The staged performance and then the betrayal

[marym625]

Platitudes from cans.

Don't remember ever seeing such a depressed DU, twitter, Facebook, etc

The rank and file Democrat has lost their religion

Even many that believed in the TPP are disappointed in the obvious play the Democrats put on.

We are the party of the consummate actors. The ideologues without substance. The shameless and shameful.

This day will be remembered with heartache, anger, realization

But let it also be the day that makes us take back our party and kick every last one of the pieces of shit that played this game - out the fucking door

[daleanime]

1. If they think we will forget this....

after they shove it down our throats, which they unfortunately will, they are very mistaken.

And if this gets passed while Hillary still doing her balancing act on the fence top. I don't care if she does get the nomination, I will not vote for her. If she won't come out one way or the other before then, I fail to see why I should come out for her.

[marym625]

2. exactly!

The only person I have on ignore is due to his incessant posting about how this is not Hillary's fight. Fuck that noise! It's a god damned cowards way out

I am with you 100%

[billhicks76]

12. I Agree

The centrist(no better than moderate Republicans) are pathetic beyond words.

[marym625]

19. +1000

"No better than the moderate Republicans"

[WhiteTara]

77. Gosh is that you Ralph Nadir? nt

[marym625]

80. Yes, I am Nader pretending to be a middle aged white woman

And you know this because I am sick of the Democrats that don't give a shit about the average American. That care more about the oligarchs and corporations than they do about the middle class and poor

Sigh.

[rbnyc]

93. +1

[awoke_in_2003]

98. Is that you, Joe Lieberman? nt

[Jackpine Radical]

102. Lieberman? Nah.

I think it's another Joe. Manchin.

Or Joe Munchkin as he's known in some circles.

[marym625]

127. Good one!

You're in good form lately. Making me laugh all over the place

[marym625]

126. hee hee

[Scootaloo]

130. No, I'M Ralph Nader!

[marym625]

141. No, I am Ralph Nader!

Absolutely hilarious! Thanks!

[billhicks76]

203. No! I'm Ralph Nader!!!!!

[marym625]

204. No!

I can't believe I took the time to make this

[billhicks76]

202. Learn To Spell

Nadir on the othe hand is the level to which your psuedo intellectualism drops. And as you can see as a group we are getting sick of centrist moderates trying to tell us what to do and think. They are not the majority and their spineless capitulations to corporate monopolies, the military industrial complex, the drug war and other republican pet projects is pathetic and nauseating.

[hifiguy]

99. They ARE moderate republicans.

They are the moderate republicans who couldn't stand the religulously insane an longer and left the party. They brought their economics and money with them, however, and bought the party from the DLC, the Clintons, and the Turd Wayers.

ETA - I am well past the Popeye Point (I've had all I can stands and I CAN'T STANDS NO MORE!!) with these shitweasels in Democratic clothing.

[Jackpine Radical]

104. The Popeye Point--I love that.

Precise, concise.

[Jamastiene]

135. So, THAT is what it is called.

I've reached that point too, actually much sooner than this, and wondered if there was a name for it. The Popeye Point is perfect. Thank you.

[marym625]

144. Oh I am going to use that! The Popeye Point!

Love it

nice to see you!

[BeanMusical]

149. The Popeye Point sounds like a good band name.

[Unknown Beatle]

151. I prefer the Beale Spiel...

"I'M AS MAD AS HELL, AND I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE THIS ANYMORE!"

[marym625]

175. That's good too!

I didn't realize that was him.

[cui bono]

157. hehehehe... Popeye Point!

Awsome!

[Eleanors38]

217. Obama said if this were the 80s, he would be considered a Republican...

Considering who was in office then, I am not reassured.

[newfie11]

24. Add me to this list

I've freaking had it! It's all kabuki and I'm not buying it any more!

[JDPriestly]

27. I am with you.

This agreement was negotiated in part while Hillary was Secretary of State. She had to have given the green light with regard to the appointment of the negotiators. At least she did not reconstitute the team.

This and the XL pipeline are black marks on Hillary's record. That's her own record. And I am not mentioning Bill Clinton's record which is even far, far worse.

[marym625]

145. wouldn't it be nice if she actually said how she stands on the TPP?

But she is playing politics and is being a god damned coward. I didn't think I could like her any less than I already did. I was wrong.

[raouldukelives]

89. Indeed. nt

[840high]

118. ...^ that

[Dustlawyer]

150. The only difference is she did not have to take a stand

on the issue. That tells me she would do what Obama is doing if she was POTUS! PEOPLE, I KEEP TELLING YOU THAT MOST DEMOCRATIC POLITICIANS ARE BOUGHT OFF TOO!!! The Party is bought lock, stock and barrel!
We need publicly funded elections! We have to fight in a big way to get them! Voting for Hillary won't change a damn thing!
Politicians like Bernie Sanders don't grow on trees so make hat while the sun shines and vote for him! Get as many others educated and voting for him too. Our country and the very survival of our species depends upon us to overthrow the PTB by demanding an end to the Revolving Door, campaign contributions, and Super PACs!!!

[marym625]

176. +a bazillion

One of my first posts here was about public funding.

And you are correct, our very survival depends on it. Sounds dramatic but it is true

[woo me with science]

220. [phone]

[aspirant]

3. Today my anger is real

And I don't know if I'm able to choose the right words.

This farce had to be planned out, even before Wyden caved. Was this discussed with only a handful of deceitful senators in dirty secret backrooms or was it planned in full senate attendance in caucus and luncheon meetings?

If this was hatched in secret and/or caucus meetings, the time is now for a whistleblower to come forth with details.

Is this secret act, in our names anymore insulting than the TPP secrets?

[daredtowork]

4. I concur. nt

[marym625]

20. Same here. very real.

Absolutely had to have been a plan. I am not going to hold my breath waiting for someone to blow the whistle. No morals there

[sabrina 1]

5. Those who vote for this will be rewarded by the beneficiaries of this atrocious

stain on democracy. Let's send them on their way as soon as possible.

[marym625]

21. absolutely

[woo me with science]

219. [phone]

[F4lconF16]

6. The party is not going to change for you.

It is the embodiment of the word establishment: it is the oldest political party in the world, part of a two-party system of government in the world's most powerful nation. The elite are not just going to leave because you want them to.

The Democratic Party is a party with a history of "betraying" its supporters (though it rarely represented their interests in the first place). It gives some bones to the working class to keep them from revolting, and some extra to the middle class, and that's about it. It has been this way since its earliest years. It is exceptionally clear at the moment.

They will not listen to the people because the people have no money, no wealth, no capital--no power. It reflects almost none of the desires of the working class, and indeed, acts against their interests often. Voting is not going to change anything. Baltimore is a perfect example.

You want to change the party? Pressure it. Join activist groups, get radical. Fight the system by attacking it. Force them to change on your terms through protest, unions, and direct action. Make them hear you. Help others hear you and join with you. The Democratic Party and the entire establishment does not listen to votes. They listen to threats. Those threats need to be real and immediate, and you have to be willing to follow through. That is the only way to affect what limited change is possible under capitalism.

[aspirant]

7. Then let's start picketing their homes.

It only takes a determined handful. It was successful with FCC's Wheeler and I read they picked Wyden's home and condo.

[F4lconF16]

8. Exactly.

Let's do that. I'd be happy to meet up with people in Washington.

Direct action scares the hell out of the elite. Part of why it does here:

I’ll begin with the more general topic of class struggle over the use of outdoor space. This is a very consequential issue for workers and the poor. The outdoors is important to workers

— for work
— for leisure and entertainment
— for living space, if you don’t have a home
… and for politics.

First, about work. While successful merchants could control indoor spaces, those without so many means had to set themselves up as vendors on the street. The established merchants saw them as competitors and got the police to remove them.

Street vendors are also effective purveyors of stolen goods because they’re mobile and anonymous. It wasn’t just pickpockets and burglars who made use of street vendors this way. The servants and slaves of the middle class also stole from their masters and passed the goods on to the local vendors. (By the way, New York City had slavery until 1827.) The leakage of wealth out of the city’s comfortable homes is another reason that the middle class demanded action against street vendors.

The street was also simply where workers would spend their free time—because their homes were not comfortable. The street was a place where they could get friendship and free entertainment, and, depending on the place and time, they might engage in dissident religion or politics. British Marxist historian EP Thompson summed all this up when he wrote that 19th century English police were impartial, attempting to sweep off the streets with an equable hand street traders, beggars, prostitutes, street-entertainers, pickets, children playing football and freethinking and socialist speakers alike. The pretext very often was that a complaint of interruption of trade had been received from a shopkeeper.

On both sides of the Atlantic, most arrests were related to victimless crimes, or crimes against the public order. Another Marxist historian Sidney Harring noted: “The criminologist’s definition of ‘public order crimes’ comes perilously close to the historian’s description of ‘working-class leisure-time activity.’”

Outdoor life was—and is—especially important to working-class politics. Established politicians and corporate managers can meet indoors and make decisions that have big consequences because these people are in command of bureaucracies and workforces. But when working people meet and make decisions about how to change things, it usually doesn’t count for much unless they can gather some supporters out on the street, whether it’s for a strike or a demonstration. The street is the proving ground for much of working-class politics, and the ruling class is fully aware of that. That’s why they put the police on the street as a counter-force whenever the working class shows its strength.

http://socialistworker.org/blog/critical-reading/2014/12/09/main-role-police-protecting-ca

[jtuck004]

14. The party isn't gonna change. Period. At least not in your lifetime, or the next one.

A lotta good people gonna waste a lot of time trying to change this. Big waste of time.

They would be better off finding something else to do.

In the early 1900's a commission found that business was spending about 80 million dollars a year on traitors, murderers, private security, spies and other miscreants to fight labor. After business, the government, and the AF of L had nearly killed off the IWW, some members broke with the IWW and joined the AF of L, saying they were going to change the it "from the inside". They were told the AF of L were liars and cheaters (Book: Them and Us - James J. And James Higgins Matles of the UE, or Mother Jones Autobiography) and cannot be trusted, "it ain't gonna work". And it didn't, and they didn't change it, and here we are today with government and business conspiring against the people.

Again.

I don't see a war that enriches us to save us for a few decades this time, however. I think we have forgotten how we got here, and there seems to be real resistance to remembering. That's troubling.

[marym625]

154. Haven't forgotten

And much happened since. But the biggest thing is we have always been able to keep them in check enough to keep people working and keep the corporacy from taking over. It was Reagan busting the unions that was the beginning of the end. Though we had been on the path for a while

The love of money is the root of all evil. I believe that. It isn't money, it's the love of it. I don't believe in God or religion, but that saying is right on the mark

[jtuck004]

184. "The love of money is the root of all evil" < That explains a lot of our problems. n/t

[marym625]

191. Most people forget the "love" part of that quote

It's the most important part

[marym625]

22. I am an activist

Posting on a message board is nice but it is the least of what I will do. The least of I have done.

I have not been a leader in activism in a few years. I don't have the physical strength anymore. But I have never stopped being involved.

[F4lconF16]

82. I am sure you have.

Your posts don't say otherwise apologies if that came as an attack.

There's just this false assumption that we can "take back a party" whose interests are usually (not always) opposed to ours. If the Democratic Party wanted change, it wouldn't be so clear about opposing it. Too many people believe that Sanders is going to fix many of our problems, and if we don't recognize that change has to be sought not at the ballot box but on the streets, we are in for some serious disappointment.

[marym625]

83. agree

Though we do still need to vote. Hopefully, the gerrymandering that makes sure we can't win will be disallowed

The streets will be filled this summer. I really believe that

[Jackpine Radical]

105. Let's all start reading & implementing Gene Sharp.

He describes a whole lot of effective acts and strategies of nonviolent resistance.

The place where I personally draw the line is at engaging in violence.

[F4lconF16]

109. That's my line as well.

No riots for me, though you'll see me there with food, water, maalox, and a med kit. Though if I'm physically attacked, I don't know what I'd do.

Will look him up.

[marym625]

117. Let's do it

Honestly, this needs a protest the size of all the occupy movement protests combined. The Democratic National Convention should have more people than the 1968 convention

[zeemike]

129. Violence is not necessary and non productive.

And anyone suggesting it is not working for you.
Nonviolence and noncooperation with evil is the best and only way to win...Gandhi and MLK proved it.

[Jackpine Radical]

131. Absolutely.

For the dozenth time (at least), I cite the following:

Why Civil Resistance Works: The Strategic Logic of Nonviolent Conflict (Columbia Studies in Terrorism and Irregular Warfare) Paperback – December 11, 2012
by Erica Chenoweth (Author), Maria J. Stephan (Author)

For more than a century, from 1900 to 2006, campaigns of nonviolent resistance were more than twice as effective as their violent counterparts in achieving their stated goals. By attracting impressive support from citizens, whose activism takes the form of protests, boycotts, civil disobedience, and other forms of nonviolent noncooperation, these efforts help separate regimes from their main sources of power and produce remarkable results, even in Iran, Burma, the Philippines, and the Palestinian Territories.

Combining statistical analysis with case studies of specific countries and territories, Erica Chenoweth and Maria J. Stephan detail the factors enabling such campaigns to succeed and, sometimes, causing them to fail. They find that nonviolent resistance presents fewer obstacles to moral and physical involvement and commitment, and that higher levels of participation contribute to enhanced resilience, greater opportunities for tactical innovation and civic disruption (and therefore less incentive for a regime to maintain its status quo), and shifts in loyalty among opponents' erstwhile supporters, including members of the military establishment.

Chenoweth and Stephan conclude that successful nonviolent resistance ushers in more durable and internally peaceful democracies, which are less likely to regress into civil war. Presenting a rich, evidentiary argument, they originally and systematically compare violent and nonviolent outcomes in different historical periods and geographical contexts, debunking the myth that violence occurs because of structural and environmental factors and that it is necessary to achieve certain political goals. Instead, the authors discover, violent insurgency is rarely justifiable on strategic grounds.

http://www.amazon.com/Why-Civil-Resistance-Works-Nonviolent/dp/0231156839/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1431657244&sr=8-1&keywords=chenoweth+stephan

[zeemike]

134. And the first thing the PTB will do is send in the agent provocateur

To encourage and create violence...it happens all the time from Gandhi to Occupy...All successful movements had leaders that understood it and trained for it.

[Jackpine Radical]

142. Precisely.

In fact, I take some credit for developing one method used to neutralize infiltrators during the Madison demonstrations of 2011.

[zeemike]

171. How did you do that?

It would be interesting to hear.

[Jackpine Radical]

198. It wasn't much.

My initial idea was to follow disruptors around with signs that said "Disruptor." Wiser heads converted this into "Uninformed Citizen" signs, and they were used that way.

[marym625]

197. +a billion

[Jamastiene]

137. Exactly.

There is power in nonviolence. Violence solves nothing. With violence, one side just exerts dominance on the other. That never ends well. With nonviolence, people are forced to see themselves and see what they are doing to those they are oppressing. Nonviolent movements grow and if sustained long enough can accomplish positive change, whereas violent movements self destruct and accomplish nothing, really.

[2banon]

148. Absolutely Spot On..

[marym625]

177. I do and I am and I have

I don't know why people assume I just sit on a messages board

[F4lconF16]

179. It's the outside-the-party activism that is critical.

It wasn't so much that I assumed you were not an activist (if anything, my money would have been on the opposite) as that your OP reflected a common idea that I disagree with.

Your post referenced "taking back our party" as if it were possible to do so. That party has never been and never will be our party, one that represents the working class. The party will not respond to our work inside it, as is clear. "Taking back our party" means in-party-activism the majority of the time, and I don't believe that will be effective. Thus my response: not necessarily directed at you, but in people who trust in the ability to effect change within the system.

[marym625]

187. Well, since I am not an elected official

Only way I can do it is from the outside

Frankly, we need to move away from a two party system. But in doing so, we have to support Bernie Sanders in the 2016 election. Not sure exactly how to do that

I don't agree that the democratic party has never been for the working class. Especially at the local level

[marym625]

200. I'm sorry

I didn't realize I was replying to you again on the same post. I was just reading all the posts on the thread and I didn't check who wrote it.

Sorry about that

[AtomicKitten]

9. It's a sad day when you realize disappointment is as good as it gets.

[marym625]

23. Isn't though. And that's exactly what we get. for decades now

At least for years they were just cowards. Now they're lying, shady, cowards pretending to have a backbone

[sheshe2]

10. Question?

But let it also be the day that makes us take back our party and kick every last one of the pieces of shit that played this game - out the fucking door

Who are the pieces of shit that you wish to kick out the door.

Please name them.

And religion???? What does religion have to do with it? Some of us are non believers or atheists.

The rank and file Democrat has lost their religion

[MannyGoldstein]

17. So that when we turn our backs on them,

[marym625]

18. my favorite Pink Floyd song from my favorite Pink Floyd album

[MannyGoldstein]

26. normally, it's too depressing for me to listen to

but today, it's all that fits.

[marym625]

39. and it fits perfectly

[Ed Suspicious]

169. Mine as well. Good taste you have. :)

[marym625]

173. You too!

Thanks!

[djean111]

28. 'Religion" is not used as a deity construct, it is being used as a belief in what used to be the

principles of the Democratic Party. Like when someone says golf is their religion. Nothing to do with church.

Oh, and for my list - easy - anyone who supports and/or votes for the TPP. That will be an easy list to find online.
Of course, the only politicians I can actually not vote for would be Floridian or anyone running for President, either in a primary or the general election. Same for everyone else. So a list here will not be needed, a simple look at the government web pages that detail who voted, how they voted, and what they voted for will be sufficient! people can just see how their own state politicians voted.

[marym625]

42. Great answer

Thank you. Better than mine. I was too blown away by the second question to respond well

[DisgustipatedinCA]

30. This is too important to play dimwitted "let's get a post locked" games.

But I guess it's instructional to see the level at which you approach the issue.

[marym625]

40. Oh is that what that is?

I truly took a long time to reply because I was flabbergasted. But what you say makes perfect sense.

Was I alerted on?

Thank you for your insight. Truly appreciate it

[sheshe2]

115. I asked a question.

Is that no longer allowed on DU? First, I do not alert on Ops. Nor on posters. I only once alerted an a jury member who was rude and crude, while they hid anonymously. They are suppose to be impartial, Lol~

PS, you just called me dimwitted. That was rude and no I won't alert on you either. Stay classy~

[marym625]

192. I'm glad they were wrong about the reason. n/t

[marym625]

37. Wyden and his protrade democrats

The 15 or so that stood against a bill that will ultimately hurt our country and especially the average American, only to give in a day later.

The entire legislative exercise is a charade, in which a faction of Senate Democrats pretends to be supporting the interests of workers by espousing a chauvinist and protectionist policy, while the Obama White House and the Senate Republicans pretend to be supporting the interests of workers by advocating “free trade.”

In a speech to the Roosevelt Institute just before Tuesday’s vote, Senator Warren declared, “We can’t keep pushing through trade deals that benefit multinational companies at the expense of workers.” She added, with trademark demagogy, “Government cannot continue to be the captive of the rich and powerful. Working people cannot be forced to give up more and more as they get squeezed harder and harder.”

http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2015/05/14/trad-m14.html

On your second question, that's not literal.

[Autumn]

66. I'm just glad Obama wasn't on that list

That would have been a shit storm of epic biblical proportions and remembered forever and a day .

[marym625]

68. lol

Well he can't run again. At least not for President. I doubt he is going to run against Tammy Duckworth in the Senate primary in Illinois. But hey! Ya never know!

You crack me up!

[cui bono]

113. Do we know who those 15 are? I haven't found the vote record yet.

Just googling, not sure where to look.

[marym625]

116. Yes

There are 13

Thirteen Democrats have voted in favor of moving to the bill so far: Sen. Michael Bennet (Colo.), Maria Cantwell (Wash.), Tom Carper (Del.), Chris Coons (Del.), Dianne Feinstein (Calif.), Heidi Heitkamp (N.D.), Tim Kaine (Va.), Claire McCaskill (Mo.), Patty Murray (Wash.), Bill Nelson (Fla.), Jeanne Shaheem (N.H.), Mark Warner (Va.) and Ron Wyden (Ore.)

http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/senate/242093-senate-votes-to-start-trade-debate

[cui bono]

156. Thank you.

Now I can provide some info in the ridiculous "I really want to know if Sanders and Warren were pulling a stunt and shouldn't we call them typical politicians who pull stunts" OP.

[marym625]

159. What? !

Seriously? Can you link me, please?

[cui bono]

166. Sure...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6671185

[marym625]

167. Thank you!

[floriduck]

168. That article really posses me off.

Because I believe it. I am almost positive Barack Obama was orchestrating an act the first night at the White to allow DINO's to get cover for a fraudulent, bogus act the day before. If a goddamned trade deal has to be allow the president to by-pass Congress, then it's likely it's a piss poor fucking deal!! And it explains why Mr. Obama promised and never delivered on standing up for labor unions.

[marym625]

172. yep

And why he campaigned saying that he supported the Occupy Wall Street movement only to be elected and piss on them.

[cui bono]

114. Losing one's religion is just a saying, it has nothing to do with organized religion/deities.

The rock band R.E.M.'s song "Losing My Religion" is loosely based on this phrase. In an interview with Michael Stipe, he states that: "... In the South, in Georgia, where we live, if you say that you're 'Losing your religion' basically means that you're at the end of your rope, or that you've had it, you're fed up"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Losing_religion

[marym625]

201. LOVE this song!

Thanks for posting!

[Geronimoe]

11. Did anyone really expect a different outcome?

This is the party that handcuffed doctors and nurses because they wanted to be heard on the public option for healthcare. Not a single high level banksters has been indicted. Before Obama was even sworn into office, he agreed with the bailout and choose Bernanke, Summers, and Geithner. This is the party that said give us both the Senate and the House and we will end the funding of Bush wars. They didn't even try.

As George Carlin said, "They don't give a fu*k about you".

Call all you want but, unless you are funneling their superpacs bribe money (free speech), they just don't give a fu*k about you.

[marym625]

48. Yes, you are right

But I am not ready to give up.

By the way, don't forget Senator Obama's FISA vote

Sanders running has given me some hope. Until that part is over, I will continue to fight. Hopefully, it won't be over until January 20, 2025.

[bob4460]

13. This Needs to start a Revolution

ANYONE but the Incumbent in the primaries!!!!!

[marym625]

49. There are a few that I believe are altruistic

But not many. And those that are not, must go

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

15. I've been afk a bit, what have I missed, what is this in reference to?

Been out gardening and offline much of the last couple of days, obviously I missed something big.

[Hiraeth]

25. I think we both missed something ... what happened?

[randome]

29. In a nutshell...

...Democrats voted to block 'fast-track' authority because of amendments the GOP was trying to insert. The usual contingent on DU jumped the gun and celebrated this as the Second Coming Of Liberalism without bothering to look at the actual issues. And now, with the GOP's amendments withdrawn, it looks like 'fast-track' will happen.

Just another day in the manic-depressive population that is DU.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Treat your body like a machine. Your mind like a castle.[/center][/font][hr]

[Hiraeth]

32. Thank you. I did not know that the GOP had withdrawn amendments.

Need coffee.

[randome]

36. Actually, I'm guessing at that part because the information I've seen is sketchy.

It would have been nice if marym625 included a summary. Calling marym625!!!!\
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Treat your body like a machine. Your mind like a castle.[/center][/font][hr]

[yallerdawg]

41. Well, not GOP amendments...

Games within games.

It was 3 additional stand-alone bills the Senate Democrats were pushing to make TPA more palatable for Democrats to support.

[randome]

43. That's it. I knew I had it wrong but I wasn't able to find the posts for it. Thanks.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Treat your body like a machine. Your mind like a castle.[/center][/font][hr]

[Hiraeth]

45. And they have been withdrawn so fast track is back? Is there a link?

[marym625]

53. Wrong. But thanks for playing

The Democrats said that they wouldn't pass it without certain guarantees on amendments allowed to the TPA. Most importantly, currency manipulation safeguards. Then, just the next day, agreed to allow passage of the TPA without amendments but that the other items would have a stand alone vote. The currency manipulation safeguards doesn't have a chance to clear the Senate and the House.

You are wrong that we didn't know the issues. You are right that we shouldn't have trusted the Democrats that gave us false hope. That lied about what they were standing for.

Senate Democrats on Wednesday relented in their opposition to the consideration of legislation expediting trade agreements, just 24 hours after their vote blocking the bill put a temporary halt on President Obama’s trade agenda.

In exchange for allowing Trade Promotion Authority to move forward, Democrats will get to vote Thursday on bills cracking down on Chinese currency manipulation and giving preferential treatment to imports from African countries.  Majority Leader Mitch McConnell announced the deal on the Senate floor on Wednesday. Trade Promotion Authority allows the president to negotiate agreements that Congress must vote on without amendment. To secure Democratic votes, McConnell will combine that bill with a separate measure providing aid to workers displaced by foreign trade. Senate Democrats on Tuesday had demanded that McConnell package all four bills together, but he refused on the grounds that the currency proposal would have sunk the underlying trade legislation in the House. Now House Republicans can choose to ignore the currency and Africa measures even if they clear the Senate.

[JDPriestly]

31. Fastrak vote?

[Hiraeth]

35. It appears so ... is there a link ?

[marym625]

54. see reply 51

[marym625]

52. see reply 51

[Nay]

34. A lot of the Dems who voted against the TPP fast tracking reversed their votes, so now

fast tracking is approved.

[yallerdawg]

44. Wrong, "fast track" has been rejected.

It only has a path to being reconsidered.

[Hiraeth]

46. Is there a link anywhere? Thanks

[marym625]

50. Give me a minute

I will get you a few

[yallerdawg]

56. The Senate is debating and considering...

2 of the Democratic bills the Democrats wanted on the floor prior to reconsidering TPA.

This is on C-SPAN 2 right now.

[marym625]

62. Thanks. turning it on

[marym625]

51. Here's some background

By the way, since Tuesday, many of the top posts are about this so you can get a bunch more information from those. But here's a basic outline

Tuesday

Moreover, Senate Democrats — including the handful who have supported Obama’s trade push — said they were not inclined to move forward with debate unless Republican leaders provided assurances that related pieces of legislation would move in tandem.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/democrats-threaten-to-stall-trade-legislation-in-the-senate/2015/05/12/08f71d66-f8c0-11e4-9ef4-1bb7ce3b3fb7_story.html

Senate Democrats demanded that McConnell combine the fast-track bill with three other pieces of trade legislation, including a customs bill that would address currency manipulation.

Tuesday’s opposition included Senate Finance Committee ranking member Ron Wyden (Ore.) and other Democrats who back the fast-track bill.

“The group is concerned about the lack of a commitment to trade enforcement, which is specifically the customs bill,” Wyden told reporters in explaining his opposition.

Then, yesterday

One day after Senate Democrats blocked the "fast-track" trade authority bill that has been championed by both President Obama and Republicans, Majority Leader Mitch McConnell says an agreement has been reached to move forward.

The solution calls for separate votes on bills that Democrats had wanted to move as a single package on the floor, according to NPR's Ailsa Chang. Ailsa says the Senate will vote on a customs enforcement bill that includes Sen. Charles Schumer's safeguards aimed at reducing currency manipulation.

The customs bill "will get a vote tomorrow at 10:30 a.m.," Ailsa reports, along with "a vote on a bill giving trade preference to sub-Saharan African countries."

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2015/05/13/406485546/senate-reaches-deal-to-vote-on-fast-track-trade-bill-thursday

Senate Democrats on Wednesday relented in their opposition to the consideration of legislation expediting trade agreements, just 24 hours after their vote blocking the bill put a temporary halt on President Obama’s trade agenda.

In exchange for allowing Trade Promotion Authority to move forward, Democrats will get to vote Thursday on bills cracking down on Chinese currency manipulation and giving preferential treatment to imports from African countries.  Majority Leader Mitch McConnell announced the deal on the Senate floor on Wednesday. Trade Promotion Authority allows the president to negotiate agreements that Congress must vote on without amendment. To secure Democratic votes, McConnell will combine that bill with a separate measure providing aid to workers displaced by foreign trade. Senate Democrats on Tuesday had demanded that McConnell package all four bills together, but he refused on the grounds that the currency proposal would have sunk the underlying trade legislation in the House. Now House Republicans can choose to ignore the currency and Africa measures even if they clear the Senate.

So they pretended to give a shit then gave in with the promise of nothing. The currency manipulation will go forward in the TPP because the stand alone bill will not pass

[yallerdawg]

76. Thank you for clarifying what is actually going on.

The facts are of supreme importance!

That steady stream of simplistic one-note rhetoric is not nearly as interesting as the realpolitik.

Which wing of the Democratic Party will triumph? Where is the power today? What will be the political consequences?

That is what I find most interesting.

My opinion only matters to me.

[marym625]

79. No, I appreciate your opinion

But the power is with the money and the money is with most of Congress, regardless of party. Sadly

[840high]

120. Thank you.

[marym625]

125. You, 840high, are welcome

[SMC22307]

161. Let's hope Japan and Malaysia are "scared off."

It's late and I've only skimmed this NYT piece, but the currency manipulation action seems to lie with Stabenow and Portman:

Next week, senators will try to put new demands on those final negotiations. Senators Debbie Stabenow, Democrat of Michigan, and Rob Portman, Republican of Ohio, still want American negotiators to be required to include a chapter in the trade pact forbidding the intentional deflation of a country’s currency to make its exports cheaper and United States exports more expensive.

....

The Senate voted 78-20 on a broad trade enforcement bill that included a crackdown on countries that manipulate their currency. The currency provision would require the Commerce Department to investigate claims by American companies that competitor nations are manipulating their currency to promote their own industries. And if manipulation is found, the government would have to impose tariffs to raise the cost of imports to compensate for the currency price imbalance.

....

Even supporters said that vote was intended more to allow lawmakers to express their frustration on the currency issue. The real showdown will be over the Portman-Stabenow amendment attached to the trade promotion authority itself. If that reached Mr. Obama’s desk, supporters say, the president would have to sign it.

....

The trade enforcement legislation includes the creation of an interagency trade enforcement center and a system to respond faster to unfair trade practices, like the dumping of exports at prices below the cost of production. Another provision would require the Customs and Border Protection agency to expeditiously investigate allegations of customs duty evasion. Still another would close a 75-year-old loophole that allows the importation of goods produced with child labor if a company cannot find those goods elsewhere.

....

The Obama administration is walking a tightrope. Congress could give Mr. Obama the authority he needs to conclude a Pacific trade agreement that he sees as a central element to enhance the administration’s strategic role in Asia. But officials say that the demands imposed by Congress could scare off key partners such as Japan and Malaysia just as the deal comes into reach.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/15/business/senate-vote-currency-manipulation-fast-track-trade.html?_r=0

[marym625]

164. I thought that the deal reached

Will not allow any amendment to the TPP. That going forward with the TPA means that the TPP will be a straight up and down with no changes or amendment

[SMC22307]

170. The Portman-Stabenow amendment is attached to the TPA, not the TPP.

The real showdown will be over the Portman-Stabenow amendment attached to the trade promotion authority itself. If that reached Mr. Obama’s desk, supporters say, the president would have to sign it.

....

The House speaker, who has long been at odds with Mr. Obama, looks as of he intends to be a bulwark for the White House on this issue. “We’ve had this discussion about currency between countries and continents for the 25 years that I’ve been here, and to think that Congress can legislate what currency valuations are between countries is almost laughable,” Mr. Boehner said Thursday.

Democrats and Republicans in both congressional chambers disagree. Ms. Stabenow took to the Senate floor to argue that Japan’s weak yen is effectively raising the price of American automobiles there. “Currency manipulation is the most significant 21st-century trade barrier that American businesses and workers face today, and it is the least enforced against,” she said.

Ms. Pelosi expressed her own frustration with the White House. “The administration has been pretty clear that they don’t want this in the bill,” she said. “We keep saying, ‘Well, what other suggestions do you have?’” “There is a general belief,” she added, “that currency manipulation has been responsible for the loss of many jobs in this country.”

Such talk has administration officials worried and playing defense. Treasury Secretary Jacob J. Lew has said Japan has refrained in recent years from the kind of blatant currency manipulation it practiced in the past. And China, which has closely managed its own currency, has let the renminbi rise against the dollar.

....

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/15/business/senate-vote-currency-manipulation-fast-track-trade.html?_r=0

It is REALLY challenging trying to keep up with all of this!

[marym625]

174. ok. I am confused

I thought it was taken out. I thought McConnell took all amendment off the TPA and this amendment now has a stand alone vote

[SMC22307]

178. It was taken out, they did vote, and it passed 78-20. HOWEVER...

Stabenow and Portman are pushing their amendment to the TPA for a vote next week.

Even supporters said that vote was intended more to allow lawmakers to express their frustration on the currency issue. The real showdown will be over the Portman-Stabenow amendment attached to the trade promotion authority itself. If that reached Mr. Obama’s desk, supporters say, the president would have to sign it.

“That currency bill is going nowhere,” said Senator Lindsey Graham, Republican of South Carolina. “Portman’s the real deal. That’s firing with real bullets.”

The Africa piece passed today 97-1. Not sure where trade adjustment assistance (for those poor suckers who lose their jobs thanks to this shitty trade deal) stands.

Maybe I'm confused, too!

[marym625]

186. and, if I understand it correctly

Because the amendments are now separate bills, they basically don't have any power over the TPP.

I appreciate all your information. I am still confused on what is where. I am going to have to do some more reading on this.

Leave it to the government to make everything as complicated and confusing as possible

[SMC22307]

205. To make things even more interesting... food fight from Japan!

Food Fear Lands Japan in Court Over U.S. Trade Deal Talks

1:49 AM EDT
May 15, 2015

A former Japanese agriculture minister is suing the government over a U.S.-led Pacific trade agreement supported by Prime Minister Shinzo Abe, claiming it threatens Japan’s food security and farm industry.

Masahiko Yamada, 73, a lawyer and minister in 2010 in the then Democratic Party of Japan government, filed the lawsuit at Tokyo District Court on Friday on behalf of more than 1,000 plaintiffs, seeking to prevent Japan from joining the Trans-Pacific Partnership, he said by phone.

The litigation is another twist in efforts by Japan and the U.S., the top economies among TPP members, to expedite talks on the agreement covering about 40 percent of the world’s commerce. The accord would deepen Japan’s dependence on farm imports and threaten its food security, said Yamada. The nation, which relies on imports for about 60 percent of its food, has cut its self-sufficiency target as the government expands trade deals.

“This is unconstitutional,” said Yamada, who abandoned his party in 2012 over then-Prime Minister Yoshihiko Noda’s push for the TPP. “We will make maximum efforts to stop it. We want to spread legal actions nationwide.” He said he will organize an anti-TPP rally on May 26 in Tokyo.

....

More: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-05-15/ex-minister-turns-to-japanese-courts-to-halt-u-s-trade-talks

[woo me with science]

16. K&R Grinning, morally bankrupt con men

destroying democracy and millions of lives.

It's hard to fathom the lack of humanity, the utter lack of moral center, of these criminals and those who shill for them.

Enough is enough.

[marym625]

55. +a billion

Just so beyond disgusting

[CrispyQ]

85. This:

It's hard to fathom the lack of humanity, the utter lack of moral center, of these criminals and those who shill for them.

And their hypocrisy, too, since many of them claim the moral high ground.

[think]

33. Agree. Protecting human rights as well as corporate rights is not anti free trade.

It's shameful that some are willing to ignore this fact....

[marym625]

57. I have to admit, I'm a little bit confused

Protecting corporate rights? I really don't know what you mean. They are protecting corporations and giving them unbelievable power. Human rights, not so much

[think]

73. Sorry I misread your post and was speaking to something else.

My apologies.

I certainly didn't mean to come across as supporting more rights for corporations.

[marym625]

74. absolutely no reason to apologize

I appreciate your clarification. I completely agree. Thank you

[truebluegreen]

38. Kabuki theater. We were warned. nt

[marym625]

58. Great analogy. kabuki theater.

[Art_from_Ark]

100. I've seen that play before

Translation (very loose): Here we see Our Hero on the right taking a TPP stand against Warren, Sanders and Brown on the left, while the Republicans in the background cheer Our Hero on.

[marym625]

107. LOL!

Good one!

[sendero]

47. Well if it wakes folks up....

.... to get over the absurd notion that Democrats are any better than anyone else when it comes to what the money men want, then maybe some good can come of it.

[marym625]

59. Hopefully, you are right

But I am not going to hold my breath. I think we need to do a great deal of shaking people out of a deep sleep

[sendero]

75. I think the shit economy....

.... made worse by corporate giveaways like the TPP, will do the job. but it is going to take a few more years.

[marym625]

78. and by then, it will be too late

I believe this deal will be the last straw.

[jeff47]

84. You forget, we have to keep voting for these Democratic shitbags

or we will get Republicans! Republicans I tell you! Sign your loyalty pledge today!!

[marym625]

94. Oh man

You made a song pop in my head then it disappeared.

[Jesus Malverde]

60. nice op I think it captured the mood perfectly..nt

[marym625]

63. Thank you

Not a great mood to capture, sadly

[marmar]

61. I forget who said it, but the quote goes like this:

"We have a center-right party and a crazy party."

[marym625]

64. Perfect quote

Truth

[demwing]

88. That's a Bill Maher quote:

[marym625]

92. Thanks!

Oh man! This is perfect for this op. Love the religion part. Thanks

[MohRokTah]

65. .

[marym625]

67. I don't know what that means

But I assume you don't like my OP. Can you elaborate, please?

[MohRokTah]

69. It means...

[marym625]

70. alrighty then

Thanks for the clarification

[99Forever]

71. May the backstabbing bastards rot in Hell.

I am done.

[marym625]

72. If I believed in hell, I would be with you damning them to it.

Please don't be done. We need you!

[840high]

121. +100

[JEB]

81. How stupid do they tthink we are?

Rhetorical question. Please do not answer.

[Doctor_J]

86. I'm waiting for a single BOG er to wake the hell up and admit what this president has done

to the party and the nation. Disaster

[marym625]

87. It'll never happen

Which just tells you how blind people can become from hero worship

[woo me with science]

96. PROPAGANDA.

DU is awash in propaganda and message control.

The influx of corporate propaganda-spouting posters is blatant and unnatural.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3189367

The goal of the propaganda assaults across the internet is not to convince anyone of anything.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023359801

The government figured out sockpuppet management but not "persona management."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023358242

The Gentleman's Guide To Forum Spies (spooks, feds, etc.)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4159454

Seventeen techniques for truth suppression.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4249741

Just do some Googling on astroturfing - big organizations have some sophisticated tools.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=1208351

Manipulative, diversionary, interactive propaganda to steer and disrupt public political discussion is now standard MO of our political machines. We live awash in it. Deceit and manipulation have replaced representation and ordinary civic discourse as corporate money and power have corrupted our political machines.

[sheshe2]

112. Lol~

>

[840high]

122. They won't -

[Maedhros]

90. What are you all complaining about?

This is exactly what we should expect from our elected representatives. They know that they can screw us as hard and as often as they wish, because come election time all they need to do is whisper "Republicans! and the rank-and-file will trudge back to the polls and elect them again...and again...and again.

If there are no consequences for betrayal, then why would they think twice about selling us down the river?

[marym625]

91. excellent point

Frankly, I didn't vote for SMB&D.

[woo me with science]

218. [phone]

[bvar22]

95. The Democrats are willing to bravely support any progressive bill

......as long as there's no chance it can pass.

This is what the Democratic Party does; it’s who they are. They’re willing to feign support for anything their voters want just as long as there’s no chance that they can pass it. They won control of Congress in the 2006 midterm elections by pretending they wanted to compel an end to the Iraq War and Bush surveillance and interrogation abuses because they knew they would not actually do so; and indeed, once they were given the majority, the Democratic-controlled Congress continued to fund the war without conditions, to legalize Bush’s eavesdropping program, and to do nothing to stop Bush’s habeas and interrogation abuses

http://www.salon.com/2010/02/23/democrats_34/

[marym625]

97. That's about it

Just disgusting

[hifiguy]

101. This Jefferson Airplane classic makes me feel a tiny bit better

and the message is as clear today as it was at Woodstock

[marym625]

108. That used to be my signature line

I just hope we're still around for it. Because if we're not, I hate to think how bad things will be by the time it starts

[peacebird]

103. I'm not depressed, I am Pissed Off!

[marym625]

110. After today

I am furious

[emsimon33]

106. I agree--

if they walk like Republicans and talk like Republicans, then they are Republicans. Let the Democratic masks that they wear fall off and let them run like the "pieces of shit" Republicans that they really are. I will never vote for any of them again and I will actively work against their being re-elected.

I hope that some real Democrats run against them in the primaries (and win)--the 13 weasels.

I had even written Feinstein, Warner, and Kaine thanking them for their "no" votes. I feel like a fool.

[marym625]

111. You are not the fool

We stupidly believed they finally were standing for something.

Now we know they can't ever be trusted

[raindaddy]

119. The rank and file Democrat has lost their religion

It's clear that this party has turned it's back on progressives, labor and the environment!
And the party's front running candidate couldn't muster up an opinion on the largest trade agreement in history. Typical manipulative, gutless, cynical politics.. And this will be remembered!

[marym625]

123. I hope the cowardice of Hillary Clinton will be recognized and remembered

Absolutely no excuse. And shows she is no leader

It's seems to be worse than business as usual. At least before they were outright cowards. Now they're playing fucking games to fake backbone

They can all go to hell.

[840high]

124. Amen.

[Ford_Prefect]

128. One more case of Triangulated Bait and Switch.

[marym625]

136. Someone just posted about the democratic party and triangulation

Going to read it after I respond to a couple people. Just in case that was you

[Jamastiene]

132. Excellent unity post.

Not being sarcastic. This is the kind of hope we need, standing together to take back the party from those who have usurped it and turned it into a really bad B-grade horror movie.

[marym625]

138. Thank you

You think about it, and since Reagan, there has been very little to try to move the party back as it was slowly taken over. Not until the occupy movement.

They made a big mistake when they played this game. They are so transparent and folding without getting what they said they were demanding, just showed themselves to be the phoneys that they are

[DonCoquixote]

133. from your lips

to the people's ears. You know, if this house of cards falls apart during a Hillary admin, the GOP will just blame us, but no, we will be told told to listen more to Billy BigDawg.

[marym625]

139. Billy BigDawg. ha!

Good one!

And she will be able to play the blame game because she's too much of a coward to say anything about the TPP now

But we don't have to worry about that. It will be a Sanders Administration and he will fix it. At least as much as he is able

[Elwood P Dowd]

140. They insult the very people who put them in office. Why do they even bother to hide this

behind closed doors? Why don't they just go ahead and let C-SPAN broadcast it.

[marym625]

143. Good question!

I wish that they would. There shouldn't be closed door shenanigans anyway. They're working for us. Imagine being able to do that at work and your boss has no idea what is going on

[Maedhros]

146. The illusion has dropped.

“The illusion of freedom will continue as long as it's profitable to continue the illusion. At the point where the illusion becomes too expensive to maintain, they will just take down the scenery, they will pull back the curtains, they will move the tables and chairs out of the way and you will see the brick wall at the back of the theater.”

- Frank Zappa

Take a look at the brick wall, folks.

[marym625]

147. +1000

Is that a song? I know this quote but I don't know why I know it

It is perfect

[Art_from_Ark]

160. That quote has been posted on DU off and on

since at least 2004:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x648037

[marym625]

163. Thanks

Wow, an old Sanders post. Cool

But is it from one of his songs?

[Art_from_Ark]

181. I can't find any concrete attribution of that quote

Only that it's supposed to date from 1977.

[marym625]

189. Thank you for looking

I really appreciate it!

[Maedhros]

162. All we have left are our imaginary guitar solos. [n/t]

[marym625]

165. I like it

What's it from?

[Maedhros]

180. The quote is from a documentary.

Last edited Fri May 15, 2015, 02:58 AM - Edit history (1)

Here's a link:

The bit about imaginary guitar solos is from Joes Garage Act III.

ON EDIT: Apparently, the quote is NOT from the documentary. I misremembered - I hadn't seen it since it was aired in 1993. So, I don't know the provenance of the quote.

[marym625]

190. Thank you

I really appreciate that you took the time to look and post this

Still a cool post.

Wherever it came from, I like it

[RadiationTherapy]

208. At the end of "Joe's Garage," Joe - who only ever wanted to play guitar - has been stripped of

everything. He is reduced to playing imaginary guitar solos and topping cupcakes with little green rosettas.

[marym625]

209. Thank you

How do I not know this little rock opera? Maybe I'm just old and forgot since I love Zappa.


Thanks for this

[RadiationTherapy]

210. Here is the greatest example of the point and one of Frank's most exquisite works.

'Watermelon in Easter Hay'

I think it really captures the longing of wilted dreams:

[marym625]

211. Thanks!

I am going to have to get the whole thing. Really interesting, the entire idea. Seems like it could be foreshadowing more than he knew

[davekriss]

153. That is so old...

But so F*kin' true.

[grasswire]

182. I've been thinking about this quote for the last couple of weeks.

And the militarization of law enforcement is no coinkydink.

[Maedhros]

183. Frank had a talent for seeing things for what they were. [n/t]

[woo me with science]

221. Yes.

[BeanMusical]

155. Kick and R.

[marym625]

158. Thank you

[Freelancer]

185. Infuriating, but don't lose heart -- sunlight is a disinfectant

Far more details of this proposal have been put out there than the corporate crafters of it would have liked. Some opposition is likely to rise up in the other potential TPP countries now.

[marym625]

194. I really hope so

I know there are protests in the UK.

I so wish I had money. I want to fight this fight in DC with everything possible. Takes money to get that going. I have time but and will do what I can. But won't be able to do what I want

[treestar]

188. The drama!

Over arbitration provisions and intellectual property issues!

[marym625]

195. uhm. care to elaborate?

[99Forever]

193. I had hoped my anger over this outragous betrayal would have subsided somewhat by now.

It hasn't.

At.

All.

[marym625]

196. I am becoming angrier as time goes on

And I don't understand how every single Democrat isn't pissed. No matter what your position is, this was a betrayal to the party. They played us all for fools. Unfortunately, I actually fell for it. Honestly believed that they took a united stand and would hold out for what should, minimally, been in the TPA.

I won't ever fall for it again

God damn! They're working with McConnell! FOR McConnell. And that doesn't seem to bother the people who are working on faith alone

[woo me with science]

206. kick

[marym625]

207. Thank you, love!

[woo me with science]

212. Thank you,

for the cold, necessary truth.

[woo me with science]

213. kick

[marym625]

215. Thanks again

Every time I come back to this post there's more good stuff on it in subthreads. Pretty cool!

Thanks again

[liberal_at_heart]

214. K&R

[marym625]

216. Thanks!

I'm really surprised my little rant did so well. But all kinds of good information on this thread.

Thanks for the kick!