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FarCenter

(19,429 posts)
Wed May 9, 2012, 08:09 PM May 2012

Here's What China Gets Right About Education, And What The US And Europe Get Wrong

Here's what Schleicher said he discovered when he asked teenagers why they should do well at school:

"North Americans tell you typically it's all luck. 'I'm born talented in mathematics, or I'm born less talented so I'll study something else.'

"In Europe, it's all about social heritage: 'My father was a plumber so I'm going to be a plumber'.

"In China, more than nine out of 10 children tell you: 'It depends on the effort I invest and I can succeed if I study hard.'

"They take on responsibility. They can overcome obstacles and say 'I'm the owner of my own success', rather than blaming it on the system."



Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/china-education-schools-2012-5
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eek MD

(391 posts)
16. Seriously?
Wed May 9, 2012, 09:58 PM
May 2012

It's not North Korea. Half the time, schoolkids will approach YOU in China just to practice English.

Unfortunately (or fortunately depending how you look at it), kids in China get tremendous parental pressure to succeed in school, and I think that plays a huge role in their views about education.

Fumesucker

(45,851 posts)
10. I should have included the link..
Wed May 9, 2012, 08:42 PM
May 2012
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socio-economic_mobility_in_the_United_States#Comparisons_with_other_countries

Several large studies of mobility in developed countries in recent years have found that the US among the lowest in mobility.[4][8] One study (“Do Poor Children Become Poor Adults?&quot [8][9][12] found that of nine developed countries, the United States and United Kingdom had the lowest intergenerational vertical social mobility with about half of the advantages of having a parent with a high income passed on to the next generation. The four countries with the lowest "intergenerational income elasticity", i.e. the highest social mobility, were Denmark, Norway, Finland, and Canada with less than 20% of advantages of having a high income parent passed on to their children. (see graph)[8]

According to journalist Jason DeParle
At least five large studies in recent years have found the United States to be less mobile than comparable nations. A project led by Markus Jantti, an economist at a Swedish university, found that 42 percent of American men raised in the bottom fifth of incomes stay there as adults. That shows a level of persistent disadvantage much higher than in Denmark (25 percent) and Britain (30 percent) — a country famous for its class constraints.[13] Meanwhile, just 8 percent of American men at the bottom rose to the top fifth. That compares with 12 percent of the British and 14 percent of the Danes. Despite frequent references to the United States as a classless society, about 62 percent of Americans (male and female) raised in the top fifth of incomes stay in the top two-fifths, according to research by the Economic Mobility Project of the Pew Charitable Trusts. Similarly, 65 percent born in the bottom fifth stay in the bottom two-fifths.[4][14]

The Economist also stated that "evidence from social scientists suggests that American society is much `stickier` than most Americans assume. ... would-be Horatio Algers are finding it no easier to climb from rags to riches, while the children of the privileged have a greater chance of staying at the top of the social heap. The United States risks calcifying into a European-style class-based society."[10][15]
 

FarCenter

(19,429 posts)
9. Is this normalized for income inequality?
Wed May 9, 2012, 08:42 PM
May 2012

Higher intergenerational income elasticity could be the result of higher income inequality generally.

Presumably the elasticity is both up and down?

bhikkhu

(10,715 posts)
13. I've read that inheritance taxes, or lack thereof, is the biggest factor there
Wed May 9, 2012, 09:34 PM
May 2012

...or that wealth tend to concentrate and stay concentrated in family groups, along with access to the connections and educational and business opportunities that go along with them. The one factor that levels the playing field, more or less, is the amount of taxes taken out and distributed when a wealthy head of household passes.

If its a reasonable amount then there is a natural increase in opportunities for social mobility, and (ironically) society becomes much more of a meritocracy.

bhikkhu

(10,715 posts)
3. Though I've never been to China or Europe, I agree
Wed May 9, 2012, 08:17 PM
May 2012

...having heard over and over from my kids how they can't do something or other because "I'm not good at it". Every time, I tell them that people who are good at things have worked long and hard at, without exception. Yet all my illustrative stories and explanations later, it seems to have not made a dent in my household.

I can only think that the whole idea is picked up from and reinforced by their peers, teachers, and other adults. In any case, it frustrates me no end to see them limits themselves so much before they have even tried anything, and perpetually bail out of anything effortful because they think it should be easy, if only they were talented.

bhikkhu

(10,715 posts)
12. I'd be very surprised to hear otherwise
Wed May 9, 2012, 09:25 PM
May 2012

in my household, most privileges and rewards are tied to grades and homework and so forth...but I've never been much good at the punishment side of the "behavioral management" equation.

I've heard more complaints from kids that their parents really don't care what they do in school, or elsewhere, and I can't recall ever hearing a kid really complain that there parents expected them to do well in school or they'd be in trouble.

Fumesucker

(45,851 posts)
15. My daughter failed algebra 1 three times, the last time she paid her own money for summer school.
Wed May 9, 2012, 09:46 PM
May 2012

Then she took it one final time and made an A..

The difference? The first three times she had a football coach as algebra teacher and the last time the teacher was a woman who was not a coach..

By that fourth try daughter was thoroughly convinced she would never understand algebra and I was starting to agree with her, even though I could do her algebra homework I never could explain it in a way that got through to her, then she found someone who could make sense of it for her.

 

dballance

(5,756 posts)
4. I really have to disagree with you
Wed May 9, 2012, 08:22 PM
May 2012

My parents most definitely preached to me that my success was dependent upon how much effort I invested in school work. Not that I had some genetic talent I was born with for math or English.

They followed that up with making sure I was doing my homework and putting forth the effort.

KansDem

(28,498 posts)
7. Are these the same Chinese students who hook up to I.V.s while cramming?
Wed May 9, 2012, 08:35 PM
May 2012
Chinese students use IV drips while test cramming

Disturbing pictures have emerged of a classroom full of Chinese high school students hooked up to IV drips so they stay alert as they cram for the annual "gaokao" -- college entrance exam.

Some 9.5 milion students will take the two-day exam in June to compete for some 6.5 places in Chinese colleges. The competition is most intense for the elite universities like Beijing's Peking University and Tsinghua University.




http://behindthewall.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/05/07/11580943-chinese-students-use-iv-drips-while-test-cramming?chromedomain=worldblog

One assumes the "6.5 places" is a mistake and should read as "6.5 million places."
 

pipoman

(16,038 posts)
8. These teachings are timeless..
Wed May 9, 2012, 08:39 PM
May 2012

there have been many, many books written about changing people's outlook and reinforce positive attitude. Sadly it isn't taught in school so many don't find these truth's or if they do it is later in life. Some teachers, especially older teachers have negative attitudes from not progressing as they wished or just putting up with ingrates for years..

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