What do you think of the cover of next issue of Time? **Image may offend**

[cynatnite]

[IMG][/IMG]

[msanthrope]

1. That's one big three-year old. nt

[leveymg]

9. Or, he's a short 23 year-old.

Waiting for the sex police to arrive for my spanking.

[Liberal_in_LA]

108. lol. looks to be about 5

[Octafish]

145. I thought it was the only good actor still alive on Game of Thrones.

That Ootar guy or whatever went on to become Conan.

[Gidney N Cloyd]

19. "Milk does a body good."

[surrealAmerican]

141. ... either that or ...

... it's a tiny mom.

[Cave_Johnson]

176. He's a bigun...

3 years and 743 days...

[truebrit71]

2. What do I think? I think that Sachin Tandulkar is a great batsman, but THE cricket god?

...I hardly think so....

Oh, and that's one lucky kid...

[NightWatcher]

3. Is that kid winking?

[seabeyond]

6. ya... that would be two eyes wide open. and then people wonder why there is an issue

with women breast feeding in public. men have just got to act sophomoric and reduce it to a wink.

good job, and so quickly on this thread.

now, when you talk about the pearl clutchers, you might want to consider the perverts, too.

on edit... i take note post 2 had to sexualize breast feeding, too.

[NightWatcher]

13. Chill out (joking). My wife's practicing attachment patenting

to some extent.

If you can't chuckle every once in a while, geez.

[Lost-in-FL]

14. The "overreacting much" comment in 1, 2...

Yes, cause you are overreacting

at least that's what I was told when I commented on someone being sexist in another thread.

[seabeyond]

21. sheeeit, even before you got it posted. its a joke.... lighten up francis. nt

[CTyankee]

98. I thinkyou are on to something. I have often wondered if some men DO feel as if they have to

sexualize this because it is the only way they can deal with it. Perhaps it is better with younger, progressive men who are caring partners of women through childbirth and breastfeeding (to the extent that they CAN be!). I remember my son in law was so into it with my daughter's three pregnancies that at the birth of their third child I just casually asked him if were lactating yet...he got the biggest kick out of it. We had a good laugh because we all knew he was a hugely supportive dad (and came close to having to assist in delivering the second one!).

[seabeyond]

100. i have seen things change. when i was growing up as a kid i would run up on moms breastfeeding and

watch. it was nothing. then when i was done watching remember to ask them what i wanted. women werent exposed, and they werent hiding. it was all natural and no one gave it a mind. clear into the 80's i remember that attitude.

i figure it is as much the sexualization and unwillingness to share with the nature of the breast, as it is the pearl clutcher. and when men come in here purposely to even.... EVEN sexualize the breast with breastfeeding i would think this would be one point all of us women would agree that enough is just e-fuckin-nough.

[CTyankee]

106. Don't let those sad creatures get you down.

Just keep giving them hell. I wonder why anybody thinks doing this is "cool." I can't imagine anything less cool. Those of us who know and love the truly cool men, like my husband and my s.i.l. can truly sit back and laugh.

[seabeyond]

110. i have been telling myself this since last night

"Those of us who know and love the truly cool men,"



i needed that.

[CTyankee]

114. Aww, it's a variant of the old saying "living well is the best revenge."

I raised a magnificent son, too, but he is childless (not by choice). I feel surrounded by loving, amazing men and boys.

Here's the great thing: these guys are really happy! Being a strong, progressive feminist is maybe one of the best kept secrets. They know they have great lives with the women in those lives, whether they be moms, wives, friends or daughters. Being feminists, these guys attract the best women, IMO (pats self on back, ha).

[seabeyond]

116. sigh... i think

you are right on. i have watched oldest son, now 17 and how and what he looks for in a girl. she has to have lots.... lol. he doesnt settle. i feel good about him. my youngest, is still too young, but i think you are right.

[CTyankee]

117. Hey, that's great!

[seabeyond]

4. i didnt scroll down. looking at the picture, i didnt know the kid was on a chair....

not good

[Quantess]

5. At that age, isn't that child abuse?

No adult should have childhood memories of breast feeding.

[Odin2005]

17. In many hunter-gatherer cultures kids breastfeed till they are 4 or 5.

[bhikkhu]

142. Yes, and its a natural form of birth control as well

http://www.plannedparenthood.org/health-topics/birth-control/breastfeeding-4219.htm

...which traditionally allows mothers in low-technology cultures (ie - those without other options) some time to recover between pregnancies, and the ability to space them out to two or three years apart.

[seabeyond]

143. natural form of birth control ... "Lasts for up to six months after giving birth" not 3 yrs

in doctors office waiting for my turn, sittin across from a lady with a one year old and well into another preg..... thought it was an effective BC

i wouldnt totally go that way

[bhikkhu]

161. Well, there are definitely better ways

...and I know the study says 6 months, but I've also read anecdotally several times that several cultures would breastfeed until age two or three partly because it reduced fertility. Maybe they were wrong.

[vanlassie]

162. It does. You just can't depend on it after time as an individual

But it is true that in cultures practicing extended breastfeeding children ARE generally born at about two to three years apart just as you remembered. It is therefore healthier for the mothers. They have a chance to recover between pregnancies. Just one of the hazards of formula- more closely spaced kids -thanks to Nestlé et al.

[laundry_queen]

23. That's a really ignorant view

In most parts of the world, children breastfeed past toddlerhood. My own father, born to a mom with a Ukrainian background and kept her 'view' from the 'old country' that children should be breastfed until they were ready to wean. My aunts were breastfed until they were 3, my dad until he was 2.5. My one aunt definitely remembers breastfeeding. Why is that bad??

Studies show that the 'natural' human weaning age (meaning if we didn't have access to bottles, formula and sippy cups and based on when other mammals lose their milk teeth and wean) would naturally fall between 2.5 and 7. We think that just because we've had bottles for the last 100 years that suddenly the way humans evolved has totally changed and breastfeeding past 6 months is 'sick'. This is a real problem in our society.

The WHO recommends AT LEAST 2 years. I personally breastfed all 4 of my kids past the age of 2. Believe you me, it wasn't because *I* needed it, LOL.

I really think people who haven't researched this and read the science on it shouldn't comment on it, past "It's not for me" which is fine. Don't attack others for doing something humans have been doing for thousands of years because of some breast=sex hangup manufactured in the 20th century.

[cali]

29. Could you please post a reputable study demonstrating

that the "natural" weaning age falls between 2.5 and 7?

Look, I support breast feeding. I breast fed my son until he 15 months, but I don't buy that the natural weaning age is up to 7.

Let me add, I see a lot wrong with that pic? The kid will be 4 in a couple of years. Does mom really need to pose for this pic and expose him to ridicule among his peers or his future peers? Is she really doing this for him?

[laundry_queen]

35. Shit, I knew someone would make me dig up the studies

That I haven't looked at for 10 years. Give me a minute or 2.

Maybe she's doing this for his wife - so if she decides to do the same thing she won't be ridiculed in the same way this woman is being ridiculed.

[cali]

37. so the kid being ridiculed is justifiable?

look, that picture really does say a lot about our culture- and the mother. And what it says isn't good.

[laundry_queen]

42. So what you are saying

is that even if a particular behavior is natural and normal, it's okay to ridicule someone for it if it doesn't conform to YOUR norms of your society? The child shouldn't be ridiculed at all, and this shouldn't even be an issue. Perhaps the mother is trying to change the narrative which would enable her son to grow up without fear of ridicule for that particular picture.

[cali]

48. I'm saying that in our particular culture- in which Ms. Gruman happens to dwell-

nursing a 4 year old isn't normal. And where did I ridicule her? I didn't. I castigated her. I didn't make up the norms of our society, dear. but that's not even my point. She wants to nurse her kid until he's 5 or 7, go for it, but don't frickin' go for it, made up to the 9s in a sexy glamor shot on the cover of a national mag. Seriously, why would anyone do that to their child. And no, she's not going to change any narrative that way and she sure as shit is exposing the poor kid to ridicule. I find it narcissistic to an alarming degree.

[laundry_queen]

51. She's in jeans and a tank top with her hair pulled back.

THAT's 'made up to the 9's'?

You are showing your own biases by calling it a glamour shot. Anyone who has extended breastfed would find that hilarious. I still don't get all this 'omg she ruined her child!'

YOUR prejudices are doing that, not HER posing on a cover.

[cali]

55. yes, dear she's got a ton of make up on. and yes it's a glamor shot.

it's sick to use your child to make YOUR point. Children are people, not accessories. YOU are showing an utter lack of compassion and understanding toward children. What a shame.

[laundry_queen]

66. LOL. Okay. Say that again?

I'm showing a lack of compassion towards children? Really?

Go ahead, shame me again.

I suppose every single person who has a child that has appeared in a diapering commercial with a bare bum should be concerned as well that they show lack of compassion towards their child. What about women who blog about their children's bowel movements? Gosh, there are millions of parents out there who are guilty of this. What about the gay couple that brings their child to a rally? Shame on them!

[cali]

84. right. because I said so much about child models

there is no social stigma attached to babies in diaper commercials and generally no one knows who the kid is anyway. Part of being a parent is discernment. And of course I said nothing about parents and political rallies.

But yes, not using your kids like their an appendage is pretty important as regards child development. Or don't you agree with that?

[laundry_queen]

97. Of course you said nothing about that.

But it is an apt analogy.
Here's my beef:

I agree with you that a mother using her child as an appendage is wrong. For instance, a mother who takes her child to the tanning booth because she likes how SHE looks tanned, so she projects that same image onto her child as if her child was an appendage (which, BTW, is classic narcissistic mother)

What I'm saying is, say, a gay couple who is attending rallies and giving interviews on gay rights brings along their child for photos to say, "Look at US. We are a loving, normal family just like your family. We deserve the same rights. Our child deserves to have married parents just like your child." What if they live in a really backwards community who sees those articles and the child gets bullied at school because of it? Does that mean the parents should never have posed for pictures with their child? Is that 'using' the child as an appendage? I absolutely don't think so.

What I see this woman saying is, "See, look at us. We are normal. We are not sick, or disgusting. This is how much of the world feeds their toddlers. We are normal and we deserve to be treated with respect." Is she using her child to prove a point? Maybe. I don't know. Is that child going to be ridiculed? Well, seeing as children in diaper commercials are usually toddler age (and there is social stigma if you are a teenager with your bare bum on display - how many teens enjoy their parents showing their dates bare bum baby pics?) and you think no one will recognize them, what makes you think in 10 years this child will be recognized?

Part of being a parent is discernment. Part of being a parent is also fighting for what you believe to be in the best interests of your child. There are lots of 'parts' to being a parent.

[cali]

105. I see nothing wrong with any family having their picture taken together

as long as both parents are adults. I don't make a distinction between families with differently sex parents and families with same sex parents. That has nothing to do with this. So no, that is not using a child in a way that could negatively impact him or her.

Look, this is what's known as a glamor shot. The woman is posed and made up and perhaps airbrushed. The kid is unnaturally looking into the camera. A shoot of this sort, btw, generally has more than the photographer present, and there are bright lights. She looks fresh as a daisy, not a hair out of place. She's model thin. There is not one thing natural about this pic. Nothing.

Maybe this woman is trying to make a statement about breast feeding, but frankly this if so she's doing it in a way that is not considerate of her child.

More likely, the mother is a narcissistic attention hound who treats her kid as an accessory. At the very least doing this demonstrates that she is the sensitivity of an armadillo.

[Doremus]

156. Glamor shot?!!!

Now *that's* funny!

Oh, the glamorous world of jeans, tank tops and breastfeeding! The flats are to die for, and the hair ... eat your heart out, Kim Kardashian!

I'm positively swooning from the glamor of it all!



:

[laundry_queen]

62. I was married to a narcissist

I'm well aware of the red flags. It's possible THAT particular mother is, I know many narcissistic mothers who enjoy martyring themselves to the "I'm the greatest mother ever" gods. I knew some who did do that, who did all of the 'awesome mothering' things that they couldn't possibly have actually DONE because they seemed to have oodles of time to write on their blogs about it. However, I know some (myself included) who really did it because of the child. Believe me, my oldest was difficult to wean even though I was done done done. I didn't keep on for myself. And I KNOW I'm no narcissist (yes, seen several psychiatrists and therapists thanks to my divorce. I am normal

I disagree that she won't change the narrative. The more people are exposed to toddlers nursing, the less it gets ridiculed, the more accepted it becomes. I think it's a positive change for our society.

[cali]

88. ....

If you're well aware of the flags, you'd know that's a honking big red flag..

And I doubt you actually know "many" narcissistic mothers. What you're describing isn't even accurate as far as red flags.

What part of don't use your kids is so difficult to grasp?

[laundry_queen]

99. I grew up with a narcissistic mother

thanks. I belong to a support group of daughters of narcissistic mothers (seriously, I'll give you the link via PM if you'd like). My therapist said my mother was narcissistic and recommended a few books. I know all about it. (it's the main reason I ended up with my now-ex. Living with a narcissist's pattern of behavior was all I knew. He's actually more socipathic, but anyway...) Really. I don't think you understand what a mother with NPD really means - it doesn't always mean the mother is all 'look at me'. There are many facets to NPD.

It IS possible that's what this mother has, but it's not necessarily the picture that proves it. If it's part of a pattern of behavior, maybe, but seeing as I don't' know her personally, I can't say. It is possibly a red flag, but it's not a big honking one. Just like people posting on facebook are more likely to have NPD. Does that mean my friend who constantly posts pictures of herself with her kids is a narcissist? If I didn't know her I might think so, but in her case, no, she is not. This mother might just really believe in what she is doing, has that ever occurred to you?

[underseasurveyor]

191. My mother is also a narcissist

to the nth degree coupled with a dis-associative (BPD) borderline personality disorder. One of my brothers is a sociopath narcissist. Fun times growing up If a narcissist mother only meant 'look at me, look at me', growing up would have been so much easier, at least for me.... I think

I'm sure it's not lost on you that other behaviours of narcissism are to bring into any discussion manufactured facts that are merely perceived -maybe's or what ifs-, deny any legitimacy of fact(s) shown to them and anything that is offered is immediately minimized and belittled as being ridiculous. Their perception is the only one that means anything and they know and understand everything about everything and it is all of us that just don't -get it-.

Would be interested in what books or links that have been recommended to you. I have read tons of books over the years about BPD and narcissism but you never know if there's another book or link that may be helpful. Thanks in advance. You can PM me if you like.

Cheers

[laundry_queen]

39. Okay

Here's what I found - she's an anthopologist who is a proponent of breastfeeding. The site hasn't been updated in forever, but it was part of what I had read when I had my first baby.

http://www.kathydettwyler.org/detwean.html

I'll see what else I can find.

[cali]

43. yes, you should see what else you can find.

sorry, but what you posted is literally laughable.

[laundry_queen]

47. Is that so? How?

Please do tell me which scientific journals I should look in (free ones, thanks) that would conform to your prejudices?

[laundry_queen]

49. hahaha.

The American Academy of Pediatrics recommends that “Breastfeeding should be continued for at least the first year of life and beyond for as long as mutually desired by mother and child… Increased duration of breastfeeding confers significant health and developmental benefits for the child and the mother… There is no upper limit to the duration of breastfeeding and no evidence of psychologic or developmental harm from breastfeeding into the third year of life or longer.” (AAP 2005)

The American Academy of Family Physicians recommends that breastfeeding continue throughout the first year of life and that “As recommended by the WHO, breastfeeding should ideally continue beyond infancy, but this is not the cultural norm in the United States and requires ongoing support and encouragement. It has been estimated that a natural weaning age for humans is between two and seven years. Family physicians should be knowledgeable regarding the ongoing benefits to the child of extended breastfeeding, including continued immune protection, better social adjustment, and having a sustainable food source in times of emergency. The longer women breastfeed, the greater the decrease in their risk of breast cancer.” They also note that “If the child is younger than two years of age, the child is at increased risk of illness if weaned.” (AAFP 2008)

I suppose the AAFP is laughable as well.

[cali]

54. again, my objection is not to breast feeding a 3 year old

it's to this narcissistic woman doing this cover and using her child to make her very adult point. Maybe you think it's just fine and dandy to use your kid in a selfish way. I don't. I always respected my kid as an autonomous human being. That child is not a freaking extension of mommy.

As far as the AAP and AAFP go, hey if they both say that it's of most importance in the first year of life. And if they say there's no evidence of harm, fine, but again that's not the point I'm making.

And sorry, I don't believe it's for the benefit of the child to be nursing a kid over 3. I think it's all about mommy- and I've known quite a few women who did it.

[laundry_queen]

56. That's your opinion

And, just a question, when people bring their kids to a protest, are you against that as well?

[cali]

61. that depends. Is the kid

4 and afraid of crowds? then yes, I think that's not a good thing to do. But that's a poor comparison. You aren't exposing your kids to ridicule by doing so.

[laundry_queen]

67. Depends on what the protest is about. nt

[HappyMe]

124. Depending on the size of the crowd, the nature of the protest

and the fact that violence is a possibility - NO, I wouldn't bring a little kid to a protest.

[vanlassie]

139. K Dettwyler is a world renown expert cultural anthropologist

Author of scholarly papers and a Margaret Mead winning textbook - so what are YOUR qualifications,again,Cali?

[vanlassie]

103. Dettwyler. Biological vs cultural perspectives in clin ob and gyn 2004

[4th law of robotics]

83. "The WHO recommends AT LEAST 2 years." Not according to the World Health Organization

Exclusive breastfeeding is recommended up to 6 months of age, with continued breastfeeding along with appropriate complementary foods up to two years of age or beyond.

http://www.who.int/topics/breastfeeding/en/

Saying you have the potential to earn up to 500 bucks a night in tips doesn't mean you will make at least 500 bucks a night.


/unless you were talking about the band. I don't know what their opinion on this matter is.

[laundry_queen]

94. Well, it's changed since I breastfed my kids.

It used to be at least to 2 years and then 'as long as is mutually beneficial'.

[seabeyond]

95. i heard two, too. didnt do two. but that is what i was told decade and half ago. though,

the most nutritious and best with the first 30 days and really 3 months or so. but two was recommended.

[laundry_queen]

102. Thanks. I'm pretty sure

that's what it said when I first did my research (holy crap, it's been 14 yrs now, LOL) and I'm pretty good at remembering exact wording (partial photographic memory). I do remember around the same time the Canadian association of Pediatrics changed adding solids to 4-6 months from 4 months, and the American Association of Peds went straight 6 months. There were a bunch of changes going on at the time.

[seabeyond]

113. yes... and i remember solid at 4-6 mo recomm at around 4. isnt it interesting.

oh oh oh and the big fad back then was giving NO fat to the babies, toddlers and kids cause we were obsessed with fat. thankfully that did not feel right and we went healthy and not worry. no weight problem, no issue. only for them to come out years later saying no fat effecting the little ones brain because they NEED fat for brain to grow in size.... or something.

there were lots of changes then.

then you had the whole, lay on back, no side, no stomach, no back.... wtf???

[Edim]

127. I agree 100% queen.

I wanted to comment, but you said it. Our evolutionary set-up is the king. We shouldn't deny. Nothing wrong.

[underseasurveyor]

187. Yes, agreed.

Nothing wrong.

[cali]

7. I think posing that way and using your kid that way is not a good thing.

in this particular case, it's all about mom.

[dmallind]

8. The pic? A bit weirdbut I guess that's the point - to attract attention

Couldn't give a rat's either way about the activity itself.

[quinnox]

10. I think Time has lost their minds and

have no idea what they are thinking putting that image on the cover. Time is a trash magazine anyhow, I guess they want to start getting into child porn to shock and entice more sales.

[laundry_queen]

24. Holy shit

a child breastfeeding = child porn? WTF?

This sick society is in even more trouble than I thought.

[FarLeftFist]

41. Ugh. Incredibly naive.

[TransitJohn]

50. Child porn? Are you for fucking real?

[Whisp]

65. omg, child porn?

[nadinbrzezinski]

77. Child porn?

Let me show you some other examples that you might consider child porn from around the world.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/--UhvfXuDvvw/Tw5TCkFcmBI/AAAAAAAACnE/tCc86N-McBc/s320/Himba+Mother+Nursing+Infant%252C+By+Uros+Ravbar+2.png





None of these photos are child porn. They are a normal function of the human body. We are a repressed society on the other hand.

[dionysus]

150. you just jet packed over the shark. and yes i do consider breastfeeding at that age a tad odd...

[vanlassie]

154. We get that you think that it's odd.

What we are saying is that actually you just didn't know it's done everywhere, a lot. Surprise!

[dionysus]

181. at that age, it's not done a lot... here. i am aware in other cultures this is more common.

i didn't say it was bad.

[vanlassie]

193. Not JUST in other cultures

I am telling you MANY MANY MANY mothers practice extended nursing HERE. In the USA. We just don't make a big show of it so lots of people are unaware. This is biologically appropriate child raising. Nothing odd about it unless someone is unaware of the practice.

[Brickbat]

11. I think it's offensive that Time, like much of the media, keeps trying to make women hate each other

and ourselves by whipping up unrealistic and often contradictory "ideals" of what it means to be a woman, mother, partner and/or worker.

It's offensive that we fall for it, every time.

Fuck 'em.

[seabeyond]

15. while they airbrush and sexualize for the men, all wrapped in one. nt

[Odin2005]

12. I don't see anything wrong with it.

Maybe I'm just open-minded.

[seabeyond]

16. whatever. none of my business either. breastfeeding use to be simply nature back in my day

before we fucked it up today....

[cali]

18. I don't see anything wrong with nursing your 3 year old

except that EVERY mom I've known who did it (and I know several) was doing it for herself and not the child. I see a lot wrong with using your almost 4 year old in this way.

[laundry_queen]

33. I knew many many women who did it

I'd say a few did it for themselves, as in 'who can be the MOST radical/attached parent'. I'd say MOST in our little group did not do it for themselves. But then we were all part of a parenting group that was very child centered and we were all there because we believed in putting our children's needs first, so perhaps our group skewed towards doing what was best for the kid instead of doing it for ourselves.

I did breastfeed my oldest until she was 4.5. She was a very very needy child who had sensory issues with food when she was younger and was underweight. Breastfeeding was also the only thing that would comfort her before she became verbal (she was late with that as well). For the last year of breastfeeding the only time she did it was when she was in full meltdown mode, so once every couple of weeks, if that. I sure as hell wasn't stuffing the boob in her mouth (at that time I had another baby to feed) because of some need I had, LOL. All of my kids breastfed past 2 years old. The other 3 stopped on their own between 2.5 and 3.5. The WHO recommends AT LEAST 2 years, so I guess I don't see the issue. I personally was very dedicated as I'm obese (and was the only formula fed child in the family, and the only obese one) and I have asthma and allergies as did their father. It was very important to keep my kids away from formula and cow's milk for a long time.

Anyhow, I hate talking about this because I really dislike being judged for it (although it cracks me up that no one where I live cares, just my American friends seem to have issues with it) but I feel like I need to put this out there to break the general consensus that women who do this have some kind of mental issue that means they can't detach from their child. When my last child weaned and I didn't have anymore babies on the way, I breathed a sigh of relief, lol.

[cali]

57. so do I.

Many of my friends breast fed their kids until they were 3 or so. One did until her son was almost five. Again, you want to do it fine. Don't use your kid to illustrate your adult pov.


There is fucking nothing child oriented in what the mother in the picture did.

[redqueen]

69. Great post.

I doubt 'most' moms do it for themselves. Some do, some don't. It sucks seeing women being pitted against each others. Every mother and every child are individuals with different needs and preferences.

[FSogol]

20. The boy seems a little young to be in porn photo shoots.

Just kidding, just kidding.

[cali]

22. Let me be blunt: No kid over 3 in our culture needs the tit.

You want to breast feed your kid when he/she is 3 or 5 or 7 that's your business, but don't frickin' kid yourself that you're doing it for the child.

[cleanhippie]

101. Needs? Who are you to dictate what a persons "needs" are?

And I mean that nicely. Is there nothing that you choose to do that our culture would say that you do not "need"?

That being said, I'm unsure that attachment parenting is a good idea. I'd like to see some studies on its effectiveness or its detriments. Something based in objectivity and not emotion.

[vanlassie]

111. You have many opinions that are radical, Cali

And this is one of them. It's possible some of us know something you don't. But don't let that stop you...You "know" other people's motives. You know the FUTURE, for that matter.

[Ilsa]

131. Sorry, but you don't know what you're talking about.

Last edited Thu May 10, 2012, 06:30 PM - Edit history (1)

Some children love nursing through toddlerhood and don't want to wean. And it certainly doesn't hurt them. Nursing comforts them in ways a dirty made-in-china teddy bear can't.

I had to push my last child to wean because I had been done with feeding him for awhile. We had things going on in our family that were huge stressors. When the issues started settling, I gradually weaned him from his last feeding. This was one thing he could count on at the end of his day. I have no regrets, and he grew up feeling loved and secure. Your assumption that all mothers that do it are doing so for selfish reasons is a closed-minded conclusion.

BTW, these 3-4 year olds aren't nursing all day like a newborn. Many of them are nursing only once or twice at most.

On edit: every child is different. Some need to suckle more and longer than others. This includes children needing pacifiers.

[LanternWaste]

198. "Let me be blunt" is often a paraphrase for...

"Let me be blunt" is often a paraphrase for, "this is my onion, given rudely, masked as a premise, without any validating sources to back it up.

Next time, really surprise us by beginning with "pardon my French" and then curse...

[Lost-in-FL]

25. I learn a new thing or two everyday!

I didn't know what "attachment parenting" was until I just read about it now. Interesting philosophy of parenting if you ask me.

If by the picture they wanted attention, they got it. At least I went on to seek some kind of explanation but many others would just ignore the picture and judge. Magazines are in the business of selling magazines. The unintended consequences of that is that somehow, someone is going to learn something positive.

[Romulox]

26. One thing's for sure: Ms. Jamie Lynne Grumet simply HATES all of this attention.

HATES it!

[cali]

58. ding, ding ding. that's my problem with this.

[Blue_Tires]

112. Her blog crashed from the traffic, so mission accomplished

So of course you've peeped the new cover of TIME Magazine. The story's about attachment parenting, and its cover star is (unavoidably young, hot) L.A. mommy blogger Jamie Lynne Grumet. Annnd she happens to have a three-(going on four)-year-old attached to her left nipple.

Grumet is part of a new wave of moms, led by Irvine doctor and serial book-writer Dr. Bill Sears, who embrace the comforts of keeping their children very, very close well into preschool, TIME reports.

Before her cover gig, 26-year-old Grumet spread the gospel via her personal blog, IAmNottheBabysitter.com...

... an apparent reference to her unavoidable youngness/hotness. But as of this morning, because the Internet is having a monster panty-twist about Grumet's son Aram still breastfeeding at toddler age and because the Internet MUST KNOW MORE, the server for IAmNottheBabysitter.com has "reached the maximum amount of processes."


http://blogs.laweekly.com/informer/2012/05/jamie_lynne_grumet_time_la_blog.php


Nothing more than publicity whoring, plain and simple...So what's next? The reality show or the book deal?

[LanternWaste]

199. Same thing happened to DeGaulle when he too was featured on the cover...

Same thing happened to DeGaulle when he too was featured on the cover...

[rubberducky]

27. Why??

Why would any "mother" do this??The plain and simple fact is she gets a charge out of her child nursing. Freaking wierd.

[Solly Mack]

28. I think that child is going to be mortified when he nears his teens

and that picture is still around for his peers to see.


That was my first thought.

'Meh' was my second thought.

I'm sure the cover was meant to be provocative.

[cali]

30. exactly.

[SoCalDem]

31. There are many women who have spent a LOT of money getting pregnant, and who may only ever have

that one child, so perhaps they are hell-bent to have the tippy-toppiest parenting experience, even if it may be totally at odds with what most of us consider "normal".

There have always been many many many parenting books, but most Moms scan them and then use them as coasters or table leg levelers at some point. Every child is different and every Mom is different.. Children in the same family have "different" parents too..

First baby drops the pacifier..it gets sterilized
Second baby drops the pacifier..it gets swished under the faucet
Third baby drops the pacifier...pick off cat hair & hand it back

[HubertHeaver]

75. That is if you get to the pacifier first. If its one of the older

kids, it gets handed back with the cat hair.

[MineralMan]

32. I think it will sell newsstand copies of the magazine.

That's why they used it. Other than that, I don't think about it much. People breastfeed their children.

[geardaddy]

34. I don't have a problem with women breastfeeding

but this cover is too much.

[SidDithers]

36. Little Britain - Bitty...

Sid

[cali]

40. lol

OK, that was funny.

[dionysus]

151. cmputer says noooo.....

[SidDithers]

157. Love Matt Lucas and David Walliams...

great stuff.

Sid

[jp11]

38. I think that is one huge 3 year old or that is one tiny mom.

[laundry_queen]

46. I do agree with that.

My 5 year old is not even that big, LOL.

[FarLeftFist]

44. I have more of a problem with the cover than the act. The act is beautiful. Feed your child.

[4th law of robotics]

45. Highschool is going to be fun for this kid

[Marrah_G]

52. I think he is a bit old to be breast feeding

[cali]

60. My problem isn't that mom is breast feeding her 4 year old

It's that she's using him.

I find that narcissistic and disgusting.

[HappyMe]

53. Well, they are certainly going to sell a

lot of magazines.

Breastfeed, don't breastfeed - I don't give a crap. What pisses me off is that 'are you mom enough?' bullshit. Just because this woman breastfeeds a 3 year old doesn't make her a better mom than me or anybody I know. I feel kind of bad for the kid. This picture may haunt the kid. If she is such a wonderful mom, wouldn't she have thought of that rather than herself.

[madokie]

59. What will be interesting is if I'll see this in any of the waiting rooms in the near future

Time seems to be a pretty popular mag in those places seems like

[marlakay]

63. I breast fed my two girls until they were a year

for me that was just about right.

Over two seems weird to me, but thats my opinion.

[Arkana]

64. Aaaaggghhhh.

[Bandit]

68. It is none of my business..

[brendan120678]

194. It would be none of anyones business if...

someone took a candid snapshot if her breastfeeding her three year old son.

However, she purposely wanted to make it everyone's business by posing for the cover of Time magazine. That said, in general I don't have a problem with the concept of attachment parenting. But I do think she is trying to exploit both her own looks (she is of above-average attractiveness) and her son for her cause.

[spinbaby]

70. Looks rather uncomfortable to me

I'm in favor of those two finding a nice comfy couch. My kids were nursed until they were 3 and 4 1/2 and it's about time Americans got over breastfeeding prudery.

[Bruce Wayne]

71. So, is this Time story about dining at the Olive Garden?

And where are the pit bulls?

[HappyMe]

72. Smoking in the other room,

with the toddlers that are running around screaming.

[GeorgeGist]

73. Offensive?

[RC]

74. The real problem with this picture is

we are animals and breast feeding reminds people of that. Also the woman nipples are connected by nerves directly to her uterus, vagina, etc., which often give the nursing mother pleasure, as in a climax, the same as in sex. However, with nursing, a baby or young child is involved, which makes some people very uncomfortable with that connection. Too many people here in the United states just cannot handle that information that very well. Hence, bottle fed is preferable, in this country, to nature's way of breast feeding. Bottle feeding allows plausible deniability of our animal status, which is the root cause of the short, six months, till weaning, bottle fed or not.
Also breast feeding helps get the woman body back in shape for the possible next pregnancy.

[seabeyond]

82. wow. two babies and never had an orgasm while breastfeeding

thanks for letting me know.

[4th law of robotics]

87. Never?

Not even during the conception?

That's tragic.

[seabeyond]

89. i edited due to a predictably creepy reply. nt

[4th law of robotics]

90. Creepy?

That's a bit over the top for a lighthearted joke don't you think?

[LanternWaste]

200. Good call and accurate prediction...

Good call and accurate prediction (which then goes on to rationalize itself)

[4th law of robotics]

212. The post I responded to was significantly different than

the one you read.

The original was something like "I have two kids and I've never had an orgasm".

Offering up anecdotes like that is just begging for a response.

She then waited until I had responded and edited it so she could be offended by the response.

I will consider this a useful lesson and in the future when responding to this user I will quote exactly the text I am replying to so she can't mislead people like this again.

That I suppose was my mistake and I will try not to make it again.

[seabeyond]

213. how we create stories to fit. since i was adressing a poster saying women breastfeeding

had orgasm, that was pretty clear what i was replying to. i clearly said, due to your comment, i edited. that hardly means i lay in wait for a poster to make a stupid comment so i could change my post and accuse.

talk about owning your behavior, lmao. wow.... what a fuckin hoot.

and i am pretty sure the poster you are replying to gets what happened. he is a clever dude.

[4th law of robotics]

214. I responded to what you said

Not to what you *would* say after I had responded.

I think that makes a big difference.

"213. how we create stories to fit. since i was adressing a poster saying women breastfeeding
had orgasm, that was pretty clear what i was replying to. i clearly said, due to your comment, i edited. that hardly means i lay in wait for a poster to make a stupid comment so i could change my post and accuse.

talk about owning your behavior, lmao. wow.... what a fuckin hoot.

and i am pretty sure the poster you are replying to gets what happened. he is a clever dude.

"

[dionysus]

189. what a crass and bizarre reply.

[4th law of robotics]

208. The post I responded to was edited post-reply

so probably makes less sense now.

[dionysus]

209. ah, i see wha you mean. makes sense now.

[gkhouston]

205. Actually, I don't know any nursing moms who experienced sexual pleasure while nursing.

And we weren't reticent when discussing sex. Not saying it can't/doesn't happen for some, but it's far from universal.

[zappaman]

76. I wish I was that kid... n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

78. Natural activity, next.

[-..__...]

79. I'll gladly swap places with the kid.

[Blaukraut]

92. If you like breast milk, I suggest the Human Milk Banking Association. Not sure if you'd qualify as

a recipient, however. They tend to donate to infants in need of breast milk, and I assume you don't fit that category.

[seabeyond]

93. meh... sounds like he might be just the right age. nt

[HopeHoops]

80. I don't see the problem. All three of ours gave up the nip on their own.

In some cultures they nurse until six or more. It can be more nutritious than the available food (and certainly beats the hell out of formula).

[jberryhill]

81. I think it is awful

Why would Time do a cover mention on the "God of Cricket?"

We don't even play cricket on any kind of appreciable scale here in the US.

Putting a cricket story on the cover is a horrible idea.

[Rex]

85. Why?

Last edited Thu May 10, 2012, 04:18 PM - Edit history (1)

Why do that to a child?

EDIT - why exploit a 3 year old child for money? I strongly disagree with the cover.

[Blue_Tires]

119. She wants cheap, instant, trainwreck celebrity...

Maybe she's hoping to be the "next big thing" and cash in with the reality TV producers...

http://blogs.laweekly.com/informer/2012/05/jamie_lynne_grumet_time_la_blog.php

[Rex]

207. Sure does seem that way.

I am very leary of people that have no problem selling their soul to the highest bidder.

[4th law of robotics]

86. It's not offensive to me. Does seem a bit AWish

for the lady and the magazine.

To me it comes across as trying to create controversy to sell magazines.

So . . . meh.

[RebelOne]

91. My only comment is that is a little unnerving at first glance. n/t

[ileus]

96. Is that kid keeping her thin? nt

?

[RC]

104. Yep, sucking all the nutrition out of her.

[Nikia]

192. I went from 160 to 115 after 6 months of exclsuively breast feeding my son

Granted the first 15-20 pounds was lost with child birth and fluid loss within the first few weeks. I wasn't dieting and only doing a couple short walks per week. He was overweight during that time and became underweight by a year old as I decreased breast feeding. I started gaining weight back even with heavier exercise decreased food intake. In my experience, breast feeding contributed to getting thin in my case.
I have seen 500 calories per day as the figure given for calories burned through exclusively breast feeding. That is like doing significant exercise every day. I would think that there is some variation in that and is obviously less with fewer feedings.

[Blue_Tires]

107. crass, sensationalist, and a shameless use of cheap sexual thrills

which take away from legit discussion of the subject...(not that they were ever about really discussing the subject to begin with)

This is honestly something I would have expected from the onion, not a "serious" publication, to say nothing of the fact that they're only doing this because she's a svelte blonde with a pretty face...God forbid they use a "regular" looking mother try to pull this off this tasteless bullshit-- Of course then you wouldn't get the free publicity from the outrage machine, and you'd lose newsstand sales from titillated men...

Time/Newsweek should drop the facade and just have a "deviant fetish of the week" cover...

And as an aside, I really hope she changes her son's name -- His future classmates are going to make his life a living hell just to feed her narcissism...

[cali]

118. You put it well- much better than I did

thanks.

[HappyMe]

120. What, might I ask, is a 'regular' looking woman?

[Blue_Tires]

123. The body/face/age ranges Time editors won't put in this pose

even if there was a gun to their heads...

[HappyMe]

126. Which is what, exactly?

[badtoworse]

135. What did you have in mind for "deviant fetish of the week"?

[Myrina]

183. +10

Well said.

[Union Scribe]

109. Some Twitter responses I found funny

Karen Howell ? @karenehowell
People are talking about Time Magazine for the first time in recent mammary.

Brian ? @HotEats
Guys I swear I read Time Magazine for the articles.

Jordan Beane ? @Jbeane3
You gotta ask yourself - when was the last time you EVER talked about TIME MAGAZINE??? Well played.

[rug]

115. What else are you supposed to do while you're waiting on line at The Olive Garden?

[MadrasT]

121. Looks like she's going to be on "Today" tomorrow morning

TIME's breast-feeding toddler cover spurs shock, talk

[Blue_Tires]

122. And so it begins

we'll be hearing a lot more from her very soon...

[Blue_Tires]

169. and even the BBC picked it up this morning

[badtoworse]

125. That kid seriously needs the Gussie

[vanlassie]

146. I know what you mean by that

Shame!

[badtoworse]

158. It seems like you're the only one who does.

[vanlassie]

160. We're well read!

[smirkymonkey]

174. A Tree Grows in Brooklyn?

First thing I thought of when I saw that cover.

[badtoworse]

186. You got it! First thing I thought of too.

[MadrasT]

128. From Salon - an article about the article

Why Time's Cover Shocks

Why Time’s cover shocks
Hint: it's not the breast-feeding -- it's the contempt

In case you thought, nay, hoped, that the barrel-bottom had been fully scraped last week when the New York Times asked, in a query straight out of the Onion, “Has women’s obsession with being the perfect mother destroyed feminism?,” now Time magazine has upped the ante with a cover story brazenly challenging “Are You Mom Enough?”

It’s accompanied, by the way, by a picture of a hot blonde and her 3-year-old son standing on a chair to suckle her breast. Yo, take THAT, Room for Debate page! I guess Time felt it really had to bring it after uber-troll Katie Roiphe’s piece last month on why feminists just want a good spanking.

(snip)

First of all, why, when a breast-feeding mother makes the cover of a national magazine, is it a thin, young one in a tank top? Grumet’s image is so obviously sexualized it’s not even trying to pretend otherwise. But the real problem with the cover story is its obvious, dripping disdain. This is not just an attention-getting MILF shot. It’s a picture of a woman “driven” to an “extreme.”

(snip)

[seabeyond]

129. women are really being attacked on all fronts. since men are the controlling factor,

i gotta believe men of all sorts are feeling a need to protect domain.... and worse, women allow and promote and help men sustain

[MadrasT]

133. Interesting to see the alternate shots they rejected

Behind The Cover

(You can scroll through to see four other shots they didn't use.)

In one day, Schoeller photographed four families from across the country who practice this method of motherhood. Using religious images of the Madonna and Child as reference, Schoeller captured each mother breast-feeding her child or children. “When you think of breast-feeding, you think of mothers holding their children, which was impossible with some of these older kids,” Schoeller says. “I liked the idea of having the kids standing up to underline the point that this was an uncommon situation.”

[seabeyond]

136. yes... it is. interesting. thanks. nt

[uppityperson]

165. They picked the most striking "wtf" one indeed. I'd like to see them comfortable together, not

standing and with the child on a chair. Make it more natural.

Thanks for the link, interesting.

[seabeyond]

175. "picked the most striking "wtf" one indeed." exactly, with such a stark background. lack of

connection, more like a sippy cup.

i think that is the thing is the use of it. and really the only issue. but i also see it lovely, too... except the manipulation

[Blue_Tires]

170. That's similar to the point I was trying to make

From just a media standpoint, the cover screams "We need to pull this tasteless eyeball-grabbing stunt because our editorial content isn't good enough on its own merits", like any common trashy tabloid...

The sad part is all this publicity is only going to encourage and enable more outrageousness in the future...

[Edim]

130. It's good

to be controversial about this to provoke reflection. It's a win-win.

[FedUpWithIt All]

185. Agreed

I am hoping that eventually the saturation level begins to wear down the shocked outrage.

As to the choice of image, i think it's a reflection of the attitude of the opposition toward late breastfeeding and was a good choice. It certainly isn't a representation of the reality.

[Prometheus Bound]

132. I think the more right wing a person is, the more likely they are to find some reason to complain.

Progressives would tend to say, So?

Sorry, no academic studies immediately available to support that generalization.

[sadbear]

134. So it begins

[DainBramaged]

137. Irrelevant rag

[progressoid]

138. So when do they start potty training?

Freud wants to know.

[Jennicut]

140. I don't find it offensive. It is a mother breastfeeding her child.

Perhaps we sexualize the image ourselves?
I do question the age...to wean a 3 year old from breastfeeding seems really difficult and not something I would want to have dealt with. Both my kids were bottle fed, just couldn't get that breastfeeding thing down.

[vanlassie]

147. Thank you. Just to be clear...

Mothers nurse their young. Our definition of young is seriously negatively swayed by the prodiminate culture. Not a healthy culture to be sure. In spite of the lack of respect for, or understanding of this biological imperative, many mothers recognize that their children's needs are far more important than anything the outside culture tries to do to convince her that she is wrong. So whether it is common knowledge or not, many many of us have nursed our children for years, not months And those kids have grown up healthy and brilliant and well adjusted. It's not the only way- but it's damn sure a GOOD-no-EXCELLENT way to nurture the next generation. And it absolutely does NOT SPOIL, or otherwise do anything bad. Those who assume so are playing out some, at best, misunderstanding of how human infants evolved to be nurtured.

[cali]

180. I don't think so. it's a glamor shot. It's deliberately provocative

does the kid actually use a little chair when he's nursing? Is mom always perfectly coiffed and made up? The child is looking into the camera.

This is a posed shot. It's not like they shot a pic of her when she's naturally nursing.

[Odin2005]

144. This thread is proof that many "progressives" still have backward attitudes...

...towards the female breast. The couple posters thinking that this is "child porn" are a good example.

[MrSlayer]

148. Why would it be offensive?

Mother feeding child is nature at its core, isn't it?

[vanlassie]

149. Exactly- and this is what provokes the reactivity- women have unduplicatable power to nurture.

[randome]

152. Eh. Men can be very nurturing, too.

And nurturing doesn't always derive from having the proper 'equipment'.

[vanlassie]

153. Of course. But then not all men have a problem with a woman nursing a three or four year old

And some WOMEN do. This is not about men vs women.

[RC]

182. Correct. Breast feeding reminds some people that we Humans are just another animal species.

And that goes against the grain of some of us Humans as we are supposedly above Nature. Because we have a "Soul", therefore that proves we are are not connected to the mere animals.
Breast feeding ties us to all to those lower animals and dumb beasts and therefore some think it is something we need to be ashamed of doing. How can we be animals when we are so much smarter than the animals.

Which raises a question, "Why can they show the breast as long as they do not show that obscene nipple? Men can show it, but not women. Why?

[tjwash]

155. We need an Olive Garden story now to make the sacred DU trifecta complete!

2 pit bull storys, and breast feeding!! Du...you RULE!

[Hippo_Tron]

163. Actually, she needs to have a cigarette in her hand for it to be truly complete

[countryjake]

159. I'm dying laughing here, all of the indignant reactions to this mag cover...

and so as not to further raise the ire, all I've got to say is more power to her. Nature at work!

[AsahinaKimi]

164. I have a question...

How does a cover like this go over, when people were up in arms about Janet Jackson's SUPERBOWL HALF TIME nipple slip? I really don't get it. I personally have nothing against this cover.. but I just wonder how, in this crazy country.. this happens without the same people going nuts.

[countryjake]

166. Give it time (hee hee, I made a pun)...

I haven't a doubt that they will be going berserk, too. I would almost be willing to bet on that.

[seabeyond]

179. i hear this a lot on du, i think they leave an element out of the "nipple slip".

with the song, choreography and movement, i dont think it was a nipple slip anymore than the flipped finger from the singer this year. i think it was purposely done. that is one strike. i think that with a black woman, and a white man ripping her top was another element. then the added man/woman ripping clothes off for exposure and her coy "oooops" and hide was just stupid. so, not all people see the exposure as just a slip. some people feel it was purposely done and that is what is bothersome to me.

as far as what you are saying comparing the two.... not much thought there

i just see that so often, and it is always with the consideration that it was accidental and not everyone believes that.

[FedUpWithIt All]

167. I'll be so glad when this type of thing is not even worthy of shock anymore.

Last edited Fri May 11, 2012, 11:59 PM - Edit history (1)

Her kid. Her breast. And since she is doing nothing more than providing her child nourishment, it shouldn't matter how openly she does it.

Honestly, it astonishes me that we rant and rave over such things. Such a ridiculous non issue.

Has anyone noticed the weather? The deformed and dying sea life? The corruption in high places? The melting ice caps? The nuclear meltdown?

OMGZZZZ a woman is feeding her toddler...from her **gasp** breast

[Duppers]

168. I'm with you.

Who cares?!

[madokie]

171. My mother was a beautiful woman

and I have the uncanny ability to remember back to when I was still on the tit so this is not offensive at all to me.
When I was born in late march of '48, Easter Sunday btw, we had a big snow on the ground to where the doctor that delivered me arrived by horseback due to the roads being impassable. I still remember sitting in my mothers lap suckling looking out the window and watching my siblings play in the snow. I remember that after the snow which was capped with freezing rain had melted it looked like the field had been given a hair cut where my brothers and sisters had broken the grass and weeds off at the top of that layer of ice from skating and sliding in their playing. My eyesight was a little fuzzy at the time but I remember this well.

[nadine_mn]

172. No problem w/ breastfeeding, the photo bugs me

Clearly it is a posed shot - which means the son is not breastfeeding in his normal, nurturing position. Unless that is how she breastfeeds - a bit standoffish, arm to one side, son on a chair.

It is meant to shock or be controversial and doesn't that defeat the purpose?

And the whole "are you mom enough?" - sigh I am so glad I don't have children (which of course in our culture also means I am not woman enough)

[Ship of Fools]

173. I'd have no problem with it IF

they put a regular, shrumpy woman in the shot (like myself...).
Beautiful, airbrushed woman will sell mags. This is just more
wedge shit thrust upon women and a fantasy photo for the bored and
lonely man-child. It makes me so tired.

[Arkana]

177. I think that poor little bastard is going to spend the rest of his life

with that magazine cover following him around.

[varelse]

178. I'm not offended by the photograph

but thanks for the warning.

[barbtries]

184. i nursed my children until they refused the breast

none of them were that old though. i'm not willing to judge this, though the child seems quite old to still be nursing.

[cherish44]

188. That kid looks closer to five than three

It's none of my business how long a mother chooses to breastfeed or where. I guess my problem with the picture is they obviously chose a young, very attractive mom and posed her in a way that makes it look sexual (I believe breastfeeding is NOT sexual in any way shape or form). Very shameful tactic to sell magazines.

[seabeyond]

206. i was listening to NPR talking about this today. very unattached talking about attached

parenting.

i think that is what the pictured represented in order to sexualize is to keep it unattached, which is contradictive of what they are talking about.

[bigwillq]

190. Her kid, her choice

as to how she feeds him.

The cover is for shock value to sell issues, but I really don't care how she feeds her kid. Her kid, her choice.

[Major Nikon]

195. If someone is offended by this, they should get out more

There are things in this world worthy of being offended by. This is not one of those.

[lastlib]

196. If the kid is big enough to ask for it.....

...then he's too big to have it! If he can stand up to get it, he's too old to have it! That is RIDICULOUS!!! that woman is a TOTAL IDIOT!!!

[MineralMan]

197. Why do you care what she does?

I guess I don't understand that, really.

[lastlib]

201. I don't really care--I just expressed my opinion that she's...

...two deuces short of a full deck. I would fully expect that child to have some emotional problems in the future.

[MineralMan]

203. It's not as uncommon a practice as you think.

I wouldn't expect any such thing, based on weaning age.

You were pretty vehement in your disapproval, so I wondered why. It's this woman's decision, not mine, and not yours. None of our business, really. If you don't think kids should be breastfed past a certain age, then I suggest you not do that with yours.

[LanternWaste]

202. At worst, I find it merely benign. On the other hand, at best I also find it merely benign.

At worst, I find it merely benign. On the other hand, at best I also find it merely benign.

I don't see manipulation, pornography, oddness, a wedge issue, or even someone attempting to get 15 minutes of fame. Just another benign cover by a photographer.

[shanti]

204. rather sensationalistic and in your face

is how i see it, and i nursed 4 kids myself. all were weaned by 1 year though.

[Liberal_in_LA]

211. yeah. Even nursing moms are trashing it. Some question if she's even lactating, saying it

looks like porn.

[Buns_of_Fire]

210. Camouflage pants on a three-year-old. How gauche. nt