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niyad

(113,302 posts)
Tue May 19, 2015, 12:22 PM May 2015

The Plundering of a Nation by a Beloved Company


The Plundering of a Nation by a Beloved Company


An emotional response to any criticism of the Apple Corporation might be anticipated from the users of the company's powerful, practical, popular, and entertaining devices. Accolades to the company and a healthy profit are certainly well-deserved. But much-despised should be the theft from taxpayers and the exploitation of workers and customers, all cloaked within the image of an organization that seems to work magic on our behalf.

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1. Apple Took Years of Public Research, Integrated the Results, and Packaged it as Their Own

Apple's stock market value of over $700 billion is about twice the value of any other company. It is generally regarded as innovative, trendy, and sensitive to the needs of phone and computer users all around the world. Many of us have become addicted to the beautifully designed iPhone. But the design goes back to the time before Apple existed.

Steve Jobs once admitted: "We have always been shameless about stealing great ideas." And reaping most of the benefits. As economist William Lazonick put it, "The iPhone didn’t just magically appear out of the Apple campus in Cupertino. Whenever a company produces a technology product, it benefits from an accumulation of knowledge created by huge numbers of people outside the company, many of whom have worked in government-funded projects over the previous decades."

In her revealing book, The Entrepreneurial State, Mariana Mazzucato explains that "Apple concentrates its ingenuity not on developing new technologies and components, but on integrating them into an innovative architecture." She goes on to describe 12 major technologies that have their roots in government research, including memory and hard disks, displays, cellular technology, GPS, and all the Internet protocols. Much of it came from the Department of Defense, the Department of Energy, NASA, the Air Force, and other U.S. agencies. The biggest expense in the iPhone is the touchscreen, which was developed at the CERN laboratories in Europe.

The "stealing of ideas" has not been accompanied by a reciprocal contribution to research. Apple spends much less than Microsoft and Google on R&D as a percentage of revenue.

. . . . .

http://www.commondreams.org/views/2015/05/18/plundering-nation-beloved-company
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The Plundering of a Nation by a Beloved Company (Original Post) niyad May 2015 OP
The Plundering of a State by a Beloved Company KamaAina May 2015 #1
thank you for pointing that out. such a cute gimmick about the apple names, yes??? niyad May 2015 #3
And if this was not possible, Apple would not base themselves in California at all, Nye Bevan May 2015 #4
Riiiiight. Because there's so much engineering talent in Reno. KamaAina May 2015 #5
Tech Company to Bring 400 Jobs to Reno Nye Bevan May 2015 #6
That's right, let's keep caving into bribery in order to keep Americans working. There are simply no sabrina 1 May 2015 #12
That's a separate discussion. The OP accused Apple of "plundering", Nye Bevan May 2015 #14
What I can do is state my opinion of people who take unfair advantage of a system that is sabrina 1 May 2015 #16
Apple could certainly write an extra check for $1 billion and give it to the government, Nye Bevan May 2015 #17
Like I said, integrity and honesty aren't worth much in this system we keep on defending. sabrina 1 May 2015 #22
So why did nobody else "take years of public research, integrate the results, Nye Bevan May 2015 #2
Did they accept Tax Dollars to enable that research, to 'reap those rewards'? sabrina 1 May 2015 #13
Apparently the argument is that they hired some ex-government researchers. Nye Bevan May 2015 #19
Engineer here 1939 May 2015 #15
You, sir, are a thief and a plunderer, Nye Bevan May 2015 #20
The whole point of publicly funded research is to provide the basis for new ideas n2doc May 2015 #7
did you read the entire article? it does explain. niyad May 2015 #8
I see no evidence of "theft" n2doc May 2015 #10
Thing about Apple is that there's no other better alternative AZ Progressive May 2015 #9
And I don't see how such a product is any better than Apple's in terms of labor or Int. Property n2doc May 2015 #11
apple makes good kit d_r May 2015 #18
Don't buy it. moondust May 2015 #21
OSX was built on top of BSD, when Apple's homegrown operating systems became too unweildy hunter May 2015 #26
Apple made money because of the Cult of Steve Jobs Sobax May 2015 #27
Disagree. F4lconF16 May 2015 #28
Fifth rec--to the greatest page. nt tblue37 May 2015 #23
thank you. niyad May 2015 #25
I don't personally like Apple, and I really didn't like closeupready May 2015 #24
My observation, for what it's worth: Binkie The Clown May 2015 #29
+1000 moondust May 2015 #30
 

KamaAina

(78,249 posts)
1. The Plundering of a State by a Beloved Company
Tue May 19, 2015, 12:25 PM
May 2015

Apple has a tiny subsidiary called Braeburn Capital (get it? A kind of apple, just like Macintosh! ) Braeburn's four employees are based in Reno. Nevada has no corporate income tax. So -- surprise! -- all of Apple's profits are routed through Braeburn, thus depriving Cupertino, Santa Clara County, and California of significant tax revenue.

Oh well, at least Cupertino gets to have its weather displayed as the default on Apple products.

Nye Bevan

(25,406 posts)
4. And if this was not possible, Apple would not base themselves in California at all,
Tue May 19, 2015, 12:32 PM
May 2015

and California would then also be deprived of the state income tax receipts from Apple workers who are based there.

Nye Bevan

(25,406 posts)
6. Tech Company to Bring 400 Jobs to Reno
Tue May 19, 2015, 12:46 PM
May 2015
RENO, NV - Another tech company has announced it is moving its headquarters to Reno. With it comes plans to bring about 400 high-paying jobs. The business has the potential to bring some pretty significant advancements to downtown Reno.

Clear Capital is planning to make downtown Reno its headquarters by March. It will initially bring 150 jobs, but within 5 years there will be 400 jobs, all of which are high paying.

"Today's announcement proves that our momentum from the economic development success of 2014 is rolling right into 2015," said Governor Sandoval.

http://www.kolotv.com/home/headlines/Tech-Company-to-Bring-400-Jobs-in-Reno-287738001.html?device=phone&c=y



RENO, Nev. — A street newly nicknamed Startup Row intersects this city’s old strip of casinos touting Money Maker Jackpots and Crazy Cash Slot Tournaments.

While old-fashioned slot machines are whirring nearby, this stretch of road has become a home for smartphone app makers, cloud computing developers and companies like one that set up shop here recently to build tiny sensors that allow devices to connect to the Internet.

For most of America, Reno stirs images of worn-out casinos, strip clubs and quick divorces. But it is trying to change that reputation and reduce its reliance on gambling by taking advantage of its location and low taxes to gain a solid footing in the new economy. Instead of poker payouts, Reno now boasts of e-commerce ventures, an Apple data center and a testing ground for drones. It also hopes to attract a large factory to build batteries for Tesla’s electric vehicles.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/07/07/business/reno-nevada-recasts-itself-as-home-to-tech-start-ups.html?referrer=&_r=0

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
12. That's right, let's keep caving into bribery in order to keep Americans working. There are simply no
Tue May 19, 2015, 01:03 PM
May 2015

other ways to create jobs, to force major Corps who want to operate in this country, to abide by fair laws etc.

I feel the way people who were subjected to Mafia 'Protection' must have felt - Pay UP OR ELSE!

Enough with this attempt to defend the Corporate Corruption that has been enabled by our equally corrupt or at the very least, inept Government for far too long.

WE should be the ones making the rules. We the People through those we elect to do so on our behalf.

Thanks for reminding me AGAIN why this country is ruled by Corrupt Corporations. We are just too WEAK to stand up for ourselves, so let the bullies win, right?

Nye Bevan

(25,406 posts)
14. That's a separate discussion. The OP accused Apple of "plundering",
Tue May 19, 2015, 01:13 PM
May 2015

I merely pointed out that under the current system they are behaving rationally. You can of course argue that the system should be changed, but in the meantime you can't really blame Apple.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
16. What I can do is state my opinion of people who take unfair advantage of a system that is
Tue May 19, 2015, 01:19 PM
May 2015

deeply corrupt. And I can judge them accordingly.

Not all of us have lost our integrity yet.

If we all had Apple's 'moral standards' many of us could be pretty wealthy.

I, eg, have turned down many offers that 'no one could have blamed me for accepting' because I would have had to compromise my own principles to do so. So I know it can be done. It all depends on the standards one sets for themselves and their country.

Nye Bevan

(25,406 posts)
17. Apple could certainly write an extra check for $1 billion and give it to the government,
Tue May 19, 2015, 01:21 PM
May 2015

just to show they are nice guys.

They would then, of course, be sued by their shareholders.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
22. Like I said, integrity and honesty aren't worth much in this system we keep on defending.
Tue May 19, 2015, 01:26 PM
May 2015

But to some people they are still worth more than 'all the tea in China'.

You can't take all those billions with you when you leave this planet.

Nor can all those billions buy what is far more valuable in the scheme of things.

Nye Bevan

(25,406 posts)
2. So why did nobody else "take years of public research, integrate the results,
Tue May 19, 2015, 12:29 PM
May 2015

and package it as their own"? Why didn't Microsoft (for example) beat them to the punch? And of course Apple does everything they can to legally minimize their taxes; if they did not, they would be vulnerable to shareholder lawsuits. And what's wrong with charging a price for their products that customers are willing to pay?

Apple has not "plundered" anything; they have invented beautiful, consumer-friendly products that people are happy to pay a premium price for, and are reaping their just rewards.

Nye Bevan

(25,406 posts)
19. Apparently the argument is that they hired some ex-government researchers.
Tue May 19, 2015, 01:24 PM
May 2015

Of course Microsoft and anyone else were free to do the same thing.


Sent from my Zune (not)

1939

(1,683 posts)
15. Engineer here
Tue May 19, 2015, 01:18 PM
May 2015

I took everything from my textbooks, faculty lectures and seminars, professional society journals and symposia, and co-worker consultations to create the products for which i was responsible. I guess morally, i should have done everything in an isolation chamber..

Nye Bevan

(25,406 posts)
20. You, sir, are a thief and a plunderer,
Tue May 19, 2015, 01:25 PM
May 2015

according to the logic of several posters in this thread.

n2doc

(47,953 posts)
7. The whole point of publicly funded research is to provide the basis for new ideas
Tue May 19, 2015, 12:51 PM
May 2015

Those researchers weren't going to refine what they had done, put it together and make a iPhone for example. I see nothing wrong here. Lots of other companies have done the same. And we should be funding more basic research so that it continues in the future.

n2doc

(47,953 posts)
10. I see no evidence of "theft"
Tue May 19, 2015, 12:55 PM
May 2015

And if one wants to complain about their use of Chinese Labor, perhaps one should look at all the trade agreements that made all that possible, in fact, necessary, since the required skills aren't here in the USA anymore.

AZ Progressive

(3,411 posts)
9. Thing about Apple is that there's no other better alternative
Tue May 19, 2015, 12:54 PM
May 2015

A Macbook Pro is a laptop with a screen good enough to do graphics work. To get an equivalent screen, you'd have to buy a Windows Laptop at about the same price, but then OSX is much better than Windows (thanks Bill Gates.)

IOS is superior to Android, and the protection against viruses and other malware is a big thing for mobile devices (though you pay for it with the lack of a file system.) The amount of apps is still better on IOS.



Apple makes more because it has better products, because Apple takes more time to refine its products than its competitors. Apple's ideas may not be original but it's implementation is top notch.

n2doc

(47,953 posts)
11. And I don't see how such a product is any better than Apple's in terms of labor or Int. Property
Tue May 19, 2015, 12:57 PM
May 2015

They all use the same suppliers. They all use the same tech. Most let Apple take the lead on design and integration of new tech.

moondust

(19,979 posts)
21. Don't buy it.
Tue May 19, 2015, 01:26 PM
May 2015

I don't know about IOS, but Apple has a long history of limiting its products to only using proprietary software, while Windows and Android have allowed developers everywhere to implement their own ideas and compete against each other, creating a much more robust and diverse computing environment.

hunter

(38,311 posts)
26. OSX was built on top of BSD, when Apple's homegrown operating systems became too unweildy
Tue May 19, 2015, 01:42 PM
May 2015

BSD, for Berkeley Software Distribution, is a clone of the Unix operating system developed by the University of California, after AT&T, a government regulated, protected, and subsidized monopoly, got snooty about licensing.

Personally, I refuse to use any Apple or Windows products unless someone is paying me.

 

Sobax

(110 posts)
27. Apple made money because of the Cult of Steve Jobs
Tue May 19, 2015, 01:45 PM
May 2015

Can't deny the man had an eye for aesthetics and knew his market (hipsters and fan boys), but from a technical point of view, you could get a similar spec product for half the price of an Apple.

F4lconF16

(3,747 posts)
28. Disagree.
Tue May 19, 2015, 01:47 PM
May 2015

There are numerous examples of laptops with high-end screens good enough for graphics work. Actually, the only way to get the high-end graphics components may be to run a Windows machine, as I don't believe Apple does much in the workstation business. Depends on your needs. I'd get one if I did a lot more creative work.

Apple also charges wayyyy more than it needs to for its components. A 128gb ssd upgrade was some $200+ last I checked, which is kind of insane.

Windows is vastly more compatible with different things, and it's a more powerful OS for those of us more advanced than most Apple users, and not advanced enough to really get into the heart of a system, where I think Apple has a much better base.

Unfortunately, iOS is too limiting for me despite the generally more polished usage and the app store. I like the full-customization possible with Android, which I use to great effect to make a comfortable interface for my needs. You can't do that with iOS.

 

closeupready

(29,503 posts)
24. I don't personally like Apple, and I really didn't like
Tue May 19, 2015, 01:31 PM
May 2015

what Jobs did with regards to trying to avoid his obligation to support his daughter, nor did I like his vengeful promises to punish Bill Gates, which was detailed in an expose about him a year or so after his death.

I also didn't like the allegations that some of their principals may have colluded with other tech companies in agreeing not to poach workers from each other, particularly when viewed through the prism of H1-B's and their separate depressing effect on tech sector wages.

Binkie The Clown

(7,911 posts)
29. My observation, for what it's worth:
Tue May 19, 2015, 02:33 PM
May 2015

Everyone who supports Apple has been taken in by their skillful propaganda. They think of themselves as "cool", "hip", "green", "socially responsible", "tech savvy", and every other "I'm better than you" adjective Apple has trained them to apply to themselves. They truly do think of themselves as "holier than thou."

People who think they are so clever, and so ahead of the curve, and so righteous, are sucked in like fish on a hook by clever propaganda that affirms, bolsters, and justifies their self-aggrandizing picture of themselves. And the real shame is that they don't even realize that they have been duped. I think of them as "holier than thou and stupider than most."

Owning an Apple product is no different than owning a Rolls Royce or a Hummer. It's for show. It's for the status that the owner believes that owning that product confers upon him. It's a way of saying "Look at me. I'm special."

moondust

(19,979 posts)
30. +1000
Tue May 19, 2015, 03:26 PM
May 2015

Well stated. Over-priced, status-sucking, wasteful yuppie elitism has captured some of my close relatives.

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