How many are against humans harming and exploiting animals?

[chernabog]

Last edited Sun Apr 26, 2015, 10:35 AM - Edit history (1)

Harming obviously does not include euthanasia to end suffering.

[femmocrat]

1. I catch spiders and release them outside. Does that count?

"Any" animal killing is a pretty wide swath.

[chernabog]

2. Yes it's a very wide swath because it needs to be

[Major Nikon]

49. Do you drive a car, ride on a bus or a train, or travel in an airplane?

How about taking a shower?

[RebelOne]

7. I am against killing animals because I am a vegetarian.

But when bug and rats invade my home, they have signed their death warrant. I had an invasion of rats a couple of years ago because a field behind my house was being cleared to build an apartment building. The rats came into my house and I had to hire an exterminator and he killed 19 rats. They had chewed through wires which cost me over $1,000 to repair the damage.

[Jamastiene]

60. I have an invasion of eastern toe biters right now.

One just got caught in the contacts on the relay for my air conditioning unit and kept it from being able to come on. It cost me $85 to have the guy scrap the dead toe biter out of there. I'm debating what to do now, because I don't want to kill anything, just keep them out of both the house and the air conditioning unit. They seem to not know any boundaries and they are aggressive. They will walk and/or fly TO you when they see you. It's not like cave crickets, who are blind and will jump toward you for different reasons, not being aggressive. Eastern toe biters, or at least the ones that have invaded where I live, are relentless and vicious.

[femmocrat]

72. I had to google that one!

Eeeek! That is a monster. I would have no guilt over killing one of those beasts! LOL

[Cleita]

101. I kind of have the same philosophy. I don't want them invading my space.

I do try to put up deterrents rather than poisons and death traps. I put plants in wire baskets before I put them in the ground to deter gophers eating them. Mice that come into my house get trapped in a non-lethal trap and relocated to empty fields that aren't near any development or agriculture. I do spray the sides of my house with insect repellent to keep spiders and flying insects from coming in. It's not always possible though. I find I have to kill small flying insects when they do come into my house because other than inviting spiders in, there is no other way to deal with them. I once did invite a small spider population to live in the corners of my ceiling to take care of those flying pests, but they wouldn't stay out of my shower or bed, so I had to banish them too.

[Rhiannon12866]

46. I do the same thing...

[Jamastiene]

59. I catch and release them too.

Some people claim there are indoor spiders and outdoor spiders, and to some extent, there are, but I know the species at my house enough to know which ones usually live outdoors and take them back out there when I see one get in the house. They usually do it after the small patch of grass I do have cut gets cut once in a blue moon.

[Nye Bevan]

83. I squish them to death in toilet paper and flush them down the toilet.

Am I a bad person?

[NYC_SKP]

3. Are you including the killing of animals to make steaks, burgers, sushi, etc.?

Killing of animals by others for food?

[NYC_SKP]

4. Are you including the killing of animals to balance ecosystems, prevent diseases, etc.?

We thin herds when they overpopulate, we kill invasive species and insects that become pests.

And we kill animals that hurt us and our pets, like fleas and ticks.

Are you including these animals?

[Major Nikon]

17. I'd really like a list that shows which animals have rights and which ones don't

Otherwise this is just too hard to sort out.

I get that bunnies and otters should have rights, but do roaches have rights? Mosquitoes? European Starlings? Asian carp? Snakehead fish? Brown squirrels? Grey squirrels?

[Telcontar]

5. I am all for killing animals for food

Eating them live is messy and cooking really brings out the flavor.

[Jim Beard]

9. Coyotes don't bother with meal preperation,

they just eat everything fast. On my farm I would notice Coyote or Dog feces that was very fibrous, like they had been eating cotton or other roughage in the lean times. It finally occurred to me the coyotes were not only eating rabbit meat but the fur too! MNo time to prepare, gulp it down before another steals it.


BTW, the coyotes keep the jackrabbit population down. Should they stop killing?

[cherokeeprogressive]

6. Raises hand...

I'm not.

[TheCowsCameHome]

8. Get back to ya in a bit.........

Typing with hamburger juice on my fingers makes a mess of the keyboard.

[peace13]

10. Plants and trees have feelings too!

Is it wrong to plant a seed of corn and harvest it, sending the plant to it's death with the pass of a plow? We are getting down to the question of just what is available for a person to eat? Off hand I would say nuts. They fall and rot if left un harvested. OK, fruit of most varieties could be used but if the plant is planted solely for food harvest it is just as vulnerable as a calf or piglet. Where do we draw the line? Can we pick up an unfertilized egg or leave it for the grieving hen?

[BreakfastClub]

12. That is the slippery slope fallacy. I've had people saying that to me

for over 20 years. It's not a real argument.

[Major Nikon]

14. Neither is claiming people who have no problems with some animals being killed can't have compasion

So we might as well have fun with it.

[chernabog]

20. Why kill one animal but love another?

It makes no sense

[Major Nikon]

24. Do you love cockroaches, tapeworms, and boll weevils?

[Major Nikon]

41. Crickets

[Telcontar]

66. Why do I prefer redheads to blonds?

[Chathamization]

50. Killing animals for "acceptable" reasons; plenty of people condemn dog fighting while chomping down

on a bacon cheeseburger.

[chernabog]

16. Plants lack a central nervous system

So what are you talking about?

[Major Nikon]

22. So do jellyfish

Some plants are able to process information

http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2010-07/study-unveils-plant-nervous-system-illuminating-how-plants-remember-and-react

[Vattel]

43. Plants and many animals are not sentient. Computers process information too but are not sentient.

[Major Nikon]

45. So I can eat the ones that aren't sentient now?

I'm starting to get a bit dizzy with all this goalpost moving.

[Vattel]

47. oh what a pile of shit. Why not think a little bit?

[Major Nikon]

48. You stole my line!

[Arugula Latte]

51. Come on. They lack brains/nervous systems. That's just stupid. Sorry -- not buying this.

[NYC_SKP]

56. Are you familiar with "Fruitarians"?

They won't pick a fruit, the fruit must fall to the ground.

Some are ok eating nuts and seeds, but others won't eat seeds because they are future plants.

Sex for fruitarians must be very boring.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fruitarianism

[Major Nikon]

57. Mixing god and fruit isn't as fruity as mixing god with guns

Just sayin'

[Jamastiene]

61. If you eat the nuts, you are invading squirrels' food stocks.

So, it's really cruel to eat nuts too, if you want to take things to extremes.

[IVoteDFL]

94. lol truth

My boyfriend likes to collect Acorns to plant new trees with, but I always tell him to keep it to a minimum because the Squirrels need to get through winter.

[BreakfastClub]

11. I'm sure veganism is very rare here, although

it may be a higher percentage here than in the general population. I assume liberals are more likely to be vegans. I'm a vegan and don't feel it's necessary to kill animals for food, and certainly not for sport. Even if there wasn't an horrific factory farming system that is the stuff of nightmares, I still wouldn't participate in eating animals. It's just not in me. I think it's some sort of genetic thing and also more common based on personality type.

I will point out, much to my satisfaction, that an inordinate amount of the most intelligent and notable people in human history have been vegan/vegetarians. And before anyone says Hitler, just don't. Even if he was, which is disputed, he was at best doing it for his health, which is just a completely different story. Of course, there have also been very intelligent meat eaters too. But counting Pythagoras, Plato, Socrates, Da Vinci, Susan B Anthony, Ben Franklin, Edison, Einstein, Jane Goodall, Tolstoy and numerous other writers, and a host of other fascinating people among vegetarians/vegans, has to mean something.

[chernabog]

19. I will never understand

Why so many here are opposed to veganism.

[Major Nikon]

28. I'm not oppossed to veganism

I could care less if someone eats road apples. I'm just opposed to nonsense that suggests people who eat animals can't possibly have compassion.

[chernabog]

30. Explain to me how you can

Have compassion if you eat animals.

[Major Nikon]

38. Easy

If humans didn't start eating animals, we'd still be living in trees throwing our shit at each other. Whether you like it or not, you are an omnivore, and as such have no ethical impediments to "eating dead animals" any more than any other omnivore or carnivore.

Your argument is kinda like saying you can't possibly give one shit about global warming unless you live nude in a cave and eat mushrooms you grew yourself while shitting in a bucket and filtering water with an old gym sock.

[Inkfreak]

90. Sounds like a fun retreat.

Let's get a buisness going..

[GGJohn]

62. Who here is saying they're opposed to veganism? eom.

[Inkfreak]

95. Every once in awhile we get an OP expressing moral righteousness about eating habits.

And we're supposed to "explain why" humans eat meat. Pure theater.

[FLPanhandle]

79. No one is opposed to people who don't want to eat meat.

People are against those that try to push their moral code onto others.

Just like anti-abortionists. Don't believe that having an abortion is moral, fine, don't have one. The minute you try to push your morals onto others, that's when the shit flys.

[chernabog]

82. What purpose does killing animals serve?

Other than for ones own pleasure?

[FLPanhandle]

84. What purpose does killing an embryo serve?

Other than making a woman's life more convenient? See? Your's is the same argument anti-abortionists use.

Preaching vegans are as bad as preaching anti-abortionists. They even use the exact same tactics.

Assholes all of them.


What makes you different than any anti-abortionist who is trying to impose their moral code on others?

[chernabog]

85. Pretty simple really

In most cases, there is a fundamental need when a woman undergoes that medical procedure. When a human kills an animal other than for humane euthanasia, there is no need.

[FLPanhandle]

88. Most abortions are not for medical reasons though.

So, why is it okay for you to push your moral code on to others? Can I impose my moral code onto you? (don't worry, I'm not that big of an asshole to try).


You think it is immoral to eat meat, fine. Don't eat it.

The minute you push your morals onto others, you are an asshole.

Your type are no better than the anti-abortionists I despise.

[chernabog]

89. Is an abortion a medical procedure?

I think so. I think it's immoral for humans to harm animals and exploit them. Why don't you? Who's the asshole?

[FLPanhandle]

91. "Who's the asshole?"

Who cares why I don't view eating meat to be immoral? I and no one else has to explain our moral code to you. Just like no woman should have to explain why they want an abortion to some asshole who uses your logic and say "I think it's immoral for women to kill their fetus. Why don't you?"

You are using the same tactics as an anti-abortionist morality pusher. So, going back to your question, "Who's the asshole?".

It's obvious to everyone here, you just can't admit you are no better than anti-abortionist. Both types see their moral code as "correct" and can't accept others living with a different code.

[chernabog]

96. No one is debating abortion

Women have a reason to have that procedure. Humans do not have a reason to consume animal products other than for their own pleasure.

[FLPanhandle]

104. And you are no better than an anti-abortionist

Obviously you are here to push your moral code onto others.

I reject that, so have fun, but we all know you for what you are.

I'm off to have a glass of wine on my porch and watch the water (if you are morally opposed to that to...well, fuck you and your type).

[Major Nikon]

13. Does that include animals killing other animals?

[chernabog]

18. No

[Major Nikon]

26. So I take it you are for some forms of animal killing

[chernabog]

29. I am against humans killing animals

And animal exploitation

[Major Nikon]

31. Interesting argument you have there

If from an ethical perspective humans are no different than animals, then why can't they kill animals for food the way other animals do?

If you are against animal exploitation, how can you possibly support animals exploiting other animals?

[chernabog]

34. How can an animal exploit another animal?

[Major Nikon]

39. Good question

Human:

Kingdom: Animalia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human

[Krytan11c]

53. +1

Zing

[avebury]

15. I am not a fan of killing animals but

can understand it when people need to do so in order to feed their families and it is not for a thrill or waste. What I have a huge problem with are hunters that have no problem with hunting species into extinction. It is disturbing that mankind is destroying so much of the habitats for so many species.

[Drahthaardogs]

21. Is vegetarianism now part of the Democratic Platform?

I am just wondering why you would seem to question that MOST of DU does, in fact, eat meat. Last I checked, being a vegan in no way, shape, or form, had ANYTHING to do with the accepted Democratic platform. I suppose you could back into it from an environmental standpoint, but even that is stretching.

[chernabog]

23. Let's see

Climate change is a democratic platform. If you eat dead animals, you are contributing to climate change. Also, isn't compassion for animals and animal rights a pretty liberal idea?

[Kali]

35. your very existence is contributing to climate change,

Last edited Sun Apr 26, 2015, 12:33 AM - Edit history (1)

extinctions, suffering and all sorts of bad stuff. you go first.

[betterdemsonly]

36. Not all meat items are cows.

You also have chicken and fish.

[Drahthaardogs]

40. I said Democratic Platform

And most Democrats are NOT vegans, and have no desire to be vegans.

[sendit]

25. I am

I don't know what it would take for me to take a life of another living thing.

It would have to be a lot , maybe an animal that is killing a child

I don't know

[Boudica the Lyoness]

27. We should not kill any animal

unless it's in self defense or a parasite.

[GGJohn]

71. What about for food? eom.

[chernabog]

86. Not necessary

[GGJohn]

103. In my case, yes it is.

And who the fuck are you to judge those of us that hunt or eat meat?
Seems you're on the wrong board here, the RW boards are down the hall and to the right where your authoritarian views will be more welcome.
BTW, this thread didn't go quite the way you expected did it.

[chernabog]

105. Since when is compassion authoritarian?

You're not making any sense.

[GGJohn]

107. You're nothing more than an authoritarian by

pushing your morals on others that want nothing to do with them.
Enjoy your stay.

[a la izquierda]

32. I'm vegan.

I try not to kill anything if I can.
But I don't like to preach, except to trophy hunters.

[FLPanhandle]

80. Good for you.

[betterdemsonly]

33. I am not an ideological vegan

I eat meat but do want the farm animals to be treated nicely while they are alive. I would also kill fleas and rats

I would avoid eating a more intelligent animal like an ape, monkey, elephant or dolphin, since I think they self-aware and can't be killed humanely. Furthermore it is pretty extremely easy to avoid eating those animals.

I don't think veganism is natural since there is no way to naturally aquire certain necessary vitamins and fats. B12, Taurine, and Omega3 like DHA and EPA are not available from natural sources aside from meat and fish.

I realize people can get many of those things from supplements but there is also the issue of satisfaction, since Vegans are fighting evolution. If you can do this fine. You have no right to force others to your view.

I think peta's participation in Arpio's torture of unconvicted accused criminals in his jail shows them to be just nutcases and sadists themselves who don't care for human animals. They are also probably creating a backlash against the vegan diet. People who might otherwise want to be vegans will resist now because it was forced on them as a sadistic measure.

[Major Nikon]

42. Forcing or compelling someone to your dietary choices seems kinda assholish

...regardless of which direction it goes.

PETA's efforts quite often seem pretty counterproductive.

[Beringia]

37. I am against killing for sport and also against factory farms

[handmade34]

44. I don't believe

whether a person is for or against killing animals has a lot to do with compassion...

I am a vegetarian... leaning heavily towards veganism, I believe myself to be compassionate and I understand the need to kill animals...

once I quit my job I may go back to raising healthy organic pigs to slaughter for the local market

I also would kill an animal (if I were able) that was threatening my livelihood, another person or myself... and that includes a domestic animal...

so I guess you could say I am pro-animal killing I would rather think that I am a conscientious, caring citizen that understands the reality of the world we live in... there is very little black and white in it

[Scootaloo]

52. "Any form"?

I'm against killing for recreational, sport, or entertainment reasons.

I'm not adverse to killing as a last resort for health or safety issues. Relocation or treatment is a better option.

I have many issues with modern meat production, but have no problem in principle with the use of animals as a food source. This is not a blanket pass - animals need to be raised well and slaughtered as humanely as possible, and the environmental impact of the process needs consideration. I'd rather have really expensive pork chops - or no pork chops - than miserable sick animals killed badly while their waste splashes into rivers unchecked.

And I have no criticism of people who kill for subsistence food, with the clause that they are feeding themselves and their family rather than selling "exotic game" for a profit.

And I have no issue with the (humane) extermination of invasive species, including feral animals, from a locale. I will make an exception in the case that the species is replacing an already-extinct animal's ecological niche (as feral horses do for the recently-extinct North American horses and asses). If an extant animal fills the niche, then the ferals / invasive need to go, however (as in the case of feral swine vs. native peccaries) or if the invasive threatens natives 9as starlings do vs. bluebirds.)

[Travis_0004]

54. I didnt fight my way to the top of the food chain to become a vegan.

[gwheezie]

55. I would kill an animal

I don't eat them. I've had animals put down and been present to make sure it is done correctly. I used to have goats, cows ,chickens and horses. I have a gun. I kept it for the purpose if the vet couldn't get here and the animal was going to suffer terribly. Death is normal.
I'm vegan at this point. Most of my family is vegan or vegetarian. My dad has been vegetarian for over 20 years. My mom rarely eats an animal. My daughter, sister, 2 neices and 2 nephews are vegan. My brother isn't either. I came to it later than they did because I had livestock and poultry on my farm so I thought they lived a pretty peaceful life. They lived among their kind and got to behave naturally. Then me and a goat had an epiphany and they became pets.

[Jamastiene]

58. There are some real shitasses here.

I know that much. I wasn't going to use ignore in DU3, but fuck it. I had to.

Your question sounds like it could be a loaded question though. Sometimes, if an animal is in extreme pain and vets are unable to save the animal or alleviate the pain for the animal, euthanasia can help ease the animal's suffering. To say "any form" means no euthanasia either? Or not? I'm asking. My baby boy had a kind of blood cancer that put him in a lot of pain and he would have died a slow painful death, because he was too far gone when the vets finally realized his condition was worse than they thought. I wasn't about to let him suffer any longer than he had to. He loved me unconditionally. I could not in good conscience let him suffer. There is just no way I was going to put him through dying slowly and painfully. I do support euthanasia in cases like that where the animal would suffer horribly with nothing that can help them any more or alleviate their pain and he was in pain. I'm STILL hurting over losing him and that was back in November. I don't think I will ever be able to adjust to life without him. I think I will always miss him just like the first day he died, but there was nothing more they could do for him and he was suffering horribly. I am still miserable and it happened back in November. I don't think I will ever get over it. Technically, though, euthanasia is killing them too, just trying to do it in a way that eases their pain, in this type of circumstance. I miss my baby boy so bad.

[gwheezie]

64. I'm very sorry for your loss

I've put down many animals over the decade and I miss them all. It never gets easier.

[beam me up scottie]

65. I am so sorry, Jamastiene.

We never really get over losing our loved ones.

Facing the same prospect soon with my boy who has insulin resistant diabetes. He's happy now but it won't last forever.

I wish I could believe in an afterlife but knowing that my animals are no longer suffering has to be enough for me.


And the only reason I clicked on this thread is to see if anyone would handle the op with grace. You didn't disappoint.

[GGJohn]

63. This thread didn't quite turn out the way you anticipated did it.

[treestar]

67. I am against animal killing for no reason

like that Kirsten person did. For sport, like the cock fighting, etc., or for kicks.

I am OK with it for food, hunting, or for self defense. Surely you have no problem with someone shooting a bear that comes near, say.

[Warren DeMontague]

68. I eat meat. I don't feel bad about it.

Meh.

[muriel_volestrangler]

69. I feel fairly certain the majority of DUers eat some meat

and are thus not "against any form of animal killing".

[ileus]

70. I don't kill animals...I may however harvest a few per year.

Spring gobbler season is upon us here. While I haven't put my son on one yet, we did get one almost in shooting distance yesterday morning but spooked it with too much 10yo movement. So we went and caught 4 yummy trout instead.

There's always next Saturday depending on game time, games were canceled yesterday.

[randome]

73. Animals don't seem to have a problem with it.

But I'll never kill thinking of it as 'sport'. And I, too, will catch and release most bugs I find in my home.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"Everybody is just on their feet screaming 'Kill Kill Kill'! This is hockey Conservative values!"[/center][/font][hr]

[chernabog]

76. Animals have a need

Humans don't

[Telcontar]

77. Well, that was one of the most rediculous things I've seen today

Humans don't have needs...hilarious.

I needed the eggs, ham, and bacon I had for breakfast.

[chernabog]

78. You have a want

Not a need

[Inkfreak]

74. You should learn to look at things in context.

That way you'll avoid silly OPs like this. I'm po-hunting and have compassion for animals.

[chernabog]

75. Care to explain?

[Throd]

81. I love animals. I also enjoy eating certain types of animals.

[chernabog]

87. Cognitive dissonance

[Throd]

93. Tasty dissonance.

[GGJohn]

106. Best post yet.

[IVoteDFL]

92. I am

My household made the switch to a plant based diet last year and we're loving it. Besides being a friend to the animals, for an added bonus we feel healthier, lost excess weight, and are doing good by the environment. I've also always been against animal testing be it medical or cosmetic, and buying fur or leather.

[AngryAmish]

98. Secondary products Revolution is bad now?

Ok, I guess.

[Liberal_in_LA]

100. I minimize harming of animals where ever possible

[alarimer]

102. Define your terms.

Hunting and fishing are acceptable practices, so long as the catch limits are followed.

[Telcontar]

108. I find evangelicals annoying in general

Be they missionaries or militant vegans.

[Lancero]

109. This thread is making me hungry...

I think I'll go make a steak, get into a argument with my cat over just who gets to eat the steak, and read about how massive tracks of forest - The home of many animals - are destroyed each year to make way for farmland.