Y'all don't get it

[WestSideStory]

Today wasn't about TPP. Today was about making the first black President a lame duck. The Republicans don't care about TPP, and I guarantee they didn't care about NAFTA. Rather, they know trade and globalization is a wedge issue in the Democratic Party.

I support the President and I trust the Administration's judgment in negotiating a trade deal with any country; the same way I trust the President to negotiate with Iran. If you don't, you're a bit schizophrenic!

Today, the Senate Democrats gave full control of the federal government to the Republicans.

[brooklynite]

1. That makes no sense...

The Republicans were the votes in FAVOR of cloture and several spoke in support of the President's efforts.

[daleanime]

16. +1

[roguevalley]

69. If Mr. Obama becomes a lame duck out of this then he did

it with his own actions. I don't care how the bill was halted but that it was. I have little kids in my family. I want them to have a future. Why Mr. Obama doesn't want that too and drop this abomination is the question of the century for me.

[H2O Man]

107. Yes, but

other than reality, the OP makes a lot of sense. Especially the third chapter.

[sendero]

2. No ...

.... really you don't get it. this is about killing legislation that could not be more toxic if it tried.

Take your epic fail cult of personality somewhere where folks are stupid enough to buy it.

[cali]

5. + 1

[Egnever]

15. I don't think that is even close to right

It is much more about posturing. The Dems would have voted for it if the Republicans had added the two amendments the Dems wanted inserted. This is kabuki theater they can now play it however it works for them. They can say of course I voted against the evil The or they can say I would have voted for fast tracking if they had just allowed these amendments.

Sadly as if taking a page from the Republicans they tried to at least in the case of one of the amendments insert language that had no chance of being accepted.

Fast track was not defeated today it was postponed.

[cali]

29. no,the vast majority would not have

And though the fight isn't over, and it may pass in the Senate, the odds of it passing the house are much slimmer.

[Egnever]

68. Why would you think that?

They are far short of the votes to block it in the house and Reid is clearly going to find a way to get it done in the Senate...

Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.), who rallied his caucus to reject the fast-track measure on a procedural vote, has already floated a plan to find a way out of the impasse by offering to drop a customs bill, which includes anti-currency manipulation language, from his party’s list of demands.

While his initial overture likely won’t settle the issue, and top Republicans said they were skeptical of Reid’s proposal, Democrats’ willingness to return to the bargaining table suggests the trade measure may not be dead. And pro-trade Democrats huddled with the White House on Tuesday evening, as the administration looked for a way forward.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2015/05/trade-vote-senate-mitch-mcconnell-117850.html#ixzz3ZzWNLRE5

[sendero]

74. Of course the fight is not over..

... but winning round one is better than losing it.

[840high]

45. ...^ that

[L0oniX]

55. +2

Smack!

[Skittles]

12. Tiger Beat logic

oh yes

[Skittles]

27. the usual

oh yes

[LondonReign2]

43. Several of the usual suspects

Nothing is too dumb to rec for them

[bunnies]

59. Tiger Beat...

Holy shit. You just took me back in time. Yes indeed.

[Art_from_Ark]

70. When I was a kid, David Cassidy (aka "Keith Partridge") was all the rage among young girls

I even read some of the articles and fan letters about him in Tiger Beat while hanging around the magazine rack at the drug store. There are definitely parallels between those articles/fan letters and what I sometimes see posted in these forums.

[bunnies]

109. You are so right.

lol. This was my era:



Ahhh. Memories.

[Art_from_Ark]

116. Oh, yeah, John Stamos and Scott Baio

The '80s versions of David Cassidy and Bobby Sherman.

[Jamastiene]

83. Exactly!

It's like when you say you don't like one of the New Kids on The Block singers. There will always be that one girl that is his super fan and she will damn near cut your throat over anything she perceives as criticism of her idol. I learned back in the 90s not to mess with the New Kids on The Block fans. They bite too.

[Skittles]

115. right

I think what is ironic is, they do a disservice to their idol, because that idol would find them as ridiculous as we do......true fans see the good AND the bad

[okaawhatever]

35. No. The poster was trying to point out that if you trust the President to negotiate something

like nuclear weapons with Iran you should trust him to negotiate a trade deal. Also, no one had a problem with the Iran deal being kept secret until it was appropiate to announce it.

[Hoyt]

49. Yeah, but we didn't have Warren and Sanders playing politics with Iran.

I agree with your point.

[TheKentuckian]

61. Why? They aren't even similar areas. It is entirely possible to trust a person in one area but not

another for any number of reasons.

One can also give a lot more trust in areas where there is no plausible downside.

What is going to be negotiated in a non proliferation agreement with Iran that can be anything but positive? Hell, I don't particularly care if Iran gets the bomb in present context. I don't want anyone including the US to have them but having them probably more than anything handcuffs the neocons but I'm not adamant about that opinion so if Obama or anyone (yes, including a hyper fictional, hypothetical Republican) wanted to work a deal otherwise I'm not seeing any skin coming off my nose.

Save this dumbass argument for the morons fearing sharia law at the point of an ICBM and Israel turned into a sheet of glass. Can you even articulate a reasonable downside on an Iran nonproliferation deal? I can't even define a deal that is bad for the American people.

This line of reasoning is bizarre as can be like a two dimensional black and white caricature of humanity when plain observation will tell you we all have strengths and weaknesses with areas of expertise and complete incompetence.

Your Teabagger relative can't be trusted in the voting booth a bit but might be awesome with the kids.

The best plumber in the world might he a bad mechanic.

Hell, a place may have the best brisket ever and the chicken can be meh.

Why should I distrust Hillary Clinton on women's health because I don't trust her with regulating multinationals?

There are dudes you can trust with your wallet and not your woman and vice versa.

There are folks who you can trust with your pets that will kill every plant in the house.

Why would I have not trust Dick Luger on nonproliferation despite not having much faith on about any other subject?

I don't see how this is even apples to bananas much less apples to apples. The expectation is kinda batty.

[okaawhatever]

63. I stopped reading at this: Save this dumbass argument for the morons. nt

[leftofcool]

76. Seems to me if you want to make an argument

you don't start out by calling someone else's argument dumb. People just stop reading.

[99Forever]

88. You should have kept reading.

Clearly you NEED the education.

[Jamastiene]

81. Actually, it is not that no one has a problem with nuclear weapons deals

being kept secret. It is that those types of things are usually classified from the get go anyhow. There is really nothing we can do about that. It doesn't mean some of us wouldn't want to see what is going on there too.

[treestar]

94. You have to support and trust Elizabeth Warren

then you are mentally A-OK.

[cali]

4. that makes no sense

Convoluted nonsense. Pretzel logic.

Carry on.

[Jesus Malverde]

6. 3d chess eh

[rurallib]

7. methinks your logic is backward

why would Dems want to scuttle Obama and help elect Republicans?

[WestSideStory]

11. You ever watch House of Cards?

I don't take any federal elected politician at face value.

[rurallib]

14. no - nor do I have any intention to.

Seems like much of our power structure and all the paranoid citizens watch 1 hour cops-and-robber shows or other fantasies and take them to be reality. It is some writer's mind game.

[Cal Carpenter]

18. Does that include Obama?

Why would he be any different? Just because he brokered a nominal nuclear deal, why should that mean he will break from tradition on 'free trade'?

[Maedhros]

8. What utter nonsense.

Ignore list for you.

[fadedrose]

9. He was a lame duck after the 2014 election

when he executive ordered the immigration thingy, and made pals with Cuba, and some other stuff I forgot, oh, I remember. He started talks with Iran much to the consternation of the hawks and Netanyahu, and Boehner.


He doesn't know he's a lame duck...Shhhh,,,,don't tell him.

[WillyT]

10. Oh... It's Sooooo Tempting...

Yet... I can justify the use of "ain't".

[JaneyVee]

13. Not really, but...

I sense this won't bode too well for some up for re-election, OFA has a huge fanbase across demographics that are already snubbing voting for candidates that have turned their backs on Obama. Hopefully they will be motivated to the election booth by the fact that Republicans are a clear and present danger.

[LondonReign2]

44. "Turned their backs on Obama" = voting on the policy rather than the party/polotician

[grasswire]

52. why is OFA relevant at all?

Why does it even continue to exist? The man will never stand for election again, and will have no voice in shaping America soon.

[JaneyVee]

60. Mailing lists, voter registration, volunteers, etc.

[grasswire]

67. but you say in your post that OFA members will punish anyone who ...

..."turned their back on Obama." Why would anyone want to influence 2016 elections simply to avenge a soon to be ex politician? That makes no sense at all.

[Jamastiene]

84. Tiger Beat fandom

Among some, it is a very real phenomenon. Why? I don't know. I guess it is because we never loved him...or so they claim.

[grasswire]

100. but this is really creepy

seeking vengeance on behalf of a soon to be ex politician who they think was disrespected.

[Jamastiene]

113. I agree.

It's very creepy, but it is happening, from the looks of it.

[JustAnotherGen]

77. You make a really good point

Things will be remembered.

[grasswire]

101. there's another threat

creepy

[JustAnotherGen]

103. How? How is it a threat?

Or creepy?

I'm not supporting your guy or Hillary.

But the way you two groups go at each other at DU?

There's no way you guys will come together and support the opposition.

I'm gonna say - you might be one who refuses to vote if Hillary is the nominee? Maybe? If I'm wrong - let me know - but the foaming at the mouth crap from both sides of this fight is bananas!

As BainsBane said - BTFO - get back to me in June 2016 which is about the time my vote will NOT matter. I'm in NJ. I've got to live with everyone else's decisions here -


So I hope you choose well. And I hope if your guy loses - you get your rear end to the polls and vote for the winner in 2016. No sour grapes.

[bemildred]

17. Right, that's what it is, a Republican plot.

And almost all the Democrats in Congress were fooled, or something.

Edit: Y'all.

[bemildred]

41. I get annoyed when people try to talk down to me.

One wonders when these guys will figure it out.

[PowerToThePeople]

19. Bored with posting on the cave? n/t

[grasswire]

53. heh nt

[Fred Sanders]

20. "A bit schizophrenic" is just rhetoric, but a bit far. More like "a bit inconsistent", ergo Iran, with their trust.

[TheKentuckian]

65. What does non proliferation have to do with trade? This is the dumbest tact yet.

How is it beyond your reckoning that a person can support one set of aims and oppose goals in another completely distinct area? Personality and policies are not one and the same.

In what way does what you are arguing make any sense?

[cyberswede]

21. Oy veh.

[99Forever]

22. The tide has turned.

Neoliberalism took a major hit today.

Get used to it, it was the first of many.

[Jackpine Radical]

23. I'm "a bit schizophrenic" if I disagree with Obama on TPP?

Wow, who knew? Such a simple diagnostic procedure--cuts right through all that complicated testing & observation & stuff. Are you gonna insist on a co-authorship when I publish this in Schizophrenia Research?

Actually, your whole comment is about as imbecilic as they come--but of course I wouldn't diagnose imbecilism here for a couple of reasons. First, it isn't in the diagnostic nomenclature any more, and second, I'd probly get a hide for my efforts.

[neverforget]

30. He's right 100% of the time! Duh! One poster tonight even said that the Democrats in the Senate and

Tbaggers are made for each other.

[Jackpine Radical]

98. Rush must be mad at the Tea Party for not passing TPP or something.

I'm sure many in the Tea Party will be humiliated to be compared to us.

[steve2470]

24. oh geez, gmafb nt

[Person 2713]

26. Huh? You and big business disappointed ? Boo hoo

Yep This is opposed by unions, environmental and consumer groups but backed by businesses, which reacted with disappointment today .
Thank you senate dems for listening to your worried constiuents instead of business lobbies

[WestSideStory]

28. The Senate Democrats should have afforded the President a vote.

But I guess the lily white Caucus (Booker excluded) is too upset they don't get to be President.

[cali]

32. what a heaping pile of horse shit

[neverforget]

38. Yeah they should have vote with the "lily white Caucus" Republicans

[cali]

47. so is the NAACP racist too?

they oppose it too.

[dmr]

50. Not to cast aspersions on your asparagus, but

Lily white caucus?

Why would you say that? Why would you think they have POTUS envy?

Why would a Democrat demean a body of Democratic Senators?

By insulting them, you also insult the President.

[TheKentuckian]

66. This post and the thought process to get to it is weapons grade, hate mongering stupid

Give Obama whatever he wants no matter how much you disagree or how diesaterous the track record of such policies or be party to a metaphorical lynching.

Pretty hateful and poorly thought out bullshit you are spewing here.

Can you even articulate your support of the deal without invoking Obama?

[Jamastiene]

85. They did.

They gave him Tom Carper's vote. That is a vote.

[rurallib]

87. !

Obama don't get to vote in the senate.

[m-lekktor]

31. wow

[Raine1967]

33. oh, schizophrenic?

You really are not aware of how insensitive this is, right?

Please, proceed.

[Person 2713]

42. Maybe they meant -Schadenfreude- they got everything else wrong,so maybe they meant that instead

of Schizophrenic. That people took a some joy in seeing this fail in the senate......let's just hope they made a mistake and did not mean to use schizophrenic .

[bigwillq]

34. Well, I knew I was crazy. This thread confirms it.

Thank you, Dr. WestSideStory.

[m-lekktor]

36. and ,if you are against TPP, apparently RACIST as well!

[nadinbrzezinski]

56. Well that be a twoffer!

[DJ13]

37. A Republican plan to get Obama to do their bidding?

Even Spock couldnt follow that game.

[LondonReign2]

40. Any opposition to Obama's policies is racism

Got it. You had to make a new account for that old canard?

[bigwillq]

46. Well, don't you get it?

I'm racist!!!!111111111111111111111111111



:

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

48. Thanks Britney

Watch "Britney Spears - Trust our President - Fahrenheit 9/11" on YouTube

[CBGLuthier]

51. Your use of the word "schizophrenic" is inaccurate, bigoted, and insensitive.

You are also wrong to ever blindly trust a leader of any country to ALWAYS do the right thing.

[L0oniX]

54. Unrec

[MissDeeds]

57. Absolutely absurd

You do not serve the president well by making such a pathetic claim.

[Phlem]

58. and lay low..........OOPS!

JFC, nice fail.

[Baitball Blogger]

62. Don't make this about the man. This is about a trade agreement that no one has any

confidence in.

It kills me that it is Democratic presidents that are passing these pro-corporate agreements.

[bluesbassman]

64. Full control huh?

Well I guess PBO and the rest of the Democrats can just take their vacations early then.

Your best line though was that the R's don't care about the TPP and didn't care about NAFTA either. Comedy gold I tell ya. Hope you stick around, you should be an absolute hoot through the primaries!

[Tsiyu]

71. Bunch of hooey

The repubs want this bill SO badly. They didn't get what they wanted.

If Obama wants this TPP to fly, it needs to be transparent - we all need to know every detail.

We've been through this railroading of unread shit with the Patriot Act. Fool me once and all that.

Reveal what's in the flipping thing if it's such a great idea. What's so fucking hard about telling us what's in the goddamned thing?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

72. I see. Obama embraces the Republicans and the Democrats vote against them both.

Equals ...Today, the Senate Democrats gave full control of the federal government to the Republicans

[eridani]

73. If Republicans were in control today, why didn't they get what they wanted? n/t

[MaggieD]

75. Bingo

[cantbeserious]

78. I Will No Longer Settle For The Lesser Of Two Evils - Go Bernie Go

eom

[LWolf]

79. If I don't support

this president, I'm schizophrenic? That's ludicrous.

[Jamastiene]

80. I'll take my diagnosis from a qualified psychiatrist.

Not from some random person on the internet who disparages mentally ill people. Thanks for keeping mental illness the butt of jokes and adding to the stigma. In other words, thanks for nothing.

In your effort to spin the fact that Obama is hanging out with his Republican buddies and cutting Democrats out of the process, calling us stupid for wanting to know what is in the damn thing, and trying to tell us to STFU if we ask questions, you have managed to twist and contort your argument into not only an insult to people who really have schizophrenia, but into just another cliche of the 12 dimensional chess argument that never works out.

This is the pattern. Trust him until he gets it passed, you tell us, then trust him to keep the people in mind instead of only the monied interests, you tell us, then trust him "fix" all the shit he let corporations and/or his Republican buddies add...then the fix never comes and we'll be told we all wanted ponies and we never loved him, we are racists and should suck it up and tough it out and just deal with it. Meanwhile, America continues to go down the toilet because money runs our government, no matter who is president. We've seen this over and over and over again. This time will be no different.

[NaturalHigh]

82. BS. The TPP should have come to us written on toilet paper.

It's an extended middle finger to working Americans.

Whether you understand this or not, it's entirely possible to support the President on some issues and not support him on others without being "schizophrenic." Some of this blind loyalty crap has long been out of control.

[Alkene]

86. Since the bunny with a pancake on its head isn't available,

[Octafish]

90. ^^^ This should be an OP ^^^

Exploded Diper!

[ucrdem]

89. They're full of win when it comes to taking a popular Dem president down a notch.

Hooray, our brave populists are giving the GOP a run for its money in the no department.

[TheSarcastinator]

91. can't argue the substance of TPP, eh?

When ya got nothin' break out the old ad hominem and reducto ad absurdum, right?

[ucrdem]

92. I've been arguing the substance since January. Check my journal. nt

[stillwaiting]

96. You've been catapulting propaganda and utilizing fear tactics to try and persuade.

Substance?

[ucrdem]

97. Jan. 30: "The point of TPP is to boost US exports. That's why PBO is behind it."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026159076

That scares you?

[stillwaiting]

99. We disagree on the point of the TPP.

From my perspective and many others that is the propaganda (utilized time after time) that is used to push these agreements down our throats. That specific point has been rebutted very successfully many times around here so I'm not going to bother.

There are LOTS of issues involved with the TPP, and there are many valid reasons to oppose it. You've surely been exposed to those reasons so I'm not going to recount them here. There are also many respected economists that aren't supportive. The politicians and organizations that are against the TPP are many, and most of those politicians, organizations, and groups that are frothing at the mouth in support of the TPP are traditionally my political enemies.

I'm not going to try and persuade you to be against the TPP. That would be foolish.

If you have a large investment portfolio then I'm not surprised at your support for the TPP. The TPP will be exceptionally fantastic for the investor class. Unbelievably fantastic no doubt. You are simply arguing on behalf of something that will pay off well for you.

If you don't have a large investment portfolio or if you have a large investment portfolio but you care about the well-being of the middle, working, and poverty classes, then your support of the TPP befuddles me.

Sorry, we're not going to see eye-to-eye here.

[Alittleliberal]

106. No

The point of the TPP is to boost profit. That may happen due to an increase in exports. Don't get my wrong that's awesome, in a society where the elites gave a fuck about us. They don't so they will make continue to drain all of the fucking money out of the economy and into their offshore accounts. Without some of that wealth flowing back into the hands of the working class the economy will crash. That is a fact. It's an amazingly shortsighted race to destruction.

[Oilwellian]

93. Except...

We said no to Senate Republicans yesterday. It was they who were saying yes to Obama.

Oh, and war is peace.

[dawg]

95. If Republicans were given full control of the federal government ...

they would have passed the TPA.

[WilliamPitt]

102. Oh for fuck's sake

[Trajan]

104. I am a Democrat first ...

An Obama cheerleader second ...

I love this President, but I also want the best for our country ... Those Senate Republicans, standing next to Obama, do NOT seek the best interest of working families ...

Who is the traitor here?

[Orsino]

105. Incorrect.

Check again to see who favors the TPP and who opposed TPA.

[CanonRay]

108. Obama has been a great President

but he is dead wrong on TPP. He drank the Fraud Street Koolaide.

[Blue_In_AK]

110. The president is not always right.

[pampango]

111. Globalization is a wedge issue in the republican party, too. Their base hates the UN, the WTO,

the Law of the Sea Treaty, the recent UN Arms Trade Treaty and Disability Rights Treaty. After WWI republicans kept the US out of the League of Nations. After WWII they kept us from creating FDR's International Trade Organization.

republicans have traditionally been isolationists and their base really has not changed that much. About the only forms of "globalization" the republican base does believe in are bombing and invasions.

Today, the Senate Democrats gave full control of the federal government to the Republicans.

No. Senate Democrats are playing hardball with McConnell and the republican majority in order to get funding worker protections in the Trade Adjustment Assistance, the passage of the African Growth and Opportunity Act and a a customs enforcement bill which includes the currency manipulation provisions. republicans do not want any of these so Democrats are playing hardball. Good. (It is weird that republicans are resisting currency manipulation provisions since Mitt's biggest promise in 2012 was to "label China a currency manipulator" on his first day in the White House. Perhaps Mitt was not 'sincere' in his protestations. )

[nolabels]

112. Maybe you need to get out more.

Short of a couple months or two into Obama's first term, the corporate owned politicians made sure he was to be a lame duck the whole rest of the time. We really will never know what kind of President Mr Obama could or should have been since he has been hamstrung most of the time there.

The idea that big money rules day has already been adjudicated by five hacks who tell us they are part of a thing called the Supreme Court. Debating about the effects rather than the cause gets you no where

[Puddy]

114. Huh?