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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsI’ve Read Obama’s Secret Trade Deal. Elizabeth Warren Is Right to Be Concerned.
by Michael Wessel
5/19/2015
You need to tell me whats wrong with this trade agreement, not one that was passed 25 years ago, a frustrated President Barack Obama recently complained about criticisms of the Trans Pacific Partnership (TPP). Hes right. The public criticisms of the TPP have been vague. Thats by designanyone who has read the text of the agreement could be jailed for disclosing its contents. Ive actually read the TPP text provided to the governments own advisors, and Ive given the president an earful about how this trade deal will damage this nation. But I cant share my criticisms with you.
I can tell you that Elizabeth Warren is right about her criticism of the trade deal. We should be very concerned about what's hidden in this trade dealand particularly how the Obama administration is keeping information secret even from those of us who are supposed to provide advice.
So-called cleared advisors like me are prohibited from sharing publicly the criticisms weve lodged about specific proposals and approaches. The government has created a perfect Catch 22: The law prohibits us from talking about the specifics of what weve seen, allowing the president to criticize us for not being specific. Instead of simply admitting that he disagrees with meand with many other cleared advisorsabout the merits of the TPP, the president instead pretends that our specific, pointed criticisms dont exist.
What I can tell you is that the administration is being unfair to those who are raising proper questions about the harms the TPP would do. To the administration, everyone who questions their approach is branded as a protectionistor worsedishonest. They broadly criticize organized labor, despite the fact that unions have been the primary force in America pushing for strong rules to promote opportunity and jobs. And they dismiss individuals like me who believe that, first and foremost, a trade agreement should promote the interests of domestic producers and their employees.
....Snip....
...On this count, the current TPP doesnt measure up. And nothing being considered by Congress right now would ensure that the TPP meets the goal of promoting domestic production and job creation.
Please read entire article(!)~
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/05/tpp-elizabeth-warren-labor-118068.html
*Michael Wessel has been involved in trade policy for almost 40 years. He served as trade policy adviser to the Kerry-Edwards campaign & Obama's 2008 campaign.
joshcryer
(62,269 posts)Koinos
(2,792 posts)cali
(114,904 posts)This is a very, very damning piece. And sadly, it's most damning as concerns the President. His dishonesty around the tpp is both baffling and disturbing.
It appears to me that the President has become so invested in getting this piece of shit through, that he's lost all perspective.
More:
The text of the TPP, like all trade deals, is a closely guarded secret. That fact makes a genuine public debate impossible and should make robust debate behind closed doors all the more essential. But the ability of TPP critics like me to point out the deals many failings is limited by the governments surprising and unprecedented refusal to make revisions to the language in the TPP fully available to cleared advisors.
Bill Clinton didnt operate like this. During the debate on NAFTA, as a cleared advisor for the Democratic leadership, I had a copy of the entire text in a safe next to my desk and regularly was briefed on the specifics of the negotiations, including counterproposals made by Mexico and Canada. During the TPP negotiations, the United States Trade Representative (USTR) has never shared proposals being advanced by other TPP partners. Todays consultations are, in many ways, much more restrictive than those under past administrations.
All advisors, and any liaisons, are required to have security clearances, which entail extensive paperwork and background investigations, before they are able to review text and participate in briefings. But, despite clearances, and a statutory duty to provide advice, advisors do not have access to all the materials that a reasonable person would need to do the job. The negotiators provide us with proposals but those are merely initial proposals to trading partners. We are not allowed to see counter-proposals from our trading partners. Often, advisors are provided with updates indicating that the final text will balance all appropriate stakeholder interests but we frequently receive few additional details beyond that flimsy assurance.
Those details have enormous repercussions. For instance, rules of origin specify how much of a product must originate within the TPP countries for the resulting product to be eligible for duty-free treatment. These are complex rules that decide where a company will manufacture its products and where is will purchase raw materials. Under the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA), 62.5 percent of a car needed to originate within NAFTA countries. In the US-Australia Free Trade Agreement, it was lowered to 50 percent. It further dropped to 35 percent in the US-Korea Free Trade Agreement (KORUS). In essence, under our agreement with Korea, 65 percent of a car from South Korea could be made from Chinese parts and still qualify for duty-free treatment when exported to the U.S.
Read more: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/05/tpp-elizabeth-warren-labor-118068.html#ixzz3aa2wEinC
Demeter
(85,373 posts)Wake up and smell the BS.
cali
(114,904 posts)It's much more extreme and in your face. I'm not interested terribly in why he's doing this; that he's shoving this piece of shit through and using every tool in the presidential toolbox to do it, speaks for itself.
cascadiance
(19,537 posts)... if he keeps pushing this shit through congress!
MissDeeds
(7,499 posts)Last edited Tue May 19, 2015, 10:51 AM - Edit history (1)
He ran as one kind of candidate and governed as the opposite. So much for "transparency in government".
rtracey
(2,062 posts)His legacy will be ACA, and the millions getting healthcare for the first time, marriage equality (when it becomes constitutional, and it will), bringing this country back from the brink of total disaster, fighting the GOB lead Congress, having them do NOTHING for him and he STILL got things done. That will be his legacy. I will support his legacy, and all the nah sayers can go f themselves, or would we want him to have the Bush legacy?
pangaia
(24,324 posts)Perhaps, but perhaps if you believe the legacy of this president is just a bad TPP, then you really are not much of a supporter.
pangaia
(24,324 posts)PERHAPS, or... perhaps not.
Well are you or not?
I don't care about legacies, or whatever.
But the TPP , from what I can see reading people who seem to know, is a fucking disaster for human beings. and Obama sure looks like he wants.
So, I should go fuck myself?
whomever..
Read the post.... here maybe I can spell it out for you.... IF YOU THINK THAT HISTORY WILL REMEMBER THE OBAMA PRESIDENCY FOR FOR JUST THE TPP ( WHICH HAS NOT BEEN PASSED YET), AND THAT IS ALL, THEN YOU ARE NOT MUCH OF A SUPPORTER OR DEMOCRAT.
Oh but just my opinion.....
LondonReign2
(5,213 posts)Well gosh, that sure is going to sting....
rtracey
(2,062 posts)whatever......go vote for Carly
LondonReign2
(5,213 posts)you must support Fiorina...who supports the TPP.
In the immortal words of Dean Wormer, "....stupid is no way to go through life, son."
cui bono
(19,926 posts)Saying that his legacy will be the ACA and that's good enough for you. So maybe you should heed your own words since you care so much more about how you define one man's legacy and defending what that will be than you do about the entire human race.
And that means you are not much of a citizen, much less a compassionate human being.
Well if you are talking about me and my original post, you are incorrect...here, I will copy and paste....."His legacy will be ACA, and the millions getting healthcare for the first time, marriage equality (when it becomes constitutional, and it will), bringing this country back from the brink of total disaster, fighting the GOB lead Congress, having them do NOTHING for him and he STILL got things done."
I mentioned ACA, marriage equality, bring the country back from the brink of disaster, fighting the GOP congress without much help and still getting things done.
The whole point of my original post is this... if you believe in it or not, I really don't give a crap. His legacy as president will not be remembered for JUST TPP, like many think. TPP has not even passed yet, and may not pass ever. His legacy...oh of course I cant forget IMO, (or the whole forum will come apart), will be the first black man to be elected president twice, how he championed Affordable Care for the millions who didn't have it, how he was the first president to truly support same-sex marriage, the president that actually wasn't afraid to go after and get Bin Laden, the president that helped save this country from economic disaster, the president that held office with 50 months + of job growth....these are my and many of my DEMOCRAT friends thoughts of his legacy... Yes, now the right will remember him for the drones, the birth certificate, the fact he was black, their lies about Kenya, Muslim, Hater in Chief, IRAQ, SYRIA, Benghazi, Iranian nuclear treaty, etc..... you can believe what you want....
cui bono
(19,926 posts)And really, you lump in drones with the right wing? Liberals are against his increased drone use. That is not a right wing issue. I know many on here like to say that since Rand Paul spoke out about it, but even libertarians are right about some issues.
The way you just posted now and before, you seem to be trying to make is seem that anyone who criticizes Obama and thinks the TPP stinks and wonders why he is pushing for it so hard is akin to right wing nutjobs.
So my question to you is, why is Obama pushing something those nutjobs want so badly? Why does he have many more Con backers than Dem backers on the TPP? And why did you say "DEMOCRAT friends" instead of "DEMOCRATIC friends"? There is a group of people that drop the "ic" and it ain't liberals.
lark
(23,091 posts)ignoring reality and loving the president, despite his betrayals?
Response to lark (Reply #96)
MissDeeds This message was self-deleted by its author.
oh yes you are correct.... I tend to attempt to look at the whole picture, not just one aspect.
Thespian2
(2,741 posts)ACA is still an insurance controlled system...insurance companies still ration medical care...Obama would not fight for single-payer...
His ongoing drone program is highly successful at murdering people...innocent people...
He ran the economy by appointing Bush's failed leaders...Geithner, Summers, etc...
He gave trillions to big banks...the same ones who crashed the economy and are on the way to doing it again...
These are parts of his "Legacy"...I'm tired of the horse in the room...
Autumn
(45,048 posts)Every president has a legacy just by virtue of being elected President The money they know they will make out of office is the real legacy.
I got to say your post nailed it.
Rockyj
(538 posts)Thespian2
(2,741 posts)Jackpine Radical
(45,274 posts)The people who can afford only the bottom-tier (Bronze) plan often can't use it because of high deductibles and co-pays. ACA is actually a Health Insurance Company Profitability Act, and they're already finding ways to chisel away at provisions such as the Prior Condition issue, are cleverly disguising their administrative costs as clinical expenses (charging you to review your case in search of grounds to deny payments).
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)fought the legalization of marijuana and even made it very hard for the dispensing of medical marijuana. And you are totally ignoring his disasters. His legacy will be that he pardoned our war criminals and torturers. And if this TPP piece of crap gets passed and we sink to the level of a third world county, will also be his. He has ramped up the killing of people, many innocent with drones. That's got to be in the legacy. He has persecuted more whistle-blowers and journalists than all preceding presidents.
"and all the nah sayers can go f themselves," Please. Is that any way for a Democrat to speak?
whereisjustice
(2,941 posts)to pay for it. Including me. Why should I have to bear the costs of that program while once again the rich bear no sacrifice.
And fuck me for having a group plan. It's about the only benefit I have left after working 10-12 hrs a day, no pension plans, vacation becoming a thing of distant past since you'll get dinged, and jobs hemorrhaging to Asia.
Got relief with ACA? Great. many of us in middle class are paying for it with less pay while the rich walked away unscathed.
For my f-4 plan, on ACA $15,000 (w/o dental) as of a year ago. No idea what it is now.
So, that's what happened - he turned the middle class against itself while the rich are laughing their asses off.
Those numbers with ACA sound nice, but it won't be enough to stop the carnage if he doesn't stop sending jobs offshore.
truedelphi
(32,324 posts)Others inside the inner circle take over the entire American economy, leaving most people with only crumbs.
However, since most Americans have no ability to tear themselves away from their sports programs, celebrity TV reality shows etc, to figure out economic policies, I will say the TPP issue may be more in our face than the economic crimes the Administration has committed.
randys1
(16,286 posts)Please dont waste valuable bandwidth with "You can keep your doctor"
that was not a lie, it was a statement of fact and belief at the time, not knowing people would buy junk insurance after he said that and BEFORE the law took effect.
cali
(114,904 posts)which I supported btw, with the left wing attack on this piece of shit? Wow. And do your own research. I've posted about his lies. So have others- you can start with his bullshit about how the tpp isn't secret- addressed right in the op by Wessel, ffs.
randys1
(16,286 posts)I think the person I responded to was claiming Obama has lied on many occasions about many issues.
RiverLover
(7,830 posts)It's been frustrating to have the president accuse people of playing politics when this is a very damaging deal and they're just trying to prevent it. They're actually representing We the People. But they're unable to give specifics of how it will hurt us because its classified. Its the president who is pulling the stunt here.
jalan48
(13,856 posts)I think Obama is looking for more than a college professorship in Constitutional law when he leaves office. Who can afford to pay someone $200,000 to $400,000 for a single speaking engagement? The answer? Not people working for minimum wage.
BeyondGeography
(39,369 posts)as much as anything. Give CEO's exponentially more access than elected representatives and the latter will not be pleased, especially when there are legitimate issues to be addressed. He will need to relent if this is to move forward.
cali
(114,904 posts)if you prefer the sausage making metaphor.
and it's not only giving CEOs more access and input- it's that they are vastly in the majority compared to public interest groups and labor unions.
once trade promotion authority is passed, the tpp is assured passage. and odds are that this will all happen very swiftly.
BeyondGeography
(39,369 posts)The arguments against the deal are strong but arcane. The ordinary citizen will not get fired up about potential Dodd Frank infringements and compromised labor and environmental standards.
I suspect you're right about passage in the end. After which the President will have to pivot left and mend fences. What that means substantively, I don't know, but he does have some cleaning up to do.
cali
(114,904 posts)I suspect that that's one reason for opponents focusing on job loss and secrecy- when there are so many, arguably worse things about it.
I don't think that pivoting left is in the President's playbook at this point. I suppose he could block Keystone, but I don't see that happening.
bvar22
(39,909 posts)..it will be with President Obama standing with Republicans and fighting the Democrats.
Somehow, this seems fitting.
joshcryer
(62,269 posts)The media isn't making a big fuss about it. Congress is forging ahead. There's no major public outcry over it (like there was SOPA or net neutrality).
I feel as if it's going to just go through without much fanfare (at least fast track).
cali
(114,904 posts)are helping push the President's piece of dog shit deal through.
joshcryer
(62,269 posts)I know net neutrality hardly made the news. SOPA got way more coverage because a lot of sites went down (including DU) for the protest.
The media can't be trusted for shit, that's a given. But it'd make a fuss if there was a SOPA style protest, no? It'd make a fuss if its phone lines and email servers were constantly hammered by people upset by non-coverage.
Seems that's not happening yet. I'm cynical it will happen. It's going to go to fast track, it'll be public for three months, and it'll pass without much fanfare, and no one will stop it.
Hope I'm wrong.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)Would that it were so. I guess secrecy and sovereignty aren't having the intended effect and some fresh scandal is needed?
Insert ROFL emoticon here.
cali
(114,904 posts)psst: your comment makes no sense. not that that's any surprise at all. there is nothing that would sway you from your adorable loyalty to the President. ucrdem trusts President Obama 100%!. Fuck the evidence, fuck facts. urcrdem will stand strong with the President!
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)Oh gee.
Read more: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/05/tpp-elizabeth-warren-labor-118068.html#ixzz3aaBMXZlS
My heart is breaking.
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)He's very specific about some of the problems with the deal,including the shrinking percentage of product needed to qualify for duty free treatment originating from countries involved in the trade agreements.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)Read more: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/05/tpp-elizabeth-warren-labor-118068.html#ixzz3aaDIKRKI
Guess what. It isn't finished. Either that or he hasn't gotten around to reviewing the latest draft because Barack hasn't personally delivered a leather-bound copy.
brentspeak
(18,290 posts)That much we do know.
green917
(442 posts)And that even with the president, those supposed to be giving advice (as he is) on the deal are being marginalized and drummed out of the discussion!
cadaverdog
(228 posts)KORUS was sold the same way Obama is attempting to peddle the TPP. And we can expect similar results; more jobs lost, more foreign imports, more corporate profits and jack shit for the working class. Obama. Seems to be practicing sleight hand; on one hand he shows us the Keystone stall and we "ohhh" and "ahhh," while the other hand opens up the Arctic to oil drilling. What a Shell game.
NRaleighLiberal
(60,014 posts)cali
(114,904 posts)love your total mendaciousness here. It's so... bald. No he is not talking about inconvenience. He's talking about unprecedented secrecy and deliberate obtruction of official advisers which makes it nigh on impossible for them to do their jobs. Hey, your adored President is lying- over and over.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)for a look-see.
cali
(114,904 posts)jumped through all the hoops and has read it.
do stop making stuff up, uc. Everyone sees throughyour disingenuous bull.
And if you are going to make stuff up, do try and be a bit cleverer at it.
At this point, you're just making folks:
BlindTiresias
(1,563 posts)green917
(442 posts)With the chamber of commerce? I bet they pay you pretty well, huh?
LondonReign2
(5,213 posts)in a very long string of dumb comments. Read the article. The author DID read it; he points out that it is illegal to actually discuss what he read.
OrwellwasRight
(5,170 posts)He is complaining that the Administration selectively references the text to build the case it wants, but doesn't allow its critics to tell what they know, citing "national security." If there really were national security concerns, members of the Administration could not reveal what was in the secret text "at will." That is not how national security works -- see David Petraeus if you need an example.
So the administration is using secrecy to hide information, pure and simple.
See also:
The World Intellectual Property Organization, for example, has published draft texts and has even Webcast negotiations. The European Commission is posting the text of its proposals online for the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership negotiations.
Even Robert Zoellick, who served as U.S. trade representative from 2001 to 2005, expressed surprise that the negotiating texts were not made more generally available. Im actually a big believer in the transparency of those arrangements, so I dont know why theyve been more restrictive, he said at a speech at the Wilson Center in 2013.
Source: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2015/05/15/the-catch-22-of-trade-deals-done-in-secret/
3. Interim texts arent published for other important negotiations.
Yes they are. Here is the draft text for this years climate change conference in Paris (and I submit the future of the planet is more important than the US getting a 0.4% increment to GDP after ten years). Here is a draft text for the Doha round: Doha had a whole bunch of problems and collapsed, but I never heard anyone claim excessive transparency was one of them. And here is a draft text proposed by the EU in the EU-US Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP) negotiations.
4. Dont worry well see the agreed text at the end.
By which time it will be too late to amend it.
Source: http://blogs.ft.com/the-world/2015/05/five-arguments-against-the-self-defeating-secrecy-of-the-trans-pacific-partnership/
joshcryer
(62,269 posts)Sounds like he had to sign an NDA or some other confidentiality agreement to be able to read the text, thus, to release his doubts about TPP under his own name would be a breach of that. That does not preclude him from releasing his misgivings anonymously. Throw his writing through a text obfuscator if necessary.
That's what's so annoying about this to me, like the NSA, no one apparently thinks it's worth sticking their neck out there to drop a bombshell. The stuff we've seen so far is boilerplate trade stuff with some stuff we haven't tried before.
cali
(114,904 posts)F4lconF16
(3,747 posts)And this is exactly why we're in the spot we are. People are too scared or too self-interested to take risks that are without a doubt necessary.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)No, it's not just an NDA.
Releasing classified information, anonymously or not, is a federal crime. There are holes in the statute he could theoretically exploit that might keep him out of prison this time, but it also means he can never be involved in any other government business.
Your plan is to get the people who care to stop these abuses to remove themselves from government jobs, leaving only the "yes men".
whereisjustice
(2,941 posts)stonecutter357
(12,695 posts)LondonReign2
(5,213 posts)Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
BeyondGeography
(39,369 posts)Walk with pride.
cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
BeyondGeography
(39,369 posts)Cantbeserious.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)legislate and to play its Constitutional Role on behalf of the American people, to Multi National Corporations via Secret Trade Agreements written mostly by Corporations, many of them Global Corporations.
Your comment above epitomizes the responses of those who support these secret deals.
Accuse our best Dems and those who GET why they are trying so hard to protect those who elected them from these Multi National Corporations, of being 'right wingers'.
Offer no counter argument, just go right to a personal attack.
Let me ask you something.
Because I am always curious about people who do not present any argument to support their views. Do you think that attacking Democrats is going to change any minds on something as important as this?
BeyondGeography
(39,369 posts)From your high horse, no less. Awesome stuff.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)Big day here.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)The old days when we were so easily distracted by 'OMG did you see what O'Reilly said on Fox' nonsense are long gone.
You must have noticed that no one cares about these clowns anymore or what they say. .
This isn't about individual politicians, it is about THIS COUNTRY.
I should care more about what Palin said about Obama than a Trade Deal being kept secret from the American people which according to those who have read it, is so damaging to this country that they HAVE to keep it secret because the American people would probably rise up en masse if they knew what was in it?
So it's about protecting the president from criticism? Isn't that protectionist btw?
BeyondGeography
(39,369 posts)And it's not the first time. In fact, we have a whole chapter of Obama supporters here who can walk and chew gum at the same time.
stonecutter357
(12,695 posts)stevenleser
(32,886 posts)Congrats. I guess.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)eom
cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
LiberalLovinLug
(14,169 posts)Basing your support or nonsupport for someone based on what others say about them.
Caribou Barbie also, IMO, coined one of the best phrases describing the MSM news......"The LameStream Media". For very different reasons than I would have labeled them that...but perfect and catchy. Youbetcha.
cali
(114,904 posts)and not addressing the issues in the op.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)Hekate
(90,641 posts)cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
Hekate
(90,641 posts)You better believe it.
cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
Faryn Balyncd
(5,125 posts)and international trade co-chair for the Kerry-Edwards Presidential Campaign, as well as an advisor the the 2008 Obama campaign.
". . . How can we properly advise, without knowing the details? . . . Questions pervade virtually every chapter of the proposed agreement, including labor and the environment, investor-state, intellectual property and others. The answers to these questions affect the sourcing and investment decisions of our companies and resulting jobs for our people. Our elected representatives would be abdicating their Constitutional duty if they failed to raise questions.
Senator Warren should be commended for her courage in standing up to the President, and Secretary Clinton for raising a note of caution, and I encourage all elected officials to raise these important questions. Working Americans cant afford more failed trade agreements and trade policies.
Congress should refuse to pass fast track trade negotiating authority until the partnership between the branches, and the trust of the American people is restored. That will require a lot of fence mending and disclosure of exactly what the TPP will do. That begins by sharing the final text of the TPP with those of us who wont simply rubber-stamp it."
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/05/tpp-elizabeth-warren-labor-118068.html
BrotherIvan
(9,126 posts)99Forever
(14,524 posts)... that they make damn sure this piece of shit dies a quick death. Like NAFTA before it, it will be hung like an albatross around their necks if they don't. Those Dems that won't come out publically against it, should plan on an early retirement.
salib
(2,116 posts)Senate Dems can now vote against it all they want ant it will still pass. So there is nothing to hang around their necks. The time in the Senate for anything other than delYing tactics is over.
99Forever
(14,524 posts)We the People are watching and keeping score. We the People WILL hold those who do not boldly and publically stand up for us accountable. Silence IS capitulation.
salib
(2,116 posts)However, all of those senators who first voted against debate, then turned around the next day and allowed debate can now vote against the bill, and it will likely pass.
This, they have political cover. I think the best we can say is that they were against it before they were for it before they were against it.
99Forever
(14,524 posts)The rest of us?
Not so much.
Nor do wannabe candidates.
Punx
(446 posts)I'm talking about you, Wyden!
heaven05
(18,124 posts)Last edited Tue May 19, 2015, 08:52 AM - Edit history (1)
is, our system is BROKEN because of all the corporate power and MONEY in our political machinery. on edit: I might add that this 'deal' will pit the poor, black, brown and white, against the exploited Asian worker thus continuing the divide and conquer rule, worldwide, that the 1% has used so effectively, in this country, for generations.
marym625
(17,997 posts)When over 400 corporations have seen and put their two million in to the TPP, and the average American, as well as unions, have no say and can't even see it, there's no doubt what the deal is about.
zentrum
(9,865 posts)
.economists at the table to deal with the 2008 financial crisis. He had only Wall Street.
And he didn't have progressives at the table for the TPPbut rather lobbyists and corporations.
It's a legacy tragedy for him and and a real danger for us ordinary working people.
And he ran as a Progressive. Twice.
CharlotteVale
(2,717 posts)marym625
(17,997 posts)Excellent article!
It's absolute bullshit for President Obama to ask for details of criticism when he won't allow anything to be shared. It's almost like a dare to people to see if they will risk jail
Oilwellian
(12,647 posts)He's outright mocking them.
marym625
(17,997 posts)kenfrequed
(7,865 posts)Warren is right to be worried about this and if she were running she would have my support. Since she is not I will support the candidate that has been out front on trade and in opposition to these kind of deals for decades.
peacebird
(14,195 posts)To be vigilent on in her book, yet nowhere does he mention Bernie Sanders, who has come out forcefully against TPP. Hillary spoke in general terms about what trade agreements should contain in her book, but has not come out and addressed TPP at this critical stage. I tweeted Wessell to call him out for his bias.
heaven05
(18,124 posts)is really giving the Dem 'leadership' fits, I think. Otherwise why try to marginalize him so forcefully, so early. More and more I'm beginning to look at Sanders as a way to make a huge political statement against "business as usual". These corporate Dems and rethugs must be brought the message that a lot of people know what they have done, are doing and if we don't vote, will continue to do, if we don't stop them with a Warren or Sanders rebuttal. I think. I speak for myself only.
peacebird
(14,195 posts)CentralMass
(15,265 posts)midnight
(26,624 posts)"After his presidency is finished-whether it is this year or in 2016-President Barack Obama said today that he would like to work with kids in the next phase of his life.
Obama was asked during a taping of ABC's "The View" today in New York City what he sees himself doing after he is no longer president.
"Well, you know, first things first here," Obama said to laughter. "There's all kinds of things I want to do in the second term, uh, putting folks back to work, making sure our schools are up to snuff."
"And then?" Barbara Walters, host of the show, said.
"You know, in a post-presidency, the thing that I think I would enjoy most is spending time working with kids," Obama said. "I love teaching, I miss teaching, and you know, I'm not sure it would necessarily be in a classroom, but the idea of being able to go around in various cities and helping to create mentorships, and apprenticeships, giving young people the sense of possibility and opportunity, and using whatever spotlight I can shine to show how much incredible talent there is out there."
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/09/obama-to-work-with-kids-after-presidency-he-tells-the-view/
cali
(114,904 posts)Pray tell, what is it?
BeyondGeography
(39,369 posts)That's been one of the more hysterical theories around here.
JEB
(4,748 posts)if this atrocious "trade" agreement is rammed through.
Go Vols
(5,902 posts)MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)K&
Why doesn't it bother damned near EVERYONE here that those who pay most of the United States budget and those who are the backbone of the labor movement are PROHIBITED by law to get a direct assessment of the law's text?
This is the kind of HORSESHIT that the Obama administration needs to own
right fucking NOW...
The text of the TPP, like all trade deals, is a closely guarded secret. That fact makes a genuine public debate impossible and should make robust debate behind closed doors all the more essential. But the ability of TPP critics like me to point out the deals many failings is limited by the governments surprising and unprecedented refusal to make revisions to the language in the TPP fully available to cleared advisors.
Bill Clinton didnt operate like this. During the debate on NAFTA, as a cleared advisor for the Democratic leadership, I had a copy of the entire text in a safe next to my desk and regularly was briefed on the specifics of the negotiations, including counterproposals made by Mexico and Canada. During the TPP negotiations, the United States Trade Representative (USTR) has never shared proposals being advanced by other TPP partners. Todays consultations are, in many ways, much more restrictive than those under past administrations.
Read more: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/05/tpp-elizabeth-warren-labor-118068.html#ixzz3aaY332VL
Kelvin Mace
(17,469 posts)We proles are just too stupid to see how this is going to make life paradise for us if we would just shut up and clap.
MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)Of course!
randome
(34,845 posts)Is Wessel claiming he is not allowed to make his concerns known to the President? I think what he is complaining about is that he can't go on a public rant about his concerns.
Not the same thing at all.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"The whole world is a circus if you know how to look at it."
Tony Randall, 7 Faces of Dr. Lao (1964)[/center][/font][hr]
turbinetree
(24,695 posts)"What I can tell you is that the administration is being unfair to those who are raising proper questions about the harms the TPP would do. To the administration, everyone who questions their approach is branded as a protectionistor worsedishonest. They broadly criticize organized labor, despite the fact that unions have been the primary force in America pushing for strong rules to promote opportunity and jobs. And they dismiss individuals like me who believe that, first and foremost, a trade agreement should promote the interests of domestic producers and their employees."
This last sentence wraps up the sentiment of everyone on fairness and disclosure-----we have a right to know-------end of story----------and we are being denied this right
randome
(34,845 posts)When the treaty goes before Congress, they have, what, 90 days to review it? It won't be secret then. Plenty of time to make our concerns known then.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"The whole world is a circus if you know how to look at it."
Tony Randall, 7 Faces of Dr. Lao (1964)[/center][/font][hr]
RiverLover
(7,830 posts)And since Nixon first employed fast track to get around our Democratic & Representative govt to pass a bad deal, no trade deal has failed passing using fast track. 15 times its been used to screw over Americans. Yet 100s of trade deals have gone through without fast track, because they had nothing to hide.
TPP couldn't pass without fast track, and Obama couldn't get fast track when Dems had the senate majority.
He needs a repub senate majority to get it through. How can anyone defend this?
randome
(34,845 posts)For those 90 days or whatever, our elected representatives can say whatever the hell they want about the TPP. Of course not all our elected representatives have our welfare in mind when they start voting but that's another issue.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]You should never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font][hr]
turbinetree
(24,695 posts)This is the first treaty that this country signed:
1776 Model Treaty passed by the Continental Congress becomes the template for its future international treaties
I, you and everyone, do have a right, we have the right know under the Pre-amble of the Constitution to know what our treaties and or laws are going to do to us as a society and to civilization as a whole.
This treaty or "trade deal" and all trade deals are like this analogy:
What came first the chicken or the egg?
randome
(34,845 posts)We elect our representatives to make decisions in our names. Whether they keep that in mind or not is another thing.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]You should never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font][hr]
jomin41
(559 posts)AzDar
(14,023 posts)Segami
(14,923 posts)Kablooie
(18,625 posts)What the hell does Obama get out of turning his base against him?
I don't get it.
It isn't a logical move based on his history.
Something strange is going on here.
It's like he's being blackmailed behind the scenes somehow.
Is there someone who has the ability to destroy something or someone important to him?
Seems impossible but there it is.
libdem4life
(13,877 posts)in post presidency? Surely not you or I or anyone, likely that we know. I stopped short of Blackmail, but in politics it is more greasing the skids, wink-wink-nudge-nudge, nudge. Unfortunately, it sullies his reputation with only the Progressives, but he'll get his millions anyway.
Also, consider that "The Base" pretty much only had power until the second election was over. Kind of a first term to give us some crumbs, so we could be grateful and vote him in again. It's the second term that tells.
JMO.
Populist_Prole
(5,364 posts)He's pushing HARD for this, harder than other legislation or against republican obstructionism. He's spouting his most inflammatory invective to date not against corporatists or the obstructionist republicans; but against the progressive elements of his own base. That's just downright strange.
Almost as if he was told "Push this/pass this....or else".
Sobax
(110 posts)99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)BrotherIvan
(9,126 posts)His 2008 campaign cost $1Billion. His 2012 campaign cost upwards of $1.4Billion. Those donations aren't gifts, and they need to be paid back. He had to make deals to get to the White House, and being a junior Senator, he had to make A LOT of deals to rise so quickly.
I don't know why this isn't more obvious. This is why we need campaign finance reform and should not vote for any candidate who is bankrolled by corporations. They may campaign like a liberal, but their sponsors must be paid back.
WillyT
(72,631 posts)ucrdem
(15,512 posts)Sheldon Cooper
(3,724 posts)Now that she's a Democrat, this might be a good time for Senator Warren to read the party platform.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6694061
REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
ALERTER'S COMMENTS
Essentially, this "new" poster ucrdem has been trolling the forums with anti-Elizabeth Warren posts, attempting, among other things, to persuade forum members that Warren is still some sort of Republican. This latest post of his/hers/whoever on this thread is yet another in long series of baiting posts concerning Warren, all of which are meant to piss off DUers. Following is just some of the others:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022968996#post89
http://election.democraticunderground.com/10026524885#post60
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6028605
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6028648
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6028690
The review was completed at Tue May 19, 2015, 04:55 PM, and the Jury voted 0-7 to LEAVE IT.
Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I don't know what the alerter means by "new" - the poster joined in 2013. And it's the primary season, we're allowed to post stuff that pisses off other DUers. Manny does it all the time, so does cali. Not hide-worthy and you the alerter should really grow another layer of skin.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I recommend 'Ignore' if this poster annoys you
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No worse than the Obama bashing, the Hillary bashing, or the Sanders Bashing. Maybe we can start bashing Republicans, huh?
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: What a pointless alert!
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)Thanks Sheldon!
giftedgirl77
(4,713 posts)That one really put some effort into that damn alert. I've got to give them an A for effort but they sure do seem to be keeping an eye on you. Glad you didn't get a hide for that nonsense.
Buns_of_Fire
(17,174 posts)there's going to be a mad scramble to dig through it, because there MUST be a pony in there somewhere!
Right? Right?
No, not a pony, but trust me. You're gonna love it! I wanted it to be a surprise...
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)Bernie is an announced candidate. Michael Wessel, by ignoring Bernie, demonstrates that he is part of the in-crowd. If he doesn't like Obama's secrecy about the TPP, secrecy which prohibits honest discussion of its pros and cons, then we have an even bigger problem than we could have thought.
And Mr. Wessel needs to listen to Bernie Sanders before he writes another op-ed. The race for the Democratic Party nomination is not yet closed, Mr. Wessel. Please pay attention.
RiverLover
(7,830 posts)has criticisms that are being ignored by the president & he's unable to go into specifics with the public on the reasons it's so bad & how it won't create jobs at home because the president has made it "classified" & he could be jailed if he did.
What could that possibly have to do with Bernie's run for the presidency?
He only mentions Warren because she has become the face of the opposition to the TPA & TPP. And she's not running.
randome
(34,845 posts)Makes no sense. If he's advising the President, then he's doing the job he signed onto and needs to stop complaining.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]You should never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font][hr]
RiverLover
(7,830 posts)Frustrated. He's an adviser who knows how much this will hurt our country and not only is his experienced expert advise being ignored by the president, the president has made it impossible for him to be explicit in explaining why this is a bad deal to the people of his country.
He's busting loose and trying to tell us what's really going on. I'm also fairly certain he's losing some friends here too. I'm grateful to him and believe we all should be.
I still don't see how his telling his story has anything to do with Sen Sanders.
ismnotwasm
(41,975 posts)Interesting.
dpatbrown
(368 posts)Very convincing article. Michael Wessel has a duty to this country to expose ALL the details. Besides, what's the worst that could happen to him? In many circles, he would be seen as a hero. Lets hope his article reaches the masses. Expose the truth.
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)Yes, they ARE heroes but that didn't keep them out of harms way in Amerika
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)This is no way for a so-called "democracy" to behave.
randome
(34,845 posts)There is a negotiation that will be public for 90 days while it's voted on. No one is passing a law that no one knows anything about else how would the laws be enforced?
[hr][font color="blue"][center]You should never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font][hr]
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)Why are you so willing to sell America down the river?
This deal is locked away behind armed guards, can't be copied, can't
even take any notes (unless you want them confiscated at the door
when you leave), AND you can't TALK ABOUT IT after you've seen
it or you'll go to jail.
What kind of way is this to pass laws in a so-called "democracy"?????
randome
(34,845 posts)Didn't hear you complaining then. Why now? All treaties are negotiated privately. Then they are presented to Congress and voted on. This is no different from other treaties, trade-related or not.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]You should never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font][hr]
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)1) the Iran Treaty was NOT written or "negotiated" by corporate lobbyists and lawyers, the TPP. was. The Iran Treaty was negotiated by the State Dept. and other government officials.
2) the details of the Iran Treaty were discussed openly, without people in the know being threatened with jail time if they divulge it's contents.
Apples & Oranges baby.
MisterP
(23,730 posts)RiverLover
(7,830 posts)colsohlibgal
(5,275 posts)He will get his due as the first black, really half black president, as he should.
He will get ripped for his TPP shilling (as will Bubba for NAFTA etc), but that's not all. He will get ripped for saying he was going to try to reign in Wall Street and then....bringing in the same pro/in and out of Wall Street hacks who wrecked it.
He'll not get high marks for wasting time trying to work across the aisle with a crazy, obstinate party. Stuff like working and buying into that "Grand Bargain" - as in a grand bargain for the wealthy.
The ACA - better than nothing but it didn't do a lot about cost. When I hear it has made costs rise slower I wonder...while this is better than more steep increases, it's way too high as is, this did little to control those.
The person who will get the most kudos on health care, if it happens, will be the person that goes to a very cheap single payer system like the rest of the non tinhorn nations. For profit health care is obscene.
The Obama apologists are remarkable and indomitable. If he suddenly declared himself King they would find a way to rationalize it. Again, blind loyalty is dangerous.
ismnotwasm
(41,975 posts)Wow.
giftedgirl77
(4,713 posts)The fact that our President is biracial or the bullshit about ACA rates allegedly going up because we know that's nonsense. Because this entire post was nothing but a great big bite right off of freeperville.
Hekate
(90,641 posts)But then back home it was not a slur to acknowledge one's multi-ethnicity.
giftedgirl77
(4,713 posts)BlancheSplanchnik
(20,219 posts)sigh
I'm relying on the opinions of people who know more than me. I'd say Mr. Wessel knows more than me.
Faryn Balyncd
(5,125 posts)Faryn Balyncd
(5,125 posts)pansypoo53219
(20,969 posts)Cryptoad
(8,254 posts)he post text of the document that proves all these bad thingys he claims it contains...geeez this is getting as bad as the Right wing tactics of disinformation....
woo me with science
(32,139 posts)Change has come
(2,372 posts)whereisjustice
(2,941 posts)enforceable regulations. You can talk all day about the wonderful "spirit" of environmental and worker protections, but Wall Street doesn't give a shit about any of that and they know it is unenforceable.
This deal is a literally a giant bag of shit.
FairWinds
(1,717 posts)jilted his pole dancing girlfriend, or is a hater,
or both