Thug is the New N$&%er - A discussion

[Roy Rolling]

First they came for the word "integration". I said nothing.
Then they came for the word "liberal". I said nothing.
Then they came for the word "thug" . . . You get the point.

Once again, propagandists have seized another word from the English lexicon and given it a completely narrow and pejorative definition.

So can I call Putin a "thug" now? Is Al Capone still a "thug"? How should enlightened people counter this continuous political assault on the English language?

That's not rhetorical, I don't know. Do you? I just know I am irritated by the barrage of propaganda and re-purposing of word meanings to carry its underlying message. And that rioters in Baltimore are no more "thuggish" than rioters in Vancouver after a hockey riot. But that is reality, not the world of words.

[gollygee]

1. The word has already been repurposed

And people telling you how it's currently being used aren't the ones who are doing it. "The N Word" is no longer socially acceptable, so people who would use that needed to find another word in order to communicate the hateful messages they're used to communicating, and "thug" is the word they've chosen. Bravenak's thread was a message to let you know how that word is being used now and also to let you know that if you use it, people might very well assume that's how you mean it so you should be aware that people will make assumptions about you based upon your use of the word.

[derby378]

2. For all this talk of "dog-whistling" by opponents of the word...

...they fail to see that shadowy forces much greater than they realize have already been hard at work dog-whistling another word for at least 50 years - "liberal."

The forces of evil call us liberals because it's harder for them to call us n*****s or n*****-lovers in public, but just pay attention to the way the say "liberal," the inflection they use, and so on.

And yet we are proud to identify ourselves as liberals. We're all Bozos in this bus.

[demmiblue]

3. Oh, I get the point of this OP.

Half shit, half stir... in a to-go container, of course.

[JustAnotherGen]

4. You know what irritates me?

A cop or a Zimpig type could shoot my 76 year old uncle because it's fun.

It will come out that the got in a bar fight in West Germany (black soldier stationed there in the 1950's) 50 years ago -

He will get labeled a thug.

And the LEO Lovers everywhere will rejoice.

That's really irritating.


You know what REALLY irritates me? I read posts from our older DUers who are STRUGGLING financially. They worked hard alllllllllllllllllll of their lives and the Social Security is not enough.


Another thing that really irritates me? When a DU'er can't get a job that paid what they were making prior to the financial crash in 2008 and they have mouths to feed.

Know what REALLY irritates me - when I read a DU'ers father or stepdad got treated like shit by the V.A.


No offense or anything - I just -

I don't know - I've got bigger things to worry about than what word I can or cannot say.

I grew up saying 'retarded' and it hasn't been a big deal removing it from my vocabulary.

You are just going to have to adjust.

Just like I did.

[KG]

5. if 'Thug' is the New N$&%er - why is it allowed to be spelled out?

[B2G]

6. Give it time.

Soon the use will be a ban-worthy offense in here.

[NaturalHigh]

26. If some have there way, I don't doubt that.

[gollygee]

7. Because it is still new and still socially acceptable

That's the whole point. People still say it not understanding how it's most often used.

[Throd]

14. "how it's most often used."

I think the vast majority are still using it in its original context.

[gollygee]

18. The majority of people in your circle maybe

But not in the media (except maybe in hockey sports coverage - I'm a hockey fan (Red Wings!) and I know it isn't used that way in hockey.)

[Starry Messenger]

8. If this is the worst thing happening in your day, you probably have a pretty unaffected life.

[KingCharlemagne]

27. AKA 'White privilege' - nt

[NaturalHigh]

42. Wow...I think it's been almost 24 hours since I read that term.

That may be a record.

[KingCharlemagne]

43. Wow, aren't you precious? - nt

[cyberswede]

9. Gay used to mean "joyful" "carefree" and "full of mirth"

Word meanings evolve all the time.

The fact that many people use "thug" as a dog whistle for the n-word isn't the fault of those who point it out.

There are worse problems than adjusting your vocabulary so you don't offend people.

[B2G]

11. And yet 'gay' hasn't been banned.

It's very widely used.

I have a serious issue with a relatively small group deciding what the meaning and usage intent of a word is and then proceeding to demonize those who don't agree with their line of thinking.

The n word is completely different. It has always been used as a slur against a specific race...there was never a need to contort the definition to make it unacceptable.

Although niggardly sometimes draws gasps...that cracks me up every time.

[cyberswede]

12. Of course "gay" isn't banned

I used it only as an example of how word meanings evolve, not as a comparable example of a slur.

According to the Random House Historical Dictionary of American Slang, {the n-word} did not originate as a slur but took on a derogatory connotation over time. (link)

At one point in history, regular everyday white people used the n-word and had no problem doing so. The fact that we now find it an offensive slur is an example of how society, as a whole, has changed our view of the word. I'm sure there were plenty of people who felt demonized when they wanted to use the n-word, but were shamed out of it.

And it's the people who use "thug" as a dog whistle who are changing the meaning of the word, not those who point it out

[B2G]

13. So we can crawl into their heads and

just magically know that they really mean 'n*gger'?

Is that what Obama meant when he said it? Do you see the problem with this line of thinking? The only solution is to ban the use of the word. I have a huge issue with that.

[cyberswede]

16. When people use "thug" as a dog whistle, it's obvious.

I doubt Obama meant it as a dog whistle.

I don't need to crawl into Rush Limbaugh's head to know that's what he means.

Limbaugh on the NBA: "Call it the TBA, the Thug Basketball Association ... They're going in to watch the Crips and the Bloods"

http://mediamatters.org/research/2004/12/10/limbaugh-on-the-nba-call-it-the-tba-the-thug-ba/132430

Rush Limbaugh: Obama ‘a thug’ on Supreme Court

Rush Limbaugh on Tuesday joined the mass of conservative voices criticizing President Barack Obama’s recent comments about the Supreme Court’s decision on the constitutionality of the Affordable Care Act, calling the president a “thug” on the air.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0412/74792.html#ixzz3YtrFPiPY

[B2G]

20. So we ban a word based on Limbaugh?

No.

[cyberswede]

25. I've never mentioned banning a word. I'm pointing out its racist use, pursuant to the OP.

Considerate people might consider the way the word is used as a dog whistle and adjust their vocabulary accordingly.

There's nothing wrong with being aware of how words are used, and if they offend people, possibly choosing not to use them any more.

"Thug" *is* used as a replacement for the n-word. The Limbaugh examples make that pretty clear.

[B2G]

30. If you assign racial intent to the use

without really knowing the intent at all, you are by proxy banning the use of the word.

My opinion, I see we will disagree on this.

[cyberswede]

47. I'm not the one assigning racial intent to the use...those using it as a dog whistle are.

If racists didn't use the word as a stand-in for the n-word, the word's meaning would't have racist connotations.

Take it up with those assholes.

Have a nice Friday.

[NCTraveler]

10. This is where you want to plant your flag?

And this is how you want to plant your flag?

Really?

[Cheese Sandwich]

15. I've heard the way they use it on Fox News and it is racist when used like that

It's been a code word, a dog whistle, on the right wing media for a long time.

[backscatter712]

17. Depends on context.

If it's being used to refer to black people, then yes, the way it's used today, it's racist.

If you're referring to say Indiana Jones fighting off Nazi thugs, then thug has the old meaning of being a violent person,

[B2G]

21. So if you call a black criminal a thug, that's racist, but

if you call a white criminal a thug, it's not.

I need to write this stuff down.

[cyberswede]

29. When some call a black person a thug, it's a dog whistle for the n-word

Calling a white person a thug is not a dog whistle for the n-word.

Seems pretty simple.

If you want to keep using the word, that's your choice. But if people get the wrong idea that you're a racist, that's a possible result.

[B2G]

32. That is bullshit.

A thug is a thug, regardless of the color of their skin. The designation of the word is based on behavior, not race. The n word is totally based on race.

[cyberswede]

34. When it's used as a dog whistle, "thug" is totally based on race.

Your use of the word may not be dependent on race, but I guarantee you that there are plenty of people who DO use it based on race. (The Limbaugh quotes above are prime examples...he uses it that way, and his followers hear it that way).

I don't care at all if you use the word, but people might ascribe motives to it that you don't intend.

[backscatter712]

40. I agree. FAUX Noise has pioneered the dogwhistle meaning of "thug".

Tweeeeet!

[Throd]

19. How many other words will we allow intolerant morons to redefine?

And will there be a website so I can stay on top of this?

[NaturalHigh]

24. Plenty of people here will be happy to tell you what words you can't use.

Because, well you know - they don't really mean what they've always meant and someone might be offended by them.

[cyberswede]

31. I hope the "intolerant morons" you're referring to are those who use it as a dog whistle

...and not those who point it out.

And you don't need a website; you just need to be empathetic and observant.

[PeaceNikki]

22. oh, poor, poor you.

[oberliner]

23. Violent white soccer and hockey players are routinely called thugs

For what that is worth.

[cyberswede]

33. ...but not as a dog-whistle for the n-word. nt

[Behind the Aegis]

46. Think "Zionist."

Is it always code for "Jew?" No, but it sure as hell is used that way, including here, to be a code-word (dog whistle) for Jews. This is the same thing many are seeing with the use of the word "thug." I don't think it is elevated to the rank of "nigger", but it certainly is used as an alternative to that word. Someone above mentioned "gay" and how it transformed it's meaning and use. Well, there is also the use of "gay" now to mean "bad, evil, undesirable", so the context matters, which is what many are asking for people to understand in the use of the word "thug."

[DanTex]

28. That's what happens with language. Words acquire connotations through their usage.

[johnp3907]

35. Grow up.

[NaturalHigh]

41. Well that really added to the conversation.

[lapfog_1]

36. So the only TRUE people you can call "Thug"

are people that look like this...



Because they all belonged to the Thuggee cult in India.

That's where we got the term "Thug". And we have perverted it over time to refer to non-white collar criminals. Dropping the "collar" from the "common definition" and you end up where we are today.

So... the definition of the word (as understood by most people using it) has changed dramatically over time... and continues to change to the current (now argued) definition.

I would prefer only calling the members of the Thuggee cult "thugs" ( or even better, dropping Thug and call them Thuggees ). However, my old college linguistics professor constantly reminded me that "language is what the majority of people speaking the language define it to be".

Edit to fix a misspelling.

[VScott]

37. So, "Jack Booted Thugs" (JBT's), is still okay?

Hell... I use the term constantly.

But, what if the "JBT" is black?

Is it still okay to call that person a thug?

I'm so confused.

[B2G]

39. If they're white, you can call them thugs

If they're black, you can't.

Easy peasy.

[EL34x4]

44. Unless you're black

In which case, "A thug in black people's speech is somebody who is a ruffian but in being a ruffian is displaying a healthy sort of countercultural initiative, displaying a kind of resilience in the face of racism etc. "

-John McWhorter

http://www.npr.org/2015/04/30/403362626/the-racially-charged-meaning-behind-the-word-thug

[B2G]

45. Well duh. lol.

[Vinca]

48. I don't think so if I'm reading the wordphobia police correctly.

If you call a white a thug it MIGHT BE CONSTRUED as calling him one of the other guys who Emily Post says we can no longer call thugs. Even though they might loot, pillage and set fires, apparently they are just "misunderstood youth."

[petronius]

38. Context matters. It's clear that there are people who use the word as a dog whistle,

and it's equally clear that there situations where it's being used in its primary meaning. I think we can mostly tell the difference.

As far as using it on DU or elsewhere: if I'm aware that the conversation I'm in includes people who may misconstrue a term or understand it in a way that's different from my meaning, and that it will distract from my main point, then I have a choice. I can use the language as I see fit and accept that my message will be weakened or lost, or I can choose verbiage that best communicates what I really want to communicate (and avoid the distraction). I'd choose the latter, whether or not I particularly agree with the people who use some words differently than I do...