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nashville_brook

(20,958 posts)
Sun May 3, 2015, 03:21 PM May 2015

What DO you call it when democracy is broken at the behest of business?


http://thefloridasqueeze.com/2015/05/03/what-do-you-call-it-when-democracy-is-broken-at-the-behest-of-business/


“Democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic state itself.” — Franklin D. Roosevelt, April 29, 1938 (Letter to Congress on the problem of Curbing Monopolies)

We sometimes forget that private monied interests have been campaigning for “small government” since long before Grover Norquist dreamt of drowning government in the bathtub. In this letter to Congress on curbing monopolies, Roosevelt warns that government must be strong enough to make corporations play by the rules or else we’ll be playing by their rules. Implicit is the idea that our interests don’t necessarily align.

The very next words that he wrote were, “that, in its essence, is Fascism—ownership of Government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power.” Does the word “fascism” shock you the way it does me? I read this and thought “Didn’t FDR know that the first person to mention Nazis loses the argument?” But of course he hadn’t heard that (Godwin’s Law was coined in 1990), and he was dealing with real Nazis, so we have to cut him slack here.

When Roosevelt wrote this, I believe he chose his words carefully. In 1933 he’d encountered a group of right-wing bankers who tried to convince him to turn over his power to them in a corporatist government backed by the military. By the time he wrote this letter he’d already dealt with on attempt by big business to topple democracy in order to muscle its way into power. He called these Wall Street bankers “economic royalists” and warned: “give them their way and they will take the course of every aristocracy of the past – power for themselves, enslavement for the public.”

Wall Street bankers grabbing power for themselves is a very familiar tune. As a matter of fact, the Trans-Pacific Partnership is an overt attempt to achieve many of the end results of a corporate government that Roosevelt warned about.

The TPP asks us to deputize private interests to run public policy as a profit center. This is antithetical to democracy as FDR points out later in his letter: “We believe in a way of living in which political democracy and free private enterprise for profit should serve and protect each other—to ensure a maximum of human liberty not for a few but for all.” As a successful capitalist Roosevelt knew that you can’t have a healthy business environment without fair rules of the road.

We know through leaks that the TPP seeks to tilt those rules toward the largest, most lawyered-up global businesses. Members of the Senate who’ve seen the actual TPP document are so alarmed they’re asking for it to be declassified. Currently they’re only allowed to read it with a minder present (no notes, no photos), and aren’t allowed to discuss it with the public. A staffer can read it only if their Senator is there with them by their side. That’s why Senators Elizabeth Warren and Sherrod Brown challenged President Obama to release the text of the negotiation to the public.

Regardless of the secrecy, we know that the most shocking features of the TPP gives corporate lawyers the ability to preempt “non-tariff barriers” to trade that could impact “expected future profits.”

Let’s be clear — non-tariff barriers are government policies that make it possible to have safe food, good jobs and a clean environment. Basically, this is what Republicans call “big government.” Under TPP, 500 the lawyers for the 1% were empowered to identify government policies on health, environment, labor and safety, that could impact business’ future profit with the intent of preempting any barrier to profit. These are the details they won’t let us see. On this subject, the usually understated Sierra Club says “these provisions elevate corporations to the level of nation states and allow them to sue governments over nearly any law or policy which reduces their future profits.”



(more at link)

http://thefloridasqueeze.com/2015/05/03/what-do-you-call-it-when-democracy-is-broken-at-the-behest-of-business/
85 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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What DO you call it when democracy is broken at the behest of business? (Original Post) nashville_brook May 2015 OP
I know what FDR called it - Fascism leveymg May 2015 #1
+1 to infinity n/t gelsdorf May 2015 #2
That term was certainly my candidate. Jackpine Radical May 2015 #18
That is exactly correct. eom JEB May 2015 #25
why is our response to fascism so muted? nashville_brook May 2015 #73
Because I live out in the country Jackpine Radical May 2015 #76
hee hee :) nashville_brook May 2015 #83
i hope more people are starting to understand what's really going on. nashville_brook May 2015 #44
Excellent OP. Thanks, esp. for including quotes and FDR who well knew the ruthlessness of appalachiablue May 2015 #78
I call it a corporate fascist coup. ananda May 2015 #3
you know winetourdriver May 2015 #7
know your BFEE volstork May 2015 #15
+1 calling Octafish! nashville_brook May 2015 #67
And centrists are helping them. cui bono May 2015 #4
yes they are. not all intentionally -- many are just ill-informed, or don't grasp the entirety of the problem. nashville_brook May 2015 #16
Yes, but the ones in power implementing moderate Republican policies know. cui bono May 2015 #22
Helping corporate fascism has become what "centrist" means. n/t DirkGently May 2015 #79
Good post. PatrickforO May 2015 #5
there's so much urgency in these messages. we have to wake up. nashville_brook May 2015 #13
So true about the short-term focus of modern capitalism. hifiguy May 2015 #24
Thanks! I did not know it was Lenin who said that about the rope. PatrickforO May 2015 #39
Fascism for a thousand, Alex! Octafish May 2015 #6
i think it's important, for myself, to cop to the fact that I actually "supported" globalism nashville_brook May 2015 #11
Globalism is only a means for the greedy assholes to take maximum advantage of us. Enthusiast May 2015 #57
you'd think the "black helicopter" people would be up in arms about this nashville_brook May 2015 #66
I guess their only source of information is Alex Jones. Enthusiast May 2015 #81
apparently! nashville_brook May 2015 #85
Vote for Bernie Sanders. I don't see any other way of fixing it. Autumn May 2015 #8
Voting for Bernie appears to be the only possible solution. Enthusiast May 2015 #59
this is why we've seen such an explosion of Bernie support here nashville_brook May 2015 #70
Interesting. kentuck May 2015 #9
Jefferson understood the problem, moondust May 2015 #10
indeed. i feel like Eisenhower gave the last great warning, when it was too late... nashville_brook May 2015 #12
Lately I've wondered moondust May 2015 #17
halliburton, brown bros, KBR...they all learned how profitable unending war can be nashville_brook May 2015 #74
One of my favorite Jefferson quotations! hifiguy May 2015 #23
I LIKE that. DirkGently May 2015 #49
+1! They just didn't have a name for it then. It existed nonetheless. Enthusiast May 2015 #58
Thank you.. good article mountain grammy May 2015 #14
it's scary what flies under the radar in state and local politics! nashville_brook May 2015 #65
corporate coup d'etat? heaven05 May 2015 #19
1963. Jackpine Radical May 2015 #26
Well if you had to put a date on it I would say 1963. zeemike May 2015 #34
i totally agree. there's been an accrual of power that's been exercised in shocking ways. nashville_brook May 2015 #42
To answer the question: it's called a plutocracy. Exilednight May 2015 #20
or kleptocracy. i try to avoid those words b/c as academic language they tend to hide nashville_brook May 2015 #28
Giovanni Gentile and Benito Mussolini called it fascism hifiguy May 2015 #21
you know what's funny about that Mussolini quote... nashville_brook May 2015 #30
It's attributed to Mussolini but it was actually written by Gentile hifiguy May 2015 #35
OH! in the manifesto! that makes total sense! nashville_brook May 2015 #37
Well that bears repeating a few million times. DirkGently May 2015 #52
fascism . orpupilofnature57 May 2015 #27
Finally After Many Decades, Since Bretton Woods in 1947... mckara May 2015 #29
The US of ADD. nashville_brook May 2015 #32
+1 mckara May 2015 #36
The Cost of Doing Business Demeter May 2015 #31
i HEAR ya! you know who put me on to this is Alan Grayson. nashville_brook May 2015 #33
That video is FANTASTIC. Simple, but true. DirkGently May 2015 #51
+1 an entire shit load. Enthusiast May 2015 #60
It is kleptocracy. kairos12 May 2015 #38
Ooh! Ooh! I know this one! "Here." n/t Bossy Monkey May 2015 #40
Business as usual - TBF May 2015 #41
Evil is truly banal. it IS business as usual for many people...i bet most of which don't have a clue nashville_brook May 2015 #43
This message was self-deleted by its author TRoN33 May 2015 #45
Holy shit. "TPP gives corporate lawyers the ability to preempt “non-tariff barriers” to trade" GoneFishin May 2015 #46
and the weirdest thing is that Alan Grayson has been sounding this alarm since at least 2013 nashville_brook May 2015 #48
From your link : "Canada has ... been sued for ... taxing windfall profits by oil companies." GoneFishin May 2015 #54
that is the fear, at least -- and it seems to be the case. we need to see the whole document. nashville_brook May 2015 #71
+++ Fascism creeps in on little loafered Banker feet DirkGently May 2015 #47
here's a piece by Ezra Klein in VOX that I believe makes the case for getting real about fascism nashville_brook May 2015 #50
Call it the Robin Hood reversal sadoldgirl May 2015 #53
i believe that we already have that with private prisons nashville_brook May 2015 #68
That's another reason the right calls Obama a nazi and fascist. Because it is actually true that GoneFishin May 2015 #55
but, it's an argument we don't use... nashville_brook May 2015 #64
You are correct. There are many who call themselves Dems who are sympathetic to rightwing economic GoneFishin May 2015 #69
it's much more efficient to achieve their ends thru secret trade agreement nashville_brook May 2015 #72
Plutocracy would be the right term. bobjacksonk2832 May 2015 #56
K&R! This post should have hundreds of recommendations! Enthusiast May 2015 #61
"The 1920's and early 30's." FDR and Truman knew it. The ITO was to keep it from returning. pampango May 2015 #62
it's completely unsustainable, what we have now. nashville_brook May 2015 #75
What we do need is a trade agreement(s) or organization, like the ITO, that would be focused on pampango May 2015 #80
loves me some FDR NuttyFluffers May 2015 #63
Business as usual for most politicians. nt Erich Bloodaxe BSN May 2015 #77
+1 nashville_brook May 2015 #82
Plutocracy. It is what those three asshole charlitans wanted in your picture and they got it. Rex May 2015 #84

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
1. I know what FDR called it - Fascism
Sun May 3, 2015, 03:30 PM
May 2015

“The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerated the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than the democratic state itself.

That in its essence is fascism: ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or any controlling private power.”

― Franklin D. Roosevelt

nashville_brook

(20,958 posts)
44. i hope more people are starting to understand what's really going on.
Sun May 3, 2015, 06:19 PM
May 2015

the TPP gives up a perfect opportunity to discuss it.

appalachiablue

(41,127 posts)
78. Excellent OP. Thanks, esp. for including quotes and FDR who well knew the ruthlessness of
Mon May 4, 2015, 12:31 PM
May 2015

the powerful who opposed his policies the very first year, in 1933 soon after his inauguration. Major industrialists then planned a coup take over of the WH with the assistance of military leader Smedley Butler and a veterans army. Thankfully Butler said no to the industrialists' Business Plot and had the courage to stand up for democracy and testify about the affair before Congress the next year, in 1934.

 

winetourdriver

(196 posts)
7. you know
Sun May 3, 2015, 04:01 PM
May 2015

When I think of these fascist bastards, I think of the millions of people fighting against fascism during WWII and it makes me SICK! What did all those people die for?

volstork

(5,400 posts)
15. know your BFEE
Sun May 3, 2015, 04:46 PM
May 2015

Prescott Bush had his company's assets seized in 1942 under the Trading with the Enemy Act when his support of the founders of Nazism was uncovered. How anyone cannot think the current fascist state of America is not tied to the Bushes is completely beyond me.

If everyone knew this history, the repercussions would be astounding...

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/sep/25/usa.secondworldwar

nashville_brook

(20,958 posts)
16. yes they are. not all intentionally -- many are just ill-informed, or don't grasp the entirety of the problem.
Sun May 3, 2015, 04:49 PM
May 2015

too many view politics like sport where a "team" wins, which ignores policy entirely.

PatrickforO

(14,570 posts)
5. Good post.
Sun May 3, 2015, 03:56 PM
May 2015

For the last several elections we've been going down the path. Even Obama's election and reelection only slowed the process. And why is he touting the TPP now???

Unless we get a good populist message out and show up at the polls, we're screwed.

Unfortunately, capitalism can't see beyond the end of its nose; short term profit is everything. I've got a friend who says that a capitalist will sell you the rope you're going to use to hang them.

The moral of the story is that capitalism has been such a cancer on the earth that it is now actually destroying the earth.

So if we lose this coming one, our species will lose. Maybe permanently.

nashville_brook

(20,958 posts)
13. there's so much urgency in these messages. we have to wake up.
Sun May 3, 2015, 04:41 PM
May 2015

i spend a lot of time on the water kayaking, either in the springs here in FL or around estuaries or coral down in the keys. we're well into a "tipping point" here in FL. we're about to have a water problem like CA, but it will be b/c our water is fouled from salt water intrusion (what happens when we use more water than we have, the ocean seeps into our aquifer). On the other end of the stick, the pH is so off in the keys that the corals are dying...and with them go whole ecosystems. Ugh...i could go on and on. there's so many attacks on our fragile habitat and so little being done to help.

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
24. So true about the short-term focus of modern capitalism.
Sun May 3, 2015, 05:20 PM
May 2015

Lenin was right when he said the capitalists would sell him the rope he would use to hang them.

nashville_brook

(20,958 posts)
11. i think it's important, for myself, to cop to the fact that I actually "supported" globalism
Sun May 3, 2015, 04:32 PM
May 2015

in the 90s. I was young and my idea of "globalism" was 'everyone would have SE30s and we'd all telecommute doing fascinating cultural production projects.' which SOME people can do now...getting paid for it is another issue entirely.

I wasn't so much behind Clinton as I was Steve Jobs. I didn't understand about manufacturing, so when it was pitched as "this will be great for the environment" I was like, sign me up. But what was hidden in that is that we'd have no more industrial base, which has been worse for the environment b/c we've switched to resource extraction like fracking which is way dirtier.

they lied to us then, and they're lying to us now. I fell for it once, but i'm not getting fooled again. and neither should anyone else.

Enthusiast

(50,983 posts)
57. Globalism is only a means for the greedy assholes to take maximum advantage of us.
Mon May 4, 2015, 06:12 AM
May 2015

How often have we heard them say, "Globalism is here to stay, better get used to it."

nashville_brook

(20,958 posts)
66. you'd think the "black helicopter" people would be up in arms about this
Mon May 4, 2015, 09:59 AM
May 2015

there's a stretch of road on I-10 to Tallahassee where a landowner has erected a bunch of signs that say something to the effect of "The UN is coming for our property!!"

how come they're not bothered when there's a real threat of global interests seeking their property?

Enthusiast

(50,983 posts)
59. Voting for Bernie appears to be the only possible solution.
Mon May 4, 2015, 06:15 AM
May 2015

And then the fight will have only just begun.

moondust

(19,972 posts)
10. Jefferson understood the problem,
Sun May 3, 2015, 04:25 PM
May 2015

though he may not have known what to call it--at least 199 years ago. (see sig line)

I only wish they would have done something to stop it back then.

nashville_brook

(20,958 posts)
12. indeed. i feel like Eisenhower gave the last great warning, when it was too late...
Sun May 3, 2015, 04:35 PM
May 2015

when he pointed to the fact that we'd let the military-industrial complex accrue too much power. after that all bets were off.

moondust

(19,972 posts)
17. Lately I've wondered
Sun May 3, 2015, 05:01 PM
May 2015

if some Americans didn't learn the wrong lessons from Vietnam, specifically how profitable long wars can be. It would help explain the long, unwinnable wars in the Middle East started by corporate chickenhawks with little or nothing to lose personally.

nashville_brook

(20,958 posts)
74. halliburton, brown bros, KBR...they all learned how profitable unending war can be
Mon May 4, 2015, 10:38 AM
May 2015

the wrong people learned the wrong lesson.

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
23. One of my favorite Jefferson quotations!
Sun May 3, 2015, 05:16 PM
May 2015

Lincoln had a duzy, too:

"Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration." 12/3/1861 at Cooper Union, NYC

Jackpine Radical

(45,274 posts)
26. 1963.
Sun May 3, 2015, 05:25 PM
May 2015

Unless you maybe wanna argue for 1948 and the Dulles boys with their unholy alliance between the CIA & Wall St.

zeemike

(18,998 posts)
34. Well if you had to put a date on it I would say 1963.
Sun May 3, 2015, 05:50 PM
May 2015

But what us little people don't understand is that the PTB plan long term.
They gave up the short term takeover when the Business Plot was uncovered in the 30s and foiled by General Smedley Butler.

But 1963 showed them they could get away with anything as long as they controlled the media, and they have done so effectively ever since.

nashville_brook

(20,958 posts)
42. i totally agree. there's been an accrual of power that's been exercised in shocking ways.
Sun May 3, 2015, 06:15 PM
May 2015

it's the same people, too. The Business Plot was Wall Street financiers with the backing of military. they just made the "military" easier and less transparent to outsource with the CIA. it's the same threat, though -- and the same interests lining up in the hierarchy.

nashville_brook

(20,958 posts)
28. or kleptocracy. i try to avoid those words b/c as academic language they tend to hide
Sun May 3, 2015, 05:32 PM
May 2015

the action required to fix things.

I've been searching for years for a non-academic word that means "stealing money from poor people" so that the action is implied. rich people need to stop stealing from the poor.

whenever i use plutocracy or kleptocracy, i know i'm leaving people with the feeling that there's nothing to be done. that, it's just the nature of the dystopian future we've created. oh well -- what's on TV tonight.

i think it says something about the culture of progressivism in this country that (from time to time) we find our language to be inadequate to describe things. shows how much "blue sky" there is to work with. there's so much to do we even have to explore our language options.

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
21. Giovanni Gentile and Benito Mussolini called it fascism
Sun May 3, 2015, 05:14 PM
May 2015

and they should know; they invented it.

"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini

nashville_brook

(20,958 posts)
30. you know what's funny about that Mussolini quote...
Sun May 3, 2015, 05:43 PM
May 2015

as i was writing this i went down a giant rabbit hole about the history of the usage of the word fascism, and to my astonishment there's confusion about if Mussolini actually ever said that. took more over a week to write this stupid essay b/c i wanted to be very careful about how i addressed that language.

which got me to thinking...we don't have a clear citation for Mussolini saying this, BUT we have FDR using this definition in a letter to congress -- as clear cut as it gets. and, it's kinda a better source. i'd always attributed the definition to BM. my sense now is that it was probably something he said on "the stump" but never in official writings, b/c it seems to be what FDR was alluding to.


 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
35. It's attributed to Mussolini but it was actually written by Gentile
Sun May 3, 2015, 05:51 PM
May 2015

the in-house philosopher of Italian Fascism.

nashville_brook

(20,958 posts)
37. OH! in the manifesto! that makes total sense!
Sun May 3, 2015, 05:55 PM
May 2015

Thank you -- this was driving me crazy. Writers who I completely trust have posts up where they're stumped.

DirkGently

(12,151 posts)
52. Well that bears repeating a few million times.
Sun May 3, 2015, 09:47 PM
May 2015

Here's one:

"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
 

mckara

(1,708 posts)
29. Finally After Many Decades, Since Bretton Woods in 1947...
Sun May 3, 2015, 05:42 PM
May 2015

People are starting to catch on!

Americans are not the brightest bulbs in the knife drawer!

 

Demeter

(85,373 posts)
31. The Cost of Doing Business
Sun May 3, 2015, 05:44 PM
May 2015

including pollution, hoarding, discrimination, fraud, embezzlement, influence buying.....

I could go on, but I'd like to get something useful done today.

nashville_brook

(20,958 posts)
33. i HEAR ya! you know who put me on to this is Alan Grayson.
Sun May 3, 2015, 05:46 PM
May 2015

He talks a lot about non-tariff barriers to trade -- well, not in this video, so much. Check out the HuffPo link.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rep-alan-grayson/time-to-end-the-free-trad_b_3246607.html

His new video totally rocks the top-line issues with TPP, which are enough to fill 9 minutes!

TBF

(32,047 posts)
41. Business as usual -
Sun May 3, 2015, 06:13 PM
May 2015

at least for capitalists. The rest of us would use the term "corporatocracy" and/or "fascism".

nashville_brook

(20,958 posts)
43. Evil is truly banal. it IS business as usual for many people...i bet most of which don't have a clue
Sun May 3, 2015, 06:17 PM
May 2015

that the work they do helps shift the pieces on the chess board. we're all just doing our jobs.

Response to nashville_brook (Original post)

GoneFishin

(5,217 posts)
46. Holy shit. "TPP gives corporate lawyers the ability to preempt “non-tariff barriers” to trade"
Sun May 3, 2015, 06:31 PM
May 2015

"TPP gives corporate lawyers the ability to preempt “non-tariff barriers” to trade"

The term "non-tariff barrier" is important because it reminds us that TPP has very little to do with trade and everything to do with stopping the government (in this context we the people) from creating rules to keep the corporations from cheating and endangering workers or destroying the planet (faster than it is). For other countries, constraints on their tariffs would be a non-starter because some of them actually use tariffs effectively to protect their industries (otherwise known as bariffs and terriers, but I diverge).

So they have tipped their hand. The thing that might have actually increased U.S. exports to other countries, lower tariffs, was explicitly circumvented by this term. At the same time, it does nothing to slow imports of competing goods because the tariff system for imports into the U.S. has not been used to protect our industries as is demonstrated by the flight from the U.S. of about 5,000 factories a year.

nashville_brook

(20,958 posts)
48. and the weirdest thing is that Alan Grayson has been sounding this alarm since at least 2013
Sun May 3, 2015, 08:17 PM
May 2015

and i live in his district, AND I'm a nerd about the TPP, but it didn't register with me about "non-tariff barriers to trade" until I sat down to write about TPP fast track. The more i dug, the more I found that this this is where they tip their hand.

of the 29 chapters we know about, only 5 deal with tradition trade issues -- the sort of stuff that would apply to "if we don't write the deal China will write it for us." that leave 24 chapters dealing with non-tariff barriers.

in the whole piece i gave an example of "preemption" that i'm familiar with from here in Central Florida. But there's been preemption measures enacted in many states with those 2010 Koch-funded Tea Party Republican governors.

here's something Alan Grayson wrote in 2013 on non-tariff barriers --> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rep-alan-grayson/time-to-end-the-free-trad_b_3246607.html

GoneFishin

(5,217 posts)
54. From your link : "Canada has ... been sued for ... taxing windfall profits by oil companies."
Sun May 3, 2015, 10:59 PM
May 2015

So there is pretty much no law or regulation that will be out of bounds. It's a blank check for big corporations.

"Your laws against slavery and human trafficking are increasing our labor costs and making us less profitable. We are going to challenge those laws under the TPP ISDR provision."

DirkGently

(12,151 posts)
47. +++ Fascism creeps in on little loafered Banker feet
Sun May 3, 2015, 07:53 PM
May 2015

We shy away from brash ideologically loaded terms like "fascism," because collectively we agree so seldom on when a political system has gone too far that we end up comparing everything to Nazis, and nothing really compares that well to the Nazis. They really went the extra mile in terms of horrifying the world. We may not see their specific brand of terribleness again.

But private money trying to undermine democracy? That's not any kind of special evil unicorn. That's common as dirt. It happens every day. We would be buried by private money tomorrow if we stopped pushing actively against it for a second. It's not unique. It's not even particularly evil, really, although its effects if unchecked certainly are. It's just a thing that money and power do to any kind of civilization.

Like Pinky and the Brain, the privately wealthy and privately powerful wake up every morning, drink some fine, strong Columbian coffee, and decide HOW TO TAKE OVER THE WORLD.

One thing we do have in common with Germans and Italians and everyone else who has seen their country go through horrifically destructive political paradigm shifts, is that we *assume things will never get that bad.*

We really do give ourselves the benefit of the doubt. We don't see jackboots in the street or hear bombs exploding above, and we assume things will remain within at least some modicum of sanity.

But that's not true at all. Radical things can happen in an instant, and THE MOST COMMON way is not through crazed painters shooting guns in beerhalls. It's with the stroke of a businessman's pen.


Of COURSE business interests want to force through a sweeping realignment of power, elevating "investors" to the level of nation states and erecting an extra-judicial system run by corporate lawyers to punish countries that interfere with "expected future profits."

It's what they've always wanted. And it's not like we don't see them trying to get there, every single day. It's what lobbyists are for, and lobbyists have all the business they can handle.

We need not to shy away from strong talk. We need to understand that secret international trade agreements are EXACTLY how things can go horribly wrong. Not a shot fired, not a jackboot in sight. But they can still take it all, and they will, and we need to call these massive power grabs out for what they are, and not be bored to sleep by the details, or cowed into not using harsh terminology.

“give them their way and they will take the course of every aristocracy of the past – power for themselves, enslavement for the public.”


FDR was no conspiracy theorist. He was reporting what he saw, and he'd report the same today if he was here to see this.

Great post.

nashville_brook

(20,958 posts)
50. here's a piece by Ezra Klein in VOX that I believe makes the case for getting real about fascism
Sun May 3, 2015, 08:25 PM
May 2015
http://www.vox.com/2015/4/24/8489065/politics-negative-partisanship-fear

it says, essentially, that both parties move their voters based on fear that the other is a "threat to the nation's well-being."

but here's the catch! Democrats are lag R's by 9-points in our ability to raise the threat level. everyone here on this board is sick to death of R's screaming "nazi" at every move obama makes. But they do it for a reason -- b/c it works to move their voters. they don't care if it's TRUE or not.

on our side it actually is TRUE that we're dealing with fascistic elements attempting to amass control...and yet we want to pussyfoot around with academic words like "plutocracy." you know what the average joe thinks Plutocracy is rule by this guy:



If they only realized how close they are b/c it's actually rule by Disney.

sadoldgirl

(3,431 posts)
53. Call it the Robin Hood reversal
Sun May 3, 2015, 10:04 PM
May 2015

The problem goes farther than corporate and financial control, imho.
They will insist on succeeding with their long term plan, and while
they do they already plan on indirect or even direct physical
control. They realize full well, that there may come a point of
a popular uprising (Bernie's candidacy is an indication), and they
will be ready for this as well.

nashville_brook

(20,958 posts)
68. i believe that we already have that with private prisons
Mon May 4, 2015, 10:05 AM
May 2015

in breaking down the situation in Baltimore, for instance, you can't help but come face-to-face with what real physical control looks like. people are arrested before they're old enough to get a job, then they can't get a job b/c of the record, which leads to whole swaths of town where there's nothing but poverty and the streets b/c everything else has been handed over to the prisons.

GoneFishin

(5,217 posts)
55. That's another reason the right calls Obama a nazi and fascist. Because it is actually true that
Sun May 3, 2015, 11:09 PM
May 2015

they exhibit strong fascist behaviors. But their base just perceives it as a pissing match because the rightwing talking heads have been calling Obama a fascist forever.

It is a Rovian tactic to go after your opponents strengths. And since our strongest argument against the right wingers is that they are fascist and destroying the country, it makes sense that they would accuse the Democrats of those same things first in order to neutralize the allegations.

nashville_brook

(20,958 posts)
64. but, it's an argument we don't use...
Mon May 4, 2015, 07:52 AM
May 2015

i think some who carry the Dem banner sit on their hands b/c their campaign coffers depend on Wall Street money. the ones who actually step up and say something get attacked by both sides. there's little incentive to fight the good fight other than to actually win one for real people. and we keep being shown that we're not the priority.

GoneFishin

(5,217 posts)
69. You are correct. There are many who call themselves Dems who are sympathetic to rightwing economic
Mon May 4, 2015, 10:09 AM
May 2015

theories. And very few who will call out unfair, unethical, or illegal business practices.

nashville_brook

(20,958 posts)
72. it's much more efficient to achieve their ends thru secret trade agreement
Mon May 4, 2015, 10:34 AM
May 2015

than thru any kind of physical confrontation.

 

bobjacksonk2832

(50 posts)
56. Plutocracy would be the right term.
Mon May 4, 2015, 03:27 AM
May 2015

Sadly I see no light at the end of the tunnel for this country. Any hope of democracy returning here is pretty much gone. Welcome to the Corporate States of America.

pampango

(24,692 posts)
62. "The 1920's and early 30's." FDR and Truman knew it. The ITO was to keep it from returning.
Mon May 4, 2015, 06:48 AM
May 2015

republicans of that era cut taxes for the rich, cut regulations, cut the safety net, cut immigration, weakened unions, raised tariffs, etc.

FDR (who proposed the ITO) and Truman (who negotiated and signed it) wanted a multilateral organization that would promote and govern trade through consultation and arbitration, not unilateral national actions which they saw as the hallmark of the republican 1920's. And the ITO would have linked trade with labor rights, full employment, business regulation, investment protection and regulation, monopoly prevention, etc.

It is no wonder that a republican congress refused to ratify the ITO saying it gave up too much of our national sovereignty to an international organization. republicans got what they wanted. Now trade is not linked to full employment, labor rights, business regulation, etc.

nashville_brook

(20,958 posts)
75. it's completely unsustainable, what we have now.
Mon May 4, 2015, 10:40 AM
May 2015

when these privileges aren't tied to full employment, labor rights, etc...it means that it's these things that are being traded away.

pampango

(24,692 posts)
80. What we do need is a trade agreement(s) or organization, like the ITO, that would be focused on
Mon May 4, 2015, 12:49 PM
May 2015

just those things.

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
84. Plutocracy. It is what those three asshole charlitans wanted in your picture and they got it.
Mon May 4, 2015, 03:58 PM
May 2015

And now they make millions off of their snake oil and people buy it up like it was life saving mana. Pathetic.

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