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brooklynite

(94,502 posts)
Fri May 1, 2015, 11:18 AM May 2015

CNN Breaking News: Six police officers have been charged in the death of Freddie Gray

Six police officers have been charged in the death of Freddie Gray, Baltimore State's Attorney Marilyn Mosby said today.

One officer -- the driver of the police van -- has been charged with several counts, including second-degree depraved-heart murder. Another officer has been charged with several counts, including manslaughter and involuntary manslaughter. Two other officers have been charged with several counts, including involuntary manslaughter. And two officers are charged with several counts, including second-degree assault.

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48 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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CNN Breaking News: Six police officers have been charged in the death of Freddie Gray (Original Post) brooklynite May 2015 OP
My faith in the justice system just got a shot of hope in the arm! MoonRiver May 2015 #1
What is the world coming to CNN with the correct story but just wait they will screw it up. gordianot May 2015 #2
Greatest Page for this important story! n/t CaliforniaPeggy May 2015 #3
Excellent news! Dr Hobbitstein May 2015 #4
I have been saying that Mayor Rawlings-Blake and Commissioner Batts want justice here. Vattel May 2015 #8
Yeah, after everything had gone down Dr Hobbitstein May 2015 #11
I love Baltimore, and Batts is definitely on the side of Baltimore. Vattel May 2015 #13
So is anyone going to investigate the bullshit WaPo "leak"? Warren Stupidity May 2015 #5
Manslaughter vs murder is probably a legal definition vs common definition issue. jeff47 May 2015 #14
Can someone please explain what "second degree depraved-heart" murder is? hamsterjill May 2015 #6
Callous indifference to human life. Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 #7
Thank you. hamsterjill May 2015 #9
Was the real crime when they put him into the paddy wagon without securing him with a seat belt? I'm KingCharlemagne May 2015 #15
The "rough ride" is what gave cause for the 2nd Degree murder charge. Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 #18
Thanks! I missed the opening few minutes of Ms. Mosby's press conference and so did not KingCharlemagne May 2015 #21
Thanks. (nt) Jackpine Radical May 2015 #42
i love the term. the officers were depraved indeed. Ed Suspicious May 2015 #31
Wikipedia has an entry on "Depraved-Heart Murder" bananas May 2015 #33
I wonder if this would have come down this way had the rioting not happened corkhead May 2015 #10
That is a very good question dumbcat May 2015 #22
"Depraved-heart culture." Jackpine Radical May 2015 #44
apt description heaven05 May 2015 #45
Great news! Jim__ May 2015 #12
finally. BlancheSplanchnik May 2015 #16
Good! Scurrilous May 2015 #17
WOW SunSeeker May 2015 #19
This is AWESOME news! cherokeeprogressive May 2015 #20
Something close to that is likely to happen brush May 2015 #30
Anyone know why the thread on this in Latest Threads was locked? It said it was off topic? Have jwirr May 2015 #23
Always look in the last post: this was a duplicate thread brooklynite May 2015 #25
Thank you. This old lady is not alway computer savvy. jwirr May 2015 #27
it was a duplicate OP magical thyme May 2015 #34
I hope the tide is turning MaggieD May 2015 #24
In this case, perhaps AgingAmerican May 2015 #26
I'm not overly optimistic MaggieD May 2015 #28
The time for establishing true professional standards for law enforcement RiverNoord May 2015 #29
have they actually been arrested? fbc May 2015 #32
Good question! grahamhgreen May 2015 #35
gawd--can we stop hearing how he hurt himself now? librechik May 2015 #36
does this have to go to a grand jury? Takket May 2015 #37
no it doesn't Vattel May 2015 #46
good! and I am also glad to see that the level of the charges seems appropriate Amishman May 2015 #38
I'm just quessing gwheezie May 2015 #39
i agree, thats why murder 2 against the driver is appropriate. Amishman May 2015 #43
There was clear, easily demonstrable intent to injure, if not to kill. Jackpine Radical May 2015 #47
kick samsingh May 2015 #40
higher ups should also be held accountable! G_j May 2015 #41
Any superior who participated in a coverup was an accessory after the fact, Jackpine Radical May 2015 #48
 

Dr Hobbitstein

(6,568 posts)
4. Excellent news!
Fri May 1, 2015, 11:27 AM
May 2015

Unlike Ferguson, I had complete faith in the city of Baltimore. Glad to see it wasn't misplaced.

 

Vattel

(9,289 posts)
8. I have been saying that Mayor Rawlings-Blake and Commissioner Batts want justice here.
Fri May 1, 2015, 11:33 AM
May 2015

They have been trying to address police misconduct, but it is not easy.

 

Dr Hobbitstein

(6,568 posts)
11. Yeah, after everything had gone down
Fri May 1, 2015, 11:36 AM
May 2015

I looked into Commissioner Batts, and realized he was cleaning up the corruption in the PD. A real life James Gordon, as it were. It takes time to rout out systematic corruption.

 

Warren Stupidity

(48,181 posts)
5. So is anyone going to investigate the bullshit WaPo "leak"?
Fri May 1, 2015, 11:29 AM
May 2015

or is that going to be swept under the rug?

Plus "involuntary manslaughter"? fuck that. There was nothing involuntary about this. They murdered him and they are all accomplices in murder.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
14. Manslaughter vs murder is probably a legal definition vs common definition issue.
Fri May 1, 2015, 11:41 AM
May 2015

Not familiar with MD law, but there's probably something that makes involuntary manslaughter the legally correct charge despite the common definition.

Failing to obtain medical treatment, for example, may not count as murder under MD statutes.

hamsterjill

(15,220 posts)
6. Can someone please explain what "second degree depraved-heart" murder is?
Fri May 1, 2015, 11:30 AM
May 2015

I'm not familiar with that term.

Thank you in advance.

Tommy_Carcetti

(43,173 posts)
7. Callous indifference to human life.
Fri May 1, 2015, 11:31 AM
May 2015

You don't have to necessarily plan to kill someone, but if you intentionally do something that places them in a position that there's a high probability they would die, you are guilty of murder.

 

KingCharlemagne

(7,908 posts)
15. Was the real crime when they put him into the paddy wagon without securing him with a seat belt? I'm
Fri May 1, 2015, 11:44 AM
May 2015

just trying to make sure I understand exactly what Ms. Mosby's office will have to prove to get a verdict of guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

Tommy_Carcetti

(43,173 posts)
18. The "rough ride" is what gave cause for the 2nd Degree murder charge.
Fri May 1, 2015, 11:46 AM
May 2015

Hence that's why the driver got that additional charge.

The failure to seat belt Gray would be manslaughter, since at the very least, it is gross negligence and a violation of protocol.

 

KingCharlemagne

(7,908 posts)
21. Thanks! I missed the opening few minutes of Ms. Mosby's press conference and so did not
Fri May 1, 2015, 11:49 AM
May 2015

hear her recapitulation of the full timeline. I got to it just as Ms. Mosby finished the timeline and began laying out the charges.

bananas

(27,509 posts)
33. Wikipedia has an entry on "Depraved-Heart Murder"
Fri May 1, 2015, 12:16 PM
May 2015
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depraved-heart_murder

Depraved-heart murder, also known as depraved-indifference murder, is an American legal term for an action that demonstrates a "callous disregard for human life" and results in death. In most states, depraved-heart killings constitute second-degree murder.[1]

If no death results, such acts would generally be defined as reckless endangerment (sometimes known as "culpable negligence&quot and possibly other crimes, such as assault.

Contents

1 Common law background
2 Under the Model Penal Code
3 International equivalents
4 References

<snip>

corkhead

(6,119 posts)
10. I wonder if this would have come down this way had the rioting not happened
Fri May 1, 2015, 11:35 AM
May 2015

I hope this sends a message far and wide to law enforcement that they are going to be held accountable for their "depraved-heart" actions culture.

dumbcat

(2,120 posts)
22. That is a very good question
Fri May 1, 2015, 11:50 AM
May 2015

and I really wish I knew the answer for sure. I'd like to say justice would have prevailed eventually, but I really don't believe it.

Jackpine Radical

(45,274 posts)
44. "Depraved-heart culture."
Fri May 1, 2015, 01:04 PM
May 2015

That is the most succinct description I have yet heard for cop culture, and as I think about it, it pretty much extends to the entire Republican contingent in Congress.

 

cherokeeprogressive

(24,853 posts)
20. This is AWESOME news!
Fri May 1, 2015, 11:48 AM
May 2015

Now all we need is for them to be tried together, in front of 12 Black Ladies with children.

brush

(53,764 posts)
30. Something close to that is likely to happen
Fri May 1, 2015, 12:09 PM
May 2015

Baltimore is a majority Black city.

Those prosecutors in Ferguson and Staten Island should be ashamed of themselves about now.

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
23. Anyone know why the thread on this in Latest Threads was locked? It said it was off topic? Have
Fri May 1, 2015, 11:53 AM
May 2015

not idea why they would do that. Thank you brooklynite for this one. In that post most of them were also charged with false imprisonment.

 

magical thyme

(14,881 posts)
34. it was a duplicate OP
Fri May 1, 2015, 12:17 PM
May 2015

same news was posted at 10:56 am. It's right near the top of late breaking news right now.

 

MaggieD

(7,393 posts)
24. I hope the tide is turning
Fri May 1, 2015, 11:54 AM
May 2015

Now we will wait and see if they are convicted. A few good convictions would resonant through police departments everywhere!

 

MaggieD

(7,393 posts)
28. I'm not overly optimistic
Fri May 1, 2015, 12:05 PM
May 2015

... just hopeful. I think one of the primary problems is that they have learned that in general they can get away with it. If a few of them get 20 to life maybe that will be instructional to some of the others.

 

RiverNoord

(1,150 posts)
29. The time for establishing true professional standards for law enforcement
Fri May 1, 2015, 12:06 PM
May 2015

has come. In particular, state law enforcement must adopt and commit to formal standards for use of force, handling of prisoners, de-escalation, and oversight.

Unfortunately, just like any other line of work, to get truly professional work you need to pay professional level salaries. Just the opposite of what is happening with to teachers...

Takket

(21,560 posts)
37. does this have to go to a grand jury?
Fri May 1, 2015, 12:30 PM
May 2015

and if so, will we see a repeat of Michael Brown where the prosecutor withheld evidence and acted as the defense attorney so no charges would be filed.... because I can't take another round of that.

Amishman

(5,555 posts)
38. good! and I am also glad to see that the level of the charges seems appropriate
Fri May 1, 2015, 12:31 PM
May 2015

Manslaughter against all and murder two against the driver seems about right. True murder charges against all would be a waste of time as it will be extremely difficult to prove intent (especially with the blue wall of silence). In general I can't support prosecutors overreaching and adding charges which they know won't stand up, and I'm not going to change my mind on that just for this case.

For murder charges to stick, the prosecution will need to prove intent. For the driver that might be possible as his activities behind the wheel could offer insight. But for the rest I cannot see how it can be proven unless someone speaks out or slips up.

Manslaughter should be much easier to prove for the rest. It pretty much comes down to the question 'did your reckless actions directly result in the death of another?'. That should be pretty easy to prove based on information we already know.

gwheezie

(3,580 posts)
39. I'm just quessing
Fri May 1, 2015, 12:38 PM
May 2015

But the van stopped several times and Freddie begged for medical attention. They had to pick him up off the floor twice. If the van driver knew he was injured and continued the rough ride, yeah that's murder.

Amishman

(5,555 posts)
43. i agree, thats why murder 2 against the driver is appropriate.
Fri May 1, 2015, 01:02 PM
May 2015

Intent can be judged by his driving. We don't have a measurable indicator of intent from the others (though we can certainly guess).

Jackpine Radical

(45,274 posts)
47. There was clear, easily demonstrable intent to injure, if not to kill.
Fri May 1, 2015, 01:23 PM
May 2015
Gray is not the first person to come out of a Baltimore police wagon with serious injuries. Relatives of Dondi Johnson Sr., who was left a paraplegic after a 2005 police van ride, won a $7.4 million verdict against police officers. A year earlier, Jeffrey Alston was awarded $39 million by a jury after he became paralyzed from the neck down as the result of a van ride. Others have also received payouts after filing lawsuits.

For some, such injuries have been inflicted by what is known as a "rough ride" — an "unsanctioned technique" in which police vans are driven to cause "injury or pain" to unbuckled, handcuffed detainees, former city police officer Charles J. Key testified as an expert five years ago in a lawsuit over Johnson's subsequent death.

As daily protests continue in the streets of Baltimore, authorities are trying to determine how Gray was injured, and their focus is on the 30-minute van ride that followed his arrest. "It's clear what happened, happened inside the van," Mayor Stephanie Rawlings-Blake said Monday at a news conference.

Christine Abbott, a 27-year-old assistant librarian at the Johns Hopkins University, is suing city officers in federal court, alleging that she got such a ride in 2012. According to the suit, officers cuffed Abbott's hands behind her back, threw her into a police van, left her unbuckled and "maniacally drove" her to the Northern District police station, "tossing [her] around the interior of the police van."

G_j

(40,366 posts)
41. higher ups should also be held accountable!
Fri May 1, 2015, 12:42 PM
May 2015

In all these cases, there has been systematic criminal behavior. There is more responsibility that needs to be taken.

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