Bernie Sanders: The Trans-Pacific Trade (TPP) agreement must be defeated

[ellenrr]

"The Trans-Pacific Partnership is a disastrous trade agreement designed to protect the interests of the largest multi-national corporations at the expense of workers, consumers, the environment and the foundations of American democracy.
It will also negatively impact some of the poorest people in the world."

http://www.sanders.senate.gov/download/the-trans-pacific-trade-tpp-agreement-must-be-defeated?inline=file


so- one reason I stay on du is I like to understand how peoples' minds who think differently than me, work.
so, is it if someone is an Obama supporter, BUT they also have values of being pro-worker, pro-environment, that if Obama supports legislature that conflicts with their values, then what?
do they deny the facts?
or twist the facts?

[ucrdem]

1. I think the best way to understand it is that Sanders and Obama have different goals.

Barack is negotiating a 12-party international trade treaty that plays an important role in his plans for economic recovery. It has a lot of moving parts, isn't finished, and isn't easily characterized. Eventually it will need to be passed in some form.

Bernie is running an election campaign fashioned around popular opposition to NAFTA and similar treaties. Since all politicians understand the necessity of elections, I think they're inclined to make allowances, but there are limits and evidently Obama thought Warren was crossing them last week, so he called her out. If Bernie overdoes it I imagine Barack will be compelled to call him out too.

Hope that helps!

[ellenrr]

3. I imagine I didn't express myself clearly. The TPP will wreck even more devastation

than already exists in our world - re the environment, extinction of species, re oppression of people already oppressed, re workers' right which are already bottomed out....

Your claim about moving parts, etc is an attempt to distance yourself - via some intellectualizing.
if that makes you feel better, so be it.
yes it will pass.
and the world and its inhabitants will proceed merrily to extinction, a little faster.

[ucrdem]

4. There's a lot of information about the goals, framework, and progress of this agreement

at the USTR and State Department sites so all I can suggest is that you take a closer look at that information and not rely on exclusively on media reports which tend to be inaccurate:

https://ustr.gov/tpp

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/pl/2013/214166.htm

Good luck!

[cali]

5. tons of information here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026609504

good links to organizations you probably support too!



I have dozens of other links to reputable organizations and experts.

[salib]

16. It is tough to reply positively to the TPP

Really appreciate a very civil attempt here.

Responses that simply deny the veracity of facts or authenticity of the agenda of sources, while perhaps important, are not really the point of the OP.

I would argue that it is one of cross purposes here. Quite often the underlying assumptions (and reasons based upon those) for supporters are:
1. The TPP is necessary for Improvement of the economy,trade deficit, etc (I put this first because of the response above although it is not the most common one in my experience)
2. It will be strategically geopolitical to keep the enemies at bay, specifically Russia and China.
3. It will finally bring some environmental and labor/civil rights protections to trade with otherwise near slave labor countries
4. Simple free trade arguments that we must be as open to trade as possible as it is an inherent good.

Also, always in there is the point that it is not finalized and thus any criticism may be moot, is likely being fixed, and thus we should reserve judgement.

I think that is most of it.

From the above we have a mixture of memes from a mixture of perspectives, but it certainly feels third way like and informed by neo con/liberal flourishes.

But, I have already argued that I believe this is mostly driven by disaster capitalistic goals. I.e., convince the power that be that:
1. The economy is only truly going to recover if we "deal with" trade and the trade deficit
2. Our enemies are not free trade countries, so what better to reduce their influence on other countries and corporations than to establish "our brand of freedom" first
3. Global warming and most other environmental concerns are world-wide problems and can only be realistically addressed with a world authority of some kind
4. Civil and labor rights abuses are rampant with out current trading partners, so something must be done.

And of course the old one that our enemies definitely do not care about the global environment and rights, so this is the right course and the time is now if not yesterday.

Wow, what an opportunity for making the ultimate killing (putting the Great Recession to shame) and in trade it will the golden goose that keeps on giving.

Now, look at who appears to have nearly all of the say (so called advice) in the process and you see what this is.

[TM99]

7. That is rather disingenuous.

Your implication with this post is that Obama is a serious man doing what is best for our economic recovery with no concerns for how it plays out in the polls.

You then infer that Sanders opposition is solely because of his election campaign.

What an utter pile of bullshit!

Sanders has been consistent since he first entered the political arena more than 30 years ago that these types of global free trade agreements have been and will continue to be devastating to the US economy. He has the facts to back this up as well.

All of the 'leaked' information shows that the TPP is not about economic recovery, well at least not for the US.

And no, it will not need to be eventually passed in some form. With any hope, the people through representation can stymie Obama on this until he is out of office. Then the next President, hopefully Sanders, can scuttle this trade agreement for more solid economic recovery legislation.

[ucrdem]

8. Bernie can't unring the bell and neither can Barack.

Have you even been to Oakland or Long Beach? Or a Target store? And TPP is happening whether the US is on board or not. It's easy to say a treaty must be stopped but presidents are elected to make them happen. And if you're going to tell me Bernie would do anything differently please tell me how because I haven't heard it from him.

[TM99]

9. Yes, actually things could be reversed.

Read history.

No Presidents are not elected to create trade agreements so bad for our country that every single one of his party allies are against him on it.

[cali]

10. no,the tpp will not happen if the U.S. doesn't sign on.

They may or may not forge something based on the tpp, but it won't be the tpp. The U.S. is by FAR, the largest potential market.

Furthermore, presidents aren't elected to "make them (ftas) happen). Encouraging trade, negotiating it, are part of the job. Pushing ftas as the only solution is not.

And if you haven't heard what Bernie would do differently, do your own research. You have a solid habit of refusing to even acknowledge links that don't fit into your Obamacentric view on this- or anything else.

[pampango]

15. Obama's TPP will not survive a US' rejection anymore than FDR's ITO did.

The US was/is the driving force behind both. It may be revived in some form in the future. Who knows.

Of course, other countries negotiate their own trade agreements with each other. Sometimes they include the US; often they do not. That will continue. If we aren't part of a trade agreement with a country our trade is governed by WTO rules. Life (and trade) will go on. Whether it will be better of worse is the deciding factor in whether one supports the current TPP.

[mtasselin]

12. sorry

I am afraid that you don't understand what TPP is really all about. I voted twice for the president, but that doesn't mean he gets a free ride and says trust me, and no I don't trust him. America has not had a trade agreement in the last 40 years where America has had a net gain of jobs. Please goggle TPP and read the information that is there, and there are many sites you can go to. President Obama will have a huge payback if this passes just as Clinton did with nafta, you don't think the Clintons are worth over 100 million just because know because he gave the corporations what they wanted which at the time was nafta. Thank you for your time.

[mtasselin]

13. if

If this such a great agreement tell me why "WE the People" can't see until after it is voted on, where is the transparency if we are to continue to have free society for "We the People" it is important that we don't have a secret agreement like TPP, show us the agreement before the vote and let "We the People" decide. I am on national call-in just about every Sunday and the information that is coming out is scary, if only you would take the time to become informed we wouldn't be having this conversation because you would see how bad it is.

[cali]

14. we will see it before it's voted on. should the tpa (trade promotion authority)

pass, and before the tpp is voted on, the agreement itself will be public for 60 days.

[cali]

2. thanks for posting. to answer your questions:

I think people believe what they want to believe and many of those here who support this or claim they're waiting to see it before making up their minds (all the while refusing to look at WHY so many people and organizations they have common ground with, oppose it), are so invested in President Obama that they can't bear the thought that he's championing something that could be so bad.

[marmar]

6. Honestly, I think many of them know the TPP is toxic......

...... and if this was happening under the previous administration, they'd be screaming bloody murder. But sadly, as we've seen on a number of issues, party can trump principle at DU too. Doesn't matter that traditional Democratic constituencies -- labor, environmental groups, civil rights organizations -- along with the ACLU, internet freedom groups, economists like Joseph Stiglitz and Dean Baker and so on and so on oppose it. Cognitive dissonance on steroids.

[ellenrr]

11. too true

[woo me with science]

17. K&R

[woo me with science]

18. kick