I am waiting for Texas Governor Abbot to talk about Climate Change.

[edhopper]

[img][/img]

[Buzz Clik]

1. What's your point?

[edhopper]

3. State with official Climate Change denial

hit by floods caused by climate change.

Hope you can see the connection.

[Buzz Clik]

5. You think these floods were caused by climate change?

Three years ago, Texas was mired in an extended, devastating drought. Was that climate change, too?

[ananda]

7. Yes, that's how human caused warming and climate chaos works.

One extreme to the other ....

[Buzz Clik]

14. Well, you're half right.

And half wrong. As is James Inhofe.

Sorry, but the half wrong part is really, really important.

[KamaAina]

48. No, Inhofe was using the infamous snowball to deny global warming

because in his little pea brain, if there's warming, it can't be snowing.

[edhopper]

53. Thank you for educating him

on what Inofe was actually, stupidly saying.

[KamaAina]

55. De nada.

[Buzz Clik]

57. Uh, yeah. I already said that.

Not to worry. It's hard to leap into the center of an ongoing conversation and come across well.

[KamaAina]

60. Conversation?

Is that what they're calling flamewars these days?

[clarice]

67. BS. nt

[edhopper]

8. Yes

as is the one in the West now.
Climate change leads to more drastic weather.

[Buzz Clik]

12. I see. So, when some jackass in the Senate throws a snowball to disprove global warming...

... he is correct?

[edhopper]

13. Huh?

[Buzz Clik]

18. Uh huh.

Climate extremes that support global climate change are proving us right, but extremes that don't support global warming don't exist.

This is no different than the right wing point of view.

If you don't embrace a scientifically defensible concept of climate, you cannot discuss climate change in any way that makes sense.

[edhopper]

19. Scientifically defensible

http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2015/05/25/3662526/texas-drought-ends-in-flood/

Going from one extreme to another is a hallmark of climate change. Scientists predict more droughts in the coming decades, as well as more intense rainstorms. In the midwest, the number of storms that drop more than three inches of rain have increased by 50 percent, according to an analysis from the Rocky Mountain Institute.

Texas and Oklahoma both face intensifying drought and flooding, although politicians in both states have denied climate change. According to the Natural Resources Defense Council, Texas “has yet to formally address climate change preparedness” — one of only 12 states to not have taken any steps toward addressing the impacts of climate change on water resources.

Though these events always happen, their intensity is ramped up by climate change.

[Buzz Clik]

22. The flooding in Texas is WEATHER, not CLIMATE.

Yes, extremes in weather can be symptomatic of climate change, but to flatly declare that a weekend of flooding was caused by climate change is simply ignorant. This is the kind of flippant analysis that allows idiot deniers to look at cold winters and declare global warming as invalid.

Real quick: what is the minimum time frame of observation necessary to make observations about climate? (Hint: it's longer than 48 hours)

[edhopper]

23. So you agree the extreme nature of this flood

which the Governor even says is the worst ever, can be linked to climate change?

Or do you agree with people like Abbot and say climate change shouldn't be talked about when events like this happen, cause it sure sounds like that's what you're arguing.

[Buzz Clik]

26. One at a time:

1) Can the flooding be linked to climate change? Perhaps. Extremes in weather are consistent with climate change.

2) Climate change shouldn't be talked about I agree that people who know very little about the science of climate change should talk about it only at their level of competence, and that goes for you as well as Abbott.

Don't ask me any more questions until you answer mine.

[edhopper]

36. To not look at events in the context of climate change is inane.

Should we ignore giant Ice Sheets separating from Antarctica because they are specific short term events.


To not have climate change in a conversation about historic flooding is foolish.

There, I have answered your little question.

[Buzz Clik]

38. Loss of Antarctic ice is not a short-term process. It is not the result of a weekend's warm weather.

You have much to learn on this subject. People who think they have all the knowledge but, in reality, know very little are a liability.

[edhopper]

40. Are you purposely being

disingenuous?


Or normally obtuse?

A single ice sheet breaking off is a one time event, like a weekend flood.
Why look at either in the context of Climate Change.

Lets not talk about it at all when events like this happens.

That's the way to go.

[Buzz Clik]

43. We're done.

Quite seriously, you have a huge knowledge gap in this area.

It's frustrating how often this happens at DU: I try to educate someone who has good intentions but limited understanding, and I end up being accused of being a shill or some such crap.

No matter.

[truebluegreen]

27. I saw what you did there; did you?

"Climate extremes that support global climate change are proving us right, but extremes that don't support global warming don't exist."

Nothing like changing your terminology mid-sentence to bolster your point.

Global warming is happening--as a world-wide average. Global climate change is also happening, as a result of global warming: since the planet isn't in a planetary-sized convection oven, the increased energy the atmosphere is absorbing is not distributed evenly and has led to an increased number of extreme weather events. Unseasonal and large snowballs in DC are just as big an indication of that as a heat wave (relatively speaking) in Alaska in winter.

Unless you are an idiot like Inhofe.

[Buzz Clik]

28. "Unless you are an idiot like Inhofe." Anyone who invokes weather in discussions about climate...

... is an idiot.

Global climate change is a never-ending process. Global warming has a very specific connotation.

"Anthropogenic global climate change" and "anthropogenic global warming" have very nearly identical implications. There was no trickery in my wording, and I really get sick of playing semantics with people who are incapable of a scientific discussion.

[truebluegreen]

30. Trends in weather are not the same as weather.

Thanks for playing.

[Buzz Clik]

33. That is correct. And a weekend trend is not a trend at all.

To answer a question that the author of the OP refused to answer: weather trends must be observed for about 20 years before inferences about climate can even begin.

And I'm not playing; this is a deadly serious subject, and muddling the discussion with scientifically indefensible comments and gross inconsistencies isn't helping anything. If you are just "playing", then quit. If you're serious, educate yourself.

[LanternWaste]

31. Much as those who move the goalposts in the middle of statement

"... is an idiot."

Much as those who move the goalposts in the middle of statement to change premises are also...

[Buzz Clik]

34. I didn't change the discussion, and I clarified my comments.

A huge, huge problem with the left is their lack of scientific understanding. They react strongly and are thrilled to death that the science is lining up with their fears about climate change; but, they know next to nothing about the science.

So, don't lecture me. I know this subject inside and out. Perhaps you know it, too; if so, don't side with the ignorant.

There is no one on this board who is a bigger proponent about taking action regarding climate change. However, that doesn't mean I'll tolerate ignorant comments. And why is that? Because every time some left winger says something really fucking ignorant, there is someone on the right willing to run a hundred miles with that stupidity as a demonstration that the science is invalid.

So, if you're serious about his subject, you will not tolerate the silliness on display in this thread.

[onenote]

44. +1

Thanks for your efforts. If only one person gains a better understanding of why it is not merely wrong, but counter productive, to point to a short term weather event as having been "caused" by climate change, you've done a good thing.

[Buzz Clik]

45. I'm waiting of the <sarsacm> icon.... or the alert on my post...????

Thank you.

As you might guess, my attempts to kick up the knowledge are often misconstrued as being a denier.

[clarice]

69. +100. nt

[ChisolmTrailDem]

32. Three years ago? We were in drought three months ago. And, yes, climate change brings about

extreme swings in weather events.

Here in N. Texas, everyone is talking about how no one can remember it EVER raining as much as it has in the past three weeks. It's being discussed as "unprecedented" by those non-right-wingers who know what that word means. The right-wingers are even noticing something isn't right in between their whooping and hollering in their 4x4s as they spin the wheels through the mud, which usually takes the form in one way or another of "Woooooo-ooooo-weeeeeee, I ain't NEVER seen this much mud! Yee-hawwwww, I feel like Junior in that swamp on that Mt. Dew commercial on TV!"

[clarice]

66. I thought it was caused by rain. nt

[City Lights]

2. Good thing you're not holding your breath. nt

[samsingh]

4. aren't the gop like the taliban? the taliban doesn't care about the climatge either

[Buzz Clik]

9. Don't forget the Nazis and the Khmers Rouges. Tamil Tigers and Boko Haram.

[ananda]

10. Texas is also talibanizing women.

Boy that hurts ... to see what's happening to reproductive-age women
in Texas, and they're just sittin back and takin it.

[ananda]

6. Is it still legal to say "climate change" in Texas?

I know it's illegal to ban fracking...

[edhopper]

11. I know it is in Florida

wouldn't be surprised if the memo were sent in Texas as well.
But it's moot, because no one in the Texas Executive office accepts climate change.

[UTUSN]

15. He's waiting for Ted NUGENT. n/t

[TexasProgresive]

16. That will come when his faith

lets him rise out of his chair and walk.

I know this is rude and unacceptable but this man is one of the worst of the worst.

[edhopper]

17. Not at all

people shouldn't get a pass on being a hypocritical asshole because they have a disability.

I hope you and yours are safe down there. I feel for those affected by this flooding.

[dembotoz]

20. change increases the likelihood of bizarre weather-but to say this event is a direct result is

Not a correct thing to do

[spanone]

21. it just as well could be a direct result. to say it's not is not a correct thing to do.

[edhopper]

24. The extreme nature of the flood

can be linked, not the flooding itself.

But my point is the refusal of Republicans to even put Climate Change into the conversatio when this happens.

[dembotoz]

29. edhopper i agree with your post-just don't get trapped by trying to prove any 1 specific event is

directly caused

we have always had bad weather and record breaking this and that.
seems the frequency is the new bad news....


the gop is ignorant assholes granted....

[truebluegreen]

25. Oh no--this isn't climate change!

It is just weather! One of the few times deniers might grok the difference.

[edhopper]

37. extreme weather

is the result of climate change. And while events are not a direct effect, their severity can be linked.

[truebluegreen]

46. I was being facetious.

I'd say the growing intensity and frequency of extreme weather is the result of climate change. But otherwise I agree completely.

[edhopper]

51. Sorry

there is a poster here who has berated me for connecting this to climate change.

[truebluegreen]

52. Yeah, I saw.

[edhopper]

54. And of course the whole point of my thread

that an event like this should get us to talk about climate change, which we know assholes like Abbot will never do, escapes some people.
Because were too ignorant to understand the difference between weather and climate.

[truebluegreen]

63. +1

[Buzz Clik]

39. There are deniers, and there are the uneducated.

You need to be able to tell the difference.

[truebluegreen]

47. Which are you?

For my notes.

[Buzz Clik]

56. Beyond your grasp.

Obviously.

[truebluegreen]

64. uh huh

According to Scientific American, Houston saw 10 inches of rain within 24 hours on Monday, causing what Republican Gov. Greg Abbott called the "the biggest flood this area of Texas has ever seen."

For climate scientists like Brenda Ekwurzel of the Union of Concerned Scientists, the link to a warming planet was obvious.

“When you have a warmer atmosphere, then you have the capability to hold more water vapor," Ekwurzel explained. "When storms organize, there’s much more water you can wring out of the atmosphere compared to the past.”

An idiot, clearly.

[edhopper]

65. doesn't she know the difference

Between weather and climate?

[truebluegreen]

68. Heh.

[Downwinder]

35. The period between Lake Texoma cresting the spillway is halving.

1957
1990
2007
2015

[DefenseLawyer]

41. Much better odds that he mentions Noah n/t

[edhopper]

42. If not him

then Gohmer.

[greytdemocrat]

49. Rains like this happen...

Almost every year. I remember stories like
this going back decades.

[edhopper]

50. If you read about the details

rains like this almost never happen.
The term 'record setting' is in most news stories.

[greytdemocrat]

58. BS for the headlines.

I'm talking about living through it. I've been stuck
in Houston several times, unable to get to business meetings
because of flooded roads. It happens a lot.

[edhopper]

59. it's not bs headlines

10 inches on Monday alone.
http://www.weather.com/forecast/regional/news/plains-rain-flood-threat-wettest-may-ranking


But you can keep thinking it's just a normal shower.

[DesMoinesDem]

61. Houston Flooding More Typical Than You Think

Such was the case with Tropical Storm Allison in 2001.

An initial soaking as Allison moved ashore on June 5-6 was followed by a second epic deluge after Allison's remnant moved off the Texas coast on June 8-9.

By the time the rains ended, parts of the Houston metro area had picked up more than 35 inches of rainfall over the five-day period, much of which fell during that second round. This is roughly three-quarters of the average annual rainfall in just five days.

Furthermore, Allison's torrential rain – 10 inches or more – was much more widespread over the Houston metro, not to mention east Texas and the northern Gulf Coast (map), than this Memorial Day event.

More than 14,000 homes were destroyed or heavily damaged, with an additional 34,000 homes suffering at least minor damage, according to the National Hurricane Center's recap.



Houston Flooding More Typical Than You Think

According to NOAA's National Climatic Data Center, there were 86 days with reports of flooding or flash flooding in Harris County from 1996 through 2014. This equates to an average of 4-5 days of flooding each year over that time period.

Including this Memorial Day flood, there have been at least 25 events that flooded homes in the Houston metro area since the mid 1970s, according to Houston-based Weather Research Center (WRC) and National Weather Service records.

These events have happened every time of the year, even in late fall and winter.

Apart from the prodigious rainfall from tropical cyclones and their remnants, thunderstorms and thunderstorm clusters tend to slow and stall near the Gulf Coast, especially from late spring through early fall.

Here are a just a few notable Houston metro floods of the past, not including Allison (2001) mentioned above:

- April 28, 2009: Over 2100 homes flooded, freeways impassable.

- June 19, 2006: Up to 11 inches of rain in southern and eastern Harris County flooded 3000 homes.

- Late Summer/Fall 1998: Three separate flood events flooded at least 2,700 homes. First event on Sep. 11 was from Tropical Storm Frances.

- October 17-21, 1994: Over 22,000 homes flooded; Record lake levels at Lakes Conroe, Livingston, and Houston; At least $900 million damage (1994 dollars) and 17 killed.

- Late June/Early July 1989: Just over a month after a separate flood event swamped 1,400 homes, Tropical Storm Allison - the 1989 version - flooded another 1,100 homes. This was the second highest crest at Greens Bayou in northeast Houston other than 2001's Allison.

- Sept. 19-20, 1983: Just one month after Hurricane Alicia, 1,000 homes along Brays Bayou flooded from a 9-inch deluge south of downtown Houston.

- July 24-26, 1979: Tropical Storm Claudette wrings out U.S. record 24-hour rainfall of 43 inches near Alvin. 15,000 homes and 17,000 vehicles damaged.

- Dec. 8, 1935: Flooding to second and third floors of downtown buildings; Houston central water plant inoperable for weeks; prompted creation of Harris County Flood Control District.

http://www.weather.com/storms/severe/news/houston-flood-history-may2015-allison

[Buzz Clik]

70. Excellent post.

For whatever reason, the author of the OP is on a mission to have everyone agree that the rain cycle in Texas these past weeks and the incredible downpours this past weekend MUST be the result of a warming planet. Anyone who disagrees is automatically labeled as a denier or a fool. It's been a remarkable display.

What the author does not appreciate is:

1. Extreme weather is consistent with global warming, but not every bit of bad weather can be attributed to the global warming
   
2. Going way out on a limb and claiming that extreme events of any kind are part and parcel of a warmer planet (and the warming is only beginning) opens the door to legitimate counter arguments when these weather patterns subside. Remember the frenzy that DU lathered themselves into when we had so many heavy hurricanes? "More frequent and more severe hurricanes are here to stay!" And when the frequency subsided, here came the critics, and our friends were left with just their hands in their pockets.
   
3. Texas has a long, long history of horrible weather that dates back throughout recorded history.

I would strongly suggest that the author of the OP take a step back and reconsider who his friends are. Given his lack of knowledge of global climate change, he's going to need a lot of technical and scientific support, and he won't be getting it from the parade of characters who have been giving him attaboys on this thread.

[spanone]

62. i'm sure he's begging for federal assistance from the president he hates

[moondust]

71. On April 9 Abbott renewed his drought disaster proclamation.

https://www.tceq.texas.gov/assets/public/response/drought/proclamation.pdf

https://www.tceq.texas.gov/response/drought

One extreme to another.

[edhopper]

72. Apparently I am not the only idiot

who thinks that we should talk about climate change in relation to this event in Texas.

Bill NyeVerified account
?@BillNye

Billion$$ in damage in Texas & Oklahoma. Still no weather-caster may utter the phrase Climate Change.