The more Obama says Warren is wrong the more I believe Warren is right! NT

[Logical]

[PowerToThePeople]

1. Rec, but I never had any doubt to begin with. n/t

[RiverLover]

17. +1 /nt

[marym625]

2. It's not the lady that protest too much, me thinks

[Enthusiast]

29. +1 a whole bunch!

[Buzz Clik]

3. Just the opposite for me.

Warren's frenetic talk-show tour convinced me she had ulterior motives.

I don't believe one word she said.

[Larkspur]

6. Obama is advised by Wall Street cronys he chose

Obama sounds like those Wall Streeters who complained about Warren's, Brown's, Sanders' anti-Wall Street attacks.

Obama's responses to Warren et al criticisms of TPP are off the mark. He never addresses their concerns. He only uses ad hominem attacks on them. He won't counter their arguments with facts because he knows that Wall Street and Big Business are writing that damn trade deal to suit them, not the ordinary worker and citizen.

[Buzz Clik]

11. Fine. Let's put that to the test.

Let's take the first step and examine the agreement.

If it's as hideous as you say, I'll oppose it just like you.

It's this strange soothsaying that bugs me.

[marym625]

14. soothsaying?

You are aware she has read the TPP and isn't allowed to say what's in it, I assume. So I don't understand you using the word, "soothsaying."

[PowerToThePeople]

15. I agree

Obama should pressure the group to release the text of the document for review. Then we can talk about moving further or not.

[Baitball Blogger]

16. Well I guess we'll just have to wrassel it out of Obama's hands just

so you can look it over and let us know if you find anything in there that bugs you.

[Logical]

49. LOL, think harder, isn't Obama also soothsaying since it is not final? nt

[TheKentuckian]

51. Who cares what you claim to support or oppose after the train has left the station?

You support it no matter what you claim because you have already pressed circumstances where passage cannot be stopped.

[Logical]

8. What are her motives, or you just making up shit? nt

[Buzz Clik]

10. nt

[RiverLover]

18. "frenetic"?

That's interesting you see it that way.

[Lyric]

52. Alert Results

AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service
Mail Message
On Sun May 10, 2015, 01:35 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

Just the opposite for me.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6650696

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Warren has ulterior motives? This is outrageous on a Democratic board. This fellow spews nothing but RW BS on TPP and other issues for which he has 4 hides already. Warren is the strongest voice of progressivism in Congress. Why is Buzz Clik here? To disrupt. Who that is a progressive would say of Warren "I don't believe one word she said"? He has gone BEYOND RW propaganda.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sun May 10, 2015, 01:38 PM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: We don't have deities on this board...All politicians are fair game.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Using the jury system to personally attack a longtime DU'er without consequences is reprehensible behavior. I don't agree with Buzz Clik's opinion, but I don't think he deserves to be attacked either. Especially not here, where he can't defend himself. Shame on the alerter.

Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: There is not anything wrong with this post, poster has posted an opinion which is different from the treads opinion. If this is bad the thread is bad. Even the alert is bad.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Alerter should be utterly ashamed of themselves for trying to use the alert system to stifle criticism of a candidate they like.
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Agree with alerter, time for a Buzz Clik time out.

[docsmasher]

62. 1st amendment

Putting an alert doesnt make it a harmful post. I agree with juror on the leave it option but also have doubts that an alert was created because of the nature of the post alone; rather the opinions stated within the discussion.

[olddots]

4. I so saddly agree

[Fred Sanders]

5. Counterpoint: The more Warren says Obama is wrong the more I believe Obama is right. Touché.

[Logical]

7. LOL, clever. Make that up on your own? Of course you do. I read all your posts. nt

[Larkspur]

9. That's a troll argument

Obama sounds like the Wall Street fraudsters who have recently complained about the anti-Wall Street attacks coming from the Democratic Party, specifically Senators Warren, Brown and Sanders.

[cherokeeprogressive]

20. This comeback has all the appeal contained in a bucket of warm phlegm.

In other words, "I know you are but what am I" doesn't fly here.

[A Simple Game]

31. I'd like to agree with you and because President Obama

told me that anyone who wanted to read the agreement could, right here on DU I requested a copy to peruse. I am still waiting for it to be delivered. For ease of access you would think they would provide an online copy wouldn't you? It's almost like they want to hide something isn't it?

Until I see said provided copy I must defer to Mrs. Warren's un-purchased opinion.

[Fred Sanders]

33. There is a reason trade agreement language has restricted access, historically speaking. Nothing new, even

the reflexive outrage is old school.

[Fuddnik]

35. ?

[A Simple Game]

38. If the language being restricted is reason for the

"reflexive outrage" to be old school, doesn't that mean the "reflexive support" is also?

What do you know about the agreement that makes you so sure you should support it? Me thinks you are blind.

In retrospect do you believe that the "reflexive outrage" about NAFTA was old school?

[whereisjustice]

39. Historically, large multi-national corporations were not the authors and principal negotiators

of Trade Agreements. This is a VERY recent development and the fast track process is a slight of hand to pass, without opposition, one of the broadest, corporate centric pieces of legislation in US history.

This isn't just a "trade deal". In fact, from what has been released, trade is the smallest part of this.

There are far reaching extra-judicial provisions and radical protections for corporations that need to be carefully studied.

If it was a good deal, it would have been made public. It is a shitty deal based on what has been released, based on historical precedent, I'll go with it doesn't get better from there.

[n2doc]

44. Is there anything Obama says or does that you disagree with?

Just Wondering. Haven't see it yet.

[JoePhilly]

45. I'd say, "the more the combustible hair club says Obama is wrong, the more I ...

... believe Obama is right."

The loudest folks on DU about this predicted he'd never end DADT, never end Iraq war, never support ending DOMA, never end Bush tax cuts on the top 1%, definitely cut Social Security, definitely invade Egypt, Syria, and Libya, definitely sign XL pipeline, and said the ACA would be terrible.


They've been wrong so often, I find it very hard to trust them on this.

[tularetom]

12. Me too and that's a shame

[Johonny]

13. I don't see a reason to doubt it

He never got around to her wrong part. He just had vague statements like it would create X amount of economic growth, but no plans how that growth goes to workers, he said it was fueled by NAFTA fears, but no reasons why those fears aren't justified, he claims he has environmental levelers, but didn't state what they are... I mean he knows the bill and if he's going to defend it I need real hard numbers, facts, and dare I say the real bill. It really is put up or shut up. He didn't put up so why should she shut up? She shouldn't.

[cali]

19. I believe my own research and judgment.

It's a bonus that many people and organizations I admire, oppose it, but it's not the biggest factor for me- not by a long shot.

As I have repeated often here: I don't buy my ideas wholesale- no matter the purveyor.

[PSPS]

21. Only the GOP and the hopeless swooners are with Obama on this.

If it weren't for Wikileaks, we wouldn't know anything at all about this catastrophe. When someone who is supposedly "the president of all the people" has to negotiate something in complete secrecy to avoid the pitchforks, they are a charlatan. But, by now, only the swooners still buy this crap.

[Enthusiast]

28. And these guys.....

[Eleanors38]

48. Obama has a gallery of RW ducks to shot at. He pops Warren.

[thesquanderer]

22. Interesting perspective, but not sure it lives up to your name. (n/t)

[AgingAmerican]

23. He won't say why or how

Cuz, you know, it's all top secret and stuff..

[SusanCalvin]

25. And then claims it's not top secret and stuff.

Well, parts of it aren't anymore, but that's not his doing.

[AgingAmerican]

59. The lowly proles just do not understand!

nt

[SusanCalvin]

24. The emperor has no clothes.

Or the ones he does have are provided by the corporations. Probably will disappear at midnight, to mix fairy tales.

[The Second Stone]

26. I won't sign on to any agreement I am not allowed to read or discuss with the people it affects

Nor would I allow any client to entertain such an agreement without having their experts an opportunity to study it. The only thing I've ever seen like this political theater is Jack McCoy demanding a suspect confess for a plea deal in a few minutes or its off the table. It's theater.

And it's not enough to release it to the public. Experts in international law, finance and trade at Universities need to debate it too.

The worst thing about the smell of this deal is that for the first time in 9 years the Republicans are solidly supporting Obama without a word of dissent among them.

I'm also inclined to think that Obama doesn't know what is in the document and lacks the trade and international law expertise from those outside Wall Street to have any understanding of what the consequences of this secret agreement is. And it is secret if I can't read it. Shit, I can find better information on the web on the Manhattan Project that this instrument of surrender.

[ladyVet]

56. If this isn't making anyone question the whole deal, nothing will:

The worst thing about the smell of this deal is that for the first time in 9 years the Republicans are solidly supporting Obama without a word of dissent among them.

Seriously. When have the pukes ever supported him so whole-heartedly? Never, would be my guess, even on things that would be good for them. That raises such a stink, I don't need to see the deal to know it's a heaping pile of shit.

[The Second Stone]

58. If all I am going to be given is Warren's word against Obama's and the Republicans'

I'm going to have to go with Warren. But as a citizen, I'm not allowed to read this trade deal, I only have to be enslaved by it.

And Obama's claim that the Chinese get the short end of the stick on writing the rules was the opposite of comforting. A mutual agreement benefits everyone, not just the stronger bargaining side.

[Enthusiast]

27. Oh, Warren is totally right. And the President? He is totally wrong.

We all know he is totally wrong. He has allowed his love for corporate America go to his head.

[cantbeserious]

30. One Thinks Obama Does Protest Too Much

eom

[CharlotteVale]

37. +1

[True Blue Door]

32. I don't know. I just don't know. I trust them both.

I think they're seeing opposite sides of the same mountain and calling them different mountains.

[SoapBox]

34. When 100% of Republicans and The U.S. Chamber of Commerace are fully behind anything,

it should set off alarm bells for all Democrats.

This will not be good in any way, shape or form for the vast majority of Americans.

I also think this will leave the everlasting bruise on the Obama legacy.

Note the posting now in GD...the Monsanto provision? That's bad and it's the tip of the bad iceberg.

[cantbeserious]

41. ^^^ THIS ^^^

eom

[emsimon33]

60. TPP and its destroying the United States will be Obama's legacy

It will blot out anything good he has done for the country.

[Agony]

36. The TPP can stand on its own two feet and rise or fall on ordinary debate and compromise

anything else is unacceptable.

This is not rocket science.

[whereisjustice]

40. It's secret because it is just too good and Obama doesn't want to overwhelmed us with joy.

[Geronimoe]

42. Faustian Bargain

O got his power by selling all of our souls to Wall Street and Global Corporations.

[Thespian2]

43. Warren keeps her word...

she takes on the banksters...she is not fearful of Obama...whose actions get worse as time goes by...

[Cryptoad]

46. Do you have the Final Certified text of the Treaty,,,,?

Please share if you do.

[Logical]

50. No, does Obama? LOL, get it now? nt

[Cryptoad]

57. I never said Obama did......

i been getting all along.... get it now?

[Eleanors38]

47. I have a problem when Democrats use what juice they have to kick other Democrats.

[Kablooie]

53. I don't get why Obama is acting this way.

It's obviously an ineffective strategy to simply declare someone is wrong with no explanation as to why.

Unless that's the point.
Maybe he deliberately is on the surface against her but using an ineffective strategy in order to lose.

It's confounding as to why he is so vocal about supporting this.
There has to be more going on under the surface.

[Logical]

54. He is way too defensive for me. Odd. nt

[Maedhros]

55. It works for a large swath of his admirers. [n/t]

[emsimon33]

61. Obama's excuse that TPP will keep China from "writing the rules" is a ruse

I have traveled throughout the world extensively these past four years and the rest of the world avoid buying Chinese goods unlike Americans who flock to the Walmarts and Dollar Stores.