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cali

(114,904 posts)
Fri May 15, 2015, 06:00 AM May 2015

Australian Labor Party: We've rejected ISDS with the U.S. in the past. Why accept it now?

Labor has called on the federal government to follow the example of the Howard years and oppose the inclusion of a controversial dispute-settlement provision in trade talks with the US.

Shadow trade minister Penny Wong says accepting Investor-State Dispute Settlement (ISDS) provisions in the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) trade agreement could jeopardise domestic policies in areas ranging from healthcare to the environment.

“Trade Minister Andrew Robb should explain why he is willing to accept ISDS provisions in the TPP when the Howard Government would not accept them in the Australia-United States free Trade Agreement,” Senator Wong said in a statement today.

“ISDS provisions in the TPP could allow multinationals to challenge Australian policies designed to protect public welfare in international arbitration tribunals," Ms Wong said.


<snip>

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/latest/reject-tpp-dispute-settlement-alp/story-e6frg90f-1227356065402

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Australian Labor Party: We've rejected ISDS with the U.S. in the past. Why accept it now? (Original Post) cali May 2015 OP
Short answer: Because Tony Abbott is far worse than even Howard was... Violet_Crumble May 2015 #1
Hi Violet. So nice to see you. cali May 2015 #2
Good to see you too, cali. Violet_Crumble May 2015 #5
! stonecutter357 May 2015 #3
bwahahaaha cali May 2015 #4
Hello! I need a translation... Violet_Crumble May 2015 #6
And your point? AllyCat May 2015 #7
I think they're off looking for an appropriate emoticon... Violet_Crumble May 2015 #10
really? Duppers May 2015 #8
and Pres. Obama Duppers May 2015 #9

Violet_Crumble

(35,961 posts)
1. Short answer: Because Tony Abbott is far worse than even Howard was...
Fri May 15, 2015, 06:20 AM
May 2015

I don't know what the excuse is for left wing American politicians who support that thing.

Here's some more info on ISDS. The bit about Phillip Morris already suing Australia via a trade agreement with Hong Kong is a hint of what will happen:

There have been more than 550 ISDS claims made against governments, the vast majority of them made in the past decade. Possibly the most famous of these is the ISDS claim brought by tobacco company Philip Morris against the Australian government’s plain packaging legislation.

Philip Morris is suing Australia under an ISDS provision in a Hong Kong-Australia investment agreement. It’s just one of 28 agreements Australia has signed that include an ISDS provision. Deals with countries like China, India, Peru, Chile and Singapore contain the provision.

However, when the Howard government signed a free trade agreement with the United States in 2004, both parties agreed to leave ISDS out of it. Now, as trade negotiators draw closer to signing the Trans Pacific Partnership, Australia could be about to sign up for ISDS with the United States for the first time.

That worries critics like ANU Law Professor Thomas Faunce because America is not just Australia’s largest source of foreign investment, it’s also the nation whose corporations are the most frequent users of ISDS.

‘If we create investor state disputes settlement with established democracies and developed countries with very powerful corporations, that’s a new thing. That’s what we’re concerned about,’ he says.

For his part, the head of trade and international policy at the Australian Chamber of Commerce and Industry, Bryan Clark, can’t understand what all the fuss is about.

‘The Australian Government has had ISDS provisions, or very similar ones, in free trade agreements and bilateral investment treaties since the 1950s,’ he says. ‘They have been in place for a very long time, and they haven’t created any risk to the Australian economy. I fundamentally don’t see why that circumstance would change now.’

Faunce insists this is different, however, and people only need to look to Canada to see what an ISDS agreement with the United States could mean for Australia. ‘If you think that all this discussion of ISDS is scare-mongering, just have a look at what’s happened to Canada under the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) with the United States. It’s all there ready and waiting to happen to us.’

When NAFTA was signed in the ‘90s, the United States and Canada wanted to include an ISDS provision in the agreement to protect their investors in Mexico, where they considered the justice system suspect. What they didn’t anticipate was that the ISDS provision would be used against them.

There have been dozens of ISDS claims launched under NAFTA, many of them against the United States and Canada. The United States has never lost a case, but Canada has been sued nearly 20 times and has lost or settled seven times, paying American corporations at least $US158 million in compensation.

One of the earliest cases, launched in the late 1990s, was about a fuel additive called MMT, which the Canadian government decided to ban after it concluded that it could be a threat to human health and the environment. After being sued by Ethyl, the American corporation that manufactured MMT, the Canadian government settled the case for $US13 million. To settle, it had to agree to overturn the ban and, to add insult to injury, publish a statement declaring MMT to be safe.

There are eight cases pending against Canada, with damages claims totalling almost $6 billion. One of those cases has particular resonance for Australia. It’s a claim made by an American resources company against the moratorium on oil and gas exploration in Quebec.

http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/backgroundbriefing/isds-the-devil-in-the-trade-deal/5734490


 

cali

(114,904 posts)
2. Hi Violet. So nice to see you.
Fri May 15, 2015, 06:25 AM
May 2015

thanks for the view from your neck of the woods. Btw, left wing dems here in Congress don't support it at all. In fact, the vast majority don't support it. The last count I've heard in the House, is 20 dems have said they'll support it. In the Senate, it's easier going, but I doubt more than 10 will support it.

The worst thing about that PM ISDS case is the chilling effect that it (and the ISDS case by PM against Uruguay) has had on other countries re their proposed similar labeling laws.

Violet_Crumble

(35,961 posts)
5. Good to see you too, cali.
Fri May 15, 2015, 07:28 AM
May 2015

I hope more dems wise up to the dangers of the TPP and withdraw their support. I'd like to see Australia reject it, but unfortunately there's no signs of an election happening anytime soon. If the ALP and the Greens had the numbers in Parliament they'd reject it for sure. What I really don't understand is why Obama's so hot for the TPP and why I've seen a few DUers pretending it's a good thing.

The whole PM thing pisses me off. I'm a smoker and I support the plain packaging and the warning labels. If they'd been there when I was younger I'd never have started smoking. Which of course isn't what PM wants. I don't know if you've seen our packaging but I know smokers who buy cigarette cases just so they don't have to look at Dyin' Bryan.



 

cali

(114,904 posts)
4. bwahahaaha
Fri May 15, 2015, 06:45 AM
May 2015

you've managed it. you've managed to remove all doubt just with the use of smilies. This is what you post in every thread where you either don't know enough to respond cogently, or where you can't come up with an argument.



Violet_Crumble

(35,961 posts)
6. Hello! I need a translation...
Fri May 15, 2015, 07:31 AM
May 2015

I got as far as the first emoticon which I guess translates as: 'Penny Wong has her tinfoil hat on, as those radical far leftist ALP politicians tend to do. If only they were more centrist!' but then didn't understand what the second one is. Is it a smiley scratching its arse trying to think of ways to sell that dud of a TPP to the world?

Violet_Crumble

(35,961 posts)
10. I think they're off looking for an appropriate emoticon...
Fri May 15, 2015, 08:49 AM
May 2015

One that says: 'Oops! I haven't read anything on ISDS and how it'd affect Australia and it was a bit knee-jerky of me to label the Australian Left as being tin-foil hat types!' That'll be followed by a

They'll be back soon!

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