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Happyhippychick

(8,379 posts)
Thu May 10, 2012, 12:31 PM May 2012

Now do you see why the dog on the roof is a big deal?

It shows how he has no regard for other lives. He didn't stop to think for one moment about how cruel it is to put a dog on the roof, he didn't stop to think for one minute that he was taunting a boy day in and day out until he out and out assaulted him.

These incidents are not mutually exclusive, they paint a picture of a fucking psychopath hiding behind a "Gee Willikers!" personality. Keep digging news media, keep digging.

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Now do you see why the dog on the roof is a big deal? (Original Post) Happyhippychick May 2012 OP
sociopathic behavior frequently shows up first with treatment of animals phantom power May 2012 #1
Absolutely - and he is a sociopath adigal May 2012 #18
Classic serial killer development. His actions in business were a form of murder, too. freshwest May 2012 #50
Remember young W liked to torture frogs Capn Sunshine May 2012 #59
I'm surprised that incident didn't turn off most rethugs. But I guess Auntie Bush May 2012 #66
The MSM could have cared less about that eridani May 2012 #81
his brain lacks the empathy module magical thyme May 2012 #2
Which would tend to endear him with the Right IDemo May 2012 #14
My thoughts exactly goclark May 2012 #93
and narcissism, arrogance and entitlement spooky3 May 2012 #3
"These incidents are not mutually exclusive, HCE SuiGeneris May 2012 #4
not only that barbtries May 2012 #5
I can see it in his eyes tridim May 2012 #6
Bully for you, Mr. Romney. Bully for you! longship May 2012 #7
There is no doubt a pattern of assholeness here uponit7771 May 2012 #8
I agree with every word of it except the use of psychopath. zeemike May 2012 #9
Sociopath Aerows May 2012 #10
I don't think he's either, and I'm disturbed by how the word sociopath is thrown around on DU. harmonicon May 2012 #16
I remember a discussion I heard on the radio of a doctor adigal May 2012 #21
Yep. laundry_queen May 2012 #54
The sociopath MBAs have ruined this country. n/t AnotherMcIntosh May 2012 #56
The main problem being laundry_queen May 2012 #65
QED: authority should always be questioned. AnotherMcIntosh May 2012 #68
Absolutely laundry_queen May 2012 #74
Sociopathy kurt_cagle May 2012 #92
Sociopathy diagnostics: habitual lying and lack of empathy CitizenK9 May 2012 #98
Interesting post. laundry_queen May 2012 #100
I agree with you. My boss was a sociopath, cared nothing for his employees, crunch60 May 2012 #73
Please explain the family dog on the roof of the car for a 12-hour drive + the relentless coalition_unwilling May 2012 #30
Here's the thing... harmonicon May 2012 #77
I'd simply point you to comments by fellow DUer DevonRex who coalition_unwilling May 2012 #88
Romney Aerows May 2012 #34
I'm not defending him. harmonicon May 2012 #78
It isn't giving him a pass Aerows May 2012 #102
"a made up religion" <--- HAHAHAHA!!! harmonicon May 2012 #104
Well you are right I am no doctor and cannot label someone zeemike May 2012 #46
I said the same to another poster re: the dog. harmonicon May 2012 #79
I think your point about what class division does to society is very interesting renate May 2012 #47
Agreed 100% Auntie Bush May 2012 #67
How could he empathize with employees of those companies? harmonicon May 2012 #80
+100% Myrina May 2012 #84
No. You need to look up the DMV definitions. DevonRex May 2012 #20
Yep Aerows May 2012 #35
That's what let him put the damned dog on the roof. DevonRex May 2012 #38
Probably Aerows May 2012 #41
You've got it backwards tcaudilllg May 2012 #85
That is what I was trying to say zeemike May 2012 #87
Perhaps kurt_cagle May 2012 #94
Excellent analysis. Hope to see more of your writing. Your final paragraph coalition_unwilling May 2012 #97
Thank you for saying so well what I've been trying to say this morning!!! hamsterjill May 2012 #11
Fits right in with his work at Bain. emulatorloo May 2012 #12
Yeah, a lot of.. girl gone mad May 2012 #26
EXACTLY!!!! Too many people don't understand how important BlancheSplanchnik May 2012 #13
They are going to try very hard to bury this, to blow it off as "30 years ago". MH1 May 2012 #15
join "Dogs Against Romney" on Facebook shireen May 2012 #17
Just like he enjoys firing people and closing down factories. DevonRex May 2012 #19
Exactly. He was obviously born without the "empathy" gene. It happens. Entitlement explains..... Tarheel_Dem May 2012 #23
Yep. DevonRex May 2012 #29
Remember, this is the man who would be entrusted to appt people to the bench. Tarheel_Dem May 2012 #31
That's what makes us human. DevonRex May 2012 #33
Ann Romney said that? extreme jealousy is common harbinger of abuse zazen May 2012 #89
Yes. DevonRex May 2012 #99
Very well stated! Tarheel_Dem May 2012 #22
Like his incredible proposition that bank foreclosures should just run their course aint_no_life_nowhere May 2012 #24
Spot on! and it seems all solid Repukes & Teabags share this personality profile! n/t hue May 2012 #25
Dog on the Roof and 5 young boys had to hold their pee grantcart May 2012 #27
Evil is as evil does Aerows May 2012 #37
This story (and the bullying incident) confirms my thought that he is a control freak and... Zookeeper May 2012 #76
Repukes ALL suffer from various personality disorders just1voice May 2012 #28
Mitt Romney: Sick Fuck Blue Owl May 2012 #32
there is something really off about that guy. Whisp May 2012 #36
Agreed Aerows May 2012 #39
I don't agree. Mitt didn't destroy a lot of brain cells with booze and coke eridani May 2012 #82
add the "i like to Fire People" to that list JI7 May 2012 #40
I always thought it was a big deal. Chorophyll May 2012 #42
THIS is why his interactions with people have always been so OFF. OMG OMG OMG DevonRex May 2012 #43
Precisely Aerows May 2012 #44
Maybe that's why it's been said that all the other rethug candidates hated him. Auntie Bush May 2012 #69
I'm convinced now that anyone DevonRex May 2012 #70
Sometimes I actually feel sorry for Ann Romney. n/t Auntie Bush May 2012 #71
Mitt Romney = Patrick Bateman Yavin4 May 2012 #45
Exactly!!! K&R n/t DeSwiss May 2012 #48
And this cruelty translates itself into firing people and moving jobs off shore. He did not care jwirr May 2012 #49
Beaver Cleaver outside, hifiguy May 2012 #51
Yes, plus I've seen some posts saying that they also did some things in their youth tanyev May 2012 #52
He's maybe even crazier than Bush. He's dangerous. nt Zorra May 2012 #53
thank you connecting the dots!!!!!! dembotoz May 2012 #55
Ditto!! how can we make the meme "sociopath" stick! This is important! nt nanabugg May 2012 #57
That, and his apology was conditional nytemare May 2012 #58
I liked the term "casually vicious" as applied to Rmoney CanonRay May 2012 #60
Our system as currently designed actually benefits sociopaths RufusTFirefly May 2012 #61
BINGO! fascisthunter May 2012 #63
he's a sociopath fascisthunter May 2012 #62
He seems to be some sort of sociopath to me. mwb970 May 2012 #64
There is a saying about character being revealed in how we treat DirkGently May 2012 #72
I wish I could rec your post and hope you will consider fashioning it into an OP. You've coalition_unwilling May 2012 #96
It was always a big deal to me. Lugnut May 2012 #75
Add to that onlyadream May 2012 #83
I've been saying this about the man since I heard the dog story combine it NotThisTime May 2012 #86
"a fucking psychopath hiding behind a "Gee Willikers!" personality" varelse May 2012 #90
The man's character is written in how he treats the MOST annabanana May 2012 #91
In all the interviews colorado_ufo May 2012 #95
My theory is that Rmoney is actually a Cylon. backscatter712 May 2012 #101
He is the living definition of cruel and unusual. lonestarnot May 2012 #103

Auntie Bush

(17,528 posts)
66. I'm surprised that incident didn't turn off most rethugs. But I guess
Thu May 10, 2012, 08:40 PM
May 2012

most RtThugs are basically mean and don't care about others misery and lacks empathy. I guess there are degrees of sociopathic behavior.

eridani

(51,907 posts)
81. The MSM could have cared less about that
Fri May 11, 2012, 06:04 AM
May 2012

The simple fact that they are treating it like an issue now is that the 1% thinks that Romney is hopeless. The reason why Bush was acceptable to them was that he was much better at faking sincerity than the Mittster.

 

magical thyme

(14,881 posts)
2. his brain lacks the empathy module
Thu May 10, 2012, 12:35 PM
May 2012

No concept or consideration whatsoever of how it feels to be in the shoes of the target for his "jokes," "pranks" or general decision making.

Ann is no better, simply because from what I've read she is the one person he totally adores. She could have protected Seamus, but apparently placed higher value on the luggage.

My parents were both like that. Sadly, the *only* way they get a clue is to experience bullying themselves. They lack imagination and empathy.

IDemo

(16,926 posts)
14. Which would tend to endear him with the Right
Thu May 10, 2012, 01:31 PM
May 2012

They attacked the very concept of empathy during the Sonia Sotomayor confirmation process.

goclark

(30,404 posts)
93. My thoughts exactly
Fri May 11, 2012, 10:57 AM
May 2012

They both will do anything to get what they think they deserve.
Both could care less about what others think of them ~ only think about what they think they will get at the end of the line.

Ms. goclark would have told my husband to "take the dog off of the car NOW!"

I would have said, "We don't need Elevators for our cars ~ that is stupid and we don't need to impress anyone like that ~ NOW Mitt, do you hear me !"

" Fool, let them see the taxes NOW!"

They seem to have the same personality disorder ~maybe they should let their children play a bigger part in the campaign.

Well that may not work, it could be a case of "like father, like sons."

HCE SuiGeneris

(14,994 posts)
4. "These incidents are not mutually exclusive,
Thu May 10, 2012, 12:38 PM
May 2012

they paint a picture of a fucking psychopath hiding behind a "Gee Willikers!" personality."

Brilliantly stated.

zeemike

(18,998 posts)
9. I agree with every word of it except the use of psychopath.
Thu May 10, 2012, 01:12 PM
May 2012

that term implies that he is just sick and he is not sick...he is a sociopath.
A Psychopath does not care if what he does is illegal and that he might get caught...a sociopath does and will carefully hide from responsibility of any crime he commits.

 

Aerows

(39,961 posts)
10. Sociopath
Thu May 10, 2012, 01:21 PM
May 2012

Describes him perfectly. He's given me an uneasy feeling from the minute he arrived on the political radar. Something about him is just ... off.

harmonicon

(12,008 posts)
16. I don't think he's either, and I'm disturbed by how the word sociopath is thrown around on DU.
Thu May 10, 2012, 01:41 PM
May 2012

It became popular on here some years ago to call loads of people sociopaths, but it's usually not true. I think a lot of the people who say these things haven't had close dealings with a sociopath. It's completely possible to be a stuck-up, selfish jerk without being a sociopath.

I do not doubt that Romney truly does love his wife and children - a sociopath wouldn't. I don't doubt that he has genuine friends - a sociopath wouldn't.

That said, I also have zero doubt that from the way he's been raised and the professional and political circles he's run in his entire life that he is completely an utterly out of touch with what 90+ percentage of Americans would consider to be normal behaviour. This is a guy who for all intents and purposes lives in a different world than you or I. Ascribing this to a mental or personality defect does a disservice to the exposition of the truth about what the horrors of class divisions bring into our society.

 

adigal

(7,581 posts)
21. I remember a discussion I heard on the radio of a doctor
Thu May 10, 2012, 02:14 PM
May 2012

who studied sociopaths. He said that if he couldn't get into the prisons to study them, the next best place would have been Wall St. He claimed that up to 10% of those successful on Wall ST are sociopaths. They have kids and wives they claim to love. They have friends. What they don't have is any empathy for others.

So what would you call it? Just a selfish jerk? I think it is more than that.

laundry_queen

(8,646 posts)
54. Yep.
Thu May 10, 2012, 05:41 PM
May 2012

People don't understand that part of being a sociopath is BLENDING IN to look like everyone else that has family and friends etc. They are very good at putting on a veneer of 'being normal' but patterns of behavior often show they aren't. Only stupid sociopaths are loners/don't have friends/ etc. The 'smarter' ones are very good at pretending to be normal.

I'm in business school and one thing they actually DO mention is how to deal with sociopaths because it's pretty prevalent amongst managers.

laundry_queen

(8,646 posts)
65. The main problem being
Thu May 10, 2012, 07:58 PM
May 2012

it doesn't take a whole lot of sociopaths to get the whole herd to follow ... re: Milgram's experiment.

kurt_cagle

(534 posts)
92. Sociopathy
Fri May 11, 2012, 10:43 AM
May 2012

One of the more intriguing traits of sociopaths is that they are frequently attracted to power, not because they see it as a vehicle for changing the system or because they believe it is an obligation that they should undertake, but because they get great pleasure in having power over others. Yet once that's achieved, sociopaths frequently tend to lose interest in the day to day application of that power - they get bored with the responsibilities.

I've had reservations about Romney and potential sociopathy for a while. He actually fits the profile rather disturbingly well. Sociopaths re not necessarily bad people, but they have an inability to empathize. It's very difficult for them to see the world from beyond their own perspective. As a consequence they tend not to see (or be bothered by) the consequences of their actions on others. This can occasionally be a good thing in a leader - they can sometimes make hard choices without the emotional anguish others may feel for those that will be affected by their actions, which means that they can often be ruthless, but while this may in fact be a good trait (arguably) for a financial firm, it's not a good one for a leader of a government - the ends justify the means type of thinking tends to prevail.

Of the presidents we've had, Nixon was probably the closest to being a sociopathic personality (though I don't believe he was clinically sociopathic), and it's noteworthy that several of the people that he brought in as cabinet and advisors definitely fell into that camp - Kissinger being the most notable. Neither of the Bush's were - W. was an alcoholic and drug addict who was pretty much thrust into the roles he played even though he had no real competence there. HW was probably closer, but he didn't have the lack of follow-through characteristics. Clinton had abandonment issues (and to be honest, so does Obama) but neither has a sociopathic personality. Of the other candidates, Palin has strong attention seeking and narcissistic behaviors, but I think she actually has a modicum of empathy. Bachmann was just disconnected from reality. Gingrich comes close to sociopathy - still on the fence about whether he is or not - if he is, he's definitely no longer alpha wolf. Ron Paul is quite principled, and has been willing to buck the crowd much of his life, which is not a trait I'd associate with a sociopath. He just has an unworkably minimalistic view of government in the present day and age, though that may change.

Santorum is unquestionably one, one of the reasons that I think he and Romney do not get along. Sociopaths are solitary hunters, and its always interesting watching two sociopaths that are forced into working together. Sometimes, when it's mutually beneficial, they will form temporary alliances, but usually they get along as well as two tomcats squaring off over a choice trash can. Watching Santorum and Romney squaring off, there was no question that they recognized in one another that same mindset. The difference is that Santorum is fairly open about his lack of empathy; his courting of extremist elements revealed that he'd be just as happy in an SS uniform in a different era. Romney is fronting financials, so he has to be more circumspect. Still, they are very much kindred spirits.

 

CitizenK9

(22 posts)
98. Sociopathy diagnostics: habitual lying and lack of empathy
Fri May 11, 2012, 11:49 AM
May 2012

The two most defining characteristics of the psychopath or sociopath are guilt-free lying and a profound lack of empathy for other people. Mitt Romney has both of these characteristics. The use of these terms is not to call names but to predict future behavior.

If you want to read more:

Is Your Boss a Psychopath?
Odds are you've run across one of these characters in your career. They're glib, charming, manipulative, deceitful, ruthless -- and very, very destructive. And there may be lots of them in America's corner offices.
by Alan Deutschman | July 1, 2005
http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/96/open_boss.html
(Shows how modern capitalism thrives on sociopathic leadership.)

A close analysis of Romney’s lying:

Milt Romney: Professional Liar
April 23, 2012
http://consortiumnews.com/2012/04/23/mitt-romney-professional-liar/

Last week, Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney claimed his dad had been attacked by President Obama, who “likes to attack fellow Americans.” Yet, Romney’s verbal assault on Obama was itself a multi-layered fabrication that revealed Romney consummate skill as a professional liar, writes Robert Parry.

laundry_queen

(8,646 posts)
100. Interesting post.
Fri May 11, 2012, 02:13 PM
May 2012

I agree with most things you have said, especially the first paragraph. I'd take issue with GWB not being a sociopath - I think he definitely is one - I have no doubt he lacks a conscience and his patterns of behavior go back to adolescence (a must to be diagnosed with AsPD). Sociopaths ('dumb' ones) often turn to substance abuse because it fills the void they feel from not being concerned with other people's feelings/lives. 'Smarter' sociopaths, you are correct, love power because it enables them to manipulate everyone around them.

Robert Hare, an expert on psychopaths (he uses the term sociopath interchangeably with psychopath), says that most of them get a kick out of causing turmoil and just watching it play out. The power/fortune/fame is just a tool that they use.

I agree Palin is more narcissistic than anything. I DO think Gingrich is also a sociopath. He has the same easy way of blurting out complete lies as totally believeable statements, without flinching or stuttering (or pausing to think), as my ex-husband has (who checks off every single item on the DSM-IV list for AsPD) - in addition to all the other things. That's one thing that weirds me out about Romney - he stutters an awful lot - I wonder if it's because he's been coached too much and wants this so bad he's petrified of making a mistake, or if deep down he's worried soon he'll be found out for what he really is. Most sociopaths don't like to be 'found out' because it wrecks their games. People don't want to play the 'life' game with sociopaths. It's part of the reason why the good ones get so adept at appearing to be normal/caring people.

I disagree about Santorum. I think he's just plain brainwashed by religion, as Michelle Bachman is. I honestly think the disdain Santorum has for Romney has to do with religion and Romney's perceived 'moderate' status.

Anyhow, thanks for the intersting conversation.

 

crunch60

(1,412 posts)
73. I agree with you. My boss was a sociopath, cared nothing for his employees,
Thu May 10, 2012, 11:59 PM
May 2012

he was ruthless, and used anyone and everyone that served a purpose for him.
Lies and deception came easy. He finally ran out of his "juice", tripped up big time, and the company got rid of him, but it was a long time coming.

 

coalition_unwilling

(14,180 posts)
30. Please explain the family dog on the roof of the car for a 12-hour drive + the relentless
Thu May 10, 2012, 03:06 PM
May 2012

harassment of weaker classmates + the cruelty toward sight-diminished teacher.

Romney calls them just 'hijinks'.

BUT HAS NOT DEMONSTRATED ONE SHRED OF REMORSE FOR ANY OF IT!!! That and the inability to feel any genuine empathy are the hallmark of a sociopath (or, technically put, one who manifests anti-social personality disorder)

The term 'sociopath' is not being used loosely now with regard to Willard.

harmonicon

(12,008 posts)
77. Here's the thing...
Fri May 11, 2012, 05:43 AM
May 2012

A sociopath understands what social norms are, but just doesn't give a shit. A sociopath understands that others have feelings, but can't actually empathize with those feelings, yet can exploit them to their advantage.

The thing with his dog? The dude's fucked up and out of touch and doesn't give a shit about dogs. If Romney were a sociopath, he wouldn't have told that story. He's just so out of touch that it never even occurred to him that people would be disturbed by that story. We only know about it through him. That is not how a sociopath operates.

Being a bully and being a dick to teachers? He was a stuck-up spoiled rich kid - 'nuff said. There were plenty of rich brats in my high school in Michigan, which was just a well enough off public school. I think there were probably many more in his super swanky private school, and it seems he was one of them. I doubt that he was in the minority. We only have this new story about his teenage behaviour because the other people who helped him do this shit corroborate the story. Is every single one of them a sociopath as well?

 

coalition_unwilling

(14,180 posts)
88. I'd simply point you to comments by fellow DUer DevonRex who
Fri May 11, 2012, 09:41 AM
May 2012

lays out the case for Romney's sociopathy far more economically and devastatingly than I ever could (see the last sentence):

"Let me add that evil is not irrational necessarily. He thinks and plans. He [the sociopath] knows right from wrong perfectly well. There are no voices in his head telling him to do the wrong thing. He simply does not care and he knows he does not care. He also knows he should care.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=673813

 

Aerows

(39,961 posts)
34. Romney
Thu May 10, 2012, 04:25 PM
May 2012

and his behavior deeply disturbs me, and when I get that vibe about people, I stay away. Something about him completely lacks empathy, which is sociopathic behavior. Defend him if you want to do so, but he has some serious character defects, in my view.

harmonicon

(12,008 posts)
78. I'm not defending him.
Fri May 11, 2012, 05:45 AM
May 2012

Calling him a sociopath is giving him a pass in a way. What I think is more troubling is to consider that he's not yet this is how he's lived his life. If we assume that, the facts of his life are more troubling.

 

Aerows

(39,961 posts)
102. It isn't giving him a pass
Sat May 12, 2012, 01:06 PM
May 2012

It is defining his way of life. All of his life he has had no empathy for anyone that wasn't of his status, and probably then only because it could benefit Mitt Romney.

I deeply, deeply dislike him and his religion. I don't want Mormonism, a made up religion like Scientology and just as toxic, for the United States. I'll admit that openly. It is based upon money, and I think that is the root of all evil.

harmonicon

(12,008 posts)
104. "a made up religion" <--- HAHAHAHA!!!
Sat May 12, 2012, 01:54 PM
May 2012

Last edited Sat May 12, 2012, 04:28 PM - Edit history (1)

Every religion is made up!! They're all completely ridiculous. He was born into it. I don't fault his religion more than I anyone else's, especially if they were born into it and indoctrinated at a young age. Still, some adults turn to religion for comfort. I'm not ashamed to say that I have a friend who's a Scientologist. He's a good guy, but we don't talk about religion, same as with my Christian, Buddhist, and Muslim friends. If you don't think every religion isn't about money/power, you're not looking close enough.

Regardless... I don't care about the cult of personality around political candidates. His personality isn't what bothers me. His policies are what bother me.

zeemike

(18,998 posts)
46. Well you are right I am no doctor and cannot label someone
Thu May 10, 2012, 05:15 PM
May 2012

But I have known many people like him and people far worse.
But what he does have in common with them is lack of empathy for others and being married does not prove anything....with such people marriage is just getting something from someone...and that goes for the dog too...the dog is just another possession to be obtained...and disposed of when it is no longer necessary.
And I don't think it comes because of something physically wrong with the brain....I think it is imprinted in early childhood...a child not given love and affection will turn out to be an adult that feels the same way...thus the reason why so many wealthy people seem to us to have this disorder....if you are raised in a cold environment where possessions are the only thing that matters you are likely to turn out just like that.
But that is just my opinion....I don't know

harmonicon

(12,008 posts)
79. I said the same to another poster re: the dog.
Fri May 11, 2012, 05:49 AM
May 2012

A sociopath knows and understands social mores to an extent, yet doesn't care and often uses that knowledge to exploit others. If Romney were a sociopath, he wouldn't have told that story about the dog. He's just an out of touch rich asshole. I would much rather nail him on that.

renate

(13,776 posts)
47. I think your point about what class division does to society is very interesting
Thu May 10, 2012, 05:17 PM
May 2012

That's worth talking about, for sure.

None of us have spent the hours with Romney that it would take to actually diagnose him as being sociopathic... but it is kind of interesting that he made his millions and millions by being absolutely cold-hearted about the employees of the companies that Bain restructured. He couldn't have done that job if he'd had a normal human capacity for empathy, I really don't think he could have.

harmonicon

(12,008 posts)
80. How could he empathize with employees of those companies?
Fri May 11, 2012, 05:53 AM
May 2012

He was brought up as the super-rich son of a CEO and governor. Without blinking an eye, the guy tells people that he made it through times of unemployment by living off of stock dividends and interest from funds. Of course he can't empathize with working people - he literally has no idea how you and I and 99.8% of Americans live. He has never experienced it and has likely never been close to someone who's experienced it.

 

Aerows

(39,961 posts)
35. Yep
Thu May 10, 2012, 04:26 PM
May 2012

That's what bugs me about him. He completely lacks empathy. It more than bugs me, it makes me afraid of him ever being near the White House.

DevonRex

(22,541 posts)
38. That's what let him put the damned dog on the roof.
Thu May 10, 2012, 04:30 PM
May 2012

And why the family let him. Half are scared of him and the other half probably inherited the same gene he has.

 

Aerows

(39,961 posts)
41. Probably
Thu May 10, 2012, 04:34 PM
May 2012

All I know is that he needs to stay the hell away from having leadership of the entire world by being in the White House. He's cruel, and has no feelings. His entire history is evidence of that fact.

 

tcaudilllg

(1,553 posts)
85. You've got it backwards
Fri May 11, 2012, 08:46 AM
May 2012

Psychopaths are the sick ones because they favor the spread of indifference (or worse, malevolence)... it's the sociopaths who merely don't care. A sociopath is merely selfish... a psychopath wants to see OTHERS behave selfishly.

All psychopaths are sociopaths, not all sociopaths are psychopaths.

Romney is clearly a psychopath. But how about that: all the fuss about Gingrich and Santorum, when the genuine threat to democracy was wrapping up nominations across the country?

Psychopathy = big 'C' creativity + selfishness (as distinguished from self-interest). Mitt has that in spades.

zeemike

(18,998 posts)
87. That is what I was trying to say
Fri May 11, 2012, 09:05 AM
May 2012

But you said it better
"All psychopaths are sociopaths, not all sociopaths are psychopaths. "
But I see him as a sociopath...I think the true psychopath is far less dangerous to the whole country because they usually act out and wind up in jail....Like Ted Bundy....it is the sociopath that is creative and selfish and greedy.

kurt_cagle

(534 posts)
94. Perhaps
Fri May 11, 2012, 11:11 AM
May 2012

I'd concede sociopathy for Romney, but not psychopathy. Psychopathy usually involves a consistent manifestation of violence. A sociopath would have no trouble ordering others to hurt or even kill, but would not take pleasure in the act (they wouldn't be bothered with it either - it is simply a means towards an end). A psychopath, on the other hand, inflicts violence because it activates pleasure centers in their brain. They enjoy killing.

Psychopathy is relatively common. Sociopathic psychopathy is very rare. These are the quiet serial killers, people who are natural sociopaths but have learned to take pleasure in the hunt, and in the eluding of authorities. They are a staple of TV and movie dramas, because the combination of detective and sociopathic killer often makes for intricate, elaborate chess games with people as the pawns, but in reality they make up a very small proportion of all crime (or the population). I think it unlikely that Romney is one, though I have no trouble seeing him hire hitmen to take someone out.

I think a fair question to ask is whether Obama is a sociopath. He is clearly an introvert, intelligent and ambitious. He has charisma. However, he has demonstrated a fairly high degree of empathy, and there have been several times where his natural impulse towards empathy has had to be tempered with the realities of his office. He wants to make a difference. So, no, I don't think Obama is, but it points back to Romney's failings.

I have not yet seen anything in Romney's stance that indicates that he wants to make a difference - his platform is the same boilerplate rhetoric the Republicans have been using for years. At the same time, the few times that Romney has interacted in public in unscripted situations those have gone badly. You feel like he knows that he should be responding to others, but he really doesn't understand how and is impatient with having to go through the motions. In his mind, he is now President, and Obama is simply a pretender who can be disposed of down the road.

 

coalition_unwilling

(14,180 posts)
97. Excellent analysis. Hope to see more of your writing. Your final paragraph
Fri May 11, 2012, 11:44 AM
May 2012

and the final two sentences within are simply devastating, imo.

hamsterjill

(15,214 posts)
11. Thank you for saying so well what I've been trying to say this morning!!!
Thu May 10, 2012, 01:25 PM
May 2012

Well said!!! And very, very pertinent!!!!!

girl gone mad

(20,634 posts)
26. Yeah, a lot of..
Thu May 10, 2012, 02:43 PM
May 2012

private equity and hedge fund people act like sociopaths. And they are rewarded handsomely for it.

BlancheSplanchnik

(20,219 posts)
13. EXACTLY!!!! Too many people don't understand how important
Thu May 10, 2012, 01:29 PM
May 2012

past behavior is. (ha, I should know, I've made plenty of mistakes......but that's a different story)

One thing for sure though, I never made one of my "mistakes" while knowing that someone had abused a pet, other animals or kids in the past.

MH1

(17,537 posts)
15. They are going to try very hard to bury this, to blow it off as "30 years ago".
Thu May 10, 2012, 01:35 PM
May 2012

We shouldn't let them. The incident, and his response to it being raised now, speaks volumes about the lowness of his character, and indeed an apparent complete lack of conscience that would be dangerous in a President.

Tarheel_Dem

(31,207 posts)
23. Exactly. He was obviously born without the "empathy" gene. It happens. Entitlement explains.....
Thu May 10, 2012, 02:19 PM
May 2012

this guy's entire life.

DevonRex

(22,541 posts)
29. Yep.
Thu May 10, 2012, 02:59 PM
May 2012

He's one of those who feels very shallowly for his family, and very oddly at that. Has jealousy instead of trust. Bundy was like that. Remember Ann Romney talked about how jealous he was in the beginning of their relationship? But like a good little girl she put up with it. And I bet half his kids have that lack of empathy, too. And the other half think it's normal. Or are scared.

Tarheel_Dem

(31,207 posts)
31. Remember, this is the man who would be entrusted to appt people to the bench.
Thu May 10, 2012, 03:09 PM
May 2012

I remember President Obama being lambasted for his use of the word "empathetic" when referring to Justice Sotomayor. Like the president, I'd always thought of empathy as a virtue, but Mitt's crowd obviously thought of it as some fatal flaw. That's what we're up against.

DevonRex

(22,541 posts)
33. That's what makes us human.
Thu May 10, 2012, 04:13 PM
May 2012

Without it we'd all be predators just looking out for our next meal or next win or next big deal. Like Romney. OMG. This has really got to get out there and drummed into people's heads. He really and truly does not give one good god damn about anybody but himself.

zazen

(2,978 posts)
89. Ann Romney said that? extreme jealousy is common harbinger of abuse
Fri May 11, 2012, 10:06 AM
May 2012

I didn't know she had said that.

When warning people about early warning signs that someone might be an abuser, unusual jealousy and possessiveness is always at the top of the list. So is not showing sincere remorse and having a habit of blaming others for one's misfortunes.




DevonRex

(22,541 posts)
99. Yes.
Fri May 11, 2012, 12:24 PM
May 2012

And a small number of abusers are psychopaths. Romney is in that category, with his lack of empathy for other people.

aint_no_life_nowhere

(21,925 posts)
24. Like his incredible proposition that bank foreclosures should just run their course
Thu May 10, 2012, 02:26 PM
May 2012

thinking absolutely nothing about the homeowners being left on the street and only about the market and bank profits. No empathy. No conscience.

grantcart

(53,061 posts)
27. Dog on the Roof and 5 young boys had to hold their pee
Thu May 10, 2012, 02:54 PM
May 2012

Remember the telling of the whole story.

Its a 12 hour ride and the father predetermines when 5 young boys are going to have to empty their bladders.

The son who tells the story even laughs saying that "Only mom could make him stop".

So if a 6 year old in the back seat said "Dad I really really have to go" the Mitt Romney would make him suffer another 45 minutes because he predetermined when and where nature was going to make these boys uncomfortable.

Now think about that. Unlike Seamus these are HIS sons. He knows that boys can't control when they have to go past a certain time. What would any other Dad do. "When are we going to get there? Hell if I know, I got 5 boys and only God knows how many stops I have to make."

That is what normal Mitt would have done.
 

Aerows

(39,961 posts)
37. Evil is as evil does
Thu May 10, 2012, 04:30 PM
May 2012

I don't trust the man based upon his actions. I have some objections about President Obama, but I support him. I think fundamentally, he is a good person. Romney, I think, fundamentally is an evil person. He certainly hasn't done anything to disprove that assumption with his actions.

He strikes me as a person that would do anything for power, money and glory, and he's the last thing we need leading our nation. He's cruel. His entire history demonstrates that fact.

Zookeeper

(6,536 posts)
76. This story (and the bullying incident) confirms my thought that he is a control freak and...
Fri May 11, 2012, 03:06 AM
May 2012

extremely disturbed by anything that isn't what he thinks it *should* be. It also sounds like he doesn't know how to cope with events that are unplanned.

I'm remembering a clip of him visiting a restaurant owner who started to tell him that business wasn't good and he just did his weird chuckle and stayed on script.

 

just1voice

(1,362 posts)
28. Repukes ALL suffer from various personality disorders
Thu May 10, 2012, 02:55 PM
May 2012

The diagnostic criteria fits repukes perfectly:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personality_disorder#General_diagnostic_criteria_2

---...Those diagnosed with a personality disorder may experience difficulties in cognition, emotiveness, interpersonal functioning or control of impulses. In general, personality disorders are diagnosed in 40-60 percent of psychiatric patients, which is the most frequent of all psychiatric diagnoses.[4]

These behavioral patterns in personality disorders are typically associated with substantial disturbances in some behavioral tendencies of an individual, usually involving several areas of the personality, and are nearly always associated with considerable personal and social disruption. Additionally, personality disorders are inflexible and pervasive across many situations, due in large part to the fact that such behavior may be ego-syntonic (i.e. the patterns are consistent with the ego integrity of the individual) and are, therefore, perceived to be appropriate by that individual. This behavior can result in maladaptive coping skills, which may lead to personal problems that induce extreme anxiety, distress or depression.[5] The onset of these patterns of behavior can typically be traced back to early adolescence and the beginning of adulthood and, in some instances, childhood.[1]---

 

Whisp

(24,096 posts)
36. there is something really off about that guy.
Thu May 10, 2012, 04:29 PM
May 2012

REALLY OFF. His heart must have been ripped out of him or something - he's a fucking robotic and even dumber than the King of Dumb of the Chimperor Reign.

 

Aerows

(39,961 posts)
39. Agreed
Thu May 10, 2012, 04:32 PM
May 2012

Something about him just isn't right. Everyone senses it, even Republicans that have a brain in their head. He's cruel, emotionless and just plain... off.

eridani

(51,907 posts)
82. I don't agree. Mitt didn't destroy a lot of brain cells with booze and coke
Fri May 11, 2012, 06:14 AM
May 2012

The big difference is that Bush could fake "normal" and Romney can't.

JI7

(89,174 posts)
40. add the "i like to Fire People" to that list
Thu May 10, 2012, 04:32 PM
May 2012

i have said that even in cases where people deserve to be fired, it's not something most decent people would enjoy doing.

Chorophyll

(5,179 posts)
42. I always thought it was a big deal.
Thu May 10, 2012, 04:34 PM
May 2012

Like all of the prominent members of the GOP, Mittens has no regard for life.

In fact, "pro-life" is the most ridiculous descriptor anyone ever applied to any Republican.

DevonRex

(22,541 posts)
43. THIS is why his interactions with people have always been so OFF. OMG OMG OMG
Thu May 10, 2012, 04:41 PM
May 2012

He has no normal emotions. None. He has to fake every damned one of them. Except jealousy and covetousness and greed. Those are NORMAL for him. Everything that has to do with WANT is what is normal for him. Nothing to do with GIVE or LOVE or CARE.

Auntie Bush

(17,528 posts)
69. Maybe that's why it's been said that all the other rethug candidates hated him.
Thu May 10, 2012, 09:11 PM
May 2012

The man had no friends on the campaign trail...or anywhere else I assume.

DevonRex

(22,541 posts)
70. I'm convinced now that anyone
Thu May 10, 2012, 09:24 PM
May 2012

who's been in contact with him has seen that there is something missing in his eyes. I just can't forget Ann talking about how jealous he was at first and that she was put off by it. UNTIL he explained to her that it was because he just loved her SO MUCH, blah blah blah.

It was all about possession, not love. About owning. That woman has been living with that all these years, under that man's thumb and thinks it's normal, married life. And that church has taught her that her husband's will is law.

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
49. And this cruelty translates itself into firing people and moving jobs off shore. He did not care
Thu May 10, 2012, 05:22 PM
May 2012

what the consequences were to others when he was making money.

tanyev

(42,360 posts)
52. Yes, plus I've seen some posts saying that they also did some things in their youth
Thu May 10, 2012, 05:36 PM
May 2012

they're not proud of and you can't judge someone only on the basis of one incident in their youth, etc., etc., etc, but the dog on the roof of the car happened when he was all grown up.

dembotoz

(16,739 posts)
55. thank you connecting the dots!!!!!!
Thu May 10, 2012, 06:14 PM
May 2012

have felt for some time that rmoney was a sociapath

happy to find out i am not the only one who feels this way.

nytemare

(10,888 posts)
58. That, and his apology was conditional
Thu May 10, 2012, 06:37 PM
May 2012

It wasn't a "I really screwed up and was a mean asshole in school. I truly apologize to anyone I hurt". It was an "if anyone was hurt or offended I obviously apologize". He was half giggling, and not earnest in any way with his "apology".

First of all, the guy he did that to is dead. He said he didn't remember the incident, but then went into detail that he didn't know the guy was gay. So, he obviously knows who they are talking about. Why try to make a defense for a motive if you don't remember doing something? "I don't remember leading other students in an attack on a guy to hold him down and chop off his hair, but, if I did that, it certainly wasn't because I thought he was gay. I must have attacked him for some other reason."

RufusTFirefly

(8,812 posts)
61. Our system as currently designed actually benefits sociopaths
Thu May 10, 2012, 07:09 PM
May 2012

Remember the Enron traders who were cheating people out of their retirement and laughing about it?

There are dozens of other equally notorious examples.

If you have no moral, emotional, or empathetic braking mechanism, you will go far in our free-market economy.

Having a conscience is a serious drawback.

Is it any wonder that so many of our business leaders seem to share this defect?

 

fascisthunter

(29,381 posts)
63. BINGO!
Thu May 10, 2012, 07:11 PM
May 2012

...and it is why this country is in a world of hurt. Time to put the lid on these sociopaths/psychopaths. There is one thing they fear more than anything else, and it the truth of what they truly are and that people band together against them.

mwb970

(11,299 posts)
64. He seems to be some sort of sociopath to me.
Thu May 10, 2012, 07:23 PM
May 2012

At first I thought he was just an out of touch rich guy. But now it is becoming increasingly clear that this is one horrible human being. He lacks humanity. I would prefer that my president be human, thank you.

DirkGently

(12,151 posts)
72. There is a saying about character being revealed in how we treat
Thu May 10, 2012, 11:39 PM
May 2012

those from whom we have the least to gain and the least to fear.

We know what Romney will say or do when political victory is the goal -- anything. From pro-choice to "fertilized eggs are people," if you've got something he wants, he'll follow you anywhere, smiling and ingratiating. But when he can't be threatened or punished, he inflicts pain on those in no position to fight back. Thinks it's his right. Finds it amusing.

There's something, too, about our political philosophies. The Ryans and Romneys of the world argue we should gauge the quality of our country by how well we treat the rich and powerful, not by how we treat the disenfranchised, poor, and powerless. Better that 200 millionaires don't pay a penny more in taxes than a million children have an education. If dogs don't to be strapped to roofs with their stomachs imploding, they should go to Harvard Business school, make some contacts.

There's something insidious and cold in this man's gaze. He's worse than the feckless boob he appears.
 

coalition_unwilling

(14,180 posts)
96. I wish I could rec your post and hope you will consider fashioning it into an OP. You've
Fri May 11, 2012, 11:35 AM
May 2012

nailed it in a few short paragraphs.

Lugnut

(9,791 posts)
75. It was always a big deal to me.
Fri May 11, 2012, 01:23 AM
May 2012

Someone who loves animals would never dream of doing such a horrible thing to a helpless animal. If Ann didn't object at the time she's as sick as Willard.

NotThisTime

(3,657 posts)
86. I've been saying this about the man since I heard the dog story combine it
Fri May 11, 2012, 09:03 AM
May 2012

with statements he "likes to fire people" and it paints a portrait of someone who doesn't give a damn about others.... It's not a huge leap from a dog to a human or vice versa.

varelse

(4,062 posts)
90. "a fucking psychopath hiding behind a "Gee Willikers!" personality"
Fri May 11, 2012, 10:11 AM
May 2012

That is the best description of Romney I have seen to date.

colorado_ufo

(5,717 posts)
95. In all the interviews
Fri May 11, 2012, 11:15 AM
May 2012

did ANYONE ask Romney how he thought the young man felt, who was pinned down and had his hair cut?

I would be amazed if he could even cough up an answer, because he is INCAPABLE, again, INCAPABLE, of empathy, and that makes him dangerous to anyone who is not useful to him.

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