Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

RainDog

(28,784 posts)
Wed May 9, 2012, 10:18 PM May 2012

When have conservatives EVER been on the "right side of history?"



I'm not just talking about Republicans, either. I'm talking about social conservative Democrats.

I cannot think of one issue about which they have made the compelling argument for democracy in terms of economics, personal freedom, religious freedom... so WHY do so many people insist on modes of thought that they can look at, historically, and recognize that they're wrong?
24 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
When have conservatives EVER been on the "right side of history?" (Original Post) RainDog May 2012 OP
Never. MrSlayer May 2012 #1
By their own admission, they'd like to stop the progress of history aint_no_life_nowhere May 2012 #2
great quote. I've never seen that one before n/t RainDog May 2012 #10
To answer your second question bupkus May 2012 #3
The next time will be hifiguy May 2012 #4
LOLOL!!!! RainDog May 2012 #11
That's probably why they're always so bitter, mean and petty Canuckistanian May 2012 #5
Selfishness is inherent to human nature. Many change, conservatives dont't. demosincebirth May 2012 #6
I think it's more about fear RainDog May 2012 #18
What the old-timer said... Mopar151 May 2012 #7
When Turbineguy May 2012 #8
Perhaps only their founding father was correct Rex May 2012 #9
I read quite a bit of his work oh so long ago RainDog May 2012 #16
I think he would cry if he knew that the Teabaggers Rex May 2012 #20
1861 scheming daemons May 2012 #12
Slavery was socially and economically conservative RainDog May 2012 #13
Staunch religious conservatives made up the abolitionist movement scheming daemons May 2012 #14
Uh.....I'm sorry, but what? AverageJoe90 May 2012 #15
What was the context of the time? RainDog May 2012 #17
you said it first and more eloquently than I eShirl May 2012 #24
more like what we would now call religious liberals eShirl May 2012 #23
A conservative who supports progress on an issue is simply a conservative NYC Liberal May 2012 #19
Prior to the 20th century, the political positions of 'conservative' and 'liberal' were coalition_unwilling May 2012 #21
When have conservatives EVER been on the "right side of history?" KAIXIN1 May 2012 #22
 

MrSlayer

(22,143 posts)
1. Never.
Wed May 9, 2012, 10:27 PM
May 2012

From the revolution to slavery to prohibition, women's suffrage, the labor movement, social security, civil rights, Vietnam, Medicare, ERA, Iran-Contra, gulf war I, Afghanistan, Iraq, patriot act and marriage equality they have ALWAYS been on the wrong side.

I'm sure there are many more.

aint_no_life_nowhere

(21,925 posts)
2. By their own admission, they'd like to stop the progress of history
Wed May 9, 2012, 10:27 PM
May 2012

"A Conservative is a fellow who is standing athwart history yelling 'Stop!'"

William F.Buckley, Jr.

 

bupkus

(1,981 posts)
3. To answer your second question
Wed May 9, 2012, 10:31 PM
May 2012

"so WHY do so many people insist on modes of thought that they can look at, historically, and recognize that they're wrong?"

Because people are just that f'ing stupid. That's why. And they're that full of hatred for the people they're tricked into believing are their enemies by a few people who are their true enemies. But that goes right back to people being that f'ing stupid, doesn't it?

Canuckistanian

(42,290 posts)
5. That's probably why they're always so bitter, mean and petty
Wed May 9, 2012, 10:45 PM
May 2012

They ALWAYS misread society in times of great change.

Mopar151

(9,965 posts)
7. What the old-timer said...
Wed May 9, 2012, 11:02 PM
May 2012

(from Prof. Allen Foley's book of that name on Vermont humor)

What's the matter, Joe?

I don't like all them changes they're makin' up to Montpelier!

Joe, you've been around a long time. You must have seen a lot of changes.

That's right! And I been again' every god-dammed one of 'em!

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
9. Perhaps only their founding father was correct
Wed May 9, 2012, 11:27 PM
May 2012
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmund_Burke

I have no doubt he would be horrified at what we see today in GOPers like the Pigman.

RainDog

(28,784 posts)
16. I read quite a bit of his work oh so long ago
Thu May 10, 2012, 01:20 AM
May 2012

he was a really interesting intellectual.

of course, his views were actually pretty centrist back in the 1700s....

no doubt he would conflate the teabaggers with the mob that he detested in France during the revolution. He would think they're too stupid to govern. I think I would agree with him.

RainDog

(28,784 posts)
13. Slavery was socially and economically conservative
Thu May 10, 2012, 01:00 AM
May 2012

it doesn't matter what the label for the party may have been. Slavery was the status quo.

And part of the point is that the party label doesn't matter. If you're a Democrat and you support conservative positions - you're a conservative, not a liberal. You may call yourself a Democrat and share views on issues with both Republicans and Democrats - but if you, for instance, don't support equal rights for all adults - you're a social conservative. Even if you're a Democrat. Or you're a politician who is trying to appeal to social conservatives in your party.

 

scheming daemons

(25,487 posts)
14. Staunch religious conservatives made up the abolitionist movement
Thu May 10, 2012, 01:03 AM
May 2012

Northern conservatives led the battle against slavery.


RainDog

(28,784 posts)
17. What was the context of the time?
Thu May 10, 2012, 01:33 AM
May 2012

The abolitionist movement was not simply made up of religious groups, btw. Fredrick Douglass would beg to differ. Along with other former slaves.

However, what was a religious conservative in that time? In comparison to what?

You can certainly say that religious groups in the north were part of the abolitionist movement - but I don't know how you can label them as conservative in relation to other beliefs at the time.

so, how do you go about doing that? what made them conservative in that time?

In the 1700s the Quakers were anti-slavery and were aligned with the atheist, Thomas Paine. So, were they conservative then?

I don't think you can apply the term "conservative" to all religious groups and you need to look at their social beliefs in the context of the time. It seems to me that, by default, any religion that was staunchly anti-slavery even before the American revolution was not a conservative religious group.

On the other hand, the religious groups in the south that used the Bible to try to justify slavery could, following the logic of conservatism as the attempt to conserve the status quo, be considered social conservatives. And religious conservatives, due to the Great Awakening - but the Great Awakening influenced the entire nation - some to positive action and some to negative action.

So, again, I guess you need to provide an explanation of religious conservative in relation to that era for me to say... okay, maybe this is one instance.

eShirl

(18,466 posts)
24. you said it first and more eloquently than I
Thu May 10, 2012, 04:29 AM
May 2012


I'm often a "reply first, read other replies later" type of person

eShirl

(18,466 posts)
23. more like what we would now call religious liberals
Thu May 10, 2012, 04:27 AM
May 2012

courageous Quakers who weren't afraid of rocking the boat, for instance

NYC Liberal

(20,132 posts)
19. A conservative who supports progress on an issue is simply a conservative
Thu May 10, 2012, 02:13 AM
May 2012

taking the liberal position on one issue.

The conservative position on an issue is always against progress.

 

coalition_unwilling

(14,180 posts)
21. Prior to the 20th century, the political positions of 'conservative' and 'liberal' were
Thu May 10, 2012, 03:54 AM
May 2012

almost diametrically opposed to what one associates with the labels today.

To wit, conservatives generally favored a larger governmental role in the economy while liberals favored removing some or all governmental role in the economy.

On a semi-humorous note, in the mid-1970s, the only leftwing organization protesting against South African apartheid in America that I'm aware of was the Communist Party USA (and other CP iterations). I've begun to think that communists are about 20-50 years ahead of the Democratic and Republican parties on questions of social justice.

 

KAIXIN1

(6 posts)
22. When have conservatives EVER been on the "right side of history?"
Thu May 10, 2012, 04:02 AM
May 2012

They ALWAYS misread society in times of great change.It's a beauty!
Latest Discussions»General Discussion»When have conservatives E...