87% of African Americans view Hillary Clinton favorably

[Cali_Democrat]

<...>

But if you look at what the polls are telling us so far, Democrats seem quite happy to have Clinton as their presidential nominee. In the latest Pew poll, 77 percent of Democrats see her favorably, and she has strong approval across ages, incomes, and races. (African-Americans, the most important Democratic sub-group, rate her particularly highly, at 87 percent favorable.)

<...>

http://theweek.com/articles/556175/hillary-clinton-fewer-problems-democratic-base-than-might-think

Blacks played a HUGE role 2008 primaries and this will likely continue in 2016.

How does Sanders appeal to African Americans? He's from a tiny homogeneous state with few blacks.

Can Sanders appeal to African Americans the way Hillary and Obama do?

I think this will determine whether or not Sanders is competitive.

[leftofcool]

1. This is excellent news.

[akbacchus_BC]

321. I am scared to post a response on here lest I get attacked.

I do not feel Bernie Sanders is ready for the position of President, nor do I see him trying to stop violence by the police against Black people.

I do not like Hilary Clinton either, she is for big business and does not care for poor people or veterans who are suffering.

Where are all the good people who ran when President Obama ran? I wish he could get elected again but that is wishful thinking!

[NYC_SKP]

331. I have to wonder who Obama will vote for.

I'm still a huge supporter, I want to think he'd go for Bernie because he had a civil rights supporting history despite what people say, it goes way back.

[Robbins]

2. well

when Bernie sanders was young man he supported civil rights.

Civil Liberties means more than Sanders than it ever will be for Obama or Hillary.

[Cha]

200. No, Civil Liberties doesn't mean more to Sanders than it does to the President.

[zappaman]

219. Holy shit!

Civil rights mean more to Sanders than Obama!!

[Cha]

220. wa wa wa wa.. the

disingenuous cheap pot shots never stop.

lol.. I didn't even think about that.. Good Gawd! Thanks zappaman!

[Number23]

303. Aha! So THIS is the post that gay posters, women and black folks are saying almost made them

pass out and have to reach for smelling salts!

Civil Liberties means more than Sanders than it ever will be for Obama or Hillary.

I missed this before. I think my brain and eyes were just trying to protect themselves.

[seabeyond]

304. let the old white man educate the woman and black man about oppression? nt

[Number23]

305. Hey, why not? They've had to teach us everything else (or so they desperately love to think)!

I am so bookmarking this thread. To be revisited in about 6-8 months time. Will be most illuminating, I think.

[seabeyond]

306. already bookmarked. it is a gem of example and explanation and oh... ya, education. nt

[stevenleser]

308. That you actually wrote those words and hit "post" and haven't self deleted by now...

...indicates some serious reality issues.

A straight white male versus an African American male and a woman and you think civil liberties are a bigger deal for the straight white male?

Obamas Twitter account was barely a few hours old when someone called him the n word. That and the sexist garbage that Hillary faces on a daily basis versus Bernie's experiences with discrimination?

[NYC_SKP]

3. Name Recognition. Among any group and voters at large, it's about the name "Clinton".

Last edited Fri May 22, 2015, 09:00 AM - Edit history (2)

Nothing More.

African American voters historically support Democrats, so who are they going to say they support in a poll?

Nobody has heard of Sanders or Warren, most people aren't on DU or paying attention to cable news.

Whether we look at blacks or whites or Asians or Hispanics, the Clinton name and the Clinton brand are polling high.

I don't see where Clinton has done anything particularly courageous for people of color.

If anything, her policies of outsourcing and helping foreign trade have cost us jobs.

[LanternWaste]

6. Creative allegation...

Creative allegation. Nothing more.

[NYC_SKP]

8. As you wish.

We shall see.

[questionseverything]

31. her overall rating is down 9 points

Last edited Fri May 22, 2015, 03:25 PM - Edit history (1)

Meanwhile, Hillary Clinton, the clear front-runner for the Democratic nomination, is widely popular with Democrats; 77% of Democrats and Democratic leaners view her favorably.

Views of Hillary Clinton, 2007-2015However, Clinton’s favorable ratings have declined – among the public, as well as Democrats – since last summer. Currently, 49% of the public has a favorable opinion of Clinton, while 47% view her unfavorably. Clinton’s overall favorability rating has fallen nine points from 58% last August. This is Clinton’s lowest favorability mark since the spring of 2008, during her run for the Democratic nomination. (For more on Clinton’s favorable ratings since 1992, see this interactive).

The decline in Clinton’s favorability since August has come about equally among Democrats and Democratic leaners (from 86% then to 77% today) and Republicans and Republican leaners (from 27% to 17%).

Bill Clinton’s favorable rating has fallen 10 points since 2012. Currently, 58% of the public views Bill Clinton favorably, down from 68% in September of that year. Clinton’s ratings also are at their lowest point since 2008.

http://www.people-press.org/2015/05/19/republicans-early-views-of-gop-field-more-positive-than-in-2012-2008-campaigns/

[DemocratSinceBirth]

41. I need a link because your post contradicts this

Against the backdrop of the press swirling around these stories, it may be comforting to the Clinton team as they focus on sewing up the Democratic nomination that most of the increase in her unfavorable rating has occurred among Republicans, not Democrats or political independents. Nearly nine in 10 Republicans now view her unfavorably, up from 75% in March. Over the same period, her unfavorable rating has increased only three percentage points among independents and Democrats, hardly significant except that it has held at this slightly higher level for two months.


http://www.gallup.com/poll/183158/hillary-clinton-unfavorable-score-ticks.aspx?utm_source=POLITICS&utm_medium=topic&utm_campaign=tiles

[OilemFirchen]

136. I would like a link as well.

Because without one, it's, at best, a copyright infringement.

[questionseverything]

284. i added it to the comment

the link was within the article being discussed so i didnt realize i needed to add it

my bad

[DemocratSinceBirth]

47. I am in Los Angeles

She will carry South (predominately African American) and East (Latino) L A precincts with >75% of the vote.

If she doesn't I will streak past Staples Center when the Lakers play on Christmas Day.

[Long Drive]

84. As meaningless as the game

The Lakers? WTF cares?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

91. How is it meaningless that HRC will carry African Americans and Latinos

How is it meaningless that HRC will garner over ninety percent of African Americans and Latinos votes and consequently annihilate her Democratic opponent(s) ?


The point about streaking better known as running naked was to express my confidence in my prediction...

The venue is Staples... Would it be more convincing if I said I would streak past Staples Center when the Clippers or Kings play or when the Globetrotters are in town?

lol

[Long Drive]

92. Lakers and Clippers are meaningless

Maybe you meant Oracle?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

95. Oakland is too far away./NT

[Cali_Democrat]

15. So blacks support her only because of name recognition and nothing more?

Do you have any evidence to back up this assertion?

[NYC_SKP]

25. LOL. As if.

[Cali_Democrat]

103. I'm not sure I understad your reply

Where's your evidence that African-American support for Hillary is based on name recognition and nothing more?

[MaggieD]

250. Wow! Are you trying to say minorities...

... Don't have enough sense to know why they support a candidate?

[1StrongBlackMan]

267. No ...

that's what He/She SAID ... before reading it and trying to back-track.

And these folks wonder why PoC aren't falling over backwards to be their allies!

[JI7]

52. it's bs most black voters for Obama still loved her

I saw this when i was trying to get support for him. In fact the Clintons and Obama are very popular among every minority group.

[uponit7771]

324. ++++DING DING DING DING DING++++ !!!!

[Cha]

201. It's insulting.

[quickesst]

66. name recognition...

Nothing MORE??

[DemocratSinceBirth]

180. It seems a bit patronizing to suggest African Americans

It seems a bit patronizing to suggest African Americans aren't aware that HRC was a First Lady, a senator, and a SOS and they only know of her because she has a popular name.

[uponit7771]

325. Blacks look at issues also

[CTyankee]

106. with regard to the African American community, I think there is a deeper reason than

just name recognition. I think it is too dismissive to view that 87% as mere "name recognition." That is part of it, but it's an awfully high percentage. Perhaps that is something the white Dem voters need to think about. I am more a Bernie supporter now than a Hillary supporter, as I was more of a Warren supporter earlier. But I see this and say hmm...

[Recursion]

245. Hell, for the earlier primaries and caucuses in 2008, Clinton beat Obama in the black vote

Before Bill managed to insult southern African Americans (ahead of the SC primary IIRC) one of the Obama campaign's big worries was how far they were trailing Clinton among African Americans.

[uponit7771]

326. YES!! It wasn't until SC that Blacks as a majority even looked at Obama... My wife was with Hillary

... the whole time until she gave it up

[Number23]

111. Is this today's meme? That the only reason Clinton has such high favorables is because people

"know her name?" Lots of people know W's name too. What do you think his favorables are, particularly among black people?

[Cha]

202. Good point.

[MaggieD]

251. Now you're using logic on people

Do you really think that's fair? LOL!!

[Sheepshank]

116. you really wish to swipe an entire voting block as nothing more that "stupid" and ....

... brainless sheeple?

Because it sure sounded like it.

[NYC_SKP]

117. Wow. It's your brain that took you there. AA voters historically go w Democrats.

More than any other demographic, IIRC.

Clinton is the most widely recognized Democrat in the running. The only one, in fact, until very recently.

Add to that her connection as a member of Obama's cabinet.

Shame on you for letting your mind go to an ugly place and using that term, "stupid".

[Sheepshank]

128. I honestly think you are trying to shame the wrong person

it's really on you for labelling the entire voting block as having only enough knowledge to vote for a name only and assume the entire voting block has little other on their agenda.

Besides how does your thought process square with the Hispanic vote? Their history isn't exactly putting them in the same "given" for Dem votes. Would not Cruz and Rubio be a natural choice if all that was on the line is a name?

[NYC_SKP]

132. I put that same factor down on every single demographic, every voter.

It applies equally well with all the folks who instinctively vote for the devil they know.

It's also this thing about fear of losing to the GOP.

Look, nobody else has been in the running.

Now things are about to change.

[pnwmom]

145. African Americans support Hillary in higher proportions than do women, Hispanics,

or other Democratic subgroups.

Your theory does not explain that, unless you believe that black people are especially susceptible to name recognition, and lack of interest in issues.

[NYC_SKP]

146. Its a real shame if anyone is trying to associate black people with weakness.

I've tried to explain it to you and I am not going to try any more.

I'm not a social scientist, I made an observation that many people go by name recognition, especially when there aren't others running who are at all known figures.

So you can stop it with your attempts to take this any further.

Review what I've written and then take a walk or something.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

194. Only you did that in this thread

Only you did that in this thread:

"Its a real shame if anyone is trying to associate black people with weakness."

when you suggested black folk only like her because they know her name.


Do you believe black folk know George Bush's or Ronald Reagan's name and if the answer is yes do you think they liked them?


When you answer that you will see how absurd your suggestion that they like Clinton because they know her name is.

[1StrongBlackMan]

269. Someone needs to go back to the Dojo ...

the jiu-jitsu is weak in this one.

But I am noticing a pattern in this group ... "Suspect" says "A"; PoC (or, LGBT) answers not "A"; Suspect accuses PoC (or, LGBT) of saying "A" ... and off we go!

[bettyellen]

232. Nope Skip- the "many people" you dismissed as thoughtless are POC....

Back pedal all you want- but it didn't occur to you to give the voting block on discussion any respect at all. Embarrassed for you.

[NYC_SKP]

233. Nope. I dismiss all pro Clinton numbers as based on name recognition, all groups.

I've said it over and over on this board. In this case it was the AA community that was polled and I make the same case.

When it looks like it's Clinton versus nobody I've ever heard of before, Clinton is going to get high numbers.

Further, I've cited other factors but in the end I don't give a flying fuck what you think, you always shit on my replies, here, in the religion group, it's pretty tired.

Seeya.

[bettyellen]

244. awesome job you're doing alienating everyone! Good luck w that'

[U4ikLefty]

322. Sorry you're geting hit by the usual suspects.

They love to pile on, don't they?

This one is so obvious, it's kind of funny.

[pnwmom]

130. That is an insult to African Americans who always liked the Clintons. They aren't idiots

who only like Hillary because they recognize her name and not Sanders.

[NYC_SKP]

133. The pheonomenon applies equally well to every single traditional Democratic leaning demographic.

You can try all you want to put some kind of bigotry spin on this.

Ain't gonna work.

[pnwmom]

143. African Americans approve of Hillary in higher proportions

than other Democratic subgroups -- which all recognize her name. And the OP was specifically about African American's opinion ofHillary.

So to suggest that AA are particularly susceptible to name recognition, that the only reason they support her is because of her name, reveals an unfortunate bias.

[CreekDog]

259. no, they've heard of George W. and Jeb Bush and that name recognition

isn't helping either brother with their support from African Americans.

nice try. helps if you are correct. try harder.

[Tarheel_Dem]

4. The short answer is NO he can't. I had this very conversation last night. This is not 2008 &

Bernie Sanders is no Barack Obama. Therefore, he poses no threat to Hillary's pursuit of the nomination.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

252. Thats true. The only real threat to Hillary's pursuit of the nomination is Hillary.

[misterhighwasted]

5. She's up 7% from the poll I saw yesterday.

She is loved, admired & respected on a World scale.
That she has earned. That is where those jewels in her crown come from.
Regardless of what the RW media says.
Murdoch, Adelson & the Kochs do not own everyone on the planet.
Sec Clinton's lifetime work for people has earned her that percentage number.

The RW will never break apart the supporters that surround her. Its quite a thick wall & growing in size.

[MineralMan]

7. She also has good polling in the Hispanic community,

and has just hired someone with ties to that demographic. If she can inspire turnout in both of those sectors, it will make a big difference. An Obama endorsement would solidify that, I'm sure, and it will be forthcoming at some point, but probably not until there have been some primaries and it looks certain that she'll be the nominee.

[misterhighwasted]

12. Agree with your post.

Its a process, & I too expect much endorsement to come her way should she be our 2016 Dem candidate.
The Hispanic voter block here in Tx is huge, but we are dealing with a very corrupt State govt also. They change policy in the middle of the night without debate nor notice, when it comes to voter issues.

Ir will be the Hispanic vote that shifts this State in any direction but red.
We work on it every election, and some day the corrupt Texas TeaGOP will no longer hold all the power.

[MineralMan]

14. Keep up the good work in Texas.

Eventually, it will turn Blue.

[seabeyond]

28. this is what i am seeing also. especially in texas and colorado. the difference in

supporters and with the diversity of texas. lol, ya ya ya. but. you have the south, heavy hispanic and the west, white.
but, i am seeing clinton coming up to our area, and that will be interesting.

[DURHAM D]

53. Have her Texas events been announced yet?

I know she will be in Austin on June 4th but have not seen where she will be on the 3rd. Maybe she will do an event at Texas Woman's University. That would piss some people off.

[seabeyond]

56. i read something in lubbock, but sounds like just the group for her and not clinton

herself. this is not a friendly area for her. but man.... it would be fun.

[seabeyond]

57. she could easily take on the repugs in this state. maybe not with numbers, but damn, look good. nt

[DURHAM D]

65. I think most are unaware of how pissed off the women folk are.

I live in a red state now and everywhere I go I encounter Republican women (over 60 most of them) who plan to vote for Hillary. They have just had enough of the Teabagger idiot white males.

As for the young men, they are mostly Paulites. They have no clue what his positions are so they just like him because he is young and he is angry, which taps into their frustrations.

[seabeyond]

68. ah, see? we have cruz talking in our neighborhood. lol. how easy to address.

we have so many fundamentalists that i would not be surprise they are good with it. and our women and liberal men are more richardson, that means clinton, to a sanders which they would see more a kerry

i THINK... just thinking here.

[DURHAM D]

70. The reaction by everyone I encounter is

negative toward Bernie. They don't know much about him except that he is from back East...that place where everyone looks down on the people in the fly over states and think they are better than them.

[seabeyond]

74. I have only heard from my son, with peers and teachers that listen.

I have not even got out and about. I was so a part 2004, and it killed me, I am telling you. Lol. Obama was prett good. I didn't interact with rw

[misterhighwasted]

123. Agree completely.

All who have been so insultingly addressed by the RW are pushed beyond the human limit by the policies of exclusion.
The Right Wing Exclusive Club has narrowed itself to the point of revolt at the polls by everyone else in this country.

I hope the Dem candidate has long enough coattails in 2016 to rebalance the House & Senate along with their Presidency.

[misterhighwasted]

99. As far as I know Austin is the only one announced.

It will be held at the home of Suzanne & Marc Winkleman. A fundraiser & it will be held on the same day Rick Perry announces his Pres bid in Dallas.
The Clinton team had this date scheduled prior to Perry's announcement. Hers is private where Perry's will be very public & yes it will consume the local news. Not a bad thing for Hillary as she prefers to remain out of the eye of the Press.
The coincidence, however will give Perry some fuel to his rabid Tx supporters fire. I'm sure he will offer a few mocking comments as to Hillary being in Austin.

As to the other Tx campaign stops, none have been announced yet. Either due to logistics or simply remaining silent from the prying press.

She will do well in Tx. Many love her & the rest despise her. Kind of like DU In GD.

YES, Texas Women's University would be a great place to meet her strong supporters and deliver a big poke in the eye to a few Tx TeaPubbies.

I hope she does a stop at TWU. Its also a great mix of constituents.

[seabeyond]

101. +1. thanks. nt

[Tarheel_Dem]

27. +1. The Obama coalition will back Hillary.

[MineralMan]

29. Yes, probably.

Right now, Senator Sanders is backed by a fairly thin group of sui disant progressives. I'm not sure that support will extend very far past that demographic. I'm going to caucus for him, because I like where he comes from. I doubt, though, that he will prevail in my state of Minnesota, given what I know about its political positions.

[Tarheel_Dem]

40. I don't doubt the passion of Sanders supporters, but McGovern had very passionate supporters as well

Just sayin'.....

[MineralMan]

42. Frankly, so did Kucinich.

In fact, he had some of the same supporters now supporting Senator Sanders. For whatever that's worth...

[seabeyond]

45. yes. true this. i forgot. nt

[Tarheel_Dem]

81. Same supporters. Same outcome.

[MineralMan]

82. Could be, I suppose. Different state, though.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

61. That's the plan and I believe she can pull it off but not without difficulty...

That's the plan and I believe she can pull it off but not without difficulty... Many African Americans would have walked over hot coals to vote for Barack Obama. It will be a challenge to recreate that enthusiasm.


I do believe her strong support for the ACA and relaxed immigration puts her in good stead with Latinos.

[Tarheel_Dem]

72. The moment Hillary accepted Obama's invite for Sec of State, all was forgiven & forgotten.

By putting the bitter primary behind them, and becoming part of a team, she helped supporters & the country to GET OVER IT. And the fact that she did it with such grace, endeared her to many of her former foes.

!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

85. This isn't "some of my best friends are black" posts but it is...

I lost everything in the Great Recession and my gf and I would have been homeless if it wasn't for my friend who was black. He was one of the most amazing people in the world. He joined the Army when he was seventeen and was awarded Bronze Stars In Korea and Nam... He was from Selma, Alabama so you know he saw bigotry first hand... Interestingly enough he said while things were far from perfect his family's relationship with white folks were mostly cordial. I asked him how he could serve in a military that was treating his people shabbily...He said he joined because he needed money and also because he believed in the promise of America...He served twenty years in the military and then another twenty years in the civilian military. Somewhere along the way he invested in a small community black owned bank and his investment turned into over one million dollars.

Him and his wife were good friends to my mom who I took care of because she was older and disabled...His wife told my mom that she was like a grandmother to her. I told Nate, her husband, that makes me your son...He would literally introduce me to folks as his son...When his brother died he chose me to go with him from his home in Orlando to Jacksonville to help him with the arrangements. His brother wanted to be buried in Army Blues so we went to a Army Surplus store in Jacksonville. Some parts of Jacksonville are more like South Georgia than they are Florida... I was in the store with Nate and his two nieces...The clerk didn't know if I was with them and asked me if I needed help...Nate said "that's my son". LOL


Any way I witnessed how torn they were during the 08 election between Barack and Hillary...It was sad that it was both their time at the same time...Hopefully HRC wins this time and this story has a happy ending.

[Tarheel_Dem]

93. What a terrific story. Having lived in the South, with brief relocations to Pittsburgh, most of....

my life, I can say that although racism exists, lifelong bonds have been formed with my white counterparts. You and I are living proof that there are people of goodwill across all demographics.


But for the entrance of Barack Obama in the '08 race, Hillary Clinton would be finishing up her second term, and Obama would have been announcing his intentions to run. There are no Barack Obama(s) waiting in the wings to run against Hillary. When Obama exploded onto the national stage in 2004, we knew he was destined to do big things someday. He was charismatic, an exceptional orator, and his lineage was like nothing we'd ever seen before in a president.

There's only one democrat in the country who can keep the WH in Democratic hands, and I think we both know who it is.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

102. He was incredible...

I met him while I was trying to trim a palm tree in my yard. I had no concept what I was doing... He saw me and took whatever the instrument I was using and completed the task in five minutes. One time the chute to my dryer was clogged...It was on the top of my roof... I told him I would call a service and have it cleaned...He insisted on going up on the roof and doing it himself...He's 76 years old...I said "your wife is going to kill us."


After my mom passed away my friend and I bundled her clothes to give to the Salvation Army. There were thirteen or so bundles...We drove from my home in Lake Mary to the Salvation Army in Casselberry; a thirty minute ride...He was like a dad to ne and I had a problem to tell him but I also had funny things to tell him so I asked him "do you want to hear the funny stuff or the serious stuff first?". He said "the funny stuff" so I spent the whole trip and back telling him funny stuff. When he got back home after an hour or so of talking about nothing he told me his brother died, the same brother we went up to Jacksonville to see a few days ago.

[sheshe2]

172. I posted that speech a short time ago, Taheel.

I remember watching him all those years ago. I was thunderstruck by his passion. Anyone listening knew, he was going places.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026644858

[Tarheel_Dem]

175. I get chills to this day she. I remember coming in to work the next day, and it was all anyone could

talk about. It was, without exception, the most magnificent introduction to a future president in my lifetime. He's had to weather many storms, but I think history will be much kinder than the present day.

[sheshe2]

87. I agree with you 100%, Tarheel.

That is one of my favorite images of Obama and Clinton, as is this~

[url=http://postimage.org/][img][/img][/url]

[Tarheel_Dem]

90. I love that picture. My favorite, however, will forever be the one where they welcomed home the....

caskets of those killed in Benghazi. When she reached out her hand to him, it was such a genuine moment, and I'll never forget it.

[seabeyond]

96. i agree with this also. nt

[lunamagica]

64. ITA. In every forum in Spanish I read Hillary is already seen as the next president

Even a great number of Cuban-Americans support her -which carries a lot of weight considering Rubio and Cruz

[MineralMan]

67. Thanks for your report.

My Spanish is not good enough to read forums in Spanish, I'm afraid. I'm OK with conversational stuff, but not fluent enough for complicated discussion.

What you say matches what I've been hearing, though.

[misterhighwasted]

125. I am so relieved to hear this news. 2016 cannot go to the GOP.

I hope they lose with such astonishing numbers that it breaks them forever.
Reasonable people know what is at stake.
Thanks for your post.

[freshwest]

239. All my hispanic friends in Texas love her. Many people have been quietly waiting for her. n/t

[TBF]

147. She definitely does - at least down here in Texas.

I'm not convinced that will throw the primaries her way, but it definitely is not insignificant.

Bernie is not as well known so he will have to make his positions known to these demographics - no doubt about it.

[uponit7771]

327. John Kerry Black vote 2004... nough said

[DemocratSinceBirth]

9. Bookmark this post

African American and Latinos represent thirty percent of Democratic primary voters. Hillary will get 90% of these votes... That's 27%... She will get at least 60% of the rest...That means she gets at least 70% of the primary vote.

[MaggieD]

11. Nice to see some....

Reality AND some math. Thanks!

[seabeyond]

13. i see clinton getting black and hispanic vote. i see sanders, youth, white, middle upper. sanders

has to get his out there.

and i see youth as my boys. educate and their surrounding in the panhandle of tx. diverse, higher education, higher income.

i hear hillary has a lot of that vote in other parts of the country.

i think we watch to see if sanders can get some of those numbers from clinton.

and i could be wrong. lol

[DemocratSinceBirth]

20. That's the irony...

Hillary's detractors suggest she's part of the elite but her strength comes from the most disadvantaged members of our party...

I respectfully disagree with you about young voters...She will do much better than Bernie among that group because of the strength of the Clinton brand.

[seabeyond]

22. yes the irony. that i am not allowed to say. here is the thing with the young vote... in my area.

we have a different kinda liberal in the west, and especially my west now. it goes to the liberal new mexico and utah and colorado.... kansas, so on.

az? i am not sure anymore. lol.

but the middle and upper really are focused more on what sanders is discussing. now.... new orleans (and what gov is doing to kansas school) are right there with clinton.

these dynamics are really interesting. my oldest, spending his university time in new orleans, is on the way home for the summer. i am really interested to see what he has to say, his peers here, and his peers in new orleans.

and ya... i was surprised the high number of youth supporting clinton, after sanders declared. so, i do not know. but, that is what he has to go after, i think.

[geek tragedy]

26. Same dynamic we had in NY State with Cuomo.

His primary opponent did best in affluent white areas, but Cuomo won by humungous margins amongst people of color.

Explanations include everything from name recognition to "we don't have the luxury of taking a risk in the general" thinking

[DemocratSinceBirth]

30. Hillary lost the nomination in 08 because she was hemorrhaging African American votes.

That's extraordinarily unlikely to happen again.

"we don't have the luxury of taking a risk in the general"

THIS

Working class and lower middle class folks are more concerned about table issues than ethereal notions like the 1%/99% divide. As I said in another thread there will be a negative relationship between education and income and support for HRC in the primaries. As education and income of the voters goes up her support will go down.

[seabeyond]

33. i also think with her experience over the last 8 yrs, we are going to see a different campaign. nt

[workinclasszero]

49. "Working class and lower middle class folks are more concerned about table issues"

You got that right. A president Cruz and a republican controlled Congress and SCOTUS would be an absolute menace to my family and myself.

I don't have the luxury of a fat bank account/401k or high paying job to fall back on when some rainbow farting leftist independent loses the election in a landslide to the teahaddists.

We are either going to win big with Hillary or lose big with Bernie. I can't afford Bernie, most democrats can't either.

[NYC_SKP]

75. "rainbow farting leftist independent" who will save your job and win the election.

Hillary, not so much.

[okasha]

224. SKP, do you have any support for this position

besides hope and an admirable loyalty to your candidate?

Because I can tell you right upfront that Senator Sanders--and I like him a lot--can't deny Texas to the Republicans.

Hillary can. She touches a nerve with people of color and even with conservative women. If she can turn Texas blue it's all over for the Republicans, right there. Finis. The Supreme Court will be protected. Women's and LGBT rights will be preserved.

We can't afford to take risks this time around. If we gamble and lose, we'll be immeasurably worse off than we are now, and there won't be another chance for improvement for a generation. Which assumes there will be anything left to save because environmental degradation will be allowed to proceed unhindered.

[NYC_SKP]

231. Right now it's Sanders. O'Malley may gain speed, it's early yet.

When the time comes, I hope we'll make the right choice.

I don't share the feeling that only she can beat the GOP, I think it's way too soon to tell how well others will do.

Naturally, she's had so much exposure, ran a close race once already, so she's going to poll well.

As it is primary season, I'm going to go all out for Sanders for now, then maybe Sanders and O'Malley, and possibly Warren should she change her mind.

After the primaries, it's a whole new ballgame to fight the GOP with what we get.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

76. I tend to agree...The data suggests Hillary will win but it's not a slam dunk...

Our nation is split almost right down the middle with our side having a slightly, slightly, slightly...larger side.

I look at politics as war by other means. It's a blood sport...I can't see think of any Democratic candidate in 016 I rather have as my leader in it.

[freshwest]

242. Don't hold back now! And I agree with you! Our voice needs to be heard. n/t

[freshwest]

241. You nailed it all right there. Those who have been dismissed are watching it play out. It's time!

[betterdemsonly]

21. I think Bernie will do well with Black Lives Matter voters

and union affiliated hispanics in California.

[seabeyond]

24. i will be really interested to watch blacklivesmatter. i question that. but all these are guesses,

i get that.

this is what i find fascinating about this particular primary.

[Tarheel_Dem]

36. "Black Lives Matter voters" are the black community & 87% of us favor Hillary. Just ask these guys.

Black America has already made it's choice, you just haven't accepted it yet.



And I have it on pretty good authority that another endorsement is on the way.

[seabeyond]

38. another thing we fail at, is actually listen to the black lives that surely do matter.

thank you for the well made point.

[betterdemsonly]

100. Oprah has been critical of black lives matter.

https://www.popularresistance.org/oprah-sharpton-attack-black-lives-matter-movement/ Celebrities aren't black lives matter.

Look I don't think black lives matter has much overlap with ofa, even if both are primarily black. The former is issue orientated. The latter is personality orientated. I don't think early polls matter much. I don't believe favorability says anything about enthusiasm. My bet is that a Clinton Bush election will be low turnout and that most Obama ethusiasts will be noshows.

[Tarheel_Dem]

114. FYI: Issues & personality aren't mutually exclusive. And I predict you're wrong. Try, as you may,

you won't drive any wedges between the black community & Black Lives Matter. President Obama is excoriated routinely, by some black activists, because he said something that pissed them off. They are the minority. But, at the end of the day, they still got his back. Same with Oprah. BET ON IT!

Although, 87% is not unanimous, that's as close as anyone is going to get to damn near universal approval in the modern day. And I'll go even further...Bernie Sanders won't even come close.

[betterdemsonly]

121. I think there is a class divide in the black community

like in the rest of America. I didn't create it, no matter how much you try to make it seem that way. Approval has nothing to do with ethusiasm. Early polls are lible to change and trash talking me won't change it if it does. He won't be running so whether they have his back or not doesn't mean anything vis a vis Hillary.

[Tarheel_Dem]

124. The most reliable Democratic constituency will have much to be enthused about. It's the young...

white college educated who are quite easily "disillusioned", and that's Bernie's constituency. "Name recognition"; "too early"; "Turd Way", etc. all add up to the same thing. Pre-emptive excuses for an inevitable loss.

[betterdemsonly]

131. I don't view myself as having much in common with Kim Kardashian so it is hard

for me to believe black lives matter feel much in common with her husband.

When you look at issues, who will they appreciate more? Someone who offers them free college or someone who offers them a bit of debt relief. Will they appreciate someone who outsources their jobs, then tells them to go to colleges they can't afford so the can pay the debt, or be losers forever? Or will they appreciate someone who preserves their working class jobs and makes it easy for them to improve from there, with free University education? Will tbey want someone who offers them a voucher for a conman run charter school or someone who is willing to fund their neighborhood school? There are so many things neoliberals like Hillary compare poorly on if your not rich. Bernie can beat Hillary with issue orientated movements, and that includes black lives matter.

I think they enjoyed Obama's success vicariously but that CAN'T transfer to Hillary, for obvious reasons.

[Tarheel_Dem]

138. It already transferred. 87% worth. You keep insinuating that "Black Lives Matter" is some behemoth

separate and apart from the black community at large. IT"S NOT! Let me explain something to you. Blacks are overwhelmingly affiliated with the Democratic Party. We are, by history, predisposed to the all inclusive Democratic platform. We are Democrats. Bernie Sanders is NOT. Hillary won't be dumped for someone who joined the party two minutes ago to take advantage of the infrastructure built by Democrats.

Black Lives Matter is pretty much an extension of the Civil Rights groups of yesteryear, many of whom are intimately involved in the movement. There may be a faction of this subgroup who will find another candidate more attractive, but that's a teeny tiny minority, comparatively speaking. But I'm just black, I probably don't know what I'm talking about.

[betterdemsonly]

149. No I am not. I just don't think OFA is the black community.

Nor do I think the civil rights movement has anything to do with Democrats. The Democrats in the South at that time were dixiecrats.

I am 47 have been a registered Dem since I was 18. Someone who joined it yesterday has just as much right as me to participate in a primary caucus, and is just as welcome.

[Tarheel_Dem]

153. Why are you conflating "OFA" & "the black community"? Is there some point to that?

OFA is the original Obama coalition, made up of every race, gender & sexual orientation under the sun. What's your point? And whatever point you're trying to make about the Civil Rights Movement and the Democratic Party is just waaaayyyy off. The two are as interwoven as rightwing fundamentalism and the GOP. And if you were a member of Democratic party for as long as you claim, you'd probably know that.

[betterdemsonly]

156. ok whatever

there were no dixiecrats in the 60s. Have fun.

[Tarheel_Dem]

160. WTF do the 60s have to do with 87% favorability among AA's for Hillary Clinton in 2016?

[1StrongBlackMan]

170. It's a variation of the "MLK was a Republican"/Byrd was a Democrat and a klansman" narrative ...

curious that it is coming from a Democrat since 18?

[Tarheel_Dem]

179. "Curious" indeed.

[okasha]

229. The President who jawboned the Civil Rights Act

and the Voting Rights Act through a reluctant Congress was a Democrat. It cost LBJ every atom of political clout he had.

If not for Vietnam, those two pieces of legislation would have earned him a place among our greatest Presidents.

[1StrongBlackMan]

169. Well ...

You did say it just above ... You're Black. What do you know about Black people/sentiment?

[1StrongBlackMan]

168. So YOU think something about groups ...

even though someone who lives in those groups tells you something different about those groups?

[1StrongBlackMan]

165. Say this again ...

Black Lives Matter is pretty much an extension of the Civil Rights groups of yesteryear, many of whom are intimately involved in the movement. There may be a faction of this subgroup who will find another candidate more attractive, but that's a teeny tiny minority, comparatively speaking.

especially, this part:

There may be a faction of this subgroup who will find another candidate more attractive, but that's a teeny tiny minority, comparatively speaking

As that holds true for the Democratic Party, as well.

[Tarheel_Dem]

173. Exactly. Don't you just love it when folks of another race try to explain "black folks" to us.

As a member of both the Democratic Party, and the Guilford County Chapter of the NAACP since my college days, I know for a fact that civil rights groups are intimately involved in Black Lives Matter. I don't need someone of another race to "school me" on such matters.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

192. He is offering pie in the sky except it is pie in the sky with a wrinkle...It's pie right here.

Black folks know there is no such thing as a free lunch, that the president is not going to give them free college, great jobs, and free health care...

That's why Malcolm X was so critical of the black preacher class; because they were promising pie in the sky and distracting them from their real condition.


That's what Bernie offers...They know his programs don't have a snow ball's chance in Hell of being enacted and his nomination would only result in a Republican presidential victory that makes their life worse...

Rich white liberal elites are playing with house money... Most African americans are playing with their own.

[1StrongBlackMan]

207. +1 ...

Finally a white guy that gets it!

Black folks know there is no such thing as a free lunch, that the president is not going to give them free college, great jobs, and free health care...

And, Black folks don't believe in the "American Dream" ... so there!

That's what Bernie offers...They know his programs don't have a snow ball's chance in Hell of being enacted

And as much as I like what he is saying ... we (all of those willing to acknowledge reality) have nearly 30 years of a legislative record to reflect upon ... most of his most celebrated votes were against stuff that passed and for stuff that failed ... and most of his legislation is stuff that never got out of committee.

For me ... that's not a lot to look forward to.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

218. Ever see the movie "Lakeview Terrace"

Samuel L Jackson plays this bad cop who harrases his interracial neighbors... There's a scene where the white guy who is married to the black woman is sitting in his car blasting his rap music... Jackson's character says " you can listen to this rap music all night but you can never be black." I thought that was hilarious but seriously if you listen to people you can develop a bond and have empathy for them...

A lot of people on this board remind me of Michael Stivic's character in "All In the Family" They are highly educated but their education is from a textbook and they never gets past the theory stage. There was an episode where two black guys break into their home and hold Archie, Gloria, Edith, and Michael hostage...It ended non violently because they identified with Edith because of her authenticity... While they were being hold hostage Michael says " I understand why you are doing this. I know the plight of the black man. It is because of your disadvantaged environment." the African American guy says how do you know that and Michael says " I learned it in my Sociology course." The back guy says "Lookie what we have here, a white liberaall..."

[1StrongBlackMan]

234. Yeah ... I liked that movie ...

I like most of Samuel L. Jackson's body of work ... and I told so, once when I ran into him at a golf course. He invited me to play a round with him after I told him I loved his role in The Long Kiss Goodnight and Black Snake Moan and asked him what the hell he was thinking in taking Snakes on a Plane?

I remember that episode of All in the Family; but I don't equate these DUers to Mike Stivic's character ... at least he thought he was doing the right thing for someone else. Nope, these DUers aren't doing anything for someone else; but rather, are trying to game others to do something for them ... and think they are smooth enough that others won't know.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

235. Jackson had so many great roles

Coach Carter-loved his disquisition on the N word
Django Unchained- When he read for Stephen's part he said he would become the most hated black man in America
Jungle Fever-where he played the crack addict and literally ululated
Pulp Fiction- His quote from Ezekiel
Goodfellas- he played the driver in the Lufthansa heist

[1StrongBlackMan]

260. Mannn ...

I'm gonna have to have a SLJ movie weekend!

Yes ... he brings something toevery role he takes. If you ever get a chance get the movie Rag Time he plays an unnamed character (his second film) but you just know he's gonna bust out.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

261. I love the scene where he first meets Django but I am afraid to post it here./NT

It's on youtube.

[1StrongBlackMan]

263. Yeah ... I know.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

264. We can watch the end

[1StrongBlackMan]

265. I must admit ...

(with head hanging low in shame) ... One of my favorite lines in that Movie is Jamie Fox's response to being recruited to work as a bounty hunter.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

270. It's just a movie...

Is that where he says he gets paid to kill white people?


The scene where he meets Stephen for the first time is probably one of my five favorite movie scenes...

[1StrongBlackMan]

271. Yep ...

that's the line ... "... What's not to like?!?"

Your going to make me pop the DVD in the DVD machine ... just to re-see that scene.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

272. "Where's my beautiful sister? "

The implication Calvin Candie is having sex with his sister is hilarious.

[1StrongBlackMan]

275. Okay. That does it ...

I'm headed out of town (to visit BabyGirl 1SBM). I'm taking the DVD with me to watch!

[betterdemsonly]

276. People who think education is a right are after a "free lunch?" Sounds like Rush Limbaugh

I wonder why so many Hillary supporters seem like they would be more at home on a republican messageboard?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

278. I would tell you what you could do with your ad hominem but I don't want to afoul...

I would tell you what you could do with your ad hominem but I don't want to run afoul of the Terms Of Service.


I will leave it to your fertile imagination to divine what I would like to tell you.


KISSES
DemocratSinceBirth

[seabeyond]

279. you want to reflect the discussion you jumped into, with this little fit? blackman talking basic

human rights. fuck. the right to exist. NOT be shot in the black. gays, the simple HUMAN right afforded ot the rest of us. women and girls life, and not being imprisoned because of their body.

jumping in here to call them republican?

are you gonna challenge them at being rw trolls now?

think this one thru.

were you just read 87% AA support clinton.

tell them what repugs they are

[1StrongBlackMan]

280. LOL ... Seriously? ...

DemocratSinceBirth has you pegged ... http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6708618

[JustAnotherGen]

155. I disagree on the class divide

1. Who CAN vote in the black community? Women
2. Regardless of our financial standing - we share the same fears and experiences.


Class means very little to black folks -

The break will come down to pro same sex marriage and pro choice. Those few who are so entrenched in being against those - vote Rupublican anyways.

And as your finances get more solid - you have more time to focus on the issues that impact your community.

Being affluent with an advanced degree won't prevent you being pulled over for driving while black in your own neighborhood. Ask 1stringblackman - he had an experience like this early September last year that he posted about in the AA group.

I'm not trying to give you a hard time - just asking you to proceed with caution re class being a divider in the black community.

[Tarheel_Dem]

162. "just asking you to proceed with caution re class being a divider in the black community."

Thank you. That "class divide" the poster speaks of exists within families, and at the end of the day, we still vote our hopes, dreams, and sometimes our fears. And that vote goes, overwhelmingly, to the Democratic Party.

[JustAnotherGen]

164. You are correct

It does exist in our families. And well - we all experience America in a unique way.

[Number23]

166. It's like that old joke - what do you call a black man with two PhDs? Nigger.

Class has never been for us the rallying battle cry that it's been for white people. We have always had to be more concerned with getting our basic rights and being able to live lives free from oppression and terror, even when we work tooth and nail and follow "the rules."

[JustAnotherGen]

176. So true

We've also observed a lot of it thrown at a man who earned everything he has accomplished for 8 years - and then with the déjà vu Emmett incidences -

We have to be concerned now more than ever.

Let's put it this way - the mouth foamers are angry. I worry for Jim Webb - because his wife will make him an easy target. They don't have it out of their system. Those folks will just pile on even more so.

I can't help feeling this way.im going to worry about her personal safety just as much as I do Michelle Obamas. And I think your husband and my husband know precisely where that comes from.

[Number23]

181. Exactly. You think my advanced degree and experience living in multiple countries means one damn

thing to certain people? The look at me and see BLACK which automatically lessens everything I say and feel. Then they probably see WOMAN. Then, depending on where I am, they see American.

And you're right -- look at how Obama has been treated by the left and right. He has worked his ass off, dealing with personal and emotional crap that most people couldn't imagine. His wife has as well. They have both worked their asses of, they are both intelligent, decent, hard working people who are regularly called every name under the sun by the right and a worthless Trojan Horse piece of shit by those on the "left." And black folks aren't supposed to see this and know exactly what this means?

[JustAnotherGen]

183. Well we do see it and we do know it

But we are supposed to let bygones be bygones. *sigh*

[1StrongBlackMan]

185. "Bygones" ...

shit no, we're supposed to be their allies!

[1StrongBlackMan]

182. Earlier in this thread someone asked about the polling numbers for ...

Bernie among Black folks ... and the response was it's too early. I found that curious sense every preference poll that I have participated in, asked my demography. So off to the google I went. I found nothing ... but what I did find was a 2014 interview of Bernie where he talked about race. His response gave me pause, and prompted me to write:

I think it would be a mistake for Bernie to ignore the African-American vote. And it would be an equally fatal mistake to think that lumping the African-American vote in with all other working class people, is a winning strategy for attracting the African-American vote.

[Tarheel_Dem]

184. Speak on it #23! I love how you just break it down to its natural essence. "Two PhDs". N***

You sound like my beloved and dearly departed grandmother. She was so concerned when I accepted my first job out of college, and she learned I would be the only AA in the office. She never imagined that her descendants could possibly work in an office without a mop & bucket.

As you said, "Class has never been for us the rallying battle cry that it's been for white people". So many of them never wanted to be associated with us, no matter what our class.

[1StrongBlackMan]

186. Well ...

"Class has never been for us the rallying battle cry that it's been for white people".

That's because class is their only battle. But sadly, the more I see, the more convinced I am that their Class "concern" will evaporate the moment they (personally) can afford to live in that gate community.

[Tarheel_Dem]

190. Class "concern" will evaporate the moment they (personally) can afford to live in that gate communit

Thanks to #23 for that most appropriate GIF. Y'all are preaching tonight.

[Number23]

187. "So many of them never wanted to be associated with us, no matter what our class."

Girl....

[Tarheel_Dem]

189. I love that gif. I'm gonna have to steal that.

[Jamaal510]

193. I haven't heard that one before.

I'll have to steal it sometime!

[Number23]

195. There's a thousand variations of it. It's a paraphrase of a Malcolm X comment

"Do you know what white racists call black Ph.D.'s?: 'Nigger!'?"

http://www.alexhaley.com/malcolm_x.htm

But that jokes applies to alot of stuff. What do you call a black man with a Ferrari? What do you call a black CEO? What do you call a black President of the United States?

Always the same answer. Which is one reason why the "class" issue has never divided black people the way it has others.

[kwassa]

204. well, you heard about the Google Maps problem when you put in the words ...

"nigger house" it would take you directly to the White House.

How things have changed. Not.

Google has apologised after searches which include the racist slur “nigger” were shown to find the White House in Google Maps.

Searches for “nigger house”, in a global view of the world, and for “nigger king”, when focused on in the Washington DC greater area, return with the home of the US president Barack Obama as either the primary search result or one of three.

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/may/20/google-apologises-racist-google-maps-white-house-search-results

[seabeyond]

206. then there is a group of our dems that just are not concerned with that. the man has money, so what

does he have to gripe about

on a democratic board. in 2015.

it is ALL about the $

[1StrongBlackMan]

177. Thank you ...

And as your finances get more solid - you have more time to focus on the issues that impact your community.

Yes ... and those affluent Black folks that distance themselves from poor Black folks ... also distance themselves political and tend to vote republican.

[JI7]

228. yes, Blacks, hispanics, and asians who vote republican usually do so because of religion

they tend to have the usual right wing leaning views on social issues . the good thing is these types among all 3 groups tend to be a small number so you still get a large majority that votes democratic.

[uponit7771]

328. Not when it comes to the police, not matter how rich blacks are harassed equally..even black cops

... feel harrased

[morningfog]

89. I don't disagree with your numbers, but they have to

Be done date by state to be relevant.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

94. She will garner over 90% of African American and Latino voters regardless of where they live...

I suspect Bernie, if he is still campaigning, will do well in areas where Democratic voters are more affluent and educated.

I can't break down a map precinct by precinct the way some political scientists can but , for instance in L A, i expect that while Bernie won't capture majorities in any area he will do a lot better, in say Santa Monica, Westwood, and Century City than he will do in Boyle Heights, Baldwin Hills, and Crenshaw.


Before I lived in CA I lived in FL. I don't see a lot of natural constituencies there for him.


We'll see...It's just my opinion though I believe it's a informed one...

[morningfog]

119. I guess the question is how much of an impact

this will have early in NH, IA, NV and CO. I think the African American population in SC would certainly make the analysis significant there.

It seems clear to me, at least at this point, that if Bernie were to have a serious shot at upsetting Hillary one of a few things must happen. Something significantly bad would have to happen to Hillary's campaign; something significantly great would have to happen for Bernie; or something would have to change and shape the narrative of the race.

I doubt Hillary will implode, but stranger things have happened. It is possible that some national or international event could occur that would give Bernie an opening, too.

But Bernie, in my opinion, will have to bank on the narrative of the race carrying him and play small ball. He can't afford a huge national campain at this point. He has to make his movement in the first few contests, start closing that gap so that there can at least be the momentum, rising star, horse race narrative.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

144. The more homogeneous the state the better Bernie's chances.

NV and CO are heterogeneous states.


I was thinking of historical parallels to Bernie's candidacy in our generation (1984-present) and which candidates occupied the same political if not ideological space as Bernie, i.e., an outsider... In 84 you had Hart, an outsider, who did quite well but he was an incredibly charismatic guy with a cowboy aura however he couldn't beat the insider Mondale because of his strength among traditional Democratic constituencies and it was probably even harder for Mondale because Jesse Jackson stripped him of a significant Democratic constituency, African Americans... The 88 race is a little fuzzy to me now... I just remember Dukakis and Jackson. In 1992 you had Tsongas running an outsider race and while he did well with elites he eventually got crushed by Clinton because of his appeal to more traditional Democratic voters... 00, the insider Gore crushes the outsider Bradley for roughly the same reasons his boss vanquished Tsongas. In O4 the insider Kerry beat the outsiders...In 08 you had a lot of insiders; Obama, Clinton, Dodd, and Richardson and Obama emerged victorious.


I enjoy our conversation.

[1StrongBlackMan]

188. Don't be so polite ...

The more homogeneous WHITE the state the better Bernie's chances BUT only in upsetting HRC.

[morningfog]

209. What are you suggesting?

[1StrongBlackMan]

215. I'm SAYING that ...

Bernie's appeal is young, above median incomed, educated whites. He has limited appeal to Black folks (of any income level), Hispanics (of any income level), and lower incomed LGBTs.

That's what I'm saying.

[MaggieD]

254. He has limited appeal to higher income LGBTs too

They are HRC all the way.

[1StrongBlackMan]

262. I, admittedly, have limited contact with higher incomed gay folks ...

but the lower incomed folks I work with aren't about Bernie, at this point.

[morningfog]

212. I always enjoy talking numbers and strategy.

And sharing perspectives.

[BainsBane]

10. Also the group least represented on this site

which is demographically far more homogeneous than the party or even US society at large.

The fact is African Americans and other people of color are the base of the Democratic party, not those who think the rest of Americans are too inferior to even be considered Democrats.

[seabeyond]

16. ya. i am now walking, that gay/black/women are one. that gives us greater numbers

Last edited Thu May 21, 2015, 02:18 PM - Edit history (1)

now... do the others want us or not. that is another perspective we will watch (we, as in me) over the next couple months.

[MineralMan]

18. Hispanic community leaders have declared that their votes

will elect the next President. They could be right.

And you're right. Those demographics are very poorly represented on DU.

[NCTraveler]

44. Statements like this are why this place is great.

It will change how I think about the base. It is so true.

"The fact is African Americans and other people of color are the base of the Democratic party, not those who think the rest of Americans are too inferior to even be considered Democrats."

We put ourselves in a bubble sometimes and don't look outside of it. The base here is a bunch of fairly well to do white people, myself included. Truly not representative of the strongest voting block percentage wise for progress in the country.

Thank you for that statement. It will change my thoughts going forward.

[1StrongBlackMan]

107. And one critical look at how African-Americans ...

are treated on this site, will tell you why the HRC "hate" does not/will not extend beyond the du screen.

[Number23]

109. Yep. And there were even black posters that didn't like Obama that were still run off or left

DU because of the nastiness directed towards black posters and the black community.

And as small as our numbers are, the number of Hispanics here is even smaller.

[Tarheel_Dem]

126. +1. I don't know how many times it must be said but "DU is not the real world". Not even close.

[Number23]

135. DU ain't even the same DU it was a few years ago! I'm surprised we are even allowed to type

the words REAL WORLD on this web site it's so far removed from any and everything real.

[Tarheel_Dem]

140. "DU ain't even the same DU it was a few years ago!" Not since the Paulertarians took over.

[Number23]

142. Girl, they are flat out not even pretending anymore. There's another thread in GD right now

as we speak with an OP talking about how Iowa Democrats are "fleeing" Hillary. The source of this OP is a self-described "libertarian scripture based web site" that also features other articles about how liberals are pushing pedophilia on quivering American masses.

And I'm sure you'll be as shocked as I am by the folks supporting that dreck! Like I said, not even pretending anymore.

[Tarheel_Dem]

148. That doesn't shock me at all; nothing I read here actually shocks me anymore. The handful of....

black posters left at this site will just have to hunker down, and pray for an end to the madness. It's insinuated, from a very unlikely source, that blacks only like her because we know her name. Can you believe that? We don't know our own minds is the intended message. I've got news, I know my mind, and I'm not as easily "disillusioned" as some among us.

I was not a Hillary supporter in '08, but she's gone out of her way to make amends for the actions of her campaign team, and some of her more distasteful supporters. I believe in redemption. I recognize that some of my fellow Obama supporters have reservations, and they're certainly entitled, but just like my support for Obama, my support for Hillary is my own.

[Number23]

154. I understand and I respect that 100%. For the most part, I find most of the anti-Hillary stuff

posted here to be laughably stupid. I mean, I wish I could be more polite and call it "hyperbole" and "dishonest" but really, it's just laughably stupid -- along with those other two descriptors as well, of course.

The latest theme tossed around is that people who post polls that show her with 65, 75, 85% support from liberals, liberal Democrats and Democrats are "bullying." We heard that same shit when Lozocollo used to plop Obama's approval rating among Dems into the midst of regularly scheduled feverish feeding frenzies from folks here about how horrible he was, how no Democrats supported him and what a fascist corpo-Dem he was.

So yeah, the "she's only favorable because people know her" meme is being tossed around and by the usual "high quality" posters here. But it doesn't fly and as has been pointed out, I am sick and tired of people basically TELLING black people owhy we think/feel/act certain ways. It never seems to occur to people that maybe eighty FREAKING seven percent of black people support Hillary because (gasp!) they actually just LIKE her.

[freshwest]

246. It feels like a board I left where the Cons kept insisting black people voted for PBO because they

were intellectually inferior and lazy! Of course, they said a woman could never be POTUS! Think of a woman having PMS and her hand on the red button! Oh, no, it would be TEOTW! I just had to leave, I couldn't take wingnut science anymore.



See what big teeth I have? I'm hungry.

[1StrongBlackMan]

198. And we are told that Candidate Obama ...

"Tricked" us/people into voting for him ... twice!

[freshwest]

243. 'Too inferior to even be considered Democrats.' Hard words, but it feels that way at times. n/t

[hrmjustin]

17. Very happy to hear this.

[betterdemsonly]

19. Where were they in 2010 and 2014? We lost states where their turnout was decisive and

they just didn't turn out for 3 conservative Hillary like white women. All these Hillary like white women were in Southern states. Tennessee, North Carolina, and Georgia. All those women trumpeted Hillary love. We lost all of those elections badly because people who voted Obama in 2008 were no shows. Viewing her favorably doesn't mean they are motivated to vote for her the way the were for Obama.

Hispanic voters didn't give a damn about Hillary like Wendy Davis and she lost more badly than the last Democratic candidate for Governor. 50% of hispanic men, voted for Abbot.

[MineralMan]

23. They sat at home, like so many Democrats did.

We turn out in lousy numbers for mid-term elections. Even in Minnesota, the 2014 turnout was below average. We lost our state House to the Republicans due to that. Too bad, too.

[betterdemsonly]

32. Al Franken won in wipeout which was predicted. The Hillary clones in the Southern States all lost

Hagan could probably have won. She was the incumbent, but the turnout doomed her.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

35. I don't think you can lay the fact...

I don't think you can lay the fact that there are only three Democratic senators (Kane, Warner, and Nelson) from the states that comprise The Old Confederacy at the feet of Hillary Clinton. That is a trend that has been developing for fifty years.

[betterdemsonly]

43. She was the incumbent, elected for the first time in 2008 with Obama on the ticket

6 years later, in 2014 Obama's not on the ticket and she loses badly in a low turnout election with the ppp polls showing it a dead heat.

Remember Incumbents have a 90% chance of getting reelected. http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/house-and-senate-incumbent-re-election-rates-top-90/

[DemocratSinceBirth]

50. Precisely...

General elections historically have larger and consequently more diverse electorates, ergo:







If Obama was on the ballot even though he lost NC by a hair in 012 Hagen probably wins because of a bigger turnout and she would have likely squeezed out some ticket splitters.


Same with my former home state...Skeletor Scott never beats Crist in a general election year. He was the beneficiary of a smaller and more homogeneous electorate.

[betterdemsonly]

60. Iowa and Wisconsin were close elections with high turnouts. The dems still lost

but it was not turnout related like it was in North Carolina. So it isn't true all off year elections have low turnout. It is true in red states Obama won, which were lost in 2010 and 2014.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

69. There was still a substantial drop off between general and mid term participation

IA 012 (General Election) voter participation was 73.28%


http://sos.iowa.gov/elections/pdf/2012/general/turnout.pdf

IA 014 ( Mid Term Election)voter participation was 53.31%


http://sos.iowa.gov/elections/pdf/2014/general/turnout.pdf

That's still a 28% drop off...

You can repeat the exercise for WI. I suspect we would see similar results.

[Tarheel_Dem]

86. Exactly. It could be argued that even Elizabeth Warren owes her Senate seat to Obama's....

2012 victory in MA. In a state the president won by 23 points, she only won by 8. If the president had not been on the ticket for that race, we might be saying Senator Brown right now.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

105. I never understood ticket splitting at an emotional level./NT

[MineralMan]

37. Yes, he did. He has become a popular Senator in MN.

Turnout was still dismal, though. But Franken has proven himself to Minnesota voters, so he won handily, after almost losing in 2008. He's just plain doing a good job, and was rewarded for that.

I can't speak for other states. I don't follow those races closely.

[JI7]

48. yes jerry brown and other dems had huge wins but turnout

Was very low in california

[DemocratSinceBirth]

54. I am in Cali... Even Repukes call it automatic Democratic.../NT

[JI7]

58. yes.it's always important to consider the political makeup

Of states and districts. Jerry Brown wasnt going to get that type of win in Texas .

[DemocratSinceBirth]

71. I believe he won with around 59% of the vote.

He's a remarkably effective and pragmatic governor...I don't believe he's some progressive warrior though...

[JustAnotherGen]

152. You left off Kentucky

You had even a sniff of running against Obama as a Democrat (Grimes did this blatantly) folks weren't going to support you.

[workinclasszero]

34. Another day, another poll showing the vast majority of democrats love Hillary

Yay!


Oh except here on the Bernie Underground of course!

[NCTraveler]

39. Not interested in the Sanders comparison.

Also not surprised at the percent who view her favorably. She better not take that support for granted. It is a voting block that has tons of people we need to give a reason to GOTV. It is clear we have dismissed, or at least minimized, the seriousness of the issues surrounding many AA's and the specific issues the deal with on a daily basis.

[JI7]

46. black support moved from Clinton to Obama after he won iowa

The important point is that it did not mean they no longer liked Clinton.

[SidDithers]

51. DU rec...nt

Sid

[Mr Dixon]

55. IMO

After reading all these comments I’m pretty sure the AA vote is going to Hillary, I would have voted for her against Obama early on because I didn’t know him or his politics plus the PUMA’s got real nasty which pissed off the AA community Just saying. This time around Hillary is leading and I don’t think she can be stopped, and that is a good thing, let a woman lead and beanie can be the VP. If these too can meet in the middle on policy we will be in good shape, what can’t happen is a repeat of the PUMA madness, shitting on the other candidate that will not help anyone.


Signed an underrepresented Black Man

[seabeyond]

59. sanders would be an interesting choice for clinton. nt

[Robbins]

63. are you f-ing kidding

A true liberal with clinton.that won't happen.She will pick another corporist as VP.

AA's should all know the militazaion of police will continue with eather her or republicans in white house.

Obama may be black but he has done nothing to speak out against police abuses or combat it.He says we should respect police and his justice department says here in MO darren wilson did nothing wrong.

[Mr Dixon]

83. IMO

I think you’re under the impression that the DU represents the general public, it does not. Do you not remember the slogan “he is a guy I can have a beer with” That is the mentality we are dealing with, not a well-educated political juggernaut as is prevalent on the DU. People are going to vote with their guts the GOP doesn’t have a lock on this thought process. I know plenty of DEM’s that will vote on name recognition alone and I’m sure you do to. Obama did what he could as will Clinton and even Bernie if elected, but no one is going to be able to carry water for all the DU issues and or solutions to what ails the country. AA, Woman and most other minorities are going to Vote for Hillary, the race was tight when Obama won it was not a cake walk. Shall we just agree to disagree and have a nice weekend.

[Number23]

134. It appears you may have missed this.

The DOJ slams the Ferguson police department http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2015/03/ferguson-as-a-criminal-conspiracy-against-its-black-residents-michael-brown-department-of-justice-report/386887/

Obama calls police violence a crisis http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2015/04/28/obama_baltimore_press_conference_president_s_comments_on_police_and_poor.html

Obama to ban military weapons http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/obama-ban-military-weapons-sent-local-police-departments

Please do not deign to tell black people what is and should be important to us or what we "should" know, especially when you could not make it more clear that you have no facts to fall back on yourself. Just fucking don't do it.

[Cha]

227. Your head is in the sand if you think the President has not spoken out against police abuses. Stop

spreading misinformation.

[lovemydog]

296. Everything you have said here about President Obama

is false. I hope you take the time to read the links in some of the other replies here. And stop spreading misinformation.

[Tarheel_Dem]

120. Hillary will need a much younger & much more exciting VP than Bernie. Just sayin'.

[TheKentuckian]

122. VP doesn't have to be met in the middle or listened to at all Why sacrifice one of our best Senators

to be a hood ornament and head funeral attender?

As far as the black vote goes, the percentage is consistently very strong, it is the amount of turnout that is crucial in making the difference.

[JustAnotherGen]

256. Plus 1000

We have a chance at the Senate in 2016 - I wouldn't want to lose Sanders if someone else takes the nomination.

[Scurrilous]

62. Good news.

K & R

[Stellar]

73. If she want to keep the AA community in her corner...

she'd better ensure she keeps their interest like she does the Latino community. Bill de Blasio definitely got their attention. Black Lives Matter

Blacks played a HUGE role 2008 primaries and this will likely continue in 2016.

How does Sanders appeal to African Americans? He's from a tiny homogeneous state with few blacks.

Can Sanders appeal to African Americans the way Hillary and Obama do?

I think this will determine whether or not Sanders is competitive.

There will be a watchful eye out on all candidates that have their interest at heart and that goes for Sanders and Warren and anybody else that want to be competitive, believe me!

[seabeyond]

98. i agree. nt

[BlackClouds]

77. Sanders doesn't know much about racial issues especially Black ones.

His only answer to a whole host of civil rights and racial inequality issues is just tackling income inequality and the safety net. Of course anybody who thinks deeply about these issues should know that problems would remain, even if everybody had a job. He has to study up and make his case but this is one of his bigger weaknesses. I can tell he doesn't know much about Blacks, and the inner city and may appear hesitant in that area.

Hillary has been smart (imo) recently and has realized she cannot whitewash her campaign and win. Her challenge is to not appear to be cynical and calculating. There's leverage here for Black voters in that the Democratic nominee needs a large turnout if Dems going to win, and a whitewashed campaign isn't going to energize those voters.

[TheKentuckian]

127. Bernie was in the trenches on Civil Rights, why doesn't he know about inequality issues?

Bernie was supporting gay marriage when some that supposedly know more were still mouthing "one man, one woman" whether they personally believed such or not.

Bernie has a top flight record on women's issues as well.

I think you are misinformed, uninformed, judging a book by its cover rather than content, or plain full of it.

[m-lekktor]

150. Bernie grew up in Brooklyn.

He might know something about inner cities if he grew up in one. Doesn't sound like you know much about him.

[BrotherIvan]

247. He organized for civil rights and attended the March on Washington

He knows quite a lot about it. He was THERE.

[1StrongBlackMan]

277. Few would question Bernie's position on civil rights (vis-a-vis, PoC) ...

He, like all liberals, supports them.

But after looking into it further, I think Bernie is going to lose out of a lot of the Black vote because he (like many on DU) has misinterpreted/hasn't listened to what Black folks have been saying.

He seems to be of the (DU) "civil rights justice will follow economic justice" vein ... that is a losing argument for a majority of the Black electorate/community, as our lived experience tells us ... having more money doesn't make those daily indignities any easier to fathom.

[BrotherIvan]

282. Honestly, what will Hillary Clinton do for the African American community?

I'd really like to know because I followed the subthread where black posters on this site were saying that Hillary is so much better on civil rights. But her campaign is shaping up to be an ill-fitting mishmash of mimicry. Just like Obama, sound like a liberal, govern like a conservative moderate. It is who she has proven to be by her record. We'll be told that she can't get things done because there is too much obstruction and that's just "reality". And oops, if it takes any money away from her donor's pockets, it's dead on arrival. Honestly, I think judging from her record that she can claim to be strong on women's rights, but nowhere do I see her strong support of civil rights. She's talking about incarceration, but that is nothing but rhetoric for the campaign, flipping on her earlier "tough lady on crime" stance.

http://www.attn.com/stories/1092/2016-candidates-private-prisons

Though the private prison industry swelled around the time she was FLOTUS, Clinton has remained notably quiet on the subject in the run-up to formally announcing her candidacy. It was only last year, in what many called her “strongest comments yet” regarding criminal justice, that she addressed the “hard truths” of racial discrimination and the need for criminal justice reform. “[D]espite all the progress we’ve made together, African-Americans, and most particularly, African-American men, are still more likely to be stopped and searched by police, charged with crimes, and sentenced to longer prison terms,” she said at the Massachusetts conference for Women. Americans don’t break more laws than other nations, she said. “It is because we have allowed our criminal justice system to get out of balance. And I personally hope that these tragedies give us the opportunity to come together as a nation to find our balance again.”

Her speech was a marked departure from a 1994 Annual Women in Policing address, when she declared that “we need more police, we need more and tougher prison sentences for repeat offenders…we need more prisons to keep violent offenders for as long as it takes to keep them off the streets.”

So where is this stellar record on civil rights and rights for African Americans that a couple of statements? I'm really trying to find out because I don't see it.

She's trying to be the pro immigrant candidate but there's a flop too

What I'm trying to ask is how can we be sure she will fight for ANY position, for any civil rights, for any improvements in the lives of African Americans and people of color? Do you think she will piss off all her working class white voters by saying cops are out of control? Remember the dustup over what Obama said about guns and how she jumped all over it that she just loved her some guns. And let's not forget all the racist shit from her 2008 campaign. But now she's the black community's champion?

[1StrongBlackMan]

289. I would be the wrong person to ask ....

about what HRC will or won't do for Black folks.

[DCBob]

78. Any numbers on Sanders and AA voters?

I suspect he doesn't appeal much to that voter block.

[NYC_SKP]

88. Too soon to tell, really. And not only with AA, but with all demographics.

He's a relatively unknown.

Any numbers are going to change, we just don't know.

[1StrongBlackMan]

108. Which is interesting ...

I'm pretty sure someone out there has thought to ask that question.

I think it would be a mistake for Bernie to ignore the African-American vote. And it would be an equally fatal mistake to think that lumping the African-American vote in with all other working class people, is a winning strategy for attracting the African-American vote.

[Tarheel_Dem]

129. He doesn't appeal to me in the slightest, and here's the major reason:

Sanders: Would be 'good' for Obama to face primary challenge

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/173201-sanders-says-it-would-be-good-for-obama-to-face-primary-challenge

Bernie wasn't invited inside the president's inner circle, so Bernie wanted him primaried in his re-election bid. I'll never forgive that.

[AtomicKitten]

79. Better hope they don't remember what happened in 2008.

A sampling of Clinton surrogates' greatest hits (against Obama):

* Andrew Cuomo: Obama shucking and jiving.
* Sid Blumenthal: Racist emails.
* Billy Shaheen: Obama, drug dealer.
* Geraldine Ferraro: If Obama was white he wouldn't be in this position.
* Bob Kerrey: Obama, Muslim.

ELECTION 2008: Hillary Struggles Against Sexism But Regularly Plays Race Card
In the face of raw, media-driven misogyny, Clinton resorts to playing the race card and loses some women's support in the process.

http://www.alternet.org/story/84150/hillary_struggles_against_sexism_but_regularly_plays_race_card

[1StrongBlackMan]

112. I'm sure folks will be along to "remind" us ...

as if we might have forgotten.

[AtomicKitten]

137. you're welcome

[ucrdem]

80. Great news.

[sheshe2]

97. Thanks Cali, great news.

[JaneyVee]

104. K&R!

[Number23]

110. I'se Negra and I view Clinton (mostly) favorably. I still don't know if that means she needs to be

President though. But I won't scream and gnash if she is.

[1StrongBlackMan]

113. Behave! ... LOL. N/T

[NYC_SKP]

118. Ha! I might gnash but I probably won't scream.

Nobody wants a Republican and, to many, Clinton is the only democrat running.

High numbers don't surprise me.

As others come out and announce, I think those numbers can only fall.

[Cali_Democrat]

139. Huh? You won't scream and gnash if she wins?

Clearly you need a stern talking to from Bernie's overwhelmingly white supporters.

You just don't know what's good for you.

They will set you straight.

[Number23]

141. "Clearly you need a stern talking to from Bernie's overwhelmingly white supporters."

Isn't that the whole purpose of this entire web site now???

[leftofcool]

151. Bernie Underground?

[Number23]

158. Yep. So "underground" that an OP with 200 recs is seen as the gospel truth!

Never mind that on other web sites I visit, individual comments will get six times that number of recs and still be wrong as hell.

[Number23]

236. And who the fuck are these "good DUers" that I supposedly "attacked" with this post??!

Last edited Fri May 22, 2015, 01:30 AM - Edit history (1)

God, this place is so full of shit right now. Edit: Just saw the butthurt downthread and have a pretty good idea whose failed alert it was.

I hope this is remembered the next time someone is accused of "bullying" because they posted Hillary's poll numbers.

[JustAnotherGen]

163. Oh my!

[Number23]

167. Five brownie points if you know what the "I'se Negra!" quote is from!!

[JustAnotherGen]

171. I'm thinking Halle Berry got dragged for that

In Queen.

But Langston Hughes used the I'se in one of my favorite poems of his.

[Number23]

178. And of course, my girl wins

[1StrongBlackMan]

221. See! I had my hand raised, way in the back of the classroom,

jumping up and down, saying pick me, teacher, pick me! But you picked the teacher's pet ... again!

[Number23]

238. JAG got the brownies but you get the gold star!

And watch your back! Someone's ever so delicate and frail fee fees were hurt because someone dared to note that so far, large majorities of Sanders' supporters are white!!! Oh my GOD!!! Noting this is now a "Divisive, unwarranted attack on a substantial number of good DUers" apparently.

The horror!!1

[Rex]

115. She has a lot of support outside of DU.

Every Dem I know in RL cannot wait to vote for her.

[L0oniX]

157. Enjoy your dream while you can.

[JaneyVee]

159. You know who else had a dream?

[great white snark]

161. Well then I am most certainly in the best of company.

[Bonobo]

174. Yeah, if "Huh? Oh yeah, sure." counts as a "yes". nt

[peace13]

191. Another fine example of Americans voting...

...against their best interests.

[Number23]

196. And your post is a fine example of the "liberal" line of thinking that many minorities

want no part in.

[peace13]

208. And...

....the one percent, our finest minority will be the beneficiaries once again! My original comment was not against minorities but uninformed voters. They come in all sizes, colors and backgrounds.

[seabeyond]

210. pretty brazen to suggest if one does not vote sanders, they are uninformed.

[peace13]

214. I did not even mention Sanders.

I think this OP was about Clinton if I read properly.

[seabeyond]

216. seriously? that is your answer and you are sticking to it? maybe you do think anyone not on

board are not only uniformed, but stupid also.

[peace13]

217. Have a nice evening.

You are so deep and I am a simple observer. I have no dog in this fight yet. My best to you and yours.

[BainsBane]

292. right, because who should we support. Ted Cruz?

Is that your guy? Is he the people's candidate?

[Number23]

240. The post is about Hillary's massive support in the black community

You come in to chime about "people voting against their interests" and you comment was NOT about minorities??

Yeah, um. Okay.

[Cha]

248. She's insulting minorities as voting against their self interests. Like they're not informed voters

Sounds like she wanted to take an ignorant dig at Hillary and insulted the huge populace of Black supporters who are behind her.

"Another fine example of Americans voting... against their best interests."

And, then tries to wiggle out of it.

[peace13]

257. No wiggling.

No digging. People vote against their best interests time and again. Fact. All kinds of people.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

258. We're not talking about some people but 87% of a major sub group. That's a lot...

If you could do an experiment and give the posters that are making that argument a truth serum you would discover that they truly believe they are smarter than almost an entire group of people that came to a different conclusion.

It's the liberal corollary to the argument that African American who vote almost universally Democrat choose to live on a "Democratic plantation."

It's elitism, it's paternalism, and it's not very becoming.

[peace13]

266. The fact that we don't really have elections anymore adds to the problem.

In the past the primary sorted out who would be the candidate. Now any discussion about candidates becomes a threat to someone.

As far as the survey goes I would make the same comment if the survey had been about old white people, or young women, gay people and pretty much most groups. My feelings are pretty consistent. If you are not part of the one percent, Clinton is a poor choice for you. War, war, war, and with it brings the bilking of everyday Americans of all colors and ages. This encompasses the money for financing and the lives needed for sacrifice. She has worked for Walmart and the rest to bring Main Street America to its knees.

There is nothing elite about my view.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

268. So

So 87% of Democrats have a favorable opinion of someone who "has worked for Walmart and the rest to bring Main Street America to its knees."







Something is wrong with this image. They can only be stupid, woefully misinformed, willfully ignorant, or just maybe of another opinion.

[peace13]

281. Enjoy the day!

[Cha]

285. And, in denial of denial.

[BainsBane]

293. And not about Sanders

unfucking real. Arrogance and blatant deception. That sort of attitude displayed by far too many makes it virtually impossible to support Sanders. They are his greatest liability.

[seabeyond]

300. They are his greatest liability.

i patiently say, over and over and over.

no one wants to listen.

i agree

[BainsBane]

291. Bullshit

And a weak and transparent cover. The subject of the OP makes clear who you were talking about. The attitude you and others express in this thread is precisely why you will always be politically irrelevant. You believe you are more informed. Your comments that supporting Clinton equates with siding with the 1 percent proves otherwise. You all have created a fictional narrative that has nothing to do with Clinton herself but rather says a great deal about those who perpetrate it. Secondly, the Sanders crowd has worked diligently to exclude as many people from consideration as Democrats as possible. When you take that sort of attitude, pretending to be superior without any justification, coupled with a bourgeois elitism, no one outside your little in crowd is going to want to have a thing to do with you.

When posters here have raised concerns about the open longing to return to an idealized past when most of us were denied basic rights, they have been met with rude hostility. The entire ethos advanced is a narrow class- and race based agenda in which some assume they speak for everyone else but steadfastly refuse to as much as listen to their concerns.

If anyone is responsible for Sanders' poor standing among people of color, the poor, and the working class, it is the insufferable elitism on the part of his supporters. We should all forget our concerns in order to promote the great and noble struggle of the 10 percent vs. the 1 percent.

Why you think anyone would view people who behave that was as different from the 1 percent or bankers, I have no idea. They show at least as much contempt for our lives and interests as they do, as is demonstrated by your assumption that anyone who disagrees with you must be uninformed.

[Tarheel_Dem]

298. Wow! "Uninformed Voters". That kind of abuse is bound to have us lining up for miles.

NOT!

[craigmatic]

197. I don't know why the Clintons have done nothing for black people. As a matter of fact they got more

black people locked up because of that 3 strikes law.

[TM99]

205. Not only that but they

ran at times a very racist campaign against Obama in 2008. Just on these forums were discussions about it but now all of a sudden Clinton is the champion of POC everywhere?

Well, I remember, and I don't buy it!

[craigmatic]

283. me neither

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

253. Must you menton that inconvenient truth?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

199. I see some of the Bernie folks are trying to convince the African American folks on this board ...

I see some of the Bernie folks are trying to convince the African American folks on this board the Clintons are crypto-racists...


May I humbly suggest to you that dog won't hunt...


Do you know what my favorite HRC story is...

Do you know who her college roommate at tony Wellesley College was?

Grant Hill's mom...

[DURHAM D]

211. Just a few weeks ago I was talking with a friend

about Janet Hill and Hillary being roommates. Myself and my friend both went to the same public university back in the early 60s. Housing was assigned by the Dean of Women's office and minority and white students were not allowed to room together, no exceptions. They even went a step further and built an annex separate from the regular dorms for all minority students. We could not remember if the men were also segregated.

Anyway, we assumed that Hillary received a ration of shit from some of the other women at Wellsley because that was the dark ages.

Like you, this is my favorite Hillary story and if anyone else is reading here I am hoping this note will help contextualize the times. btw - In case anyone is wondering, this was not in the south.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

222. This is a small world...

I didn't think Wellesley was coed at the time. I thought it was an elite woman's college.

...


I used to live in Orlando and worked out at the RDV Sportsplex which is owned by Richard DeVos, owner of the Magic. Before the Magic built their new arena they trained there... My buddy, Luke, who is African American, was a lifeguard there...He struck up a friendship with Grant Hill...It was from him that I learned that Grant Hill owns one of the largest collections of African American art in the world.

[DURHAM D]

223. I think I confused you.

I did not attend Wellesley. I was talking about the public university that I (and my friend) attended at the approximate same time frame that Hillary and Janet were in college.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

226. I understood that....

Just your connection to Janet Hill and my second connection to Grant...

He highlighted a Kerry rally in Amway Arena during the 04 election.

[m-lekktor]

213. no worse than the passive-aggressive "Bernies all white supporters"

comments upthread.

[Tarheel_Dem]

249. Simply stating the fact that Bernie's supporters are "all white" is passive aggressive?

[seveneyes]

203. Race should never be a monolith

The Human Equation demands it.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

225. Yes...

But considering the last Democratic president to garner a majority of the white vote was Lyndon Baines Johnson I thank God African Americans are almost monolithically Democratic.

[Cha]

237. I think who ever wins the nom is going to want the Obama coalition.. it's mighty and it's

strong. And, African Americans are a huge part of that.. I am so grateful for them.. and, I'm quite sure they know what Hillary stands for than mere "name recognition"..


Early voting in Florida-2012


Voters in Cleveland, Ohio, wait in line to cast early votes in November 2012.

Mahalo Cali~

[workinclasszero]

274. Thank God for these democratic voters

If it wasn't for these folks, we would all be surviving in the koch bros fiefdom.

[Cha]

286. Exactly, and then to have posters on here saying they're voting against their interests if they're

for Hillary.. like they're not well informed.

Stupid insult.

[workinclasszero]

287. Very stupid

Only people I see uninformed voting are working people of any color voting for republicans who actually hate them and screw them every chance they get.

[Cha]

288. Precisely, workingclasszero!

[MaggieD]

255. This may be the best thread I've ever read....

.... On DU.

[Orsino]

273. Clinton has undeniable name recognition, nostalgia appeal and star power.

Sanders' progressive agenda will have to match that, and he will have to muster a lot of charisma as well.

Can Sanders appeal to people? Not until they get to know him and what he has stood for. I hope they get that chance, and that the party doesn't just obey the money.

[lovemydog]

290. This is a really interesting thread.

A lot of very thoughtful comments. Great reading them.

As for the patronizing ones telling people how they should think or feel. Or telling people they are voting against their own interests. Fuck off.

[BainsBane]

294. Incredible, isn't it?

And they wonder why they can't attract supporters when they behave that way?

[1StrongBlackMan]

309. Oh ... You really think that is their aim? ...

I think many would be all in for Boo Boo D. Fool would he announce because it's not who they are FOR ... it's all about who they oppose. Cost be damned!

[Cha]

297. oooohhhhh..

[Tarheel_Dem]

299. +1

[bigwillq]

295. Hillary just may be the third black president.

[BainsBane]

301. I suggest we revisit this thread in the summer of 2016

for first-hand evidence of what went wrong with Sanders candidacy. I wonder if he realizes he has supporters who feel so entitled that they not only talk down to and demean African American voters, but insist a white man knows more about civil rights than a woman or an African American?

People cannot claim to advance the concerns of the majority when they refuse to consider that the majority even has the ability to make their own political decisions. When Sanders supporters go around flexing their class and race entitlement, it becomes impossible to believe they are concerned about anyone but themselves. There is a very ugly politics of exclusion going on that is reactionary to the core. Is is destined for failure, just as the GOP's politics of exclusion is destined for failure. It simply isn't possible to treat the most reliable Democratic voters as lesser and hope to succeed electorally. I now see that his failure is inevitable, not because of Clinton, money, or the media but because of supporters like those posting in this thread.

[seabeyond]

302. i get it all in hypocrisy. insist i hate sanders(only supportive of him). upper middle white so not

concerned with poor black, (sanders will help me way more), as i defend social justice.

while they state they will not vote clinton and let all us lose.

totally blows my mind.

i have it bookmarked to come back to over the months to come. it is so telling

[lovemydog]

307. I wonder if any of them read these threads and learn a bit.

I hope so!

I'm looking forward to hearing all the democratic candidates speak with the Obama coalition.

[1StrongBlackMan]

310. When one is smarter than, one does not have to read ...

let alone, learn from one's lesser.

[lovemydog]

315. +1

[Bonobo]

311. And yet here you are saying that a fantastically wealthy white woman

knows as much as an African American about civil rights and that a Jewish man from Brooklyn just doesn't know shit about it.

Yep, Jews don't know shit about civil rights. Right.

Furthermore, you are the FIRST person to point out that DU has no influence on real politics when it suits you, but here you are saying the DU's Sanders supporters can turn the entire tide of the election.

L.O.Fucking L.

[1StrongBlackMan]

312. Nope! Go back and read through the thread ...

No one has said HRC knows as much as an African American about civil rights (or anything close to that); but, there has been at least three posters, in this thread, that HAVE said the Bernie does ... and that doesn't include the posters that have said (in another thread) that Bernie knows more about civil rights than President Obama.

[Bonobo]

313. Those would be absurd statements I admit. nt

[BainsBane]

318. No, that is not what I am saying

I am saying African Americans know their own interests better than self-entitled white folk who treat them as less. I'm saying people who continually show they think they and not African Americans are fit to decide what is good for them piss off many African Americans, which you would know if you ever read the posts in that group. But then few here do because they simply do not care what anyone but themselves thinks or experiences. The issue isn't Clinton vs. Sanders. That is merely the pretext for the efforts to exclude the majority from the party and the body politic.

I guess the influence would be if you all go out in to communities and act like you do here, and if his other supporters behave similarly. Regardless, one has to wonder why people who purport to support a candidate would devote themselves to treating other Democrats, particularly the most reliable Democratic voters, with contempt.

I know that the vitriol and vapid attacks on Clinton here on DU have convinced me to consider her, something I never did in 2008. I also know that you all appear to be working day and night to turn people off voting for Sanders. When someone asks about plans or his legislative accomplishments, they are met with ridicule. One would think they are deliberately seeking to undermine his candidacy, but I think ultimately their political values are so wedded to their own privilege, they can't imagine that anyone but their own select group has any concerns or views that could possibly matter.

Ultimately, I think the entire notion of vesting so much in a single individual is a profoundly conservative and vapid approach to social and economic change. You for example, rail against Clinton and blame her for violence and death but bend over backward to justify Japanese human rights abuses in WWII. Your response to the death of a dictator is to threaten to hit a woman. We are told that isn't real violence, even though it's the kind of violence that touches and takes more lives than war. Others claim to oppose war while promoting the internal war of gun violence in the US that has claimed over 1.4 million lives since 1968. Many here claim to resent corporations but spend all their time attacking ordinary Democrats, often less privileged than themselves. I see a huge chasm between stated values and actions.

[Bonobo]

320. "I know that the vitriol and vapid attacks on Clinton here

on DU have convinced me to consider Clinton."

You will have to forgive me for thinking that a piss-poor way of determining who to vote for.

[joshcryer]

329. I don't agree with those posters.

And I think they do Sanders a disservice. I think it is just people trying to score hurtful points on an anonymous internet message board.

[BainsBane]

330. Yes. I agree. nt

[karynnj]

314. I bet you didn't complain when Bill Clinton, a Governor from a rather small state was nominated

Not to mention, his small state ranked in the bottom 10 on things like education, healthcare, etc - unlike Vermont, which small and rural as it is, is in the top 10.

I guess I could start a poll - should the country try to be more like Vermont OR Arkansas? Assume you are offered a free flight and expenses to spend a week in either place? -- but attacking Bernie because he represents Vermont is ridiculous.

As to bias - I wonder if the problem is that you are biased against the NE.

This is silly because Clinton is VERY VERY likely to win the nomination. Attacking entire states - especially the wonderful state of Vermont, which has a fantastic environmental record and education record, is not likely to convince anyone.

The fact is that - just as Lieberman being on the ticket raised the % of Jews that for the Democratic just a little, the % of African Americans voting for the Democratic ticket was only slightly higher in 2008 - because it was very high for Gore and Kerry, white men of privilege. Bernie was a SNCC organizer in college. Why do you think HRC is better connected. By the way, Bernie grew up in Brooklyn -- HRC in a white suburb of Chicago. HRC spoke of a pastor introducing her to the writings of Martin Luther King. Seems BOTH cared about the issue, but Sanders was the activist one.

[1StrongBlackMan]

316. Is this ...

The fact is that - just as Lieberman being on the ticket raised the % of Jews that for the Democratic just a little, the % of African Americans voting for the Democratic ticket was only slightly higher in 2008 - because it was very high for Gore and Kerry,

Supposition or fact? (actually, the more I read the above, the less I understand the point you are trying to make)

The Jewish (Democratic) vote percentage ticked up 1% in 2000 from 1996 and fell 3% in 2004. https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/US-Israel/jewvote.html

The African-American (Democratic) vote in 2008 "ticked up 7% in 2008(95%) over 2004 (88%). http://www.ropercenter.uconn.edu/polls/us-elections/how-groups-voted/how-groups-voted-2008/versus 88% in 2004. And
6% points (when one is over 85%) is all the percentage in the world!

And, that doesn't even address the causation matter ... unless you have a source that makes the tie between Liebermann being on the ticket and increased Jewish vote, the matter no more settled than ... say ... asserting that the Liebermann increase was due to the leap year effect.

Bernie was a SNCC organizer in college. Why do you think HRC is better connected.

Because the African=American vote is already there?

By the way, Bernie grew up in Brooklyn -- HRC in a white suburb of Chicago.

Do you really think the Madison section of Brooklyn, NY (Now called Crown Heights) was any more integrated in the 1940s and 1950s, than the suburb of Chicago that HRC grew up? Think again ... Or, better study demographic history of NY neighborhoods.

[akbacchus_BC]

317. I think Blacks prefer Democrats as opposed to conservatives!

Blacks have always voted for Democrats. Under conservatives, who knows if the KKK will come back?

[uponit7771]

323. John Kerry Black vote 2004... nough said