Whose version of the killing of Osama Bin Laden do you believe?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

34 votes, 3 passes | Time left: Unlimited
	The White House version
	22 (65%)
	Seymour Hersh's version
	12 (35%)
	3 DU members did not wish to select any of the options provided.
Show usernames Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll

[daleanime]

1. More worry about why we seem to think that killing people....

will stop terrorism.

[NotoriousRBG]

3. Well, killing Ben Laden stopped Ben Laden

[daleanime]

16. And that didn't serve as inspiration for any one else?

Last edited Mon May 11, 2015, 12:53 PM - Edit history (1)

[Bucky]

60. Not as inspirational as, say, invading Iraq over a lie

A lie and an invasion that spawned, literally, a thousand times more terrorists than OBL ever did by blowing shit up or getting his head ventilated.

[daleanime]

61. Agreed, but you would think that we would stop stoking the flames.....

sooner or later.

[Fearless]

39. Bingo.

[JaneyVee]

2. Hersh's version is riddled with inconsistencies.

Until more is known his story doesn't add up. And he has made some wild unsubstantiated claims previously.

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

26. What is the condensed version of his theory?

[LuvLoogie]

4. I believe Osama Bin Laden's version.

Let's ask him.

[stevenleser]

5. Other: A ruthless person got what they deserved. I am not sweating the details

I am anti death penalty.

But if some folks' ugly and murderous deeds end up causing them to lose their lives, I won't waste a second thinking about it or them.

[morningfog]

6. Neither really. No way of knowing, both have holes.

[MohRokTah]

7. I will say something about Sy Hersh's tinfoil story

At least he doesn't have the Seal Team commander demanding Obama just give the order and let them do their job like Freeper tinfoil story.

[geek tragedy]

10. Well, no, he claims they are all liars. Everyone on the planet is a liar except for Hersh's

low-level bureaucratic source, according to the Hersh fan club.

[Bigmack]

8. Hersh's version has fewer holes

than does the WH version. I am CONVINCED that his version is closer to actuality than is the WH version. Ms Bigmack

[geek tragedy]

9. then you are easily CONVINCED by shoddy, unsourced gossip

http://www.vox.com/2015/5/11/8584473/seymour-hersh-osama-bin-laden

[Bigmack]

12. Yeh, well I'm not alone:

iredoglake.com/2015/05/10/us-establishment-press-dismiss-shrug-off-seymour-hershs-story-on-killing-of-bin-laden/

[geek tragedy]

13. firedoglake is an online looney bin where hatred of Obama is almost a requirement

to register and post.

the term "Firebagger" comes from that site.

[Recursion]

20. If your company is FDL that's usually a cause to reconsider

That's the Alex Jones of the Left.

[NCTraveler]

22. You have really shown what politicians are up against....

when it comes to voters in this country. It's sad.

[Godhumor]

41. FDL is like WSWS

You should assume everything posted is wrong.

[onenote]

36. Not even close.

[winter is coming]

11. I really don't give a shit. n/t

[DemocratSinceBirth]

14. Your lack of concern is duly noted.n/t

[stevenleser]

18. Perhaps you can convince us why we should care. What is so important about it? nt

[DemocratSinceBirth]

28. Your ambivalence is duly noted./nt

[stevenleser]

30. So there is no reason to be concerned that you can come up with? That's "Duly Noted". nt

[DemocratSinceBirth]

31. I like to keep my name out there in DU land, that's all...nt

[Lil Missy]

51. Duly note me too, cause I don't give a shit either. n/t

[DemocratSinceBirth]

52. No problem.n/t

[yeoman6987]

19. I'm just glad it was successful and the Objectives were met.

[Greybnk48]

37. I don't give a shit either, he's dead.

Obama got him, as promised. Bush let him go. That's what I know and that's enough.

[Terra Alta]

15. I believe the White House version.

I'm not easily swayed by conspiracy theories.

[closeupready]

17. Since our government lies us into war (with impunity, I'll add),

I'm not prepared to accept their account of ANYTHING on face value.

Further, I learned as a liberal to "ALWAYS QUESTION EVERYTHING".

So I can't really vote in good conscience.

[whatchamacallit]

21. Which White House version? It changed substantially several times.

Rev 1, rev 2, rev 3...?

[cherokeeprogressive]

23. Aren't there three sides to every story? Yours, mine, and the truth?

Your poll offers only two responses.

Since I take NOTHING the government says at face value, I cannot respond by voting. My guess is that the truth can be found somewhere in between the government's claims and Hersch's.

[whatchamacallit]

24. This poll will yield a skewed result

Unlike the authoritarians who believe everything issued from government (and later contradictions) without reservation, people who question authority are loath to follow any single source. This poll will be a slam dunk for the former not for the latter.

[Iggo]

25. At this point, neither.

[arcane1]

27. Without evidence, I have no reason to believe either.

[Maedhros]

29. We know for a fact that the Pentagon lies to us about nearly everything.

Why would Bin Laden's death be any different?

[scscholar]

32. Bush lies!

We know that to be a fact so by definition, the White House version is lies lies lies. The scammer's verison might not be right, but the White House version is a lie.

[samsingh]

33. how can anyone believe hersh's version?

[Bobbie Jo]

35. Apparently

Those who are easily swayed by conspiracy theory and other forms of tinfoilery.

No surprises here...

[djean111]

34. Who is naive enough to think we would ever really know the truth abut anything the government does?

In this particular case, I don't believe anything. So what? What's the point?

[Octafish]

38. If White House version is accurate, how come we don't see the video?

Why don't We the People who paid for the operation get to see mission reports or photographs?

How come the body got dumped in the sea?

How come the guy was killed if he was surrounded?

Wouldn't it make sense to put him on trial and show the world what a mass murderer gets?

More importantly, what he knew would be a real boon to the CIA and the rest of the super secret alphabet soup making war on whoever wonders why do the rich keep getting richer off of wars without end?

We'd only gone to war and killed millions of people who had nothing to do with 9-11, so I think the government has a bit of explaining to do.

Hersh, on the other hand, is doing his job.

[zappaman]

44. "Wouldn't it make sense to put him on trial and show the world what a mass murderer gets?"

We did show the world what a mass murderer gets.

[Octafish]

47. Murdering a murderer is not justice.

And it was never proven he was a murderer. We have the government's word on it.

[Bucky]

59. Shooting an enemy isn't murder

The man bankrolled numerous terrorist plots around the world and owned up to it. It made more sense to shoot bin Laden than, say, invade the wrong fucking country. What's ridiculous is the fact that the Bushies let him walk the earth for an additional 7 years while they played oil-grab a thousand miles away from where OBL was last known to live.

[giftedgirl77]

40. I honestly don't give a fuck one way or the other.

[cali]

42. you need an I don't care option

I truly do not care.

[99Forever]

43. Just checked my Shit That Matters list.

This ain't on it.

[zappaman]

45. The version that says he's dead.

That one is the one I'm going with.

[KamaAina]

46. Bill O'Reilly's.

[pinboy3niner]

53. You can joke about BillO, but you'll falafel about it later

[Gothmog]

48. Hersh has been slipping for some time

This appears to be very shoddy work by Hersh

[malthaussen]

49. I think there are far more important things to worry about. n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

50. Until a lot of shit is declassified in 50 years

We will really not know.

It would not be the first time a WH narrative of an event changes as that material is declassified. But it would not be the first time doubts start to emerge from low level retired folks who had some access either of course in 50 years your kids will give like two shits and j and you will likely be pushing daisies

[Cali_Democrat]

54. Hersh has been predicting a US attack against Iran for over a decade.

Once the nuclear deal was reached, he probably lost his shit.

He hates Obama for not carrying out an attack against Iran which would have validated his crap.

[Chathamization]

55. He said the Bush administration was planning an attack on Iran. That doesn't seem terribly crazy.

In fact, it seems rather likely, and I don't recall Democrats criticizing those articles at the time.

[Cali_Democrat]

56. He said the same under the Obama admin as well

A nuclear deal makes it much harder for even the next admin to attack Iran.

Hersh knows this.

He's pissed.

The time he spent writing bullshit about Iran was all for not.

[Chathamization]

58. Where did Hersh say Obama would attack Iran? N/T

[EX500rider]

57. BBC's take on it:

• Unreliable sources. Much of Hersh's article is based on the claims of unnamed intelligence officials in the US and Pakistan, none of whom were directly involved in the operation. The only named source, Asad Durrani, served in the Pakistani military intelligence more than two decades ago and says only that "former colleagues" of his back up Hersh's claims. Durrani was later contacted by CNN's Bergen, and he would only say that Hersh's account was "plausible".

• Contradictory claims. Hersh disregards the fact that two of the Navy Seals involved in the attack on Bin Laden's compound have come out with details of the raid that directly contradict his account. Bergen, who visited the compound after the operation, writes that there was clear evidence of a protracted fire fight, as the location was "littered almost everywhere with broken glass and several areas of it were sprayed with bullet holes".

• Unrealistic conclusions. Why would the Saudis support a man who wanted to overthrow the Saudi monarchy? Why, if US support for Pakistan was part of the bargain, did US-Pakistani relations deteriorate in the years after the raid? If the US and Pakistan were co-operating, was a staged raid really the simplest possible way to ensure that Bin Laden was killed?

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-32698016

As is often the case with conspiracy theories, perhaps the sharpest criticism of Mr Hersh's narrative is that it relies on a large cast of characters operating effectively while maintaining universal secrecy. Vox's Fischer accuses Hersh - who won a Pulitzer in 1970 for exposing the My Lai massacre of Vietnamese civilians at the hands of US soldiers - of producing a growing number of difficult-to-believe exposes based on tenuous evidence.
In the last three years, for example, he has penned pieces alleging the George W Bush administration trained Iranian militants in Nevada and that Turkey was behind chemical weapons attacks in Syria.
"Maybe there really is a vast shadow world of complex and diabolical conspiracies, executed brilliantly by international networks of government masterminds," Fischer writes. "And maybe Hersh and his handful of anonymous former senior officials really are alone in glimpsing this world and its terrifying secrets. Or maybe there's a simpler explanation."

[okaawhatever]

63. Thanks for that. It really clears things up. Too much doesn't fit with Hersh's story. nt

[CrawlingChaos]

62. Well I certainly don't believe the White House version

Why would anyone?

[Unvanguard]

64. I'm quite sure the White House version is closer to the truth than Hersh's conspiracy-mongering.

That does not mean that the White House is a full and accurate depiction of events, especially since it's not clear the US government knows everything (e.g., about the degree to which Bin Laden had support from parts of the Pakistani government).