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Tue May 19, 2015, 04:43 PM

(HRC) is as liberal as Elizabeth Warren and barely more moderate than Bernie Sanders.

A bunch of reporters have recently discovered a shocking truth: Hillary Clinton is liberal! (I heard a rumor that Columbo has been helping with the investigation.)

We’ve gotten this raft of “Clinton is liberal” exposés as Clinton has revved up her 2016 campaign, speaking out in support of gay marriage, a pathway to citizenship for immigrants in the U.S. illegally, and criminal justice reform. But what many of these articles miss is that Clinton has always been, by most measures, pretty far to the left. When she’s shifted positions, it has been in concert with the entire Democratic Party.

...

Clinton also has a history of very liberal public statements. Clinton rates as a “hard core liberal” per the OnTheIssues.org scale. She is as liberal as Elizabeth Warren and barely more moderate than Bernie Sanders. And while Obama is also a “hard core liberal,” Clinton again was rated as more liberal than Obama.

...

http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/hillary-clinton-was-liberal-hillary-clinton-is-liberal/

161 replies, 6334 views

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Reply (HRC) is as liberal as Elizabeth Warren and barely more moderate than Bernie Sanders. (Original post)
Dem2 May 2015 OP
hfojvt May 2015 #1
tech3149 May 2015 #15
JaneyVee May 2015 #21
Marr May 2015 #94
DemocratSinceBirth May 2015 #104
RufusTFirefly May 2015 #126
NoJusticeNoPeace May 2015 #2
HooptieWagon May 2015 #3
Vincardog May 2015 #30
HooptieWagon May 2015 #50
Vincardog May 2015 #54
MaggieD May 2015 #68
MissDeeds May 2015 #81
Vincardog May 2015 #89
MissDeeds May 2015 #95
darkangel218 May 2015 #91
RufusTFirefly May 2015 #128
840high May 2015 #131
cali May 2015 #4
hifiguy May 2015 #7
JaneyVee May 2015 #18
cali May 2015 #23
JaneyVee May 2015 #27
cali May 2015 #65
uponit7771 May 2015 #26
MaggieD May 2015 #70
DemocratSinceBirth May 2015 #105
Jackpine Radical May 2015 #32
JaneyVee May 2015 #36
cali May 2015 #86
AZ Progressive May 2015 #112
MaggieD May 2015 #101
Fumesucker May 2015 #5
AtomicKitten May 2015 #38
rhett o rick May 2015 #71
darkangel218 May 2015 #93
InAbLuEsTaTe May 2015 #135
Dem2 May 2015 #58
hifiguy May 2015 #6
bluesbassman May 2015 #109
guillaumeb May 2015 #8
hrmjustin May 2015 #9
cali May 2015 #12
hrmjustin May 2015 #13
cali May 2015 #24
hrmjustin May 2015 #25
rhett o rick May 2015 #137
Exilednight May 2015 #10
arcane1 May 2015 #11
hifiguy May 2015 #63
Autumn May 2015 #14
GoneOffShore May 2015 #16
Dem2 May 2015 #52
DemocratSinceBirth May 2015 #111
Dem2 May 2015 #116
DemocratSinceBirth May 2015 #117
Dem2 May 2015 #118
DemocratSinceBirth May 2015 #119
Dem2 May 2015 #121
InAbLuEsTaTe May 2015 #136
TheKentuckian May 2015 #17
KamaAina May 2015 #22
LineLineLineReply .
arcane1 May 2015 #28
Jackpine Radical May 2015 #35
arcane1 May 2015 #39
joshcryer May 2015 #19
hrmjustin May 2015 #20
MaggieD May 2015 #33
hrmjustin May 2015 #41
MaggieD May 2015 #51
hrmjustin May 2015 #53
Autumn May 2015 #66
Bobbie Jo May 2015 #115
Dem2 May 2015 #43
hrmjustin May 2015 #45
hrmjustin May 2015 #62
TDale313 May 2015 #29
MaggieD May 2015 #31
CharlotteVale May 2015 #34
Jackpine Radical May 2015 #40
MaggieD May 2015 #47
libdem4life May 2015 #55
MaggieD May 2015 #60
libdem4life May 2015 #78
MaggieD May 2015 #46
CharlotteVale May 2015 #114
Hoyt May 2015 #37
Jackpine Radical May 2015 #42
Hoyt May 2015 #44
MaggieD May 2015 #48
Jackpine Radical May 2015 #49
Autumn May 2015 #56
99Forever May 2015 #57
tiredtoo May 2015 #59
MaggieD May 2015 #61
tiredtoo May 2015 #67
MaggieD May 2015 #73
tiredtoo May 2015 #76
rhett o rick May 2015 #85
MaggieD May 2015 #156
tiredtoo May 2015 #158
cascadiance May 2015 #155
Katashi_itto May 2015 #64
rhett o rick May 2015 #69
MaggieD May 2015 #72
truebluegreen May 2015 #77
rhett o rick May 2015 #80
MaggieD May 2015 #84
rhett o rick May 2015 #87
MaggieD May 2015 #97
Agschmid May 2015 #123
rhett o rick May 2015 #159
LineLineLineReply .
hrmjustin May 2015 #82
hrmjustin May 2015 #90
rhett o rick May 2015 #138
hrmjustin May 2015 #140
rhett o rick May 2015 #143
hrmjustin May 2015 #144
rhett o rick May 2015 #147
hrmjustin May 2015 #148
Agschmid May 2015 #122
rhett o rick May 2015 #139
giftedgirl77 May 2015 #157
Mnpaul May 2015 #74
MaggieD May 2015 #98
Mnpaul May 2015 #102
MaggieD May 2015 #106
Mnpaul May 2015 #113
Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin May 2015 #103
onehandle May 2015 #75
BreakfastClub May 2015 #79
rhett o rick May 2015 #83
MaggieD May 2015 #99
rhett o rick May 2015 #141
MaggieD May 2015 #142
rhett o rick May 2015 #146
MaggieD May 2015 #149
rhett o rick May 2015 #150
MaggieD May 2015 #152
rhett o rick May 2015 #153
MaggieD May 2015 #154
rhett o rick May 2015 #160
Ruby the Liberal May 2015 #88
Thinkingabout May 2015 #92
SomethingFishy May 2015 #96
lovemydog May 2015 #100
Number23 May 2015 #107
Agschmid May 2015 #124
giftedgirl77 May 2015 #130
Number23 May 2015 #134
AZ Progressive May 2015 #108
840high May 2015 #132
marmar May 2015 #110
frylock May 2015 #120
Agschmid May 2015 #125
frylock May 2015 #133
MaggieD May 2015 #145
frylock May 2015 #161
bunnies May 2015 #127
MannyGoldstein May 2015 #129
DJ13 May 2015 #151

Response to Dem2 (Original post)

Tue May 19, 2015, 04:45 PM

1. "while Obama is also a 'hard core liberal'"

best laugh of the day

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Response to hfojvt (Reply #1)

Tue May 19, 2015, 05:12 PM

15. Perspective is a wonderful thing

I think those "while Obama is also a 'hard core liberal'" types might need to live a few days in my reality.
It ain't so warm and fuzzy when your holding the shitty end of the stick.

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Response to hfojvt (Reply #1)

Tue May 19, 2015, 05:18 PM

21. Liberalism is the new center. Makes sense.

 

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Response to hfojvt (Reply #1)

Tue May 19, 2015, 06:51 PM

94. lol-- no kidding. /nt

 

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Response to hfojvt (Reply #1)

Tue May 19, 2015, 07:36 PM

104. On an American political plane he probably is...

Everything is relative... If you compared the Jets to the Harvard Crimson football team they would look like a juggernaut but if you compared them to the Seattle Seahawks or just about any other professional football team they would look pretty much like a joke.






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Response to hfojvt (Reply #1)

Tue May 19, 2015, 09:10 PM

126. Wait! I thought he was a Muslim socialist! n/t

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Response to Dem2 (Original post)

Tue May 19, 2015, 04:47 PM

2. I agree, but I also believe that our definitions are limited to what we have

historically seen politically.

A liberal in Northern Europe would favor free higher education paid for by taxation on the rich and corps, and nationalizing of some essentials.

Universal healthcare, guaranteed standard of living, etc.

I will support Hillary if and when Bernie is out of the picture, but I believe there is plenty of room for improvement and almost all of it has to do with Wall STreet and banksters.

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Response to Dem2 (Original post)

Tue May 19, 2015, 04:49 PM

3. HRC is a war-mongering corporatist.

 

That disqualifies her as President to me.

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Response to HooptieWagon (Reply #3)

Tue May 19, 2015, 05:36 PM

30. But she is a "Liberal" war-mongering corporatist. That is why Wall St. supports her.

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Response to Vincardog (Reply #30)

Tue May 19, 2015, 05:51 PM

50. True, she's more "liberal" than McCain or Lindsay Graham.

 

But that's like saying Stalin is more "liberal" than Hitler. I'm just not going to support the "lesser of two evils", when there's so much I disagree with.

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Response to HooptieWagon (Reply #50)

Tue May 19, 2015, 05:57 PM

54. You have to admit she is more liberal than any OTHER republican running.

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Response to Vincardog (Reply #54)

Tue May 19, 2015, 06:15 PM

68. She's more liberal than Bill and Obama too

 

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Response to Vincardog (Reply #54)

Tue May 19, 2015, 06:29 PM

81. Good one!

 

"...more liberal than any OTHER Republican running."

Love it!

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Response to MissDeeds (Reply #81)

Tue May 19, 2015, 06:43 PM

89. The truth hurts.

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Response to Vincardog (Reply #89)

Tue May 19, 2015, 06:55 PM

95. Yes it does

 

And thanks for telling it!

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Response to HooptieWagon (Reply #3)

Tue May 19, 2015, 06:48 PM

91. That disqualifies her as President to many.

 

Now that Bernie is running , her centrism is even more evident.

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Response to HooptieWagon (Reply #3)

Tue May 19, 2015, 09:11 PM

128. Bingo!! +1,000! Me too. n/t

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Response to HooptieWagon (Reply #3)

Tue May 19, 2015, 09:49 PM

131. +1

 

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Response to Dem2 (Original post)

Tue May 19, 2015, 04:50 PM

4. bulloney. Hillary supports the TPP. She doesn't want to raise the income

 

cap on SS. She voted for the IWR. She voted for god-awful bankruptcy bill. She won't discuss raising taxes on the wealthiest and in 2008 she rejected it out of hand (maybe she's evolved again) In 2008 she was against drivers licenses for undocumented immigrants and supported deportation- including kids. She didn't support full marriage equality until about 2 minutes ago. Gung ho on military intervention in Libya. Advocated for it in Syria.

Puleez.

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Response to cali (Reply #4)

Tue May 19, 2015, 04:56 PM

7. Tis truth.

 

Facts are stubborn things.

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Response to cali (Reply #4)

Tue May 19, 2015, 05:16 PM

18. Progressive icon FDR rounded up ethnic groups in internment camps.

 

Killed millions, and lets not even discuss his stance on minorities and marriage equality.

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Response to JaneyVee (Reply #18)

Tue May 19, 2015, 05:19 PM

23. I really wish people didn't use anachronistic arguments

 

It just demonstrates a lack of knowledge about history and historiography.

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Response to cali (Reply #23)

Tue May 19, 2015, 05:23 PM

27. Hey, if we're stripping purity credentials...

 

The least we could do is not be hypocrites about the process.

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Response to JaneyVee (Reply #27)

Tue May 19, 2015, 06:07 PM

65. do you have any idea what a historically anachronistic argument is?

 

(something I learned at my pappy's knee) Look, you can't take something out of its historical context and try to paste it on to another period in history. This is pretty basic stuff. Arguably you can discuss the interment of Japanese Americans in conjunction with today's world (some historians argue that you can't, but I disagree with them) but you can't throw marriage equality into it, as that wasn't a concept that was in the political dialog at all 75 years ago. And the millions killed in WWII? That's just flat out silly.

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Response to JaneyVee (Reply #18)

Tue May 19, 2015, 05:23 PM

26. He also busted union strikes with federal troops

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #26)

Tue May 19, 2015, 06:18 PM

70. That 'effin corrupt corporate stooge

 

But let's be real. No one passes the liberal puretopian test. At least not for long. Obama was a demigod to this same crowd, and in the blink of an eye he was then the devil.

This is why politicians ignore the extremists. That's the exact reason. They really can't be made happy.

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #26)

Tue May 19, 2015, 07:41 PM

105. That was Truman when he busted the steel strike./NT

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Response to JaneyVee (Reply #18)

Tue May 19, 2015, 05:38 PM

32. And he was fucking wrong, Wrong, WRONG

(and dare I say criminal in permitting the internment camps.

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Response to Jackpine Radical (Reply #32)

Tue May 19, 2015, 05:41 PM

36. Yet he's a progressive icon and ranked #1 by presidential scholars.

 

Obama is way more progressive on nearly every issue but today's progressives still not happy.

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Response to JaneyVee (Reply #36)

Tue May 19, 2015, 06:35 PM

86. no, President Obama isn't close to being as progressive as FDR

 

I doubt you could find a single Presidential historian who would claim that. 2008-2016 is not 1933--1945. Saying President Obama is for marriage equality and FDR wasn't, is pure bunk.\

The New Deal was revolutionary in a way that nothing President Obama has advocated and achieved, is. And I applaud him for the ACA, but it's not New Deal.

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Response to JaneyVee (Reply #18)

Tue May 19, 2015, 07:50 PM

112. If you want to go down that road...

Then your supporting a country that brutalized african americans, committed genocide on Native Americans, and has supported dictator after dictator, that brutalized their own people, in countries around the world throughout at least the past 115 years. Obama himself is supporting the Honduras Government that has allowed gangs to control the streets and has allowed it to become the murder capital of the world. Not to mention the drone war that has killed many innocents and has fanned the flames of terrorism in the middle east.

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Response to cali (Reply #4)

Tue May 19, 2015, 07:20 PM

101. So you keep saying

 

Even as you also complain she wont take a stand on it. LOL!

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Response to Dem2 (Original post)

Tue May 19, 2015, 04:51 PM

5. Welcome to DU..

Best laugh I've had today...

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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #5)

Tue May 19, 2015, 05:42 PM

38. I was looking for a link to the Onion.

 

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Response to AtomicKitten (Reply #38)

Tue May 19, 2015, 06:19 PM

71. There seems to be a raft of new DU members pushing the meme that HRC is as liberal as Sen Warren.

 

This is bull crap of course.

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #71)

Tue May 19, 2015, 06:50 PM

93. And its only the begining.

 

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #71)

Tue May 19, 2015, 11:12 PM

135. You can say that again - Hillary represents phony liberalism at its worst.

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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #5)

Tue May 19, 2015, 05:59 PM

58. Thanks :)

I like to think we have decent candidates this cycle.

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Response to Dem2 (Original post)

Tue May 19, 2015, 04:55 PM

6. To quote that well-known philosopher

 

Bugs Bunny, it is to laugh.

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Response to hifiguy (Reply #6)

Tue May 19, 2015, 07:44 PM

109. Yes, and to quote that fighter of injustice...

Inigo Montoya: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means".

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Response to Dem2 (Original post)

Tue May 19, 2015, 04:57 PM

8. Barack Obama and HRC would be seen as center right in most European countries.

And in most of the Americas as well. The political conversation in this country varies from center right to far right. More accurately from center right to fascism.

ANYONE who is in favor of the TPP, or NAFTA, or GATT, or any of the so-called trade agreements that have devastated US manufacturing and lowered US wages cannot by any stretch be called a liberal.

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Response to Dem2 (Original post)

Tue May 19, 2015, 04:58 PM

9. Thanks for posting this.

 

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Response to hrmjustin (Reply #9)

Tue May 19, 2015, 05:02 PM

12. ya gotta love the flat out lies in that piece

 

not to mention the misinformation.

<snip>

There have been a few issues on which Hillary Clinton has taken more centrist positions. She, of course, voted for the Iraq War (she now says that was a mistake). Clinton has been mostly pro free trade (although she hasn’t said much of anything on the Trans-Pacific Partnership). And she has been against marijuana legalization, and seemingly
remains so.

<snip>

She is pro TPP. She makes that crystal clear in her book.

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Response to cali (Reply #12)

Tue May 19, 2015, 05:04 PM

13. She said she will wait to hear the full proposal before she makes a judgment.

 

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Response to hrmjustin (Reply #13)

Tue May 19, 2015, 05:21 PM

24. she already made a POST state department judgment. It's in her POST

 

state department book. She highly touts the tpp. so the wait and see stuff just isn't honest. it's blatant political maneuvering.

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Response to cali (Reply #24)

Tue May 19, 2015, 05:23 PM

25. Well we shall see what she says.

 

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Response to hrmjustin (Reply #13)

Tue May 19, 2015, 11:16 PM

137. Yep, like standing on a train track and saying you will believe it when the train runs over you. nm

 

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Response to Dem2 (Original post)

Tue May 19, 2015, 04:59 PM

10. Based on what?

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Response to Dem2 (Original post)

Tue May 19, 2015, 05:01 PM

11. "When she’s shifted positions, it has been in concert with the entire Democratic Party"

 

Why is this considered a good thing? If anything, it makes it seem as though she has no positions of her own, and adopts the "official" positions only when she's told to adopt them.

That's a strike against her, IMO.

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Response to arcane1 (Reply #11)

Tue May 19, 2015, 06:06 PM

63. Yep. Leaders LEAD, they don't follow the herd. nt

 

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Response to Dem2 (Original post)

Tue May 19, 2015, 05:11 PM

14. Well bless Nate Silvers little blog

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Response to Dem2 (Original post)

Tue May 19, 2015, 05:13 PM

16. Welcome to DU.

Enjoy your stay and do try the pizza.

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Response to GoneOffShore (Reply #16)

Tue May 19, 2015, 05:53 PM

52. Thank you for the warm welcome.

I like onions and peppers on mine...

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Response to Dem2 (Reply #52)

Tue May 19, 2015, 07:48 PM

111. Don't let them bully you...

It's people who talk the most shit on the net who are the most pusillanimous in real life...

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Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Reply #111)

Tue May 19, 2015, 08:26 PM

116. Pusilanimous

OK, that's a new one to me, thank you Google for right-click "search for..."

Also, can you order some home-made sausage on my pizza too? (yes, I am being facetious)

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Response to Dem2 (Reply #116)

Tue May 19, 2015, 08:38 PM

117. You should have told him to look at your journal...

You have several entries that can be construed as pro-Sanders.

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Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Reply #117)

Tue May 19, 2015, 08:47 PM

118. I'm new here though I would think one could see what I've posted to date

I like Bernie - he has my heart, I like Hillary, she has my brain. I like our candidates.

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Response to Dem2 (Reply #118)

Tue May 19, 2015, 08:50 PM

119. I can tell...

Maybe we will have that pizza on election eve when we have something to celebrate.


You do know what the pizza reference was, don't you?

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Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Reply #119)

Tue May 19, 2015, 09:02 PM

121. Yes

I may be new, but I'm not naive

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Response to Dem2 (Reply #52)

Tue May 19, 2015, 11:14 PM

136. Anchovies...yummmm.

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Response to Dem2 (Original post)

Tue May 19, 2015, 05:13 PM

17. Tell Mr. Roarke and Tattoo that I said wassup.

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Response to TheKentuckian (Reply #17)

Tue May 19, 2015, 05:18 PM

22. What kind of M&Ms does Tattoo like?

 

Ze plain! Ze plain!

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Response to KamaAina (Reply #22)

Tue May 19, 2015, 05:25 PM

28. .

 

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Response to arcane1 (Reply #28)

Tue May 19, 2015, 05:41 PM

35. Sometimes I wish I were part of this culture

so I would understand references like that.

Fortunately, those moments pass quickly.

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Response to Jackpine Radical (Reply #35)

Tue May 19, 2015, 05:43 PM

39. Sometimes I wish I didn't understand them :)

 

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Response to Dem2 (Original post)

Tue May 19, 2015, 05:16 PM

19. Hillary, Bill, Obama, they are all probably more liberal than people know.

It's the party that is moderate, but has been increasingly shifting more to the left.

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Response to Dem2 (Original post)

Tue May 19, 2015, 05:18 PM

20. You are welcome to post this in the HRC room.

 

http://election.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1107


Likely to get more pleasant responses.

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Response to hrmjustin (Reply #20)

Tue May 19, 2015, 05:39 PM

33. I'm going to post pro-HRC stuff in GD

 

Everyday I can get near a computer. Just to offset the screeds. I think others should as well. Love this thread right here!

And when it is all said and done, I will vote for the Democratic nominee.

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #33)

Tue May 19, 2015, 05:45 PM

41. And you are always welcome in the HRC room.

 

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Response to hrmjustin (Reply #41)

Tue May 19, 2015, 05:52 PM

51. Thank you

 

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #51)

Tue May 19, 2015, 05:55 PM

53. My pleasure! Give them hell!

 

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #33)

Tue May 19, 2015, 06:08 PM

66. I bought a new smart phone because I hated

not being near a computer.

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #33)

Tue May 19, 2015, 07:58 PM

115. And you are well within the TOS

of this site to do so.

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Response to hrmjustin (Reply #20)

Tue May 19, 2015, 05:46 PM

43. You're more than welcome to post it there

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Response to Dem2 (Reply #43)

Tue May 19, 2015, 05:47 PM

45. Thanks. i will in a few minutes.

 

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Response to Dem2 (Original post)

Tue May 19, 2015, 05:29 PM

29. Yeah, sure.



Only from the same scale that has people actually believing Obama's a socialist.

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Response to Dem2 (Original post)

Tue May 19, 2015, 05:38 PM

31. On no - the truth - it burns (some people)

 

LOL!

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Response to Dem2 (Original post)

Tue May 19, 2015, 05:40 PM

34. Funny, the only ones I hear calling out Wall Street

are Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders.

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Response to CharlotteVale (Reply #34)

Tue May 19, 2015, 05:44 PM

40. Well, to be fair,

Hillary is calling out TO Wall St.

While the finance industry does genuinely hate Warren, the big bankers love Clinton, and by and large they badly want her to be president. Many of the rich and powerful in the financial industry—among them, Goldman Sachs CEO Lloyd Blankfein, Morgan Stanley CEO James Gorman, Tom Nides, a powerful vice chairman at Morgan Stanley, and the heads of JPMorganChase and Bank of America—consider Clinton a pragmatic problem-solver not prone to populist rhetoric. To them, she’s someone who gets the idea that we all benefit if Wall Street and American business thrive. What about her forays into fiery rhetoric? They dismiss it quickly as political maneuvers. None of them think she really means her populism.


Read more: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/11/why-wall-street-loves-hillary-112782.html#ixzz3acwy4MjN

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Response to Jackpine Radical (Reply #40)

Tue May 19, 2015, 05:50 PM

47. You can listen to what the right wing media says...

 

Or you can listen to what the candidate says:

"Speaking with small business owners in Cedar Falls, Iowa, the Democratic presidential frontrunner on Tuesday offered a full-throated defense of a law that's served as a thorn in the side of big banks: Dodd-Frank.

"It's not the big banks that need relief from Washington -- it's small banks and small businesses," Clinton said. "We should be doing more to rein in risky behavior on Wall Street and 'Too Big to Fail.'"

The former secretary of state also scolded what she said were attempts by congressional Republicans to roll back consumer protection provisions and regulations aimed at big banks in Dodd-Frank, calling them "a cynical attempt to game the system for those at the top."

http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/19/politics/hillary-clinton-big-banks/

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #47)

Tue May 19, 2015, 05:57 PM

55. The Big Banks already have their Treasure Trove it was very important. It was called The Bailout.

 

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Response to libdem4life (Reply #55)

Tue May 19, 2015, 06:02 PM

60. Which she had nothing to do with

 

You forgot to add that.

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #60)

Tue May 19, 2015, 06:27 PM

78. Should have put it like this "It's not the big banks that need relief from Washington, (they already

 

got theirs)...and I wasn't blaming her, at least on this. She says she wants to "reign in risky behavior of the big banks" who pay her those 6 figure speaking gigs. You don't get $30 million in a few months working with or for small business. Disingenuous.

And I don't believe what she says when it is a sudden conversion based on what Bernie is saying. She's not about to break up the big banks, which is the only way to do what she says she wants to do. That "small business plan" could be written by any staffer with a college degree.

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Response to CharlotteVale (Reply #34)

Tue May 19, 2015, 05:47 PM

46. Then you aren't paying attention, perhaps

 

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #46)

Tue May 19, 2015, 07:58 PM

114. I've been paying attention to Clinton's ties to Wall Street since she

voted for the hideous Bankruptcy Reform Act of 2001.

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Response to Dem2 (Original post)

Tue May 19, 2015, 05:41 PM

37. Not only that, she can get things done. More importantly, she can win.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #37)

Tue May 19, 2015, 05:45 PM

42. The question is whether those things she can get done

are things we WANT done.

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Response to Jackpine Radical (Reply #42)

Tue May 19, 2015, 05:47 PM

44. I think you can rest easy. She'll get a lot of good stuff done, if for no other reason that she can

WIN.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #44)

Tue May 19, 2015, 05:50 PM

48. Agreed

 

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #44)

Tue May 19, 2015, 05:51 PM

49. TPP, fracking, and having Serious Conversations abut the petty concerns of the Vast Unwashed?

Hell, yes, I know she was poor once, and not so long ago at that. $10 mil in the hole when they left the White House.

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Response to Dem2 (Original post)

Tue May 19, 2015, 05:58 PM

56. How very disappointing. I see no exploded heads

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Response to Dem2 (Original post)

Tue May 19, 2015, 05:58 PM

57. Cool story bro!

I love a good laugh! Tell us another whopper.





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Response to Dem2 (Original post)

Tue May 19, 2015, 06:00 PM

59. She may be a liberal on social issues but

on economic issues she is far too right for me.

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Response to tiredtoo (Reply #59)

Tue May 19, 2015, 06:02 PM

61. Can you provide examples?

 

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #61)

Tue May 19, 2015, 06:09 PM

67. No word from her on TPP, Larry Summers

Just a couple of items of concern along with her being banked by Wall Street.

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Response to tiredtoo (Reply #67)

Tue May 19, 2015, 06:21 PM

73. She has had plenty of words about the TPP

 

So, try again.

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #73)

Tue May 19, 2015, 06:26 PM

76. Larry Summers and

Only word i heard on TPP is wait and see.

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #73)

Tue May 19, 2015, 06:33 PM

85. Is she recommending it be voted down? If so, I missed it. nm

 

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Response to tiredtoo (Reply #67)

Wed May 20, 2015, 12:19 AM

156. Sorry, that's just not true

 

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #156)

Wed May 20, 2015, 05:58 AM

158. here is a link concerning Hillary and TPP

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #61)

Wed May 20, 2015, 12:14 AM

155. This is NOT a liberal stance!

 




THIS is a liberal stance on "guest worker" (indentured servant labor) programs like H1B and H2B...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/05/25/this-is-a-massive-effort-to-attract-cheap-labor-why-sen-bernie-sanders-is-skeptical-of-guest-workers/

...
The bottom line is that I feel, very much, that a lot of the initiative behind these guest workers programs, a very large expansion of guest worker programs — H2B visas would go up to as many as 195,000, H1B to as many as 205,000 a year — is coming from large corporations who want cheap labor from abroad. Absolutely, there is a need for foreign labor. I recognize that in agriculture and certain areas in the high tech industry, you need foreign labor. But this is a massive effort to attract cheap labor, a great disservice to American workers.
...


More data in this DU post...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026630065

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Response to Dem2 (Original post)

Tue May 19, 2015, 06:07 PM

64. Fail.

 

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Response to Dem2 (Original post)

Tue May 19, 2015, 06:17 PM

69. Funny how the new posters here in DU seem to all favor HRC. Maybe my imagination. nm

 

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #69)

Tue May 19, 2015, 06:20 PM

72. Funny how the same people that thought Obama....

 

... was their puretopian god turned against him the second he had to actually govern. See? Some things are not new at all.

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #72)

Tue May 19, 2015, 06:27 PM

77. Are you familiar with the website politicalcompass.org?

 

It is fascinating...and sometimes appalling. I was there just yesterday, looking at their analysis of the candidates in 2012. The money quote regarding Obama:

Taking office during the financial meltdown, Obama appointed its principle architects to top economic positions. We list these because many of Obama's detractors absurdly portray him as either a radical liberal or a socialist, while his apologists, equally absurdly, continue to view him as a well-intentioned progressive, tragically thwarted by overwhelming pressures....Between 1998 and the last election, Obama amassed $37.6million from the financial services industry, according to the Center for Responsive Politics. While 2008 presidential candidate Obama appeared to champion universal health care, his first choice for Secretary of Health was a man who had spent years lobbying on behalf of the pharmaceutical industry against that very concept. Hey! You don't promise a successful pub, and then appoint the Salvation Army to run it. This time around, the honey-tongued President makes populist references to economic justice, while simultaneously appointing as his new Chief of Staff a former Citigroup executive concerned with hedge funds that bet on the housing market to collapse. Obama poses something of a challenge to The Political Compass, because he's a man of so few fixed principles.

My bold.

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #72)

Tue May 19, 2015, 06:28 PM

80. Obama ran as a progressive and governed as a Conservative. While HRC may be on the same page

 

as Sen Warren on social issues, she differs greatly on economic, foreign policy, MIC, and Security State issues.

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #80)

Tue May 19, 2015, 06:33 PM

84. I think she is dead on re: FP

 

And so is Obama. Maximum impact with minimal blood and treasure spilled.

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #84)

Tue May 19, 2015, 06:38 PM

87. Neither are liberal on Foreign Policy. Obama is killing people with drones like there is no

 

tomorrow. I think the innocent to SUSPECTED terrorists ratio is 10 to 1. Some are children but I guess that can be rationalized away. In any case it aint liberal.

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #87)

Tue May 19, 2015, 07:14 PM

97. Nah

 

He is brilliant on FP. And so is she. She was easily the best SoS in the last 30-40 years. Hands down.

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #97)

Tue May 19, 2015, 09:06 PM

123. Nah.

Our FP is a mess and she was part of it.

Sorry.

Killing people with drones just seems un American.

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #97)

Wed May 20, 2015, 09:24 AM

159. But neither of them are liberal on Foreign Policy are they? When people try to say she is

 

a liberal, they ignore her hawkish foreign policy. The Neocons love her Foreign Policy.

A
nd the thing is, these neocons have a point. Mrs. Clinton voted for the Iraq war; supported sending arms to Syrian rebels; likened Russia’s president, Vladimir V. Putin, to Adolf Hitler; wholeheartedly backs Israel; and stresses the importance of promoting democracy.

It’s easy to imagine Mrs. Clinton’s making room for the neocons in her administration. No one could charge her with being weak on national security with the likes of Robert Kagan on board.

from: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/06/opinion/sunday/are-neocons-getting-ready-to-ally-with-hillary-clinton.html?_r=0


You may like her hawkish, neocon-like foreign policy, but the point is that she can't be considered a progressive or populist. Her stands parallel The Third Way. Ok on social issues but very conservative on other issues, like the economy, foreign policy, and the NSA/CIA Security State.

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #72)

Tue May 19, 2015, 06:29 PM

82. .

 

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #69)

Tue May 19, 2015, 06:47 PM

90. That is not true.

 

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Response to hrmjustin (Reply #90)

Tue May 19, 2015, 11:17 PM

138. Your argument lacks substance. nm

 

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #138)

Tue May 19, 2015, 11:18 PM

140. So does yours but i am on mirt and see the knew posters daily and can tell you from

 

experience you are wrong.

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Response to hrmjustin (Reply #140)

Tue May 19, 2015, 11:23 PM

143. You mean you have access to their ISP's and can tell if they are sock puppets? nm

 

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #143)

Tue May 19, 2015, 11:24 PM

144. No that is the admins job.

 

My point is that the new posters are not mostly Hillary posters like you claimed.

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Response to hrmjustin (Reply #144)

Tue May 19, 2015, 11:28 PM

147. How can MIRT tell who a poster supports? nm

 

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #147)

Tue May 19, 2015, 11:29 PM

148. Because we are required to read their posts when they join.

 

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #69)

Tue May 19, 2015, 09:04 PM

122. Why do you think they are "paid shills"?

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Response to Agschmid (Reply #122)

Tue May 19, 2015, 11:17 PM

139. Heavens no. nm

 

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #69)

Wed May 20, 2015, 12:21 AM

157. Definitely your imagination.

 

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Response to Dem2 (Original post)

Tue May 19, 2015, 06:23 PM

74. Hillary's Koch funded DLC attacked liberals

and now she wants us to believe she is one?

No Sale

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Response to Mnpaul (Reply #74)

Tue May 19, 2015, 07:15 PM

98. Koch funded DLC?

 

The DLC was dissolved 4 years ago.

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #98)

Tue May 19, 2015, 07:24 PM

102. Yep

They became Obama's cabinet

do you care to address their disdain for liberals?

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Response to Mnpaul (Reply #102)

Tue May 19, 2015, 07:41 PM

106. Oh good lord

 

SMH.

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #106)

Tue May 19, 2015, 07:52 PM

113. Figures

I knew you wouldn't address that.

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #98)

Tue May 19, 2015, 07:28 PM

103. Yeah but it's still a boogieman for some

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Response to Dem2 (Original post)

Tue May 19, 2015, 06:23 PM

75. Yeah but 538 is all about numbers and realty.

Fox News tells me not to trust that witchcraft.

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Response to Dem2 (Original post)

Tue May 19, 2015, 06:28 PM

79. I know she is more liberal than Bill Clinton, and possibly more

liberal than Obama. People have been brainwashed by the right-wing media.

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Response to BreakfastClub (Reply #79)

Tue May 19, 2015, 06:31 PM

83. She isn't progressive when it comes to the economy or the MIC, or foreign policy, or

 

the NSA/CIA, etc. It didn't take the Right Wing to point our that she helped George Bush spread the lies of WMD in Iraq. Not very liberal.

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #83)

Tue May 19, 2015, 07:15 PM

99. Got any links for that?

 

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #99)

Tue May 19, 2015, 11:19 PM

141. Yes there are many. But Homey don't play your game. Do you have any links to prove

 

otherwise? She is a corporatist (Goldman-Sachs) and she likes invading Iraq.

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #141)

Tue May 19, 2015, 11:22 PM

142. Breitbart? Fox News? Townhall.com? The "Factor"??

 

Links like that?

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #142)

Tue May 19, 2015, 11:27 PM

146. If Breitbart said that HRC voted to invade Iraq, would it be untrue?

 

If Fox News said that HRC supported fracking would it be not true? Howz about the TPP?

I don't go to those sites and have seen lots of evidence that HRC favors Goldman-Sachs over the 99%. Show me otherwise.

I have seen evidence that HRC supports fracking. Do you have any evidence otherwise? How about her support for the TPP?

And it's easy to find evidence that she betrayed the Democratic Party and joined the Republicons to sell the lies about WMD in Iraq.

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #146)

Tue May 19, 2015, 11:37 PM

149. Yes, it would make the claims BS

 

For instance you should know very well that gas is cleaner than coal. And she is talking about fracking in other countries to reduce reliance on oil. And more importantly to break Russia's leverage on smaller countries for need of Russian oil. That Russian grip has very real negative consequences for very real people.

She is also very clear that those countries should regulate gas production to include environmental controls.

She is right about all of that. Spot on in fact. But Deadbart is not going to tell you any of that. That's the problem with using right wing sites as your source.

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #149)

Tue May 19, 2015, 11:42 PM

150. Fracking is destroying our water supplies. She supports fracking so oil companies can

 

make more profits. The same oil companies that will help her campaign reach $2 billion dollars.

"She is also very clear that those countries should regulate gas production to include environmental controls. " This is rhetoric. She says this but will do nothing to ensure it happens.

What do your sources say that her stand is today on fracking in the USofA?

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #150)

Tue May 19, 2015, 11:49 PM

152. Do you have solar panels - are you off the grid?

 

Do you walk everywhere you go? If not, you are helping to "destroy" our climate.

Let's live in reality land. Gas is cleaner than coal and oil. Her position is no different than Obama. Gas is a better alternative as we work to transition to more renewable energy tech.

But her "support" of fracking is not about this country. It's about countries that are involuntarily being screwed by Russia due to their dependence on Russian oil.

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #152)

Tue May 19, 2015, 11:54 PM

153. Fracking is win-win for big corporations. The oil companies can get more gas and they can

 

dump their toxic wastes (that would cost them a bundle to get rid of) into our aquifers. As our water supplies get poisoned, Leslie's and Coke can sell us water. Plus fracking is causing hundreds of earthquakes in Oklahoma, for example. But the oil companies will donate big to HRC's campaign and foundation.

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #153)

Tue May 19, 2015, 11:57 PM

154. You didn't answer the question

 

So I assume you use as much oil and gas as anyone else. Will your heat and hot water and lights and car and Internet and computer all magically work without an energy source if we elect Bernie?

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #154)

Wed May 20, 2015, 09:27 AM

160. You are trying to divert the subject. Fracking is bad for America. It may cost me more

 

for gas and oil, but we have to stop them from destroying our environment. They are destroying aquifers that will never recover. No problem for PepsiCo, they will gladly supply bottled water to Oklahoma for a nice profit.

There are two sides to this class war and those that push fracking are on the wrong side.

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Response to Dem2 (Original post)

Tue May 19, 2015, 06:39 PM

88. LOL! n/t

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Response to Dem2 (Original post)

Tue May 19, 2015, 06:50 PM

92. Though this has been posted the same wrong talking points of denial continues.

Thanks for posting this again, probably will not change the minds of many but the truth is good for the soul, hopefully it may sink in with some.

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Response to Dem2 (Original post)

Tue May 19, 2015, 06:57 PM

96. More like HRC wants to be a liberal but she has lived in the bubble for so long

that she has no idea what being a liberal means.

Supporting Gay Marriage is great, but not so good if the people who are getting married can't afford it.
Immigration reform is awesome. Not so good if we are paying wages that match 3rd world countries.
Criminal Justice Reform. Great, she can undo all the horrible shit her husband did.

The only people who think HRC and Obama are hard core liberals are not actually liberals themselves. Conservatives spend a lot of time telling me what "liberals" think, and usually it has nothing to do with what's going on in my liberal mind.

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Response to Dem2 (Original post)

Tue May 19, 2015, 07:16 PM

100. Yup. So is President Obama.

I don't know why this upsets anyone.

Welcome here Dem2.

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Response to Dem2 (Original post)

Tue May 19, 2015, 07:43 PM

107. So now Nate Silver's group, who has seldom been wrong about anything, is full of it because

the "liberal lions" on DU have declared Hillary a neo-corporatist Third Wayingest fascist corpo-Dem meanie in spite of the overwhelming evidence and numerous links in the piece that say the total opposite.

Totally consistent with this New DU. Right on.

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Response to Number23 (Reply #107)

Tue May 19, 2015, 09:07 PM

124. That was a mouthful.

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Response to Number23 (Reply #107)

Tue May 19, 2015, 09:32 PM

130. Let's remember exactly where Nate Silver was in 2012...

 

Because if memory serves me correctly he was almost dead on but now he must have an agenda, the big meanie.

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Response to giftedgirl77 (Reply #130)

Tue May 19, 2015, 11:06 PM

134. And also remember exactly WHO it was at the time screaming that Big Bad Nate had that agenda

I don't think you or I need a refresher, but it appears that some folks here have extremely short memories. A little article to jog some memories:

'Mitt Romney’s Electoral Problem and the War on Nate Silver'
http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/robert-schlesinger/2012/10/31/mitt-romneys-electoral-problem-and-the-war-on-nate-silver

But yeah, now he's "lying" and has an agenda! Forget the 57 different sources the author refers to in his OP complete with links to Hillary's voting record and comments. The folks at DU have repeatedly shown that only they know the really real truth! Just look at all those times Obama cut Social Security in complete vindication of the regulars in this forum who screamed he'd do just that!1one!

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Response to Dem2 (Original post)

Tue May 19, 2015, 07:44 PM

108. The liberals I know don't love big corporations and put business over workers

A liberal believes that the people come first, not businesses and especially big business.

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Response to AZ Progressive (Reply #108)

Tue May 19, 2015, 09:51 PM

132. yep

 

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Response to Dem2 (Original post)

Tue May 19, 2015, 07:47 PM

110. hoo boy

It seems to be 'toss a meme against the wall and see if it sticks' week.


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Response to Dem2 (Original post)

Tue May 19, 2015, 08:57 PM

120. hard core liberal

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Response to frylock (Reply #120)

Tue May 19, 2015, 09:07 PM

125. Source?

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Response to Agschmid (Reply #125)

Tue May 19, 2015, 09:55 PM

133. politicalcompass.org

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Response to frylock (Reply #133)

Tue May 19, 2015, 11:26 PM

145. Where only Kucinich and Nader are liberal....

 

And every other Democratic candidate is a right winger. Well, I guess if some website called "political compass" thinks so it must be true.

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #145)

Wed May 20, 2015, 11:47 AM

161. yeah, they just arbitrarily placed them there..

and those scores weren't based on policy positions, votes, or anything of the sort. How far over into the authoritarian/right quadrant did you score?

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Response to Dem2 (Original post)

Tue May 19, 2015, 09:11 PM

127. lmfao!!!

 

thanks. I needed a good giggle tonight.

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Response to Dem2 (Original post)

Tue May 19, 2015, 09:15 PM

129. Construct validity issue

 

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Response to Dem2 (Original post)

Tue May 19, 2015, 11:48 PM

151. I see a great career for you in stand up

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