General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWill the "biker melee" be described as "white on white crime"?
Will the white community be asked to get its act together?
Inquiring minds want to know!!!
orpupilofnature57
(15,472 posts)Coventina
(27,120 posts)Is it a lack of white fathers in the home?
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)imnew
(93 posts)cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)Them bikers are everywhere... huh?
Coventina
(27,120 posts)and many other law enforcement agencies.
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)All white too.
Coventina
(27,120 posts)The point of my OP is that when groups of minority men have "events" like this, it's made out to be all about their ethnicity.
I doubt any of the reporting on this story will bring ethnicity into it.
White gangs are a problem, minority gangs are a problem.
But for some reason "white" gangs don't trigger discussions about problems in the larger "white" community.
SlimJimmy
(3,180 posts)Or is that more of a once in a while kind of thing? You can then see why one group would get more press than the other, and trigger discussions about it.
Coventina
(27,120 posts)violence amongst themselves.
Got it, thanks!
SlimJimmy
(3,180 posts)How many bikers kill innocent victims in drive by shootings in this country each week? It's not that they are not violent, they certainly are. But we don't have riots over this kind of thing when the bikers do it. If we did, then I'm absolutely certain it wold make the news. If you can't see the difference, then I can't help you.
Coventina
(27,120 posts)If YOU cannot see the difference in a community's reaction to the police using lethal force in an active gunfight versus the summary execution of unarmed youths then I cannot help YOU.
SlimJimmy
(3,180 posts)You do understand what the term means, right? This is one of the reasons I don't stay on DU all that much any longer. Unsubstantiated allegations that are widely accepted without a simple basis in truth. If you don't understand that, then I can't help you.
Coventina
(27,120 posts)My point remains that there's a HUGE difference between that and police firing on an active gunfight involving over 100 people.
SlimJimmy
(3,180 posts)Words matter, and you should choose yours more carefully in the future if you are to be taken seriously.
Coventina
(27,120 posts)You'd rather play word games.
phil89
(1,043 posts)numbers of white biker gang membership and inner city gang memberships?
Coventina
(27,120 posts)Thanks.
Matrosov
(1,098 posts)Wounded Bear
(58,654 posts)11 Bravo
(23,926 posts)Because HELL NO, it will not.
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)I'm glad no bystanders were hurt. Not going to cry over dead bikers.
Warpy
(111,259 posts)although once shooting started, cars likely got damaged and civilians had to dive for the walk in freezer in that sports bar.
This was an old fashioned gang fight.
Oktober
(1,488 posts)I saw several photos that would lead me to believe otherwise...
imnew
(93 posts)NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)Expect that fact to be ignored, though, because it will mess up a good talking point for some.
imnew
(93 posts)Do you or did you live in Texas?
tammywammy
(26,582 posts)Coventina
(27,120 posts)Bike gangs are almost always racially homogenous, and in fact, white supremacist ideology is on the rise in these gangs.
tammywammy
(26,582 posts)Clearly I know nothing other than what I saw on Sons of Anarchy about bikers. I figured since it was called bandido and this is Texas they'd be Hispanic. Thanks for the info.
Coventina
(27,120 posts)Just not the Bandidos.
imnew
(93 posts)Coventina
(27,120 posts)I've provided mine below.
I know members
I use to bartend in a biker bar in my younger years
Coventina
(27,120 posts)Sobax
(110 posts)Coventina
(27,120 posts)At DU, hearsay and anecdotal information is generally not regarded as reliable information.
I provided a well-respected (especially amongst liberals) news source for my post.
"I used to work at a biker bar" is not considered verifiable data.
imnew
(93 posts)The Bandidos mostly are the exception to this rule
They have many Hispanic and White members
Coventina
(27,120 posts)"the Bandidos recruits, like other similar biker gangs, are young men (women are barred) in their 20s, who are mostly white and often racist. "
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/may/18/bandidos-motorcycle-gang-bad-boy-reputation-waco-shootout
imnew
(93 posts)Gormy Cuss
(30,884 posts)Mostly white contradicts the statement that many are Hispanic. Perhaps there were many in the chapter you're familiar with.
imnew
(93 posts)At least we got past this point now.
What is the big deal
Would have the OP felt better if they were ALL WHITE as it was first stated incorrectly by the OP
Gormy Cuss
(30,884 posts)Are they a mostly white club ? If so, the OP is still accurate.
imnew
(93 posts)"Will the "biker melee" be described as "white on white crime"?
Will the white community be asked to get its act together?
Inquiring minds want to know!!!"
Gormy Cuss
(30,884 posts)When the situation is mostly blacks, it's described as black on black crime. Those Latinos and whites mixed in the crowd are ignored.
You're new here. Helpful hint: telling posters to give it a rest isn't an effective strategy.
Coventina
(27,120 posts)gratuitous
(82,849 posts)I think we need to be precise in our language: the fine fellows liberally enjoying their Second Amendment rights in Waco were "motorcyclists," not "bikers."
Thank you all.
Coventina
(27,120 posts)I think your ship has sailed.....
malaise
(268,998 posts)Remember it's only 1% of them, but it's all African-Americans who are profiled and accused of black on black violence
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)Even the dullards have a pretty good picture of what outlaw bikers are.
Gothmog
(145,231 posts)arcane1
(38,613 posts)If so, I missed it.
Renew Deal
(81,859 posts)NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)Assholes, gang bangers, criminals, etc. None of those pejoratives need be exclusive to any race.
Renew Deal
(81,859 posts)seveneyes
(4,631 posts)Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)Clearly the bikers grew up in fatherless households.
hunter
(38,311 posts)Especially them that ride motorcycles.
Me and my gearhead siblings' and shady acquaintances' beer brewing and motorized bicycle, moped, and antique motorcycle gang never got off the ground, even though we were among the potentially deadliest people in the state, some of us with day jobs in the Military Industrial Complex.
As a pacifist, I did my very best not to know too much about that.
pandr32
(11,583 posts)My husband is a WA member (not a gang member) who happens to be a veteran, and I can tell you that many in the club are veterans. In Texas and some of the other states there are many Hispanic members, too.
I cannot comment on what has happened. Real information is sketchy and many who would be considered witnesses were arrested...Rico don't ya know. That pretty much gives law enforcement carte blanche. Club members know their rights and will not speak to police, and likely not the biased press. What is interesting, though is what information is in the press, mostly through police sources. It looks like the police knew that a meeting was planned and showed up well-armed. Apparently a fight started inside, but went outside...normal behavior to take a problem outside. Could have been because some hothead got in someone's face, or a plant for all we know.
We also know that the owner of the establishment is biker friendly. He should not be malined because of it. Many business owners know that MC club members are good paying customers.
The dead are Bandidos and Cossacks from what we understand. It is also understood that the restaurant is full of shell casings and blood...interesting if the fight went outside. Perhaps the police know how that happened.
I find it highly unlikely that any bonifide club members would want to have a "dangerous" meeting or "recruitment" at a restaurant at a shopping mall. That's not how things go. First there are hang-arounds and then they become prospects. Bandidos are not desperate for members and only want guys that will be good "brothers" and are well vouched for. The stories make it sound like there is some kind of open recruitment contest. Baloney.
I also know that when my husband and others were returning to WA after a national meet across the country (at a private property where they mind their own business) and crossed into Idaho, State Troopers pulled them over for an alleged traffic infraction. They were held at the side of the highway while one trooper started to search them and a very young trooper kept a military grade AR-15 on them the whole time. Dogs were brought in to sniff all their stuff. One of the older members was handcuffed and put in the back of the patrol car with the windows up on a very hot day because the trooper said he smelled like marijuana. He did, but he also has a medical marijuana card. Many people drove by and took pictures. The troopers found nothing except proper gun permits because the Bandits know the laws and try very hard to stay on the right side of them. They were tired and on their way home to their families.
If that young trooper had panicked because someone reached in their pocket to grab a hankie...who knows what might have happened, but then we would have to depend on the cops version of events.
That takes me back to the "melee" in Waco. The crime scene is being processed by high level law enforcement. They have ample opportunity to make sure the scene fits their narrative and agenda.
I would caution everyone here.
Oktober
(1,488 posts)Last edited Mon May 18, 2015, 09:14 PM - Edit history (1)
I have yet to find an exception to this....
Beyond that your post is a bunch of rambling word salad of rationalization and conspiracy theory.
I say again... scum...
Are you comfortable with the fact that your husband is a member of a criminal organization who has, among other things, murder, drugs facilitation and rape on their list of 'accomplishments'?
AuntPatsy
(9,904 posts)Hope your husband is okay...
Coventina
(27,120 posts)the Bloods, and the Crips.
If that's being judgmental, then yeah, call me judgmental.
Coventina
(27,120 posts)which prides itself on being "the baddest of the bad" and we're supposed to have sympathy for him?
Try again.
DeadEyeDyck
(1,504 posts)Jus saying.... as them says.
NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)Your husband is a member of a roving gang of gun runners and murderers on par with the Brotherhood. Any veteran who gets involved with groups like these is an absolute fucking disgrace to the uniform we wore.
The Bandidos are murderers, and anyone who willingly associates with them or any other outlaw MC is scum.
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)I only saw a few pictures on the evening news, but it looked like several of the bikers in question were Hispanic.
JustAnotherGen
(31,823 posts)And I would like to know what has gone on in the mostly white a few Hispanics community that caused these boys to go for bad. Lack of a father? Broken home? Generations of people thinking this was a good idea? We're any of them high on pcp when this happened?
Boudica the Lyoness
(2,899 posts)So it's NOT white on white crime if they are not all white.
Here's a link to some of the faces of the bikers arrested.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3086950/The-mugshots-170-biker-gang-members-arrested-Waco-Texas-shootout-killed-nine-judge-orders-suspect-held-1million-bond.html
Coventina
(27,120 posts)"black on black" violence because they have white members too!!
So glad we finally live in a post-racial society!!
JustAnotherGen
(31,823 posts)I wonder if MS-13 allows whites, blacks, or Asians in it? Last I knew they were composed mostly of Central Americans with a high number of Salvadorans.
Boudica the Lyoness
(2,899 posts)Well done me...aye.
Coventina
(27,120 posts)I'd love to hear more about this place.
Boudica the Lyoness
(2,899 posts)Actually I live in the same world we all do - but without racism.
Coventina
(27,120 posts)There is not a society on this planet that is free of it.
Boudica the Lyoness
(2,899 posts)No I'm not a bigot. I've always been open to other people's thoughts, lifestyle, cultures etc. Of course there are people in the US who are intolerant of other people based on their race, gender whatever, but does that hold anyone back from being the best they can be? Of course it doesn't.
In the US, if you have what it takes, you can get to the top of your chosen profession no matter your background, gender, religion, race etc.
Coventina
(27,120 posts)If you are not willing to believe that, then you really are living in your own world.
Boudica the Lyoness
(2,899 posts)different than my white one. (I was married twice). He wasn't raised to feel like a victim and wallow in his victim-hood. He has retired from his first career and has started on his second. He's in his 40's btw. I married a black man in DC not long after Loving V Virginia.
We were treated nice and with great respect and besides some racism I experienced by a few black folk in DC, we never experienced racism.
I told my sons they could be anything they wanted to be - the sky's the limit. What the fuck was I supposed to tell my son?! 'Racism is not over. You are a victim and you will not amount to nothing because of your skin color'?
How do you think people are being effected by what is being spewed here? Maybe more people should take a page out of my book and stop telling people they are fucked simply because they are not 'privileged' to be white.
My son has worked hard, is law abiding, respectful and successful. I was right when I told him he could be anything he wanted to be. After all we do have a black president now.
Coventina
(27,120 posts)And things are getting better, but it doesn't change the fact that institutional racism is still a HUGE problem in this country.
Our first black president is evidence of both our successes and failures as a nation.
He has been the most obstructed and disrespected president in our nation's history.
Right wing talkers have pointed at Obama ever since 2008 as "proof" that racism doesn't exist anymore when really, we've had nothing BUT proof that it is still a big problem.
Boudica the Lyoness
(2,899 posts)What is going on here? What is the agenda?
You say, "And things are getting better"! Do you mean since segregation ended?
40 years ago at the hospital where my first son was born, the head obstetrician was black and so was the surgeon who preformed my emergency C Section.
Black folk were running many thing back then and still are.
If there is 'institutional racism' black folk have everything it takes to sort it out themselves. They are the majority of the population in some major US cities and are in control of many of those cities.
I see what you're doing when you say, "Right wing talkers have pointed at Obama ever since 2008 as "proof" that racism doesn't exist anymore..." and throwing the word 'bigot' around. Some are too quick to accuse good people of being racist and it stops meaningful conversations about race from ever getting started.
Rubbish about Obama being the most obstructed and disrespected president in the nations history! Clinton was stopped from going after Bin Laden by being accused of 'Wag the Dog'. They tried to impeach him over a private affair. Gore won the presidency and he was stopped from being president. Bush Jr was hated on a global scale though.
I don't need your 'scientific studies'. I raised two sons in America, both to successful adulthood. One black and one white and both were treated the same by society.....well actually I think the black was treated better if anything.
Coventina
(27,120 posts)Please don't put words in my mouth!
But, I'd like to know what agenda you think I have!
I'm wondering about yours as well!
You're basically saying that your unique experience in a bi-racial family represents the truth of the whole African American experience.
You're shrugging off the Department of Justice's findings JUST THIS YEAR of consistent racism in the cities of Cleveland and Ferguson. Not to mention "scientific studies" you shrug off in favor of one anecdotal experience. And, the voices of black intellectuals in this country.
It's great that you and your family have had a wonderful life free of prejudice. I wish EVERY African American in this country had your experience BUT THEY DON'T and it's not because they are "helpless."
And yes, when I see a right-wing talking point used on DU I'm going to refute it.
BKH70041
(961 posts)Predominantly white privileged thugs committing predominantly white on white crime.
Works for me, and it might get a few people to STFU.
Coventina
(27,120 posts)If there's "one drop" of non-white blood in the gang, it's no longer a white problem.
Funny it doesn't work the other way with whites in the Crips and Bloods...
Donald Ian Rankin
(13,598 posts)DeadEyeDyck
(1,504 posts)NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)romanic
(2,841 posts)Then again not all of them were white either.:/
treestar
(82,383 posts)Of course not!!!!!
It's absurd, isn't it?
Most white people will think of themselves as "non-bikers" who would never do things like that. Funny how they don't seem to see the subset of black people just like them.
Calista241
(5,586 posts)The cops clearly weren't afraid to shoot a bunch of them when this went down.