The actual facts about Hillary and Bernie re Israel

[cali]

Both support Israel. Both support a Palestinian state. For years Hillary supported Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. She no longer does. Regarding the attack on Gaza, both made excuses for Israel, though Bernie did say that the Israelis "overreacted". Hillary has been both supportive of Netanyahu and gone head to head with him. And as SoS, that's quite reasonable. She was the top diplomat, after all. She's sharply criticized Israel's settlement policy. Bernie was the first Senator to announce that he wouldn't attend Netanyahu's speech. Essentially, there's just not that much daylight between the two. To recap:

Both support a two state solution
Both have spoken out on halting settlements
Both pretty much supported Israel's Gaza massacre (sorry, that's what it was) in 2014

The only real difference? Hillary is more committed to the use of military force to solve problems than Bernie is. That said, the odds she'd go to war with Iran, strike me as slim. I don't think she's going to be bullied by Netanyahu.

Here's a statement from Bernie, 2009:

<snip>

A two-state solution must include compromises from both sides to achieve a fair and lasting peace in the region. The Palestinians must fulfill their responsibilities to arrest terrorists, confiscate terrorists’ weapons, dismantle terrorist organizations, halt all anti-Jewish and anti-Israel incitement, and recognize Israel’s right to exist. In return, the Israelis must end their policy of targeted killings, prevent further Israeli settlements on Palestinian land, and prevent the destruction of Palestinian homes, businesses and infrastructure.

<snip>

To that end, I was proud to sign a letter last year calling for $20 million in funding for the Israeli-Palestinian Peace, Reconciliation and Democracy Fund, which helps support “through Palestinian and Israeli organizations, the promotion of democracy, human rights, freedom of the press, and non-violence among Palestinians, and peaceful coexistence and reconciliation between Israelis and Palestinians.” Included is $10 million for the People-to-People Exchange Program, which among other things, trains hundreds of Israeli and Palestinian teachers in peace education.

While I was in the U.S. House of Representatives, I was also very pleased to introduce and pass legislation that established the Arab-Israeli Peace Partners Program in Vermont. This program allocated $1.5 million over a two-year period to enable Arabs and Israelis to come to the United States to work together in our local communities, and develop ways to expand democracy and the peace process.

With the help of the United Nations and the international community, we must intensify our diplomatic efforts to bring peace to this embattled region. Rest assured, I will continue to support the Palestinian right to national sovereignty while at the same time ensuring the security of Israel. In addition, it is essential that we work toward improving human rights in the region and provide economic support if we are to achieve our political goals.

<snip>

https://bullshitphilosophy.wordpress.com/2009/02/07/statement-from-bernie-sanders-on-gaza/

http://www.bustle.com/articles/79871-bernie-sanders-stance-on-israel-has-caused-some-tension-for-him-in-the-past

<snip>

Despite being Secretary of State during one of the most tumultuous times in the American-Israeli relationship of the last two decades, Clinton maintains a cordial relationship with both the Israelis and Palestinians. She first visited Israel in 1981, and subsequent trips have seen the Clinton team blend in well with dignitaries in both Jerusalem and Ramallah. This relationship allows her to tepidly prod and criticize the Israelis in a way that most politicians would not be able to. For example, her exclamation to Benjamin Netanyahu in 1996, “who’s the [expletive] superpower here?” did little to dissuade the Netanyahu government from later signing two agreements at the behest of her husband. As secretary, she criticized the settlement expansion in the West Bank, but opined in her biography, Hard Choices, that the administration’s relentless harping on the issue with Netanyahu may take other important items off the agenda.

At the onset of the 2014 Israel-Gaza conflict, Mrs. Clinton took a firm stance in support of the former. When asked about the proportionality of the Israeli response to the continual firing of rockets from Gaza, she stated “I’m not a military planner, but Hamas puts its missiles… in civilian areas. Part of it is that Gaza’s pretty small and it’s densely populated. They put their command and control of Hamas military leaders in those civilian areas.”

A Hillary Clinton presidency would be much more pragmatic in its relations with both Israel and Palestine than the Obama administration has been. There is little doubt that she would attempt to bring the two sides back to the negotiating table, as every president since Jimmy Carter has done before her. However, with Prime Minister Netanyahu’s apparent abandonment of the two-state solution in March 2015, negotiations may be a non-starter regardless of who occupies the Oval Office.

<snip>

http://www.internationalpolicydigest.org/2015/04/24/the-hillary-clinton-doctrine/

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/for-hillary-and-bibi-a-long-and-sometimes-fraught-relationship/2015/03/01/fe6c7a26-bea9-11e4-b274-e5209a3bc9a9_story.html

[cali]

1. I realize facts most often get subsumed by bullshit, but here they are

[TM99]

2. Thank you for posting this.

So in other words, attempts to paint them as opposing in their views is as usual bullshit. In this case, they are pretty much exactly in agreement at least on the Israel/Palestine conflict and possible resolutions.

[cali]

4. yep, the pathetic and dishonest attempts

that have been ongoing since the eve of his announcement to paint Bernie as somehow being to the right of Hillary on Israel are lies. flat out and nothing but. If anything he's slightly to the left of her.

[octoberlib]

3. Good post! Thank you.

[cali]

6. thanks. facts over bullshit.

[BillZBubb]

5. Hillary: "I’m not a military planner..."

Republicans: "I am not a scientist..."

Weasel words.

[LanternWaste]

13. I suppose everything can be rationalized as a weasel word if calling it such validates a preexisting

I suppose everything can be rationalized as a weasel word if calling it such validates a preexisting bias. The difficult part is illustrating supporting evidence, else it''s little more than a bumper-sticker used by the lowest common denominators of the rational world...

[cali]

7. kick

[magical thyme]

8. excellnent post. thank you. nt

[cali]

9. thanks muchly

[Segami]

10. K&R!

Thanks!

[hifiguy]

11. No American politician, even Bernie,

has a truly good position on Israel. This issue is not a basis for choosing between HRC and Sanders, but plenty of other issues are.

Thanks for the straightforward facts, cali.

[cali]

12. I think keith Ellison

comes closest, but yeah, it's not a basis for choosing between them

[DavidDvorkin]

14. A US president who is a Jew might have a better chance

of cajoling Israel into a real peace agreement than a non-Jew. And then of dragging Congress along to approve of the deal.

That's just speculation on my part, of course, but I've thought that for a while.

[PCIntern]

15. I'm sure the "usual suspects" will feel much better

after your OP.

Fact is, unfortunately for some here, that Israel will maintain her power and presence no matter which one of the very fine Democrats is elected to the Presidency and no matter which miscreant of Republican might be (God forbid) elected to the Office.

Yup..."that's the way it is."

[cali]

16. facts kick