General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsIs it possible the Third Way® is scared of Bernie...
because they fear he might WIN the general election??
If he wins, their ideology becomes irrelevant.
kelliekat44
(7,759 posts)AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Left wing social policies with right wing economic policies. It is embraced by Obama and Many of his ardent supporters.
http://www.thirdway.org/
The 'Third Way®' ideology is ridiculous because the economic policies they espouse, inevitably erode the civil rights of LGBT, women and minorities.
Example: Free trade treaties like NAFTA and TPP which are esposed by the 'Third Way®' send manufacturing jobs overseas which worsens availability of jobs and wages in inner cities, and empower the oligarchy. Handing power to the oligarchy takes power out of the hands of the general population, which erodes civil rights.
If Sanders wins, they become irrelevant.
Go Bernie!!
pampango
(24,692 posts)You are right. Those are certainly consistent with libertarianism.
Since FDR and Truman proposed and supported a lot of international trade and other organizations and agreements, e.g. GATT, ITO, IMF, World Bank and many bilateral trade agreements, I'm not sure that trade is the best example of "Third Way" policies. But they both made sure the the benefits of economic activity (domestic and international trade) were shared fairly through strong unions, progressive taxes, effective regulations and a strong safety net. Progressive countries do the same today.
I think both FDR and Truman would have never supported Clinton's repealing Glass-Steagal (deregulation) and cutting the safety net ("welfare reform" . IMHO, Bernie would never support anything like that.
Romulox
(25,960 posts)AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)By shifting power to the oligarchy. That's why I do not understand those who defend the 'Third Way®'. They harp endlessly about social issues, but the economics they espouse eat away at civil rights. This is what happens in third world countries where the wealthy hold all the power and the population is at their mercy. This is what is happening here with the recent reversals of voters rights laws etc. There is a lot of cognitive dissonance going on with the 'Third Way®' supporters crowd.
pampango
(24,692 posts)in the long run.
betterdemsonly
(1,967 posts)That strengthens the hand of religious groups that oppose Abortion and Homosexuals because there are most poor, and the poor must rely on these groups for help. So yes, the concessions the third way have made to the right, have also hurt the cause women's rights and gay and lesbian rights. Feminists and Gay libertarians are an even more extreme inability to connect the dots.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Cognitive dissonance is particularly evident in situations where an individual's behavior conflicts with beliefs that are integral to his or her self-identity. It's like a catch 22. I am amazed that folks who defend/espouse this nonsense cannot, or refuse to, see it.
Dragonfli
(10,622 posts)hifiguy
(33,688 posts)Republicans who can't abide the fly-eating religulous loonies, left the Republican party and bought the Democratic party, which was largely sold to them by the Clintons and other DLCers. Plutocratic economics but you get marriage equality, in a snide nutshell.
delrem
(9,688 posts)I don't think it goes deeper than that.
"Third Way" as I've heard it defined is more of a strategy than an ideology.
It's a strategy for winning in a politics defined in the most extreme capitalist terms, and where there are issues of social equality that can differentiate the Third Way from Republican crazies.
So, naturally, Third Way accepts the status quo and considers money to be an almost exclusive factor in the business of winning elections.
I think a lot of denial is going on w.r.t. what that kind of Third Way politics is doing to the world.
Even on DU I've just last night corresponded with folk who deny that PNAC has anything to do with the nightmare in the ME.
Is that denial, or what?
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Much cognitive dissonance within that crowd. Their denials come in the form of being unwilling to discuss economics, and always trying to shift the conversation to social issues, which are eroded by their economics. It is a vicious circle they espouse, a catch 22.
fadedrose
(10,044 posts)But I think they fear anyone of gravitas who announces....
Bernie has gained since he came out.....
As soon as some of the others get some TV interviews, their numbers will pick up... Or call a press conference with a rousing speech with lots of people around to cheer...
tokenlib
(4,186 posts)BrotherIvan
(9,126 posts)The Republican nominee will be Bush. Even conservatives hate him and moderates would have to want to shoot themselves in the face to vote in another Bush. Plus it's almost statistically impossible for Republicans to win the presidency with the Electoral College now.
TBF
(31,920 posts)the real fight will be between Hillary and Bernie. The thing is she will be stronger this time after going up against Obama. I will be voting for Bernie if he is on the ballot down here (in Texas we generally don't get a lot of leftists on the ballot).
BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)Makes it easier for a Republican to waltz into the White House.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)I support Bernie in every way, and will vote for him in the primary, but will vote for the Dem in the general. But too many of us are not good enough as we have strayed from *insert the trembling voice of a fundamentalist preacher here* 'righteous path.' Gimme a break, ain't buying it.
To be an Obama supporter is not to be a DINO nor a LIbertarian philosophically or any other way. Nor a supporter of the Paulite and Jones *OMG, the Federal Reserve and the banksters, etc.!*
It is to be for good government in an era defined by corporatist media who play the right and left and where more than the half the population supports fascism under the name of the GOP/ Koch/ LIbertarian cabal that has been spewing for over half a century, anti-government, anti-Commons propaganda until the country is facing a collapse because too many people took the New Deal for granted.
They are in for a big shock if the GOP wins next year. KIss all of that goodbye. And those who are chief on the bandwagon looking for an ultra liberal savior made in their own fantasies, are dismissing POC and women.
And the Democratic Party will lose no matter who wins the nomination if they walk away.
BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)I disagree with the percentage (although I'm certain they'll disagree with me) that half of the population supports fascism disguised as GOP/Koch/Libertarian issues. Polls have shown that a super-majority of Americans are liberal. In addition to very liberal social issues winning even in red States last year, this super-majority support having wealthier Americans pay more taxes in order to pay down the Federal Gov't's deficit, and even a larger number support leaving Medicare and Social Security alone.
Yet these same people still vote Republican. Mostly out of habit, but many out of pure blind hatred of PoC and women - in other words, mostly out of racism, bigotry, and misogyny.
I don't know who I'll vote for in the primaries since I haven't seen my preferred candidate announce - YET - but I'll vote for the Democratic candidate in the general, whoever s/he might be.
When I set out to choose my Democratic candidate in 2007, I had NO idea who I'd vote for. Then I voted for John Edwards. I liked his two-America's speech and I felt that he could be a second Kennedy - before his affair was made public, hurting his cancer-stricken wife and he crushed that illusion.
Then I heard of this Obama person, and began to look into this man who was inspiring so many young voters. And although I believed back then that he didn't have a snowball's chance in Hades to win the primaries (because of innate American racism that's hard to eradicate), I began donating money to his campaign, hoping to give him at least a fighting chance even though I felt that he was just a teensy-weensy more "conservative" than Hillary Clinton to my liking - especially on health care reform. But then again, I was still royally pissed off at HRC for her IWR vote and didn't want to support her candidacy. I'm over that now, as others should be, too. So should she win the Democratic Party's nom, I will have NO problem voting for her. But I'm hoping for a strong "maintenance" president who can carry on President Obama's good work, and that's why I'm hoping VP Biden will run. Soon.
But whoever decides to run, I will refuse to put down or "demonize" any Democrat who tosses his/her hat into the race. It doesn't serve this country nor the Democratic Party to write divisive posts on a Democratic Party supporting site against any Democrat. Instead, we should be writing posts that support our candidates, and explain why others should, too.
In the end, I believe with all my heart and soul, that we should NOT do the GOP's or Karl Rove's job for them, nor make the Koch bros smile as we attack one another's Democratic candidate.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)I just might take you up on your advice and make the last paragraphs of my post - I assume you mean the paragraphs regarding not smearing any Democrat running for the presidency but rather make the case why one's candidate should be considered - an OP.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)Did you see ProSense's post here?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026595513
That is an instructive list there and leads the mind to think deeply on how changes can be made. But those will have the chance of a snowball in hell if the RFers win. If Democrats away from the polls and the GOP wins. All of their candidates stand firmly against our ideals. The problem of such posts as this one:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12777544
It was only locked after it was called out in other forums and groups, and in the group itself. But the sentiment that was expressed by this poster, is impressive in stating the problem:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12777544#post7
Such things are dishonest and will drive away the most loyal voting blocks of the Democratic Party. It is wrong to promote Bernie that way, unless the agenda is to defeat Bernie, but that is not what DUers expected, although some thought it was a grand idea, their axes are always by the grind stone.
The posts there have changed after being called out in several forums and groups, but a look at the hosts of a group always says a lot:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12774722
And promoting division in the pinned thread, and promoting a thread from another forum with a title like:
Ready For Someone Else!
Is not about promoting populism, but destroying a Democrat. One should not play coy with what one is doing, because we know full well it is a take off on the Ready for Hillary theme. So how does that help Democratic voting?
It doesn't. Nor does it help when people promise if Clinton is the candidate, they will vote Green or not vote at all, and let the devil take hindmost, and elect a GOP. Which some even admit as they post here, won't be affected by a GOP takeover.
A great number of people will be, and this is not a game to us. For those who won't be effected but come here to slam Democrats, it must be some kind of hobby to post here. As they won't be hurt. I'm of the class of folks that not only will be gravely hurt, but will see many I know about die from GOP policy.
They are not my allies. They look down their noses in disdain at us lesser ones, like so:
They have only defeated the people they say they support. The sting over slurs, like negative campaigning, does not leave the minds of those who might want to be involved with such things.
That is also the intention of RFing, so what is the motivation, to divide and chase other voices out of the discussion or to offer an alternative?
Most people will not go where they are clearly not wanted, when they're called Obama bootlickers, turd wayists, or any number of slurs that don't encompass all that those they are slinging at are. A loss for all sides.
I am a 'FDR Democrat,' but after reading the attacks of the alleged 'FDR Democrats' I do not feel comfortable here. I do not slur Democrats, any more than FDR did, and some of them in his day surely needed to be run away, but that is what a coalition is about. There were some evil people in that coalition, too.
But good spirited people are being run away. Despite the 'change of heart' of some that we can forgive, we cannot forget. And that is a strong motivator or demotivator in voting. Like this both parties are the same shinola:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1277&pid=6155
I appreciate your kind words. I swear this place off every few days because of RFing but come back to read posts such as yours. Thanks.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)But to support 'Third Way®' economic policies is.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)The 'Third Way®' are a tiny sliver and have driven the party hard right, and driven many away from the party.
If the 'Third Way®' goes away, the party will start to regain some of it's stature of years past. We aren't libertarians and we aren't right wingers, sorry.
Demeter
(85,373 posts)Proverbs 28 King James Version (KJV)
PeaceNikki
(27,985 posts)Gross.
Pooka Fey
(3,496 posts)was the 1st book EVER printed on the 1st printing press, in the 15th century, by Gutenberg.
That stunning technological innovation led directly, through the following centuries, to the generalization of literacy (among other things) - reading and writing - and then to the democratization of education, previously only available to the wealthy.
The democratization of literacy led, quite naturally, to more democratic forms of government.
There is a direct connection between that "F***ing" bible", our Western democratic system of government, and your ability to express your opinion in a public forum by typing. Isn't that funny?
PowerToThePeople
(9,610 posts)AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)All right wing economic ideologies are a scam.
PowerToThePeople
(9,610 posts)3rd way is just "Reagonomics (D)"
Orsino
(37,428 posts)But they will be, I hope.
mylye2222
(2,992 posts)will do anything to sabotage his bid.