Yesterday was a deal breaker for me.

[99Forever]

That is all.

[pipoman]

1. I will throw in with the most progressively populist candidates

Over the next few election cycles...I will vote against all of my existing federal office holders...no change since they are all teabaggers...

[n2doc]

2. There are some good Dems and Independents

The problem is we have 10-20 Corporate Party members running as Dems. Watch the vote, I predict you will only see enough voting for the TPP to get to 60.

Support the good, fight the rest.

[stillwaiting]

4. It's more than 10-20 corporatists within the Democratic caucus though.

And, only getting to 60 would be theater to a large extent.

Many of the 40 that don't contribute to the 60 would be more than willing to flip to be part of that 60 if their vote was needed. The whole rotating villains theory which I find to be plausible and likely true. Wall Street has the Senate wrapped up (which is the much more difficult body of Congress to recapture so that was very smart of them).

We need to completely revitalize the Democratic Party through primaries and a massive information campaign that circumvents traditional media in order to educate others on what's happened in this country (and within the Republican AND Democratic Parties). Americans need to know what the solution is in order to fight for it, and most have no clue what the solution is right now.

Most of us will continue to lose economic security as long as Wall Street remains in control of the Democratic Party like they are currently. Until Wall Street approved Democrats are dismissed without a second thought we keep going down (while the elite continue to harvest more and more).

[sabrina 1]

42. 'the whole rotating villains theory' a perfect way to describe what we have been watching

for a long time now. When called upon, just about all of those who are funded by Corporations, have answered the call to make sure that Corporate legislation passes every time.

With the exception of a very few, Bernie Sanders being of them. Others who were often not on board, were targeted for smear campaigns, see Kucinich.

I hope you don't mind if I use that description, with credit to you, as it best describes the system they have in place.

[stillwaiting]

43. Oh you don't have to attribute it to me!!

I came across that on DU from a few other posters and adopted it from them, and I couldn't begin to tell you who originated it.

It certainly rings true to me, and I think that it is very important that we don't persuade ourselves that all of the Democratic Senators/Congresscritters that vote against TPA or the TPP are our allies. The game they are playing is very, very devious. Wall Street's hold on Democratic Senators is incredibly strong (in my opinion), and they will do everything to mask that reality in theater meant to mislead, dazzle, and confuse.

[grasswire]

56. I agree with the MASSIVE EDUCATION CAMPAIGN

...and if those who hold some Democratic power aren't on board, then take it to the local level. If nothing else, print up your own flyers and leave them everywhere. Bus stops, doctor waiting rooms, libraries, everywhere.

[Marr]

58. +1

[brewens]

77. You can't look at votes and read a lot into it for many of them. Like the way they get their

pay raises passed. 95% or more want the money but many more vote against it. The scam is that the whips (in The House anyway) go around and count up the votes and ensure they have it covered. Then anyone that "needs" to vote no, gets the okay to do so. It may because they face a tough race and voting no will play well back home. So you have a scumbag that wanted the raise, knew damn wll he was getting it but bragging that he selflessly voted no!

[KoKo]

96. From the many years I was glued to C-Span watching the vote tallies....

I agree with you. That's how it's done. I've seen a switch favor of Repubs at the last minute, when it looked like the vote would all go in favor of a Dem Bill and you'd see that Dems were in the lead until a few hold out Dems gave the vote to the Repubs. We always have at least 14 or so Dems who are the ones to watch to see how they give the vote to the Repubs at the last moments.

With the Mid-Terms giving control to Repubs there might be a smaller number of Dino Dems...but, still enough to make a difference in a tight vote.

[99Forever]

8. I have all the respect in the world for you Doc.

But after hearing the responses I got to this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6668482

I have no ambition left to fight with. This old man can't do it on my own. I'm done.




Unless of course, I am given a rainbow colored flying unicorn, that craps gold bars and pisses merlot.

[n2doc]

10. Believe me, I'm with ya

Stuck between bad and horrendous options. With far too few good ones.

[JDPriestly]

26. We need to identify people to run against them.

Any DUers ready to step up to the challenge?

[el_bryanto]

3. I know what you mean- i was ready to compromise at May 13, but May 14? Just too high.

Oh well, back to the drawing board - I'm offering June at 9, but I'll settle for 12.

Bryant

[rurallib]

5. what the hell did I miss now?

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

7. ^what rural said

If you don't want to discuss, please provide a link to something.

[Ed Suspicious]

9. Ignore this.

Last edited Thu May 14, 2015, 09:22 AM - Edit history (1)

brbebejkweqabriupwejbnwjibfvpciwa

[pampango]

22. The redstate poster you linked to was complementing Democrats for rejecting fast track on Tuesday,

not for announcing an agreement to approve it on Wednesday.

Yesterday, Barack Obama was handed a sound repudiation by his own party. While I think the Democrats are voting against the agreement for profoundly stupid reasons, I think a negative vote is the thing to do.

[Ed Suspicious]

32. Sorry. Just saw the date and went for it. It's hard to find stories on yesterday's reversal.

[WillyT]

53. Here's One:

DULink: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026667599

[Ed Suspicious]

11. Dems Cave On TPP

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2015/05/democrats-cave-in-on-tpp-and-ttip-good-bye-democracy.html

[grasswire]

60. from that link

For several months now, I have predicted that if no House Democrat would introduce a bill of impeachment against President Barack Obama (for whom I voted, incidentally), then Republicans on November 4th would elect not just one but both houses of Congress, and the closeted conservative Obama would be having a field day during his final two years signing into law lots of pro-big-business, anti-worker, anti-consumer, anti-environmental, legislation, which Democrats in both the House but especially the Senate have thus far been blocking. And, now, on Election Eve, this nightmare seems finally to be coming true. …

It didn’t happen; and so we’ll get an all-conservative Government: Obama’s final two years in office will be spent signing conservative bills into laws that the majority of Democrats in both the House and Senate have, heretofore, blocked: laws reducing the cost-of-living adjustment in the Social Security formula, and approving the TTIP and TPP international trade deals that grant international corporations the power to control the regulations regarding the environment, consumer protection, drug safety, food safety, and virtually all regulatory matters. Republicans and Obama have wanted to transfer those national regulatory powers over to international corporations, but House and Senate Democrats did not; and, now, because there wasn’t a single House Democrat who had the courage to introduce a bill of impeachment against Obama, we will have a Government that is Republican in the House, Republican in the Senate, and Republican in the White House except on women’s issues, where Obama actually has been a Democrat. He hasn’t been lying about that one.
..........
Was there ever any talk about Democrats impeaching Obama??

[Robbins]

87. Unfortuly

A lot of this has been coming true.

And i was one who supported obama over hillary in primarys and voted for him in both 2008 and 2012.

[Ed Suspicious]

12. What Labor Wants from TPP.

http://www.aflcio.org/content/download/132311/3551971/TTPFastTrack_TimeForANewTrack.pdf

[bigwillq]

14. Thank you for the links (nt)

[muriel_volestrangler]

64. A song released by The Beatles in the mid 60s?

Fans of John have always said it's overrated.

[Hoppy]

6. Are you that upset the Rangers won?

Deal breaker? Maybe your team will win next year.

[Whiskeytide]

13. Has anyone checked their balls? N/t

[alcibiades_mystery]

79. Since hockey uses a puck rather than a ball, I can only assume you're referring to the team doctors

[Whiskeytide]

82. That works ... I just felt that "checked their pucks" ...

... sounded too dirty!

[Sunlei]

15. a deal breaker? what deal, there are so many.

[99Forever]

17. If I have to tell you...

... you wouldn't understand. Have a nice day.

[Sunlei]

24. Thanks, it is a good day. A break from rain is always good, its fun to walk in wet grass!

Our brother a spider monkey at the wildlife refuge

[themaguffin]

88. Jesus, some of us don't live on here, DON'T POST VAGUE SHIT.

Have a nice fucking day.

[99Forever]

89. And most people don't live under rock either.

Have nice fucking day yourself.

[themaguffin]

90. Correct. Now use logic. Vague comments could be about a LOT of things.

Stop making excuses. Have nice fucking day and grow the fuck up.

[99Forever]

92. You have me confused with someone...

...who ishere to please you.



Oh yeah, and have a nice fucking day.

[themaguffin]

93. So, now you use straw men.

Grow the fuck up.

[99Forever]

94. Straw men?

Bwahaha.

[Javaman]

16. I know. Wednesdays are like that for me too.

[99Forever]

18. Bless your heart.

[Javaman]

19. aw you got the sad.

how about explaining instead of patronizing?

It's all the rage.

[99Forever]

21. I didn't get my...

...rainbow colored flying unicorn, that craps gold bars and pisses merlot...


... or sumthin.

[Javaman]

25. ahhh I see, now speaking in tongues...

fine.

be that way.

rather than inform, you choose to alienate.

great tactic.

simply a wonderment of ridiculousness.

this is the very simple reason I don't read nor post on DU as much as I once did.

hearts and minds...hearts and minds.

[ieoeja]

38. After failure to secure 60 votes to stop debate on fast track authority on TPP....

... a deal was struck to secure those votes. In addition to the TPP Authority vote, 2 bills supported by liberal Democrats that were being held hostage will also be allowed to come to vote.

Allowing those 2 bills to come to vote doesn't mean much since the Republican majority can easily vote them down. TPP Authority may actually pass. So it was a really bad deal.

The OP is pissed about Democrats taking that deal. The OP doesn't want to tell you what s/he is pissed about because ... Internet?

[Jamastiene]

66. or maybe because if someone doesn't know why a Democrat

would be so let down and disappointed today, they aren't really paying attention to begin with. This has been a major thing for a while now and mostly what everyone is talking about.

[themaguffin]

95. He apparently can't do that.

His next thread subject will likely be just a "."

and then express outrage that we would ask...

[Sunlei]

28. I registered independent too, this is Texas its not safe!

[ieoeja]

39. Can you vote in the Democratic primary if registered Independant in your state?

If not, you need to re-register Democratic to help him win the primary.

[840high]

84. Same here.

[newfie11]

23. Your not alone

I am beyond disgusted.

[Thespian2]

27. So our wonderful Dem senators

get to vote on some bills that they approve of...thanks to Harry and The Turtle...for the right to vote on legislation, the dems sold America to giant corporations...What a great country!!

[fredamae]

29. How would the "Silk Suited Lords in DC"

respond to a Mass Exodus by both Dems and GOP from their respective bases?

Somehow...I don't think they'd care and I think it would be a marker of how Little power we have to redress our govt these days.

I'm leaving the party myself. But I'll re register as a Dem before the primary...For Bernie.

(And that's It....Sen Wyden. I'm done with you.)

[raindaddy]

30. Tale of two parties...

Last edited Thu May 14, 2015, 10:41 AM - Edit history (1)

Third Way and the Democrats and I will not be supporting third way candidates...

[Trajan]

31. Your post is fine ... I immediately understood what you were referring to ...

And I'm with you all the way ...

[MohRokTah]

33. Because the only thing in the world that matters is making sure there is no TPP!!!

[99Forever]

34. Happy to hear you like backstabbing betrayal.

Me?

Not so much.


Bless your heart.

[MohRokTah]

36. Here is a list of the backstabbing betrayers, IMO

Baldwin (D-WI)
Bennet (D-CO)
Blumenthal (D-CT)
Boxer (D-CA)
Brown (D-OH)
Cantwell (D-WA)
Cardin (D-MD)
Casey (D-PA)
Coons (D-DE)
Donnelly (D-IN)
Durbin (D-IL)
Feinstein (D-CA)
Franken (D-MN)
Gillibrand (D-NY)
Heinrich (D-NM)
Heitkamp (D-ND)
Hirono (D-HI)
Kaine (D-VA)
King (I-ME)
Klobuchar (D-MN)
Leahy (D-VT)
Manchin (D-WV)
Markey (D-MA)
McCaskill (D-MO)
McConnell (R-KY)
Menendez (D-NJ)
Merkley (D-OR)
Mikulski (D-MD)
Murphy (D-CT)
Murray (D-WA)
Nelson (D-FL)
Peters (D-MI)
Reed (D-RI)
Reid (D-NV)
Sanders (I-VT)
Schatz (D-HI)
Schumer (D-NY)
Shaheen (D-NH)
Stabenow (D-MI)
Tester (D-MT)
Udall (D-NM)
Warner (D-VA)
Warren (D-MA)
Whitehouse (D-RI)
Wyden (D-OR)

Actually, no, they're not backstabbing betrayers. They simply disagreed on a trade issue.

[stillwaiting]

44. The TPP is MUCH more than a trade issue. It's a whole BUNCH of issues.

But you know that.

[MohRokTah]

45. And we will be better off in the long term with it than without it. eom

[jeff47]

47. Why? We already have free trade agreements with most of the countries in the TPP.

So the TPP can't "open new markets". They're already open.

So how will we be better off?

[MohRokTah]

49. Ending currency manipulation is one plus.

Also, limiting the power of China while building markets in Vietnam and some other countries are other pluses.

Overall, it is better for the global economy, and thus the economy of the US, if the economies of poorer countries are expanded into new markets.

[jeff47]

59. Ah yes, that bullshit. It's not in the TPP.

In fact, it's supposed to be what derailed "fast track". Yet it is not in the new "fast track" legislation. Instead there's a separate bill for it, which will fail to pass the Senate.

Also, limiting the power of China while building markets in Vietnam and some other countries are other pluses.

There is nothing in the TPP that limits the power of China. In fact, the TPP allows US corporations to boost the power of China in Vietnam - The TPP makes it easier for US capital to build a factory in Vietnam to sell goods to China.

Overall, it is better for the global economy, and thus the economy of the US, if the economies of poorer countries are expanded into new markets.

Again, there are already no significant trade barriers to the economies in the TPP. We already have free trade agreements with 80% of the "GDP" covered by the the TPP.

About 12% of the remaining is Japan, which has a whopping 1.2% tariff on US goods. If you want to claim 1.2% is crippling trade, you're going to have to explain how sales taxes aren't crippling the economy within the US.

That leaves 8% over the remaining 8 countries. Or 1% of the total GDP per country. Numbers that small are not going to do shit for US exports. "We exported 5,000 widgets to South Korea, but now we can export an additional 3!!"

[MohRokTah]

67. How do you know?

OOPS, you don't.

[jeff47]

69. Because I wasn't unconscious yesterday.

Yes, I do know. Because that's literally what Democratic Senators said FUCKING YESTERDAY.

I think the biggest sign that the TPP is an awful deal is just how terrible its supporters are doing at arguing for the deal. You're down to pretending yesterday did not happen.

[raindaddy]

40. The TPP is just the tip of the iceberg

Under the surface is the ideology of globalization and handing more and more power to the greediest, anti-labor, anti-environment, faction on the planet.. The Democratic party once stood for regulating this faction in the interests of the poor and middle class. That's the party I signed on to..

[MohRokTah]

41. I disagree completely with your take on it. eom

[grasswire]

62. well, considering how often you are on the wrong side of the issues...

...then your pronouncement here is no surprise.

[MohRokTah]

68. I am rarely on the wrong side of issues.

I'm rarely on the extremist side of issues, too.

[F4lconF16]

86. Argument to moderation

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Appeal_to_moderation

My post yesterday, which you never responded to:

That "far left" you're so critical of includes people like MLK, Eugene Debs, Jane Addams, W.E.B. Du Bois, Ella Baker, Rachel Carson, Pete Seeger, Cesar Chavez, and so many more.

The far left has done more good for the working class than any other part of the spectrum. They're the ones that push for constant change. They're the ones that don't shut up about injustice. They're the ones who won't sit back down when they're told. The far left and its radicalism has driven more change than any of the Democratic politicians who talk about their bullshit "Hope and Change".

I'm proud to call myself part of the true "far left" in this country.

[MohRokTah]

91. Irrelevent in political debates. eom

[F4lconF16]

97. Why? nt

[woo me with science]

98. [phone]

[stonecutter357]

35. I will vote for the Democratic nominee for President

[closeupready]

37. The corruption of our national government is metastasizing, IMO.

I'm not where you are quite yet, but I am not voting for Hillary, so perhaps if she becomes the nominee, I will be ready to say the same thing.

[RiverLover]

51. +1 /nt

[SidDithers]

46. Yeah, sure it was...

Sid

[99Forever]

48. Sid.

Bless your heart most of all.

[SidDithers]

50. Your posting history indicates that if you ever had a "deal" at all...

it was broken a long, long time ago.

Sid

[wyldwolf]

54. yesterday was a really really really 'he means it this time' deal breaker.

[SidDithers]

57. It's the final line in the sand...

the last one, that came after all the other ones.

Sid

[99Forever]

74. Bless your heart even more Sid.

[SidDithers]

80. Bless you, too...nt

Sid

[treestar]

65. Yep

Real credible

[DCBob]

52. What deal??

You do realize you are not the only Democratic voter in your state? Senators represent us all and I and many others are fine with what they did yesterday. Get over it.

[grasswire]

63. you don't have a senator, do you? nt

[DCBob]

72. I live in Maryland.

[99Forever]

73. No Bob...

I won't "get over it."

Thanks for kicking the thread.

Bless your heart.

[DCBob]

75. Im sorry you feel that way.

It doesn't help the cause.

[99Forever]

78. Apparently Bob...

...we don't share causes.

Perhaps you should "get over" yours.

[DCBob]

81. I think we do.. Im just more flexible on how to get there.

[99Forever]

83. No bob...

... I'm quite certain we don't.

[sendero]

55. My deal...

... was already broken so I more or less expected this. And I expect final passage as well.

[NuclearDem]

61. ...

[99Forever]

71. Isn't that special?

Bless your heart.

[NuclearDem]

76. It's truly tragic to lose such a loyal supporter.

[840high]

85. Actually it is. There are many of us.