Why Black People Running From the Police Makes Perfect Sense

[eridani]

I was going to file this under "Thank you, Captain Obvious," but the study goes into quite a lot of telling detail.

http://inthesetimes.com/article/17882/why-black-people-running-from-the-police-makes-perfect-sense

These low-level warrants in particular are a huge issue with police interactions.

When I was writing this book, we didn’t know how many people had low-level warrants; we just weren’t collecting that data nationally. We now know that there’s about 2 million warrants that have been reported voluntarily to the database, and leaving a huge number that haven’t been reported. About 60% of these warrants are not for new crimes, but for technical violations of parole, unpaid court fees, unpaid child support, traffic fines, curfew violations, court fees. And it’s this group of people that are terrified. If they’re stopped by the cops, any of these reasons is enough to bring them in, to get them trapped into the system again.

It goes well beyond being guilty, or even just running from the cops. There’s this story in your book where this young man wants to get a state I.D. during the time he’s clean (i.e. free of warrants). But he just sits there—this big tough guy—and he can’t bring himself to go in.

If you’re part of this class, it means you don’t go to the hospital when you’re sick. You’re wary of visiting friends in the hospital or attending their funerals. Driving your kid to school can be daunting. You don’t have a driver’s license or ID. Most of the time, you can’t seek legal employment. You can’t get help from the government. It comes from, partly, growing up in a neighborhood where you’ve watched your uncles and brothers go to jail, and your aunts and mom entangled in the court system without ever getting free.

You note that women in particular face a great deal of police pressure to inform or cooperate in some fashion.

In a poll I did of the women [living in the four block radius of 6th Street], 67% said that they’d been pressured by the police to provide information on a male family member or partner in the last three years. If you’ve got a low-level warrant or some probation issue, you can be violated by authorities if you don’t inform when asked. So you’re really talking about a policing system that hinges on turning families against each other and sowing a lot of suspicion and distrust. It’s very ironic that people blame the breakdown of black family life on the number of black men behind bars when the policing strategies that put them there are exactly about breaking those family bonds.

[joshcryer]

1. I've seen enough episodes of COPS to agree with this.

I don't know why I watch COPS (I just watched yesterdays' episode where some guy got busted with marijuana and admitted to distribution, he'll be serving a good 5 years minimum, probably a lot more). Perhaps I watch just to sit there in bitter contemplation. I've seen literally one decent exchange that I can think of in over a decade of watching (interestingly, another marijuana case, but it was in Nevada, where the first offense of any amount of marijuana is a warning; they let some kid off with a glovebox full of marijuana).

Anyway, I'm rambling. COPS show police as these extremely aggressive people who basically ruin lives. It's also why I think police abuse is glossed over. The police on COPS take people down like in any video we've seen which led to injury, but we don't see massive injury, so we're conditioned to think it's acceptable.

There was a poster here who talked about how hard life is once you lose your ID and documentation. Forgot his name, Renew Deal? Randome? Started with an R. He pointed out that once he lost his documentation it was nearly impossible to get it back and he had zero recourse. Can't get a job can't get a place to live, can't do squat. Need a support system to even begin to recover from something like that. It's not just about not wanting to go in to get the documentation, it's about not having the various requirements to be able to get it back. If you can't prove who you are, you are a ghost.

[7962]

7. A guy who sometimes works for me had this problem

He couldnt get an ID without proving who he was, but the stuff that you need to prove who you are requires PROOF OF WHO YOU ARE. Which I understand, with the ID theft that goes on. But he ended up getting his ex-wife in another state to send him a copy of their marriage and divorce papers and tat got him his SS card which finally got him his license.
But it took a LONG time to accomplish all this. And if I didnt keep pushing him he wouldnt have done it. he said "screw it" many times, but I kept after him.

[Enthusiast]

11. Thanks, good post. Why do I watch Cops?

Because there isn't anything else watchable on. At least Cops is semi-entertaining. I often find myself taking the side of the "criminal".

[joshcryer]

16. I take their side a lot.

I mean 60% of the time I view it as an unreasonable stop. Guys walking near the street because there's no sidewalk, guys walking with an unopened container that the cop considers open. Like is said in the Don't Talk To Police video, a cop can follow you for 2-3 minutes and find something to stop you on. And cops think that way. There's obviously a lot of profiling going on, too, but they throw in a token white person at least once an episode.

But yeah it's an easy 20 minute watch (skipping commercials) and sometimes you get to see some interesting drama. I often find myself fast forwarding through some stops even, where there's a lot of talking.

[BumRushDaShow]

2. This was one of the issues that came out in Ferguson

and notably, with respect to voting. I.e., a number of residents got "trapped in the system", perhaps starting from something as innocuous as a jaywalking citation... And when trying to resolve that issue at the courthouse, due to sheer numbers of others attempting to do the same, they were locked out when standing in line to go in and/or when the courthouse doors closed earlier than their report time, thus piling on another citation and fines and a warrant. It's an analogous tactic employed by sharecropper farms, where the worker would rarely if ever be able to earn and keep any income, let alone a little extra, because the owner concocted all sorts of reasons to overcharge the worker family (for use of land, cost of seed, use of equipment, etc), forcing them to remain and work to pay off the concocted "debt".

Both practices become a vicious cycle that essentially immobilizes people from any participation in their community, and were designed to exercise oppressive control over them. And RWers insist on people "pulling themselves up from their bootstraps" while foreigners come here and wonder "What is wrong with black people?", yet once they see or experience "the system", they go silent.

[Joe Chi Minh]

3. Nightmare upon nightmare. Most, for additional profits for individuals,

already rich beyond the dreams of avarice.

[noiretextatique]

5. is there a law against being black?

maybe there should be so you assholes can stop grasping at straws.

[Oktober]

6. No... but when someone is `in-between warrants'...

... It can give you a clue as to what they are about.

[Number23]

12. It tickles me that you don't think that you are obvious as all hell

[Gemini Cat]

8. Yeah, whatever.

[Gormy Cuss]

9. That works if you're white and working.

RTFL.

[Lee-Lee]

10. While I can have sympathy sometimes

Let's be a bit more realistic.


You don't get a warrant just for traffic fines. You get a warrant for getting a ticket and not paying the fine or showing up to court to contest it. That's a choice- and it has repercussions. If you want traffic laws to exist, you have to have enforcement- that means fines, that means enforcement if someone blows off a fine.

It's a snowball effect I saw a lot. People would take a ticket- something minor that's not a big deal. They would blow it off and not pay it (or call the clerk and say they couldn't pay, in our area they would take 10% a month in a payment plan if you claimed hardship) and not show up for court. Then yes, they get a warrant for Failure to Appear. Then they don't make any arrangements (once again, just going by and paying would get the FTA warrant revoked) and go into the cycle of stupid decisions- like running the next time they went to get pulled over. Now they turned a couple misdemeanors into a felony or two.

But is that really the systems fault? Sure, if it's a case of municipalities using BS charges to raise money like Fergeson I can say the system has blame. But we didn't do that, we wrote few tickets. Causing a minor issue to get escalated was all the persons poor choices and stupid moves, or them just being irresponsible.

I also would not lump child support warrants into that- you have to be seriously behind on your support and making no effort to pay to get a warrant issued- and when a parent is being a deadbeat I can't have much sympathy. Once again, if you want these laws at some point breaking them has to have consequences.

Running from a cop? Stupid. Mega stupid. Your just making whatever bad situation worse. It's never good advice, never a good plan.

Yes, sometimes cops are out of line. You still are not going to win that battle in the street- ever. Fight it in courts, where you may win. On the street if you fight you just make it worse, and harm your case in court.

[romanic]

13. Excellent post.

I also want to add that everyone, black and otherwise should read up on the law and know your rights.

Diffuse the situation before they "do".

[uponit7771]

18. In cities where you're a threat because of your skin color meaning the cops can kill you because of

... the way they "feel" around you I don' know if any of that adivise is good.

I don't know how many videos have to be shown of cops killing blacks because they can to make people notice these bastards are terrorist in some cities

[strategery blunder]

14. The only problem is cops are showing you might not even survive to fight it in court

Of course, the outcome for resolving a dispute with a cop on the street is little better. But in our most recent example, Freddie Gray was illegally stopped (how rare is it for a prosecutor to be that forthcoming that an arrest is illegal on national TV again?), and the cops for all intents and purposes decapitated him before he ever had the chance to speak with a lawyer. I guess the cops aren't technically beheading enemies like ISIS yet but their actions had the same effect albeit with less blood splatter.

In order for policing to be legitimate, the policed must have confidence that they will live to speak to a lawyer. That is not uniformly the case in America, we are not all equal under the law, and that must change.

[uponit7771]

17. WOW!! in a neighborhood where interaction with the police is safe running makes no sense...

... but in a neighborhood where the police treat you like this

[img][/img]

Running makes perfect sense...

I lived in the first, they hated me and my friends and were supremacist about it too...

There's no need to give THOSE kind of LEOs the benefit of the doubt

[Lee-Lee]

21. No- it still doesn't make sense

Consider the numbers- how many arrests per year in those neighborhoods? How many killed by police?

Even without asking how many of those killed or injured during arrest were trying to win it on the streets by fighting or running- even in those area statisticly an arrest is still not very likely to result in what you describe.

Yes, I know that it's not cool to look at things in the big picture, but rather to claim the exceptions are the rule.

But when you do that and further encourage minority youth to fight police or run, you are doing absolutely nothing but giving horrible advice and guidance that is going to cause them more pain and hardship and maybe ruin thier lives and futures by turning a minor deal into a big one.

Even in the worst place in the nation with the most corrupt police, you are still only making things worse for yourself and increasing the odds of a bad outcome by running and/or fighting with the cops in the street. That is the reality- and you can't show me any department with statistics showing otherwise.

Document, record, have others do so, fight it in court. Especially now the unprecedented availability of video and audio recording devices in everyone's pockets makes that easier than ever before. When the cops are in the wrong you can win it that way in court and/or in the press.

Don't get stupid and try to win it on the streets by running or fighting. You won't.

[sadoldgirl]

15. Let me state that I am white, but

live in a mostly black neighborhood.And yes, I can not only
understand the black youths who try to run from the cops,
I feel with them.
Example: Something happened on my street, I don't even
remember what. When I turned into my street, the cops waved
me on. Three of my neighbors, black of course, were stopped,
interrogated and harassed before they could get home. None
of these neighbors had the slightest idea about whatever
happened. And, what upset me most is they took it in stride.

That should make everyone think! And, yes, they scare the hell
out of their kids to avoid any contact with the police. I know
most of my neighbors and would stand up for them if needed.

For heavens sake the cops harassed a seven year old and wanted
to take him to the station without any permit of his parents.
See the reality, please, if you can.

[Lee-Lee]

23. You do realize of course...

That after an incident when the police are trying to find a suspect they will concentrate on people meeting the description.

If I get a call that a white teen male just robbed a store, I am going to wave a 40-something white female on by and question and give more scrutiny to a 12 or 22 year old white male.

You can't ascribe what you described above to racism automatically- they could have been looking for a black male as a result of witness or victim accounts. In that case it's not racist to stop and question black males, it's just what you do.

I'm not saying there are not racist police and that some don't treat minorities differently based in bias. But that doesn't mean that what you described about was a result of racism automatically.

[gwheezie]

19. I'm an old white woman and I'd avoid them

Why would they be even walking to me or speaking to me? Best to stay away from the police.

[backscatter712]

20. Don't forget the biggest reason:

Running frequently works.

Obviously, you don't want to hop in a car and peel out in rush hour traffic, then you'll get 200 cops running you down.

But if you sprint over a fence, then down the block, then into a neighbor's house before the cops can figure out where you went, that's a clean getaway.

Shows like COPS will portray running from the police as an endeavor that is futile, and will just lead to you getting your ass kicked. In reality, sometimes, you can get away.

From this article: http://inthesetimes.com/article/17882/why-black-people-running-from-the-police-makes-perfect-sense

Those who interact rarely with the police may assume that running away after a police stop is futile. Worse, it could lead to increased charges or to violence. While the second part is true, the first is not. In my first eighteen months on 6th Street, I observed a young man running after he had been stopped on 41 different occasions. Of these, 8 involved men fleeing their houses during raids; 23 involved men running after being stopped while on foot (including running after the police had approached a group of people of whom the man was a part); 6 involved car chases; and 2 involved a combination of car and foot chases, where the chase began by car and continued with the man getting out and running.

In 24 of these cases, the man got away. In 17 of the 24, the police didn’t appear to know who the man was and couldn’t bring any charges against him after he had fled. Even in cases where the police subsequently charged him with fleeing or other crimes, the successful getaway allowed the man to stay out of jail longer than he might have if he’d simply permitted the police to cuff him and take him in.

[Lee-Lee]

22. When I was a deputy we caught almost all runners

Maybe 10% who ran got away clean.

Even that number may be high.

Now if we knew who the person was, we were more likely to look with less effort after an initial chase and instead just go get warrants for the new charges and set up watching where we knew they would turn up. We always got them eventually- they just ended up making things a lot worse when we did in exchange for that few days or weeks they eluded. A bad trade.

If we didn't know thier identity we worked it a lot harder- and you won't beat the dogs. Establish a perimeter and bring in dogs, if it was a serious enough pending charge we hit the Highway Patrol helicopter- we did that for a rape case, took 12 hours but we got him.

The few that made it away clean were ones that ran on foot and managed to make it to a vehicle we didn't know the description of before a perimeter was established- either stealing a car or having someone pick them up. And it helped if they were undocumented immigrants since they likely didn't have a name we could look up to get info on if we got a name, and were less likely to have fingerprints in the system.

But everyone who ran like that save for the exceptions we didn't catch eventually got a nice felony charge added on- mostly to what otherwise would have been a misdemeanor or in the absence of them running a minor felony they could have made a plea deal and taken down to a misdemeanor.

I remember one case where all we had was fingerprints from someone who ran from a B&E. Didn't catch him, no matches on record for the prints. Fast foward 4 years and he is arrested for DUI- prints came back against what we had on file and he got served for several felony charges and was picked up by our deputy and brought halfway back across the state.

Once again, advising anyone to run or fight the police is absolutely moronic, stupid advice that is highly likely to result in an outcome bad for them and their future.