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[KMOD]

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[PowerToThePeople]

1. Hope so.

If they want us to see the text it is really simple, release the text.

[brooklynite]

2. How did it die?

This was on requiring an up-down no amendments vote. Nobody's voted on TPP yet.

[notadmblnd]

3. I thought it was the Senate that voted against it

something like 45 Dem against and 1 for? Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

[Nite Owl]

23. It was the Senate

but the numbers are much worse in the House.

[notadmblnd]

24. I see. Thanks

[brooklynite]

29. Not against the agreement; against the Trade Promotion Authority to negotiate the agreement

[1StrongBlackMan]

38. While do not know enough to support or oppose the TPP ...

I'm disappointed that Democrats have given republicans the opportunity to insert anti-abortion, anti-SSM, balanced budget stuff and amendments to cut SS, and Universe knows what else into what might be an otherwise good trade agreement ... forcing it to be scuttled.

But I guess for some ... that was the goal from the start, whatever was actually in the agreement.

[X_Digger]

42. What is this magical 'otherwise good trade agreement' of which you speak?

Like the 2011 South Korea one that DEEPENED our trade deficit? CAFTA? NAFTA?

[doxyluv13]

52. Not sure what your are talking about, 1SBM

The Obama administration negotiated TPP with the foreign nations. No one has had an opportunity to insert anything.

[1StrongBlackMan]

64. I'm talking about with Fast Track being voted down ...

the republican controlled congress can, in the process of "debating" the agreement can add any amendment to the agreement that they wish. With Fast Track, like (for example) a Union Contract, Congress would have had to read what was in the agreement, weigh the relative good versus the bad, then vote it up or down.

I use the Union contract as an example because it is the closest example that most Democrats would understand. Could you imagine what would happen if, after the negotiation committee did its job in negotiating a Union contract, the contract was then submitted to management actors and the union membership, who were then allowed to add amendments? ... a contract would never be reached.

But again, perhaps for many, that is the acceptable and desired result.

[doxyluv13]

65. Thanks for clarifying

nm

[TDale313]

8. Already a compromise in the works...

On the currency manipulation piece, which was the part Japan and others were worried about.

[TDale313]

22. I had read a possible deal...

Would be to add workers protections to the fast track, but put the currency manipulation piece into its own vote that likely wouldn't pass but would allow for a kind of protest vote. Not a satisfying solution to me, but that's what I read was in the works.

[Art_from_Ark]

60. Good. Let it die an ignominious death in Japan.

TPP would just be a zero-sum game in Japan anyway, in which little guys get sacrificed for big guys.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024089103

[Iliyah]

12. Thank you. Jeezus.

[DCBob]

4. Its not dead.

They are already working on a compromise.

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/7270500

[TDale313]

6. Not dead by a long shot, although I wish it were.

This was just on the Fast Track part. Yes, that'll have a big impact, but by no means is this battle over. Tptb have way too much invested in this.

[pipoman]

20. Yeah, fast track = extra constitutional authority

We should all be extremely skeptical of issues with "strong bipartisan support"...especially when they're secret...ffs....

[pipoman]

7. Was this the vote on "fast track"?

If so, that doesn't kill the deal...

[TDale313]

10. Yes, it was.

And no, it doesn't kill it.

[Iliyah]

14. They will compromise

plus Pres O knew in advance what the Dems were going to do, Senator Reid advised him.

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. It was a procedural vote, it is not dead

TPA is not dead.

McConnell can try again... after a lot of arm twisting... or he can let it die from lack of trying. But not making it though this procedural vote does it mean it is already dead.

(I watch way too much CSPAN, and City Council and Board of Supervisors, I admit, at times Sacramento too)

[nadinbrzezinski]

17. I am just pointing the procedure

and given the US Chamber, the insert major corporate body here, including the Petroleum Institute, GE, Nike, and Apple wanted this, I suspect the republicans did as well.

My view, it is bad for workers everywhere, so if he choses not to fight for it. that's fine with me.

But it is quite inaccurate to say that a procedural vote failure it is dead.

In the house, you would have a point, there is no cloture. Given who wants what I suspect there is a LLLLLOOOTTT of arm twisting going right at the moment.

here is a link with links to floor speeches of those I could find.

I recommend you go there, and find my quote of McConnell's and chiefly, give him the hit and read the full floor speech. He was pissed and it was not at the President today.

http://reportingsandiego.com/2015/05/12/fast-track-authority-blocked-in-senate/

[tritsofme]

19. Pro-trade Senate Democrats temporarily stood with Reid in a procedural battle

In the end they will stand with President Obama and give him the authority he needs to be a credible voice for America at the negotiating table.

[msongs]

21. credible? willing accomplice to international corporations is more likely nt

[pipoman]

25. Against the will of their constituents? Their very vocal

80%? No, I think fast track is dead until after 16 now.

[tritsofme]

27. The death of TPA has been greatly exaggerated.

This is the first, not the last vote the Senate will be taking on TPA. Even Reid is now signaling that a solution to the procedural dispute may not be far.

[pipoman]

34. Elimination of the extra constitutional fast track authority

Will slow the process...less people object to the idea of tpp than object to the seemingly (actually) contrary to the US American way of operating in the light of day and with checks and balances....

[tritsofme]

44. Fast track is in no way "extra constitutional," this is is incorrect.

Congress has the sole authority under the Constitution to set the rules for its own proceedings and the terms under which it will debate legislation. There is nothing "extra constitutional" about Congress agreeing by statute to consider trade deals under a set of rules that they have chosen.

[Elwood P Dowd]

30. You mean a credible voice at the operating table

as the corporate Washington lapdogs extract another organ from working class America.

[Elwood P Dowd]

26. It deserves to die

though the billionaires and millionaires latest money making scam and corporate power grab masquerading as so called "free trade" will keep coming back until the damn crooks get what they want.

Killing another one of these scams is like killing a tumor in your body, and you're worried about losing it?

[Elwood P Dowd]

31. You really want to read a thousand page novel these folks worship and recommend?

Mitch McConnell
Paul Ryan
Orrin Hatch
Rand Paul
Jeb Bush
Dick Cheney
George W. Bush
Scott Walker
John Boehner
David Koch
Charles Koch
Jamie Dimon
Monsanto
The Business Round table
Wall Street
Americans For Prosperity
Cato
The Heritage Foundation
Exxon Mobil
The Republican National Committee
Fox News
General Electric
Wal Mart
The Pete Peterson Foundation
Citigroup
The US Chamber Of Commerce
Bank Of America

[Iliyah]

32. Yes

[nadinbrzezinski]

36. Ah, that explains it

the republicans who hate this with a passion are

1.- Our Libertarian isolationist types (Rand Paul, many members of the Tea Party, who barely realize their reasons are actually solid, and sound a tad like Ross Perot)

2.- Populist (Mike Huckabee)

You almost need a score card to keep track of who is who in the zoo. These Republicans, a good 1\3 in the House, and a few in the Senate, though Rand Paul voted for Cloture... his father would not I suspect, tend to agree that TTP is really bad as many Progressives do, but the agreement is superficial. It is for very different reasons. The isolationists types would like to go to 1939 in some respects.

The business faction (which still dominates in the US Senate) wants this like a bad dream.... or a dream paved in donations from the usual suspects.

My husband and I joke that we need a program, know your players, KNOW YOUR PLAYERS, get some popcorn... you cannot tell the players without a program!!!

[nadinbrzezinski]

40. I know what he said

watch his votes from now until he either gets the nomination or drops out.

He is trying to impress both his natural base (why no), and the business types (why yes).

What has been leaked so far is pretty bad.

[Elwood P Dowd]

37. I guess you do hate it. It shows where your loyalities lie.

BTW, the public statements I've heard from Rand Paul were all pro TPP. Also, teabaggers will always be against ANYTHING Obama supports. Makes no difference what it is. If Obama came up with a cure for Cancer, they would be against that, so you can just throw them out of the argument.

[Elwood P Dowd]

43. With the repukes and corporate DINOs.

Every time one of these fake free trade deals comes along people like you pick up your pom-poms and start the cheerleading. When they eventually pass and go into effect the exact same thing happens every single time. Trade deficits increase, jobs are moved overseas, wages driven down, and the corporations and Wall Street crooks get more power and control. Have you not noticed the PTB has changed the names of these things from free trade agreements to partnership? Have you noticed they changed the name of Fast Track to Trade Promotion Authority? They did that because the American people were catching on to the old scams, so they needed feel good names to deceive the people.

[Elwood P Dowd]

46. Its insulting to true Democrats and Progressives that some of our own are in bed with

the repukes and corporate crooks on TPP.

As for TPA, if that passes then there is probably about a 90% chance that TPP will pass. That's the way it always works. The big money starts flowing then, promises are made, and arms are twisted.

[Elwood P Dowd]

48. Pointing out the obvious is insulting?

A minority of Democrats are on board with the repukes and corporate crooks supporting TPA. That is a fact.

[A Little Weird]

50. Why do you suppose it's classified?

If it's a good deal for the American people then the politicians should be proud to show it to us. They don't seem to have a problem showing it to corporate interests - maybe that means it's a good deal for them and not us.

[Elwood P Dowd]

56. You got it.

Once they figure out a way to get TPA passed, the blackmail, arm twisting, and cash flow will begin. Some meaningless, feel good legislation will be added, some unenforceable regulations will be added, and lots of Washington politicians will have a bigger campaign $tash for the next election cycle.

[Jesus Malverde]

35. Its not dead..

It'll be back.

[Agnosticsherbet]

51. From what I have read, today's vote was on Fast Track Authority for the Trans-Pacific Partnership

Agreement.

This was not a vote on the agreement since, from what I can find, it has not yet been submitted for Congressional approval.

Fast Track Authority shortens the time Congress has to discuss the treaty o 90 days, and only allows an up or down vote, no amendments.

[delrem]

53. Pretzel logic.

"Damn! We should've passed that massive trade agreement, because now we'll never know all the good stuff that was in it! And I guarantee you that it was GOOD STUFF!"

eta: don't despair, this was just fast-tracking authority that was voted down, not the TPP itself. And McConnell and Reid are promising another vote (like "Benghazi!" they'll keep trying until they get it. Don't fear on that score, this was just a momentary setback so third-way dems could cover their asses.)

[delrem]

55. You sincerely want to see it signed into law, first!

My lord, the pretzel logic I've been seeing from TPP supporters is beyond anything I've ever seen before.
How about: The TPP isn't secret, because it doesn't exist! It'll exist once it's passed into law, then it'll be (eventually) shown, and we can debate the approval process!

You guys make my head hurt.

[delrem]

58. It's your OP!!!!

"Looks like the Trade Agreement died a lot sooner than predicted.

and now we will never know exactly what was in the deal "

WOW!

[Lil Missy]

59. It's not dead. After a few tweaks it will pass. n/t

[Yorktown]

63. Yes. It's still very likely the TPP will pass. nt

[eridani]

61. The 99% living in countries that trade with us are just as opposed to TPP

Which had fuckall to do with trade in the first place. What kind of idiot do you have to be to think that making it easier for tobacco companies to sue countries who want health warnings will result in more people buying wheat and apples from, say WA State?

[djean111]

62. That would require critical thinking. What you are seeing is magical thinking of some sort,

and, as far as I can tell, entirely based on a personality and a "team spirit".