General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsCops do it again. Now it's "Charging Your Electric Vehicle While Black".
A Santa Monica man was arrested on April 21 while attempting to charge his electric vehicle, and the incident is sparking discussions of racial profiling and the use of force that mirror the current national debate.
All sides agree on a basic set of facts. Justin Leland Palmer, 36, an African-American, NYU grad and father of four with no criminal history, was at the Virginia Avenue Park electric car charging station on the evening of April 21. He was asked to leave the charging station by police, he refused, he was asked for his identification, he refused, he was then tackled to the ground, pepper-sprayed and arrested. However, details, including why some of those actions were taken, are heavily disputed.
...
Camarena said when contacted, Palmer refused to leave the charging station and after making multiple requests for him to leave, officers decided to issue Palmer a citation. Palmer refused to provide his identification as part of the citation process, at which point officers decided to make an arrest for obstructing an officer and violating the posted hours of the park.
During the arrest, the subject actively resisted, said a statement issued by SMPD. Officers deployed pepper spray and physically restrained him. The subject was taken to Santa Monica Public Safety Facility where he was fingerprinted and booked. At the Santa Monica Jail the subject complained of pain. He was transported to the Santa Monica Hospital for treatment and was medically cleared. The subject was subsequently issued a citation and released.
http://smdp.com/police-pepper-spray-santa-monica-man-park-dispute/147521#sthash.S9rXP1TS.dpuf
More details:
Palmer would not comment. Instead, he directed questions to his attorney, Justin H. Sanders, a Partner with Sanders, Roberts & Jewett.
According to Sanders, Palmer routinely uses the charging stations at the park. On April 21, he said, Palmer entered the park at about 9:30 p.m. and found all the charging bays in use. He waited in his car until about 10:30 p.m. when a charger became available. Palmer drove from one side of the parking lot to the now-open charging station, where officers contacted him.
Sanders described the officers behavior as aggressive from the start and said his client was singled out for police contact despite the presence of other people using the park and charging vehicles. He said when Palmer asked officers to explain why he was being prohibited from using the stations, the officers demanded to see identification. Palmer questioned why his identification was needed, as he felt he had done nothing wrong, and it was at that point he was arrested. According to Sanders, the arresting officer cuffed Palmers hands behind his back, swept his legs from under him and took him to the ground. While on the ground, Sanders said, a second officer used pepper spray on Palmer.
http://insideevs.com/attempt-to-charge-nissan-leaf-after-hours-ends-with-owner-pepper-sprayed-and-tackled-by-police-wvideo/
tblue37
(65,269 posts)olddots
(10,237 posts)N.T.
kelliekat44
(7,759 posts)He should know better. Cops become enraged when they see a black man with a car they themselves can't afford.
LiberalElite
(14,691 posts)BrotherIvan
(9,126 posts)Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)NoJusticeNoPeace
(5,018 posts)We all need to keep saying this over and over.
It is no longer a discussion, anyone who wants to debate this can go to a rightwing racist site and discuss it, here we have decided to stop pretending we dont know what is happening right in front of our eyes.
BrotherIvan
(9,126 posts)Well, except maybe O'Reilly who is just a lying ass.
NoJusticeNoPeace
(5,018 posts)Jackpine Radical
(45,274 posts)there is no way in Hell I would trade my own life circumstances for those of Bill O'Reilly. There are a lot of ways for genuine assholes to get rich, and he found himself a particularly destructive one.
He may have a lot of money, but he is not rich in any way that counts. I do not have a lot of money, but I have enough to live on and have wonderful family and friends and a life filled with meaning that extends far beyond my own narrow interests. I spend time every day immersed in gratitude for my riches.
Evil people do not live good lives, no matter what it may look like from the outside. I would not want to be a prisoner in his head.
msongs
(67,381 posts)MrScorpio
(73,630 posts)It always has.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)all over.
lexington filly
(239 posts)Canoe52
(2,948 posts)Sorry for my French, but this is just nuts. I'm so tired of hearing this almost daily now, that I'm ready to drop by my local police station and ask them what the hell is wrong with you people!
Have these cops always been doing this and only because of the internet we are finally hearing about it, or is this a fairly new phenomenon?
And thirdly, what can we do about changing this? It has to stop, it's sick, it's disgusting, and we as a society shouldn't be allowing this to go on.
brush
(53,759 posts)Last edited Fri May 1, 2015, 05:11 PM - Edit history (1)
The new technology of cellphone video has exposed police brutality and cops to the general public.
Not being the sharpest knives in the drawer, many cops haven't caught on yet that when they brutalize in public now there is likely someone with a cellphone nearby taping it.
libdem4life
(13,877 posts)the cell phone as having A Lot of power...especially streaming, as I've heard.
romanic
(2,841 posts)Did the cops think he stole the electric car he was driving? This is completely ridiculous. :mad
rurallib
(62,403 posts)I mean how else could a black man afford such a car?
Xithras
(16,191 posts)It's right in the first linked article. The electric charging stations closed at 8PM. Palmer entered the park 90 minutes after the chargers closed, and tried to plug in two and a half hours after they closed. The police asked him to leave because the chargers were no longer open to the public. When he refused, they tried to write him a citation for using the facilities after hours. Things escalated from there.
okaawhatever
(9,461 posts)tammywammy
(26,582 posts)He refused to leave that's why they wanted to issue the citation.
okaawhatever
(9,461 posts)Trillo
(9,154 posts)that the guy would wait for an hour to fill up his tank, which in this case is a battery. I wouldn't voluntarily wait for a hour to fill my car with gasoline (I don't have an electric), so why would someone with an electric vehicle wait that long to fill theirs?
Warpy
(111,222 posts)and maybe not enough juice to make it home.
People would start waiting at 5 AM for stations that opened at 8 AM back in the oil shocks in the 70s. When gas supplies get low, this stuff happens.
As more charging stations open, having police want to close down a park station won't be as much of an issue. Right now, it seems to be because there are just too few commercial stations in the area.
hunter
(38,309 posts)But even more reasonable, put in more chargers and allow them to be used 24/7.
I do think this problem will solve itself. Fast food restaurants, diners, and other traditional auto-centric 24/7 businesses will more commonly offer free or reduced rate charging, just as they now offer free clean toilets.
This doesn't mean the police will harass black people any less, however.
There was absolutely no excuse for what the police did here. They presumably had the car's license plate number, knew it hadn't been reported as stolen, and probably could have sent out a parking citation by mail.
Hell, my kids have gotten tickets for dumb young adult driving tricks, things like using the FasTrak lanes without a pass, or overstaying the limit at public parking garages. No police interactions at all, leave the scolding to the owners of the car, in this case mom and pop.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)Because my first question is why *anyone* was still there so long after closing.
OnlinePoker
(5,719 posts)The park was closed between 11PM and 3AM. He was approached by officers at 10:30. From what I can see, there is at least one other car beside the one (I'm assuming) is the arrested man. Clearly, the other people never left either.
Judi Lynn
(160,515 posts)Turin_C3PO
(13,944 posts)I can't even begin to imagine what it's like to be black in america.
lostnfound
(16,169 posts)When asked if AIDS was the worst thing he had ever faced, he said "no, the hardest thing was being a black man in this society ."
BeanMusical
(4,389 posts)get the red out
(13,460 posts)Our society just sucks.
rpannier
(24,329 posts)Watch when you're being questioned by police as to what happened. They will often try and twist what you say to make you either give the story they want or just flat out confuse you to the point where you're uncertain of much.
They are trained in the art of questioning and deception.
Be careful
safeinOhio
(32,656 posts)Anything you say will be misquoted, and then used against you.
I have a tee shirt with the quote above it. It was given to me by my ex, a cop.
Cops are not only likely to lie about everything, they are trained to do it.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)If there were justice in the world, every police officer would wake up in the morning with a blast of pepper spray to the face and kick to the groin.
PinkPotus
(35 posts)If it was after hours, he should have presented ID. If it wasn't after hours he rightly should have told them to get lost.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)it says all the stations were being used and he was waiting in his car for a station to open.
PinkPotus
(35 posts)gollygee
(22,336 posts)"According to Sanders, Palmer routinely uses the charging stations at the park. On April 21, he said, Palmer entered the park at about 9:30 p.m. and found all the charging bays in use. He waited in his car until about 10:30 p.m. when a charger became available. Palmer drove from one side of the parking lot to the now-open charging station, where officers contacted him."
Maybe it's like a pay-at-the-pump place where there building is open some of the time but you can fuel up at other times? If all the bays were in use at 9:30, people were using it.
PinkPotus
(35 posts)Camarena said when contacted, Palmer refused to leave the charging station and after making multiple requests for him to leave, officers decided to issue Palmer a citation. Palmer refused to provide his identification as part of the citation process, at which point officers decided to make an arrest for obstructing an officer and violating the posted hours of the park.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)If other people were using the charging stations at that time, then there's no reason he couldn't as well. Were they all violating the posted hours of the park? And if so, why was he singled out?
PinkPotus
(35 posts)He had an obligation to provide ID.
Beaverhausen
(24,470 posts)okaawhatever
(9,461 posts)Beaverhausen
(24,470 posts)scroll down and look on the left hand side.
Parking & Charge Costs and hours available:
Cost to Park: Free
Cost to Charge: Free
Hours Available : Park hours
tammywammy
(26,582 posts)hunter
(38,309 posts)...because I like to pretend I live in some kind of Democratic Republic, not some "Papers Please!" fascist state.
I'm way more bad-ass than any "Second Amendment" gun nut. I don't need guns to feel secure.
I'm also keenly aware I can get away with that because I'm very white and usually very polite.
I learned polite by bad example. My wild west mom and her mom often failed in the polite department. But way back then any cop who provoked a physical altercation with an angry white women and lost would have been marked forever as a sissy. Damaging or killing a white women wouldn't enhance a cop reputation.
When the courts declared my grandma a danger to herself and others, she held off the police and paramedics for about four hours that seemed like centuries, hitting, kicking, clawing, throwing things, biting, and cussing like the World War II shipyard welder and after hours party girl she once was.
My mom had previously removed the guns from grandma's house, but later we found more.
Either my grandma had forgotten where she'd hid the guns, or she'd still been sane enough not to escalate a hopeless situation.
I wouldn't trust many of today's cops as far as I'd have trusted my grandma at her very, very, wild west worst.
Grandma's Berserker states could almost be considered an art form. But in cops such behavior is simply very crass, ugly, unprofessional, occasionally escalating to outright murderous.
tammywammy
(26,582 posts)gollygee
(22,336 posts)If he was legally entitled to be there, and it appears the park doesn't close until after he was arrested, then he is not required to leave even if they ask him. Asking assumes no is an acceptable answer.
Xithras
(16,191 posts)If people are already plugged in and charging when the chargers close, they're allowed to remain plugged in until they're done. They don't walk through at 8PM and unplug everybody. He was trying to start a new charging session after the chargers had closed, which was not legal.
yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)Pissed if I was told to leave. I know I'd give attitude towards them and if I had to give identification I'd probably throw it at them. An hour wait to use the electricity? Oh yeah cops would hear it from me and the next day I'd trade the car in.
Gormy Cuss
(30,884 posts)Most Santa Monica parks including this one are open until 11 PM.
CA isn't a stop and identify state, so it's unclear why failure to show ID would escalate to pepper spray and arrest.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)Gormy Cuss
(30,884 posts)It's unclear from the links how well the charging stations are marked but one link said the stations close at 8:30 (that's really dumb given how many people would want to charge after work, but I digress.)
Either way, I seriously doubt that an officer would have pepper sprayed my white female self for asking why I had to show him ID.
tammywammy
(26,582 posts)It's in the article.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)If people are able to charge after 8, then maybe the building at the charging station closes but the stations are still open, in pay-at-the-pump style. All the stations were busy at 9:30, which is why he had to wait, so it was obviously still available as a charging area after 8.
Iggo
(47,546 posts)Beaverhausen
(24,470 posts)Parking & Charge Costs and hours available:
Cost to Park: Free
Cost to Charge: Free
Hours Available : Park hours
http://carstations.com/523/comment-page-1
tammywammy
(26,582 posts)NutmegYankee
(16,199 posts)No different than parking signs that limits the time a car can park during certain parts of the day.
Gormy Cuss
(30,884 posts)Escalation of nothing into something is the trend.
Lancero
(3,003 posts)The cops would have likely 'lost' 6 or seven rounds of ammo into his back.
Warpy
(111,222 posts)but the charging stations were supposed to be closed at 8 PM.
While I can see closing a city park in a fancy ass area like Santa Monica (they like to discourage "undesirables" from sleeping there), I can't really understand why the charging stations had an earlier closing hour without being shut down...or why they're closed, at all. There are 2 stations inside the park and 2 in the park parking lot, which is where it sounds like he was.
It also looks like a lot of the charging stations there are in public parks or at public buildings, a few associated with dealerships and one at a Whole Foods. All probably close when the facilities or businesses do.
I also think the problem will eventually solve itself as charging stations are offered at restaurants, shopping malls, and other establishments to draw customers away from businesses without them, but it's not happening yet.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)He's not required to leave someplace he's legally entitled to be, and he's not required to give his identification. Can you imagine if white people were routinely told to leave places for no reason, and told to give identification when they'd done nothing wrong? Heads would roll. Heads should roll here too!
WillowTree
(5,325 posts)".......officers decided to make an arrest for.......violating the posted hours of the park."
BeeBee
(1,074 posts)"Sanders described the officers behavior as aggressive from the start and said his client was singled out for police contact despite the presence of other people using the park and charging vehicles."
Did they arrest everyone there or just the black guy?
Hassin Bin Sober
(26,319 posts)Fucking hell.
They know they have a mess on their hands. This is a new tactic. Start questioning the witness while their camera is rolling and try to get them to admit, on camera, they "didn't see everything"
Gormy Cuss
(30,884 posts)fadedrose
(10,044 posts)What happens to the great guys who join the police force because they want to make a place better?
So much education and training is needed everywhere in the country it seems.
I've come to forget that blacks commit the most crimes and have come to the conclusion that maybe the whites aren't scrutinized enough and if they were, blacks don't commit more crimes.
avebury
(10,952 posts)get the red out
(13,460 posts)I guess to the police, African Americans can't own electric cars.
Initech
(100,054 posts)KeepItReal
(7,769 posts)Let's never stop shining a light on this police ridiculousness.
hunter
(38,309 posts)A few decades ago I had an unpleasant experience with the Santa Monica Police. I was sleeping in my car, and before I was fully awake they had me on the ground. I'm not black or Mexican, so they must have figured me for a hobo. When they realized I was not the typical hobo, they picked me up off the ground and went on the prowl for other people to harass.
Santa Monica is a liberal place, they do, after all, have electric charging stations but the affluent white community is frequently clueless about what's going on outside their protected "bubble."
Maybe it's different now from when I was a common visitor (I've long lived away from Southern California), but it seems not...
ScreamingMeemie
(68,918 posts)All words about equality, but "please keep people who are different from us at a safe distance. Thank you officer."
hunter
(38,309 posts)My great grandma owned a home there, sold in the 'fifties, but that's a historical detail. My grandma and her sister ran away to Hollywood as teens. My great grand mom followed shortly after to protect her daughters' honors. She was not successful. My great aunt had multiple Hollywood husbands, and my grandma graduated from UCLA and married a very eccentric Army Air Force rocket scientist.
The reason I was sleeping in my car was that I'd just returned from some very dirty desert evolutionary biology field work, stinky and dirty, and I didn't want to want to wake my girlfriend up too early.
My wonderful plan was to surprise her as her morning alarm went off and make her breakfast before she went to work.
Double plus fail. I got rolled by the police and my girlfriend was angry I hadn't called ahead.
Takket
(21,550 posts)What could they hate more than a black individual with an electric car?
workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)For the koch bros and their ilk
benld74
(9,904 posts)else they will be repeating the same problem but with different hours
Before Park Closes at 11PM
Charging stations close at 8PM
After Park closes at 11pm
Charging stations close at 3AM
Police say they were enforcing the 11PM PARK CLOSING WHILE in the charging station area.
Leaving the stations open until 3am while the park closes at 11PM
DOES NOTHING
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)Sounds like confusion plus selective enforcement to me.
Bigmack
(8,020 posts)... after all, they didn't just shoot him multiple times.
We all need to learn to be more grateful that the police don't shoot us for parking violations and general mopery.
spanone
(135,810 posts)Dont call me Shirley
(10,998 posts)BeanMusical
(4,389 posts)AnnieBW
(10,421 posts)Charging While Black? What's next? I mean we already have DWB and WWB. I guess Breathing While Black is in there, too.
RoseVil
(1 post)The city of Santa Monica is not filing charges against Justin Palmer in connection with his arrest while he was charging his electric vehicle in Virginia Avenue Park on April 21, 2015. A statement issued by the City of Santa Monica on May 5, 2015 said that after careful examination of the circumstances a decision was made not to file charges against Palmer.
http://mynewsla.com/crime/2015/05/05/man-pepper-sprayed-arrested-in-santa-monica-park-wont-face-charges/
According to Mr. Palmer's attorney, Justin H. Sanders, "The City Attorney's decision not to prosecute Mr. Palmer was made within few hours of the incident and is consistent with our position from the beginning that Mr. Palmer did nothing wrong. Mr. Palmer is clearly the victim of police brutality and extreme excessive force.
http://smdp.com/charges-man-pepper-sprayed-park/147738
I think Mr. Palmers rights have been violated by the police officers with the use of excessive force and false arrest. He was not resisting arrest but merely asking why the police wanted his ID since he thought he did not do anything wrong. There were other people in the park charging their cars at the time but he was singled out.
http://www.surfsantamonica.com/ssm_site/the_lookout/news/News-2015/April-2015/04_29_2015_Attorney_Claims_Super-Aggressive_Santa_Monica_Officers_Roughed_Up_Client.html
Mr. Palmer fell to the hard concrete face down, hand-cuffed, pepper sprayed and physically assaulted by the police officers. The force used was unnecessary and excessive. More so in this case the police brutality and abuse of power boils down to racism because of Mr. Palmers skin color. He is black.
I feel so sorry for Mr. Palmer because police abuse inflicts lasting trauma on the victims and their families. Mr. Palmer is a father of four young girls, trying to earn a living and had clean record before his fateful encounter with the police. Now he is injured in the hands of the police, went to jail, is losing salaries and wages, pays for medical bills and is suffering mental and emotional distress.
Mr. Palmer face the additional injustice of the harm done to his reputation via a criminal record. It has been said that broken bones and bruises heal, but a criminal record follows you to your grave.