Boston in shock over Tsarnaev death penalty

[cali]

interesting article.

<snip>

Outside the courthouse people shook their heads in disbelief.

Mary Duggan, a 28-year-old marketing manager said her reaction was simple: "It's just shock."

The jury's decision has turned liberal Massachusetts upside down.

Most people here oppose the death penalty. A recent poll done by WBUR, for example, shows 60% of voters living in Boston think Tsarnaev should be sentenced to life in prison.

<snip>

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-32762999

[Koinos]

1. Most people in Maryland feel the same way.

O'Malley's success in ending the death penalty in Maryland resonates with many people.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026678270

Personally, I believe the death penalty is barbaric and ineffective as a deterrent.

[Raine1967]

52. I am in Virginia and what Maryland did resonates with me.

I believe the death penalty is simply wrong on every level of humanity.

[PDittie]

2. Death penalty isn't legal in Massachusetts, is it?

Sure that's part of the reaction. But if I lived in Boston, I would be concerned about the "martyr" spin applied to the death sentence by extremists.

[sarge43]

4. No, it isn't. Not since 1984

source: deathpenaltyinfo.org

Was this trial held under federal jurisdiction? If so, the death penalty can be imposed.

[PDittie]

11. The answer to that is yes n/t

[PCIntern]

3. You can make a case that enlightened individuals

might think it's merciful to execute him versus a 60 year stay in solitary confinement. I generally oppose the application of the death penalty ONLY because it is meted out on innocent people more than occasionally.

AFAIC, this little fuck can Go To Hell immediately...they should hear his appeals immediately, give him a fair hearing and then send him on his way.

[KingCharlemagne]

75. Whenever I hear anyone advocating for the death penalty, I feel a strong impulse

Last edited Sun May 17, 2015, 02:13 PM - Edit history (1)

to see it tried on him personally.

With apologies to Abraham Lincoln.

[PCIntern]

79. Very apt...

but there are some transcendental circumstances wherein some of us feel differently.

[Jester Messiah]

5. Too light a penalty.

I want that filthy fuck to suffer with his crimes over a long life spent alone in a dark hole.

[SylviaD]

8. Amen. n/t

[Oktober]

9. Well we don't do that...

... So we get the needle instead.

[DinahMoeHum]

13. +1000s

n/t

[Scootaloo]

55. Really? Why? What does suffering bring?

[Jester Messiah]

74. Punishment, justice, and an object example. [nt]

[Scootaloo]

78. Suffering is not justice. Suffering is a crude punishment. Suffering does not deter others.

[Jester Messiah]

88. Those are certainly three assertions. [nt]

[samsingh]

67. let's be sympathetic and just go with the death penalty

the fear of being executed will drain this fucxxxx

[irisblue]

6. it was a Federal jury.....not state

laws and rules are different.

[sarge43]

7. That answer the question. Fed trumps state. n/t

[SylviaD]

10. I oppose the death penalty in 99% of cases...

...but not in all cases.

Not in this case.

Why?

-No chance he was innocent.
-No remorse.
-The barbarity of the crime(s).
-My own personal anger.

If I'm being honest, I don't mind seeing him executed.

But still against the death penalty for 99%+ of cases.

[Agschmid]

18. Giving up to easily on your own beliefs.

[Logical]

19. Bullshit, either you are against it or for it. You are for it. Nice try. nt

[FLPanhandle]

27. Quoting simpleton George W Bush now?

The world is black or white, you are either for it or against it?

No room for thinking or situational analysis in your world?

[Logical]

30. Nope, not on the DP! Kill or not! Simple! nt

[FLPanhandle]

31. Life isn't simple

Kill or not is a bumper sticker slogan, not a thinking response with logical exceptions.

I bet you are okay with people killing in self-defense.
Are soldiers allowed to kill?
What about assisted suicide?
What about people that consider abortion killing? They would love your simpleton approach.

I'm okay with the DP in specific scenarios and when there is no question of guilt.

It's okay to actually think through each case and situation, but if bumper stickers are how you form your opinions, so be it. We had a president who ran the country like that.

[Logical]

32. "no question of guilt" how clueless are you?

So you think the jury says "well, we will only pick death if we are really really really sure"? LOL, wow, get a clue!

So how would you suggest the judge handle this? Ask the jury "are you really sure?".

Obviously you have not put 10 minutes of thought into this topic. Figures.

You realize about 1 person a year is released form death row? I doubt you know what the Innocence Project is so fucking read about it.

[FLPanhandle]

34. Do you think this guy is innocent?

In this case, there is no doubt of guilt.

I can think about each case independently.

Enjoy your GWB approach to life though.

[Logical]

35. I enjoy you justifying the DP so you feel better. Like I said, name another country that you....

admire that uses it. Japan will probably be your answer I'm sure.

"Yes your honor, we are really really really super duper sure."

You crack me up.

[FLPanhandle]

41. We are talking about this one particular case.

Again, and I'll type it slowly, its about looking at each case individually.

In this case, with the Boston Marathon bomber, the DP is an appropriate penalty.


As for other countries who cares? If I choose my moral arguments based on those around me (being in the bible belt here), I would be anti-abortion. I'm not, I thought about and came to my own conclusion on the topic. That doesn't matter even if all those around me disagree, or this entire country disagreed, or every country disagreed.

Think for yourself. Don't choose your moral stance based on who else agrees with you or disagrees with you.

[FLPanhandle]

43. and a bumper sticker reply

About what I expected based on the depth of your arguments so far.

[cwydro]

86. Why are you so hostile to FLPanhandle?

He/she seems to be discussing the issue in a calm manner, but you're just off the chain here.

I don't know either of you, but surely you don't have to be so disagreeable just to disagree.

[spanone]

21. i oppose the death penalty 1000% of the time

[SylviaD]

25. I am against it when there is the remote chance the person is innocent. n/t

[spanone]

26. 10,000% of the time.

[City Lights]

22. That means you support the death penalty.

I am against the death penalty in all cases.

[SylviaD]

46. I am not. I am only against it in all cases where a mistake could possibly be made. n/t

[Agschmid]

83. Which means you support it.

I don't see how you are missing this... It's pretty clear.

[dbackjon]

73. Peruse The finals of the innocence project

You'll see a number of slam dunk cases that were later found to be false convictions


Do I think this yahoo is innocent? No. But the false convictions happens far too often for me to support the death penalty under any circumstance

[woolldog]

81. I feel the same way. nt

[marym625]

12. It's barbaric

And so is life in prison in the supermax, or whatever it's called.

[irisblue]

14. a question

w/o snark, w/o rancor....he planned on ending the lives of many people that day. He put explosives down behind a kid. That was wrong. How American society respond to that?

[marym625]

15. Sorry,

I am not sure what your question is. How do I think we should respond?

Assuming that is your question, my answer is; he should be put in prison for life with the possibility of parole. Rehabilitation should be tried. He was 19 and under the influence of an older sibling that he admired and looked up to.

The human brain is not even fully mature until about 25 years of age. The possibility that rehabilitation is possible is great.

He should be punished severely. But those supermax (I don't think that's the right word but I can't recall what it is) are inhumane. It's torture plain and simple. And we claim we're better than that, condemning other countries for less.

If rehabilitation isn't possible, then he never gets parole. 30 or 40 years from now we have no idea what the world will be like.

I know I will catch shit for this. I won't respond to any. I believe strongly that a young mind can be changed as much as it can be manipulated by influences around them. And I will never advocate torture or the death penalty.

[NuclearDem]

16. Won't catch any shit from me. That's pretty much my exact opinion on the matter.

Rehabilitation should be the first priority of the criminal justice system, not revenge and punishment.

[marym625]

17. Thank you

Especially for someone under 20.

[polly7]

23. I agree with every word you've said.

What he did was horrible, the worst of the worst, and yet - he's so young, and apparently people spoke of him with regard to his kindness growing up among other things. Something happened to him to change that. Rehabilitation doesn't necessarily mean he'll ever be released - just that possibly he can be made to realize the horror of his actions and maybe eventually give back in some way, even if it is only to others in prison. Those lost in the bombing and aftermath will never be brought back and their families will suffer until their last days with their loss, but even some of them didn't want this.

jmho, as someone completely against the DP.

[marym625]

24. Thank you

I truly do not understand the call for torture and/or death. The former even more than the latter

[christx30]

47. I don't want to see him tortured or killed.

I just want him to know that he will never see the outside of a prison again. Three people are dead. They won't get to do anything else with their lives. Why should their murderer get to have anything else in his life? Sixteen other people lost limbs. They are changed forever because of this selfish idiot.
Prison is a good deterrent to crime. I've been very broke and hungry. The one thing that kept me from stealing is the possiblity of jail.
The idea here is a message. If you engage in this kind of violent foolishness, you will never be free again. You are in jail forever. You will die in your cage, alone and forgotten. Your victims will be remembered. You don't want this to happen to you, don't plant bombs.

[marym625]

48. and if he were 24 or older

I would agree. But he was 19.

[christx30]

49. 19 years old is an adult.

You can vote. You can go to war. You can start a career. He was old enough to make his own decisions.
At 19, I started my job at Dell, and I worked there for 12 years before the economy tanked and we got laid off.
He made his bed, and he got caught. I don't want him executed, but let him rot.

[marym625]

50. I said I would not respond to any shit

I responded because you were not giving me shit. But if this had been your first reply I would not have responded

You can't drink. You can't rent a car. And your brain is not fully formed.

It's more barbaric than what he did. Both scenarios.

[TDale313]

57. I completely oppose the death penalty, but...

I'm not sure how anyone can say it or Supermax (which I also think is inhumane) are *more* barbaric than what he did. He killed and maimed many, many innocent people. It doesn't make killing or torturing him justified, but minimizing his crimes isn't gonna win us the argument.

[marym625]

59. I'm not minimizing his crimes.

And I didn't mean just for him. The supermax (thanks for the right name) torture many people. It is a government sanctioned, government run, torture chamber.

That is what I meant

[marym625]

60. I will add

That the government torturing anyone is barbaric. I don't care what they did. It's wrong. Period

[TDale313]

61. Agreed, totally.

[marym625]

63. Thanks

We are supposed to be a civilized society. Yet Amnesty International, the UN and other countries cite us for human rights violations all the time. Last fall, for the first time in history, Amnesty International was on the ground in the US to document human rights violations to US citizens.

And absolutely nothing is being done to stop it.

[christx30]

66. Putting a murderer in prison

for the rest of his life is more barbaric than the murder of 3 people, including a child, and the maiming of 16 others? Ok.

[marym625]

68. That is not what I said,

There is a difference between the supermax and regular prison.

[phil89]

53. Hope he moves in next door to you

after his rehabilitation. You have to have a backwards morality to foist this person on others and endanger their lives.

[DeadLetterOffice]

56. That was completely unnecessary.

And vile.
Just because you disagree with someone's opinion, you don't need to be nasty.

[phil89]

80. She came up with the scenario, not me.

This person is advocating for eventual rehabilitation for this murderer. Well, guess what, when he gets out he will have to live somewhere, correct? Her attitude is such that it's completely ok to label the murderer rehabilitated at some point and release him on society. I DO hope he moves in next to her in her scenario, because I don't want to live next to him. Your emotional response is not thought out, as she is the one with an view that would endanger more people. Drop the emotion and stop labeling things you haven't thought through as mean.

[Mariana]

87. Lots of murderers have been paroled.

Are you opposed to the concept of parole altogether?

[Fantastic Anarchist]

28. I totally agree with you.

No shit from me.

[marym625]

29. Thank you

I really am glad to see that I'm not alone in this

[BuddhaGirl]

64. "This man is worthless and needs to be hung, drawn and quartered"

That sounds like it comes from someone who lives in a dark, horrid shit-hole of a world, imo.

Ugh.

[IVoteDFL]

38. No shit from me either

In fact I think you are very wise and should be saluted for your strong convictions.

[marym625]

39. Why thank you

Really expected more, uhm, disagreement, and less agreement. So glad it's the opposite. So far anyway

[KingCharlemagne]

77. Bravo! (Brava!) - I salute your forthrightness and self-awareness. - nt

[IL Lib]

91. +1 N/T

[Dem2]

92. You've encapulated my view on this topic to a 'T' /nt

[Logical]

20. How do other progressive countries respond to that? Or do you like China, Iran, etc better? nt

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

33. Here's how Norway dealt with it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anders_Behring_Breivik

On 22 July 2011, Breivik bombed government buildings in Oslo, which resulted in eight deaths.

Within a few hours of the explosion he arrived at Utøya island, the site of a Norwegian Labour Party youth camp, posing as a police officer in order to take the ferry to the island, and then opened fire on the unarmed adolescents present, killing 69. The youngest victim was Sharidyn Svebakk-Bøhn of Drammen, who was 14 years old. Another victim was Trond Berntsen, the step-brother of Crown Princess Mette-Marit (the son of Princess Mette-Marit's late stepfather).

On 24 August 2012 Breivik was adjudged sane and sentenced to containment—a special form of a prison sentence that can be extended indefinitely—with a time frame of 21 years and a minimum time of 10 years, the maximum penalty in Norway. Breivik's lead counsel Geir Lippestad confirmed that his client would not appeal the sentence.

The court stated that "many people share Breivik's conspiracy theory, including the Eurabia theory. The court finds that very few people, however, share Breivik's idea that the alleged 'Islamisation' should be fought with terror."

[Diclotican]

70. Tierra_y_Libertad

Tierra_y_Libertad

And I think 99 percent of the people in Norway was content with the fact - Anders Breivik will never se the light again as a free man - even if he was to finish his sentence he would be kept in containment for the rest of his natural life - as he would possible be a danger to others and to himself even after finishing 21 years in prison..

And from the news who sometimes get out, about how Brick fair in Prison - I think he have yet to understand why he is in prison - and not being a form of prime-minister/minister president - as he have never stated any form of remorse for what he did - rather he have been rather troublesome for the prison guards - and is seen as a specially "high maintenance" person -who often have the ability to wear down even the best prison guards psychically - so he is shuffled between prisons all over the country - as prison guards need time to recoup from him now and then...

In other words - Breivik is utter nuts - even if he was found sane - and therefore is ableminded to be convicted of a horrible crime - he is nuts as woodwork - but still legal sane for some reason..

Diclotican

[SickOfTheOnePct]

40. Not sure why they're shocked

A death-qualified jury in the trial of a man who admits he committed the crime, along with video of him putting the bomb a few feet behind of a group of children, one of whom died just a few minutes later as a result of his actions.

Had they chose 12 random jurors from Boston, a death sentence would be shocking. But a death-qualified jury? No one should be shocked at the outcome.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

69. Good point, the 'deck was stacked' against him.

By automatically weeding out the 60% of folks who don't believe the death penalty is appropriate, you're already making sure the jury is much more likely to hand down such a sentence. Is that truly a 'jury of one's peers'? (Although I'm sure that people will point out that since he's a killer, choosing a jury entirely of other people willing to kill would make it so...)

[SickOfTheOnePct]

71. In a death penalty case

I see nothing wrong with choosing a death-qualified jury. There is no point in choosing a jury that is unwilling to utilize one of the possible sentences.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

72. True, but once you start 'weeding out' people the jury is no longer really representive of

your peers. Admittedly, if tv is accurate, every (criminal at least) jury is like this, with lawyers selecting from a pool.

For a truly representative jury, you'd simply assign jurors at random. Nobody would get weeded out for anything less than mental incompetence and inability to even understand that they were taking part in a trial.

[Eleanors38]

44. I don't support the death penalty. But I'll sleep well tonight.

[elleng]

51. Surprised me too,

especially after Martin's parents plea to not do it.

[roamer65]

54. Would have been same reaction in Michigan.

We were the first western government to end the death penalty in 1847.

I really thought the kid should have been given life in prison without parole so he had a chance to think about his actions and apologize for them.

Now we are just creating another martyr for the ISIS freaks. Just watch, those freaks will make use of his execution in some way.

[Xithras]

58. Anyone who supports the death penalty is no different than Tsarneav, or the freaks who supported him

Murdering "for the good of society", or for justice, or for revenge, is still MURDER. If you support the use of murder to make the world a better place, then the only difference between you and any other terrorist sympathizer is your opinion about what constitutes "better". Remember, according to those who support them, terrorists like Tsarnaev are bringing "justice" to the world.

The death penalty is never justified.

[roamer65]

62. ...and one cannot be a Christian and support the death penalty.

One of the Ten Commandments from God is "thou shall not kill". There are no execeptions to that commandment.
If you support the death penalty, you simply are not and cannot be a Christian.

[harrose]

90. I do not believe that to be correct.

Firstly, the wording in Hebrew is "Lo Tirtzach" which is translated as "do not murder. If it were truly "do not kill," the wording would be "Lo Taharog." Murder is distinct from killing in that murder is the unlawful taking of a life, whereas killing is simply the taking of a life (justified or not).

Secondly, even a cursory reading of the Bible shows that there are numerous sins for which the death penalty is called for. Obviously one can be a Christian and support the death penalty.

Personally, I don't support the DP, but your argument is simply wrong.

[BuddhaGirl]

65. +1

Thank you!

[Jester Messiah]

76. Well, that seems like a well-reasoned, rational position.

If you ignore that in no universe are those things at all alike, and leave the fallacy of false equivalence at the door as well. I know it gives one quite the righteous-fury boner to engage in extremism like that, but one just winds up looking ridiculous.

[Xithras]

85. There's nothing extremist about it at all, and it's the most rational of positions.

If you're OK with killing people to make the world a better place, and THEY are OK with killing people to make the world a better place, then how much actual difference is there between the two sides? Both sides justify their behavior under the color of "justice" and "righteousness". The only difference between the sides are their personal opinions on what a just world actually looks like.

[phil89]

82. What a mindless assertion.

Labeling it "MURDER" doesn't make it so. Grow up.

[Xithras]

84. And labeling it as "JUSTICE" doesn't make it so either.

Both death penalty supporters and terrorist supporters both believe that killing people to "make the world a better place" is acceptable and moral. The only difference between justice and murder are the personal opinions of those carrying it out.

[craigmatic]

89. Well he was an other who practiced another religion and committed a crime that got people killed.

Boston and Massachusetts as a whole isn't as liberal as people think Remember the riots and unrest that followed the forced school desegregation busing in the 70's?