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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsSix months since the child, Tamir Rice, was murdered and the cop hasn't even been questioned
Mother Jones
Mother Jones has learned that the two officers involved in the shootingTimothy Loehmann, who fired the shots, and Frank Garmback, who drove the police carstill have not been interviewed by investigators from the sheriff's department. According to an official familiar with the case, investigators have made more than one attempt to interview Loehmann and Garmback since the Cleveland Police Department handed over the case in January. (Read more about why the sheriff's department took over the investigation here.)
A county official familiar with the case toldMother Jones that the criminal investigation is focused solely on Loehmann. Garmback, who pulled the police car to within a few feet of Rice right before Loehmann stepped out and shot Rice almost instantly, is currently not under criminal investigation by the sheriff's department, the official said.
It remains unclear why, in the minutes after both Rice and his sister lay on the ground, the officers did not tend to Rice. According to Stoughtonwho previously served as a police officer himself for five yearsa fundamental principle of policing is that once a threat has been eliminated and a scene secured, an officer's first priority is to aid an injured person. "At that point, the officer and his medical kit might be the only thing between the suspect and death," he says. "It's not only an ethical requirement but almost certainly a departmental imperative to do what they can to save the life of the suspect. The failure to do that is really disturbing."
This is unconscionable. Do they think we'll just forget if they wait long enough?
That poor family has been through such hell. The city of Cleveland has been torturing this family for six months. Kill their 12 year old, attack their 14 year old, harass the mother then pummel the parents in the press. Let's not forget saying Tamir was responsible for his own death. This 12 year old playing in the park.
Disgusting
More at link
http://m.motherjones.com/politics/2015/05/tamir-rice-investigation-cleveland-police
uppityperson
(115,677 posts)NotoriousRBG
(44 posts)Honest question
Yes. But they can't evoke the right if they're never questioned
cstanleytech
(26,245 posts)are invoking their 5th amendment rights and that is why they havent been asked any?
marym625
(17,997 posts)It isn't that the cops aren't talking. They have not been questioned. It isn't that they are remaining silent, no one has asked them any questions to not answer.
cstanleytech
(26,245 posts)to get involved then.
marym625
(17,997 posts)GGJohn
(9,951 posts)but have been unable to.
Mother Jones has learned that the two officers involved in the shootingTimothy Loehmann, who fired the shots, and Frank Garmback, who drove the police carstill have not been interviewed by investigators from the sheriff's department. According to an official familiar with the case, investigators have made more than one attempt to interview Loehmann and Garmback since the Cleveland Police Department handed over the case in January. (Read more about why the sheriff's department took over the investigation here.)
It's not that they haven't tried, it's probably that their union rep or attorney has refused to allow any questioning by the Sheriff's Office.
marym625
(17,997 posts)But I don't believe it. They could easily cause the officers to surrender themselves for questioning. If they were "thugs" they wanted to question you know damn well it would have happened by now.
I am not trying to sound argumentative, just saying what I believe. This whole area has serious issues with police brutality, excessive use of force and racism
GGJohn
(9,951 posts)Cops have the same 5th Amen. rights as citizens, as long as their union rep or attorney refuses to allow those 2 to be questioned, then there's not much the investigator's can do.
marym625
(17,997 posts)Hard to do that when you haven't been asked anything.
I think I owe you something about a constitutional right. That's all I remember. I couldn't find the post later and, unfortunately, my memory isn't what it used to be.
Or do I have the wrong person?
GGJohn
(9,951 posts)They can invoke their 5A before being questioned, all their attorney's or union reps have to do is tell the investigators that their client's refuse to answer any questions and are invoking their 5A right.
marym625
(17,997 posts)And it is not false that it's difficult to believe someone would evoke 5th amendment rights when there haven't been any questions. But again, that is not what this is about.
I never said it was impossible to use the 5th amendment without being questioned. But it is unreasonable to believe someone would.
The idea that there is any serious attempt to question these police officers, and that they can just have their rep say, "nah, they are not feeling it and evoke their 5th amendment rights" and that is sufficient for a criminal investigation, is ridiculous
There has been no serious attempt to question them. They have not, according to any papers filed or questions asked of any department, been asked anything that would cause them to use the 5th amendment. And if they are not asked anything, even through an attorney or rep, to use the 5th amendment.
And I'm guessing that you can provide proof of your claims?
It's very common for police officers to refuse to answer any questions concerning questionable shootings.
marym625
(17,997 posts)You seriously want to just argue with me to argue with me
Please provide any proof to the contrary. Show me where they evoked the 5th amendment. Show me where any serious attempt to question them has been made. I can't prove a negative.
It's been well over six months and they have not been questioned. There's my proof. Your turn
GGJohn
(9,951 posts)You made the claim that these officers haven't invoked their 5A right, it's up to you to provide the proof of your claim.
marym625
(17,997 posts)It's that they aren't seriously attempting to question them.
You stated that there have been several attempts to question them. Where is the proof of that? "More than one" us hardly several.
I never said that they have not evoked their right. I said that isn't what this is about. I said nothing anywhere says they have. I said they are not seriously attempting to question them. I said that a bench warrant could be issued.
There is no question that there is no serious attempt to question these officers and there is no serious attempt to investigate the murder of this child.
What exactly is your problem?
You are the one that brought up the 5th amendment. Prove it or stfu.
GGJohn
(9,951 posts)Again, provide the proof that the investigators haven't made any serious attempts to question these 2 officers.
Even if a bench warrant were issued, do you seriously believe that would negate their 5A?
What exactly is your problem?
My problem is that you are spewing statements without any proof of those statements.
marym625
(17,997 posts)Yeah, figured as much. I did prove my point. You, on the other hand, have done no such thing
Until you actually prove anything you spew, I am done with you
GGJohn
(9,951 posts)You made the claim, prove it with facts or links, should be really simple.
NoJusticeNoPeace
(5,018 posts)This dead black child does not matter enough to make shit really happen as if he was the dead white child of a rich person, for instance'
Be assured if this was the dead white child of some rich person living there, much more pressure would be applied to everyone concerned to get interviews, indictments, grand juries, etc.
Dead black kids matter almost not at all in many areas of this rabidly racist society.
didnt you know that, dear?
I know you did, you just forgot.
marym625
(17,997 posts)This brought me to tears. Thank you for the stark reality check.
I don't know why I respond to racist.
GGJohn
(9,951 posts)I've said that the Tamir Rice shooting is murder and the officers involved should be charged, but until they are convicted, in this country, there is a presumption of innocence, something you aren't willing to admit.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)"You had best not be calling me racist'
Is that a threat? Whatchoo gonna do if somebody calls you racist? I'd like to know just in case I ever use my first amendment right to call you racist. I hope that was not a threat. Makes me inclined to believe you might be. Real racist get angry and make threat when called out on their racism. You might wanna think about why somebody might call u that. It's the way you talk that makes you seem marginal.
GGJohn
(9,951 posts)Welcome to ignore, my first so you should feel honored.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Is my problem. Nobody called you anything. It was you and your guilty conscience.
Oh, btw, that welcome to ignore thing cracks me up. Like you special.
phil89
(1,043 posts)what else was going to happen in that scenario?? The parents should have been questioned good lord.
GGJohn
(9,951 posts)the cop didn't even give the kid a chance to drop it, he exited the car and within less than 2 seconds, shot Tamir and then didn't even render aid, which may have saved the kid's life.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)The cop jumped out of the car and shot him. Less than 2 seconds after pulling up. He had no time to point the gun. Stop lying and go research before you go around talking bullshit.
uppityperson
(115,677 posts)He did not point a gun. They pulled up right next to him, putting the rookie who shot him at risk. IF there was a gun, that rookie might well be dead. Instead, he shot as he opened the door to get out. There was no time for Tamir to do anything. Then they did not do any first aid or even check him for minutes, until someone else came.
One would think the cops might assess the situation from a distance, and if they shot him at least check and see how badly he was injured once he was down. But no. Neither of those happened.
GGJohn
(9,951 posts)Up until I saw the video, I was willing to give the cops the benefit of the doubt, but once the video was released, all benefit of doubt vanished, AFAIC, that was an execution.
uppityperson
(115,677 posts)was released and it became obvious what happened. Then they released the extended video, showing the blatant lack of disregard for the show 12 year old.
daleanime
(17,796 posts)Are you serious?
marym625
(17,997 posts)But I had my suspicions too.
Fast Walker 52
(7,723 posts)how can people not be outraged?
marym625
(17,997 posts)I don't understand how the federal government hasn't stepped in at this point. Where's the DOJ?
This is insanity.
NoJusticeNoPeace
(5,018 posts)BTW this is also why giving in to the BULLSHIT that shooting Michael Brown was justified, is pissing me off too
No, neither of these are justified.
Just because you cant prove these asshole cops werent in fear for their lives, which is the ONLY reason Darren Wilson didnt get indicted by the DOJ etc
marym625
(17,997 posts)And McCullouch should be thrown out for what he did with the Grand Jury
nilesobek
(1,423 posts)and from the looks of it, it happens within seconds, 2 or 3 seconds he gets out of the police car and kills this kid. I can only think he had that in mind when he was driving up, to shoot that kid. Outrageous.
marym625
(17,997 posts)I agree. That's what he planned to do
Dont call me Shirley
(10,998 posts)marym625
(17,997 posts)But we have to do something
Dont call me Shirley
(10,998 posts)These would need to be found and brought to the DOJ. It would take a brave soul to locate and turn these over.
marym625
(17,997 posts)Just outrageous
Dont call me Shirley
(10,998 posts)marym625
(17,997 posts)irisblue
(32,932 posts)is the city of Cleveland trying for more problems?
marym625
(17,997 posts)In the process they are torturing the family
I feel a hate that is blazing
tblue37
(65,227 posts)hope this one will get lost in the shuffle. If the cop(s) are acknowledged to have screwed up, the police department will have to deal with uncomfortable scrutiny, and any admission of fault will bolster the lawsuits that should be coming their way.
marym625
(17,997 posts)Hell, we won't forget. I hope every day that goes by they pay in another million dollars and 100 days in jail. For each person dragging this out
tblue37
(65,227 posts)lousy settlement.
marym625
(17,997 posts)Makes me physically ill.
JustABozoOnThisBus
(23,325 posts)... this sort of thing should be handled by the Ohio State Police. Sheriff and city police might be too cozy.
marym625
(17,997 posts)MoonRiver
(36,926 posts)Apparently cops can now gun down children playing with toy guns and face no consequences.
marym625
(17,997 posts)I am with you. My anger is deep. I can't fathom what his parents and sister are going through
MoonRiver
(36,926 posts)even if they are psychopathic monsters.
marym625
(17,997 posts)Octafish
(55,745 posts)Sometimes it's a sign of corruption.
If so, may a LOT of Cleveland and Cuyahoga's finest end up losing their jobs and pensions and power trips.
I suspect they are trying to get all their ducks in a row while torturing the family. The DoJ already found them to be racist. I am sure there is more going on.
I agree, and I would add their freedom. At least for a while. And the two murderers, for life
blackspade
(10,056 posts)marym625
(17,997 posts)lexington filly
(239 posts)No motivation to talk monitarily or legally. And what's there to say or for anyone to hear when the significant facts are all on video? Little doubt the police are stalling counting on civilian passions cooling. Boy are they spittin' in the wind!
marym625
(17,997 posts)Spitting in the wind. Perfect
You know all these cops that have killed all these kids and haven't been charged and convicted, can make money off their crimes. Another despicable thing I am sure some will do
DashOneBravo
(2,679 posts)IMO they are trying to stretch it out as long as possible.
Both of those guys deserve to be charged. Esp the driver who hot dogged and put a new guy in spitting distance.
marym625
(17,997 posts)Because the driver came so close, you mean?
DashOneBravo
(2,679 posts)In most tactical situations "distance is your friend". The further away you are, the more options you have.
They just rolled up, jumped out and shot
marym625
(17,997 posts)And I am positive that has to be against procedure
mvd
(65,162 posts)It seems awfully quick, and he was just a kid!
But I don't think they will even go to a grand jury.
ManiacJoe
(10,136 posts)The cops have the option of exercising their 5th Amendment rights should any questioning be attempted, which they have most likely done already.
As cops they can be ordered to answer any questions. However, at that point all the testimony becomes coerced and not usable in court. Thus whenever possible, any investigation will take place without any testimony from the accused cops.