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Segami

(14,923 posts)
Thu Apr 30, 2015, 05:53 AM Apr 2015

Lefties, Meet Your Candidate: Why Bernie Sanders Is The ONLY AUTHENTIC ALTERNATIVE To Hillary Clinton





If the left flank of the Democratic Party is looking for an alternative to Hillary Clinton around whom to rally, there are no perfect figures. When the Clintons led the centrist iteration of the Democratic Party in the 1990s, two of her potential Democratic challengers, Jim Webb and Lincoln Chafee, were actual Republicans. So, no. Another of the men was a good DLC soldier within the Clinton Democratic Party when that suited the advancement of his career, and now he’s acting like Pete Seeger out there because an opportunity has arisen. I cannot think of a better image of Martin O’Malley’s career than him walking through the protests in Baltimore to get his picture taken. He was the one who turned Baltimore over to the wolves of “no tolerance,” broken-windows policing during his tenure as mayor from 1999 to 2007, using his get-tough approach as a stepping stone toward the governor’s mansion. The only authentic guy on the Democratic side of the ledger is the one declaring his candidacy today.


Bernie Sanders is an old leftist crank — we mean that in the best possible way — from Brooklyn. You can tell that he is from Brooklyn if you listen to any word that he says. We will be hearing a lot more about the MILLIONAYUHS AND BILLIONAYUHS over the next year or so, and we’ll be hearing it from someone who didn’t just arrive at his opinions yesterday after commissioning a few focus groups. Among this field, the 73-year-old Vermont senator is the natural recipient for anti-Clinton votes. Yes, there will be a lot of theater criticism surrounding Sanders’ announcement: He’s too old, he’s too left, he’s too regional. He doesn’t properly comb his hair; he hunches over. But what if Democratic voters like him anyway because they agree with his policies — like single-payer healthcare, financial reform, massive infrastructure investments, and campaign finance reform? A revolutionary notion, sure. Once people wrap their heads around the fact that Elizabeth Warren is not running for president, a significant number of votes are going to free up. Recently we asked why pollsters continue including Elizabeth Warren in their surveys, since she’s said repeatedly that she’s not getting into the race, and there’s little reason to believe that’s some sort of long-game ruse.



The two most recent polls from Iowa offer an interesting contrast in how the field shapes up with and without Warren. In both cases, sure, Hillary Clinton is crushing everyone. But who at least can break double digits against her? In a Loras College poll from last week that includes both Elizabeth Warren and Joe Biden, Clinton takes 57 percent to Warren’s 15, with Biden at 6 and Sanders at 2. A PPP poll from this week, though, excludes Warren and Biden. (The conventional read on Biden, for what it’s worth, is that he’d jump in if Hillary Clinton imploded and had to drop out. The conventional read on Hillary Clinton is that there is no scandal imaginable that could persuade her to drop out. So.) In this Warren-less, Biden-less survey that more accurately resembles the look of the probable Democratic field, Clinton wins 62 percent of likely Iowa caucus-goers. Bernie Sanders comes in second place with 14 percent, followed by the Baltimore Healer with 6.






cont'

http://www.salon.com/2015/04/30/lefties_meet_your_candidate_why_bernie_sanders_is_the_only_authentic_alternative_to_hillary_clinton/
68 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Lefties, Meet Your Candidate: Why Bernie Sanders Is The ONLY AUTHENTIC ALTERNATIVE To Hillary Clinton (Original Post) Segami Apr 2015 OP
"the ONLY authentic alternative?" magical thyme Apr 2015 #1
If you think that Bernie is controlled by "TPTB"... 99Forever Apr 2015 #15
True. Sanders is a kink in the powerworks, so to speak. ananda Apr 2015 #27
no. I think the title sounds like TPTB trying to reframe his entrance magical thyme Apr 2015 #35
It a title, nothing more. 99Forever Apr 2015 #40
this is quite a good article cali Apr 2015 #2
I can only imagine.... Segami Apr 2015 #5
well, we know that many of her supporters here cali Apr 2015 #9
We're in Denial? Gamecock Lefty Apr 2015 #17
I suspect the HRC camp(aign) isn't much concerned about Bernie's entry ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2015 #13
I hope you are surprised because (and I could very well be wrong) I think Bernie has great Hiraeth Apr 2015 #24
The HRC camp(aign) should be HAPPY about this development Jim Lane Apr 2015 #29
I agree ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2015 #37
Maybe instead of looking at the 'numbers' they should do what Bernie has always done, sabrina 1 Apr 2015 #42
Yeah, they could ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2015 #44
I doubt Bernie's staff is focused on 'numbers'. I have a feeling they are doing what they have sabrina 1 Apr 2015 #45
Clearly, he is not ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2015 #46
* L0oniX Apr 2015 #60
Just did, thank you! sabrina 1 Apr 2015 #62
This is why I like smaller states going first in the primary process ... JustABozoOnThisBus Apr 2015 #32
+1 He's the only candidate telling the truth about oligarchy. woo me with science Apr 2015 #3
Exactly - he's brave to tackle this. polichick Apr 2015 #10
If he gets beat it won't be because of Hillary. It will be because of the 1% IMO. L0oniX Apr 2015 #52
Works.. sendero Apr 2015 #4
maybe she'll pick him for VP. ileus Apr 2015 #6
I could be wrong but, I think he will turn that down. Hiraeth Apr 2015 #25
So Bernie is going to run a good campaign, he has solid credentials, and may push the party FSogol Apr 2015 #7
He's not the only alternative, LWolf Apr 2015 #8
No kidding - we need to put the primary schedule on the reform list! polichick Apr 2015 #11
And not even with a vote but a poll zeemike Apr 2015 #21
would just love for all primaries to be on the same day! n/t 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2015 #39
too early dembotoz Apr 2015 #12
^this^ Hiraeth Apr 2015 #26
"To all the Democrats who think the Iraq war was a disaster: alterfurz Apr 2015 #14
K&R 99Forever Apr 2015 #16
Kicked and recommended a whole bunch! Enthusiast Apr 2015 #18
* L0oniX Apr 2015 #53
How do I join? Enthusiast Apr 2015 #58
subscribe at the link below... L0oniX Apr 2015 #59
Thanks, L0oniX. Enthusiast Apr 2015 #61
Put this into the factor................ turbinetree Apr 2015 #19
Bernie is not... Augiedog Apr 2015 #20
Well said. zeemike Apr 2015 #22
+1 to that. nt raouldukelives Apr 2015 #31
Indeed. hifiguy Apr 2015 #49
Yeah Bernie! Paka Apr 2015 #23
Being far left is not a qualification to me for the office of presidency not more than the Thinkingabout Apr 2015 #28
Examples? n/t ieoeja Apr 2015 #33
If you do not understand then do research. I am entitled to my opinion, I am not a teacher. Thinkingabout Apr 2015 #34
So you make an accusation that you refuse to defend. ieoeja Apr 2015 #36
Results... Major Nikon Apr 2015 #38
Wow ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2015 #41
#3 got it right JI7 Apr 2015 #51
No, I'm happy that I have the opportunity to choose between Sanders and O'Malley. lumberjack_jeff Apr 2015 #30
Regardless of the labels put on him, he needs a stylist LordGlenconner Apr 2015 #43
Bernie is perfect the way he is. Excellent on the issues, honest, strong, unafraid to state sabrina 1 Apr 2015 #47
Hollywood politicians are sooo yesterday. Zorra Apr 2015 #48
I'm not talking about him going Hollwood LordGlenconner Apr 2015 #55
'Optics matter'! Lol! Only if you don't care about ISSUES! Bering is about issues. sabrina 1 Apr 2015 #63
You're right. My mistake. LordGlenconner Apr 2015 #64
A shallow suggestion, assuming Americans are stupid. Bush, lol, now there's a guy who sabrina 1 Apr 2015 #65
Quick: Who was the last untelgenic person to be elected president? LordGlenconner May 2015 #66
George Bush?? Wasn't very telegenic imo. He lied and cheated his way into the WH. sabrina 1 May 2015 #67
The public needs more blow-dried politians! I think it's in the constitution or something. Tierra_y_Libertad Apr 2015 #50
Blow dried? LordGlenconner Apr 2015 #56
I'm not voting for his hair. Tierra_y_Libertad Apr 2015 #57
He's not appearing on The Voice or Dancing with the Farts. L0oniX Apr 2015 #54
Hilliary is Hair Metal. Bernie is Nirvana. ZX86 May 2015 #68
 

magical thyme

(14,881 posts)
1. "the ONLY authentic alternative?"
Thu Apr 30, 2015, 05:57 AM
Apr 2015

So TPTB have decided we're allowed to have an alternative to Hillary...but only one?

Meh.

 

magical thyme

(14,881 posts)
35. no. I think the title sounds like TPTB trying to reframe his entrance
Thu Apr 30, 2015, 09:40 AM
Apr 2015

as, well, we'll let in one authentic alternative.

But just one.

I don't think TPTB control Bernie in any way, shape or form. And he can't be bought.

99Forever

(14,524 posts)
40. It a title, nothing more.
Thu Apr 30, 2015, 09:52 AM
Apr 2015

I suspect used because Senator Sanders is a true, viable candidate, with a good chance of winning.

If there's someone else that does, I am missing seeing them.

 

Segami

(14,923 posts)
5. I can only imagine....
Thu Apr 30, 2015, 06:09 AM
Apr 2015

...that the Hillary camp is NOT too pleased with Bernie's entry. As for his polling numbers, I can only speculate that once he gets going on the road and begins talking to folks along the way, his numbers will begin to improve. Bernie has the ability to syphon Clinton soft support and even from republicans who see their candidates as a group of war mongering morons.

I'm curious to see what his polling numbers will be in the next couple of weeks.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
9. well, we know that many of her supporters here
Thu Apr 30, 2015, 06:22 AM
Apr 2015

are none too pleased- despite their denials that there is no negativity toward Bernie here.

I'm curious to see his polling in about 2 months.

Gamecock Lefty

(708 posts)
17. We're in Denial?
Thu Apr 30, 2015, 07:48 AM
Apr 2015

So let me get this straight. We Hillary supporters are in denial regarding Sanders jumping in the race despite us saying otherwise? And you're also saying we Hillary supporters really have negativity towards Sanders despite saying otherwise? Really? Did something I (we) say make you believe that?

I like Sanders – always have – much better than Warren – whom I also happen to like. And I look forward to a robust debate within our (notice I said OUR) Democratic Party. In the end, my vote goes for Hillary, but if Sanders wins the nomination, he’ll get my vote enthusiastically! If Sanders wins, I’m not going to cry and decide to stay home and not vote like other posters here have said regarding Hillary.

As I’ve said before, I’m fine with those that don’t like or support Hillary. But try voting Republican and see where that gets you!

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
13. I suspect the HRC camp(aign) isn't much concerned about Bernie's entry ...
Thu Apr 30, 2015, 07:23 AM
Apr 2015

they are looking at the numbers; though, I do not doubt there are some Hillary supporters that might not be please.

I suspect there is little, to no, chance of Bernie getting ANY republican votes ... for any reason.

Hiraeth

(4,805 posts)
24. I hope you are surprised because (and I could very well be wrong) I think Bernie has great
Thu Apr 30, 2015, 08:56 AM
Apr 2015

cross over potential. All remains to be seen and, we will just have to watch (GOTV) these campaigns play out.

 

Jim Lane

(11,175 posts)
29. The HRC camp(aign) should be HAPPY about this development
Thu Apr 30, 2015, 09:08 AM
Apr 2015

We know that, regardless of who the major-party candidates are, the Republicans will try to portray the Democratic nominee as a big-government socialist. If Clinton were to defeat Sanders, then she would be the nominee after having been in televised debates in which she came across as more conservative than Sanders.

In the general election, that would help her appeal to the mushy middle. There are millions of Americans who aren't particularly focused on issues like whether single-payer health care would be a good idea, but they do have a tendency to think the truth must always be somewhere in the middle. If people think the serious choices include single-payer on the left (Sanders) and repeal Obamacare on the right (Republican nominee), then Clinton (keep Obamacare but no single payer) would come across as being the moderate, centrist candidate.

When they call her a socialist, as they would, she could say, "Ha! I debated and beat an actual socialist." This could only help her.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
37. I agree ...
Thu Apr 30, 2015, 09:47 AM
Apr 2015

And should the original OP bare out (i.e., Bernie doesn't run negative campaign), it would be the best thing for the Party, as the campaign would be about his take on the issues versus her take on the issues; rather than, his missteps/misstatements versus her missteps/misstatements ... it would be about building support for "our side"; rather than, merely tearing down the other side - leaving the gop with little to attack whomever the eventual Democratic nominee is, on.

This could be a new, and welcomed, day in politics.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
42. Maybe instead of looking at the 'numbers' they should do what Bernie has always done,
Thu Apr 30, 2015, 09:58 AM
Apr 2015

look at what the people need.

So sick of 'pollsters' and corporate money running this country.

We have over one and a half years for the people to hear what Bernie has to say.

The 'numbers' in 2007 turned out to be wrong.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
44. Yeah, they could ...
Thu Apr 30, 2015, 10:04 AM
Apr 2015

but that is not what campaign staffs are paid to do. Their job is to look at the sentiment of the electorate (i.e., the polls) and using that information to win elections.

BTW ... corporate money, and its influence, has little to do with this, particular, discussion.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
45. I doubt Bernie's staff is focused on 'numbers'. I have a feeling they are doing what they have
Thu Apr 30, 2015, 10:12 AM
Apr 2015

always done, which is why he trashes his opposition every time, concentrate on the issues people are concerned about and make sure he is up to date on what the needs of the people are, what needs to be done regarding issues like eg, the TPP and how that will affect the working class eg.

The numbers FOLLOW.

Hillary eg, has name recognition. The numbers right now reflect that.

She has said very little about where she stands on some pretty important issues.

Bernie will not hesitate to say where he stands.

He has a long time to start gaining recognition and he has the enthusiasm of supporters who will make sure to spread his message so that people begin to take notice.

He doesn't have the corporate dollars that buy our elections, so yes, that will be a hurdle for him to overcome.

But it is way too early in the race right now to be looking only at 'numbers'. Those numbers will change so they mean very little at this point.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
46. Clearly, he is not ...
Thu Apr 30, 2015, 10:28 AM
Apr 2015

"under-dog" candidates never do, they can't afford to ... But you would be incorrect if you think Bernie's campaign staff isn't focused on the numbers.

Hillary eg, has name recognition. The numbers right now reflect that.


This, too, is a misnomer ... HRC has a lot more than name recognition, and her numbers reflect that, too (both positively and negatively).

But it is way too early in the race right now to be looking only at 'numbers'. Those numbers will change so they mean very little at this point.


This has nothing to do with my comment or the comment to which I was responding.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
62. Just did, thank you!
Thu Apr 30, 2015, 05:30 PM
Apr 2015

Fastest growing on Reddit!

People are starving for someone who speaks for them.

I know Bernie can win.

JustABozoOnThisBus

(24,634 posts)
32. This is why I like smaller states going first in the primary process ...
Thu Apr 30, 2015, 09:16 AM
Apr 2015

... a new (sorta face can get his message out and become a known candidate.

If NY/CA/FL went first, the early big money would just crush all newcomers.

The sequence of states was debated eight years ago, I'm sure it will be again.

woo me with science

(32,139 posts)
3. +1 He's the only candidate telling the truth about oligarchy.
Thu Apr 30, 2015, 06:06 AM
Apr 2015

That is why I believe the PTB would stop at nothing, and I mean nothing, to marginalize and if necessary end his candidacy.

Elizabeth Warren's message on economics is important and welcome. But even her policy agenda does not clearly challenge the wars and the secret government/surveillance state/police state that are dismantling democracy in this nation.

We don't just need to be more economically comfortable within an authoritarian state. We need restoration of our democracy and our Bill of Rights.

We need reform of our elections. We need restoration of our civil liberties. We need an end to the surveillance state and the militarization of our police forces, and the private prison industry, and the endless wars for profit.

FSogol

(47,543 posts)
7. So Bernie is going to run a good campaign, he has solid credentials, and may push the party
Thu Apr 30, 2015, 06:19 AM
Apr 2015

leftward. However in the attack media and on DU, his campaign will just be used as an melee campaign to divide the party?



Ridiculous.

LWolf

(46,179 posts)
8. He's not the only alternative,
Thu Apr 30, 2015, 06:22 AM
Apr 2015

but he's the only alternative to step up to the plate.

And I can't tell you how fucking sick and tired I am of having Iowa and New Hampshire decide who should be on my ballot months later.

alterfurz

(2,677 posts)
14. "To all the Democrats who think the Iraq war was a disaster:
Thu Apr 30, 2015, 07:29 AM
Apr 2015

You now have a candidate who voted against it." -- Andy Borowitz

turbinetree

(27,208 posts)
19. Put this into the factor................
Thu Apr 30, 2015, 07:58 AM
Apr 2015

of the costs.
And this is why I support Senator Sanders---hard working blue collar workers funded his election.

When Sanders runs and did run for office in Vermont he took no funds from oligarchies:

Now we have a choice-------yeah


http://opensecrets.org

"CAREER PROFILE (SINCE 1989)
Top Contributors
Senator Bernie Sanders

Campaign Finance Cycle: (Total)
Machinists/Aerospace Workers Union $95,000
Teamsters Union $83,700
United Auto Workers $75,900
National Education Assn $69,850
Communications Workers of America $65,607
United Food & Commercial Workers Union $65,500
Laborers Union $63,250
Carpenters & Joiners Union $61,500
American Assn for Justice $60,500
American Fedn of St/Cnty/Munic Employees $59,198
National Assn of Letter Carriers $52,000
Intl Brotherhood of Electrical Workers $48,500
United Transportation Union $47,500
Sheet Metal Workers Union $46,000
Operating Engineers Union $45,100
United Steelworkers $42,250
UNITE HERE $41,875
Service Employees International Union $41,382
American Postal Workers Union $36,200
American Federation of Teachers $35,567

This table lists the top donors to this candidate in 1989-2014. The organizations themselves did not donate, rather the money came from the organizations' PACs, their individual members or employees or owners, and those individuals' immediate families. Organization totals include subsidiaries and affiliates."

Augiedog

(2,696 posts)
20. Bernie is not...
Thu Apr 30, 2015, 08:01 AM
Apr 2015

An authentic alternative to Hillary. Hillary is an inauthentic alternative to Bernie. True democrats and progressives across America are aghast at the rightward pull that money has made in politics. The Citizens United decision by the SCOTUS can be likened to a nuclear reactor running wild and claiming it is making free energy for all. A Warren/Sanders.....Sanders/Warren ticket may be the beginning of some hope for a renewed America, one that actually reflects the ideal of a shining beacon on a storm wracked mountain.

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
28. Being far left is not a qualification to me for the office of presidency not more than the
Thu Apr 30, 2015, 09:01 AM
Apr 2015

RW TP is a qualification. We need a leader who will be available in a broad spectrum of the needs of the citizens of the US.

 

ieoeja

(9,748 posts)
36. So you make an accusation that you refuse to defend.
Thu Apr 30, 2015, 09:44 AM
Apr 2015

I know a great deal about Bernie. He has worked alongside many Republicans on many issues over the years. He is extremely mainstream which is why Republican rank-and-file in Vermont fall all over themselves to re-elect the man every year.

Yet, you claim he is too left. I researched and can not find anything that would make hiim outside the mainstream. I would be curious to know what you found that I failed to find?

Major Nikon

(36,925 posts)
38. Results...
Thu Apr 30, 2015, 09:48 AM
Apr 2015

On Thu Apr 30, 2015, 09:45 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

If you do not understand then do research. I am entitled to my opinion, I am not a teacher.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6595247

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Zero fucking reason for this snarky ass shit.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Thu Apr 30, 2015, 09:47 AM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: This is unnecessarily nasty. This reflects very poorly on the poster
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Your alert was snarkier! This is getting pathetic. No reason to alert on this post.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: This alerter needs a nap.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: If we hid "do your own research" responses about a tenth of the site would disappear. Stet.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Thought it was fine.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
41. Wow ...
Thu Apr 30, 2015, 09:57 AM
Apr 2015

That was quite the Alert.

It seemed the poster who was alerted on just refused to be dragged into a "So you don't support Bernie? Well, I think your person you support is a poopy-head!" discussion.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
47. Bernie is perfect the way he is. Excellent on the issues, honest, strong, unafraid to state
Thu Apr 30, 2015, 02:24 PM
Apr 2015

his positions and totally refreshing to listen to as opposed to the corporate messages we've hearing for far too long.

 

LordGlenconner

(1,348 posts)
55. I'm not talking about him going Hollwood
Thu Apr 30, 2015, 03:17 PM
Apr 2015

I'm talking about getting him to the point that he doesn't look like he got his clothes out of the bottom of a laundry hamper, or your crazy uncle who came to dinner with gravy stains on his tie.

Optics matter.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
63. 'Optics matter'! Lol! Only if you don't care about ISSUES! Bering is about issues.
Thu Apr 30, 2015, 05:33 PM
Apr 2015

Leave the optics to Hollywood.

I love Bernie's 'look' as you call it.

Why?

Because it's honest, natural, he's busy working for the people, not worrying about how he looks.

I have a feeling he's going to set a new standard for 'optics'.

Btw, how should a politician 'look'?

 

LordGlenconner

(1,348 posts)
64. You're right. My mistake.
Thu Apr 30, 2015, 06:41 PM
Apr 2015

I had completely forgotten that presidential campaigns were the last refuge for candidates who are completely untelegenic. Carry on.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
65. A shallow suggestion, assuming Americans are stupid. Bush, lol, now there's a guy who
Thu Apr 30, 2015, 11:39 PM
Apr 2015

had the right 'optics'.

Thank the gods most Americans have more to worry about than wanting their President to look like Hollywood's idea of 'optics'.

'Oh, he's great on the issues, but he doesn't comb his hair'!

I love the low opinion people have of voters.

He seems to have managed to get himself elected with overwhelming majorities to the US Senate with the 'optics' he has.

I'm pretty confident he looks exactly the way a President should look, natural.

 

LordGlenconner

(1,348 posts)
66. Quick: Who was the last untelgenic person to be elected president?
Fri May 1, 2015, 02:38 PM
May 2015

You'd have to go back to before TV. Like it or not, that's the culture we live in today. Everything is about image and the packaging.

And yes, I do assume Americans are that stupid. It would be willfully ignorant or naive to assume anything else.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
67. George Bush?? Wasn't very telegenic imo. He lied and cheated his way into the WH.
Fri May 1, 2015, 02:43 PM
May 2015

Bernie won't have to do that either.

I have more respect for the voters than you do obviously, not to say there aren't enough of them who are 'that stupid'.

However, I do believer there are more who are NOT 'that stupid', many of whom may have just given up on the system and are among the huge numbers who don't vote. I think Bernie can stimulate them again into believing that we can have a President who represents them IF they get back in the system and change it themselves.

ZX86

(1,428 posts)
68. Hilliary is Hair Metal. Bernie is Nirvana.
Fri May 1, 2015, 03:35 PM
May 2015

I think many of us underestimate the power of a sincere message. Once his unfiltered message gets out there he will even garner Republican support. He is plain spoken and no nonsense. He shuts down stupid interviewers and there stupid questions immediately. He doesn't play their game. It's a breath of fresh air that will resonate with all voters even if they don't agree with him.

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