I am trying to explain one of my winger relatives that this culture of someone running

[diabeticman]

as soon as they see a police officer/car does NOT mean they are guility. Yes, I am a white guy but I have lived in some depressed areas of cities I lived in. This view point of guility until proven innocent because they ran or in a certain area of town is just wrong. We need to stop with racial profiling we need to improve the economy in those areas.

I remember one time my wife and I where sitting on the porch speaking with the neighbors in the connected house. The gentleman was black and the girlfriend was biracial. We notice several cop cars go down on street a few minutes later they started going up and down our street and others around us. The black gentleman had left the porch to look down the street just to see what was going on. he was about to suggest especially my wife (who is very naïve) should go in when the cop car stopped in front of the connected house and started questioning our neighbor who was still basically on the property we share.

Why are you here? Where do you live?

My wife got pissed this was happening and called to the cop What's wrong? Why are you bothering my neighbor? He has been talking with us the whole time.

The cop kind of glared at my wife but got in the car and we didn't see a car go down are street again but the intersecting streets still had traffic for a half hour.

Anyways I got off subject and I am trying to prove to this winger relative that Freddie Gray was minding his own business and have been killed by the police.

I know the little boy in Ohio was just playing in like a park/court yard by his home when the police car just ran him over. But are there any other cases I can point too.

And just for my understanding--From what I heard Freddie Gray didn't have a record with police correct?

[bravenak]

1. I believe Freddie had a record.

He had issues related to the lead poisoning that he had won that lawsuit for, I believe ge was waiting to start recieving payments. He had behaviorial issues and other issues stemming from it. Maybe some drug charges, I can barely remember straight. Really dorsn't mean anything with the way the Baltimore PD seems to make up charges like the 'illegal' knife. That day, no crimes, just scared of cops, for good reason. We used to run as soon as we saw cops no matter what. Always. It was not even talked about most times. Just, 'oh, shit, the rollers!' And off we went.

[Aerows]

4. Even if he didn't have a record before that

they were hell-bent on making sure he DID have one. That isn't exactly a abnormal thing, either, unfortunately.

The thing a lot of people don't understand is that even being white doesn't protect you - it helps, but you can be harassed by the police for any number of reasons just because they are on a power trip.

Unless you whip out names and they recognize you, it doesn't matter who you are, you can get harassed by corrupt cops. I grew up in New Orleans, I'm white, and had two bad confrontations with the police. I was threatened with arrest just because an undercover cop was hitting on my girlfriend outside of a club (and he was higher than a kite on heaven only knows what).

I also had to call my LOCAL police department on the NOPD because they came to my jurisdiction to threaten me with arrest for hit and run (which is a farce because me and the lady that got into the minor fender bender exchanged info and that is how they knew exactly where to find me). I had to call the police to REMOVE the police. Thank god it happened at my place of business, instead of at home, because I would have probably never been heard from again.

I don't trust cops. You'd better believe the SECOND I get arrested the first words out of my mouth will be attorney, I plead the fifth. The crime I am likeliest to commit is running a stop sign.

[bravenak]

7. Yep. Attorney, plead the fifth.

They try to justify their suffocating presence by manufacturing crime to keep people scared enough to keep increasing funding. I think they went too far.

[Aerows]

9. NEVER EVER

Speak to law enforcement without an attorney present. They resent the hell out of it, but that's because they want to write their own narrative, not play by the actual rules of justice.

[bravenak]

10. I would never! I watch how they get us caught up on false confessions all the time.

And I watch lock-up. Many of those guys talk too much. Pretty sure half of them are there for talking to police when shutting up was more appropriate. I go the other way when I see cops. They swagger. Scary.

[malthaussen]

12. I was watching some episodes of the original Hawaii 5-0...

... with my mother recently, and Jack Lord was going off on a suspect in his inimitable manner, and I said "Hasn't that guy ever heard of Miranda?"

... my bad! He probably hadn't, Miranda v Arizona was settled after that episode. Which is something I tend to forget -- Miranda is something that happened in my lifetime. And if certain law enforcement officials have their way, it will be overturned in my lifetime.

-- Mal

[malthaussen]

8. Yeah, and make sure it is explicit.

Since the recent ruling by the USSC says that you must explicitly invoke your right to remain silent, or it is assumed you waive it.

-- Mal

[Aerows]

11. Absolutely

It will spare you much grief. Cops seem to enter a situation, and then make up their own story in their own heads about what actually happened, regardless of facts. That's why we get such things as "He severed his own spine", "he was resisting", "she was handcuffed but managed to shoot at police in the squad car".

You can't reason with someone that makes the story up as they go along, control the evidence and do everything they can to prevent the truth from doing anything other than aggrandizing the officers.

You just can't.

[malthaussen]

2. Feel free to tell your acquaintance...

... that I am a pure-bred child of white-boy privilege, with roots in this country that go back before the Revolution (and had ancestors who fought in that conflict, on our side no less), and that I cross the street whenever I see a police officer.

-- Mal

[Aerows]

5. Me, too

The less contact you have with the police, the better. If I saw one in a car accident or injured, I'd walk the hell away, because sooner or later you will get implicated as committing the "crime" whether you were involved or not.

Just stay the hell away from them.

[Alenne]

3. I don't think it matters if a person is running because they are guilty.

Even if he was guilty, running from the police is not a crime punishable by death.

[0rganism]

6. running != probable cause for arrest

there are all kinds of reasons to run.

maybe you're parked illegally, or think your parking meter's expired.

maybe you realized you're late to catch a bus.

maybe you just remembered you left the over on at home.

or maybe, just maybe, you're running in fear because you think someone dressed in a special uniform might try to harass you or injure you for no reason at all.

[diabeticman]

13. I know that is what I have been trying to tell this relative...they say that's not good enough.

[0rganism]

14. not good enough for what? not good enough for a LEO to avoid killing someone?

maybe this relative needs to be shunned.

[Downwinder]

15. Is it against the law to run?

If you see me running, can you tell why I am running?
Am I running back to lock the door, turn the stove off, or to get to the crapper? Maybe I am running so some THUG doesn't beat the shit out of me.