"Airbnb is just like Uber. It's Desperation Capitalism"

[Liberal_in_LA]

Comment following article in la times. Sums up my suspicions about the growth in these types of companies
______
I can understand folks wanting to rent rooms in their homes for extra money but the thing is, Airbnb is just like Uber. It's Desperation Capitalism.

Things like this one would hope would make people think. Think about why people need to rent out rooms in their homes to strangers or haul strangers around in their car. Think about what has brought us to this point.

It's not innovation, it's simply desperation and to say otherwise is to ignore the economics of America today.

The banks, aided and abetted by politicians of both parties wrecked the middle class. It's the same reason demand is still weak in the economy. The wealthy have too large a share of the pie anymore and that's the problem. It's not the wealthy's fault that it's the way it is, it's the fault of politicians who let the banks loose to loot and at the same time cut taxes for the wealthy at the expense of everyone else.

The Airbnb thing is not the solution, it like Uber is a symptom of a much greater problem...
http://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-fi-santa-monica-airbnb-20150512-htmlstory.html#panel=comments

[corkhead]

1. "Think about why people need to rent out rooms in their homes to strangers or haul strangers around"

Excellent point I hadn't thought about until now.

thanks for posting

[yeoman6987]

3. They used to have these type of things in the

50-60's where people stay at a home for a few days where they got a breakfast in the morning.

[Cal Carpenter]

6. Yeah, they're called bed and breakfasts

and 'they' still have them.

This is different.

[pscot]

16. Woot!

[Starry Messenger]

42. lol

[My Good Babushka]

32. Yes, boarding houses. nt.

[silvershadow]

12. I love your sig line. nt

[cilla4progress]

2. From my personal experience, I beg to differ -

at least based on my own Air BnB experience.

We stayed at one in Quepos, Costa Rica last year. The owners have 3 units at their residence, that they developed for guests. Seemed like small-scale, local capitalism, to me. We were happy to contribute to the local economy.

And it was a fabulous place.

https://www.airbnb.com/rooms/694306?s=4VkT

[Gormy Cuss]

40. That sounds like a small hotel

rather than renting a room or their home occasionally, which is allegedly the way AirBnB touts itself.
Some U.S. cities would treat it as professional lodging and subject it to whatever regs apply.

[Initech]

4. That article is wrong. It's 100% the fault of the wealthy that we're in the position we're in.

The only interest that the wealthy have is to become wealthier, is it not? The politicians didn't rob our pensions and retirement funds to buy car elevators. I mean how many fucking houses does a person need? And when the only thing that you have left to buy is your government, you have too much money!

[cilla4progress]

64. Dunno.

Point is, they didn't seem to be desperate!

[Travis_0004]

5. There are a lot of people that have rental homes they are renting on Airbnb

I can see the potential to make more money on AirBnb renting out a home, then to rent it out to long term tenants.

[Egnever]

7. Silly

Putting customers and suppliers together is basic capitalism. These are just new ways of making it happen. If the folks driving or renting were forced to do so on anything other than their own schedule this article might have a point. But as far as I can see all parties seem to be quite happy with the arrangement.

[Psephos]

10. sensibly said - thank you

my experiences with Uber and AirBnB have been uniformly great...they are welcome alternatives to the old and entrenched choices

[LibDemAlways]

13. AirBnB is a great alternative to

overpriced hotel rooms. Graduation weekend in Santa Barbara is coming up for the families of UCSB seniors, and the hotels are taking full advantage by gouging parents and other out of towners - from $299.00 for a room at the Motel 6 to $600 and up for a Best Western to over a grand at the resort hotels in the area. I refuse to be ripped off and checked out AirBnB instead. I booked a nicely furnished 2 bedroom condo with living room, kitchen, and a patio through AirBnB for $178 a night. The owner will be making some money and I'm saving a lot. It's a win-win.

[philosslayer]

35. Santa Barbara misses out on the additional tax revenue

That a hotel stay would have created. Its not a win win. You may win, and the owner may win, but the city and its citizens lose.

[stevenleser]

37. It's not quite that simple. The regular Joe or Joanna making that money spends it locally.

A hotel getting the room fee sends those profits back to a corporate center which is probably not located where the hotel is. Compare a hotel that gets $250 a night for the room of which $35-$45 might be local tax. Only the local tax goes into the local economy.

The AirBnB person might charge $125 for the room, but they spend almost all of that locally. The city and its citizens see more money injected into the local economy.

But it's even better than that. If we consider a week long stay, the guest spending $250/night has less disposable income to spend on restaurants, attractions, etc. The guest staying at the AirBnB has saved over $800 in our scenario all of which can be spent on the local economy.

I am not ready to say I support or don't support AirBnB, because I haven't spent a whole lot of time looking into this, but the tax revenue argument isn't as simple as you make it out to be.

[closeupready]

38. Good points. Though I don't like AirBnB generally, I can't deny

the idea that the money spent through AirBnB is far more likely to be spent locally than sent to corporate HQ where it gets siphoned into a slush fund/expense account/bonus reserve/etc.

[philosslayer]

44. Here's the bottom line....

If you're going to run a public accommodation, there are taxes. Hotel taxes. And when you use AirBnb, you don't pay those taxes. And i'll bet dimes to dollars that the owner doesn't pay the taxes either. It's technically illegal, and definitely immoral.

Its just like making an internet purchase (at least in several states). You think you're getting a great deal because you aren't paying sales taxes. Well, good for you. You're also stealing from the state.

[stevenleser]

46. That's not the bottom line. It is one way of looking at it that omits many pieces. nt

[DanTex]

51. I disagree. I think they should have to pay hotel taxes.

Even if you were right about the economics, but I don't see how that makes a difference in terms of what the fair tax law should be. For example, if a hotel is locally owned, do they still have to pay hotel taxes? If a hotel only charges $125 per night, do they still have to pay hotel taxes?

If they answer is "yes, the do" to both those questions, I don't see why an airBnB is any different than an inexpensive, locally owned hotels.

And also, not all airBnBs are inexpensive. I've rented a place on airBnB for $600 a night -- granted it was 3 bedrooms, but still, that is hardly a budget price. And, arguably, I actually spent less money on local attractions because the house was so great that we stayed in, cooked, and enjoyed the view more than we would have in a hotel room.

[stevenleser]

54. I'm not opining on whether they should, I'm saying what happens and how it affects

the local economy.

[philosslayer]

58. Well if you don't pay taxes...

You are impacting the local economy. In a negative way.

[LibDemAlways]

65. The hotels will still be full at premium rates and the city will collect

every penny of tax revenue it's entitled to. I will be spending the money I've saved by not being gouged on an overpriced hotel room on dinner out at a nice restaurant for 6 people. I will be paying tax on the meal and will provide a generous tip to the server.

People who rent a property on AirBnB are not out to stiff the local government. They are generally seeking comfortable accommodations at a reasonable cost. Perhaps the local powers that be should be looking into the exorbitant rates charged by hotels that drive people toward the alternatives.

[moondust]

8. Some other signs, IMO.

Efforts to privatize the commons including prisons, military (Blackwater, food service, and tons of other contractors), VA, post office, intelligence services, etc. I think it's usually Republicans behind this who then try to hand out the private contracts to their buddies, such as Halliburton's no-bid contract in Iraq.

Perhaps there are limits to innovation and consumerism where shoppers already have an abundance of choices in most everything and wealth is highly concentrated.

[Warren DeMontague]

23. I think cab service is an area where shoppers most definitely do not have an abundance of choices.

cab service sort of sucks, in most cities I've seen.

[stevenleser]

57. And until Uber came it didn't hit home just how bad cab service was.

The ability to have a cab come to where you are on demand and take you to where you want to go is an extremely valuable service.

Before Uber, getting a car in bad weather was almost impossible in NYC. Maybe 1 in 8 people who wanted one got one.

[Warren DeMontague]

59. or else it was one of those things like the weather.

you can complain about it, but no one expects to be able to actually do something about it.

[Nye Bevan]

9. Wait..... nobody rented out rooms in their homes prior to Airbnb coming on the scene?

Because I could have sworn my in-laws did exactly that about 60 years ago to afford the mortgage on their first house.

[Mariana]

43. Once upon a time, you placed classified ads for such things

or you hired an agent to find tenants for you. Now, the ads and/or agencies are online. I really don't see much difference.

My parents live in a resort area, near the beach. There were plenty of ordinary people there who were renting out their houses on a short term basis long before the internet existed.

[Warren DeMontague]

11. The people I know who rent out on airbnb or drive for uber are, generally, psyched to do it.

This is someone pursuing a narrative without a whole ton of regard for the reality, looks to me.

[redruddyred]

15. psyched to have a job

or psyched because it's such a great one compared to most retail hellholes?
that said I kinda agree with you on the 'pushing a narrative' bit.

[Warren DeMontague]

17. I'm sorry, but I don't buy the line that this is a symptom of economic dysfunction.

Instead, I think this is one area where the "Silicon Valley" line about disruptive technologies improving things is, actually, true. The hotel industry and particularly the overly restricted cab system that operates in many major metro areas- as anyone who has dealt with the almost mob-like cab monopolies that operate in some places can attest- are both areas of the economy that could stand some major long-overdue improvement.

I'm all for it.

I do think the retail hellhole aspect is a symptom of economic dysfunction, having been there myself- but in that case anything that provides people with more options ought to be celebrated. I'm not sure what, beyond a livable minimum wage (which I heartily support) can be done about it.

[redruddyred]

19. what I'd really like to see them fix is higher education

they keep promising to do that but seem to remain mired in the old model.
for example, I'd posit that video lectures are pointless and unnecessary. research shows that lecturing is an entirely inefficient means to impart information.
I was annoyed when I learnt that this was what coursera and edx were all abt as my education from this point has consisted of reading the book and turning the hw in on time. the profs are just there to answer questions.
needless to say, I refuse to waste any more money on tuition.

that rant aside, here's robert reich's take, a good deal of which I agree with: http://robertreich.org/post/109894095095
the two parts which stand out to me:
1. unpredictable hours
2. uber takes a hefty, hefty profit

do comment.

[Warren DeMontague]

22. I agree. But they're filling a niche which has been sorely neglected by the fucked up way we've

handled the process of letting a small number of outlets monopolize what is generally shitty and unreliable cab service, in many cities.

I don't pretend to know a ton about uber, what I do know is I have some long-time friends who are creative personality/freelancer writers who also are real "people person" types, who would probably jump at the chance to drive strangers around for free. So this way they get to immerse themselves in humanity and the myriad stories which take place in a large city, on their own terms, and get paid for it.

Since, like I said, it's filling a glaring need anyway, I don't see much of a downside.

[redruddyred]

26. sounds legit.

I just had a total stranger invite me to become a bnb host, we'll see how that goes.
I have my reservations I will admit.
from the other perspective, my experience of staying in other people's houses is that they view you primarily as a nuisance, regardless of what good money you are paying them to be there. especially the older people who have always lived in single-family homes.
a decline in our standard of living it is indeed.

[Warren DeMontague]

28. I think, for real, it sort of depends on personality type in many cases, if you're not talking pure

necessity.

Like I said, I know enough people who absolutely thrive on being around other people, all the time. I'm completely not one of them.

I do fine in social situations, and considering that I was a pretty shy kid I'm fairly outgoing, even... but I still tend towards being a bit of an introvert. Or at least, liking my own space. The thought of having strangers in my house all the time, no... for me it wouldn't be worth it.

But for the "I love to meet new folks all the time" crowd, I could see how they'd eat it up.

[redruddyred]

31. I think most employment situations are geared towards the

"I love to meet new folks all the time" crowd.

[Warren DeMontague]

33. True dat, certainly if you're talking retail. I had a good chunk of a decade in a VERY public kind

of gig like that; fortunately it was a funky, alternative, anti-corporate sort of company with a lot of freaky people and customers, in a cool place. But it was a very much on stage in the public eye kinda deal, for a while.

I'm good at that, I can completely turn it right on when I need to, and I even kind of enjoyed it... but I also discovered that ANY job working with the public on a daily basis is liable to turn you into a bit of a misanthrope, after a while. (The breakdown I came up with was, 70% of the customers are just there to get what they need, they're decent and unobtrusive for the most part, kind of neutral. 20% are the salt of the Earth, people you become friends with and even hang out with after work... but that other 10%.... ohhhhh, that other 10%.... fuck, they will GRIND YOU DOWN eventually, at any job working with the public)

... but I was thinking more in terms of people who have a big or nice enough home that they could conceivably turn it into an attractive destination or place to stay for travelers, that was where my response was coming from. I've definitely done the situation of working an 8 hour shift of meeting new people all the time, but the idea of having them brushing their teeth in my bathroom at 3 AM is something different.

[redruddyred]

34. number one secret to why red is such an a-hole:

taking the piss out of 'real' arseholes.
aka why half this forum hates me.
customer service experience ftw.

[Warren DeMontague]

70. Ha!

I completely know where you're coming from.

[CreekDog]

20. psyched to make $10-$15 per hour?

that's interesting.

[Warren DeMontague]

21. Yep.

From what I've seen, the ones I know are enjoying the crap out of it.

Just calling it like I see it.

[CreekDog]

48. how much are they making per year, net?

i had a job i really loved that paid minimum wage.

and i had an internship that i enjoyed the crap out of that only paid a stipend.

i don't doubt there are things you can enjoy the crap out of, but the point others are making here is not whether it's possible to enjoy something.

it's about whether these things provide the things necessary to a middle class standard of living (and benefits and retirement or the means to acquire those). the sharing economy is a great thing to the extent that it provides extra, but it is an inadequate replacement for good jobs.

[Warren DeMontague]

61. We're talking about two specific gigs, or more precisely potential revenue making situations;

uber, and airbnb.

airbnb, for one, is -like I said upthread- mostly going to involve people who have a nice home or apartment, nice enough that they can take some space from it and offer it as an attractive place for travelers to stay. That, to me, sounds less like a "adequate replacement for good jobs" situation, and more like the "extra income" demographic.

As for uber, again- like I said, I know some people who are creative freelance writer/author types, who generally mine human urban experience for stories AND thrive on meeting people, and certainly I suspect they are supplementing their income by driving for uber on whatever schedule they use, not depending on it as a sole job.

Again, not saying that's "good" or "bad" in the larger scheme of things, but they are liking it. That's what I've seen.

I don't know if the "sharing economy" has ever claimed or pretended to be "an adequate replacement for good jobs". And this article is making a misguided argument, in that regard- if "the sharing economy" wasn't there, it's not like the good jobs would be.

The lack of good, solid, 9 to 5 jobs with livable wages and the like is a separate issue, as far as I can see. What uber and airbnb are doing is shaking up industries that fail to meet consumer needs adequately, and in the process probably providing some extra income to people who are situated to provide those services. I doubt too many people are being "driven" to become airbnb hosts by "desperation", for one. People are driven to work a 2nd job at the minimart or become walmart greeters by desperation, but that is a different story.

[geek tragedy]

18. Silly article.

People rent out rooms and homes on airBnb because they want some extra cash.

Everyone wants extra cash, and that's been the case for a long, long time.

Has the author heard of VRBO?

[CreekDog]

49. some people in areas with high cost housing are being forced into it

[marions ghost]

62. Agree

--for some it's gravy, for others it's necessity.

You'd have to break the number down re which it is. I imagine in CA, necessity could win out.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

24. That's a little over the top, a lot of people I work with love it

I don't and wouldn't but I understand the appeal.

A lot of the people I work with, and I'm one of them have to live abroad for extended periods. Mostly Canada and France, but also the UK, South Africa and elsewhere on a smaller scale but these projects can also be pretty precarious and renting their homes to a long-term tenant while they're abroad isn't very appealing if they find themselves back in the US on short notice and there is somebody in their house with months left on the lease.

A few of them have had problems and concerns, such as a tripod light left behind in a bedroom and another found a little baggie of white powder taped behind a headboard, one person had cars parked on their lawn. But otherwise it's pretty lucrative. A girl in the office handles the keys and what-not for them. Their personal stuff is moved to storage, something the company will actually pay for while they're abroad.

[daredtowork]

25. Not to mention it's taking rooms off the rental market

AirBNB adds to the housing crisis in major urban areas.

[GoneOffShore]

36. Yes and no

It's pretty nuanced.

Particularly if you're an owner-occupier (full disclosure: I am an AirBnB host and have been for 6 years).

If I had several rental units, in this market (Philadelphia), I would not be renting them out via AirBnB - too much liability exposure, too many problems with taxes, etc, etc. As it is, we rent out one room in our house which wouldn't be on the rental market otherwise. And even if I had another room to rent, that wouldn't be on the long term market either.

Sure, there are folks who are doing the multiple unit rentals, but the problem is not as vast as assumed, and those who do this always find a way to maximise their money.

[meaculpa2011]

30. My wife and I have been staying in B&Bs for...

more than 40 years.

Great way to travel and meet people.

In the old days we bought a printed directory and now we use a cell phone.

BTW: We also rented to "strangers" when we were first married. Bought a two-family house in NYC. It was the only way we could afford our own home. Now that our kids are grown I'm converting a part of our house into a rental unit.

[alarimer]

39. I don't like them because they are an end-around necessary regulations.

Basic standards of safety, licensing, etc.

I hate, hate, hate the "sharing" economy. It is a fucking scam and a libertarian dream. If you get hurt in an Uber-driven car or at someone's unsafe spare room, good luck collecting.

Fuck Uber and it's ilk.

[Gormy Cuss]

41. Libertarian dream -yes.

A thousand times yes.

[Starry Messenger]

45. Boom.

[PasadenaTrudy]

52. +1

It's the Siphoning Up economy..

[abelenkpe]

55. + 1000 nt

[Fumesucker]

63. The regulations have led to a miserable public transportation experience in the USA

There are a few bright spots but overall public transportation in the USA doesn't really exist and the regulations a lot of places have made not having a car and depending on public transportation much more difficult if not outright impossible.

No public transportation inevitably leads to private transportation since transportation is a necessity in our civilization as currently embodied, in any case the condition of public transportation is the responsibility of those who determine policy.

Living without a car for a while somewhere walking is wildly impractical and public transportation does not exist is an education I think we all should get at some point.

[leftstreet]

67. +1

[Throd]

47. The pantie-wadding is strong in this thread.

If I had some spare rooms, I'd rent them out. It would be a great way to meet people, provide them a nice place to stay, and make some extra cash.

[CreekDog]

50. why does everybody think this is for "extra money"?

there are a ton of people in this country that have no extra money.

[Throd]

53. I'm speaking about my own situation.

Renting out some extra rooms would be a good way to get some "extra money". That would be my motivation.

[Lars39]

56. Pick up some bed bugs and you're good to go!

[LibDemAlways]

68. Thanks, Throd.

Why people are upset that others seek alternatives to hotel rooms or taxi services by renting from AirBnB or taking an Uber escapes me. If local government wants to more closely regulate these types of businesses, they are well within their right to do so. However, I should be free to choose to stay in whatever kind of accommodation suits me and my budget- from a campground to the Ritz. It's nobody's business but mine.

[customerserviceguy]

60. Uber and AirBnB

Just like hitchhiking and couch surfing, with money involved.

[treestar]

66. People have always done these things

The internet makes it easier to connect.

[GoneOffShore]

69. Thank you. And, as a friend always says, scene.