The Trojan Horse President

[Segami]

"....Or is he what many of us have feared he is for a while now: a Trojan Horse president, presented at the gates as a progressive gift? Once let in, however, an army of Third-Way "Democrats," multinational corporations, insurance companies, banks and Wall Street masters-of-the-universe were unleashed to wreak havoc, again...."

By William Rivers Pitt

I am not an economist, not even close, but Joseph Stiglitz is. Stiglitz is actually a Nobel Prize winning economist, former Chair of President Clinton's Council of Economic Advisers, and former chief economist for the World Bank. Joseph Stiglitz is positively terrified of the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) deal being pushed rabidly by President Obama. Because he is, I am also frightened by what this "deal" portends.

Joseph Stiglitz

Fundamental to America's system of government is an impartial public judiciary, with legal standards built up over the decades, based on principles of transparency, precedent, and the opportunity to appeal unfavorable decisions. All of this is being set aside, as the new agreements call for private, non-transparent, and very expensive arbitration. Moreover, this arrangement is often rife with conflicts of interest; for example, arbitrators may be a "judge" in one case and an advocate in a related case.

If there ever was a one-sided dispute-resolution mechanism that violates basic principles, this is it. That is why I joined leading U.S. legal experts, including from Harvard, Yale, and Berkeley, in writing a letter to President Barack Obama explaining how damaging to our system of justice these agreements are.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-secret-corporate-takeover-hidden-in-the-tpp-2015-05-13?page=2

At the core of this Nobel Laureate's argument against the TPP deal is the simple fact that legal authority - basic, bedrock legal authority - would be transferred from the sovereign courts of the United States to multinational corporations if this "deal" comes to pass. Note well, also, this statement from Stiglitz: "Though corporations can bring suit, others cannot. If there is a violation of other commitments - on labor and environmental standards, for example - citizens, unions, and civil-society groups have no recourse."

That is utterly intolerable, and it's what the president wants.

~snip~

The funny part came when President Obama dismissed Sen. Warren as just another politician as a means of defusing her criticism. Richard Nixon said, "I am not a crook" while staring into a camera. He was in fact a crook, and President Obama is in fact a politician. A consummate one, if truth be told. Of course Sen. Warren is a politician, but she is endeavoring to do what the president is not: represent the people. The president, for his part, is actively representing the corporations that actually are allowed to read the details of this deal, while the rest of us are not.

~snip~

Stiglitz, Warren, Sanders ... and they are not alone. A very interesting left-right coalition is coalescing around opposition to this mysterious, dangerous, perilous trade deal. The real mystery, however, is why President Obama - in his final years in office - would staple himself to such a divisive and damaging initiative. He has the opportunity to focus on infrastructure repair, an example made vivid by the recent rail calamity in Philadelphia. He could lean into pushing the ACA in Red states that still resist it. Hell, he could go wild and push for what they've done with solar power in Germany, panels right down the sides of the highways, free and open space to do all that green stuff he's been yapping about while approving oil drilling in the Arctic and the Atlantic Ocean.

But no, it's this terrible thing he has chosen for his "legacy."




cont'

http://www.truth-out.org/opinion/item/30815-the-trojan-horse-president

[Cha]

1. Yes, we know.. President Obama is a "fucking pos used car salesman" and now

he's a "Trojan horse". Never mind all the good he has done because that would mess with your agenda and that of those who rec this kind of shite.."If President Obama declared that all firstborns be put to the sword... "

Rolling Stone: Obama Is One Of The 'Most Successful Presidents In History' - Krugman Tells Why

"His health reform is imperfect but still a huge step forward – and it’s working better than anyone expected. Financial reform fell far short of what should have happened, but it’s much more effective than you’d think. Economic management has been half-crippled by Republican obstruction, but has nonetheless been much better than in other advanced countries. And environmental policy is starting to look like it could be a major legacy."

More important, however, polls – or even elections – are not the measure of a president. High office shouldn’t be about putting points on the electoral scoreboard, it should be about changing the country for the better. Has Obama done that? Do his achievements look likely to endure? The answer to both questions is yes."

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/10/12/1336103/-Rolling-Stone-Calls-Obama-Most-Successful-President-In-History-Krugman-Reiterates-In-New-VIDEO

[BeyondGeography]

2. But, Stiglitz!

Krugman also opposes TPP but doesn't think it's a job killer and predicted that the reaction to it (as with all trade deals) would be overblown.

Of course, "overblown," drives website traffic among other things, so we get sterling, spittle-flecked "analysis" such as this.

[Wilms]

5. Krugman: Suspicious Nonsense on Trade Agreements

I am in general a free trader; there is, I’d argue, a tendency on the part of some people with whom I agree on many issues to demonize trade agreements, to make them responsible for evils that have other causes. And my take on both of the trade agreements currently under negotiation — Pacific and Atlantic — is that there’s much less there than meets the eye.

But my hackles and suspicions rise when I listen to the advocates.

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/01/19/suspicious-nonsense-on-trade-agreements/

[bvar22]

185. Krugman was also a big cheer leader for NAFTA.

He blew it then.
If he supports the TPP or TTIP, then he's blowing it again....Big Time.
I thought he was smart enough not to make the same mistakes twice.

[Cha]

9. Yes, "Stiglitz".. likes to throw around terms like "nasty" when talking about the President.. only

he's projecting.

"Of course, "overblown," drives website traffic among other things, so we get sterling, spittle-flecked "analysis" such as this."

Mahalo BG.. Yes, we've seen all before.. Obama is a one man economy booster on both ends of the spectrum.

[Octafish]

86. But, Penny Pritzker!

One can say she's a "Bankster!" or one can say she's in "Finance." Neither does much for me, an old Democrat here in Detroit.



An Interview with Tim Anderson on Obama's Commerce Nominee, Penny Pritzker, the Sub-Prime Queen

The Privilege of the Pritzkers

by DENNIS BERNSTEIN
CounterPunch, May 3-5, 2013

EXCERPT...

TA: $38 billion. One publication listed eight casinos, another listed 13, with each license worth a half a million dollars. There is another $5-7 billion in casinos. When you own 13 casinos for 5-7 billion, you are a player in the casino business. That’s just the hotels and casinos. There are many other companies they own such as the second largest chewing tobacco company, which they sold for 3.5 billion dollars. They actually owned the second and third largest chewing tobacco company, but have since off-loaded those for billions of dollars. Many of their assets are not what society considers clean assets, but hey don’t care. As far as money goes, they want it. When it comes to casinos or chewing tobacco companies, they don’t care. Their wealth is almost incalculable, because according to Forbes magazine, they are the only family in America to have off shore tax-free trusts because they were grandfathered in. Their off shore trust can ship money back to their family tax-free. It was grandfathered in because their grandfather got it through Congress – he was smart to see the future and got it done. Congress closed the loophole and grandfathered him in. Forbesmagazine wrote about the Pritzker’s off shore trust, they emphasized that there are over 1000 separate trusts. Many families have two or three different savings accounts to keep track of what money belongs to who, but when you have over 1000 different trusts to handle the family estate it’s very hard to comprehend how much wealth there is and how many businesses they control. A few years ago, Penny sold TransUnion, the largest credit reporting agency in America, but there’s a question about whether she sold it to herself by selling it to various hedge funds which her family has a large interest in. Until she sold it, you could say that Penny Pritzker had more files on every citizen in America than the CIA and FBI combined, because everybody has a credit score and credit report. Penny Pritzker had the credit scores and report on every single citizen in America.

SNIP...

TA: She had TransUnion while she had Superior Bank, so she controlled the credit scores of everybody who was getting a subprime loan. You pay a higher interest on your subprime loan based on your credit score. Whether or not it was ever brokered between the credit bureau and the bank, we don’t know, but we know the same people control both entities.

SNIP...

TA: Superior Bank was acquired back in 1989 as part of the original savings and loan giveaway by M, D and E Wall. As I wrote a in a paper for an economic conference in Denver, Superior Bank was sold to the Pritzkers for 42.5 million dollars. They changed the name from Lion Savings and Loan to Superior Bank after they acquired it. Lion Savings and Loan was sold to the Pritzkers just to put up money for the capital. But as government reports show, they only put up a million dollars cash and pledged their assets as the difference, the capital. That’s not supposed to be done, but they are privileged people so they get privileged deals. After they acquired this for $1 million they also got $640 million in tax credits.

SNIP...

TA: The tax credits were designed so they could use it in any entity they wanted. They didn’t have to use it on what they bought. It could be sold on the open market for value, the credits could be used to file back taxes or warehouse them for future taxes. So for a million dollars, they got 640 million dollars for agreeing to take over Superior Bank, which they then looted for years then gave it back to the government with an enormous loss to the uninsured depositors and the whole subprime industry.

CONTINUED...

http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/05/03/the-privilege-of-the-pritzkers/

PS: I don't have anything against Ms. Pritzker or rich people, per se. I'd just like to see the Democratic Party and Washington DC return to helping the People rather than Wall Street. For a change.

[arikara]

162. Just one of the people he appointed

he started with those questionable appointments just as soon as he was elected. Banksters and corporate shills.

[Octafish]

212. It is amazing. When money's involved, he goes Wall Street every time.

From the Inspector General for TARP, who noted why, for the non-paupers in spirit, a pot of gold awaits...

Neil Barofsky Gave Us The Best Explanation For Washington's Dysfunction We've Ever Heard

Linette Lopez
Business Insider, Aug. 1, 2012, 2:57 PM

Neil Barofsky was the Inspector General for TARP, and just wrote a book about his time in D.C. called Bailout: An Insider Account of How Washington Abandoned Main Street While Rescuing Wall Street.

SNIP...

Bottom line: Barofsky said the incentive structure in our nation's capitol is all wrong. There's a revolving door between bureaucrats in Washington and Wall Street banks, and politicians just want to keep their jobs.

For regulators it's something like this:

"You can play ball and good things can happen to you get a big pot of gold at the end of the Wall Street rainbow or you can do your job be aggressive and face personal ruin...We really need to rethink how we govern and how regulate," Barofsky said.

CONTINUED... http://www.businessinsider.com/neil-barofsky-2012-8

"Integrity is for paupers." -- traditional saying, Wall Street-on-the-Potomac

OTOH, there are appointments which are pure genius, such as appointing JFK's daughter to Tokyo, about 100 miles from Fukushima. They both are brave, although for different reasons, of course.

PSSSST! Wall Street Pays Bankers to Work in Government and It Doesn't Want Anyone to Know

[swilton]

274. It was just in finance

there were neo-con holdovers in the State Department and Defense as well - i.e., Victoria Nuland, a former advisor to Dick Cheney (only an undergraduate degree btw) has run the NATO show as well as that in Ukraine - then there's SECDEF Robert Gates...to name but a few....

Trojan Horse - Tony Blair was equally damaging to Labour Party - served 1997-2007. Defined himself as 'New Labour' and split with the normally socialist tilt of the Labour Party..Supported the wars in Afghanistan (2001) and Iraq (2003) against strong opposition from his constituents. Maintained Margaret Thatcher's anti trade union legislation. The left wing of the Laobur Party, led by Tony Benn (1925-14) has not recovered.

[paleotn]

3. Interestingly, you didn't once address TPP.....

.....Ok, back to your blind worshiping of Obama the great and powerful....

[Hoyt]

6. Sure she did, by pointing out that Pitt believes Obama is a POS.

Last edited Mon May 18, 2015, 06:11 AM - Edit history (1)

That should make one question the entire blog.

[Cha]

16. Hey Aloha, Hoyt.. I's a she.. :) It comes down to this..

President Obama has earned my trust over the years.. those who write hate-filled
"pos".. none at all.

[Hoyt]

17. I'll do my best to remember, tough these days.

[Cha]

23. that's okay.. a lot of peeps around here. And, yeah, it is kinda tough

to remember Every single thing!

[Damansarajaya]

192. Of course, he (Will Pitt) didn't call Obama a POS . . .

Last edited Mon May 18, 2015, 03:41 PM - Edit history (1)

That's a classic example of the straw man fallacy, distort Will Pitt's argument and attack the distortion instead of the real argument.

The real argument is this: the TPP is a POS. So why is Obama in a death-match to pass it?

It doesn't make sense and is not consistent with Candidate Obama's positions.

So, Trojan horse president is a very good analogy imho.

[Spazito]

204. Actually, the author of the article in the OP DID call the President...

a "piece of shit used car salesman" in another piece he wrote here. Cha was correct.

[Damansarajaya]

247. I was referring to Will Pitt, the actual author of the piece.

Not the poster who posted it here.

[Spazito]

253. It was Will Pitt calling the President...

a "piece of shit used car salesman" in a previous writing. I made that abundantly clear by stating "the author of the article in the OP". You have been provided a link in post #210, you might want to peruse it. Mr. Pitt deleted his screed, belatedly, but reading the thread will give you quotes of his 'work'.

[Cha]

301. Mahalo, Spazito, for clueing the poster in.

[Egnever]

210. Sure he did

You might have missed it since he went back and deleted it but here is his thread just the same. http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024685964#post9

[Damansarajaya]

248. Will Pitt called Obama a POS?! Surely, he didn't.

I'm not that concerned with an anonymous poster on a big discussion board.

[SidDithers]

263. Yes, Will Pitt's exact quote was...

"Fuck you, Mr. President, you piece of shit used-car salesman. From my heart and soul, fuck you."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024685964

Sid

[Damansarajaya]

272. Sorry, all I see is a self-deleted post. nt

[Adrahil]

397. Oh he said it alright. LOTS of us saw it. n/t

[immoderate]

283. Isn't it the used car that is being so derogated there?

I mean, if you omit used-car for a moment, then what is he selling?

--imm

[Hekate]

328. Hahahahaha. Sorry, WP said exactly that, and his trenchant analysis got hundreds of replies.

I'm surprised he self-deleted -- he was quite proud of it, and the OP survived a couple of Alerts.

[Andy823]

157. Exactly!

Pure BS all the way, it speaks volumes about the actual agenda of the Author.

[Damansarajaya]

249. What's the BS? Go ahead. We'll wait . . . nt

[treestar]

35. Who do you support?

Anything positive about anyone? I'd like to know who you support not just who you would tear down?

[Agschmid]

36. Likely Warren, but I'd like to know too...

[840high]

219. ...^ that

[George II]

262. The TPP hasn't been finalized OR signed. Obama has been President for more than SIX years....

....did he spend the last six plus years doing NOTHING, just waiting for the TPP?????

[Maraya1969]

287. +1,000

Last edited Tue May 19, 2015, 02:17 PM - Edit history (1)

I agree with you 1,000% (Sorry if I messed up the text that sounded like I was not agreeing with you)

Millions of people who would have died from no health care are now covered and receiving care.

From a high of 18% of Americans not having health insurance to a now low of 11% is what Obamacare has done.

To the OP and it's supporters - Perhaps you might want to think of all the people that are not dead or suffering because of the ACA before you open your mouth again about how bad a president Barack Obama has been. And you can add to that the ban he just enacted causing the pentagon from sending military guns and other war items to our police department.

And that is just the biggest thing. The list is very long of all the good things this president has done. For people to line up to get a bad word in is just bad Karma.

[hfojvt]

338. you might want to notice

that George II is actually agreeing with you, and asked a rhetorical question

before you write nasty things like "you might want to think ... before you open your mouth again".

I know it is easy to get carried away in the moshe pit of GD, but ...

[Maraya1969]

373. I put a +1,000 which means I liked what the person I was replying to said.

I made a mistake by not indicating who I was referencing when I told the person that they should keep their mouth shut if they don't know everything about the subject.

Thank you for pointing that out. I fixed the post and I'll pm the author.

[BeanMusical]

326. Blind worshiping is an understatement.

[Sobax]

377. +1

[Hoyt]

4. +1.

[billhicks76]

7. Republicans Love You

Doing their work for them...good job!!!!

[Hoyt]

8. And Tbaggers agree with you.

[billhicks76]

14. Deflect Much?

You're ridiculous. You support TPP like most Republicans and a few Democrats. I point out that fact and you say Teabaggers support me? Please do explain. And please take the same time and diligence you do like when you make it your priority to persuade us TPP is just fine and we need to support it. If it won't have much effect then why do you constantly make it your #1 issue? Yeah I'm a Teabagger for being anti-corporate, anti-fascist left wing...that's a real winner you coined there.

[Agschmid]

18. The far left and the far right are closer than you think...

Think of the political spectrum as a circle, it's a pretty accurate representation.

[billhicks76]

26. There Is No Equivalence

There is no far left represented in politics. The far left would be extreme Marxism or groups like the Weather Underground. And that's just obfuscation to equate the far right with progressives. Typical corporate divide and conquer tactic. We have to speak and loudly here. Corporations have unlimited money to pay people to post their talking points and they do as part of their campaigns. Dismissing or diminishing progressives is the sin...not speaking up for average Americans.

[Agschmid]

28. I'm not dismissing progressives...

But you are wrong here there is a point where they meet... And the more polarization there is the closer they come to meeting.

[greatauntoftriplets]

118. Amen.

[sabrina 1]

133. You're talking about extremists and the words 'left' 'right' do not apply to extremists. That word

alone is enough to describe irrational people.

I see nothing extreme about the American people simply asking for transparency about a huge piece of legislation that is going to affect their lives for generations.

THAT is a simple request. Yet, it is being denied.

So, WHY is this happening? Is every credible person, elected official, Union leader, dozens of advocacy organizations, are all of these people EXTREMISTS for questioning the Presidents behavior ie, attacking them all, including some of our best Democrats, over this?

What are all these people doing wrong by simply asking that a huge piece of legislation NOT by pushed into law without Congress having a chance to change anything in it that is harmful to the American people?

[xocet]

198. A brief aside: What does it mean that they meet? In what sort of model can it be seen...

that left and right political principles/positions overlap as they become more representative of a left or right ideal? Or do I misunderstand the situation to which is being referred?

Many people talk of this sort of a convergence, but it does not seem to be more than a rhetorical construction. What do you think?

[Jamastiene]

363. The supposed "extreme" left, which is anyone left of Reagan,

in their view, does not agree with the extreme right. The idea that politics is a circle is only brought out to shut the left up. Notice they never try to shut the right up, only the left. In reality, the left and the right disagree on everything. It's the middle that shifts and changes to suit whatever they are in the mood for at the time. They can literally lick their finger, stick it in the air and see which way the wind is blowing, then follow it for popularity.

And for some odd reason, they are pushing the TPP like it is THE most important piece of legislation of Obama's entire presidency. They will steamroll over anyone who gets in their way too.

The truth is that the positions held by the left and the positions held by the right do not converge. They are the opposite.

[xocet]

374. Thanks for your comments. I agree that there is no convergence of values for left and right.

I had hoped that the above, current proponent of the circle doctrine would attempt to explain his/her internally inconsistent doctrine. However, this poster's doctrine turns out not to be externally consistent either:

In 18., the doctrine presents the political spectrum as a circle.
In 28., polarization drives the convergence.
In 122., the doctrine presents the political spectrum as a " big ole' " circle.
In 236., the doctrine changes to present the political spectrum as a horseshoe.

This seems to be equivalent to trolling the thread instead of discussing anything.

Oh well....

[Enthusiast]

273. +1 You nailed it.

[raouldukelives]

93. And the far right and the center are even closer.

Think of our political spectrum as literally being financed and controlled by corporate money.
Then imagine who does the most to increase the bottom line of corporations.
Congrats, you have just found the people most closely aligned with far right political ideology, or at the very least, those who do the most to bring it to fruition.

[Sobax]

378. +1

[merrily]

106. Few at DU are actually far left. And there is no reason to think of the political spectrum as a

circle, rather than as a continuum.

Criticizing Obama because he is too center right is not the same as criticizing him because he supposedly is a "socialist."

the left is right meme is both silly and transparent.

[Dragonfli]

142. I have met a few thoughtful Communists here, so farther left is represented a bit, however

They are not terribly numerous and tend to stay in their groups for the most part. Also, having met many different brands of Communists and Socialists IRL, the ones that post here are not what I would call extreme. The Idea that the extremes meet in a "circle" is absurd. Communist philosophy and fascist philosophy are not by any stretch similar, if the circular argument were valid, they would be, but in truth they are completely opposed in their views on Capital. The same could be said of the Authoritarian versus the libertarian extremes (and I am not referring to the US libertarian party, but in the broad sense)

People that claim the extremes meet in a circular fashion are not thinking very clearly.
At least, I can not follow the logic in any clear way if it could even be said to be based on any sort of logic.

[merrily]

143. Few indeed.

Thanks for a thoughtful post.

[Enthusiast]

278. What about the professional left?

[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]

[merrily]

334. Even the left of the left of the Democratic Party is not that far left. Even the liberal r word

people are not that far left.

[Enthusiast]

349. I know.....

I actually believe in well regulated capitalism.

[merrily]

350. I think the vast majority of DUers do.

[Enthusiast]

353. We're not wild eyed commies! Mostly.

[merrily]

382. Delayed reaction: Isn't the "professional left" anyone who makes money by being left?

And doesn't that include everyone at the WH? Not only people who make money as Democratic pundits, MSNBC anchors, etc?

This is like politicians on the right yelping about people sucking off the government teat while taking home a paycheck signed, often sacrificially, by John and Jane Q. Public.

[Enthusiast]

387. I believe the first time I heard the term professional left was when the President

was being snarky toward Democrats for disagreeing with him on one thing or another. I cannot remember the issue now. Essentially the President was scolding someone on the left for being too left or not moderate (Republican) enough. IIRC.

Maybe it wasn't the President. It might have been Emanuel or one of the other snakes.

[Jamastiene]

364. Well, they see any of us who are left of Reagan as the "far left" or

"extreme" left. So, that gives you some idea why they claim what they claim. My question is why do they blindly believe in the TPP and want the rest of us to follow them like lemmings? If you debate them on it, it all comes down to "you never loved him" or "ponies" or "racist." In other words, they cannot stand that someone might ever disagree with Obama on even a single issue.

[merrily]

366. I have no explanation.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

110. And the far right of the Democratic Party is far closer to Republicans in general than the far left.

So they don't have any room to talk. At this point in time, it's more like a line bent in half to a narrow angle. The ones in the middle are far closer together, but the ones at either end aren't as far apart as they would be if the line was straight.

[Agschmid]

122. It's a big ole' circle, I'll have to do an OP on this.

[ozone_man]

151. It really isn't.

The best representation I've seen is the two dimensional political spectrum, or political compass, which is continuous and does not wrap around in a circle. When the far left and far right appear to have common views, it is almost always in their libertarian views. Trade deals and foreign wars are very authoritarian, so you'll see a lot of common ground there, where Noam Chomsky sounds a lot like Ron Paul. All you have to do to see the differences between these two types is talk about nationalized health care, education, environment, regulation of Wall Street.

So, when it comes to TPP, Obama or Hillary Clinton will sound like most authoritarian Republicans, maybe indistinguishable, but on feminism, human rights, and such, they sound liberal. Warren and Sanders relative to them are libertarian and left.

[Enthusiast]

279. It's nothing of the kind.

[merrily]

354. Two people attend the same lecture. One claims the lecture was far too long. The claims it was

far too short. Both are critics of the same lecture, yet the two critics are direct opposites when it comes to their views of the length of the lecture.

And, yes, the center right of the Democratic Party is far more like the political right than is the left of the Democratic Party.

What will happen with your OP: The same DUers who currently claim left is right will love it.

[Jamastiene]

365. Well, that makes sense.

Circles do bend over backwards and spin better than straight lines. It fits with the "anyone who is left of Reagan is an extreme leftist" narrative.

[sabrina 1]

132. What is good about the TPP? Why should we support it? That's all nearly every credible group, union

individual, Democrat and economist in the country wants to know.

And what we get from this president, is attacks on just about everyone who is asking for what the American people have a RIGHT to under our current system of government.

All he has to do to prove we should trust him and not all of those other people, is to allow the American people to see what it is that he is telling us is so great.

Until and unless he does this, his attacks on decent people, including our Reps in Congress who are doing their jobs on our behalf, then he can expect to be criticized like this. Because contrary to what he appears to believe, no, the American people are not stupid.

[woo me with science]

392. I bookmarked this post when you wrote it.

I knew there would be crickets.

[Damansarajaya]

193. Completely wrong.

The TEA party stands for Taxed Enough Already. We progressives rightly see historically low taxation of the rich as a major reason the middle class is evaporating before our eyes.

"The extreme left and right are the same" is a mainstream media platitude so they can continue to tout the only position they're paid to care about--the corporate position.

[Agschmid]

213. That isn't the only political issue, is it?

[Damansarajaya]

252. No, there's also

gay marriage RW against LW for

higher taxes on corporations RW against LW for

public money for public schools only RW against LW for

equal pay for equal work RW against LW for

unions RW against LW for

policing the out of control police RW against LW for

more legal immigration RW against LW for

fair trade instead of free trade RW against LW for

more money for public education RW against LW for

less money for wasteful military spending RW against LW for

legalize pot RW against LW for

reduce number of people in prison RW against LW for

raise the minimum wage RW against LW for

women's choice for abortion rights RW against LW for

public funds to help the homeless RW against LW for

. . . . you're right, there are a few more . . . other than that, the right and left wing are just alike.

[progressoid]

234. On what issues are the far left and the far right the same?

There may be a couple issues that a couple people agree on, but that is true across the entire political spectrum. As a group however, that doesn't hold true.

[Agschmid]

236. Horseshoe theory.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_theory

[progressoid]

261. So now it's a horseshoe rather than a circle.

And the example given is... Korea.

OK. I'm convinced! We're Korea. *sarcasm*

A few years ago the Sierra Club had a bit of an internal crisis when many members were opposed to immigration from the south. They argued that because immigrants from Central and South America tended to have large families, these large families would do more damage to the environment simply by becoming high consuming Americans (since we are the world's leader in per capita environmental damage). Does that mean these Sierra Club members were aligned with the Minutemen Project? NO. Their motives and tactics are completely different. Some of them simply had one overlapping goal.



I prefer the political compass even though it lacks some finesse.

[merrily]

355. And a THEORY anyway. And the horseshoe theory has nothing to do with

both the right and the left end of the horsehoe criticizing the same person for different reasons, while the center thinks he can do no wrong.

Other than that....

[Enthusiast]

277. The Righties® always say that.

[Hoyt]

22. Tbaggers are against TPP too, ya know .

[billhicks76]

30. BS

It's not even on their radar. But keep trying. If you haven't already I bet you could land a good job as a TPP lobbyist or PR director. But please entertain us with the links to the Tea Party movement against TPP. They definitely need an issue that's a winner and maybe they can steal it from Hillary and Jeb like they could with cannabis legalization as fools in our party let them.

[Agschmid]

33. Democrats working with Tea Party to defeat trade deal.

Rep. David Young, an Iowa Republican, was recently at a Des Moines event commemorating the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. when he was buttonholed by an activist urging him to vote against giving President Obama trade-promotion authority—aka fast track—to allow him to expedite a giant new Asia-Pacific trade deal, the issue where Obama and congressional GOP leaders seem most likely to come to agreement this year. The activist, Matthew Covington, urged Young to beware of the executive overreach that Obama would be engaging in if he secured fast-track powers. “I said, ‘This is such a large trade deal and the Constitution gives Congress the authority to regulate that, not the president. This would give the authority to the president. But we elected you to give you that authority, to see what’s in this trade deal, to make sure it doesn’t jeopardize Iowa values,’ ” recounted Covington.

That sounds like a garden-variety pitch from a grass-roots constitutional conservative. Except Covington is no Tea Partier. He is an organizer with a 40-year-old progressive organization called Iowa Citizens for Community Improvement that has made its name in recent years fighting factory farming, payday lending, and wage-theft; is closely tied to labor unions; and last year hosted Sen. Bernie Sanders, the Vermont socialist, for a barnstorming tour of Iowa. The organization, like many others on the left, is opposed to granting Obama fast-track authority, which requires Congress to vote on trade deals with an up or down vote, and to the huge new 12-nation trade deal, the Trans-Pacific Partnership. Covington worries that the TPP will undermine U.S. wages and manufacturing, as many Americans believe NAFTA did, while also giving multinational corporations new powers to run roughshod over U.S. food safety and environmental regulations.

To try to block fast track and the TPP, liberal groups and labor unions are not organizing only among their own but are also reaching across the spectrum to conservatives skeptical of fast track and TPP. This left-right alliance has been duly noted in recent months. What has gone underappreciated, though, is just how much the opponents of the trade deals on the left are appealing to the right very much on the right’s own terms. After years of ridiculing the Tea Party movement’s talk of Obama as an autocrat on issues such as immigration and health care, the left is now pushing those very buttons on trade, noting that fast track would give Obama vast powers and that the TPP would create a new international arbitration panel where corporations could challenge local, state, and national laws. Some left-leaning advocates are going so far as to link the trade issue to the conservative litany of Obama outrages: the IRS scrutiny of Tea Party groups, Benghazi, and the “Fast and Furious” gun-running fiasco, among others.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2015/02/democrats_working_with_tea_party_against_obama_s_trade_deal_the_president.html

[billhicks76]

43. No One Named

Did you read the article? Democrats are looking for support among populists. But it names no one Tea Party politician who is against TPP. But it does say Rand Paul and Ted Cruz support it because their support for multinational corporations and no regulation trumps their constitutional concerns regarding sovereignty. So that's a poor link to post. As a caveat I will say I'm still against illegal wars and mass incarceration even if a Tea Partier agrees.

[Agschmid]

47. Okay another...

And I'm just using Google, so feel free to do some leg work as well...

Last week in this space, Bill Watson of the Cato Institute claimed that the Tea Party supported so-called free trade. It is always amusing to have people who are not a part of the Tea Party movement tell people who are in the Tea Party movement what the Tea Party movement believes and supports.

The Tea Party movement does not support the Trans-Pacific Partnership.

http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/foreign-policy/198942-trade-and-the-tea-party-washington-insiders-remain

[Cha]

128. HaHa.. thanks for using the goog! "The Tea Party movement does not support the TPP."

[billhicks76]

164. Ok But Still No Reps Or Candidates Mentioned

[markpkessinger]

228. How about Democrats working with Mitch McConnell to pass the TPP n/t

[progressoid]

275. +1

Apparently that doesn't count.

[Enthusiast]

280. It's not relevant.

[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]

[certainot]

320. some are because some of their talk radio gods are

[merrily]

357. Most teabaggers eat food every day. Do YOU eat food every day?

[orpupilofnature57]

12. Seeing the truth is not their Job, and beating up critics won't get Her

Elected .

[Cha]

21. Yeah, "republicons love you" Hoyt for not thinking President Obama is a Trojan Horse.. see

how that works?

[Agschmid]

29. I'm pretty sure Hoyt voted for Bush.

Twice...

[Cha]

39. yeah, republicons just love him.. he's their guy. :P

[Agschmid]

41. I'm doing a cheer in my head...

Hoyt, Hoyt, he's our (man?)

Lol.

[billhicks76]

34. I Said Nothing About Trojan Horses

I'm talking about TPP and I'm not blindly following Obama like Bush followers followed their hero. Think for yourself and question authority. If you can't do that then what good are you? This reminds me of the whole NSA debate. People who followed the facts instead of leaders were dismayed. Those whose allegiance was first and foremost to a personality scolded people to get in line and just accept the way things are.

[treestar]

37. Who do you blindly follow?

Elizabeth?

[Cha]

40. LOL

treestar

[billhicks76]

46. Wow...The Smug Anti-Warren Crowd Surfaces

Keep patting yourselves on the back. You deserve a "I Support TPP T-Shirt".

[Agschmid]

48. I helped get Warren elected.

It's a legit question, who is going to not be a "trojan horse".

[billhicks76]

57. Treestar Made Fun Of Warren

No one should be immune from satire but calling Warren's supporters blind followers? I would question her if she said or enacted anything foolish but I've yet to see it...at least since she saw the light a few years ago and decided to stick up for what's right instead of what will get her big speaker fees in the future.

[treestar]

65. Yeah you blindly follow anyone you support

We've put up with it for 7 years. It's your turn.

[sheshe2]

134. +1!

[billhicks76]

169. BS

And makes no sense. I actually look at facts and reality. You are the follower. And kind of sickening actually. As long as their is a D next to their name you will follow them no matter who Vichey or Bush beloving or torturous or surveilling or imprisoning they are. You have dragged our party to the center where many of them are no different than 1980s republicans. Fail.

[treestar]

356. You would defend Bernie if he ate cats

Elizabeth Warren could imprison small children and you'd actually defend her. Sickening.

[cui bono]

295. Odd. That's not what he said at all.

But don't let that stop you.

Or your cheerleader.

The body of your post made no sense what so ever.

[hfojvt]

341. yeah it did

it's based on past bad blood.

Myself, I flip-flopped in this long running war.

For the first two years, I tried to defend Obama from his attacks. And boy, did the Obama critics seem obnoxious. They didn't want to discuss rationally, they just wanted to poke people in the eye with a stick.

Then Obama crossed my Rubicon, and now I struggle to say something nice about him. And boy does it seem like the Obamabots are obnoxious.

Point is, a lot of people are being poked in the eyes with sticks. It's easy to notice when it is your eye, harder to notice when it is your allies poking other people in the eye.

The body of the text was making the point that for years here on DU critics of Obama have been calling supporters of Obama "blind cheerleaders" simply because they were supporters. Heck it started even in the primaries when the derisive term "Obamabot" was used by many Clinton supporters to talk about Obama supporters.

[cui bono]

376. But it had nothing to do with the post they responded to and made no sense because of that.

If treestar's feelings are hurt because of the OP they should get a grip or stay out of the thread, but to make odd posts like that that don't follow any logic is sad and pathetic. You can't let emotions get the best of you. If you adore a politician so much that it hurts you to see criticism of them then you've gone way to far with your adoration. This is politics and Obama is a politician. And he's selling the people of the USA out and he lied to us about a lot of things.

[treestar]

358. Disgusting you would support Bernie

considering his gun votes. What blind adoration. You should be making posts condemning him for that. And saying its a deal breaker.

[cui bono]

375. Why should I make the posts you tell me to make?

Again, your post makes absolutely no sense.

Why are you even bringing any of that up? There is no logic to that or the post of yours that I initially responded to. If there is, please explain it to me. I'm not following.

[Agschmid]

72. Every politician or for that matter even Britney Spears...

Has blind followers, don't be offended by that term. It's just a fact.

[geek tragedy]

100. What is the origin of this incredibly idiotic theory that Obama is making policy

decisions based on speaking fees in the future? Other than hatred of the President that is.

[billhicks76]

170. Referring To Clintons

[cui bono]

296. Yeah, seriously. I mean it couldn't possibly have anything to do with his pandering to banksters

and big corporations.

Talk about idiotic.

[sheshe2]

237. Is it okay to call this President a POS!? nt

[Cha]

54. All you have are insults. So you got nothin'

[Agschmid]

123. When I posted an article to discredit what they said...

I got crickets.

Go figure.

[billhicks76]

171. Those Articles Were Weak

No reps entwined not one. Crickets is right.

[Agschmid]

176. Took you long enough.

[sheshe2]

141. Really, broadbrush much?!

Wow...The Smug Anti-Warren Crowd Surfaces

I helped get Warren elected. I met and talked to the woman, I am not about to follow her blindly.

[billhicks76]

172. I Support Warren 100%

[Enthusiast]

282. Me too.

[Hekate]

336. But isn't supporting a politician 100% actually being a "blind follower"? So confusing...

...or does that kind of thing only apply to Obama supporters?

[billhicks76]

344. It Blind When

You become an ostrich with your head in the sand unable to face simple facts much like Republicans that live in a bubble. It's blind following when you act like a lemming following leaders off a cliff. I think Warren has proved herself with more than just speeches...especially since she doesn't covet the status and fame of the highest office. The so-called Democrats that are pushing intensely for TPP are an embarrassment to progress and positive change. They complain, "But, But our favorite Democrat and 99% of Republicans said TPP is good." Gullibility never ceases to amaze me. Try reading Warren's response to Obama's desperate attacks. http://www.warren.senate.gov/files/documents/BrokenPromises.pdf

[Hekate]

352. Uh huh. She was a professor, iirc, then OBAMA tried to appoint her into his government...

...to set up a department exactly tailored to HER pet issues, which Obama actually supports or he wouldn't have tried to appoint her, right? which Congressional GOP would not allow, so OBAMA had her working on an interim appointment setting up the department regardless, until he could get someone to run it that Congress would allow however grudgingly.

With all of that governmental experience and name recognition under her belt thanks to OBAMA, she ran for the Senate and won.

Remember any of that?

[merrily]

359. No it isn't the same.

[Agschmid]

180. +1

[ucrdem]

44. Thread win on post 1.

[Cha]

50. Hey you!

Mahalo ucr..

[ucrdem]

59. If I uttered one word of what I'm thinking

this would be our last goodbye

[Cha]

69. ..

I rewrote my post a few times.. a lot of words got tossed on edit.

Feel much better about it.. learn-ing.

[sheshe2]

136. I agree ucrdem.

[ucrdem]

207. Sad isn't it?

Some people still don't get it after having it patiently explained to them for six years.

p.s.

[mopinko]

61. second this thread win.

yawn. most shit stirring from a hater.

[Cha]

64. Hey Mo~

Agree.

[mopinko]

74. hey honey

was surprised he didnt post it himself. hmm.

[ucrdem]

66. Jury results on OP:

2-5. Guess we're stuck with a horse in the house for a few days. . . .

[Cha]

79. the "fucking pos used car salesman" didn't get a hide.. why would this? I wouldn't alert on

this drivel.. it's just more of same kind of rampant, ignorant propaganda that the majority of DU salivates over.

It's such an honor to be in the minority.

[geek tragedy]

102. "Keep Obama's hands off my Obamacare." nt

[840high]

220. Excellent.

[sheshe2]

238. You make me laugh, ucrdem :)

To bad about the jury though

[MannyGoldstein]

81. Obviously, calling the President that during a time of pain

when a loved one is facing a medical crisis is horrific. Unforgivable!

But policies that will further increase the number of children who need to live in used cars, that's a wonderous thing whose greatness we're almost unworthy of.

Noted.

[geek tragedy]

95. It is evidence of personal hatred, which runs in each and every one of this

author's pieces on President Obama. The author has a deep, burning personal hatred for the President such that he will express that hatred regardless of whether the President has done anything wrong. As was the case in the infamous POS used car salesman episode, for which a half-apology was given.

Some sources are not capable of writing fairly on certain subjects.

[Dr Hobbitstein]

233. You mean blaming the President for something that WASN'T his fault

during a "time of pain", and when corrected, refusing to delete the OP?

Used cars, indeed.

[MannyGoldstein]

288. I think you just demonstrated my point. nt

[madokie]

85. You know

Cha just because a person has a gift for writing does not a smart man make. I say the hell with the author of yet another of his hit pieces on President Obama and the white horse he rode in on. I gave up on reading what the man has to say a long time ago as he lets hatred guide him. I'm not interested in reading hate and it matters not who writes it. I remember when he was tombstoned here on a couple occasions but for some reason was allowed to return each time. No one else have I seen this been extended too. I've been here a long time and I pay attention.


My gut feeling is the hate goes a lot deeper than the policies of President Obama alone. IMHO
When was the last time this author had anything good to say about our President? I don't personally know as I don't read garbage such as this hit piece posted here and it was because of what was written that made me make that decision quiet some time back.

Just calling a spade a spade, is all

Peace

[Cha]

92. Peace to you, madokie.

I usually trash the hit "pos" but I decided I needed to respond to this one.

"Trojan Horse".. and now is when I stop talking because I would get a hide. too bad I can't say what I really think.. but, here we are. They can say any piece of shite thing they want about the President but we can't tell them what we think of them. Damn! lol

[madokie]

101. Spot on

I'm taking a chance but I felt I had to say what I typed due to fairness.

Have a great day.

[Cha]

105. I know..

we take our little chances when necessary.

Throw caution to the wind.. what the heck!

Mine is sweet dreams.. you have a great day!

[freshwest]

384. +1

[madokie]

386. Trojan horse president my aching ass

A lot of things he might be but a trojan horse or a use car salesman are not any of them. Its hate brought on mostly by the color of his skin. I don't read the author of this article linked to in this OP because of his almighty know it all bullshit. as I said earlier just because a person can write tripe such as was linked to does not a smart person make.

[geek tragedy]

94. Drop the mic. Haters gonna hate.

People like the author blame Obama if they stub their toe at night.

[Cha]

103. "Thanks Obama.. you trojan horse!" Rofl

[geek tragedy]

104. "Obama ruined Obamacare!" nt

[LWolf]

126. The stupidest meme ever:

"haters."

It ignores the destruction of REAL hate to defend a pov or a political person from a place of denial and emotion rather than reason and evidence.

Hate is a word over-used in modern culture, when "oppose," or "don't support," or "don't prefer," or "prefer other" would be more accurate. It diminishes the term and distracts from the true hate going on in the world.

[Spazito]

124. Exactly!

To think I once thought the author of the OP article had credibility, was worth reading, yikes. Excellent response to the shit flinging OP, Cha!

[Cha]

127. Mahalo Spazito~ And, just to say I think "brush" got a bad hide. Just need to put

"pos of shit used car salesman" in quotes. Wouldn't want anyone to get the wrong idea that we think "the author" is what he flings at the President.

[Spazito]

129. Hey Cha!

Yes, one should be able to critique the author of an article posted on DU without getting a hide, sadly that is not the case when it comes to certain authors.

[sheshe2]

135. Me thinks, the author doesn't

like the President much. Let me think a moment, hmmmmm, got it! He called the President a POS used car salesman. Now a Trojan horse.



Thanks for the link to the KOS, Cha.

[SCantiGOP]

138. I really thought "Trojan Horse"

Was going to allege that he was a foreign-born Muslim, the bastard son of Malcolm X.

I am a Democrat, and I support our President. EOM.

[Doctor_J]

244. Err...what?

I am a Democrat, and I support our President. EOM.

So are hundreds of Congress who abhor the TPP. So you don't support them, so by your "logic" you're not a Dem.



Moonbat personality cult alert

[fadedrose]

139. Trojan Horse

Last edited Mon May 18, 2015, 01:02 PM - Edit history (1)

Oh Cha...so sorry.

This was a response to the OP, but your reply #1 and others got me mixed up and I sent it to you instead...which made no sense and your probably scratched your head wondering if I forgot to take my meds.

Meds is okay, but need to get up and get my glasses. Once I sit down you are all stuck with figuring out what the hell I'm talking about, or to who for that matter.

I was very confused, and I don't think I even read the post I was replying to....giggle...

[Cha]

311. No worries, fadedrose.. I didn't even read it. Just got back online.. hours are so different out

here on Kauai.

Aloha

[Cali_Democrat]

140. 1st reply FTW!

w00t!

[NCTraveler]

152. This is a very old meme Cha.

The right wingers were telling us he was a Trojan horse for the Muslim brotherhood/sharia law/socialists before he was elected the first time. Right wingers who lack creativity have been using this meme since day one. No difference here. Someone is trying to sell us a piece of shit. It isn't Obama.

[Cha]

309. Thank you for that, NCT, and boy do I know that! You'd think some originality would be called for.

[freshwest]

385. Whatever appeals to your target audience, like the ACA thread. Credibility = Zero. n/t

[uponit7771]

160. +1

[fadedrose]

205. Cha

Please read your post from me, #139....

No reply necessary or desired.

[sulphurdunn]

208. The post criticizes the President

for pushing the TPP. Refuting that argument by praising his entire administration is a red herring.

[davidpdx]

342. The post trashes Obama's entire time in office because of supporting the TPP

acting like he has done nothing but evil. I personally disagree with the TPP and I personally disagree with President Obama. That doesn't make it necessary to trash his entire time in office.

[Cha]

348. Mahalo, david.

[Dr Hobbitstein]

232. She shoots, she scores!

Winning goal in the first round!!!

[Cha]

314. Mahalo Dr Hobbitstein!

[hrmjustin]

245. As usual Cha you make good points!

[Cha]

315. Mahalo Justin.. means a lot, buddy!

[hrmjustin]

317. You handled yourself here with grace and class as always.

[randys1]

254. Sill you, this is DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND, positive comments about the leader

of the Democratic Party are NOT tolerated

Only hatred of Obama and Clinton is

[Cha]

316. Yeah, they wish, randy!

[Maraya1969]

281. THANK YOU CHA! AND EVERYONE ELSE WHO ACTUALLY SUPPORTS THIS PARTY

One thing the republicans never do is cut up their own people. None of them said shit about bush and the HORRORS of his presidency.

But look at someone post yet another anti-Obama thread and everyone has to get on their high horse and join because they have no memory of all the great things he has done or they just like bashing people or maybe they don't know whathehell they are talking about.

It doesn't even matter what the subject is most of the time because they just like to complain and be negative.

Maybe we are dealing with immaturity. One thing you learn in life is everyone is going to sooner or later disappoint you. That does not mean they are bad. It doesn't mean you should judge them by this disappointment. Take the total view.

Take the total view. Not the narrow view.

[Cha]

318. Well said, Maraya~ "..maybe they don't know whathehell they are talking about." I'm opting for

this one as the primary factor. Not sure they would even care all the good that's happened even if they knew.

Mahalo, Maraya

[Number23]

304. And Cha FOR THE WIN!

I saw the thread title and rolled my eyes, but when I saw "by William Rivers Pitt" that was all I needed to see to stop reading entirely.

[Cha]

319. I know.. I usually trash 'em.. but "trojan horse".. lol give. me. a. freaking. CT. break.

23!

[totodeinhere]

325. But most of us do get it. 194 recs for this OP and counting.

n/t

[secondwind]

340. thank you for your post! I find it disturbing to see this description of our POTUS....

[Cha]

346. You're Welcome, secondwind.. thank you!

[Ichingcarpenter]

10. Mitch McConnell Says Obama 'Has Done An Excellent Job' Pushing Trade Deal

well isn't that special


http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026687664

[orpupilofnature57]

13. No that's scarey, now when there's bipartisanship,

we're screwed .

[billhicks76]

15. George Carlin

You know what he says about bipartisanship.

[Enthusiast]

285. Special!

[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]

[cali]

11. of one thing I'm certain: This kind of article sure doesn't promote a discussion

or the TPP. It's just a food fight about President Obama.

[Agschmid]

19. Yup.

[n2doc]

20. True. I'm not sure, though, that anything on the TPP doesn't do the same

There are a subset of folks who will attack anything that doesn't agree with their worldview, and TPP/trade discussions seems to be a real magnet.

[Agschmid]

27. A lot of people just post crap about TPP.

People seem uninformed about the process, what TPA, TPP etc. are... How decisions in congress will be made, what the impact of those decisions are.

A lot of the posts on the topic seem to be straight from the "gut", not that anything is wrong with that but it makes the conversions more heated.

I stay out of most of it because I'm not sure I understand the whole process.

[billhicks76]

49. Just Like NAFTA

The Clintons said we didn't understand the nuances. Just like deregulating banks and telecoms.

[Agschmid]

52. Well I for one don't.

But the people I elected to congress should do this for me, and they are.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

116. Most of the people in Congress are Republicans, elected by pro-corporate, anti-labour folks.

Doesn't that make you a wee bit suspicious that even if they do understand it, their reasons for supporting it are pro-corporate, anti-labour?

[Agschmid]

120. One of my congress people is Elizabeth Warren...

So I did my part.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

125. You're lucky. And she doesn't support it.

(Eta, I'm halfway lucky too - one of my Senators is Sherrod Brown. Unfortunately, the other is still Rob Portman.)

[Agschmid]

370. Halfway is better than none.

[Romulox]

144. Warren is leading the opposition to TPP. Fact check time, perhaps? nt

[Agschmid]

371. Yes I am aware, it good thing too.

Fact check? Think I got it right...

[Jamastiene]

367. So did those of us who ended up stuck with Republicans.

That doesn't mean we didn't do our part. Most of us tried as hard as we could but were outnumbered and surrounded by people who wouldn't listen and voted for the damn Republicans anyhow.

[Agschmid]

372. No I'm sure you did what you could...

But I don't don't like being told I'm a third way pro TPP democrat when I was part of getting Warren elected.

Some people shouldn't just throw accusations with nothing to back them up. You didn't do this.

[cali]

58. that is true- and yes, it's on both sides

but it is possible to understand quite a lot. I know that most people don't have the time or inclination to have delved as deeply into it as I've been able to do. My interest in it coincided with the aftermath of a bad accident, so I plunged in. And there is a lot of information available- if not so much on tpp specifics, than on FTAs in general and the process.

Things I wish people did understand:

that trade promotion authority is not simply about dictating a yay or nay vote on future trade agreements, but that it governs how those trade agreements are negotiated and what U.S. priorities for negotiations are- as well as specifics that are to be included in trade agreements.

That passing TPA just about ensures passage of the TPP.

That Investment State Dispute Settlement can't actually change laws, but that it can influence them; whether they're introduced, whether they're revoked, how they're written.

That the TPP isn't just about lowering trade barriers or job loss due to outsourcing. People who claim that outsourcing will continue apace regardless of the TPP are correct. The TPP appears to be more about creating uniform regulation than anything else. that includes, but isn't limited to food safety, the environment and I/P.

I surely don't understand the whole process. Very few people do. I'm quite sure I never will, but I do know that one can become well informed about it.

[Agschmid]

73. This...

promotion authority is not simply about dictating a yay or nay vote on future trade agreements, but that it governs how those trade agreements are negotiated and what U.S. priorities for negotiations are- as well as specifics that are to be included in trade agreements.

Is what I want to know more about.

[cali]

91. sure.

<snip>

Negotiating objectives

According to the Congressional Research Service, Congress categorizes trade negotiating objectives in three ways: overall objectives, principal objectives, and other priorities. The broader goals encapsulate the overall direction trade negotiations take, such as enhancing the United States' and other countries' economies. Principal objectives are detailed goals that Congress expects to be integrated into trade agreements, such as "reducing barriers and distortions to trade (e.g., goods, services, agriculture); protecting foreign investment and intellectual property rights; encouraging transparency; establishing fair regulatory practices; combating anti-corruption; ensuring that countries enforce their environmental and labor laws; providing for an effective dispute settlement process; and protecting the U.S. right to enforce its trade remedy laws". Consulting Congress is also an important objective.[16]

Principal objectives include:

Market access: These negotiating objectives seek to reduce or eliminate barriers that limit market access for U.S. products. "It also calls for the use of sectoral tariff and non-tariff barrier elimination agreements to achieve greater market access."
Services: Services objectives "require that U.S. negotiator strive to reduce or eliminate barriers to trade in services, including regulations that deny nondiscriminatory treatment to U.S. services and inhibit the right of establishment (through foreign investment) to U.S. service providers."
Agriculture: There are three negotiating objectives regarding agriculture. One lays out in greater detail what U.S. negotiators should achieve in negotiating robust trade rules on sanitary and phytosanitary (SPS) measures. The second calls for trade negotiators to ensure transparency in how tariff-rate quotas are administered that may impede market access opportunities. The third seeks to eliminate and prevent the improper use of a country’s system to protect or recognize geographical indications (GI). These are trademark-like terms used to protect the quality and reputation of distinctive agricultural products, wines and spirits produced in a particular region of a country. This new objective is intended to counter in large part the European Union’s efforts to include GI protection in its bilateral trade agreements for the names of its products that U.S. and other country exporters argue are generic in nature or commonly used across borders, such as parma ham or Parmesan cheese.”
Investment/Investor rights: “The overall negotiating objectives on foreign investment are designed “to reduce or eliminate artificial or trade distorting barriers to foreign investment, while ensuring that foreign investors in the United States are not accorded greater substantive rights with respect to investment protections than domestic investors in the United States, and to secure for investors important rights comparable to those that would be available under the United States legal principles and practices."[17]

Scope

Fast track agreements were enacted as "congressional-executive agreements" (CEAs), which must be approved by a simple majority in both chambers of Congress.

Although Congress cannot explicitly transfer its powers to the executive branch, the 1974 trade promotion authority had the effect of delegating power to the executive, minimizing consideration of the public interest, and limiting the legislature's influence over the bill to an up or down vote:[18]

It allowed the executive branch to select countries for, set the substance of, negotiate and then sign trade agreements without prior congressional approval.
It allowed the executive branch to negotiate trade agreements covering more than just tariffs and quotas.
It established a committee system, comprising 700 industry representatives appointed by the president, to serve as advisors to the negotiations. Throughout trade talks, these individuals had access to confidential negotiating documents. Most members of Congress and the public had no such access, and there were no committees for consumer, health, environmental or other public interests.
It empowered the executive branch to author an agreement's implementing legislation without Congressional input.
It required the executive branch to notify Congress 90 days before signing and entering into an agreement, but allowed unlimited time for the implementing legislation to be submitted.
It forced a floor vote on the agreement and its implementing legislation in both chambers of Congress; the matters could not "die in committee."
It eliminated several floor procedures, including Senate unanimous consent, normal debate and cloture rules, and the ability to amend the legislation.
It prevented filibuster by limiting debate to 20 hours in each chamber.
It elevated the Special Trade Representative (STR) to the cabinet level, and required the Executive Office to house the agency.

The 1979 version of the authority changed the name of the STR to the U.S. Trade Representative.[18]

The 2002 version of the authority created an additional requirement for 90-day notice to Congress before negotiations could begin.[18]

<snip>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fast_track_%28trade%29

And this is an analysis of the current TPA in regard to sovereignty issues as they impact I/P. This analysis highlights the problems with the legal language employed:


<snip>

Let’s take these in order. Section (a) is a repetition of the language in every free trade implementation act that has passed congress since NAFTA. In technical detail, it is mostly literally true. International trade agreements, like most international treaties in the U.S., are non-self-executing, meaning that they only become judicially cognizable as U.S. law through domestic legislation implementing their mandates. Section (a) can be seen as articulating that standard. Elsewhere, the bill makes clear that the President has to identify through draft implementing legislation all the changes in US law required by the treaty. Any changes in law required by the treaty that are not adopted by the Congress in that implementing legislation will have no effect on U.S. law.

It is not true, however, that a failure of Congress to implement changes a treaty requires renders those provisions has having “no effect” whatsoever. The non-implemented provisions will still bind the U.S. under international law. Some other party of the treaty, or a private investor under investor-state dispute settlement (ISDS), could (depending on the enforcement language in the treaty) sue the U.S. for damages or to authorize trade sanctions. That dispute settlement process would bind the U.S. government – and have effect – even though it would not change U.S. law.

The language in (b) was not included in the last Trade Promotion Authority bill to pass Congress in 2002 or in any Free Trade Agreement implementing act. It shows that one of the major criticisms of U.S. trade policy, especially in the intellectual property field, is taking hold. The criticism is that even when the trade agreement provisions are consistent with presently existing U.S. law, they still have the negative effect of locking the U.S. into its present legislative structure.

Take the example of the use of software or services to break the code on a locked cell phone to use it with another carrier. Such action circumvents the “technological protection measure” imposed by the cell phone maker that blocks access to copyrighted software driving the phone. The Digital Millennium Copyright Act makes such “circumvention” illegal absent an exception. And the U.S. has entered a series of trade agreements that require countries to abide by the DMCA standard as it then was, including the lack of a permanent exception for cell phone unlocking. And thus, if Congress adopts a permanent exception for this problem (or for another problem, like facilitating accessible format copies for people with disabilities) the U.S. will be in derogation of trade agreement language it has already signed.

So does TPA section (b), claiming that nothing in a trade agreement can “prevent the United States, any State of the United States, or any locality of the United States from amending or modifying any law,” solve the problem? No it does not. Like (a), section (b) can be read as literally true. The U.S. Congress can always amend U.S. law in contravention of international law, and therefore nothing in a trade agreement can “prevent” the amendment of U.S. law. But the clear implication of the section is, like (a), that changing our laws to violate a treaty will have no effect. This is clearly not true. If Congress changes our law to be in violation of a treaty commitment, the only way to avoid liability for that change is to re-negotiate the applicable treaties to remove the confining language at issue.

Section (c) contains the biggest whopper. There, the bill claims to be able to render findings by dispute settlement panels with “no binding effect” on the law or “the Government” of the U.S. The key here is that international law, not U.S. law, decides the extent to which international treaties bind and the scope of remedies available. If a treaty has a dispute resolution process, then the nature of how that process binds an individual country is determined by the treaty, including any reservations made in the treaty itself, not by local trade authorization legislation.

<snip>

http://infojustice.org/archives/34298

[mopinko]

60. i'm getting pretty tired of the blind outrage myself.

i understand the secrecy, and i understand not having the whole damn congress negotiating it.
that's about all they have right now.

[orpupilofnature57]

31. Unfortunately that subset are becoming megalomaniacs that run everything,

the rewards or spoils of the anti-social behavior adopted by TPTB .

[orpupilofnature57]

24. Exactly, it's like my problems with Hillary have nothing to do with

Their Witch hunt, they've conducted since 92' .

[woo me with science]

25. I strongly disagree. I think it's an important article.

Our government is flooded with corporate money and now runs on lies and propaganda. We do have a Trojan Horse president. We have an entire government now that routinely lies to us about its goals and conducts elaborate theater, staged votes, to make it appear that they support things they don't. We live in a fake democracy.

At a certain point the rank corruption, the lies, need to be faced head-on for what they are. The entire relationship of Americans to our government has been changed. We are under mass surveillance, and we are targeted 24/7 by a ubiquitous, lying propaganda machine. Perhaps you would be right in saying that we have not had an honest government for a very long time, but the level of outright authoritarian contempt for Americans, the normalization and LEGALIZATION of authoritarian methods of communication and control targeted at us, is beyond what any of us should tolerate.

This TPP is undemocratic, period. It is a Trojan Horse piece of predatory garbage, pushed by Trojan Horse politicians pretending to be working within a democratic government, when what they are really doing is subverting democracy itself.

This should NOT be discussed as though it were just another political disagreement. It is a symbol of the deep corruption of our democracy, and Trojan Horse politicians who achieve their positions with torrents of corporate money and deliberate, orchestrated campaigns of lies are an important aspect of that.

[orpupilofnature57]

32. +1000 !!!!

Bait & Switch on a grand scale.

[avebury]

45. I totally agree!

I have been a supporter of Obama and voted for him in both elections.

But I have to tell you that the TPP horrifies me and boggles the mind that Obama supports it. Only time will tell if TPP ends up destroying Obama's legacy.

[cali]

70. some of the points made are very important, it's how the argument is presented that

I find problematic; it's not all about President Obama but by starting off the way Will did, it leads to the inevitable food fight about President Obama

I think I'm fairly aware of the dangers posed by the tpp which does indeed illustrate the dangers posed by corporate influence and control of our government and politicians.

I remain unconvinced that this is the best approach to tackling the issue.

[Maedhros]

199. You're right. It deflects responsibility away from others who helped draft the TPP. [n/t]

[Scuba]

87. + Eighty Gazillion

[newfie11]

111. That's for posting this

[pberq]

187. +1000 - you said it! nt

[840high]

222. +10

[Enthusiast]

286. Huge +1!

As if things aren't bad enough. Watch the following to get a glimpse into just how badly we being represented.

[Thespian2]

303. Congratulations!

A post that actually does an excellent job of presenting the problems with the government and the TPP...and does not get into a personality fight...

[leftstreet]

305. +1

[2banon]

324. Well Said! Spot On!

[trumad]

42. OK---so all that anti-Hillary shit you post is to create discussion?

Oh---OK.... I get it.

[billhicks76]

53. Who Knows?

Maybe some people desperately fear what Clinton controlling the Democratic Party would mean and are well beyond discussion and have gone straight to warning.

[trumad]

56. Oh I see,,,,

[billhicks76]

62. I'm Tired Of Trying To Convince People Hillary Is No Good Or Dishonest

She's an honorary member of the soulless Bush Family. If that's not enough to make you suspicious then go ahead and campaign for her and let all those military contractors and bankers line their pockets. I'll be organizing with the people on the grass roots level cleaning up the mess later or at least trying. To many I know have given up in utter disappointment.

[trumad]

68. Yawn

You folks need new material.

[dreamnightwind]

75. No, we need new leaders

[billhicks76]

165. So Do You

Weak comment

[Scuba]

88. Bingo!

[markpkessinger]

216. Hillary is a candidate for the party's nomination . . .

. . . she is not the nominee, and the purpose of a primary campaign is to discuss and vet potential nominees. At this point in the process, it is perfectly appropriate to talk about the candidates themselves.

If I understand Cali's point correctly, her issue s not with the substance of the article, most of which I believe she agrees with, but is rather with the framing of it in terms of a "Trojan Horse President," a framing that may well create more heat than light on the substantive issues. Personally, I have somewhat mixed feelings about that, but I see her point. And it has nothing whatsoever to do with ongoing discussions about primary candidates for the 2016 nomination.

[trumad]

218. No---Cali has a problem with Pitt hence her snarky post.

I can see right though her.

[Codeine]

89. Pot. Kettle. Black.

You're a top-flight shit-stirrer yourself, Cali.

[tkmorris]

215. There can be only one

[ucrdem]

38. No one ever went broke flogging RW media memes but don't they have to be fresh?

Manchurian Obama is Prison Planet era.

p.s. this post should get hundreds of Bronx cheers.

[Faryn Balyncd]

51. Stiglitz should again be Chair of the President's Council of Economic Advisers.

He has seen it all. He understands our economy, and he profoundly respects our democratic processes.

[Enthusiast]

289. +1 a whole bunch!

[Marrah_G]

55. There was a genius to Obamas campaigning

He was really able to present himself in a way that allowed the voters to put upon him whatever their vision was.

If we truly want "hope and change" we will need to work very hard to put a real progressive in the White House.

[99Forever]

63. I wish I could say you are wrong.

Occum's Razor says you aren't.

[L0oniX]

67. *

[marble falls]

71. Everybody knows this but avoids it. Nice piece, Will. Better have your umbrella ready.

[jtuck004]

265. Umbrellas are nice but I prefer people who will stand shoulder to shoulder with me. We can share, or

just find a trash bag.

[HereSince1628]

76. Obama did go through law school when arbitration rather that lawsuits was being promoted

as a popular alternative to the court system.

Mandatory arbitration was pushed as a way to reduce costs of lawsuits. Arbitration, often unilateral and mandatory as a condition of entering into a contract between buyer-sellor was promoted as a protective shield for corporations.

The influence that has had on business law by the turn of the 21st century is summarized below in the comments of Judge WIlliam G. Young. In those comments from a dozen years ago you hear echoes of the current concerns about ISDS, that come from Elizabeth Warren who has a background and interest in consumer protection.

For the first time in our history, business has a good chance of opting out of the legal system altogether. Today's expansive reading of the Federal Arbitration Act allows the unilateral imposition of arbitration clauses to trump all sorts of civil rights and consumer protection legislation. Coupled with today's expansive preemption jurisprudence, business can (and does) make a rational calculus that leads it to lobby for an ever-diminishing role for the federal district courts.

Judge William G. Young
An Open Letter to U.S. District Judges, 50 FED.oLAW. 30, 33 (2003).

Resolution of disputes outside of the courts is financially quite beneficial to corporations and the reality is money is why corporations exist. Not surprisingly, as the free trade agreements are basically contractual business arrangements between nations, this same concept has been being pushed into trade agreements. It's just taken a long time for a significant fraction of the public to become aware of this during a time when the abusive practices of business make them available for criticism.

[arely staircase]

77. ah the latest from black-out dot com nt

[Hoppy]

78. You can't blame Obama for wanting $25 million speaking fees like Billary.

The alternative is to be honest and spend your time building roofs on houses like Jimmy Carter.

[Cha]

84. You have no effin' idea what the President is going to do when leaves he office.. but, that doesn't

stop you from ignorantly hurling cheap pot shots from the anonymous internet gallery.

[Hoppy]

168. Please favor the rest of us with your inside knowledge.

[geek tragedy]

175. You're the one who fabricated the "Obama is a greedy monster who is seling America

out for speaking fees" theory--what is YOUR source? -besides your own personal hatred of the president and an overactive imagination, that is.

[Hoppy]

179. My source? The commie N.Y. Times.

T.P.P.
Shell, drilling in the Arctic.

The blank spaces that report indictments on banksters regarding the crash of '08.

Selection of Timmy Geithner.

That's all I can think of now.

[geek tragedy]

184. No, those sources don't supporty your allegation that the President is a greedy moral monster

who's selling out America to line his own pockets.

That just indicates he did some stuff you didn't like.

you're the one who's claiming that if he does stuff you don't like, it's because he's a horrible human being that doesn't care about anything but making himself rich.

Which, is your opinion which is based in your personal hatred of him, not in anything resembling analysis, logic, or evidence.

Just admit that you hate him and everything he stands for, and you'll have more credibility. You just want your country back.

[Hoppy]

191. Lets start of with that I voted for Dennis Kuchinich over Obama and Hillary in '08.

That was my hope to get my country back.

[geek tragedy]

194. The same Kucinich who draws a paycheck from Fox News? nt

[DemocratSinceBirth]

200. I think you got Ole Hoppy with that one.

[Hoppy]

322. I will take Dennis's voting history over St. Hillary's any day.

[sheshe2]

299. Here ya go~

http://www.democraticunderground.com/110228803

[Hoppy]

369. Shit, that ain't nothin'. While its a start, Billary started a foundation.

Yeah, the foundation ain't got too much money in it, but still. They show that they care.

[Cha]

306. "Obama’s Retirement Plan: Help Black Kids" You don't have to have "inside knowledge".. just get

your head out of the sand you have it so deeply buried in.

"At the risk of emphasizing his status as a lame duck, Obama announced the establishment of My Brother’s Keeper Alliance, a nonprofit outgrowth of the My Brother’s Keeper program in the White House that the president announced more than a year ago, with little fanfare from a jaded press and public."

more

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/05/05/how-obama-will-spend-the-rest-of-his-life.html?source=TDB&via=FB_Page

http://www.democraticunderground.com/110228803


Youth Guidance: President Obama Invites BAM Program Back To The White House

"President Obama has invited Youth Guidance’s Becoming a Man (B.A.M.) program back to Washington D.C. to kick off a new White House initiative called “My Brother’s Keeper.” Three B.A.M. students from Hyde Park High School, along with B.A.M. Lead Supervisor, Marshaun Bacon, and Youth Guidance Board Member, Stuart Taylor, will visit the White House Thursday and Friday. The President’s initiative will support young male minorities by bringing foundations and companies together to find ways to keep young men in school and out of the criminal justice system."

http://theobamadiary.com/2014/02/27/my-brothers-keeper/

[sheshe2]

298. Here Cha~

http://www.democraticunderground.com/110228803

[Cha]

307. Hey she.. thank you for the link.. I elaborated on it and sent it to the one who has "no idea.."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6691612

[sheshe2]

308. I posted about it as well, but came across n2docs first!

Lol~ will follow your link, Cha.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm~ Let me guess, all you will hear is crickets.

[Cha]

310. I dunno what he'll have to say about the reality.. seemed so invested in fantasy land.

Thanks again!

[sheshe2]

312. Does Obamacare cover that?

And you are so welcome, Cha.

[geek tragedy]

97. Billary? Obama and Clinton haters on the left would be well-advised to avoid using rightwing

vocabulary lest their motives be revealed.

[ismnotwasm]

156. Yes.

I find that very a very odd thing to say on a Democratic board.

[Hekate]

335. "Billary"? You sure you're in the "Democrat" Party? The slur "Billary" is straight from FR. nt

[merrily]

360. It's also a very common and well-known way, in the real world, of referring to any famous

famous couple, as when Ben Affleck and Jennifer Lopez were referred to as Bennifer by fawning media and devoted, adoring fans.

I see nothing wrong with Billary, regardless of where else you happened to see it. It's not even derogatory, ffs. It's just a shorter way to refer to them when one wants to refer to both of them at the same time.

If you enjoy typing out Bill and Hillary Clinton, Or President and Secretary Clinton, be my guest. If you think using "Billary makes me or anyone else a Republican," be my guest as well, though I hope that you see how bizarre a notion that is. (By the way, if you see Billary used on a communist board, will that people who use Bilary both Communists and a Republicans simultaneously?)

The witch-hunting on this board reached ridiculous levels.

[betsuni]

82. Oh bullfeathers

[LWolf]

83. I knew this in '08.

I was reviled for saying so.

Better late than never, I guess.

[Scuba]

90. Back in 2009 I had a post hidden when I wrote that Obama's abandoning even the public option ...

... was traitorous (or something along those lines).

Now we have six years of evidence piling up - Summers, Geithner, drones, offshore drilling, fracking, the TPP, etc, etc, etc.


Glad to see this post was not hidden. BHO's fan club and the paid agents of the right need to see that we are no longer buying this bullshit.

[geek tragedy]

96. Who is "we"--the fellow Obamasux knee-jerkers?

Mainstream liberal Democrats like him just fine. The extremists not so much.

[Scuba]

98. Yes, pointing out bad policy makes one an "extremist."

Another fail from geek tragedy.

[geek tragedy]

99. You rattled off a list of talking points that the President's haters on the left cling

bitterly to, not a policy critique.

Ted Cruz's extremism and style can be found on the opposite side go the political spectrum.

[Octafish]

107. Those aren't ''Haters on the left talking points.''

"Summers, Geithner, drones, offshore drilling, fracking, the TPP, etc, etc, etc." are the facts, the reality of the Obama administration.

What would Goldman think?

How many Banksters are in prison?

Where in the Constitution does it say the President can be judge, jury and executioner?

BP hasn't cleaned up the Gulf or made whole those whose lives and livelihoods were impacted by their criminal negligence.

We're set to frack Ukraine until Putin.

TPP will help the corporations and their owners, not the 99-percent.

Why is Gov. Don Siegelman in prison?

And ask yourself what kind of DUer compares another DUer to Ted Cruz?

[zeemike]

121. It's the Emperor's New Clothes syndrome

You must be one if you say what you see.

[grahamhgreen]

150. Didn't we all...!

[MisterP]

183. the point is not to convince, it's to delay until it's too late

Summers, Geithner, Fowler, drones, Morales's grounding, Tegucigalpa '09, Libya's success, Syria's inevitable downfall, offshore drilling, fracking, TPP, war are all irrelevant now with not even a year left: the loyalists get their dander riled up every other month with us squalling Naderites slandering these wonderful happenstances, and they swiftly forget each thing that made their blood boil as they proved that the left was working for the right by opposing policies that the right had written and asked for

[Segami]

190. This who have the ball....

control the game and the game clock.

[SidDithers]

108. ...

Sid

[Damansarajaya]

197. If Bernie Sanders becomes president, Sid,

will you worship the ground he walks on too?

Just wondering . . .

[SidDithers]

221. Do I know you?...

Sid

[Dr Hobbitstein]

229. He was confusing you with Skinner.

Seeing as you have the same IP and all...

[grasswire]

395. LOL

well played

[Damansarajaya]

246. It was a yes or no question.

I was just wondering since you seem to think Pres. Obama can do no wrong.

I wondered if this was just an Obama thing or will the defend-anything-all-the-time go for any Democratic president.

[SidDithers]

251. I don't think Democratic Presidents should be bashed at Democratic Underground...

if, by some miracle, Bernie were to win the nomination and then the Presidency, then I would defend him against the inevitable attacks from the perpetually outraged - whether those attacks come from Republicans or from the fringe left.

Sid

[Damansarajaya]

276. Fair enough. I appreciate a consistent position. nt

[ibegurpard]

331. I think Canadians should clean up their own backyards.

[SidDithers]

337. ...

Xenophobia is funny.

Sid

[freshwest]

388. EarlG smacked down a xenophobe on DU2. Because of a

complaint on your daring to post at DU.

[SidDithers]

393. I remember it well...

I wonder what ever happened to DainBramaged? Does he still post here?

Sid

[freshwest]

394. I don't think he ever got the hang of DU3. He stayed there longer than most. But, there's been a

resurgence of DU3rs posting on DU2 now as almost their own board where they all agree with each other. Check the top five, here is the most recent:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=latest_threads

Even AverageJoe90, who was PPR'd here, was posting there.

[freshwest]

381. Does this photograph jog your memory?

Yelling 'Strawman' is a dead giveaway.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

109. Who 'owns' the Party?

'Trojan Horse' depends upon your point of view on that question. If you believe 'the people' are the Party, then yes, an argument could be made that the President was a 'Trojan Horse', because that depends upon something being 'hidden' from those who received the 'Horse'. But do 'the People' own the Party, or just a small subset of people with power, most of whom are already wealthy? If that's how you view things, then there was nothing 'hidden'. They knew what was acceptable in a candidate, and were fine with either Obama or Clinton in 2008 (and Clinton in 2016).

But Obama did not campaign entirely 'in disguise'. Yes, he used liberal rhetoric, but at the core of the ideas he presented, even in campaigning in 2007 was the same sort of 'socially liberal, fiscally conservative' Democrat the Party machinery is entirely comfortable with. If there was any area in which one might suggest he misled, it was in foreign adventurism, but even there he hedged by saying he was only against 'stupid wars' - without mentioning all sorts of covert drone wars the world over, or his current level of comfort with massive intelligence agency overreach in 'Big Brother'hood.

So I'd say 'Trojan Horse' is the wrong metaphor. He mostly didn't hide who he was. He simply let others project their own hopes for change on him.

[merrily]

115. Public option.

[stonecutter357]

146. .

[geek tragedy]

177. you can thank Joe Lieberman et al for killing both that and the Medicare expansion nt

[merrily]

178. Nope. But, I've had this discussion too many times before to have it again.

[geek tragedy]

186. Yet you keep on trotting out the same false talking points.

the President wasn't going to hold hostage the Medicaid expansion, the end to pre-existing condition exclusions, the increased regulation, and the subsidies unless he got the public option.

The Green Lantern theory of presidential power is a big-time logical fail.

http://www.vox.com/2014/5/20/5732208/the-green-lantern-theory-of-the-presidency-explained

[merrily]

188. Odd comment to make to someone who just declined to discuss it, but whatever.

[tkmorris]

231. You can't kill that which was never born

[tridim]

112. So much for my ignore list. POS used car salesmen will slip through I guess.

That's what they do.

Go sell some more shitty cars Will.

[ismnotwasm]

154. Right?

You'd think using ignore would be safe. Trash thread I guess.

[LordGlenconner]

243. You know what's more interesting?

That the person in question is apparently "borrowing" concepts from other writers. Even though they may be conservative writers, I believe there is a word for that.

The anti-Obama bile is just par for the course.

[Oilwellian]

113. Thanks for posting, Segami

K&R

[Koinos]

117. William Pitt has hit the nail on the head.

I can understand why people are in denial about this. Looking behind the curtain to see what our "masters" are up to can be absolutely horrific. Elizabeth Warren believes she can turn Clinton around and convince her to serve the people rather than the corporations. I am not optimistic. I believe that the intent of the oligarchy is to take the rest of our blood. With Clinton, this will happen more slowly. With Walker, the carnage will be rapid. Walker will do to the nation what he did to Wisconsin. From the standpoint of the oligarchy, Wisconsin is a "success" story. From the standpoint of the rest of us, it is a nightmarish hell on earth. Median income in Wisconsin has dropped $9000 since Walker began his mischief at the bidding of his masters. That is what "they" are planning for us.

Sanders and Warren are prophets in the wilderness. They know what TPP is about. They know what will become of this once beautiful country if TPP is passed. They know what will happen to environmental regulations, unions, drug prices, food inspection and labeling, wages, health care, social security, education and working conditions if TPP is passed. But it is hard to give up old loyalties and comforting beliefs. Denial is a protective measure of the human psyche; is a psychological mechanism for retaining some semblance of comfort and security. The truth is that Obama is not on our side and has never been. Even Affordable Care is a republican invention, designed to provide some relief to people without insurance, but a whole lot of money to the healthcare and insurance industry.

Obama revealed his true face when he talked down to Elizabeth Warren. But he has done that before. Time after time, he has trashed heroic progressive democrats and left republican enemies alone. Even more, he has courted republicans, negotiated with them when he didn't have to, and overlooked the most vile and racist attacks on his person. Why? Because both Obama and republicans serve the same masters. And Obama will be wealthy beyond his wildest dreams when he leaves office, if he can manage to make one last capitulation that hands US sovereignty over to the oligarchs.

We are not in charge anymore, folks. We haven't been in charge for a long time. Sanders and Warren are heroes. However futile it may seem, it is courageous for them to stand up to those who own most of the money and power. When times get very hard, when things seem impossible, when the darkness of greed seems to overtake our country, that is when great and heroic human beings make their appearance and we are reminded of the values we have forgotten and taken for granted. Great suffering becomes fertile soil for great idealism and new hope. Hope for Obama was a false hope. Let's not get fooled again.

[grasswire]

226. beautifully said

thank you.

[raindaddy]

119. Good analogy

You can't promise to change the way we do business in Washington, including running the most transparent administration in history and then act like you're being inconvenienced when people expect full disclosure when it comes to game changing policy like NSA spying and trade bills that hand corporations the power to undermine laws that protect the public and not have your image tarnished.. And it's not Pitt, Stiglitz or Warren tarnishing his image, it's Barack Obama...

"More and more, the real business of our democracy isn't done in town halls or public meetings or even in the open halls of Congress," Obama said. "Decisions are made in closed-door meetings, or with the silent stroke of the President's pen, or because some lobbyist got some Congressman to slip his pet project into a bill during the dead of night. We have to take the blinders off the White House. The more people know about what's going on in Washington, and how their tax dollars are being spent, and who's raising money for who, the less likely it is that major decisions will be hijacked by lobbyists and special interests."

"I know it's easy to be cynical about politics in this country," Obama said. "I understand that cynicism. But I've always said that when the American people are paying attention -- when they're involved and engaged and informed about what's going on in their government -- then good things happen. I've spent my life trying to open up the political process to people, and I believe we can do it again. And when we do that, we will have a government that listens to their voices and finally responds to their best hopes once more."

The guard says, ‘you can’t take notes.’ I said, ‘I can’t take notes?’” Boxer recalled. “‘Well, you can take notes, but have to give them back to me, and I’ll put them in a file.’ So I said: ‘Wait a minute. I’m going to take notes and then you’re going to take my notes away from me and then you’re going to have them in a file, and you can read my notes? Not on your life.’”

“It’s like being in kindergarten,” said Rep. Rosa DeLauro (D-Conn.), who’s become the leader of the opposition to President Barack Obama’s trade agenda. “You give back the toys at the end.”

"It is incomprehensible to me that the leaders of major corporate interests who stand to gain enormous financial benefits from this agreement are actively involved in the writing of the TPP while, at the same time, the elected officials of this country, representing the American people, have little or no knowledge as to what is in it,"
-Bernie Sanders

[Mojorabbit]

396. +1000 nt

[Pisces]

130. I can't take this much stupid so early in the morning. Next he's the Manchurian Candidate. He's

for something you're against, not a Trojan horse.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

201. Some guy told me George Soros paid his tuition at the tony Hawaiian prep school he attended./NT

[Pisces]

206. Ha!!

[freshwest]

389. +1

[colsohlibgal]

131. Wondering

What would Obama have to do/say to dissuade the few here who fiercely defend him no matter what?

The "tea baggers" are against it too holds no water. Libertarians do intersect with progressives on a few things. Most of their agenda is wacko but on this, our insane military expenditures, pot, and apparently this we do agree.

Obama is lock step with most of the republican party on this. He and Mitch the Turtle are both for this. Obama defenders on this must relish the thought of multinational corporations suing the US. Just one of the tasty nuggets in there.

[Koinos]

240. Loyalty is addictive.

[CharlotteVale]

137. k&r

[YoungDemCA]

145. Racism in the Age of Obama

Racial tensions in the United States have changed since Obama’s election as president, and for the worse. As judicial opinions since 2008 have revealed, both the word “Obama” and the president’s image have become tools for harassing and otherwise discriminating, in the workplace and in places of public accommodation, against blacks and against whites in romantic relationships with blacks.

For instance, while at a company picnic, one white employee sat down next to his co-workers, held a watermelon slice in his hand, and asserted, “I’m going to sit down to eat my ‘Obama fruit.’” In a different court case, a plaintiff complained that the company’s C.E.O. once said he had a “gift for you for all the Obama people outside” — while handing a rifle to another employee. In yet another case, a white employee derided an African co-worker, calling the co-worker “boy,” threatening his life and telling him he should take Obama back to Africa to vote for him.

For other individuals, President Obama’s election has become a basis for denying and ignoring the realities of racism, both conscious and unconscious, in our country. Soon after Obama’s election, conservatives such as Gregory Coleman, a Texas lawyer, argued that the election demonstrated the obsolescence of the Voting Rights Act of 1965 — a point reiterated by the U.S. Supreme Court in its June decision invalidating a section of the act.

http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2013/11/20/racism-in-the-age-of-obama/obama-has-become-a-code-word-for-racists

Over time, the hostility toward Obama grew dramatically, and so did racist statements. Actually, it did not take very long. One year into his presidency, ABC News catalogued an array of racially tinged and overtly racist statements or actions taken against Obama. They came from election and party officials and media figures, including Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh. In the years since, the number of prominent figures using race as a wedge only grew. They include a New Hampshire police commissioner using the "N" word to refer to the president, a Montana federal district judge sending racist emails, and many others.

Most troubling is that some of the most loathsome comments have been enabled and legitimized. After Ted Nugent called the president of the United States a "subhuman mongrel"—a term CNN's Wolf Blitzer noted was used by the Nazis to justify the extermination of Jews—Texas gubernatorial candidate Greg Abbott welcomed this incendiary and hateful figure at a campaign event. And Colorado Senate candidate Tom Tancredo excitedly announced that he had gotten Nugent to contribute one of his assault weapons for Tancredo to auction off to help finance his campaign.

snip:

Now, of course, racial divisions and the sharply different perceptions whites and nonwhites have about policing and fairness have come to the fore. We know from the most recent Pew Research Center survey that reactions to the Michael Brown and Eric Garner decisions are starkly different by race. On the Ferguson case, 64 percent of whites believe the grand jury made the right decision, while 80 percent of black respondents believe it was wrong. Sixty-four percent of blacks said race was a major factor in the decision, compared with 16 percent of whites. On the Staten Island case, the results were not as stark but still striking: 47 percent of whites said the grand jury made the wrong decision, as did 90 percent of blacks. The more general perceptions about police discrimination in behavior toward minorities show whites generally feeling police are fair, and nonwhites believing by large numbers that they discriminate against minorities.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2014/12/obamas-challenge-building-a-bridge-over-americas-racial-divide/383649/

More than skin color or even the growing racial wealth gap it is this fear that remains one of the greatest unspoken gulfs between racial minorities, and everybody else. I say this because I -- someone who is occasionally criticized for presenting an optimistic view of race relations in my writing that is increasingly common among my generation -- have experienced this gulf with my white friends. They will simply never know what it's like to assume that the overly attentive sales associate following you around the store (without ever offering to assist you), is following you because she's worried you may steal something because of your race. It's a thought that will simply never cross their minds. (And yes for the record this has happened to me more than once. I've even been followed out of a store so an associate could "double check" that I had "remembered to pay," and this was after I had begun appearing on television regularly and had actually patronized the store several times before.)

But when your parents grow up in the segregated South and you grow up in the age of The Cosby Show, you remain conscious of the fact that being followed in a store will always pale in comparison to being called the n-word every day at school (which happened to my mother) or taunted with the threat of lynching (which happened to my father.) Yet the further along we go into the Obama era, which many assumed would mark the start of a new chapter in American race relations, a provocative question has emerged: Is subtle racism actually more damaging to black Americans than blatant racism?

http://www.alternet.org/story/152581/is_racism_worse_in_the_age_of_obama

[chervilant]

330. I lost a job over anti-Obama racism.

The Tuesday before Thanksgiving...all because I said to my boss: "I respect your right to be a self-avowed racist, and I hope you will respect my right not to hear in in the workplace."

After that exchange, his racist comments happened much more frequently, and he started picking at me in a passive aggressive manner.
Instead of saying "n****r-rigged," he started saying "obama-rigged." He would smirk at me, and ask if I liked his updated version.

I am more than a little relieved that I no longer have to listen to him spewing hate and bigotry...

[stonecutter357]

147. .

[grahamhgreen]

148. horse or a different animal similar to a horse, but smaller?

[BlueJazz]

149. This is one of the main parts of this deal causes me to give a thumbs-down. >>

"on labor and environmental standards, for example - citizens, unions, and civil-society groups have no recourse."

A big Stick it up your ass.

[ismnotwasm]

153. He actually compares President Obama to Nixon?

Talk about hyperbole. This is disgusting.

[raindaddy]

323. Actually Nixon Couldn't have Gotten Away With

the NSA's mass spying on Americans.. Or a trade agreement like the TPP. Nixon's healthcare reform proposal had some similarities to the Affordable Care Act.

Nixon was also paranoid and mentally unstable and Obama is neither...

[Andy823]

155. Total fucking bullshit!

Dumbest damned post I have read on DU, and it speaks wonders about the person who wrote it. I put it right up there with his crappy post about the president being a no good fucking piece of shit used car salesman!

[JustAnotherGen]

158. I think the guy that wrote this article

Is full of bologna.


No offense to you Segami - you are someone who I might not always agree with but read what you post because you don't do hit jobs, you don't drop bombs and go, and you take the time to take a deep dive on your op's.

I just don't agree with the author of the article at all.

[one_voice]

159. Yes, I knew I'd seen this verbiage

somewhere before...Trojan Horse...the right wing LOVES that shit when referring to the President.

Wish I could say I'm surprised, but I'm not. This coming from the POS used car salesmen author--his pet name for the president. Frankly, I think his work ranks right up there, no wait, maybe it's below the shit you see in the National Enquirer et al.

I'm anticipating the stories about Michelle's entourage on the tax payers dime & the vacations, etc.

http://www.storyleak.com/barack-hussein-obama-manchurian-candidate-and-trojan-horse-warmonger-and-deceiver/

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/dec/22/our-trojan-horse-president/?page=all


Plenty more where those ^^ came from. Feel free to run over and slobber all over them as well.


edit: the verbiage I'm referring to comes from the author of the article: WRP--not the OP.

[geek tragedy]

174. well, the author of this piece has received praise at Free Republic for his Obama-hating rants

before, and he's used the same language as Ted Nugent to describe the President, so it makes sense.

Note: not referring to Segami, who is good people as far as I'm concerned

[kentuck]

163. I must confess...

When the President began his first term and kept Bush holdovers like Bob Gates and General Petraeus, and continued the Bush policies, domestic and foreign, and hired Timothy Geithner to continue Bush's bailout of the banks, etc, I had similar thoughts.

Now, 6 years later, I am still not convinced. This latest decision to push the TPP over the wishes of the majority of his Party has caused the doubts to rise again. In between was the vote to make most of the Bush taxcuts permanent when we desperately needed those revenues to keep needed programs alive.

So, I am not sure. I would like to believe the best.

[geek tragedy]

181. Obama was never going to do everything DU wanted him to do.

It was probably smart to keep Petraeus from becoming an asset for the Republican party (he had demigod status, politically, until his scandal blew up).

The tax cuts were kept on lower income earners but raised on upper income voters. Sure, they could have just raised taxes on everyone--including the middle class and working poor--but how much good would that have really done?

The key was delinking raising taxes on the wealthy from raising them on the middle class. This amounted to a shift of wealth from the wealthy to everyone else.

If we need to raise taxes again, it will be on everyone--the wealthy included.

[Dr Hobbitstein]

167. By WRP...

Figures. He'd probably do better selling used cars than writing bad articles.
Still waiting on that Karl Rove indictment, and news of that massive TurboTax hack...

[geek tragedy]

173. Wait another 24 business hours nt

[Dr Hobbitstein]

227. It's happening!

I'm super serial this time, guys!

[HassleCat]

182. Like Reagan

Ronald Reagan really stirred the hopes of social conservatives, who expected him to lead the charge to outlaw abortion, allow creationism into the public schools, banish sex from television, and a whole host of other stuff. But Reagan was busy with other things, such as wrecking the environment and shredding the constitution, and he was a big disappointment to the relcons (religious conservatives), who came to regard him as something of a Trojan horse

No president of either party is going to meet the expectations of everyone who voted for him or her. I would say Obama has accomplished more than I expected, and less than I hoped. The hatred and shockingly un-American opposition he faces from Congress is horrifying.

[xocet]

189. Excellent article by WRP! K & R n/t

[lexington filly]

196. "Rabidly?" Really???

As a mediator, I fully agree that arbitrations are biased and fully geared to act quickly rather than justly. It's used all over America by car dealers to hammer consumers with lemon cars to employers to hammer employees. And these trade deals hammer American workers.

Though I'm trying by signing petitions and contacting my representatives against this deal, they in truth, represent corporations not me. These deals always run in the dark to make us unable to stop the train before its speed is so high as to make it unstoppable.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

202. Well, this post sure has highlighted the intra-party hatred among the different

Democratic factions on DU.

It's truly painful and disheartening to watch.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

209. Who are the DINOs and who are the Democrats?

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president_obama_job_approval_among_democrats-1046.html#polls


Are the DINOs the 87% of Democrats who approve of the job he is doing or the 10% of Democrats who oppose the job he is doing?


Thank you in advance.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

217. Actually, now that I've re-read my post, I should not have included the term "DINOs".

I have edited my post accordingly. DINOs are, of course, those who espouse right-wing policies and rhetoric while claiming/pretending to be Democrats.

My focus was not actually on the president in the context of the OP. What I meant to say was that it's discouraging to see the different party factions, from near-extreme far left to centrist being so far apart from each other on the job the president is doing. There's no team here, it seems. And we lose in Congressional races to rethugs and teabaggers because of it, I think.

I'm not seeing an especially aggressive extreme-left faction. But from as far left as we have represented on DU to the center, I see such hatred and animosity on our side, as is demonstrated in the sub-threads above. Now, assuming DU is a microcosm of the larger world of the Democratic Party, then it becomes very discouraging to see the infighting and intra-party hatred and all I can see for the future from the lack of teamwork and the animosity and Democrats calling each other right-wingers and repubs is many more years of rightwingnut control of Congress, and possibly the White House in the future.

Don't know if I've helped make my point any clearer...

[DemocratSinceBirth]

267. I live in one of the most Democratic areas in the nation

So most of my encounters are of necessity going to be with other Democrats. I don't see the enmity among them for the president and other main stream Democrats that I see here...

But that's anecdotal evidence...That's why I linked to the polling that Democrats are overwhelmingly supportive of our president.

[Skittles]

255. what percentage of them have no fucking clue what is going on?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

260. Because you are so much smarter and better informed than those who disagree with you? /NT

[Skittles]

264. because I research political issues and most people do not?

most people I know could not tell me anything about TPP, don't even know what it is

http://www.salon.com/2015/05/18/barack_obamas_shocking_tpp_paradox_why_the_gargantuan_trade_deal_undermines_everything_he_says_he_cares_about/

[DemocratSinceBirth]

270. Is it possible that people can be informed and still disagree with you, me, or anybody?/NT

[Skittles]

271. regarding TPP

I believe the people who pimp for it are the ones who KNOW they will profit from it - for the rest of us - it SUCKS

[jtuck004]

266. What makes you call it hatred? Just want to fan the flames? Maybe it is just people wanting what

the Democratic ideal promises and can deliver, instead of just what one they can buy?

I think it is invigorating to watch people struggle for freedom. Ymmv.

[Blue_Tires]

203. Pitt is still pissed about that Tom Brady cheating thing, isn't he?

[Angry Dragon]

211. The real question is

Do you REALLY trust this president??

[DemocratSinceBirth]

214. As much as any other Democratic president./NT

[840high]

223. I don't anymore.

[raindaddy]

302. We shouldn't be placed in the position to have to trust any politician

Do I trust a President who promised transparency and not only refuses to disclose a major trade bill to the public but he won't even allow our elected representatives to take notes. No I don't trust him! " Senator Warren is wrong" Fuck that, show us!

The other real question is why are so many Americans willing to place themselves in a position of subservience when it comes to political leaders? Anyone think they're above having personal agendas that might not include our best interests? For God's sake stop idealizing these people.

[truebrit71]

329. Sadly, no I don't.

...

[SidDithers]

224. "Martha Coakley will win on Tuesday. Bank on it"..

"Karl Rove has been indicted"

"Turbo Tax has been hacked"


We'll just add this one to the derp pile.

Sid

[True Blue Door]

225. Will not even read this. But thanks for the Big Lie title to warn off honest people.

[Doctor_J]

230. well I'm pretty sure if he'd campaigned on mandatory for profit health insurance, nafta on

steroids, continuing the ME presence, extending the Bush tax cuts, phasing public schools, signing the Paul Ryan budget, more fracking, anwr drilling, offshore drilling, proposed cuts to social security, and abandoning labor, he would have lost. So Trojan Horse pretty much sums it.

[AzDar]

235. K & R

[hifiguy]

239. Stiglitz understands all of this stuff chapter and verse.

He's smarter than a treeful of owls and has been on the inside of these nasty organizations and knows how they work. IOW. he knows what is what and how/where they bury the bodies after the economic hitmen do their work.

His word that this is an impending disaster is far more than good enough for me.

[RandiFan1290]

242. K&R!

Rustling all the right Jimmies!

[Progressive dog]

250. The TPP is far from the first agreement to invoke

investor protections. In fact the ICSID was formed in 1966. The US is TREATY member, along with 156 other UN members. The TPP will just be a law.
According to the Washington Post "RW — Currently, about 3000 international treaties give MNCs (multi-national corporations) the ability to sue governments. Some 2700 of these are Bilateral Investment Treaties. The rest are trade treaties, including NAFTA. These treaties have spread rapidly around the world since the 1990s."

[Enthusiast]

256. Utterly intolerable! Why do you hate us, Obama?

[Enthusiast]

257. K&R! This post deserves hundreds of recommendations!

[Sobax]

361. +1

[George II]

258. Another day, andother "Obama is a lousy president" post.

Will it never end?

Let's see where all of the anti-Obama people are a year from January if a republican is elected president next year.

[jtuck004]

259. Do you remember where you were the moment you realized you'd been sold a brand? n/t

[GeorgeGist]

269. I doubt TPP will be any different than the rest of Obama's economy...

90% of the benefits will go to the rich.

[Hulk]

284. Am blown away by the weak-kneed on this site and others...

Really? A "pos"? I over react often, and I get pounced on at this site, or misread, or simply pulled into arguments where someone tries to tell me what I said and meant, when I am the ONLY ONE who knows wtf I meant.

But here we go, anyway. I STILL think President Obama is the best thing that's happened to the federal government since Ike. He's done more positive for this country than anyone since FDR and Ike. We've been playing the "build up our military and intimidate the world" every year since Ike. We still do, to some extent. (signal to pile on)

We have Health Care in this country, albeit NOT what we hope to have 20 years from now. But, we FINALLY have a start. We wouldn't have, if we didn't have Obama in the White House. Don't kid yourself.

We have an automobile industry that survived a close encounter with the "willard-baine types" that were waiting to cannibalize the industry and swoop down and devour any future profits while busting the last of the major unions in the country. Don't fookin' kid yourself!

We've gotten OUT of Iraq (signal to pounce!), and we no longer have nightly lists of US military who died for absolutely NOTHING. Yes, we have the drone program that many would like to see halted, cause after all, we know things would mysteriously get better and the bad guys would probably see the light and realize that we really are not their enemy. I'm not crazy about the drone program, but I'm certainly not crazy about hearing about poor patriotic soldiers being blown to smithereens on a daily basis either. Pick your poison. Let the terrorist leaders live on to rehabilitate their feelings toward the US and the rest of the civilized Middle East? Sure thing.

We aren't out of Afghanistan, but we are close, and hopefully getting closer. Again, it's not a nightly news show on a list of poor saps that were ground up in the great meat machine for nothing. Same as above.

No Keystone Pipeline...yet. Had he not been there to veto the bill, you can figure out the rest. Maybe it will eventually happen...but not until a lot of questions are answered and a lot of regulations and precautions are inserted, should it ever be approved. I personally hope it never is. Maybe it never will be. Wishful thinking (pounce)

No new wars: Libya. Syria, Afghanistan II, Egypt, etc. etc. (pile on, trolls) You get my drift. Has it been perfect? Hardly, but you get my point.

Relations are opening with Cuba, negotiations with Iran; ALL of these things would NOT be happening with a repuKKKe or 99% of any other democratic Presidents.

The list goes on and on. In regards to the TPP, I'm not at all enthused by the threat. Why the secrecy? I'm not condoning what's going on, but at the same time I understand the point of "do we want to help write the rules, or let China do it?" Think about that for a moment please. NAFTA was not what they promised. I doubt the TPP would be either. But we can address a lot of this with taxation and other rules and laws. We need to get the obstructionists OUT of Washington to get that done; but that's not Obama's fault.

This President is hardly a "pos". Please pull your heads out of your asses and come in touch with reality for a change. This is ONE MAN, with a President's limited power, trying to change the course of this giant ship. I know the bitchers and moaners could do better, or certainly have someone who could (in their imagination).

I'm damned proud of this President, and he's done an awful lot for this country in spite of fighting a torrential head wind by the opposition, AND gripers and growlers from his own political position.

Nuff said. OK...pile on, knit-pickers. I'm sure I didn't write a long enough book to express all my ideas perfectly, so the trolls can pounce and tell me what I was really thinking here.

[Egnever]

300. .

[Cha]

321. I'm so proud of President Obama, Hulk.. thank you! But, the "trojan horse" people would rather

fester and brew on their little CT than admit any of the reality that has happened these last 7 years.

The President has the respect of so many wonderful people.. and that he doesn't have it from those who would call him "a fucking pos used car salesman and Trojan horse".. says everything about them and nothing about President Obama.

It would be funny if it weren't so pathetic.

[Hekate]

332. I'm surprised we haven't met before, Hulk. Nice meeting you...

See you around.

[sheshe2]

333. This^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Really? A "pos"? I over react often, and I get pounced on at this site, or misread, or simply pulled into arguments where someone tries to tell me what I said and meant, when I am the ONLY ONE who knows wtf I meant.

snip

This President is hardly a "pos". Please pull your heads out of your asses and come in touch with reality for a change. This is ONE MAN, with a President's limited power, trying to change the course of this giant ship. I know the bitchers and moaners could do better, or certainly have someone who could (in their imagination).

I'm damned proud of this President, and he's done an awful lot for this country in spite of fighting a torrential head wind by the opposition, AND gripers and growlers from his own political position.

Bravo! Well said, Hulk.

Thank you~

[True Blue Door]

290. In the annals of deranged Tea Party-flavored conspiracy theories, this takes the cake.

You should be ashamed of yourself, and everyone who Recced this should too.

All except the Putin trolls, that is - they're just doing their job.

[Andy823]

292. Don't forget

The right wing trolls and the libertarian trolls, they are doing their job also. They all seem to love the guy who wrote it!

[True Blue Door]

293. Makes sense. There's definitely an Alex Jones wing around here putting out this crap.

[Hekate]

291. Shit, I put that author on ignore so I wouldn't have to see that spittle-flecked rage any more.

[Cha]

313. Gotcha!

[MuseRider]

294. Kick n/t

[Progressive dog]

297. The point of Trojan Horses is to hide,

but those Democrats put TPP in their platform. Who could have expected that a Democratic president would actually try to do anything in the Democratic platform? That's super sneaky.

[merrily]

362. The point of hide 'n seek is to hide. And find. And entertain kids. The Trojan horse symbolizes,

and is a metaphor for, much more than hiding.

I'm not getting into who is and who is not a Trojan horse. Just sticking to the story.

The goal was to infiltrate and destroy from within the gates. The Trojan horse was a tool to accomplish that. That it was presented as a gift, to signal the end of a siege, added to the treachery. Or to the wiliness, depending upon one's POV.

[Progressive dog]

368. The Democratic party has supported free trade

since before FDR. It specifically supported TPP in several platforms and bragged about NAFTA.
The only positive thing that can be said about the Trojan Horse name calling is that it is an improvement from the "POS used car salesman" that the same author previously called the winning Presidential candidate of the Democratic party.

[merrily]

379. Again, my post spoke only to the full meaning of the metaphor in general.

My post was purely literary, not political. I have no desire to get into some argument that dates back I have no idea when.

[BeanMusical]

327. Kick and R.

[nikto]

339. Obama sings James Taylor's hits ... (caution: satire)

If you are familiar with JT's hits, this may give you a chuckle ...

Link:

http://wearenotsoulsofunknownorigin.blogspot.com/2015/05/obama-sings-james-taylor.html

[JDPriestly]

343. I was afraid that the complexity of the issues that bring the motives of President

Obama and others in pushing this and the other trade deals would confuse people and prevent them from understanding how dangerous this trade deal (and NAFTA and the rest of them) really is. I am so happy to see people understanding and reacting to save our Constitution and our nation. I am skeptical as to whether we can succeed, but we need to keep trying.

About the trade courts, I can't wait to see a case go before the trade courts challenging the various professional associations and professional requirements that states establish for those wishing to practice their profession in a specific state.

Let's take, for example, the California Bar Association. The fail rate on the bar examination is quite high. What if someone in India wants to be able to practice regularly in courts in an American state, say California, without having to pass the bar examination. Might that be deemed a restraint of free trade? I suppose the lawyers writing these agreements right them to specifically exclude their own profession.

If we can't label beef with the name of the country of origin because it unfairly restrains trade, then why should we be able to limit who can practice not just law but medicine, etc.?

These trade agreements (which aren't all that much about tariffs but rather about letting as much foreign-made junk into the US as possible) are no good, and I'm glad to see Americans are realizing that fact.

And President Obama needs to listen to us on this. He is making a foolish mistake.

[Rex]

345. Why blame Obama for 30 years to trickle down economics? He didn't start the car.

I can't wait to see the reaction when it dawns on so many that control of the country sits way above the POTUS's head. In the hands of the non-governing 1%. I understand if it is hard to grasp the ideas of plutocracy. Blaming this current POTUS, is as bad as navel gazing...are we ever going to fix the problems or just keep blaming those that rotate in and out the WH door. Clearly they don't have the power to fix the system.

I guess every few terms we can blame a POTUS, but we ignore the system in place that for DECADES nobody has wanted to fix and has led us to economic meltdown and social unrest.

[davidpdx]

347. Shame on William Pitt

While I oppose the TPP adamantly, I do not believe the "Trojan Horse" theory. The "Trojan Horse" theory implies that Obama was simply a pawn put in the White House to pass whatever legislation big business wanted. It also implies that hes done nothing to help the nation.

Exhibit #1-William Pitt's rant and calling President Obama a piece of shit used car salesman.

This certainly might lead one to believe that William Pitt believes that Obama has done nothing of value in his tenure as president.

Exhibit #2-William Pitt is a member in good standing of DU, yet he didn't post the article or even respond anyone who commented on this thread it in the almost 24 hours after it is posted. Why?

I have in the last few months made some very kind remarks toward William Pitt. I regret making those because I come to the conclusion that he is not a sincere person.

One can oppose the president and leader of our party without out trashing him.

[RandySF]

351. ..

[sheshe2]

380. RandySF~

That is pitch perfect!

Bravo!!!!!!!!!!

[m-lekktor]

383. yep, there he is giving the finger to the %99

with his disgustingly shitty trade deal.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

390. Trashing yet another thread of racist-filled dribble.

[woo me with science]

391. K&R