Krugman: The Iraq invasion was worse than a mistake. It was a crime.

[seafan]

Paul Krugman in the New York Times today:

.....

Thanks to Jeb Bush, we may finally have the frank discussion of the Iraq invasion we should have had a decade ago.

But many influential people — not just Mr. Bush — would prefer that we not have that discussion. There’s a palpable sense right now of the political and media elite trying to draw a line under the subject. Yes, the narrative goes, we now know that invading Iraq was a terrible mistake, and it’s about time that everyone admits it. Now let’s move on.

Well, let’s not — because that’s a false narrative, and everyone who was involved in the debate over the war knows that it’s false. The Iraq war wasn’t an innocent mistake, a venture undertaken on the basis of intelligence that turned out to be wrong. America invaded Iraq because the Bush administration wanted a war. The public justifications for the invasion were nothing but pretexts, and falsified pretexts at that. We were, in a fundamental sense, lied into war.

.....

This was, in short, a war the White House wanted, and all of the supposed mistakes that, as Jeb puts it, “were made” by someone unnamed actually flowed from this underlying desire. Did the intelligence agencies wrongly conclude that Iraq had chemical weapons and a nuclear program? That’s because they were under intense pressure to justify the war. Did prewar assessments vastly understate the difficulty and cost of occupation? That’s because the war party didn’t want to hear anything that might raise doubts about the rush to invade. Indeed, the Army’s chief of staff was effectively fired for questioning claims that the occupation phase would be cheap and easy.

.....

On top of these personal motives, our news media in general have a hard time coping with policy dishonesty. Reporters are reluctant to call politicians on their lies, even when these involve mundane issues like budget numbers, for fear of seeming partisan. In fact, the bigger the lie, the clearer it is that major political figures are engaged in outright fraud, the more hesitant the reporting. And it doesn’t get much bigger — indeed, more or less criminal — than lying America into war.

.....

This is truly the discussion we have never had as a country. So many of our voices were shouted down and marginalized in 2002, while the giggling murderer and his minions greased the road to war. Giggler's father beat up on Iraq in the early 1990s. Giggler's brother was a signing member of the Project for the New American Century (PNAC) Statement of Principles, well ahead of time, in the pursuit of U. S. global dominance.


Photograph: Matthew Cavanaugh/EPA/Corbis, via The Guardian


Now we have ISIS, Messrs. Bush.

[think]

1. It is high time we had a frank discussion regarding the Iraq war and it's deleterious effects

[daleanime]

5. Definitely....

[sarge43]

20. OK. One effect that is seldom mentioned

http://www.artsjournal.com/hotissues/20030418-4943.shtml

Right up there with G. Khan's lads destroying the Great Library of Baghdad.

[JDPriestly]

59. Has the stolen treasure turned up?

I would first look in Saudi Arabia. That's my guess.

[sarge43]

61. Certainly

What they didn't scoop up went to the high end one percenters.

[seafan]

73. 'How the US sent $12bn in cash to Iraq. And watched it vanish' (from a foreign paper, of course)

From 2007:

Pallets of shrink-wrapped cash disappear in Iraq.


An armed guard poses beside pallets of $100 bills in Baghdad. Almost $12bn in cash was spent by the US-led authority (via UK Guardian)

Gawd, this is making my blood boil AGAIN.

[Skittles]

68. looke how much time has been devoted to Benghazi

but the Iraq war? They act like it never happened.

[billhicks76]

76. Hillary

She has no right to be annointed. She helped take us to war. She should be shunned like the plague for it.

[CTyankee]

2. Krugman is on a mission here. He's pissed, having devoted two whole columns

in rapid succession and getting angrier and angrier.

Good! I'm glad to see it! Sometimes you just have to get your anger out and I can't think of a better reason than the recklessness of starting this war and then the simpering about it later by Bushies.

[hfojvt]

38. I think he is wrong to call it "obvious"

to millions of Americans, it was not obvious, and a good part of the promotion of the invasion seemed to come at least as much from members of the media as it did from the administration.

Even CBS news and Dan Rather. For months before the invasion, they opened their nightly newscast with a segment they called "countdown to war". One thing about countdowns, is that they are sort of inevitable 10-9-8-7-6-5-4-3-2-1 and off we go. So basically for months, telling the public that watched CBS "there is gonna be war with Iraq, it's only a matter of time".

Pretty clear to me that the powers that be in the media wanted this war, they knew it would be good for ratings.

[JDPriestly]

60. I think that Dan Rather was waylaid and lost his job because of his interview with Saddam

Hussein on the eve of the invasion. In that interview, Saddam Hussein came across as being very honest when he said he did not have WMDs.

I think we should go back and watch that interview in the light of what has transpired since.

Here is a Google search page of links to that speech and articles about it.

https://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=AwrSbgZDQlpVAVoAtjal87UF;_ylc=X1MDOTU4MTA0NjkEX3IDMgRmcgN0aWdodHJvcGV0YgRncHJpZANubTJpLlUyRlJHdVoxNkl5M1N4Nk1BBG5fcnNsdAMwBG5fc3VnZwMyBG9yaWdpbgNzZWFyY2gueWFob28uY29tBHBvcwMxBHBxc3RyA2RhbiByYXRoZXIgaW50ZXJ2aWV3IHdpdGggc2FkZGFtBHBxc3RybAMzMgRxc3RybAM0MARxdWVyeQNkYW4gcmF0aGVyIGludGVydmlldyB3aXRoIHNhZGRhbSBodXNzZWluBHRfc3RtcAMxNDMxOTc4NTc1?p=dan+rather+interview+with+saddam+hussein&fr=tightropetb&fr2=sa-gp-search&type=11051_112414&iscqry=

I remember watching it and thinking that he was telling the truth. It was a shock to me.

I was working long hours and glancing at a newspaper in the morning at the time. I was one of the numb who was not paying attention and did not realize the hoax that was going on. I have an excuse. Hillary does not. Checking the facts and making a good decision were part of her job. She voted for the War Resolution.

Fortunately, Bernie Sanders was in Congress and did not vote for that war. He has a clean record in that regard. Good judgment and no responsibility for the horrible crime that was committed.

[TheNutcracker]

63. True, and our elected leaders KNEW info was false even if citizens did not.

[shadowmayor]

81. Gunga Dan

I remember the interview. Yet just tonight, Dan was on Rachel's show and called the Iraq invasion a mistake - not a Crime with a capital C. He also mentioned how tens of thousands of Iraqi's had lost their lives whereupon Rachel interrupted him and stated hundreds of thousands. Can we say that this war crime has cost over 1 million Iraqi lives, trillions of our dollars and chaos in the Middle East like we never imagined? He acted like he's still getting paid to spew the crap coming from his teleprompter.

Until we start speaking honestly about this nation's actions; that the war was a crime and the costs horrific, it's all just political pablum spouted by Jeb, Fox Noise, and sadly what passes for "librul" news on the idiot box!

The Shadow Mayor

[JDPriestly]

87. Thanks.

[bvar22]

3. It is good to finally hear someone like Krugman, with millions of readers,

FINALLY talking about the criminality of the Iraq Invasion,
instead of just a"mistake".

Tee-hee-heee, could have happened to anyone. Oh Well. Lets move on.

The Invasion/Occupation of Iraq was a serious WAR CRIME, and the criminals
should pay the price.

[erronis]

14. But it was just a joke, don't you get it?

Sort of like we Yalies used to play on each other.

Bush looking for WMD under the carpet:

Until this family is broken of its privilege and ownership mentality, we will continue to suffer from its sophomoric and deadly approaches to life.

[Bohunk68]

95. Caused my blood to boil when I saw it.

It was blatantly in-your-face-fuck-you chutzpah I have ever seen. The summbitch admitted right then and there that it was a farce, and laughed with his audience about it. I soo want to see this thing and it's compadres in orange jumpsuits and chains.

[Dont call me Shirley]

99. “If the American people knew what we have done, they would string us up from the lamp posts.” -Geor

“If the American people knew what we have done, they would string us up from the lamp posts.”

-George H.W. Bush

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/04/03/1199001/-Jeb-Bush-Oliver-North-and-the-Murder-of-CIA-Drug-Smuggler-Barry-Seal-in-1986#

[Demeter]

4. One Crime (Stolen Election) Set the Stage for So Many Others

Start at the beginning, and root out the malign system that's taken over this country.

[seafan]

9. After 15 years, it still makes me physically ill.

Jeb's role in Election 2000 is a highly relevant place for mainstream media to dive into, at long last. (Valuable links are downthread.)

[dougolat]

30. Good look at the sordid story, thanks. ...nt

[heaven05]

13. +1000

the start of terror....

[MisterP]

16. and how they had the Patriot Act ready to go in 48 hours

as in, it didn't even NEED to be 9-11--it could've just been, like, a dam break or a cartel shootout in the Keys

[OnyxCollie]

28. The SCOTUS opened the door to autocratization.

Democratization and the Danger of War Author(s): Edward D. Mansfield and Jack Snyder Reviewed work(s):Source: International Security, Vol. 20, No. 1 (Summer, 1995), pp. 5-38

{W}e argue that threatened elites from the collapsing autocratic regime, many of whom have parochial interests in war and empire, use nationalist appeals to compete for mass allies with each other and with new elites. In these circumstances, the likelihood of war increases due to the interests of some of the elite groups, the effectiveness of their propaganda, and the incentive for weak leaders to resort to prestige strategies in foreign affairs in an attempt to enhance their authority over diverse constituencies. Further, we speculate that transitional regimes, including both democratizing and autocratizing states, share some common institutional weaknesses that make war more likely. At least in some cases, the link between autocratization and war reflects the success of a ruling elite in using nationalist formulas developed during the period of democratization to cloak itself in populist legitimacy, while dismantling the substance of democracy

~snip~

{P}ublic opinion often starts off highly averse to war. Rather, elites exploit their power in the imperfect institutions of partial democracies to create faits accomplish, control political agendas, and shape the content of information media in ways that promote belligerent pressure-group lobbies or upwellings of militancy in the populace as a whole.

Once this ideological connection between militant elites and their mass constituents is forged, the state may jettison electoral democracy while retaining nationalistic, populist rhetoric.

~snip~

it is striking that many of the groups with an interest in retarding democratization are also those with a parochial interest in war, military preparation, empire, and protectionism. This is not accidental. Most of the benefits of war, military preparations, imperial conquest, and protectionism-e.g., in career advancement or in protection from foreign economic competition-are disproportionately concentrated in specific groups.41 Any special interest group, including the military, that derives parochial benefits from a public policy has to feel wary about opening up its affairs to the scrutiny and veto of the average voter, who pays for subsidies to special interests. Whenever the costs of a program are distributed widely, but the benefits are concentrated in a few hands, democratization may put the program at risk.

[JDPriestly]

41. Very interesting and supported by historical evidence. Thanks.

Interestingly, Theodore Roosevelt was a warrior before becoming our president. Yet, he actively furthered the development of our democracy with several measures he sponsored that became law.

He was not the most liberal of his time by any means. But he had a social conscience which developed when he was on the police commission in New York. He seemed able to bridge the divide between the social activists and the oligarchic militarists. That is very interesting to me.

I don't expect another Theodore Roosevelt. He was, as your article establishes, an anomaly.

But we might get another FDR if we set the stage.

[BlindTiresias]

98. Another FDR is unlikely too

[JDPriestly]

103. When injustice gets really bad in the US, someone comes along, someone who is not expected.

But Bernie is right. It takes a mass movement to prepare the way.

[stuffmatters]

70. Bushes stopped the vote count and the UN inspections

Obstructed due process when it wasn't going to their script. Gore won the Fla vote & the UN would have reported no WMDs.
And wasn't their goal in all the torture to get info to find WMD, to justify their crime of invasion?

Remarkable how little the MSM has reported the final facts. I think most Repubs don't know Gore won Fla or the WMDS
never existed.

So good Jeb's candidacy is forcing light here. I doubt he calculated this fallout of truth into the mainstream.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

83. yep....

I remember what that night felt like....

[Fred Sanders]

6. Also criminal was the way the "free" press negligently and willfully gave up it's constitutionally

protected role as guardians of democracy. And they have still given it up.

Give up your responsibility, why should you have your protections?

The only business named in the constitution is no longer a business, it is a political tool owned by political interests uninterested in the Constituion.

[Duval]

12. Absolutely correct. nt

[staggerleem]

27. The "truth" ...

... is MUCH harder to sell than a sexy lie, Fred.

The media doesn't "report" news anymore - they "sell" us what their sponsors think about the news,which is what said sponsors are very concerned that WE should think, as well!

[bvar22]

45. There were ways to get information... one being the foreign press.

The reports from the UN Weapons inspectors was unequivocal.

DU served as a great Collection House of information NOT available in the US MSM.
Of course, we also had war supporters here too, mostly Kerry and Hillary acolytes.

[Enthusiast]

50. +1

[sulphurdunn]

7. George Orwell : 'The further a society drifts from truth

the more it will hate those who speak it.'

We as a society have moved far beyond that. We just ignore those who speak it.

[Enthusiast]

49. +1

[TheNutcracker]

64. +2

[harun]

90. +3

[polly7]

8. I think the creation of ISIS was a PNAC'ers dream come true.

Perpetual war, and always the newest enemy to keep it going - forever.

[Fred Sanders]

17. ISIS sure is fucking Wolf Blitzer's and CNN's wet dream come true. American TV TerrorVision needs ISIS.

And for Fox ISIS is more than a dream, they are a gift direct from Bush and company.
Shame to waste such a gift exploitable to create even more fear.

[bvar22]

23. If ISIS didn't exist,

it would be necessary for the warmongers to invent it.

[Fred Sanders]

26. I get what you mean, but not really. Fear of Iran and N.K. and "Muslims" is pre-bottled, for example.

[bvar22]

48. I don't think so.

The generals are happy with an expensive WAR that has no borders,
no defined enemy,
no way to WIN (perpetual WAR),
and no exit strategies.



We aren't about to go to war with a nuclear armed country (N.K.),
and Iran is a BIG BOY on that block.

[Enthusiast]

47. I suspect they did invent it to a degree.

There just isn't a large enough enemy in the world today to justify this massive US military excess. It's as if we're preparing for a war with the rest of the world. We have taken foreign entanglements to a record level. WTF?

[lonestarnot]

10. Hell yes it was!

[Iliyah]

11. K & R

[johnnyreb]

15. Thank you Paul Krugman!! CRIME.

We must bring Justice if we are ever to complete our mission to Earth.

[deutsey]

18. Huge K&R

[Martin Eden]

19. **The fraudulence of the case for war was actually obvious even at the time**

And:

Now, you can understand why many political and media figures would prefer not to talk about any of this. Some of them, I suppose, may have been duped: may have fallen for the obvious lies, which doesn’t say much about their judgment. More, I suspect, were complicit: they realized that the official case for war was a pretext, but had their own reasons for wanting a war, or, alternatively, allowed themselves to be intimidated into going along. For there was a definite climate of fear among politicians and pundits in 2002 and 2003, one in which criticizing the push for war looked very much like a career killer.

Hillary Clinton falls into one of those categories, all of which are an automatic disqualification in the Democratic primary as far as I'm concerned.

[Live and Learn]

24. +1 nt

[seafan]

72. I will NEVER forget David Gregory plaintively mewling in 2008, "Where was public opinion?"

David Gregory and those of his ilk are directly responsible for the mass confusion of Americans in the engineered invasion of Iraq that the Bush White House cooked up in the shadows.

That type of "journalism" is a grave insult to the millions of U. S. citizens he continually failed to inform accurately, as our president and his administration lied to us.

But David likes to dance.


White House Senior Advisor Karl Rove (R) performs a rap dance alongside NBC White House correspondent David Gregory during the entertainment section of the annual Radio and Television Correspondents Association dinner at a hotel in Washington.
March 30, 2007

[loooneranger]

21. The only candidate D or R currently running for president

who voted for the war is Hillary. I'm not sure how this new focus on why we went into Iraq is helping us.

[staggerleem]

25. Howzabout ...

... if it results in putting SOMEBODY (Dubya, Cheney, Rumsfeld -I could go on, but at least someone!?) to PRISON for lying the country into war? Would THAT help "us"?

Another possibly helpful exercise - take yourself back to that time and ask yourself "What would (insert name of 2016 Republican candidate here) have done?" Would ANY of them have voted NO? Doubtful, ain't it? Even Rand Paul's daddy voted yes.

[JDPriestly]

65. "Us?" It is one of the major reasons that I do not support and will not vote for Hillary.

"Us" at this point includes those of us who are backing Bernie Sanders and/or Elizabeth Warren.

Hillary does not have that nomination sewn up. By no means.

And this controversy over the Iraq War and what could have been known had Hillary tried to find it out is important.

She could easily lose over this and a number of other issues.

I have no problem with Hillary Clinton as a person.

But politically, I do not trust her. She was not a good candidate in 2008. She voted for the Iraq War Resolution even though the Code Pink women warned her that it would not be wise to invade Iraq.

Bernie Sanders did not vote for the Iraq War Resolution. He is an independent and does not sell himself to the highest corporate bidders. I'm for him.

[mike_c]

86. that's why HRC is unfit for office....

As was John Kerry. They helped facilitate crimes against humanity, a war of aggression. Somewhere in the neighborhood of one million innocent Iraqis died so they could advance their political careers. I'll bet they even felt solemn when they committed those Iraqis to death. The same is true of Bush and his administration, of course. They should all be prosecuted for war crimes, IMO.

[loooneranger]

96. I agree. Hillary is toxic for a number of reasons.

I don't know why she is just supposed to be anointed as the nominee.

[freebrew]

100. $$$$$$$$$$$$...nt

[staggerleem]

22. In a part of Krugman's piece not quoted above ...

... the question of WHY the bush administration wanted a major war at that time was posed. A few possible answers were posited, but the one given in the book Dubya "wrote" before his Presidential campaign (with REAL author, Mickey Herskovitz), "A Charge To Keep", was not presented.

In the book, Dubya said that as a successful "Wartime President", one gains "political capital" that can be quickly converted into policy initiatives. His father, he want on to say, missed this opportunity, but he would not. If he were a successful Wartime President, he stated, he would use his capital to launch the privatization of Social Security.

And so while the war itself was awful enough, if the war effort had been successful, but the '08 crash still occurred (likely, as the housing bubble and the war were essentially unrelated) we actually might be WORSE off today!

[Octafish]

29. Well said, Dr. Professor Krugman.

Thanks for the heads-up, seafan! The BFEE wants to make such posts a crime. As a guy labeled "conspiracy theorist" once noticed:

[font color="purple"]Judge Lawrence Silberman wants you to believe that even thinking "Bush lied" is tantamount to the treason that gave rise to Hitler and the NAZIs.[/font color]

How's that for making the official record "Right"?

-- Know your BFEE: Judge Laurence Silberman, Go-To Guy of the Military Industrial Complex

Best of all: Great to read You!

[seafan]

75. Ray McGovern picks apart the "Bad Intel" Defense on Iraq. LIES we were fed, so Bush could invade.

The Phony ‘Bad Intel’ Defense on Iraq

Thanks for the Silberman link, Octafish. Isn't it mind-boggling how these guys are salted everywhere?

Keep on going after 'em!

Jeb will have many more bad days ahead for his 'non-campaign' campaign, now that he admits his big bro feeds him his foreign policy points, and has named nearly all of W's war advisers to his own "administration-in-waiting".

Not so fast, Jeb.

[Phlem]

31. Letting them off with out

recourse was yet another crime.

[DCBob]

32. excellent article.

[swilton]

33. As 'W' Infamously Said

"Bring It On!"



And this means holding Democrats accountable as well!

[yellowcanine]

34. Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz all should be prosecuted for war crimes.

The Gang of Four should not get away with this.
And Karl Rove for obstruction of justice.

[Doctor_J]

35. it's a shame that the executive branch doesn't have a DEPARTMENT to administer JUSTICE

when crimes are committed. The jails would be full of BFEE members and bankers instead of pot smokers

[Enthusiast]

44. +1 a whole bunch!

[ladjf]

36. The World is fortunate to have such good thinkers and writers as Dr. Krugman. nt

[Cleita]

37. The one in the middle needs to be sitting alongside his VP, Dick Cheney, in the dock

at the Hague charged with war crimes. Oh, yeah and make some space for Rummy and Condi, but I'll bet they will plead that they were just following orders.

[Enthusiast]

43. +1

[Freelancer]

39. If there is a discussion, it will only be with ourselves

There's no use arguing with people for whom it is more important to be steadfast than to be right -- the "from my cold, dead hands" people (Heston -- NRA speech). Being shown that they've been duped might move some, but their immunity to facts grows with every Fox News broadcast.

Many have become true right wingers and are impervious to anything or anyone that might jar them one iota. They are willing to excise you from their lives if you even make the attempt. This I know from experience. All but 2 members of my family have completely frozen me out because I can't agree with the Republican take on the Iraq War, or the world.

If GOP-ers are willing to sacrifice their relationship to a nephew, or a cousin that they grew up with because they stepped out of the Fox News bubble, what impassioned speech, slogan, pamphlet, or pie chart can move them?

[Enthusiast]

42. They have partaken of the koolaid.

[Freelancer]

66. Yep

[Enthusiast]

40. Kicked and recommended to the Max!

Looking forward was a mistake that has been compounded many times over. But realistically what could President Obama have done? Maybe we will at least have a court of public opinion on Iraq.

The worst thing is these same right wing miscreants are willing to do the same thing all over again, this time in Iran.

[rhett o rick]

85. At least Pres Obama could have done is to condemn the war that killed a million of innocent

people. He didn't have to blame anyone directly but could have made it clear that that war was a mistake that should never happen again. But I have a feeling that The Powers That Be told him in no uncertain terms to back off.

[Enthusiast]

88. I have the same feeling on the PTB. Shut up or die and your little dog too.

This is one crazy world. I am starting to mutter to myself, "WTF? WTF? WTF? WTF?"

[Stevepol]

46. Yes, Yes, a million times Yes!!

One thing that does indeed "trickle down" is morality. When the leaders are wanton, deliberate liars who get away with it day after day, and even people of below average intelligence and insight can sense they are being lied to, what are the common folk, the average citizens, to think? What should they be expected to do? How will they handle their own interpersonal affairs? Not to mention the average businessman or the average corporate executive?

[malaise]

51. All three are war criminals

Great pic.

Rec

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

52. And, many politicians are lining up to make the Good German defense. "We didn't know."

[JonLP24]

53. Calling it a mistake really depends on what the actual mission

Dick Cheney saw it coming

Al-Maliki, the guy they appointed to be Prime Minister of Iraq was already torturing & imprisoning Sunni civilians liberally using the anti-terrorism laws that came with the new government which allows for indefinite detention & suspending the rule of law, so they had advance warning this therefore the "quagmire" but right now there are Exxon Mobile contracts at the Super Giant oil fields near the Kuwait border & multinational oil contracts in Kurdistan. ISIS threatens that but since the Baji refinery is always taken back then retaken -- they aren't worried because they aren't anywhere near down south. Plus, they are helpful in Syria -- remember when the US bombed the oil fields that ISIS took over? The targets were in Syria so they were bombing oil fields they were always happy to happen. Assad nationalizes oil, he briefly let the British multinationals in like 2011 or so but were quickly kicked right around the time the US softened then turned around and accused them of nuclear black market deals with Iran (who deals with the country we say nothing about who give out the oil contracts. The Sykes Picot borders were designed to break up the Aleppo-Kuwait City historical trade route. There is probably a bigger get rich quick scheme there but maybe not, the US is consistent on countries that nationalize oil, particularly if they use it to decrease poverty & illiteracy -- you do that you're called the world's worst dictator. Privitization can also be used to put the money into your pocket which the US is OK with if you put the money in their pockets as well. Any socialist-Marxist or any populist movements -- you know where the money is probably not going into your pockets (if you're a CEO or similar sort of businessman)

[DhhD]

102. Please note that the pipelines have remained intact throughout wartimes since 1915 or so.

[grasswire]

54. TRUTH TO POWER

Preach it, Paul!!!

[bobjacksonk2832]

55. Krugman is spot on with his statement

Unfortunately, too many Americans still buy into the lies of the right. That's the sad truth.

[leveymg]

56. It isn't a crime until someone gets indicted for it. And who will order that? Obama? Hillary? Jeb?

Last edited Tue May 19, 2015, 05:53 AM - Edit history (1)

At worst, Iraq remains a political liability, to as much degree as the Bush lack plausible deniability for their dirty deeds and retain a desire to publicly rule America.

Love that photo - looks like three men who ate crow, muy caliente.

[hifiguy]

57. Nice pic.

Evil, Evil and Stupid, and Evil.

This family should be extirpated root and branch from American public life. In PERPETUITY.

[rogerashton]

58. Thing is, they have to have KNOWN there were no WMD.

I pretty much drank the kool-aid that he had WMD (but did not see war as the solution, and opposed it anyway.) But I remember -- I was driving somewhere in Delaware when I heard that we were massing troops for the invasion in Kuwait -- and I was thinking, this is crazy -- a concentrated invasion force in Kuwait is the perfect target for a couple small nukes or a dirty-bomb. Bad strategy unless the commander knew for a fact that no such weapons existed.

I'm ashamed to say that slipped by me until now. If GWB did not know that there were no WMDs, the strategy would have been first to knock out the WMDs by air power and only then to mass for an invasion.

[TheNutcracker]

62. Now, Rubio is running on 'A New American Century'....dropping the 'project' word

And the think tank PNAC was dismantled when bush left office.

[Skittles]

67. THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU

WHAT THE FUCK TO THE APOLOGISTS NOT GET ABOUT HOLDING THOSE BASTARDS ACCOUNTABLE?????

[Stevepol]

91. In the face of so many lies, being duped is understandable.

Everybody has his Aha! moment in regard to the absolute immorality and incompetence of the Bush-Cheney administration. Mine came in the fall of 2002 when I watched "W" with Tony Blair at his side at Camp David tell some reporters that the IAEA, in its latest report, had said that in a year Iraq could have the bomb. I remember thinking, Well maybe Bush is right. If Hussein develops a nuclear bomb, the world will be in dire straits. He's certainly a bad actor, a villainous tyrant, at least from all the reports of the news agencies.

Then, a couple weeks later, I found out that some genius reporter for the Washington Times of all news outlets had actually had the temerity and unbelievable mental genius to think, Well gosh, why don't I call the IAEA and find out about this report? So he did and found out of course that the IAEA had made no such statement. In fact, the latest report on the state of Iraq's nuclear R&D had said that Iraq wouldn't be able even to start the program for five years because they didn't have the capacity to make enough fissionable material or gather the technology necessary to put it together, and that would assume that they made an all-out push to do so. In other words, Bush out of thin air just made up a fact that had no relationship to reality. Later, somebody asked a Bush spokesman about where Bush got this so-called "fact," and the spokesman cited some article I believe in an obscure British journal that suggested this idea. Supposedly people were supposed to believe that "W," who said himself he never read newspapers, would search out an obscure British journal is of course not a thought that any sane observer would entertain.

After that, I realized that everything coming out of the mouths of the Bushies would be a lie unless proven by entirely scrupulous sources to be true. The press I believe was completely servile in the face of the most immoral administration in American history, on a scale I believe to compare with the fascists that led Germany into WWII. With so many outright lies coming from the government from so many different directions, it was very hard for the average Joe to realize what was happening. Being duped was understandable.

[KansDem]

71. Throw them in prison for a long, long time.

For some reason GitMo comes to mind...

[BeanMusical]

74. Kick and R.

[Warren DeMontague]

77. I certainly think anyone who voted for that turd

ought to answer questions from the press about it.

[Gothmog]

78. Prof. Krugman has some great remarks

[Stargazer09]

79. High time for a war crimes tribunal

That's what I want to see.

Not another damn Bush running for President.

[Caretha]

80. The Iraq invasion was worse than a mistake. It was a crime

May I add....

No SHIT Sherlock

[polynomial]

82. Iraq is a crime accompanied with economic forces

Krugman finally taking the first step to explicate that major political figures are engaged in outright fraud is refreshing.

To analyze this idea or principle in detail between crime accompanied with economic forces is some of his best essays.

For the first time in our Constitutional history an American president, George W. Bush should be challenged for crimes with the complicity of state governments that exercise the use of the National Guard for Regular Army operations.

It’s my personal belief that action in itself was unconstitutional or criminal is in the sense America installed an illegal government and proceeded to hang Saddam Hussein, and terrorize current leaders of a sovereign state to cover up past secret deals that are criminal.

George W. Bush, likely with his father’s coaching, definitely with Cheney’s serious intentions to do this war again via Jeb Bush.

The mainstream media likely will not report on this subject with any integrity for the lies and complicity run so deep in family and business connections there is the likely hood many very prominent families would go bankrupt. They should…

[JEB]

84. K&R for the original post and subsequent informative posts and links.

[Scuba]

89. Yes, and millions of us knew it. It's simply not plausible that those who voted for this war ...

... were "mistaken."

[Bohunk68]

97. At that time, I used to listen to WAMC, the

NPR station in Albany, NY and guided by Alan Chartok. He kept us all informed, highly informed, of the travesty that was being perpetuated. Even to the point of having on the air the gentleman who had been part of the commission searching for the weapons. A gentleman that was later alleged to have had illilcit contact with a teenager. We knew. Some of us had even seen the program on Nightline with Ted Koppel that told of the PNAC and its plans. Yes, many of us knew.

[bigwillq]

92. K and R (nt)

[Vattel]

93. Bush came into office planning to go to war in Iraq.

Unfortunately, when the president wants war, he or she can usually find a way to get one. The dishonesty about WMDs and about Iraq's ties to Al Qaeda, was all part of the evil-yes I am comfortable with the term--game that scumbags like Bush play.

[yellowwoodII]

94. It's Happening Again. Get Ready

The same people who promoted the Iraq War are now busily promoting conflict with Iran. They are using ISIS terrorists to indicate that all Muslims are untrustworthy. Unfortunately, most Americans get their news from Fox which follows this line.

People like Senator Tom Cotton and Senator Mark Kirk are paid well to promote conflict, part of the "softening up" process for more sanctions against Iran which can only lead to more hostility between our countries.

Fooled you once! Don't get fooled again!

PNAC is alive and well.

[IHateTheGOP]

101. Firing squad

Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld should be in prison awaiting execution for war crimes, crimes against humanity, violations of international treaties, violations of the US Constitution, and the murder of a million innocent civilians in Iraq.

[DallasNE]

104. Somehthing Always Glossed Over

Is that the resolution authorizing military action had a clause limiting that action to Saddam not giving the UN weapons inspectors full access to the sites of the inspectors choice. As near as I can tell Saddam was not in violation of the UN resolution at the time Bush ordered the UN inspectors to leave Iraq. I believe Hans Blix has said as much.

In other words, the war Bush started was not the war Congress authorized so where is the legal foundation for the war Bush started? There is none. And Bush was aware of this liability because he twice said in public that Saddam wouldn't let the inspectors in so he had no choice but to go to war. Never has Bush been challenged on those false statements.

http://www.commondreams.org/views/2008/12/02/bush-still-lies-about-iraqi-inspections

[LiberalLovinLug]

105. Great grandfather and grandfather could be included in the picture

A literal family of mass murderers. I still cannot wrap my head around the fact that instead of members of this family being incarcerated, like Preston for an attempted coup of the USA, or GW for lying the nation into war and the subsequent death and destruction.......they are regarded as some kind of royal family of US politics.

[asiliveandbreathe]

106. I have a lot of reading to do through

the list of trials at the hague -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_war_crimes

looks like a good read...perhaps someone could build - or are building the case against the Bush administration for this war crime....

Just one of many - On September 16, 2007, Blackwater military contractors shot and killed 17 Iraqi civilians in Nisour Square, Baghdad.[232] The fatalities occurred while a Blackwater Personal Security Detail (PSD) was escorting a convoy of US State Department vehicles en route to a meeting in western Baghdad with United States Agency for International Development officials. The shooting led to the unraveling of the North Carolina-based company, which since has replaced its management and changed its name to Xe Services. -

[seafan]

107. Thanks for everyone's great contributions to this thread. Remember Gandhi.

First, they ignore you....
Then, they laugh at you....
Then, they fight you....

Then, you win.

[1Greensix]

108. Falsifying intelligence to start a war is a war crime under International Law.

The German war trials of the 1940's established that falsifying intelligence to Start a war is a war crime. Bush and Cheney need to be judged with the same laws. If they are innocent, they shouldn't mind appearing before the International court in The Hague and proving it. Otherwise they should be indicted, arrested, jailed, arraigned and tried for the crimes they committed. If Clinton had started the same war he would be in Leavenworth Federal Prison for the rest of his life. The GOP would have made Damn sure of that.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

109. The Republicans want wars to be "a policy choice".