Politics vs Policy

[tech3149]

I expect most of us know that most political decisions are based on emotion and policy decisions should be based on logic based of the positive effect on those considered "important" in the outcome.
There is almost no way of affecting policy if you can't win the political game. As progressives we are not accustomed or skilled at influencing people since it smacks of deception and manipulation, something we would rather not do. But seriously, can we allow the game to be rigged by those that sell half the country on bumper sticker logic without using the same tools to fight fantasy with fact?
We all know Lakoff has a valid point and the Democrats can't seem to put it forward.
For me, the best statement over the last few years has been that Democrats believe in government and find a way to make it work whereas Republicans don't and find a way to assure that.
I guess I'm tired of letting "perception is reality" being the norm. I'd like to find a way to lead people out of Plato's cave and gain a better understanding of the world as it is.

[LWolf]

1. If policy is not the first priority of politics,

I neither need nor want anything to do with politics.

The reason why the political game smacks of deception and manipulation is because it IS all about deception and manipulation. I'm not easily deceived, and I respond to attempts at manipulation with a large push BACK...not with acceptance, compliance, or tolerance.

A worthy goal might be to work to put politics into the correct arena...the policy arena.

A statement to that effect might be that Democrats believe in people and finding a way to bring social and economic justice for all, whereas Republicans believe in a belligerent God, unrestricted aggression and weapons to back up their bullying, and unrestricted greed. God, Guns, and Greed.

If only that statement were true. It's not. The power center of the Democratic Party is all about unrestricted capitalism/greed creating social and economic injustices in the form of neoliberalism.

[woo me with science]

2. Outstanding response.

We drown in corporate message control and political manipulation. Just read down the board.

And once it is called out and undeniable, there will be predictable attempts to rationalize and legitimize and normalize the sliminess. That is how shameless and slimy the sliminess is.

It is like the posts that use the FACT of Wall Street corruption and bribery in Washington as an excuse for *participating* in Wall Street corruption and bribery.

Now, for the first time in a long time, we have a chance to demand better.




Enough slimy. Enough lies. Enough corruption. Enough propaganda.

Enough is Enough.

[LWolf]

3. Thank you. nt

[woo me with science]

4. I think you shut down the thread.

In some ways a shame, because your response was so on point.

It needs to be heard.

[merrily]

7. Jury voted to 0 to 7 to LEAVE IT ALONE

On Mon May 18, 2015, 12:33 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

Outstanding response.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6685216

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

He had the same insults to other DUers hidden and then goes and repeats it. Uncivil, divisive, and rude.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Mon May 18, 2015, 12:43 PM, and the Jury voted 0-7 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Because someone does not like the argument, is not reason to flag it.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: ??????
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: BAD alert.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No calling out of members here. I'm sorry the alerter doesn't seem to understand what it is to be a Democrat.

[MineralMan]

5. Politics is about winning elections. Policy is about governing.

While related, the two things are very, very different. Unless a politician can get elected, he or she can do nothing. So politics are about winning votes, and relate only peripherally to policy.

Policy is what elected officials implement. It's often not what they campaigned about. If it were, our elections would be very different. But, as voters, Americans appear to be more interested in appearance, speaking ability, and promises. We don't seem to care much about ideas, character and determination to get things done.

So, expecting politicians to spend a lot of time on policy matters is expecting too much. They're trying to get votes, not influence the course of events. That means that they focus on politics and the easy subjects that speak to the most voters. You can see that by looking at ratings for television programming that focuses on policies. Then, compare that to programming that focuses on the people running for office. Nobody watches discussions on policy. Well, a few, perhaps, but too few to influence an election.

Confusing politics with policy is a logical error. They're only remotely connected.

[tech3149]

6. Thank You All

I think you all get the gist of my post.
The problem for me is how do we get the majority to get policy into the thinking of those who can affect the politics, Not those who can buy a loud enough voice but real two eyes and two hands voters.
Most of us have probably seen that the majority is in agreement with progressive policies when stripped of any ideological label but will fight tooth and nail against anything not originating from their "tribe".

I spent most of my adult life disconnected from politics because I saw the horrid distortion back in the 60's. The 2000's were a breaking point for me. TPTB were no longer constrained by a sense of modesty that limited their excesses.
MM, I'm not confusing politics with policy, I know the difference. I spent most of my adult life staying away from politics but you can't do one without the other unless we can get past a media that is only too willing to distract or entertain us to death.