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Mon May 25, 2015, 02:29 PM

Cluster Bombs Are Not Good For Children, Hillary

An important post from 2008:

Cluster bombs are not good for children, Hillary.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x345179

RECOMMEND THE WHOLE ARTICLE AT: http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/03/13/7655 /

....

On September 6, 2006, a Senate bill–a simple amendment to ban the use of cluster bombs in civilian areas–presented Senator Clinton with a timely opportunity to protect the lives of children throughout the world.

The cluster bomb is one of the most hated and heinous weapons in modern war, and its primary victims are children.

Senator Obama voted for the amendment to ban cluster bombs. Senator Clinton, however, voted with the Republicans to kill the humanitarian bill, an amendment in accord with the Geneva Conventions, which already prohibit the use of indiscriminate weapons in populated areas.

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Reply Cluster Bombs Are Not Good For Children, Hillary (Original post)
woo me with science May 2015 OP
cantbeserious May 2015 #1
Tierra_y_Libertad May 2015 #2
InAbLuEsTaTe May 2015 #8
Oktober May 2015 #48
AgingAmerican May 2015 #106
libdem4life May 2015 #3
NYC_SKP May 2015 #4
InAbLuEsTaTe May 2015 #7
kristopher May 2015 #15
840high May 2015 #18
woo me with science May 2015 #21
Scuba May 2015 #41
reddread May 2015 #91
L0oniX May 2015 #14
LanternWaste May 2015 #61
NYC_SKP May 2015 #65
reddread May 2015 #101
nationalize the fed May 2015 #5
polly7 May 2015 #6
woo me with science May 2015 #17
R B Garr May 2015 #20
Dragonfli May 2015 #9
reddread May 2015 #10
JEB May 2015 #11
swilton May 2015 #12
rhett o rick May 2015 #29
Thespian2 May 2015 #13
Still In Wisconsin May 2015 #16
bbgrunt May 2015 #19
Jesus Malverde May 2015 #22
woo me with science May 2015 #23
Bonobo May 2015 #24
awoke_in_2003 May 2015 #25
NuclearDem May 2015 #26
Agschmid May 2015 #27
cali May 2015 #42
Agschmid May 2015 #57
Agschmid May 2015 #28
rhett o rick May 2015 #30
Agschmid May 2015 #33
rhett o rick May 2015 #89
Agschmid May 2015 #90
reddread May 2015 #98
Agschmid May 2015 #100
reddread May 2015 #102
Agschmid May 2015 #104
reddread May 2015 #108
Agschmid May 2015 #110
reddread May 2015 #112
Agschmid May 2015 #113
Romulox May 2015 #31
Agschmid May 2015 #32
Romulox May 2015 #34
Agschmid May 2015 #35
Romulox May 2015 #36
Agschmid May 2015 #37
cali May 2015 #45
Agschmid May 2015 #55
MaggieD May 2015 #38
cali May 2015 #46
MaggieD May 2015 #56
polly7 May 2015 #58
MaggieD May 2015 #59
polly7 May 2015 #62
MaggieD May 2015 #63
polly7 May 2015 #64
MaggieD May 2015 #66
polly7 May 2015 #67
MaggieD May 2015 #69
polly7 May 2015 #70
LineLineLineLineLineLineLineReply .
Bonobo May 2015 #80
reddread May 2015 #68
MaggieD May 2015 #71
reddread May 2015 #72
polly7 May 2015 #75
reddread May 2015 #76
polly7 May 2015 #92
MaggieD May 2015 #81
reddread May 2015 #82
MaggieD May 2015 #84
LineLineLineLineLineLineLineLineLineLineReply .
reddread May 2015 #87
polly7 May 2015 #93
MaggieD May 2015 #94
polly7 May 2015 #95
MaggieD May 2015 #96
polly7 May 2015 #103
MaggieD May 2015 #107
polly7 May 2015 #111
MaggieD May 2015 #114
reddread May 2015 #105
polly7 May 2015 #73
polly7 May 2015 #74
cali May 2015 #86
MaggieD May 2015 #88
cali May 2015 #97
MaggieD May 2015 #99
Tierra_y_Libertad May 2015 #83
MaggieD May 2015 #85
polly7 May 2015 #47
reddread May 2015 #49
Scootaloo May 2015 #54
L0oniX May 2015 #77
reddread May 2015 #79
Oilwellian May 2015 #39
MaggieD May 2015 #40
Scuba May 2015 #43
polly7 May 2015 #44
morningfog May 2015 #50
L0oniX May 2015 #78
leveymg May 2015 #53
treestar May 2015 #51
polly7 May 2015 #60
n2doc May 2015 #52
workinclasszero May 2015 #109
MaggieD May 2015 #115
Man from Pickens May 2015 #116
reddread May 2015 #117

Response to woo me with science (Original post)

Mon May 25, 2015, 02:50 PM

1. What's More Important - Profits For Bomb Makers - Or The Safety Of Children

Seems we know the answer for some.

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Response to woo me with science (Original post)

Mon May 25, 2015, 03:08 PM

2. Maybe the polls will tell her to "evolve".....again.

 

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Response to Tierra_y_Libertad (Reply #2)

Mon May 25, 2015, 03:33 PM

8. Thats why Hillary's hired hundreds of advisors & pollsters, to tell her what positions will give her the best chance to win these nomination. It's just smart politics.

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Response to InAbLuEsTaTe (Reply #8)

Tue May 26, 2015, 06:18 AM

48. It also means you can't believe a word out of her mouth...

 

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Response to InAbLuEsTaTe (Reply #8)

Tue May 26, 2015, 10:14 AM

106. People have to tell her what to believe?

 

It took hundreds of people to tell her that cluster bombs are bad for children? Hmmm. Does she need a focus group to decide whether plutonium is radioactive?

She should be guided by principles, not polls.

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Response to woo me with science (Original post)

Mon May 25, 2015, 03:20 PM

3. Remember, she's still "Listening" mostly. This is inexcusable.

 

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Response to woo me with science (Original post)

Mon May 25, 2015, 03:24 PM

4. Hillary wants to prove a woman can be president (as long as her husband is president first).

 

If, and it's unlikely, Hillary becomes president it will be kind of a shallow victory.

Her win would, if it happened, be largely because of her visibility and name recognition, not because of her merits.

Now a Warren win, that would be quite another matter.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #4)

Mon May 25, 2015, 03:29 PM

7. I still think Elizabeth is gonna jump in the race. (Got my fingas crossed.) Watch, you'll see.

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Response to InAbLuEsTaTe (Reply #7)

Mon May 25, 2015, 04:52 PM

15. Sanders/Warren '16 ? O'Malley / Warren '16 ? nt

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Response to kristopher (Reply #15)

Mon May 25, 2015, 05:25 PM

18. I like the way you think.

 

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Response to 840high (Reply #18)

Mon May 25, 2015, 06:55 PM

21. I still say we need Bernie.


He is the only candidate telling the truth about the oligarchy.

That is why I believe the PTB would stop at nothing, and I mean nothing, to marginalize and if necessary end his candidacy.

Elizabeth Warren's message on economics is important and welcome. But even her policy agenda does not clearly challenge the wars and the secret government/surveillance state/police state that are dismantling democracy in this nation.

We don't just need to be more economically comfortable within an authoritarian state. We need restoration of our democracy and our Bill of Rights.

We need reform of our elections. We need restoration of our civil liberties. We need an end to the surveillance state and the militarization of our police forces, and the private prison industry, and the endless wars for profit.

And we don't need splitting of the vote for these things.






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Response to woo me with science (Reply #21)

Tue May 26, 2015, 04:14 AM

41. +1

 

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Response to woo me with science (Reply #21)

Tue May 26, 2015, 09:59 AM

91. yep

 

and the folks who fall behind him here and in congress will be the new American Revolution.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #4)

Mon May 25, 2015, 04:43 PM

14. Luv yer sig line

 

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #4)

Tue May 26, 2015, 09:00 AM

61. You of course, have objective evidence, yes?

 

"Her win would, if it happened, be largely because of her visibility and name recognition, not because of her merits...."

You of course, have relevant and objective evidence to support that conclusion, yes?

Or was that merely another bit of melodrama added as a place-filler until something of substance may be found...?

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Response to LanternWaste (Reply #61)

Tue May 26, 2015, 09:08 AM

65. Could she have become NY Senator if not for her name recognition?

 

Is First Lady a qualification other than being famous for having been one?

You want relevant and objective evidence?

Were I to conduct a study, write a book, or anything else you would not accept it.

The thing speaks for itself.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #65)

Tue May 26, 2015, 10:09 AM

101. mind you, if you wrote a thesis disrespecting a seminal community organizer...

 

it would be unspeakable.

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Response to woo me with science (Original post)

Mon May 25, 2015, 03:25 PM

5. "I think that is a very hard choice, but the price, we think, the price is worth it."

Leslie Stahl: "We have heard that half a million children have died. I mean, that is more children than died in Hiroshima. And, you know, is the price worth it?"

Rodham-Clinton's mentor, the First Female Secretary of State Madeleine Albright then said:

"I think that is a very hard choice, but the price, we think, the price is worth it."



The United States has been involved in and assisted in the overthrow of foreign governments (more recently termed "regime change" without the overt use of U.S. military force. Often, such operations are tasked to the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA).

1 During the Cold War

1.1 Syria 1949
1.2 Iran 1953
1.3 Guatemala 1954
1.4 Tibet 1955–70s
1.5 Indonesia 1958
1.6 Cuba 1959
1.7 Iraq 1960–63
1.8 Democratic Republic of the Congo 1960–65
1.9 Dominican Republic 1961
1.10 South Vietnam 1963
1.11 Brazil 1964
1.12 Chile 1970–73
1.13 Afghanistan 1979–89
1.14 Turkey 1980
1.15 Poland 1980–89
1.16 Nicaragua 1981–90
1.16.1 Destablization through CIA assets
1.16.2 Arming the Contras

2 Since the end of the Cold War

2.1 Iraq 1992–96
2.2 Venezuela 2002
2.3 Iran 2005–present



US Secretaries of State finish burying the latest victim of "Regime Change"

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Response to nationalize the fed (Reply #5)

Mon May 25, 2015, 03:29 PM

6. +1 nt.

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Response to nationalize the fed (Reply #5)

Mon May 25, 2015, 05:24 PM

17. Thank you.



There is too much papering over, minimization, of what her candidacy *really* represents.

We can't afford more of this. Humanity can't afford more of this.

Enough is enough.

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Response to nationalize the fed (Reply #5)

Mon May 25, 2015, 05:52 PM

20. Did you post a 20-year-old video of Madeleine Albright by mistake?

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Response to woo me with science (Original post)

Mon May 25, 2015, 03:55 PM

9. There is a theory that a a female candidate must appear very, very tough and hawkish

to be able to ascent in politics at the national level. So you see, she HAS to do things and vote for things to prove her toughness in order to help all those children she wants to help.

She has to promote things that kill the children in order to save them.
There is also one important thing that we often forget, in the end such things don't really matter, there is only one thing that matters and it's all about...

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Response to woo me with science (Original post)

Mon May 25, 2015, 04:00 PM

10. it takes an army to raze a village

 

this is just another very good explanation for the lopsided support she lacks.

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Response to woo me with science (Original post)

Mon May 25, 2015, 04:18 PM

11. Where's the pro cluster bomb contingent?

 

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Response to woo me with science (Original post)

Mon May 25, 2015, 04:19 PM

12. Cluster Bombs, Depleted Uranium

 

have devastated Iraq....Thanks Hillary!

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Response to swilton (Reply #12)

Mon May 25, 2015, 11:47 PM

29. Don't forget white phosphorus munitions. nm

 

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Response to woo me with science (Original post)

Mon May 25, 2015, 04:35 PM

13. K & R !!!

Excellent article. If people read the article from Common Dreams, they will understand why I have never liked either Clinton...and yes, I did have to vote for him...lesser of two evils, I thought...

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Response to woo me with science (Original post)

Mon May 25, 2015, 05:11 PM

16. I will vote for Hillary if she is the nominee,

 

but I just can't get excited about her. I want a better choice.

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Response to woo me with science (Original post)

Mon May 25, 2015, 05:27 PM

19. thank you woo. How easy it is to forget that which is morally repugnant.

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Response to woo me with science (Original post)

Mon May 25, 2015, 07:24 PM

22. American made cluster bombs are currently being dropped

On civilian areas in Yemen. Disgusting really.

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Response to Jesus Malverde (Reply #22)

Mon May 25, 2015, 08:58 PM

23. +1

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Response to woo me with science (Original post)

Mon May 25, 2015, 09:08 PM

24. Just another FOX NEWS link, no doubt!

This is surely the result of trick editing!

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Response to woo me with science (Original post)

Mon May 25, 2015, 10:52 PM

25. And the truly heinous ones

 

are the ones that are set up to have half the clusters explode on contact, and half on a time delay. That way, when people come to treat the wounded they get hit in the second blast. America is a barbaric nation.

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Response to woo me with science (Original post)

Mon May 25, 2015, 11:01 PM

26. Guns aren't good for kids either.

 

Someone should tell Sanders that.

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Response to woo me with science (Original post)

Mon May 25, 2015, 11:09 PM

27. Since Common dreams doesn't have many facts... here is some more information.

Grouped By Vote Position

YEAs ---30
Akaka (D-HI) Baucus (D-MT) Bingaman (D-NM) Boxer (D-CA) Byrd (D-WV) Cantwell (D-WA)
Carper (D-DE) Conrad (D-ND) Dayton (D-MN) Dorgan (D-ND) Durbin (D-IL) Feingold (D-WI)
Feinstein (D-CA) Harkin (D-IA) Jeffords (I-VT) Johnson (D-SD) Kennedy (D-MA) Kerry (D-MA)
Kohl (D-WI) Leahy (D-VT) Levin (D-MI) Menendez (D-NJ) Mikulski (D-MD) Murray (D-WA)
Obama (D-IL) Reed (D-RI) Reid (D-NV) Sarbanes (D-MD) Stabenow (D-MI) Wyden (D-OR)

NAYs ---70
Alexander (R-TN) Allard (R-CO) Allen (R-VA) Bayh (D-IN) Bennett (R-UT) Biden (D-DE)
Bond (R-MO) Brownback (R-KS) Bunning (R-KY) Burns (R-MT) Burr (R-NC) Chafee (R-RI)
Chambliss (R-GA) Clinton (D-NY) Coburn (R-OK) Cochran (R-MS) Coleman (R-MN)
Collins (R-ME) Cornyn (R-TX) Craig (R-ID) Crapo (R-ID) DeMint (R-SC) DeWine (R-OH)
Dodd (D-CT) Dole (R-NC) Domenici (R-NM) Ensign (R-NV) Enzi (R-WY) Frist (R-TN)
Graham (R-SC) Grassley (R-IA) Gregg (R-NH) Hagel (R-NE) Hatch (R-UT) Hutchison (R-TX)
Inhofe (R-OK) Inouye (D-HI) Isakson (R-GA) Kyl (R-AZ) Landrieu (D-LA) Lautenberg (D-NJ)
Lieberman (D-CT) Lincoln (D-AR) Lott (R-MS) Lugar (R-IN) Martinez (R-FL) McCain (R-AZ)
McConnell (R-KY) Murkowski (R-AK) Nelson (D-FL) Nelson (D-NE) Pryor (D-AR) Roberts (R-KS)
Rockefeller (D-WV) Salazar (D-CO) Santorum (R-PA) Schumer (D-NY) Sessions (R-AL)
Shelby (R-AL) Smith (R-OR) Snowe (R-ME) Specter (R-PA) Stevens (R-AK) Sununu (R-NH)
Talent (R-MO) Thomas (R-WY) Thune (R-SD) Vitter (R-LA) Voinovich (R-OH) Warner (R-VA)


And the information on the bills & amendments:

https://www.congress.gov/amendment/109th-congress/senate-amendment/4882/text

Amendment in question:

SA 4882. Mrs. FEINSTEIN (for herself and Mr. LEAHY) submitted an amend- ment intended to be proposed by her to the bill H.R. 5631, making appropria- tions for the Department of Defense for the fiscal year ending September 30, 2007, and for other purposes; as follows:
At the end of title VIII, add the following:
SEC. 8109. No funds appropriated or other- wise made available by this Act my be obli- gated or expended to acquire, utilize, sell, or transfer any cluster munition unless the rules of engagement applicable to the cluster munition ensure that the cluster munition will not be used in or near any concentrated population of civilians, whether permanent or temporary, including inhabited parts of cities or villages, camps or columns of refu- gees or evacuees, or camps or groups of no- mads.

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Response to Agschmid (Reply #27)

Tue May 26, 2015, 04:17 AM

42. As amendments go, that's pretty clear.

 

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Response to cali (Reply #42)

Tue May 26, 2015, 08:53 AM

57. Yes.

Would have been nice to have that information in the article.

There are also some othe amendments to the bill, it was a good read please check out the link. A large chunk of the bill seems to be about wildlife preserve, and reclamation.

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Response to woo me with science (Original post)

Mon May 25, 2015, 11:17 PM

28. Common Dreams... isn't always such a good source.

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Response to Agschmid (Reply #28)

Mon May 25, 2015, 11:48 PM

30. And what are good sources? nm

 

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #30)

Mon May 25, 2015, 11:55 PM

33. One that when talking about a specific Senate bill, mentions which Senate bill it is.

Not much to ask Rhett.

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Response to Agschmid (Reply #33)

Tue May 26, 2015, 09:57 AM

89. Seriously, which sources are on your "approved" list? NBC, ABC, CNN ?? nm

 

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #89)

Tue May 26, 2015, 09:59 AM

90. Don't know, don't keep one.

But when I see one that isn't quite up to snuff I point it out.

You think it made sense for the author to not even include the bill number?

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Response to Agschmid (Reply #90)

Tue May 26, 2015, 10:08 AM

98. maybe they knew about google, etc?

 

i would love to see the "approved sources" list myself.
I suspect it is hard to nail down, yet includes the unregulated cable outfits who are free to lie.
in fact their right to do so has been guaranteed..

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Response to reddread (Reply #98)

Tue May 26, 2015, 10:09 AM

100. I don't have an approved sources list. And there isn't one so cut the BS.

But I can think critically, and make my own decisions. I also can tell when a source doesn't have what I would consider important information.

[font color="red"]Again I am NOT debating the argument of the article just the manner in which it was written. [/font]

And I have yet to hear from someone that think it was a good decision for the OP article to not include any information about the bill being discussed.

Have you read the bill/amendment yet?

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Response to Agschmid (Reply #100)

Tue May 26, 2015, 10:11 AM

102. post partum editor wanted

 

or maybe not?
isnt it lucky you can fix it in this mix?

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Response to reddread (Reply #102)

Tue May 26, 2015, 10:12 AM

104. At least I'm willing to ask the question and challenge assertions.

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Response to Agschmid (Reply #104)

Tue May 26, 2015, 10:17 AM

108. are you suggesting Hillary's support for cluster bomb freedom was nuanced?

 

or just that a fully footnoted description of the legislation at hand was lacking?

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Response to reddread (Reply #108)

Tue May 26, 2015, 10:21 AM

110. I'll just repost my previous post as it appears maybe you didn't read it...



And I'll ask again, did you read the bill/amendment (I linked to it in the other thread)? Once you have I'll be happy to discuss, until then I'll wait.

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Response to Agschmid (Reply #110)

Tue May 26, 2015, 10:23 AM

112. sounds like I did

 

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Response to reddread (Reply #112)

Tue May 26, 2015, 10:23 AM

113. Nah, but clearly this conversation is about to devolve. I'm out.

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Response to Agschmid (Reply #28)

Mon May 25, 2015, 11:50 PM

31. Lame deflection. The underlying facts are uncontested. nt

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Response to Romulox (Reply #31)

Mon May 25, 2015, 11:54 PM

32. It's not a deflection I'm a Bernie supporter but Common Dreams doesn't even tell you which bill.

IMO, a good source would have had this information. Instead I had to find it a check out what the other amendments were.

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Response to Agschmid (Reply #32)

Mon May 25, 2015, 11:55 PM

34. LOL at all the "I'm a Bernie supporter, but..." posters. Thanks for your concern. nt

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Response to Romulox (Reply #34)

Mon May 25, 2015, 11:55 PM

35. LOL at the people okay with a source which lacks any citations, and real information.

Good to know you care.

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Response to Agschmid (Reply #35)

Mon May 25, 2015, 11:57 PM

36. *Still* deflecting, *still* not contesting underlying facts. nt

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Response to Romulox (Reply #36)

Mon May 25, 2015, 11:58 PM

37. It's not a deflection.

[font color="red"]I am not contesting ANY facts. [/font]

I am asking for more information, what the hell is wrong with that?

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Response to Agschmid (Reply #28)

Tue May 26, 2015, 04:19 AM

45. What makes you say that? Got any specific cases to illustrate your claim?

 

Or is it just a vague sense that tells you that it "isn't always such a good source"? And as compared to what? What do you consider good sources?

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Response to cali (Reply #45)

Tue May 26, 2015, 08:51 AM

55. I posted it above.

I'll be happy to reiterate it...

The article mentions a bill and amendment introduced in the senate. The article makes no mention of what that bill is, just gives you a date.

If you are going to write an article about a specific bill that bill should be named.

Again I am not saying this didn't happen just saying this journalism was/is a bit sloppy.

If you can't see that, you've got blinders on.

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Response to woo me with science (Original post)

Tue May 26, 2015, 12:34 AM

38. Should we give up our nukes too?

 

And just hope the rest of the world does, too?

As of March 2015, at least 62 countries have stockpiles of cluster munitions.

Algeria
Angola
Azerbaijan
Bahrain
Belarus
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Brazil
Bulgaria
China
Croatia
Cuba
Egypt
Estonia
Eritrea
Ethiopia
Finland
France
Georgia
Germany
Greece
Guinea
Guinea-Bissau
India
Indonesia
Israel
Italy
Jordan
Kazakhstan
North Korea
South Korea
Kuwait
Libya
Mongolia
Morocco
Netherlands
Nigeria
Oman
Pakistan
Peru
Poland
Romania
Russia
Saudi Arabia
Serbia
Singapore
Slovakia
South Africa[106]
Spain
Sudan
Sweden
Switzerland
Syria
Turkey
Republic of China
Turkmenistan
Uganda
Ukraine
United Arab Emirates
United States
Uzbekistan
Yemen
Zimbabwe

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #38)

Tue May 26, 2015, 04:22 AM

46. holy truthiness, batman! Talk about crude conflation.

 

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Response to cali (Reply #46)

Tue May 26, 2015, 08:52 AM

56. Conflation of what?

 

Do 62 other countries have cluster bombs too or don't they? War sucks. But we are the world's police and we aren't going to give up weapons that the rest of the world still has.

SMH.

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #56)

Tue May 26, 2015, 08:53 AM

58. You're the world's 'police'?

Bull fucking shit.

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Response to polly7 (Reply #58)

Tue May 26, 2015, 08:56 AM

59. WE - The U.S. - are the world's police

 

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #59)

Tue May 26, 2015, 09:01 AM

62. WRONG.

The world doesn't need a policeman that destroyes nations at whim and based on lies, overthrows gov'ts and causes millions of completely unnecessary and otherwise avoidable deaths, mutilations, homelessness, poverty, mass migrations, leaves behind DU and other waste that will go on deforming and killing for decades - cluster bombs that blow little childrens limbs off, etc. etc. etc. All while proclaiming the right to do so because of some trumped up piece of shit charge. Over and over and over. It never ends. But I guess when you're the world's largest weapons dealer and make trillions off war - it doesn't make sense not to get people to use them and then go in and claim to be 'keeping peace', right?

FUCK THAT SHIT. It may make you feel good to call yourself it, but it hasn't been true for decades (actually, it never was), and only right-wingers like to pretend illegal wars of aggression and 'interventions' to benefit the MIC, 1% and corporations that they're trying to control the world with are 'policing' anyone but those audacious enough to sit on recources - and especially those who use them to benefit their own citizen and keep out the foreign vultures.

Sick and tired of seeing it.

And believe me, most of the world doesn't see 'you' as the world's policeman. Talk about fucking arrogance.

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Response to polly7 (Reply #62)

Tue May 26, 2015, 09:05 AM

63. Well the world and NATO and the UN would

 

Differ with you on that.

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #63)

Tue May 26, 2015, 09:06 AM

64. LMAO.

Seriously. That's about all I can do with garbage claims like this. It's pathetic.

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Response to polly7 (Reply #64)

Tue May 26, 2015, 09:09 AM

66. Go to google and search the phrase

 

"united states world police" - that will keep you busy for awhile.

Sorry, you appear to be the last to know.

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #66)

Tue May 26, 2015, 09:11 AM

67. Nah ........ I just have to look at histories of wars around the world and who started them

and benefited from them, and who is currently killing more people and causing the killing of more people than anyone else has even threatened to in modern times.

Truth - sorry you don't like it. But don't make stupid claims if it bothers you.

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Response to polly7 (Reply #67)

Tue May 26, 2015, 09:16 AM

69. Ok stay in denial - whatever

 

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #69)

Tue May 26, 2015, 09:16 AM

70. LOL. WEAK. nt.

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Response to polly7 (Reply #62)

Tue May 26, 2015, 09:41 AM

80. .

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #59)

Tue May 26, 2015, 09:14 AM

68. I agree with your analogy

 

just as those cops who kill brown people with impunity inside our borders.
and you are ok with this, at least overseas?

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Response to reddread (Reply #68)

Tue May 26, 2015, 09:28 AM

71. I didn't make an analogy

 

I'm simply stating facts. Both our allies and enemies have cluster bombs. Lots of them.

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #71)

Tue May 26, 2015, 09:29 AM

72. where did they get them?

 

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Response to reddread (Reply #72)

Tue May 26, 2015, 09:33 AM

75. Good question! And why would anyone sell such horrible bombs to anyone in the

first place?

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Response to polly7 (Reply #75)

Tue May 26, 2015, 09:35 AM

76. same answer to both questions

 

the trillionaire arms dealers who back "serious" candidates.

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Response to reddread (Reply #76)

Tue May 26, 2015, 09:59 AM

92. +100000000000000000 nt.

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Response to reddread (Reply #72)

Tue May 26, 2015, 09:42 AM

81. They are made in China, South Korea, Singapore, and the U.S.

 

That's what I find when I search. What is your point? You think if we got rid of them they would just go away? They wouldn't.

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #81)

Tue May 26, 2015, 09:43 AM

82. follow the money

 

or do they sell them on Amazon?

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Response to reddread (Reply #82)

Tue May 26, 2015, 09:49 AM

84. Is that your new gambit

 

Now that you've realized you're wrong?

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #84)

Tue May 26, 2015, 09:52 AM

87. .

 

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #84)

Tue May 26, 2015, 10:00 AM

93. Your 'gambit' is so fucking pathetic it's laughable. nt.

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Response to polly7 (Reply #93)

Tue May 26, 2015, 10:01 AM

94. How dare I live in reality land, huh?

 

LOL! I know that's a terrible sin here.

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #94)

Tue May 26, 2015, 10:02 AM

95. Reality in 'your' mind isn't reality for anyone but you.

I think that's your problem. You seem very upset that it's not everyone's? It's not a terrible sin, it's just pathetic.

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Response to polly7 (Reply #95)

Tue May 26, 2015, 10:06 AM

96. Not upset at all

 

I just enjoy pointing out reality to the radical left.

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #96)

Tue May 26, 2015, 10:11 AM

103. No, you just really enjoy posting right-wing shit and ignoring the effects of ugly war

and weapons against those least able to fight back.

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Response to polly7 (Reply #103)

Tue May 26, 2015, 10:16 AM

107. Reality has a liberal bias - usually

 

Unless you're talking about the radical left.

It's reality that we are the world's police. Good or bad. That's reality. I'm shocked that ANYONE is not aware of that.

It's also reality that 62 other countries have cluster bombs.

It's not right wing bullshit as you claim. It's just reality.

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #107)

Tue May 26, 2015, 10:22 AM

111. Your reality is far from liberal. It's right wing bullshit. GRAPHIC.

According to article 17 of the treaty, the convention entered into force "on the first day of the sixth month after the month in which the thirtieth instrument of ratification, acceptance, approval or accession has been deposited".[3] Since the thirtieth ratification was deposited during February 2010, the convention entered into force on 1 August 2010; by that point, 38 nations had ratified the treaty.

As the convention entered into force, UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon spoke of "not only the world's collective revulsion at these abhorrent weapons, but also the power of collaboration among governments, civil society and the United Nations to change attitudes and policies on a threat faced by all humankind".[29] A spokesman for the International Committee of the Red Cross said "These weapons are a relic of the Cold War. They are a legacy that has to be eliminated because they increasingly won't work".[30] Nobel peace prize winner Jody Williams called the convention "the most important disarmament and humanitarian convention in over a decade".[30]

Anti-cluster munitions campaigners praised the rapid progress made in the adoption of the convention, and expressed hope that even non-signatories – such as the US, China and Russia – would be discouraged from using the weapons by the entry into force of the convention.[31] As one of the countries that did not ratify the treaty, the United States said that cluster bombs are a legal form of weapon, and that they had a "clear military utility in combat." It also said that compared to other types of weapons, cluster bombs are less harmful to civilians.[29]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_on_Cluster_Munitions







http://thewe.cc/thewei/_/images_4/us_terror_state__/girl_injured_by_us_bombing.jpe

You can shove your defense of these horrors straight up your ass.

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Response to polly7 (Reply #111)

Tue May 26, 2015, 10:24 AM

114. 62 countries have cluster bombs

 

That's reality.

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Response to polly7 (Reply #95)

Tue May 26, 2015, 10:13 AM

105. well, on the bright side

 

as the opposition to international legal decency runs with their rope, they will hang themselves.
too bad about all the dead innocents along the way.

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #71)

Tue May 26, 2015, 09:29 AM

73. When is the last time another country used cluster bombs in the U.S.????? nt.

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #71)

Tue May 26, 2015, 09:32 AM

74. Who are your 'enemies'?

The 9/11 bombers are dead. Most of them were from Saudi Arabia, yet SA is an 'ally.

Who are your enemies?

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #71)

Tue May 26, 2015, 09:51 AM

86. no, you're not. YOU are posting more false shit.

 

112 nations have signed the 2008 Convention on Cluster Munitions. The countries employing them are largely nations that the U.S. considers bad actors.

I know it's too much to ask YOU to stop with the bullshit claims, but this one? particularly noxious.

At least seventeen countries have used cluster munitions in recent history (since the creation of the United Nations). Of these nations Colombia, Iraq, the Netherlands and the United Kingdom no longer have stocks of the munitions [92][93][94] Countries that have subscribed to the Wellington Declaration, agreeing in principle to ban cluster bombs, are listed in bold.

Colombia[95]
Ethiopia
Eritrea
France
Georgia



Iran
Iraq
Israel
Libyan Arab Jamahiriya
Morocco
Netherlands



Nigeria
Russia
Saudi Arabia
South Africa/ South Africa[96]



Sudan
Syria
United Kingdom
United States
Sri Lanka[97][98

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cluster_munition#United_States_policy_towards_cluster_munitions

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Response to cali (Reply #86)

Tue May 26, 2015, 09:54 AM

88. So they HAVE them - a few just promise not to use them?

 

Talk about your constant allegations about my "truthiness" - man, I can't hold a candle to you!

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #88)

Tue May 26, 2015, 10:07 AM

97. what part of those countries no longer have stocks of them, don't you grasp, maggs?

 

What part of this is so difficult for you to wrap your beautiful mind around, maggs?

At least seventeen countries have used cluster munitions in recent history (since the creation of the United Nations). Of these nations Colombia, Iraq, the Netherlands and the United Kingdom no longer have stocks of the munitions [92][93][94] Countries that have subscribed to the Wellington Declaration, agreeing in principle to ban cluster bombs, are listed in bold.

The countries in bold are:

France, Morocco, Netherlands, Nigeria, South Africa, Sudan, Syria, UK, Sri Lanka

The U.S. is one of the very few nations in the world, maggs, that hasn't agreed to stop using cluster munitions.

I post facts with links. You post bullshit false claims.

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Response to cali (Reply #97)

Tue May 26, 2015, 10:08 AM

99. 62 countries have them

 

Those include enemies and allies. Try dealing with reality.

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #59)

Tue May 26, 2015, 09:49 AM

83. Considering our record as the "world's police" we should be fired.

 

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Response to Tierra_y_Libertad (Reply #83)

Tue May 26, 2015, 09:50 AM

85. Hey, I didn't say it's a good thing

 

Just that it is reality.

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #38)

Tue May 26, 2015, 04:26 AM

47. Why not? nt.

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #38)

Tue May 26, 2015, 06:57 AM

49. yes

 

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #38)

Tue May 26, 2015, 08:32 AM

54. is that really your pro-cluster bomb argument?

 

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #38)

Tue May 26, 2015, 09:38 AM

77. Should we give up the Death Star?

 

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #77)

Tue May 26, 2015, 09:40 AM

79. fueling nightmares

 

wonder if Lucas would incorporate this notion were he still in charge?

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Response to woo me with science (Original post)

Tue May 26, 2015, 12:40 AM

39. From the article

The Clinton Sanctions Were Calamitous

Senator Clinton is currently trying to build a campaign around her experience in the White House, but she refuses to take responsibility for the most inhumane and disastrous foreign policy operation of the Clinton years: the infamous economic sanctions against Iraq. The sanctions, a colossal failure, formed the centerpiece of Clinton foreign policy. While the sanctions began with Bush senior in 1990, they were carried out and enforced with a vengeance by the Clinton Administration. The second war against Iraq actually began long before George Bush launched the shock-and-awe bombings in 2003. The Clinton sanctions afflicted the entire Iraqi population. Child mortality, as well as the death rate for the elderly and the chronically ill, skyrocketed. Malnutrition debilitated the country. Irrigation and sanitation systems collapsed. Common diseases multiplied. The Iraqi medical services, the most advanced medical system in the Mideast prior to the sanctions, fell apart. Farmers ran out of fertilizers and machine parts. Thousands of trained professionals fled the country. The sanctions, combined with surprise bombing raids, destroyed the entire infrastructure.

As the full magnitude of the calamity became public knowledge, humanitarian organizations, like Voices in the Wilderness, made appeals to the White House. Denis Halliday, former U.N. Humanitarian Coordinator for Iraq, resigned in protest in 1998. (His successor, H.C. von Sponeck, later resigned as well). Contemptuous of human rights and world opinion, President Clinton blocked Russian and French proposals to end the sanctions.


Hillary's concern for women and children is fleeting.

K&R

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Response to Oilwellian (Reply #39)

Tue May 26, 2015, 01:35 AM

40. So you were Pro Iraq having nukes????

 

If they'd gotten them because Clinton stood by and did nothing ISIL would have them now.

And no, she doesn't need to take responsibility for Bill's actions as president. That's absurd. And sexist IMO.

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #40)

Tue May 26, 2015, 04:18 AM

43. Is that you Judith?

 

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #40)

Tue May 26, 2015, 04:19 AM

44. I'm against the U.S. having nukes.

And North Korea, and Israel, and everyone else.

What should be done about it?

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #40)

Tue May 26, 2015, 07:27 AM

50. Your post makes no sense whatsoever.

 

And has nothing to do with Hillary's indefensible votes on cluster bombs and the IWR.

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Response to morningfog (Reply #50)

Tue May 26, 2015, 09:39 AM

78. Get used to that.

 

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #40)

Tue May 26, 2015, 07:32 AM

53. Snark. I think.

Dry, very dry.

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Response to woo me with science (Original post)

Tue May 26, 2015, 07:30 AM

51. They aren't good for adults either

What about the adults?

there are more children numerically in the third world.

That's being used to distract.

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Response to treestar (Reply #51)

Tue May 26, 2015, 08:57 AM

60. The children aren't a 'distraction'.

Children are much more likely to be maimed and killed by 'leftover bombs'.

Cluster Bomb Fact Sheet

Cluster bombs are designed as anti-personnel, anti-armor weapons, but the primary victims have been innocent civilians. More than 98% of known cluster bomb victims are civilians and 40% are children, who are drawn to the small, toy-like metal objects.

Cluster bomb casings release hundreds of bomblets—the size of a soup can or orange—over wide areas, frequently missing intended military targets and killing nearby civilians.

Commonly used cluster bombs are designed to explode into hundreds of pieces of razor-sharp shrapnel that rip through bodies. They are deadlier than land mines.

Anywhere from 2% to 20% of modern cluster munitions do not detonate upon impact (this rate rises to 30% for older bombs used in the second Indochina War), leaving a deadly hazard for years to come.


http://legaciesofwar.org/resources/cluster-bomb-fact-sheet/



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Response to woo me with science (Original post)

Tue May 26, 2015, 07:32 AM

52. The Truth has an Anti-Clinton Bias n/t

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Response to woo me with science (Original post)

Tue May 26, 2015, 10:20 AM

109. Assault Rifles Are Not Good For Children, Bernie

 

Bernie Sanders, Gun Nut
He supported the most reprehensible pro-gun legislation in recent memory.


By Mark Joseph Stern

During his time in Congress, Sanders opposed several moderate gun control bills. He also supported the most odious NRA–backed law in recent memory—one that may block Sandy Hook families from winning a lawsuit against the manufacturer of the gun used to massacre their children.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2015/05/bernie_sanders_on_guns_vermont_independent_voted_against_gun_control_for.html


Its about people, not profits? Really Bernie?

Why is Bernie protecting the profits of assault rifles manufacturers over the people of Sandy Hook who lost their children to a fuckin madman armed with a state of the art killing machine??

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Response to workinclasszero (Reply #109)

Tue May 26, 2015, 10:30 AM

115. Oh noes - not reality again!!!

 

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Response to woo me with science (Original post)

Tue May 26, 2015, 10:55 AM

116. cluster bombs are totally awesome for children

 

When the stocks for the companies that make cluster bombs go up, some people get to make a lot of money, and then they take some of that money and give it to Hillary Clinton through any of the various vehicles set up to facilitate these transactions, which will help make her the first woman President so that she can finally pass TPP and save all the children in Syria from being sold as slaves by ISIS.

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Response to Man from Pickens (Reply #116)

Tue May 26, 2015, 11:02 AM

117. and 401k's

 

dont tax me bro

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