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TOM TOMORROW: Circular Debate (Original Post) FourScore May 2012 OP
Here's a bit on what Wyden and Udall tried telling us, but can't because it's against the law... Octafish May 2012 #1
No One Could've Predicted© that the Patriot Act Marr May 2012 #2
LOLOLOL! Octafish May 2012 #4
I'll K&R this one too whatchamacallit May 2012 #3
"Honestly, OnyxCollie May 2012 #5
I've never seen Chuckles out on the town without his underwear. hay rick May 2012 #9
"if the President does it, it isn't illegal" rurallib May 2012 #14
For the record, Gov Len Small (R-IL) beat him to it by 5 decades. ieoeja May 2012 #16
I wish treestar and prosense were here to make everything okay again n/t Occulus May 2012 #6
Naughty, naughty!! truebrit71 May 2012 #10
What Dragonfli May 2012 #17
I Dragonfli May 2012 #18
That's OK treestar May 2012 #22
The prerception is about consistency zipplewrath May 2012 #26
Kicked and recommended. Uncle Joe May 2012 #7
K&R (n/t) a2liberal May 2012 #8
That's a really clever cartoon. Zorra May 2012 #11
circular DURec. KG May 2012 #12
oh, c'mon. sensible woodchucks know you have nothing to worry about if you haven't KG May 2012 #13
The sensible thing to do is give up our liberty to save liberty. nt Dragonfli May 2012 #19
K&R Solly Mack May 2012 #15
what's being done is massive spying such that no american has any privacy anymore NoMoreWarNow May 2012 #20
Tom Tomorrow nails it again MadHound May 2012 #21
K & R !!! WillyT May 2012 #23
K&R. Overseas May 2012 #24
Be Afraid, Very Afraid colsohlibgal May 2012 #25

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
1. Here's a bit on what Wyden and Udall tried telling us, but can't because it's against the law...
Mon May 7, 2012, 11:38 AM
May 2012
Senators Wyden and Udall still fighting against Patriot Act secrecy

by Steve Ragan - Mar 19 2012, 17:55
The Tech Herald

EXCERPT...

Section 215 is in the spotlight because FISA (Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act) courts have issued legal opinions on the section in secret. It’s a public statute, but how it is interpreted by the FISA courts, or anyone else in the government for that matter, is unknown. However, it’s clear that the section vastly expands the government’s power when it comes to intelligence collection.

While the government has given Congress details on their interpretation, the data was so highly classified that most Congressional members do not have anyone on staff with the clearance to read them.

In a letter sent to Attorney General Holder by Senators Wyden and Udall, this fact was highlighted, along with a note that if their colleagues were fully aware of the data, they would likely be “surprised and angry” to learn how the Patriot Act has been dealt with in secret. So would everyone else the letter says.

“We believe most Americans would be stunned to learn the details of how these secret court opinions have interpreted section 215 of the Patriot Act. As we see it, there is now a significant gap between what most Americans think the law allows and what they government secretly claims the law allows. This is a problem, because it is impossible to have an informed public debate about what the law should say when the public doesn’t know what its government thinks the law says,” the Senators wrote.

SNIP...

“However, in a democratic society – in which the government derives its power from the consent of the people – citizens rightly expect that their government will not arbitrarily keep information from them. Americans expect their government to operate within the boundaries of publicly-understood law, and as voters they have a need and a right to now how the law is being interpreted, so that they can ratify or reject decisions made on their behalf. To put it another way, Americans know that their government will sometimes conduct secret operations, but they don't think that government officials should be writing secret laws.”

SOURCE: http://www.thetechherald.com/articles/Senators-Wyden-and-Udall-still-fighting-against-Patriot-Act-secrecy/16433/

Is it fascism, yet?

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
4. LOLOLOL!
Mon May 7, 2012, 12:06 PM
May 2012

Certainly not anyone with Real Power™ in the summer of 2001 would do anything about anything to predict or prevent anything, let alone connect a couple of the biggest dots ever to see the light of day standing next to each other in sequential order:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1229509

But, noooooo. And so, there went the Bill of Rights, except as it applies to corporations and their majority shareholders.

 

OnyxCollie

(9,958 posts)
5. "Honestly,
Mon May 7, 2012, 12:08 PM
May 2012

I think we should just trust our president in every decision he makes and should just support that, you know, and be faithful in what happens."

Are Chuckles and Britney Spears the same person? You never see them in the same room together...

I wonder how many socks they have here.

hay rick

(7,603 posts)
9. I've never seen Chuckles out on the town without his underwear.
Mon May 7, 2012, 01:02 PM
May 2012

Of course, when it comes to the Patriot Act, I think we're all missing our underwear.

 

ieoeja

(9,748 posts)
16. For the record, Gov Len Small (R-IL) beat him to it by 5 decades.
Mon May 7, 2012, 02:41 PM
May 2012

Though he argued that, "if the Governor does it, it isn't illegal," then called out the National Guard to guard him from the Sheriff until Al Capone offered to solve the governor's legal issues.

His other argument was that he cashed the tax checks directly into his personal accounts. Since he took the money before the state ever received it, he couldn't possibly be guilty of stealing from the state!



treestar

(82,383 posts)
22. That's OK
Tue May 8, 2012, 07:24 AM
May 2012

BBI, Manny Goldstein and the usual suspects will be around to blame it all on the President.

Why is it any better to always be negative? That's what I don't get. Why is the POTUS not allowed to have a side and supporters, whereas his consistent bashers are always considered OK? Sounds like a double standard to me.

zipplewrath

(16,646 posts)
26. The prerception is about consistency
Wed May 9, 2012, 12:49 PM
May 2012

Last edited Wed May 9, 2012, 03:49 PM - Edit history (1)

It's not about "bashing" all the time, but about giving Obama a pass on issues in which identical or similar behavior on the part of Bush would have been criticized.

The poster is suggesting that you and others are being hypocrytical. I presume you see it differently. I presume you don't see yourself in Tom Tomorrow's comic at all.

KG

(28,751 posts)
13. oh, c'mon. sensible woodchucks know you have nothing to worry about if you haven't
Mon May 7, 2012, 01:17 PM
May 2012

done anything wrong...

 

NoMoreWarNow

(1,259 posts)
20. what's being done is massive spying such that no american has any privacy anymore
Tue May 8, 2012, 07:00 AM
May 2012

-- the government sees everything we do online. Of that, we can be sure.

 

MadHound

(34,179 posts)
21. Tom Tomorrow nails it again
Tue May 8, 2012, 07:04 AM
May 2012

The guy is a national treasure. Sad that he doesn't get more attention.

colsohlibgal

(5,275 posts)
25. Be Afraid, Very Afraid
Tue May 8, 2012, 10:38 AM
May 2012

Obama is actually disappearing more people minus due process than Dubya did.You'll never hear that on mainstream news but you can see all about it at Project Censored online. Once there you can see a lot of other issues covered that MSN won't touch.

We're being spied on all over the place as well, all for our "own good". We keep forgetting what Benjamin Franklin famously said, namely that those who surrender liberty for security have neither. I imagine old Ben is spinning in his grave.

"1984" in 2012.

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