Springsteen, singer[233]
James Taylor, singer[234]
Edward M. Kennedy, Jr., investment banker and son of Ted Kennedy[235]
Organizations
Sierra Club[236]
Clean Water Action[236]
Planned Parenthood[237]
National Organization for Women[238]
Human Rights Campaign[239]
EMILY's List[240]
Massachusetts Credit Union League[241]

[raindaddy]

234. I'm Not Talking About "Endorsements"

I'm talking about the false claim that third way Hillary Clinton is a progressive.

[MADem]

236. Yes you were. Sorry, you're not going to pivot and change the subject like that.

A real progressive doesn't need another politician assuring us of her progressive credentials.

Those are YOUR words, and in response, I provided you with a list of "other politicians" who assured my Senator of her credentials. She gladly accepted those assurances, too, and even put a number of the BIG ones (like Bill Clinton's) up on her web page.

But hey...whatever.

[raindaddy]

266. There's a diiference between endorsing Hillary for President and

trying to convince people Hillary Clinton is a progressive. The first is an opinion. If someone thinks she'll make a good president and want's to endorse her that their opinion.

Trying to convince people Hillary's a progressive simply isn't true. There's a track record that simply doesn't support that.

Curious as how hard you're going to work pretending you don't understand that simple distinction.

[MADem]

268. You were dissing the concept of endorsements, and I'm not the only one who saw that.

But hey, backpedal all you'd like. I'm not buying it. I saw what you said--I even quoted you.

[raindaddy]

277. Here's exactly what I wrote...

"When people have to keep coming out of the woodwork...
to endorse you as a "progressive", you can assume it isn't true."

How is that a general diss of the concept of endorsements? I specifically said, as a PROGRESSIVE!

[MADem]

285. Yeah, whatever--I read what you wrote and quoted you. Now run along and have a real nice day.

We see what you're doing, and I'm not buying what you're trying to sell.

Amazing how prolific you've been recently--just find your password after all these years, is that it? Raindaddy??

[freshwest]

280. THIS endorsement from ACORN put a smile on my face, tears in my eyes and filled my heart with joy.

I trust this woman to know what a progressive is, as they were a huge factor in the progressive legislation of the seventies that it's likely some here know nothing about. Also they had skin in the game and were very serious.

I will not forget the rightwing's plot, their engineered destruction of ACORN by lies, as a major slap in the faces of the minorities and poor that were in desperate need of a voice in local, state and national politics. They were and are, damn good people, far better than the media gadflys and Bircher heros whose faux ideology is touted here daily.

The shrill opposition to Democrats and the outright dismissal, verging on denial of the rights of women and all minorities and the poor, disabled and otherwise discriminated against by the powerful and those who focus on money alone is becoming tiresome.

That is not progressive and they are not. This just keeps on going on here and it's a shame that we are wasting time arguing with them. I'm going to quote Bain's Bane again:

Dismissing the rights and concerns of people of color and women is reactionary. It is way more reactionary than Third Way. There is nothing progressive or liberal about it, and I don't consider people who do so to be leftists. Period.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025216329#post457

[Hekate]

298. +1

[zappaman]

239. Yeah you were.

Might want to stop digging...

[sheshe2]

241. Bravo!

Thank you MADem

[MADem]

245. You know me...I love me some facts!!! nt

[sheshe2]

251. I do know you...

That's why I love your posts....facts! You are a true master in how you present them.

[raindaddy]

276. You love you some facts?? OK, here's you some facts!

Hillary the progressive...
Voted to attack Iraq insisting WMD was an undisputed fact
$200,000 speeches to Goldman Sachs
She voted for the Patriot Act twice
She supported the Keystone pipeline.
She supports fracking
She's a hawk
She refuses to offer an opinion on the TPP
just to list a few.....

Those might be considered progressive positions by today's 3rd Way Dem Party's moderate to right leaning standards but
they're not traditional liberal Democratic positions.

[MADem]

281. Yeah, tell us all about how some politicians don't need endorsements again....!!!

Someone's engaging in a fit of pique, it would seem.

[hrmjustin]

175. How dare she have an opinion different from yours.

[Agschmid]

339. "Out of the woodwork"

[99Forever]

109. That's an opinion alright.

[JaneyVee]

112. YASSS! KNR!

[whatchamacallit]

139. Oh WOW...

[ProudProg2u]

143. Hillary is "Absolutely" NOT a progressive..

The "Hillary for Hire" group are however, well intended people who are being used to promote the agenda that inevitably help the 1 % . This is exactly how it works. The "Marks" never knew what hit them . A great salesperson can sell you a "Dirty diaper" until you take it home in your car and it begins to smell then you wonder "What the hell was I thinking" .. here we have a unprecedented (no pun) ..clear view of who she has been involved with (Banksters) and her and her husbands past.

[stonecutter357]

153. is my check in the mail yet?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

154. ...

[think]

157. Is that what a blank check from Goldman Sachs looks like?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

158. It's the check I got from Social Services.

[zeemike]

148. Well as for me I don't want a "fierce fighter"

This is not a boxing match, it is a fight for the control of our democrocy...and I the only we can win is with intelligence and a real progressive populist movement.
The combative jargon makes me less likely to support her not more...because I am sick of that kind manipulation with that kind of jargon.

But that is just me.

[Bluenorthwest]

199. That's very interesting, I also dislike the combat, boxing match jargon but yesterday it as an

opponent of Hillary's who was saying the whole world is like a boxing match, demanding that DU has two binary sides.
I suggested that those who regularly say they see the world as a boxing match would predictably see DU as a boxing match.
He told me I was 'upset' and needed to order some pay for view boxing match. Said Jesus and Moses also say all life is a boxing match. He approached my suggestion that life might be a dance as if I had punched him in the face.
Life's a banquet and most poor suckers are starving to death.
I support Sanders, but I have no need for martial or violent language toward political rivals.

[zeemike]

212. Those are all focus group tested words.

Designed to evoke emotional responses...and the use of them to manipulate people goes way back to Edward Berneys, the creator of modern propaganda, now called Public Relations.

[stupidicus]

152. the opinion of one does not truth/reality make

it just gives the enamored license to talk about heads exploding like it does, which is a poor substitute for explaining away her corporatist war hawkishness, etc, that makes it laughable to many.

Secondly, of what value is her having survived with only the respect and admiration of Bertha to show for it, the rejection of Hillarycare? As I recall, she's opposed to something really "progressive" like UHC, so what are we really talking about here -- its use as a measure as to the stiffness of her spine and resolve as the next repub whippingperson?

[zappaman]

167. Sorry, but I saw a pic of Hillary shaking hands with someone I don't like.

So, she'll never ever ever ever EVER get my vote!

[PeaceNikki]

194. Plus her hair was atrocious in 1993. I'm OUT!

[MADem]

232. And BOOM! goes the dynamite--that's a summation if I've ever seen one!

Comment: Priceless.

Picture: Even More Priceless!!!

For the WIN, you!!!!

[Cali_Democrat]

253. LOL. nt

[leftofcool]

265. LOL!

[DCBob]

169. Nice endorsement. She is indeed a fierce fighter and probably the most qualified of any candidate..

in recent history. I have never been a big Hillary fan but I am hopeful she will be the progressive leader we need once elected.

[hrmjustin]

178. Jeez reading the responses you get the sense that you weren't allowed to have an opinion.

[SpankMe]

185. Hillary will swing slightly left after she's elected.

She move even more left after she's re-elected.

Many will bitch here on DU about Hillary being no Warren or Sanders. But, she's probably the most electable Democrat who'll enter the race this cycle, and she better than ANY Republican.

A Republican president with a Republican House, Senate and Supreme Court would be a shock for this country almost as severe as the civil war was. If it happens, get ready to move back to the 1840's for at least a generation.

[DCBob]

200. I think so too.

In particular I think her war hawkishness is more political than reality. I think she thinks as a woman she's need to sound like she has the cajones to pull the trigger when needed. Once elected I suspect she will be more dovish than she is appears now.

[Feron]

260. That's what was said about Obama..

And then the excuses rolled in when he took a big step to the right.

Fool me once...

And Hillary is a right-wing Dem. She isn't going to lean to the left if she is elected.

Read this article and break the cycle:

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/campaign-2016-hillary-clintons-fake-populism-is-a-hit-20150416

[CoffeeCat]

196. This is nothing more than campaign strategy...

Last edited Mon Apr 20, 2015, 04:50 PM - Edit history (1)

Trod out a few Progressives who are willing to say that Hillary is Progressive too.

If she truly was a Progressive, she wouldn't need to work so hard to convince us that she is.

Do you think Berne Sanders or Elizabeth Warren would need to strategically market themselves as Progressives, as part of an overall campaign strategy? No. We know they are Progressives by their votes and their words.

I find these kinds of tactics insulting and irritating.

We are not children who cannot see and understand for ourselves--what Hillary Clinton is about. Marketing tactics, no matter how exciting, don't trump reality.

[Feron]

261. I agree.

You'd think that people wouldn't keep falling for the same song and dance over and over again..

[MissDeeds]

303. Very well said

[NorthCarolina]

333. ^^^THIS^^^

[cui bono]

405. Good point. n/t

[NYC Liberal]

428. You don't seem to understand that the entire purpose of a political campaign IS marketing.

That's what a campaign is; it's not like marketing — it is.

The purpose of a campaign is to convince people to vote for you. I.e., market yourself (and your ideas).

So yes, Warren and Sanders absolutely WOULD "strategically market themselves as Progressives." That's exactly what they would do. And that would include marketing their records.

[samsingh]

215. thank you for posting this.

[coyote]

222. Watch what Hillary does, not what she says

Like Obama's change you can believe in. I'll even quote George the lessor, "fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice....<dumbfounded pause>.... can't fool me again."

[stage left]

249. She is easily more progressive

Than any Republican on offer.

[MellowDem]

250. I find selling Hillary as a progressive to be distasteful...

At least be honest with me when promoting the corporatist establishment candidate as the only option.

Most everything about her "progressive" side is fake, insincere, and manufactured.

Just be honest; she's the lesser of two evils, and a really depressing symbol of the state of our democracy.

A Hillary/Jeb matchup might as well be the same as Clinton/Bush of years before, a choice of two corporatists.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

252. I stand with Hillary and Skinner, the pillars of our party

NT

[Joe Turner]

256. The only thing she will fight for as president

is the further expansion of corporate powers and, like Obama, throw crumbs to the masses. If you ever want to figure out how a candidate will be in office you have to look at who funds their campaigns. And on a different track...Hillary is just an awful campaigner. If Hillary is nominated she will most likely lose for 3 huge reasons. 1) She does not connect well with people, 2) She has a long history of scandals that can be exploited endlessly by republicans and 3) She has no economic platform to run on unless she decides to bite the hand that feeds her campaign...and that won't happen. Honestly, HRC supports are going to have to get their head out of the sand.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

267. Yet she crushes all her presumptive Republican opponents in the polls

This is the point where I am told to ignore the polls because they are not dispositive or it's too early and instead should rely on the value laden analysis of a random internet poster...

[totodeinhere]

272. Much of her support in the polls comes from name recognition.

Whether that will be enough to prop her up in the long run remains to be seen.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

274. No dispute from me. Nothing is inevitable

But I wouldn't trade our hand for the Republicans hand. We have an electorate that just needs to be tapped. They have to cobble out one. That might be a mountain too high, fingers crossed.

[totodeinhere]

278. I was referring to Clinton's support for the nomination among Democrats.

I think that any major Democrat will beat the Republican candidate in 2016. So if that is true why not nominate the most progressive candidate available rather than putting up a candidate whose progressive credentials are questioned by many?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

286. Nobody is preventing anybody from running

The fact she apparently has cleared the field speaks to her political acumen. It is virtually unprecedented for a non-incumbent.

[treestar]

307. Why do you think that?

What votes has she made in the Senate or actions has she taken as SOS that lead you to believe she will "expand corporate powers?" Where has she supported anything that leads to that determination? Is it the TPP alone?

[cascadiance]

269. On this issue Hillary is more aligned with Orrin Hatch than American workers!

And this just serves the wealthy elites and not even work forces in other countries as shown how this Indian worker who's interviewed here also rejects H-1B program too.

http://www.nbcbayarea.com/investigations/Silicon-Valleys-Body-Shop-Secret-280567322.html

Until she can show some populist and progressive SUBSTANCE and take the time now to take ACTION to back up her words and speak up against TPP while there is still time perhaps to show some leadership and stop that from going through congress, or explain why she's different than her past positions on issues like H-1B, all this BS about her being "populist" and "progressive" is just BS propaganda. And America is tired of it after getting a lot of it last election that wasn't delivered upon either, and America is still suffering from corporatist dogma that has been in place since Reagan took office in 1980.

[AtomicKitten]

287. "progressive"

https://m.

#

[DemocratSinceBirth]

293. To Skinner, Hillary , and Bertha Lewis

[Hekate]

299. Now that's an endorsement!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

301. ...

[TheKentuckian]

300. Funny how those wanting to use Ms. Lewis were among those who bought the lies and supported

defunding ACORN.

Don't lie either, it was very lonely being among the handful of supporters at that time that wanted to stand by this crucial organization and the phony hand wringing to open support of the shutdown and the Democratic pols that went along was through the roof even on DU.

Some full of shit motherfuckers on this one and the TeaPubliKlans surely didn't have anything close to the votes, it was faithless and spineless Democrats that shot us in the foot there and many of the same folks that cheered it on that supported them doing it.

[rury]

304. Ummm...

[SleeplessinSoCal]

315. Thank you Skinner.

I hope we will coalesce behind Hillary sooner than later.

[Inkfreak]

317. I think it's funny, Skinner...

That people come to a website you created for Dems, and piss all over it and you for supporting a Dem. it's s strange world we inhabit.

[hrmjustin]

320. Well said!

[Cha]

324. Love you for saying that, Inkfreak!

[DeSwiss]

318. The problem with words is that they can be so variable.....

...and imprecise. And worse, they can change to mean the exact opposite of what they meant in the beginning, over time.

Example: When I was a teenager Stevie Wonder published the song- ''Baby, Everything's All Right, Uptight, Outta Sight!''

The descriptive word ''uptight'' at this point-in-time referred to something positive. It was ''up'' and ''tight'' rather than ''down'' and ''loose'' -- so obviously it was positive. Down is negative as is the term loose, as in a ''loose woman.''

Fast forward just a few years and that same word meant the exact opposite. As in: ''Damn man, you so uptight. Loosen up!''

And such is the case here. The word: ''Progressive'' meant something entirely different when it was first conceived and used as a descriptive word back in the late 1800's. As it does now.

For one thing, there'd be no acceptance of anything Wall Street had to say in the deliberative process of policy-making. That alone would have in the past, disqualified anyone from calling themselves a ''progressive.'' Not anymore apparently. Which is one of the primary reasons why I eschew all labels.

- So from my perspective, saying that Hillary is a progressive is uptight........

[center]

[/center]

[KoKo]

322. ...! Yes.

[Ichingcarpenter]

328. Zombie................ what's in your head................... people are dying.

vote for clinton...................... she is for peace ............ yeah right.

&index=8&list=RDJne9t8sHpUc

[libodem]

321. .

[Ikonoklast]

325. At least the logo people Hillary hired got the arrow pointing in the right direction.

To the Right.

[zappaman]

329. Ha! That's a great one!

Did you notice that yourself?

[Ikonoklast]

330. Millions of others noticed it, too.

Biggest "tell" ever recorded.

[PowerToThePeople]

334. Derp. - eom

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

338. Yep

[blkmusclmachine]

344. Compared to Cruz, Bush, or Walker, probably yeah.

[cui bono]

350. What's interesting about this thread is the HRC supporters acting like bullies.

Seen that before with another batch of supporters. Coming in a thread and posting smarmy retorts about other DUers. I don't know who you think you're going to win over with that attitude. But then I've seen several posts on DU that tell the undecideds they don't need them. I truly don't understand that.

Fact is, Hillary is not a progressive. Just because Dems are to the left of the GOP doesn't make them left or progressive. There was a time when the Dem Party was indeed progressive but that time has passed. When both parties shift rightward on the political spectrum the definitions of what is left, center and right don't change, the description of the parties' stances changes.

The GOP is now extreme right wing and the Dems are now center. POTUS is a self-described moderate Republican. That's where the Dem Party is on the spectrum right now. Is Hillary to the left of Obama? I don't really know. Doesn't seem like it.

[shaayecanaan]

351. Bertha Lewis' organisation would have preferred Warren

and passed a motion to that effect:-

http://news.firedoglake.com/2015/02/09/working-families-party-votes-to-urge-elizabeth-warren-to-run-for-president/

Her organisation has also supported moderate Republicans before, but not without extracting their pound of flesh:-

http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article/20130610/BLOGS04/130619980/wfp-endorses-republican-eric-ulrich

Bertha Lewis is a smart operator and always has been, and she generally likes to bet on winning horses, whether they're Republican or Democrat. From her point of view, there is not much point betting on losing horses, and I respect that.

She supported Obama over Hillary back in 2008, so "the most qualified" claim should be taken with a pinch of salt. But like I said, she isn't supporting Hillary because she is progressive, she's supporting Hillary because she sees her as the winning horse this time.

The WFP still has substantial connections with DSoA, who is still pretty solidly behind Sanders should he run. I don't think Lewis will say much more if he does run, perhaps her strategy was to endorse Hillary now just to keep connections open with her in the event that Sanders does go up against Hillary, in which case it would be difficult for the WFP to not support him or at least keep out of the fray.

[Cha]

376. Bertha Lewis supported Zephyr Teachout over Cuomo..

snip//

"That was the message Bertha Lewis, a liberal firebrand and long-time Mayor Bill de Blasio ally, had for the press today long after the mayor made it clear he would be endorsing Gov. Andrew Cuomo’s re-election bid. Ms. Lewis is backing one of Mr. Cuomo’s Democratic primary challengers, Zephyr Teachout, and wishes Mr. de Blasio had done the same."

More..
http://observer.com/2014/08/bertha-lewis-irked-after-mayor-endorses-andrew-cuomo/

And, I'm taking Bertha Lewis' word over yours why she's endorsing Hillary.

[shaayecanaan]

416. I'm very much an admirer of Bertha Lewis

Her organisation is one of the main reasons that the minimum wage hike in Connecticut was able to get passed, by extracting concessions from republicans and democrats alike in exchange for support from the wfp.

However, if you think that she made this endorsement without considering the strategy behind it then you underestimate her. She's not some gullible rube who's liable to get swept up by the force of someone's personality.

She isn't a democrat, she is the leader of her own party which is affiliated with the democratic socialists of America. As such she is the sort of person that Hillary supporters normally wouldn't care for, so it is a bit hypocritical of them to celebrate this endorsement as if there were no daylight between her positions and Hilary's.

You can bet your life that if and when Hillary wins the nomination she will run a mile from people like Lewis in order to appeal to Middle America. God knows she's done it before.

But I respect Lewis' position. Warren won't run. Even sanders might not run. Perhaps no one from the left may run. In that event, she may as well support Hillary.

[truebrit71]

353. Oh Manny, you're so funny.... wait... what?

This isn't a Manny thread?

As Joe Pesci said in My Cousin Vinny...."You were serious about that? "...

Hillary - die-hard progressive yeah, okay... whatever you say...

[eridani]

358. For whom? Banksters? The military/industrial complex? n/t

[Cha]

363. Brawaaa.. they don't like Bertha Lewis' opinion so they try to marginalize her progressive creds..

Chief of Acorn, Campaign manager for Bill de Blasio..

"Lewis was an early backer of fellow Brooklynite de Blasio’s run for mayor when he was trailing in the polls. She supported his runs for City Council and had championed him to become council speaker."

She backed Zepher Teachout over Andrew Cuomo ..

snip//

"That was the message Bertha Lewis, a liberal firebrand and long-time Mayor Bill de Blasio ally, had for the press today long after the mayor made it clear he would be endorsing Gov. Andrew Cuomo’s re-election bid. Ms. Lewis is backing one of Mr. Cuomo’s Democratic primary challengers, Zephyr Teachout, and wishes Mr. de Blasio had done the same."

More..
http://observer.com/2014/08/bertha-lewis-irked-after-mayor-endorses-andrew-cuomo/

She wants Hillary for President so "she'd trod out" and "came out of the woodwork".. what egregious insults to a strong independent woman like Bertha Lewis.

[Cha]

414. "Why do you always think you can read minds? How arrogant... Your insults are "tea baggerish" and

and reactionary...why?"

[zappaman]

422. Why?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=309533

[Cha]

427. I just saw BB's thread about the sock puppets and I thought he was one of them. What an

idiot. I just threw his quote back at him.

mahalo zappa

[Cha]

365. What's not interesting is anyone calling "Hillary Clinton Supporters bullies".. really have to

consider the source.

[woo me with science]

368. War is Peace!

[William769]

388. Friendly Kick.

[ucrdem]

399. Any way you slice it it's an impressive endorsement

and bodes well for '16. It also makes me remember the good parts about the Clinton administration and one of them was a lot of activity from groups like Acorn. If Hill plans to bring back those good times, all the more reason to support her.

[Cha]

426. Yes it is, ucr! No matter how many which ways they disingenuously try to take a dump on Bertha

Lewis.. it only says something about them.. not Bertha.