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question everything

(47,472 posts)
Fri May 8, 2015, 01:40 AM May 2015

Safety risk of shrinking airline seats questioned

(From last month, but could not find it on these pages...)

The shrinking space on airplanes is surely uncomfortable, but it might also be dangerous for passengers' health and safety. Planes are filled with more passengers than ever before. Fliers are older and heavier. Flight attendants warn about an increase in air rage, and experts question if having rows of seats packed closer together might make it harder for passengers to evacuate after a crash.

A consumer advisory group set up by the Department of Transportation dove into all those issues Tuesday at a public hearing as part of its role to make non-binding suggestions to government regulators.

(snip)

Unfortunately, the days of the empty middle seat are a thing of the past," said Julie Frederick, a representative for the American Airlines flight attendants union. Following the implementation of checked-bag fees in 2008, Frederick said, more and more passengers are carrying on bags, fighting for overhead bin space. That anger carries over through the flight as passengers bump elbows on armrests and bang their knees against tray tables. She said there are more cases of air rage, many which go unreported.

Questions were also raised if the increased density of seats means passengers won't be able to evacuate fast enough after a crash.

The Federal Aviation Administration runs various tests including how fast passengers can evacuate a plane and how fast they can put on a life preserver. But Cynthia Corbertt, a human factors researcher with the FAA, testified that it conducts those tests using planes with 31 inches between each row of seats. Many passenger jets today have less legroom. For instance, United Airlines has 30 inches of room, known as pitch, on some jets; Spirit Airlines offers 28 inches.

(snip)

Before any new jet is allowed to fly, the manufacturer must prove that everybody can evacuate in 90 seconds with half of the exits blocked. Carry-on baggage is strewn throughout the cabin, and the test is conducted in night-like conditions. However, the cabin is not filled with smoke, and all of the passengers are physically fit, dressed in athletic clothing and know that an evacuation is coming.

(snip)

On long flights, there is another risk for fliers: deep vein thrombosis, where a blood clot forms, typically in a leg vein. If that clot gets lose and travels into the lungs, it can cause a blockage. Nimia L. Reyes, a medical officer with the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, said that seat size isn't necessarily a factor in people developing the clots or not. The real issue, she said, was how able passengers are to get up, walk around and stretch. Those in window seats have twice the risk of getting deep vein thrombosis than those on the aisle seats.

(snip)

Charlie Leocha, the consumer representative on the committee, said the government sets standards for the conditions for dogs flying as cargo. "In a world where animals have more rights to space and food than humans," Leocha said, "it is time that the DOT and FAA take a stand for humane treatment of passengers."

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-airline-seat-risks-20150414-story.html

12 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Angleae

(4,482 posts)
2. The FAA? Do something?
Fri May 8, 2015, 02:09 AM
May 2015

The FAA generally only does something after a major tragedy. Otherwise they go out of their way to avoid hurting corporate profits.

 

SheilaT

(23,156 posts)
3. One of my problems when I fly is that
Fri May 8, 2015, 02:39 AM
May 2015

I'm short (5'1&quot and even for my height have short legs. My feet don't quite touch the floor of the plane, and the particular angle my knees are at is very uncomfortable for me. I realize that very tall people have a different problem with fitting into the space.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
5. I'm even shorter than you are. I am extremely uncomfortable in planes especially in the
Fri May 8, 2015, 03:16 AM
May 2015

middle seat. I need to be able to put my feet on something, my bag or something.

Some people also get restless leg syndrome and leg cramps. The tight seating makes it impossible to reposition your legs.

I go by rail when I can. Lots of leg room. You can safely stand up and walk around. The aisles are wide. I really love the Amtrak trains. Wish we had more of them. And I wish we had a better rail system. The Amtrak trains in my area share with other lines, commuter lines and maybe freight. In some areas we have lagoons across which there is only one rail and our train has to wait for other trains to pass. I have been on trains in which people were sitting in the luggage areas, the areas that are for exiting and entering -- on the floor. We should invest more in our trains. They would relieve a lot of the short-trip fliers.

For example, a good rail line between Los Angeles and Las Vegas would be a great idea since so many travelers go that route on weekends and at other times. (I don't stop in Las Vegas but sometimes have to fly through.)

Our transportation system overall is inadequate for our lifestyle. It is inadequate and inflexible. We need to invest in different transportation choices. I do not see private money doing this job since the profit margin is probably not as high as the margin in producing toys in China. This is yet another reason for supporting Bernie. He understands that we have to invest in our infrastructure. It needs to be updated and to be environmentally friendly. Sorry, but planes are not environmentally friendly. Trains could be more so. It will be a long time before we convert to alternative energy to fuel planes. Could take less time for trains.

 

SheilaT

(23,156 posts)
10. Last summer I flew for the first time since 2007.
Fri May 8, 2015, 09:05 AM
May 2015

I'm a former airline employee, got started before any of the security stuff. I'm extremely unwilling to put up with the bullshit of the TSA or of the airlines themselves.

A bit of a family crisis has come up, and I'll be flying next week, and I'm stuck with a middle seat on one of the flights. I'm not at all happy.

Last summer I took the train from Santa Fe to Portland OR and just loved it.

Public transportation cannot make a profit. Period. It must be subsidized. Most people haven't a clue how much our highways are subsidized, but don't think busses or trains or planes should get any taxpayer money. It's depressing.

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
4. Ye$ but that leave$ out one $uper crucial factor that the airline$ are con$idering, here
Fri May 8, 2015, 02:43 AM
May 2015

$urely the Airline$ are really the one$ be$t $uited to determine what the optimal $eating $pace capacity i$ of their airplane$

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
6. We need alternative forms of transportation. In California, the rail service is wonderful if
Fri May 8, 2015, 03:18 AM
May 2015

you have it, but it is not available in the entire state. We are working on fast rail to connect the North and the South but it will take years and it will not make travel to the coastal areas any easier.

I don't think that the outlook for environmentally friendly planes is very good in the near future. Trains could run on electricity produced from solar energy in our sunny state. Planes -- it will be a long time before we fly commercially on solar energy or any other environmentally friendly form of energy.

dreamnightwind

(4,775 posts)
8. Elon Musk's Hyperloop!
Fri May 8, 2015, 03:24 AM
May 2015

He was trying to get it built instead of the bullet train they are going to build from SF to LA. Pretty amazing. He moved on from the idea, and some other company is now running with the idea.

Firm working on Elon Musk's Hyperloop leases space in L.A.'s Arts District
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-hyperloop-20150325-story.html

dreamnightwind

(4,775 posts)
7. Yeah, it's a real problem
Fri May 8, 2015, 03:18 AM
May 2015

I am only about 6' tall, so normal height, but have long legs, and it can be absolute hell getting through a flight.

The blood clot risk is real, it happened to me on a long drive not a flight, I drive more than I fly, but I can literally not move my legs on most flights, for the duration of the flight, except when I get up. That's insane, I don't even approve of shipping chickens in conditions llike that. I avoid flying whenever possible.

Hekate

(90,657 posts)
9. Flying has gotten horrible. I'm short, but I sit on the aisle now. The issue of DVT is a real one...
Fri May 8, 2015, 03:33 AM
May 2015

...for me, so I make a point of going to the restroom just for the walk. (I also have a pair of support stockings I use sorely for flying.) A few years ago I had a stewardess tell me I should just stay in my seat and I gave her a three word answer: "Deep vein thrombosis."

I understand the overcrowding is a problem for flight attendants too, but at this point in time absolutely no one is going to take care of my health and well being but myself.

Where is our Passengers' Bill of Rights?

mopinko

(70,088 posts)
11. a friend of mine got a thrombosis on a flight
Fri May 8, 2015, 09:29 AM
May 2015

flying to europe. he was sick for months. unable to do his regular job for 6 months. lucky for him he is an insurance agent who lives off repeating commissions, and sales by his staff.
it's a thing.

i like the window seat and rarely get up to walk around. my traveling days are pretty much over, for several reasons. not unhappy about that with flying being what it is these days.

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