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Will the "biker melee" be described as "white on white crime"? (Original Post) Coventina May 2015 OP
I think it's a Biker Thing . orpupilofnature57 May 2015 #1
I wonder why so many white men choose the Biker lifestyle. Coventina May 2015 #4
Don't forget all that alcohol and drugs nadinbrzezinski May 2015 #5
Same reason street gangs like the crips the bloods , latin kings etc... do imnew May 2015 #8
"so many white men"... HOW many white men? cherokeeprogressive May 2015 #9
Enough to be a concern of the FBI Coventina May 2015 #14
Yeah I heard it was like eleventy hundred brazillion. cherokeeprogressive May 2015 #48
*sigh* You're missing the forest for the trees. Coventina May 2015 #58
Are there news stories about biker gangs killing innocent bystanders printed every weekend? SlimJimmy May 2015 #65
Oh I see, so white(ish) gangs are not a problem since they *mostly* contain their Coventina May 2015 #71
That's not what I said. SlimJimmy May 2015 #73
"We don't have riots over this kind of thing when the bikers do it." Coventina May 2015 #76
When did the police summarily execute unarmed youths? SlimJimmy May 2015 #78
Oh, gee sorry that I compared shooting unarmed people with executions. Coventina May 2015 #80
You should be sorry because they are not even remotely the same. SlimJimmy May 2015 #86
And of course you avoid the real issue. Coventina May 2015 #87
What are the phil89 May 2015 #56
please see my post #58 above. Coventina May 2015 #59
It was just "responsible gunowners" having a "difference of opinions" n/t Matrosov May 2015 #2
I kind of like... Wounded Bear May 2015 #3
Rhetorical question? 11 Bravo May 2015 #6
Maybe Criminal on Criminal crime? HooptieWagon May 2015 #7
I gave them kudos for taking it out in the parking lot Warpy May 2015 #10
Are they exclusively white? Oktober May 2015 #11
Many were Hispanic imnew May 2015 #12
I mentioned that too. NaturalHigh May 2015 #42
It seems it imnew May 2015 #43
The name Bandido would lead me to believe they weren't. n/t tammywammy May 2015 #13
The Bandidos got their inspiration from Mexican bandits, but were founded by white guys. Coventina May 2015 #17
Interesting tammywammy May 2015 #19
Yeah, it is interesting. Non-whites had to form their own clubs. So they are out there. Coventina May 2015 #21
They have many Hispanic members imnew May 2015 #23
Please post links detailing the ethnicity of the Bandidos' members. Coventina May 2015 #26
Links imnew May 2015 #27
So we're just supposed to take your word for it. Coventina May 2015 #34
As opposed to yours? Sobax May 2015 #69
Seeing as you are both new here, let me explain: Coventina May 2015 #70
Aren't all criminal gangs Mafia , Crips , Bloods , Latin Kings , MS 13 imnew May 2015 #22
From the Guardian: Coventina May 2015 #24
Key word mostly imnew May 2015 #33
Yes, just like the key word in your first post here was "many" Gormy Cuss May 2015 #35
Holy cow it's not some BIG secret they have a lot of Hispanic members imnew May 2015 #41
That's not what the OP said. Gormy Cuss May 2015 #44
Give it a rest ...The OP was wrong imnew May 2015 #45
Most of the bikers involved were white. Deflect all you want, but that's the truth. Gormy Cuss May 2015 #49
That's not at all what I said in the OP Coventina May 2015 #50
Will innocent bicyclists now be targeted by law enforcement? gratuitous May 2015 #15
Ask the average person on the street what they picture when you say "biker". Coventina May 2015 #20
Don't hold your breath malaise May 2015 #16
"Biker gunfight" seems to be pretty accurate. hifiguy May 2015 #18
That would be reasonable and appropriate and so the media will refuse to use this characterization Gothmog May 2015 #25
Will the shooters be called "thugs"? arcane1 May 2015 #28
I saw that term in another thread Renew Deal May 2015 #31
I will gladly call them thugs. NaturalHigh May 2015 #40
Do we know if that would be a true statement? Renew Deal May 2015 #29
Smoke and Lightning seveneyes May 2015 #30
Where are the leaders of the white community? Cali_Democrat May 2015 #32
White gangsters in the U.S.A. have a much higher social status than black or "Mexican" gangsters. hunter May 2015 #36
I am the wife of a Bandido pandr32 May 2015 #37
1%ers are scum.... Oktober May 2015 #38
TY Go Vols May 2015 #47
Thank you for posting, it needed to be heard, the judgmental bs was driving me crazy... AuntPatsy May 2015 #54
Law enforcement considers the Bandidos to be equally dangerous as the Aryan Brotherhood, Coventina May 2015 #60
So your husband is a member of a known criminal organization Coventina May 2015 #57
hope he writes home once he finds steady work DeadEyeDyck May 2015 #62
Oh spare us the conspiracy bullshit. NuclearDem May 2015 #63
Well, I don't think they were all white. NaturalHigh May 2015 #39
No JustAnotherGen May 2015 #46
NO they are not all white. Boudica the Lyoness May 2015 #51
Well, hey! That's great! I guess we can stop calling the Crips & Bloods feuds Coventina May 2015 #52
That's a really good point JustAnotherGen May 2015 #72
I've been living in a 'post-racial society' since the late 60's. Boudica the Lyoness May 2015 #74
Neat! What color is the sky in your world? Coventina May 2015 #77
It's regulation color - sorta blue and white. Boudica the Lyoness May 2015 #79
YOU may not be bigoted, but I assure you that society is. Coventina May 2015 #81
Bigoted? Boudica the Lyoness May 2015 #82
There are volumes upon volumes of scientific studies that say otherwise. Coventina May 2015 #83
I'm living in a world where my black son was never treated Boudica the Lyoness May 2015 #84
It sounds like you did a great job of raising your sons. Coventina May 2015 #85
Why are you trying to make out that black folk are helpless? Boudica the Lyoness May 2015 #88
I never said "black folk are helpless" Coventina May 2015 #89
Let's go all inclusive. BKH70041 May 2015 #53
Ha! No kidding. There seems to be a new kind of "one drop rule" at work in this thread. Coventina May 2015 #55
I very much doubt if the majority of them could be called "privileged" in any sane sense of the word Donald Ian Rankin May 2015 #68
oh those thugs DeadEyeDyck May 2015 #61
I'm just fine with scum on scum crime. NuclearDem May 2015 #64
No. romanic May 2015 #66
Well no treestar May 2015 #67
I'm pretty sure that these bikers are heavily profiled by the cops. Calista241 May 2015 #75

Coventina

(27,120 posts)
58. *sigh* You're missing the forest for the trees.
Mon May 18, 2015, 09:20 PM
May 2015

The point of my OP is that when groups of minority men have "events" like this, it's made out to be all about their ethnicity.

I doubt any of the reporting on this story will bring ethnicity into it.

White gangs are a problem, minority gangs are a problem.
But for some reason "white" gangs don't trigger discussions about problems in the larger "white" community.

SlimJimmy

(3,180 posts)
65. Are there news stories about biker gangs killing innocent bystanders printed every weekend?
Tue May 19, 2015, 12:41 AM
May 2015

Or is that more of a once in a while kind of thing? You can then see why one group would get more press than the other, and trigger discussions about it.

Coventina

(27,120 posts)
71. Oh I see, so white(ish) gangs are not a problem since they *mostly* contain their
Tue May 19, 2015, 10:00 AM
May 2015

violence amongst themselves.

Got it, thanks!

SlimJimmy

(3,180 posts)
73. That's not what I said.
Wed May 20, 2015, 11:04 PM
May 2015

How many bikers kill innocent victims in drive by shootings in this country each week? It's not that they are not violent, they certainly are. But we don't have riots over this kind of thing when the bikers do it. If we did, then I'm absolutely certain it wold make the news. If you can't see the difference, then I can't help you.

Coventina

(27,120 posts)
76. "We don't have riots over this kind of thing when the bikers do it."
Thu May 21, 2015, 10:57 AM
May 2015

If YOU cannot see the difference in a community's reaction to the police using lethal force in an active gunfight versus the summary execution of unarmed youths then I cannot help YOU.

SlimJimmy

(3,180 posts)
78. When did the police summarily execute unarmed youths?
Thu May 21, 2015, 06:34 PM
May 2015

You do understand what the term means, right? This is one of the reasons I don't stay on DU all that much any longer. Unsubstantiated allegations that are widely accepted without a simple basis in truth. If you don't understand that, then I can't help you.

Coventina

(27,120 posts)
80. Oh, gee sorry that I compared shooting unarmed people with executions.
Fri May 22, 2015, 09:48 AM
May 2015

My point remains that there's a HUGE difference between that and police firing on an active gunfight involving over 100 people.

SlimJimmy

(3,180 posts)
86. You should be sorry because they are not even remotely the same.
Sun May 24, 2015, 12:07 PM
May 2015

Words matter, and you should choose yours more carefully in the future if you are to be taken seriously.

 

HooptieWagon

(17,064 posts)
7. Maybe Criminal on Criminal crime?
Mon May 18, 2015, 06:19 PM
May 2015

I'm glad no bystanders were hurt. Not going to cry over dead bikers.

Warpy

(111,259 posts)
10. I gave them kudos for taking it out in the parking lot
Mon May 18, 2015, 06:29 PM
May 2015

although once shooting started, cars likely got damaged and civilians had to dive for the walk in freezer in that sports bar.

This was an old fashioned gang fight.

NaturalHigh

(12,778 posts)
42. I mentioned that too.
Mon May 18, 2015, 07:38 PM
May 2015

Expect that fact to be ignored, though, because it will mess up a good talking point for some.

Coventina

(27,120 posts)
17. The Bandidos got their inspiration from Mexican bandits, but were founded by white guys.
Mon May 18, 2015, 06:46 PM
May 2015

Bike gangs are almost always racially homogenous, and in fact, white supremacist ideology is on the rise in these gangs.

tammywammy

(26,582 posts)
19. Interesting
Mon May 18, 2015, 06:50 PM
May 2015

Clearly I know nothing other than what I saw on Sons of Anarchy about bikers. I figured since it was called bandido and this is Texas they'd be Hispanic. Thanks for the info.

Coventina

(27,120 posts)
21. Yeah, it is interesting. Non-whites had to form their own clubs. So they are out there.
Mon May 18, 2015, 06:53 PM
May 2015

Just not the Bandidos.

Coventina

(27,120 posts)
70. Seeing as you are both new here, let me explain:
Tue May 19, 2015, 09:51 AM
May 2015

At DU, hearsay and anecdotal information is generally not regarded as reliable information.

I provided a well-respected (especially amongst liberals) news source for my post.
"I used to work at a biker bar" is not considered verifiable data.

 

imnew

(93 posts)
22. Aren't all criminal gangs Mafia , Crips , Bloods , Latin Kings , MS 13
Mon May 18, 2015, 06:54 PM
May 2015

The Bandidos mostly are the exception to this rule

They have many Hispanic and White members

Coventina

(27,120 posts)
24. From the Guardian:
Mon May 18, 2015, 06:57 PM
May 2015

"the Bandidos’ recruits, like other similar biker gangs, are young men (women are barred) in their 20s, who are mostly white and often racist. "

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/may/18/bandidos-motorcycle-gang-bad-boy-reputation-waco-shootout

Gormy Cuss

(30,884 posts)
35. Yes, just like the key word in your first post here was "many"
Mon May 18, 2015, 07:06 PM
May 2015

Mostly white contradicts the statement that many are Hispanic. Perhaps there were many in the chapter you're familiar with.

 

imnew

(93 posts)
41. Holy cow it's not some BIG secret they have a lot of Hispanic members
Mon May 18, 2015, 07:38 PM
May 2015

At least we got past this point now.

What is the big deal

Would have the OP felt better if they were ALL WHITE as it was first stated incorrectly by the OP


 

imnew

(93 posts)
45. Give it a rest ...The OP was wrong
Mon May 18, 2015, 07:54 PM
May 2015

"Will the "biker melee" be described as "white on white crime"?





Will the white community be asked to get its act together?

Inquiring minds want to know!!!"

Gormy Cuss

(30,884 posts)
49. Most of the bikers involved were white. Deflect all you want, but that's the truth.
Mon May 18, 2015, 08:23 PM
May 2015

When the situation is mostly blacks, it's described as black on black crime. Those Latinos and whites mixed in the crowd are ignored.


You're new here. Helpful hint: telling posters to give it a rest isn't an effective strategy.

gratuitous

(82,849 posts)
15. Will innocent bicyclists now be targeted by law enforcement?
Mon May 18, 2015, 06:41 PM
May 2015

I think we need to be precise in our language: the fine fellows liberally enjoying their Second Amendment rights in Waco were "motorcyclists," not "bikers."

Thank you all.

Coventina

(27,120 posts)
20. Ask the average person on the street what they picture when you say "biker".
Mon May 18, 2015, 06:50 PM
May 2015

I think your ship has sailed.....

malaise

(268,998 posts)
16. Don't hold your breath
Mon May 18, 2015, 06:41 PM
May 2015

Remember it's only 1% of them, but it's all African-Americans who are profiled and accused of black on black violence

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
18. "Biker gunfight" seems to be pretty accurate.
Mon May 18, 2015, 06:49 PM
May 2015

Even the dullards have a pretty good picture of what outlaw bikers are.

NaturalHigh

(12,778 posts)
40. I will gladly call them thugs.
Mon May 18, 2015, 07:37 PM
May 2015

Assholes, gang bangers, criminals, etc. None of those pejoratives need be exclusive to any race.

hunter

(38,311 posts)
36. White gangsters in the U.S.A. have a much higher social status than black or "Mexican" gangsters.
Mon May 18, 2015, 07:12 PM
May 2015

Especially them that ride motorcycles.

Me and my gearhead siblings' and shady acquaintances' beer brewing and motorized bicycle, moped, and antique motorcycle gang never got off the ground, even though we were among the potentially deadliest people in the state, some of us with day jobs in the Military Industrial Complex.

As a pacifist, I did my very best not to know too much about that.

pandr32

(11,583 posts)
37. I am the wife of a Bandido
Mon May 18, 2015, 07:23 PM
May 2015

My husband is a WA member (not a gang member) who happens to be a veteran, and I can tell you that many in the club are veterans. In Texas and some of the other states there are many Hispanic members, too.
I cannot comment on what has happened. Real information is sketchy and many who would be considered witnesses were arrested...Rico don't ya know. That pretty much gives law enforcement carte blanche. Club members know their rights and will not speak to police, and likely not the biased press. What is interesting, though is what information is in the press, mostly through police sources. It looks like the police knew that a meeting was planned and showed up well-armed. Apparently a fight started inside, but went outside...normal behavior to take a problem outside. Could have been because some hothead got in someone's face, or a plant for all we know.
We also know that the owner of the establishment is biker friendly. He should not be malined because of it. Many business owners know that MC club members are good paying customers.
The dead are Bandidos and Cossacks from what we understand. It is also understood that the restaurant is full of shell casings and blood...interesting if the fight went outside. Perhaps the police know how that happened.
I find it highly unlikely that any bonifide club members would want to have a "dangerous" meeting or "recruitment" at a restaurant at a shopping mall. That's not how things go. First there are hang-arounds and then they become prospects. Bandidos are not desperate for members and only want guys that will be good "brothers" and are well vouched for. The stories make it sound like there is some kind of open recruitment contest. Baloney.
I also know that when my husband and others were returning to WA after a national meet across the country (at a private property where they mind their own business) and crossed into Idaho, State Troopers pulled them over for an alleged traffic infraction. They were held at the side of the highway while one trooper started to search them and a very young trooper kept a military grade AR-15 on them the whole time. Dogs were brought in to sniff all their stuff. One of the older members was handcuffed and put in the back of the patrol car with the windows up on a very hot day because the trooper said he smelled like marijuana. He did, but he also has a medical marijuana card. Many people drove by and took pictures. The troopers found nothing except proper gun permits because the Bandits know the laws and try very hard to stay on the right side of them. They were tired and on their way home to their families.
If that young trooper had panicked because someone reached in their pocket to grab a hankie...who knows what might have happened, but then we would have to depend on the cops version of events.
That takes me back to the "melee" in Waco. The crime scene is being processed by high level law enforcement. They have ample opportunity to make sure the scene fits their narrative and agenda.
I would caution everyone here.

 

Oktober

(1,488 posts)
38. 1%ers are scum....
Mon May 18, 2015, 07:36 PM
May 2015

Last edited Mon May 18, 2015, 09:14 PM - Edit history (1)

I have yet to find an exception to this....

Beyond that your post is a bunch of rambling word salad of rationalization and conspiracy theory.

I say again... scum...

Are you comfortable with the fact that your husband is a member of a criminal organization who has, among other things, murder, drugs facilitation and rape on their list of 'accomplishments'?

AuntPatsy

(9,904 posts)
54. Thank you for posting, it needed to be heard, the judgmental bs was driving me crazy...
Mon May 18, 2015, 09:03 PM
May 2015

Hope your husband is okay...

Coventina

(27,120 posts)
60. Law enforcement considers the Bandidos to be equally dangerous as the Aryan Brotherhood,
Mon May 18, 2015, 09:24 PM
May 2015

the Bloods, and the Crips.

If that's being judgmental, then yeah, call me judgmental.

Coventina

(27,120 posts)
57. So your husband is a member of a known criminal organization
Mon May 18, 2015, 09:15 PM
May 2015

which prides itself on being "the baddest of the bad" and we're supposed to have sympathy for him?

Try again.

 

NuclearDem

(16,184 posts)
63. Oh spare us the conspiracy bullshit.
Mon May 18, 2015, 09:43 PM
May 2015

Your husband is a member of a roving gang of gun runners and murderers on par with the Brotherhood. Any veteran who gets involved with groups like these is an absolute fucking disgrace to the uniform we wore.

The Bandidos are murderers, and anyone who willingly associates with them or any other outlaw MC is scum.

NaturalHigh

(12,778 posts)
39. Well, I don't think they were all white.
Mon May 18, 2015, 07:36 PM
May 2015

I only saw a few pictures on the evening news, but it looked like several of the bikers in question were Hispanic.

JustAnotherGen

(31,823 posts)
46. No
Mon May 18, 2015, 07:55 PM
May 2015

And I would like to know what has gone on in the mostly white a few Hispanics community that caused these boys to go for bad. Lack of a father? Broken home? Generations of people thinking this was a good idea? We're any of them high on pcp when this happened?

Coventina

(27,120 posts)
52. Well, hey! That's great! I guess we can stop calling the Crips & Bloods feuds
Mon May 18, 2015, 08:59 PM
May 2015

"black on black" violence because they have white members too!!

So glad we finally live in a post-racial society!!

JustAnotherGen

(31,823 posts)
72. That's a really good point
Tue May 19, 2015, 02:11 PM
May 2015

I wonder if MS-13 allows whites, blacks, or Asians in it? Last I knew they were composed mostly of Central Americans with a high number of Salvadorans.

 

Boudica the Lyoness

(2,899 posts)
79. It's regulation color - sorta blue and white.
Fri May 22, 2015, 02:02 AM
May 2015

Actually I live in the same world we all do - but without racism.

Coventina

(27,120 posts)
81. YOU may not be bigoted, but I assure you that society is.
Fri May 22, 2015, 09:59 AM
May 2015

There is not a society on this planet that is free of it.

 

Boudica the Lyoness

(2,899 posts)
82. Bigoted?
Fri May 22, 2015, 05:09 PM
May 2015

No I'm not a bigot. I've always been open to other people's thoughts, lifestyle, cultures etc. Of course there are people in the US who are intolerant of other people based on their race, gender whatever, but does that hold anyone back from being the best they can be? Of course it doesn't.

In the US, if you have what it takes, you can get to the top of your chosen profession no matter your background, gender, religion, race etc.

Coventina

(27,120 posts)
83. There are volumes upon volumes of scientific studies that say otherwise.
Fri May 22, 2015, 10:03 PM
May 2015

If you are not willing to believe that, then you really are living in your own world.

 

Boudica the Lyoness

(2,899 posts)
84. I'm living in a world where my black son was never treated
Fri May 22, 2015, 11:24 PM
May 2015

different than my white one. (I was married twice). He wasn't raised to feel like a victim and wallow in his victim-hood. He has retired from his first career and has started on his second. He's in his 40's btw. I married a black man in DC not long after Loving V Virginia.

We were treated nice and with great respect and besides some racism I experienced by a few black folk in DC, we never experienced racism.

I told my sons they could be anything they wanted to be - the sky's the limit. What the fuck was I supposed to tell my son?! 'Racism is not over. You are a victim and you will not amount to nothing because of your skin color'?

How do you think people are being effected by what is being spewed here? Maybe more people should take a page out of my book and stop telling people they are fucked simply because they are not 'privileged' to be white.

My son has worked hard, is law abiding, respectful and successful. I was right when I told him he could be anything he wanted to be. After all we do have a black president now.

Coventina

(27,120 posts)
85. It sounds like you did a great job of raising your sons.
Sat May 23, 2015, 12:08 AM
May 2015

And things are getting better, but it doesn't change the fact that institutional racism is still a HUGE problem in this country.

Our first black president is evidence of both our successes and failures as a nation.
He has been the most obstructed and disrespected president in our nation's history.

Right wing talkers have pointed at Obama ever since 2008 as "proof" that racism doesn't exist anymore when really, we've had nothing BUT proof that it is still a big problem.

 

Boudica the Lyoness

(2,899 posts)
88. Why are you trying to make out that black folk are helpless?
Mon May 25, 2015, 02:46 AM
May 2015

What is going on here? What is the agenda?

You say, "And things are getting better"! Do you mean since segregation ended?

40 years ago at the hospital where my first son was born, the head obstetrician was black and so was the surgeon who preformed my emergency C Section.

Black folk were running many thing back then and still are.

If there is 'institutional racism' black folk have everything it takes to sort it out themselves. They are the majority of the population in some major US cities and are in control of many of those cities.

I see what you're doing when you say, "Right wing talkers have pointed at Obama ever since 2008 as "proof" that racism doesn't exist anymore..." and throwing the word 'bigot' around. Some are too quick to accuse good people of being racist and it stops meaningful conversations about race from ever getting started.

Rubbish about Obama being the most obstructed and disrespected president in the nations history! Clinton was stopped from going after Bin Laden by being accused of 'Wag the Dog'. They tried to impeach him over a private affair. Gore won the presidency and he was stopped from being president. Bush Jr was hated on a global scale though.

I don't need your 'scientific studies'. I raised two sons in America, both to successful adulthood. One black and one white and both were treated the same by society.....well actually I think the black was treated better if anything.

Coventina

(27,120 posts)
89. I never said "black folk are helpless"
Tue May 26, 2015, 10:17 AM
May 2015

Please don't put words in my mouth!

But, I'd like to know what agenda you think I have!

I'm wondering about yours as well!

You're basically saying that your unique experience in a bi-racial family represents the truth of the whole African American experience.

You're shrugging off the Department of Justice's findings JUST THIS YEAR of consistent racism in the cities of Cleveland and Ferguson. Not to mention "scientific studies" you shrug off in favor of one anecdotal experience. And, the voices of black intellectuals in this country.

It's great that you and your family have had a wonderful life free of prejudice. I wish EVERY African American in this country had your experience BUT THEY DON'T and it's not because they are "helpless."

And yes, when I see a right-wing talking point used on DU I'm going to refute it.

BKH70041

(961 posts)
53. Let's go all inclusive.
Mon May 18, 2015, 09:01 PM
May 2015

Predominantly white privileged thugs committing predominantly white on white crime.

Works for me, and it might get a few people to STFU.

Coventina

(27,120 posts)
55. Ha! No kidding. There seems to be a new kind of "one drop rule" at work in this thread.
Mon May 18, 2015, 09:04 PM
May 2015

If there's "one drop" of non-white blood in the gang, it's no longer a white problem.

Funny it doesn't work the other way with whites in the Crips and Bloods...

treestar

(82,383 posts)
67. Well no
Tue May 19, 2015, 04:07 AM
May 2015

Of course not!!!!!

It's absurd, isn't it?

Most white people will think of themselves as "non-bikers" who would never do things like that. Funny how they don't seem to see the subset of black people just like them.

Calista241

(5,586 posts)
75. I'm pretty sure that these bikers are heavily profiled by the cops.
Thu May 21, 2015, 01:03 AM
May 2015

The cops clearly weren't afraid to shoot a bunch of them when this went down.

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