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Fascinating interactive world map of Anti-Semitism. (Original Post) Bonobo May 2015 OP
Only 13.7 million of us hated by over 1 billion. Agnosticsherbet May 2015 #1
Crazy, right? Behind the Aegis May 2015 #2
Interestingly, it is rabid among Christians in Korea. Bonobo May 2015 #3
Definitely a religious thing. Not much other explanation available. True Blue Door May 2015 #5
I don't understand it especially from Christians JonLP24 May 2015 #7
Pontius Pilate was not Jewish. Behind the Aegis May 2015 #9
I didn't mean to imply that he was JonLP24 May 2015 #11
OK. Behind the Aegis May 2015 #12
I came across the Pagan but got lost on the Mosaic law part JonLP24 May 2015 #17
Christians followed a doctrine of deicide for most of their history, that Jews killed Christ. Agnosticsherbet May 2015 #21
I know they weren't part of Judaism obviously JonLP24 May 2015 #22
Especially given the rate is 53% in a country with less than 100 Jews! Behind the Aegis May 2015 #8
I wonder why that would be? yuiyoshida May 2015 #13
You are right, they have almost zero exposure. Bonobo May 2015 #14
I was going to say that yuiyoshida May 2015 #15
Sorry to hear that but unsurprised. Bonobo May 2015 #18
For most of the history of Chritianity, the Christian doctrine of deicide kept Jews a hated minority Agnosticsherbet May 2015 #20
I really don't understand it JonLP24 May 2015 #4
You need to look at the questions again. Behind the Aegis May 2015 #6
Which is why I mentioned the Evangelical Christians being the largest Pro-Israel lobby JonLP24 May 2015 #10
The problems with your post. Behind the Aegis May 2015 #16
I just came across #6 & #7 JonLP24 May 2015 #19

Behind the Aegis

(53,933 posts)
2. Crazy, right?
Mon May 4, 2015, 03:13 AM
May 2015

It is interesting how common it is, especially in countries that have few or no Jews. Only two countries have more than a half a million Jews, the US and Israel. More than 30 countries have 100 or less (or no) Jews.

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
7. I don't understand it especially from Christians
Mon May 4, 2015, 03:59 AM
May 2015

I'm not familiar with all the little nuances, except maybe the fundamentalist evangelical Pentacostal Potter's House/The Door would often preach Catholics are going to hell. Not sure why, just that they were certain Catholics were doing it wrong (and those not going to church Sunday, Wednesday) watching TV, smoking, backsliding, you're never good enough because god doesn't like "lukewarm" Christians.

Really its a major Jewish sect split with the next major one was when Eastern Orthodox Christianity split from Roman Catholicism for reasons of idolatry, I've seen like every inch of those churches telling the whole bible in painted images. There were secular sources from around the time referencing the crucifixion and the "King of the Jews" title (whether he called himself that or who knows what was said but that was the general consensus) upset the powerful. If it was over who killed him it was certainly the Romans Pontius Pilate. I don't know if he was Jewish but good chance he was but so was Jesus in both the ethnic & the religious since.

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
11. I didn't mean to imply that he was
Mon May 4, 2015, 04:29 AM
May 2015

I really have no idea what he was if he was religious, I'm not sure if he was the same guy or someone else during the same time -- OK the person I'm thinking of was Nero. I'm just saying I don't understand it for a Christian to be anti-Semitic since historically their hero was Jewish. I'm unintentionally causing misunderstandings -- it seems I have nothing against it or if I did I'd feel like I have to be anti-everything else Abrahamic.

Behind the Aegis

(53,933 posts)
12. OK.
Mon May 4, 2015, 04:34 AM
May 2015

Both, Nero and Pontius, were pagans. They tolerated Jews. The Christians "absolved" the Romans of the execution of Jesus by claiming the council of Jews were the ones who "decided" to have Jesus put to death, mainly because of Paul's writings. They don't think of Jesus as a Jew, but rather as the first Christian; therefore, the Jews killed a Christian, not a Jew.

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
17. I came across the Pagan but got lost on the Mosaic law part
Mon May 4, 2015, 05:11 AM
May 2015

My original understanding were secular sources within the first 100 years of the 60 AD time period where Nero went wild. Looking up specifically who I was surprised to come across basically most of the known history (I was expecting to see Nero & all the other stuff but I don't know why there are Christians are Anti-Semites to suggest it wasn't the Jews but came across bible passages that seem to be contradicted itself but while many Christian sects preach that Jesus died for our sins, those bible passages mentions the King of the Jews title.

Based on the time period there were Christians during Jesus, I don't really know who is responsible for a lot of the super natural claims such as the divine connection, a lot of what I've seen during Christianity is a lot of the major schisms took place during oppression. There was class warfare going on -- I have to research more of who was what when.

To me, I really have no idea what is out there but I figure with the other 2 major Abrahamic sects + the Mormons that believe in the same god & I'm not sure if my timelines are correct -- Quran came after the bible as obvious both Jewish & Christian scriptures influenced it but not sure how long that sect was around possibly before the holy book but isn't Judaism the first one. Probably stupid questions as I should research more but to me it seems like somehow they learned of the existence from one sect & beliefs & practices (they really are closer than far apart on general things) the sects are treated as independent of each other but I tend to think the schisms there happened under oppression. Bible certainly has scripture on that but the Christianity major sect splits which I'm somewhat familiar to the Reformation generally were under other Christians they were oppressed under so they came up with a new sect that varied on beliefs & practices. It becomes confusing for me.

You made better sense of the "Jews killed Jesus" logic.

Agnosticsherbet

(11,619 posts)
21. Christians followed a doctrine of deicide for most of their history, that Jews killed Christ.
Mon May 4, 2015, 10:10 AM
May 2015

The establishment of Israel in 1948 was seen as proof that the return of Jesus was imminent. Here in the US, evangelical communities supported Israel for that reason.

Also, after 60 CE Christianity and Judaism were separate religions. Jews could not be citizens of a country, but lived there as resident aliens until they were kicked out and forced to leave.

The East west Schism in 1054 was a break in the, at the time, European Christian community. They had not been part of Judaism for about a thousand years at the time.

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
22. I know they weren't part of Judaism obviously
Mon May 4, 2015, 10:20 AM
May 2015

I mentioned in that it was under a period of oppression "class warfare" with the oppressors using the religious stuff over them so they started bringing up the idolatry texts and Eastern Orthodox Christianity was born. The first part I know too well with the evangelical Christians often are strongly pro Israel which most if not all of it seems to be based on Christian doomsday theories. '

60 seemed to be when the split occurred, the 60s were Nero went on his anti-Christian rampages. Thanks for the info.

yuiyoshida

(41,829 posts)
13. I wonder why that would be?
Mon May 4, 2015, 04:36 AM
May 2015

How much exposure to the Jewish culture have they actually had? That seems so odd to me, as to why.

Bonobo

(29,257 posts)
14. You are right, they have almost zero exposure.
Mon May 4, 2015, 04:40 AM
May 2015

Only what they would learn from the Christian schools all over the place.

It has long been an essential part of Christian teachings that Jews are greedy people who sold out Jesus for a few shekels (coins).

It is just one piece of the puzzle of long-standing Anti-Semitism.

Not entirely dissimilar, interesting, from the similar school-based teaching of hatred against the Japanese. Enemies tend to hold the group together whether that be Korean nationalism or Christianity.

yuiyoshida

(41,829 posts)
15. I was going to say that
Mon May 4, 2015, 04:49 AM
May 2015

South Koreans probably, overall hate Japanese more than Hating Jews. I have to say, in my own experience on an old Chat program called Meebo, I was constantly hated on by Mainland Chinese, who once, they heard I was Japanese, were relentless in their hate, even though I told them I was an American. While they admired Americans, if I had Japanese blood, I was horribly treated on line, and so refused to visit that chat room again.

Bonobo

(29,257 posts)
18. Sorry to hear that but unsurprised.
Mon May 4, 2015, 05:20 AM
May 2015

The Chinese and Korean governments really callously continue to maintain anti-Japanese hatred and are sure that they never let it die down.

It really doesn't matter how often the Japanese apologize or pay reparations. It is simply too useful to continue to maintain an actively hated nearby enemy.

I will add though, that on the individual level, when people meet face to face, I think there is much, much less hatred than one might expect from what is seen and felt on the internet.

Agnosticsherbet

(11,619 posts)
20. For most of the history of Chritianity, the Christian doctrine of deicide kept Jews a hated minority
Mon May 4, 2015, 09:54 AM
May 2015

Even the support of Israel among evangelical's now is because Jews hold an important role in the second coming.

So, no, I am not surprised.

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
4. I really don't understand it
Mon May 4, 2015, 03:38 AM
May 2015

I'm not very familiar with the faith so don't know if the hate is for the ethnic reasons or the faith reasons, faith wise can't make much sense or why.

Of the questions asked though I have questions. I, of course wouldn't say they have too much power in business as there are many Jews that are dirt poor. The others seem to be question about Israel or I'd say yes in the case of Israel such as too much control in global affairs but I feel the same way when it comes to Saudi Arabia & I'm anti-Wahabbism but not anti-Sunni. I a lot of those I say yes if you replace Jews with Israel but when it comes to control over US government the largest pro Israel lobby are evangelical Christians. I also think the US has way too much control over global affairs more than anyone or the control they certainly do have could be better spent on humanitarian reasons not double standards.

Behind the Aegis

(53,933 posts)
6. You need to look at the questions again.
Mon May 4, 2015, 03:57 AM
May 2015

The "Jews have too much power in the business world" is an age-old anti-Semitic canard. That one stretches back to the Middle Ages. There were many professions not open to Jews, up until the mid-20th century, so Jews worked in allowed professions or made their way in areas on their own (banks, studios, travelling businesses).

"The others seem to be question about Israel"

Say what now? Only one question even mentions Israel, and that is the first one: Jews are more loyal to Israel than to [this country/to the countries they live in] As for "replacing Jews with Israel", it is what many do in order to justify their anti-Semitism. How does Israel or even Saudi Arabia have "too much" control in global affairs? Global affairs are vast, which many seem to forget, and only concentrate on certain issues and make them the sum total of "global affairs." The same goes for "Israeli control over the US government." That, of course, wasn't even a question. How does Israel control domestic affairs here? Economic affairs? Do you feel they "control" other foreign affairs which don't include the ME? Also, the evangelical Christians are another group all together.

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
10. Which is why I mentioned the Evangelical Christians being the largest Pro-Israel lobby
Mon May 4, 2015, 04:24 AM
May 2015

Something to do with Christian doomsday theories, I don't know but they out number AIPAC (don't know if I spelled the lobbying group correctly). In theory I could say Israel has too much control over US policy but the evangelical Christians affect the issue domestic wise, they outnumber & out lobby the other Pro-Israel lobbies.

#6 & #7 came right after each other, 7 I'd say no if you replaced it with Israel mainly because of the strong domestic support here -- you have Hannity take a one sided view of the Israel -- Palestinian divide being strong pro Israel. Not that they don't do it for reasons of anti-Semitism. As far as #7 goes Israel & especially Saudi Arabia is a big part of the double standards of US foreign policy but it evolved over time I don't as part of some huge conspiracy. How does the US make human rights an issue justifying a regime change all over besides Saudi Arabia & Israel. Truman was like the only one in his administration that wanted to recognize Israel when his advisers were worried about the House of Saud being angry & all that oil they could provide cheap in the event of another World War. He said his "Concerns were justice, not oil". I think there were religious reasons for him pushing the move as well. An exodus as in bringing the persecuted people into the US wasn't politically feasible as there was a lot of opposition against it. (I'll have to double check that later point -- I think Truman backed the UN partition until that broke down recognized Israel which was hit by multiple countries the same day.

#6 They have a lot of control over global affairs and I don't mean Jews but Israel but I think US has way too much & Saudi Arabia has significant amount of control with the oil who open it up to them

When it comes to the other questions they don't make sense if you replace Jews with Israel so sorry about the confusion & causing the misunderstanding. I know the business one -- in Arizona: A Cavalcade of History by Marshall Trimble he documented and can't quite remember how he worded it but there were many Jewish owned businesses in the early Territorial days, its been years since I read it but I wouldn't say they have too much control over business. So do a lot of the top guys no matter what their faith or ethnicities are. There may be more businesses that are more successful than Halliburton but how do you top Dick Cheney as someone with too much control? The global trade -- I think US-Britain has more control over everybody with the other guys Russia-China-India & whatever alliances they can find, normally countries that are an enemy of the US because they nationalized oil production such as the case with Iran & Venezuela.

Behind the Aegis

(53,933 posts)
16. The problems with your post.
Mon May 4, 2015, 04:54 AM
May 2015

"In theory I could say Israel has too much control over US policy but the evangelical Christians affect the issue domestic wise, they outnumber & out lobby the other Pro-Israel lobbies."

You are conflating two different groups. You claim theoretically Israel could have too much control over US policy, but change gears and include "evangelical Christians". Whereas that group can be "pro-Israel", an oft misused term, I know their concerns with domestic policies don't have anything to do with Israel and Israel, the country, has no control of US domestic policy, much less having "too much" control. US policy is more than foreign policy, which is more than just Middle Eastern Affairs.

"#6 They have a lot of control over global affairs and I don't mean Jews but Israel but I think US has way too much & Saudi Arabia has significant amount of control with the oil who open it up to them "

Ok, how does Israel have "a lot of control over global affairs?" And, let's suppose you could actually prove such an assertion, what does that have to do with the original question, which was about Jews, not Israel. See, it is the "bait and switch" again. The question in the survey was not about Israel, but Jews.

Let me ask, how often do you ever hear of any other group of people having "too much control" over global affairs, the US government, business? Maybe certain groups of Christians, in the US. How often during discussions of immigration are the nationalities (or their parents' nationalities) are called into question? Other than the right-wing, do you hear about the two Muslim Congressmen being "more loyal" to various Muslim countries? When posters here use foreign flags as their avatars or express anything positive about their heritage, are their loyalties to the US questioned? St. Patrick's Day? Are the Irish-American posters here more loyal to Ireland? What about the Mexican-Americans when the discuss immigration; do posters question their loyalty to the US?

Think about some of those questions and you will start to see a double standard when it comes to Jews.

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
19. I just came across #6 & #7
Mon May 4, 2015, 06:12 AM
May 2015

and thought Israel. I understand the question asks about Jews and I'd say no to every question as it is phrased if

Israel wouldn't have control over domestic policies just our foreign policies. The evangelical Christians the ones that an Israel lobby, you can't see it with the Republicans backing them up or taking the side of the current leader over the issue of Iran. I was saying there are domestic political pressures to basically use tough rhetoric on everybody else (except Saudi Arabia who the US makes an effort to please) but look the other way when it comes to Israel. I always hate the way the UN Security Council is set-up, counter-productive to the UN but I think the US uses their veto power (how often or how large a share of their vetoes) is used to protect Israel from UN resolutions. Opposing UN ceasefires all of that, having their back. All the recent Presidents suggest there be more Palestinian Resolutions & certainly there is a limited number in comparison so how much of that is Anti-Semites making an issue of Israel & without question the US is more Pro-Israel than all the other nations so while many may be in-fact applying a double standard themselves but not sure how genuine the US concern is for balance particularly in terms of tough rhetoric & sanctions but Saudi Arabia is balancing act to make sure they are pleased but it helps with Iran as their enemy who I think is a bigger enemy to Iran than Israel.

Where Israel sits is local but Southwest Asia is the intersection of global policy why exactly I don't know but as soon as a President starts turning their backs or applying consistency which they demand from the UN the evangelical networks will be in full force attacking him which is a guess mostly from the political pressure but from a foreign policy, it is obvious US wants control or at-least have US & Britain multinationals in while keeping Russia out. Personally I think to keep to our selves.

I have a tendency to go off on a sidetrack but so often opposition to Israel policy is labeled anti-Semites while depending on who its coming from -- criticism of Israel is rooted in anti-Semites. The questions, not all of them seemed to be specifically related to issues of Israel with one country but other than Israel itself they are all an obvious no.

I certainly accept Jewish people have a double standard that is very unique like a special brand of xenophobia, someone from somewhere is prejudiced because of where they are from while Jewish face hate no matter where they are born & raised. I have no idea where it comes from -- I really don't think it would be fair to rate which oppression is worse than the other & the hate is certainly odd for something that doesn't seem inherently worse than the others. Keith Ellison takes a lot of shit, Muslims are trusted the least next to Atheists according to polls from Americans. Ironically Muslims by higher percentages say attacks on civilians are never justified followed by the Atheists/agnostics. Overall in America it seems Muslim hate is the strongest form of hate right now. While there are threads saying Bernie Sanders will lose in a landslide because he is Jewish which I don't know if it were to be like from people who honestly believe Obama is a Muslim (with the implication that he's an evildoer)

I certainly agree 100% the double standards that affect the Jewish people. All I care about is equality, fairness, & opportunity to participate in the governments whoever lives in rather than the second class citizens or persecutions and over a history & longevity the oppression of Jewish people is on a very large scale. You know the history. Anything, I've mentioned was inadvertent and not part of some anti-Semites on my part (anti-Semites is often tied with criticism of Israel which is the reminder of why I mentioned it. I'm against hate & discrimination of any kind, I certainly dislike the right wing fundamentalist sects of any religion but like I've mentioned the beliefs & practices of Judaism I'm least familiar with.

On edit -- on your double standard point. Anne Frank explained in better ways what I was trying to get at to show my agreement

Do you know who disagrees with the historians? Anne Frank. Writes Anne Frank on April 11, 1944 in her diary: "Who knows -- it might even be our religion from which the world and all peoples learn good, and for that reason and that reason alone do we now suffer. We can never become just Netherlanders, or just English, or representatives of any other country for that matter. We will always remain Jews."

Anne Frank made a point of stressing that Jews have something of special value to give to the world, and that is precisely what the world has resented, and that is why people have persecuted Jews. Anne Frank identifies anti-Semitism as a hatred of Jewishness, a loathing altogether different from the bigotry or racism that other peoples experience.

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