About that "victim blaming" schtick, Ms. Geller......

[Tommy_Carcetti]

http://thinkprogress.org/security/2011/08/01/284011/pam-geller-race-mixing-breivik-right/

Pam Geller Justifies Breivik’s Terror: Youth Camp Had More ‘Middle Eastern or Mixed’ Races Than ‘Pure Norwegian’

by Lee Fang Posted on August 1, 2011 at 9:40 am

In a post defending herself yesterday, Geller — who has called Obama “President Jihad” and claimed that Arab language classes are a plot to subvert the United States — reached a new low. Geller justifies Breivik’s attack on the Norwegian Labour Party summer youth camp because she says the camp is part of an anti-Israel “indoctrination training center.” She says the victims would have grown up to become “future leaders of the party responsible for flooding Norway with Muslims who refuse to assimilate, who commit major violence against Norwegian natives including violent gang rapes, with impunity, and who live on the dole.”


To get her point across, Geller posts a picture of the youth camp children Breivik targeted. The picture was taken on the Utøya island camp about 24 hours before Breivik killed over 30 children, so it is likely Geller is mocking many of the victims. Under the picture, Geller writes: “Note the faces which are more MIddle [sic] Eastern or mixed than pure Norwegian.”

[shenmue]

1. Really disgusting

[CharlotteVale]

2. She is such a vile piece of shit.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

3. She's horrible. Ain't lt Quaint that the fascists are back.

I wish I had the psychological profile or moral vacuity to profit off of such hate.

Sadly, no, gladly, I don't.

[LittleBlue]

4. She is a despicable person. But it doesn't change the fact that victim blaming

occurred after the shooting directed toward her.

A victim isn't necessarily a good person

[Tommy_Carcetti]

6. Except for the fact that Geller wasn't the victim.

On the other hand, the people killed by Anders Brevik were.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

8. And children!

[Fantastic Anarchist]

7. Well, that's equally as wrong ...

But to compare children to her is comparing aircraft carriers to tugboats.

[LanternWaste]

13. Victims, by definition, do not consciously and intentionally bait perpetrators.

Victims, by definition, do not consciously and intentionally bait perpetrators for their own notoriety and fame...

[oberliner]

14. Of course they do

Let's say a white racist said that they do not want any black people setting foot in their town - and that any who dared to do so would be shot on sight. In response of group of people both black and white who think this decree is wrong decide to deliberately march into the town - thereby consciously and intentionally baiting the potentially violent racist perpetrator. If they got shot at, would they not still be victims?

[Tommy_Carcetti]

17. Several things:

First, they'd be the ones being shot at. Pam Geller was not being shot at. Someone else--a security guard hired by the city for the event--was shot at and injured.

Secondly, their stated goal would be racial solidarity. They wouldn't be marching into town to prove that all white people are inherently violent.

And lastly, the potential for violence in response to their march, while perhaps realized by the marchers, would be incidental to their stated goals, not the stated desire of it.

[oberliner]

18. Good points

However, I am not saying that what PG did is akin to my hypothetical scenario.

I am posting a scenario in response to the specific question of "can people who consciously and intentionally bait perpetrators still be considered victims" - I think that they can and I tried to present an illustration that makes my point.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

19. Understood.

And I'm sure everyone who was involved in the civil rights movement knew they had to expect violence in response to their civil disobedience, and they had to be willing to accept that risk upon themselves for their cause.

But as both you and I know, Pam Geller's no Martin Luther King.

[oberliner]

20. I admire progressives who take a stand against fundamentalism

Obviously, PG is not that.

It is more than annoying to me that PG has to try to hijack what I think is a noble cause for her own nefarious purposes.

For example, what do you think about someone like Molly Norris?

The vanishing of Molly Norris

http://seattleglobalist.com/2015/02/09/molly-norris-draw-mohammed-cartoon-charlie-hebdo-seattle/32674

What happened to her is a travesty and her story seems to have flown under the radar.

[ann---]

5. Geller is

a hate-filled idiot whose karma won't be pretty.

[niyad]

9. how does that waste of oxygen even breathe through all the hate

and venom and bile?

[cbayer]

10. She's despicable, but I'm ambivalent about giving her further attention

at this point.

While I think articles like this show exactly how heinous she is, I hate to see her continuing to garner attention as a result of this episode.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

11. You're probably right.

But I just couldn't help but point this one out, and the other thread is over 500 posts at this point.

[cbayer]

12. Yeah, that other thread has gotten way too big for my limited bandwidth, lol.

I think this article makes a really important point about the whole victim blaming issue, but I also thing that the handful of people on the site who are still clinging to seeing her as a victim (or even more alarmingly, a hero) has diminished quite a bit.

Most people understand and those that don't aren't ever going to, imo.

You've done a great job here and get credit for opening the eyes of many members.

[carolinayellowdog]

15. a tough call, but as long as Islamophobic hatemongering has support here...

it might be necessary to push back.

I ended up trashing three groups in the Religion category rather than be subjected to the endless ugliness that spills over from one to a couple of others. But when the Islamophobia spills over into GD, I appreciate the pushback.

Thanks to both of you.

[cbayer]

16. Agree that there is need to push back.

I would like to continue to challenge and shine light on those that think it's just fine to express bigotry toward muslims. It's become fashionable. Some celebrity heroes wear it like a badge of honor, so their sycophants think it must be cool.

The ugliness has been pretty extreme, but, as I said, the group is shrinking and that's good.

I just hope we can continue to challenge it while not giving Ms. Geller any more publicity.