Am I supposed to feel "safer" because a CIA informant's "terrorist plot was foiled" ?

[99th_Monkey]

This is even more absurd than the case in Portland OR, last New Years Eve when
a young man was basically entrapped into believing he was being assisted by real
terrorists to detonate a bomb that never really existed except as a random Radio
Shack hodgepodge of wires and batteries.

Here the supposed "terrorist perpetrator" was already ON THE CIA PAYROLL as an
informant, from the very get-go.

Please. How stupid to these people think the public is? These "you must be very
afraid of terrorists" bogus "plots" appear to me to be mostly smoke and mirrors,
and very transparent ones at that.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/08/al-qaeda-bomb-plot-bomber-cia-informant_n_1501340.html

[HiPointDem]

1. The terrorists all belong to the US intelligence services.

[99th_Monkey]

3. Thank you for saying the obvious, that very few will admit. ~nt

[HiPointDem]

5. been that way forever. can't think of any terrorist of the top of my head that *didn't* have

some kind of connection to intelligence.

they're all on the take, double/triple/quadruple agents/funded by a third party -- always some kind of angle.

i think intelligence is a *way* bigger part of the picture than we've been led to believe.

i sometimes imagine it's on the order of what they used to say about east germany.

[Old and In the Way]

2. It's absurd. CIA - we're fighting terrorism, even if we have to make it up." nt

[99th_Monkey]

14. That is a nice summation of the situation actually. ~nt

[gratuitous]

4. Of course you're supposed to feel safer

That's what all the teevee people are saying. And we'll all feel safer until the moment when we're supposed to feel more afraid. I detested these security shenanigans under Chimpy; I find that my attitude hasn't improved in the last three years.

Knock this shit off.

[Art_from_Ark]

8. Emmanuel Goldstein is dead

but The Brotherhood lives on.

[provis99]

6. you know the best way for us to stop terrorist plots?

stop going around the world bullying and pissing other countries off.

[99th_Monkey]

13. +DING DING DING!! We have a winner!!! ~nt

[Arctic Dave]

7. It's not about you feeling safer,

it's about them trying not to look like a bunch of bumbling fuktards that murder people with RC toys.

Bullshit PR at its sickest.

[MrScorpio]

9. There's one point that you're not getting.

It's not just that you and I are aware that the US has infiltrated those terrorist networks, it's also that the terrorists themselves have no idea about which of their cohorts are working for the CIA and who's not.

If you want to destroy a group like that, you simply get them to destroy their own cohesion from within. That's why agent provocateurs are so effective at undermining organizations.

All the Al Qaeda members who were in good standing before are now rendered suspect if they were known associates of the guy who was working for us.

If you think you're mad for finding out what the CIA has done, just imagine the upheaval that's going in Al Qaeda right now. They don't know when they could have a bomb drop on their heads, or which one of their plans are compromised by the CIA, or who if anyone that they've confided in is on our payroll.

They are shitting bricks right now.

[99th_Monkey]

10. Your "point" has not been lost on me at all.

Forget Al Qaeda, I need look no further than Occupy Wall St. or earlier
COINTELPRO to see how US Intel deals with "suspected terrorist organizations"
(as defined by the super-rich) with infiltration and strategic moves by agent
provocateurs.

I've gotten this same "point" impressed upon me up-close and personal, with
police batons and tear gas too, btw.

Or am I still "not getting" something?

[MrScorpio]

11. What does OWS have to do with fighting Al Qaeda?

You're acting as if the government is treating both being the same.

I'm sorry, but the CIA isn't shooting cruise missiles at protesters in US streets.

[99th_Monkey]

12. I said nothing of the sort.

You addressed me as though you imagine I am somehow naive
about infiltration and agent provocateurs by US Intel, psy ops,
etc.

I responded from my personal experience and more
direct knowledge of same, but in other contexts,
as in OWS, and COINTELPRO, which has nothing to
do with AQ either, since it was decades ago.

What's the problem again?

ON EDIT: I really don't think we any substantial disagreement,
but if I'm wrong, let me know.

[MrScorpio]

16. My initial point is that I thought that your OP was very one sided

As if that entire operation in Yemen was only for domestic consumption alone.

If you've now conceded the point that it's not, well that's all well and good.

However, I wanted to point out that the publicity of the OP, revealing that there was a CIA mole in Al Qaeda, could prove to be a very positive turn of events in our efforts to break a terrorist organization that's out to do us harm.

I have absolutely no sympathy for these people and I'm quite happy to see COINTELPRO tactics used on them. Personally, I think it's quite a breath of fresh air to have the CIA use those tactics on dangerous terrorists, rather than the labor organizations and human rights movements that they've infiltrated in the past.

At least they're doing the right thing for once.

One last thing, it was the FBI who was responsible for that Oregon agent provocateur OP and in other places. I've opposed that kind to shit by them since I've first read the book, The COINTELPRO PAPERS, over 20 years ago. The FBI does that shit strictly FOR publicity and to bolster their image to the public. Of course it was wrong for them to do that. I don't disagree with you on that point.

BUT, it's just I can tell the difference between the FBI CREATING "terrorists", or going after the Black Panther Party and the American Indian Movement and the CIA who are going after real Al Qaeda killers with a process that will disrupt their internal cohesiveness and diminish their ability to attack us again.

One does not equal the other.

[99th_Monkey]

17. I think we agree mostly, except for one thing

I'm a little more skeptical about the CIA v. AQ being such a clear cut case of good guys v. bad guys;
or that we are being told the whole story in this regard.

I respect your opinion however, and am fine with agreeing to disagree. Thanks for playing.

[treestar]

15. that link doesn't say much about it

but presumably the CIA operative identified Al Qaeda operatives who are willing to carry out an attack?

That article was notable for the idea that the EU does not have the same security we have. One would think they'd be concerned that Al Qaeda might attack their people, too. Or their people could be on the US bound flights.

[99th_Monkey]

18. I agree totally

about EU thing, if it's true they have more lax standards.

Actually historically speaking I think there have been more terrorist
attacks on EU soil than USA; which makes it even more noteworthy.

On the other hand, I think there are ways in which USA's TSA
treatment of passengers boarding flights is overly harsh and
humiliating, so "where's the balance?" I guess is the question.

[slackmaster]

19. The knowledge that there are still violent religious fanatics in the world makes me feel less safe.

[whatchamacallit]

21. Right... and if we keep bombing weddings and cannibalizing the constitution

someday there will be no more religious fanatics.

No one in this world has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people. Nor has anyone ever lost public office thereby. - H. L. Mencken

[YellowRubberDuckie]

20. Notice how about once a year...

...they've started doing these? They find some nut cases, give them money and organize a big terrorist act then "foil it." Then they publicize it to make themselves seem useful. It is really getting ridiculous. There are real threats they are putting down but they never mention those, only the crap they make up. I wonder why.

[whatchamacallit]

23. Election Season? n/t

[YellowRubberDuckie]

24. No. At least once a year.

It's not really election season. It's just at random. It's like they're trying to justify their existence by entrapment.

[Odin2005]

22. It's just like the 2-minute hate in "1984".