James Dobson on Domestic Violence: Women “Deliberately Bait” Their Husbands

[PeaceNikki]

I have seen marital relationships where the woman deliberately “baited” her husband until he hit her. This is not true in most cases of domestic violence, but it does occur. Why, one may ask, would any woman want to be hit? Because females are just as capable of hatred and anger as males, and a woman can devastate a man by enticing him to strike her. It is a potent weapon. Once he has lost control and lashed out at his tormentor, she then sports undeniable evidence of his cruelty. She can show her wounds to her friends who gasp at the viciousness of that man. She can press charges against him in some cases and have him thrown in jail. She can embarrass him at his work or in the church. In short, by taking a beating, she instantly achieves a moral advantage in the eyes of neighbors, friends, and the law. It may even help her justify a divorce, or if one comes, to gain custody of her children. Remember what the Japanese sneak attack on Pearl Harbor did to American morale and unity? It solidified our forces and gave us a cause worth fighting for. There are those who believe President Roosevelt ignored warnings of the Pearl Harbor invasion for the precise purpose of unifying our resolve against a rising Japanese imperialism. In the same spirit, I have seen women belittle and berate their husbands until they set aflame with rage. Some wives are more verbal than their husbands and can win a war of words any day of the week. Finally, the men reach a point of such frustration that they explode, doing precisely what their wives were begging them to do in the first place.

I remember one woman who came to church with a huge black eye contributed by her husband. She walked to the front of the auditorium before a crowd of five hundred people and made a routine announcement about an upcoming event. Everyone in attendance was thinking about her eye and the cad who did this to her. That was precisely what she wanted. I happened to know that her noncommunicative husband had been verbally antagonized by his wife until he finally gave her the prize she sought. Then she brought it to church to show it off. It does happen. (p. 149-50)

Update, 05/07/2015, 11:22 am Pacific: Several people have inquired if Dobson still stands by these statements written in 1983. He does indeed. Love Must Be Tough has been reprinted numerous times and this passage remains. The most recent reprint was 2007 and the passage is still there, unchanged.

From: https://homeschoolersanonymous.wordpress.com/2015/05/06/james-dobson-on-domestic-violence-women-deliberately-bait-their-husbands/

One big takeaway here to me: you are never ever responsible for the violent reactions of another person. Ever. There will always be people who claim provocation, but they are hucksters who are peddling bullshit.

[trumad]

1. The takeaway I got was...

That James Dobson is a Goat Fucker.

[eloydude]

24. The impression I got from Dobson that he may have been sniffing airplane glue for a very long time

and yes, and a zoophile.

[shenmue]

31. Oh yes

He is evil.

[Warpy]

86. And one of those males who thinks women always lie

and other males are always truthful.

I don't know why this senile old fart is still getting access to the press. He should have been laughed into being a hermit decades ago.

[haikugal]

2. Isn't that what they say after they abuse you...you made me do it...

Then they say they'll never do it again! This guy is a rat fucker.

[PeaceNikki]

3. Believe me, I know. He always told me it was my fault and convinced his mother of it as well.

Women who are abused can get sucked into thinking it as well. The cycle of breaking down a victim's psyche to the point that they feel responsible and useless is part of the game.

And this fucker contributes to it.

Fuck him.

[haikugal]

5. Yes he is..I've always hated that guy.

What are those guys that hate women, MRA's, that's what this sod is.

[bluegopher]

4. No doubt. I'll never understand why people even try to make arguments like this.

It's like they're trying to defend the indefensible.

[PeaceNikki]

7. There are a lot of Christians who support this theory. Women should be submissive.

[haikugal]

8. Well if only women would follow scripture they would know how to act..

and to follow two steps behind with their eyes on the ground and silent. These people make me furious.

[Ms. Yertle]

6. Wrong conclusion

I have a friend who has a masters in social work/family educaton, and has studied domestic violence extensively. She explained the situation to me once. She said that often after an episode of violence there is a "honeymoon phase" in which the guy is The Perfect Man--compliments, flowers, gifts, he romances her again, etc. Then, the tension starts building, she knows the violence is inevitable, and she does provoke the dv, just to get it over with, and move on the the honeymoon phase.

Dobson seems to be looking for excuses for dv. He's right that it happens, but wrong about why.

[Bluenorthwest]

9. Many on DU feel that those who are 'provoked' have some rationale for violence just as Dobson

does. The same people say that it would be wrong to criticize Dobson's religious views. They are after all, sincerely held beliefs.
One has to assume that all the 'fighting words' folks would side with Dobson and the provoked husband with the blood on his fist. That's the logic they follow.

[PeaceNikki]

10. I know, BNW. The discussions have brought me back to a dark place where I was blamed

for provoking the abuse against me. I saw this posted on Facebook today and felt it important to share.

People: if you or someone you know is being abused, it's never ever the fault of the victim. They need support and compassion, not blame.

[Bluenorthwest]

11. They can not see the completion of the ideas they are promoting, which is abuse of the weak

at the unhindered hand of the strong. It is for the victims that we must continue to speak.

[PeaceNikki]

12. Thank you for stressing the importance of that.

[calimary]

28. "Sincerely held beliefs" my ass.

I'm getting pretty tired of that trite little phrase.

And dobson is a needle-dick bug-fucker.

[riderinthestorm]

51. +10 million!!!! Agreed. It's been distressing watching some of the dialogue here this week

[beam me up scottie]

89. You must respect religious beliefs, Blue.

No matter what the religious say about you, it's wrong to disrespect them.

[Paladin]

13. If James Dobson is peddling it, I'm not buying.

I suggest that other folks adopt the same outlook. Dobson walked away from the genuinely loving nature of Jesus decades ago; he's nothing more than a right-wing hate merchant, now.

[PeaceNikki]

16. What the fuck? Worse than what, exactly?

[edgineered]

17. There is no excuse for any violence or abuse.

I was perhaps lamely trying to make a point that it really isn't too difficult to not be a bad person.

[PeaceNikki]

18. It sounded like you were saying that being passive aggressive is "worse" than physically abusing som

eone

[bettyellen]

65. No one drives another to be violent, a person can walk away. End it.

Violence is a choice- stop making lame fucking excuses.
He throws a remote out the window and blames her every time he has to get his ass off the couch? Seriously? That person you describe needs to start taking responsibility for their actions. If they feel "driven" they need to grow the fuck up.

[ibegurpard]

15. pig

n/t

[winter is coming]

19. Isn't this the nutjob who was deliberately baited by his dog?

"She made me do it" is classic abuser language. Dobson is a sorry excuse for a human being.

[PeaceNikki]

20. Yes, I believe he used that story to stress the importence of beating children into

submission.

[Orrex]

21. And let's not forget this little gem:

Meanwhile, the boy's father has to do his part. He needs to mirror and affirm his son's maleness. He can play rough-and-tumble games with his son, in ways that are decidedly different from the games he would play with a little girl. He can help his son learn to throw and catch a ball. He can teach him to pound a square wooden peg into a square hole in a pegboard. He can even take his son with him into the shower, where the boy cannot help but notice that Dad has a penis, just like his, only bigger.

-James Dobson

from The Strong-Willed Child

[PeaceNikki]

22. "One of the most influential Christian leaders"

His audience and media empire are far reaching and his teachings widely accepted.

http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/focus-family

[Orrex]

27. Truly inspirational.

[tularetom]

34. A bully AND a perv, huh

Is there no end to the ways Dobson is a douchebag?

[malthaussen]

49. I'd bet in Mr Dobson's case...

... the boy discovered the father's penis was smaller.

-- Mal

[librechik]

23. I bet his wife deserved it every time he slapped her around--that's how he knows

maybe not, but he does believe the old testament is superior the US Legal Code. Bless his heart!

[Orrex]

26. She probably doesn't listen.

So what else is a decent, God-fearing man supposed to do except beat her in accordance with scripture?

[patricia92243]

56. That was my very first thought - he has been abusing his wife and now he has to justify

it to himself.

[99Forever]

25. What a jerk.

Violent assholes are violent assholes and they always have an excuse for being violent assholes. Across the board. James Dobson (whoever that creep asshole is) can go fuck himself.

[PeaceNikki]

29. He's the guy behind "Focus on Family" and "Family Research Council".

He's one of the most influential voices in Christianity today.

Those who demand we "respect" the deeply held beliefs of these assholes can piss off.

http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/focus-family

[99Forever]

32. Ahhh.. another "good xtian."

Wadda surprise.

Where can I find a WWJB (Who Would Jesus Brutalize) bracelet?

[Nuclear Unicorn]

30. The good, obedient and properly submissive wife should know better than to

draw offensive cartoons (if I understand your OP correctly).

[PeaceNikki]

33. I don't really want to make it specifically about that mess,

but there is definitely a tie.

Those who cross a gray area into blaming ANYONE other than the perpetrators for violence are fucking awful because there will always be someone who blames the victim. Always. In addition, I have been told that it's "indecent" to disrespect the beliefs of assholes like this.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

40. I was never "abused" but I had a live-in boyfriend that overstayed his welcome.

You've heard of the type: unemployed, not looking for work while sitting around getting high all day, wouldn't lift a finger around the apartment. I demanded he leave so he left; but one night when I was coming home from work he accosted me in the hallway. He barred my path with his arm and backed me against the wall where he proceeded to scream at me inches from my face about what a hateful bitch I was.

My roommate -- my legitimate one -- came out with a baseball bat in her hand (though she probably could have taken him in a straight fight) and sent him on his way. I remember being so terrified, so uncertain about what could happen next. He never put a hand to me so all I can think about is those women who suffer through that terror -- and the pain -- night after night.

There is only 1 person ever at fault: The person who elects to use violence. The "but"-monkeys can stuff it and I don't care how provoked they feel about being called "but"-monkeys.

[PeaceNikki]

41. I'm so very sorry that happened to you.

It literally brought tears to my eyes because I've been there many times.

I'm glad your roommate was there to stand up for you.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

43. For what it's worth --

I'm with a good man I love completely, wholly, romantically, spiritually, sexually. I could count on one hand the times we've had serious issues but that notwithstanding I couldn't imagine him raising his voice to me let alone a hand. He has literally said to me, "The stronger you are the better I am." And, not coincidentally, I feel the same way about him.

"I've been there many times." That chills me. I hope things are better.

[PeaceNikki]

45. So glad to hear it, NU

Yes, I've been free for 13 years now. It took 10 to get out, but I'm safe and happy now, thanks.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

48. Rock on. You deserve the best.

[PeaceNikki]

50. Thanks, you, too.

[Katashi_itto]

75. Maybe I am being sexist. But I consider any guy that abuses women to be among the lowest

forms of life.

[elehhhhna]

35. it's not about the guy losing control. He uses violence to maintain control

[PeaceNikki]

37. And that's exactly what these monsters want.

Full control of everything around them. Women and children who aren't submissive are to be beaten until they are.

I will not ever "respect their deeply held beliefs" and it's horrifying that some insist that I do or be labeled the "indecent" one.

[Hiraeth]

36. Insane. He should have his divinity degree/license to preach revoked.

[PeaceNikki]

39. Nope, instead he leads an empire,

2.3 million subscribers to ten monthly magazines.

He is heard daily on more than 3,400 radio facilities in North America, in 15 languages, on approximately 6,300 facilities in 164 countries. Dobson's estimated listening audience is over 220 million people every day, including a program translation carried on all state-owned radio stations in the Republic of China. In the United States, Dobson appears on 80 television stations daily.

See more at: http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/focus-family#sthash.JHvxV6UE.dpuf

[oldandhappy]

38. a very sick person

an angry man

[olddots]

42. who is this turd maggot

and why do people pay attention to him ?

[PeaceNikki]

46. He's the guy behind "Focus on Family" and "Family Research Council".

He's one of the most influential voices in Christianity today.

He leads an empire. 2.3 million subscribers to ten monthly magazines.

He is heard daily on more than 3,400 radio facilities in North America, in 15 languages, on approximately 6,300 facilities in 164 countries. Dobson's estimated listening audience is over 220 million people every day, including a program translation carried on all state-owned radio stations in the Republic of China. In the United States, Dobson appears on 80 television stations daily.
Those who demand we "respect" the deeply held beliefs of these assholes can piss off.

http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/focus-family

[AngryAmish]

44. Pam Geller delibrately baited those terrorisys.

How say ye?

[malthaussen]

47. Yeah, I imagine that the percentage of wives who bait their husbands...

... is roughly equivalent to the percentage of MRAs who are disinterested humanists.

-- Mal

[riderinthestorm]

52. Despicable bullshit of the highest order nt

[Thinkingabout]

53. To excuse domestic violence with one with “Deliberately Bait” is not acceptable.

I would say to Dobson, these same people who thinks domestic violence is okay, how would he feel if Jesus was the abused? Probably would not like this. Husbands also “Deliberately Bait” the wives in order to start the abuse. It still is not acceptable. He should never give the okay for domestic abuse, should always rail against it. It is giving the OKAY some abusers needs to continue.

[boston bean]

54. When will these charlatans of the 80's 90's go the way of Jim Bakker?

I wish the media would do a job on these nusto-religious clowns.

[PeaceNikki]

58. Never. There will always be another to replace him. These are core tenents of Christianity.

[patricia92243]

59. Jim Baker is still on TV. Don't lnow about his other outlets such as magazines, etc.

[Trillo]

55. Sounds to me like an argument against some heterosexual marriages.

Perhaps a different type of family structure is needed in some cases, perhaps being single, but humans are both social and sexual creatures and being single doesn't necessarily fulfill either of those, and single status provides little of those aspects.

[PeaceNikki]

57. It's definitely an argument against getting involved with a "God-fearing Christian" man.

[Trillo]

67. I can see your POV. Christian theology has at least two problems,

they probably share these to some degree with other Abrahamic religions, though I'm mostly familiar with christianity. Anyway, christian theology considers sex bad, and it restricts sexual orientation to only heterosexual via marriage and procreation, the only so-called "true" reason for folks to have sex is producing a baby, so marriage is about male and female marrying to have children. Both of these "misteachings" would appear to create various lifelong troubles for some folks, there's intentional confusion regarding human sexuality, orientations, and social mores, so of course there'd be more tension in some marriages.

I've read that christian pastors or ministers often have counseling roles in addition to ceremonial ones, so I'm wondering if this was an ancient method to glue church hierarchy tighter to the villages surrounding each church, deliberately create misunderstandings (by scribing them in their bible) that harm some people deeply, then act as counselor to help repair. "You can't live without us."

Umm, yes we can.

[lunatica]

60. Silly me, I used to hide the black eyes and split lips until they healed

Damn! If I had known that I could parade my bruises around like war wounds which were inflicted on me while I inflicted the same, or far worse against my abuser (because my weapons were far worse!).

Funny how he didn't have to hide his bruises. Obviously I should have paraded my bruises around to punish him! God! I can't believe what an idiot I was to hide my so deserved bruises!

[PeaceNikki]

61. .

[procon]

62. As a survivor of domestic abuse, I tell you Dobson is full of shit!

When men beat up women it's about power and control; not his inability to control his actions -- like any child learns to do -- but his need to control someone else. Its the ultimate power trip for men to dictate every aspect of a woman's life. It feeds his ego and boosts his self esteem... at least for a time.

At his core, my abuser feared being seen as weak and impotent; because he was. He created a fake persona, an avatar, a mask of what he imagined a 'real man' was like. I was merely a prop, someone he directed like a movie extra... say this, do that, look like this... sit, stay, heel. It was all a charade as it wouldn't matter if I did precisely what he wanted or not, the 'consequences' were the same.

Dobson wields his twisted religion like a club, blaming the victim for speaking out or leaving her abuser, and saying she must also shoulder the guilty for not bolstering her tormentor's flagging ego. As if outing him, stripping away his phony mask and exposing his weaknesses and inabilities for the world to see him as the craven weakling that he is, must contradict her terror.

It takes strength and courage just to make the decision to escape and save yourself, but that's when a woman like me finally reclaims her inherent power and realizes how strong she really is.

[PeaceNikki]

64. I stand with you, procon. I'm so sorry you went through that.

You're so correct.

The strength and courage to leave should never be underestimated. We know that leaving will make it get worse before it gets better. And the thought of it getting worse is paralyzing.

Thanks for sharing your story. I'm so glad we got away and my heart is with anyone in an abusive situation. We deserve better.

[Baitball Blogger]

63. I was so young and never heard the woman next door scream, but apparently,

there must have been that kind of abuse going on. Even though I was close friends with the girl who lived in the house next door, we never talked about their troubles. I did notice that she had sallow skin and bruised easily, but the bruises were not any worse in number than the ones I got with ordinary play.

Our families never interacted, but there was one memorable moment when Sara's father came over to talk to my father. I think we knew the guy was an alcoholic. I don't remember if I overheard the conversation, or my father explained the purpose for the visit. But what he told my father was that his wife would continue to push him and provoke him until he beat her, and that she liked it, suggesting that she was a masochist.

This would have occurred during the sixties.

I think the family moved out, not much soon after that.

[PeaceNikki]

66. :(

That is the largest point I wanted to make in this OP. People, a lot of people, think that domestic abuse victims deserve it and/or provoke it in some way. Even the victim can fall into this sick trap during especially dark times. It's so damaging.

[AuntPatsy]

68. So many proudly wear their ignorance for all the world to see.....

Why is his thoughts even given space...

[PeaceNikki]

70. Because they are core tenets of Christianity.

Women are dangerous.

“And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. But women will be saved through child-bearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety. (1 Timothy 2:14-15… As a good Christian woman, the last thing I wanted was to be accused of having a “Jezebel Spirit”!! Jezebel is the bossy, bold and dominating woman, who ‘wears the pants’ in the family, and in the Bible account, things ended badly for her: “’Throw her down’Jehu said. So they threw her down and some of her blood spattered the wall and the horses as they trampled her underfoot.” (2 Kings 9:33)

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/nolongerquivering/2014/09/vyckie-garrison-how-playing-good-christian-wife-almost-killed-me/

[AuntPatsy]

72. What is even more incredibly telling, most such terrorist abusers of those they feel are

Beneath them cling to religious beliefs even if they do not truly believe so they can feel vindicated if attacked by others for such actions...

And yes Dobson and those likewise who believe as they do are in reality fearful of losing their self perceived ruling status.....

I more than despise such individuals who breed hate, they physically make me ill!

[YoungDemCA]

69. James Dobson deliberately "baited" all decent people with words like these

POS.

[Gothmog]

71. Blame the victim is a horrible justification for violence

[procon]

76. Is this a joke... you just forgot to add that sarcasm thingy? nt

[PeaceNikki]

77. Perhaps it was a cry for someone to help her. To ask what happened. To show they care.

I find your post incredibly sad and deeply horrifying.

[boston bean]

78. holy shite, is all I will say and leave it there. nt

[PeaceNikki]

79. It really truly made me very sad that a child would feel that way.

A child who saw that happen. It breaks my heart.

[boston bean]

84. Very sad. And seem to still feel that way,

is very sad.

Abuse does a number on people.

[pintobean]

90. I'm with you Nikki

I was stunned when I opened that hidden post. It sickens me to see that someone alerted, and four people voted to hide, rather than showing empathy and reaching out as you did. I guess some people put thought control ahead of a hurt person's feelings. She never posted again after that. I can't say that I blame her.


I just stumbled across this while looking for something. It was long enough ago that it won't get kicked. I just wanted to voice my opinion, and I didn't want to reply to the person I suspect of alerting.
You're a good person, Nikki.

[PeaceNikki]

91. Thanks, pintobean, I guess I have different prospective than some.

I was in an incredibly abusive marriage with a small child. My son saw and dealt with a lot of shit he shouldn't have had to deal with. And I know he has feelings about it that I can't and won't ever fully understand. But, that post felt really personal and hurt. An abused person doesn't always think rationally in the throes of abuse. In addition, the view from this child's eyes that her mother should hide it as to not embarrass her is a punch to the gut. I really do think it was a cry for help and it makes me so very sad that friends and family don't see that. Especially a grown child when looking in retrospect.

Abuse is horrid for the victims and witnesses, especially children. I do wish we'd have had a chance to talk about it a bit more. Though the hidden post if full of pain and maybe some misplaced blame, maybe it could have helped her or me or... someone.

[mnhtnbb]

74. James Dobson

can go fuck himself up one side and down the other, then inside out and
backwards.

He's nothing but a misogynistic a$$hole.

[xfundy]

80. James Dobson is a child psychologist.

Period. Not ordained, no authority on anything. A child psychologist. Which explains why he's so effective on child-like minds.

[PeaceNikki]

81. He's one of the most influential leaders of Christianity today.

He leads an empire. 2.3 million subscribers to ten monthly magazines.

He is heard daily on more than 3,400 radio facilities in North America, in 15 languages, on approximately 6,300 facilities in 164 countries. Dobson's estimated listening audience is over 220 million people every day, including a program translation carried on all state-owned radio stations in the Republic of China. In the United States, Dobson appears on 80 television stations daily.
Those who demand we "respect" the deeply held beliefs of these assholes can piss off.

http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/focus-family

[xfundy]

82. Yes, he is.

But he's also a child psychologist. Speaking to millions who haven't grown up.

[gollygee]

83. My mom used to send me his parenting advice columns

Ugh. He's a horrible person.

[Liberal_in_LA]

85. omg. what a jerk

[joeybee12]

87. Unfortunately this is not simply limited to the right...

When the Ray Rice mess was happening, Stephen A. Smith (an asshole regardless of political affiliation) commented that women should avoid putting themselves into such situations...what a tool.

[beam me up scottie]

88. Rec and a big thank you for posting this!

Although some would see it as lashing out and rant and raving.

Lawd knows we wimmenfolks always get hysterical over the little things.