In Case You Missed This... 'People Who Say They’re ‘Fiscally Conservative But Socially Liberal’...

[WillyT]

Here are 7 things people who say they’re ‘fiscally conservative but socially liberal’ don’t understand
Greta Christina - RawStory
22 May 2015 at 09:34 ET

<snip>

Well, I’m conservative, but I’m not one of those racist, homophobic, dripping-with-hate Tea Party bigots! I’m pro-choice! I’m pro-same-sex-marriage! I’m not a racist! I just want lower taxes, and smaller government, and less government regulation of business. I’m fiscally conservative, and socially liberal.”

How many liberals and progressives have heard this? It’s ridiculously common. Hell, even David Koch of the Koch brothers has said, “I’m a conservative on economic matters and I’m a social liberal.”

And it’s wrong. W-R-O-N-G Wrong.

You can’t separate fiscal issues from social issues. They’re deeply intertwined. They affect each other. Economic issues often are social issues. And conservative fiscal policies do enormous social harm. That’s true even for the mildest, most generous version of “fiscal conservatism” — low taxes, small government, reduced regulation, a free market. These policies perpetuate human rights abuses. They make life harder for people who already have hard lives. Even if the people supporting these policies don’t intend this, the policies are racist, sexist, classist (obviously), ableist, homophobic, transphobic, and otherwise socially retrograde. In many ways, they do more harm than so-called “social policies” that are supposedly separate from economic ones. Here are seven reasons that “fiscally conservative, socially liberal” is nonsense.

1: Poverty, and the cycle of poverty. This is the big one. Poverty is a social issue. The cycle of poverty — the ways that poverty itself makes it harder to get out of poverty, the ways that poverty can be a permanent trap lasting for generations — is a social issue, and a human rights issue.

If you’re poor, there’s about a two in three chance...

<snip>

And at the end...

If you care about marginalized people — if you care about the oppression of women, LGBT people, disabled people, African Americans and Hispanics and other people of color — you need to do more than go to same-sex weddings and listen to hip-hop. You need to support economic policies that make marginalized people’s lives better. You need to oppose economic policies that perpetuate human rights abuses and make marginalized people’s lives suck.

And that means not being a fiscal conservative.

The Rest: http://www.rawstory.com/2015/05/here-are-7-things-people-who-say-theyre-fiscally-conservative-but-socially-liberal-dont-understand/

[MADem]

1. I think it depends on what you're being "fiscally conservative" about.

The article is well-meaning but simplistic. The illustration, though, is priceless--who doesn't want to mock that mustachioed blowhard roundly?

For example, I applaud fiscal conservativism when it comes to the military-industrial-Congressional complex. I don't think we need a zillion new weapons systems, for example. I think we should limit the number of new ones coming on line, and we need to de-couple Congress from the influence of lobbyists in this regard. Maybe we could do with a few less of this or that--we really have an embarrassment of weaponry, already. I'd like to hire a few AUDITORS to try to find out where the trillions the Pentagon has sucked up down the years went. I'd like those auditors to put some fiscal discipline into the mix, so the Service Chiefs and Secretaries are forced to balance their books at the end of the year--not the bullshit, half-assed accounting they do--an actual accounting so we know just what we have and where it is.

I think we could stand to be fiscally liberal when it comes to funding schools, health care, elder services, community outreach like after school programs, street lights, pothole repair, job retraining, community policing and small business assistance, and our national parks. For starters. But I think there should be an accounting of the money spent. Americans deserve to know how their country is supporting their goals, after all.

There's nothing wrong with watching those dimes, quarters and dollars. Wasting money on bullshit that could be spent on schoolbooks is what sucks.

The trick is, when you spend the money, to spend it on things that benefit the greater community.

[WillyT]

2. When I Was A School Teacher, Many Moons Ago, I Was Asked...

"What do you want us to do ? Keep throwing money your way ???"

And I said, "Yeah".

I also said that, "You fuckers are gonna take the next 20 to 30 years to fight this stupid shit out... so yeah... for those next 20 to 30 years... throw me the money!"

"When you finally grow up, and actually care about the welfare of our kids... well... you will have solved BOTH of our problems."

[MADem]

4. Well, if the money went "your way" that would be helpful. It often does not.

Instead, it goes to superintendents, assistant superintendents, special assistants to the assistant superintendents, principals, assistant principals, guidance counselors who never see or talk to children, and assorted hangers on making ENORMOUS salaries while the teachers are often paid in the dark.

Too often, the money doesn't hit the classrooms--it's taken up in "executive salaries" of assholes that couldn't teach a lesson plan if it was spoon fed to them.

Kids need basics. Teachers with time to teach. An end to "bubble tests ad infinitum." Decent lighting. A reasonable ambient temperature. Sufficient and comfortable seating that is conducive to learning. BOOKS--good ones, published in THIS century, not fundy crap. Classroom materials. A good breakfast and lunch. Time to reflect on and process what they are learning. Encouragement. Small class sizes. Art and music and physical education--because one hand washes the other and both wash the face...when kids are pinging on all cylinders, they learn better.

[WillyT]

5. You're Preaching To The Choir...

[MADem]

6. I think Whitney was right. "I believe the children are our future...."

I was blessed with a superb education, it was formal and strict some years, less restrictive/more explorative in others. I am old enough that I went to universities when it wasn't back-breakingly expensive, and got some of my postgraduate education courtesy of Uncle Sam. I was lucky, though. Right place, right time, and I hit the jackpot.

I wish everyone might be so lucky. It really helps to have the tools.

[WillyT]

8. Me Too... And I Hate What Kids Today Are Going Through...

Standardized Tests... Teaching TO Those Tests... Eliminating Almost All Other Curriculum Because Of Those Tests... And Then You Have To Pass Another Test To Get Into A College... And Most Likely Pass A Test To Get A Student Loan To GO To College... And Then You Take Test After Test After Test... To Get Out Of College...

With A Degree.

And then you are tested on whether your major made sense in this world's economy...

And then you are tested, your patience, when you have to take a McJob... while Human Resources takes it sweet assed time deciding between rejecting you, or ignoring you altogether.

And then you test your parents/roommates patience... and you own resolve.

And then you are tested on how you are gonna pay for those student loans.

And in the end... when it come to alcoholism, suicide, giving up...

You are truly tested.

[MADem]

11. It's a nastyass world out there.

I thought it was cold when I was coming up, but nowadays--it's pretty rough. Even if you pass all those "tests" and find a job, you could lose that job in the blink of an eye.

There's no loyalty in the corporate world at all--gone forever are the days when, if you did good work, you had a job and a pension; no promises, no guarantees, people EXPECT to move from job to job. It used to be if you got in a good situation, you could move up the ladder--now, you don't know from day to day if the job will even be there.

It's got to be a rough situation for young people.

Stressful.

[HockeyMom]

28. Know which side of the bread your butter is on

I used to hear all of that from my own fiscally conservative Republican husband. One day I just got fed up with it. Was he really that clueless? Excuse me, but where do you think MY paycheck is coming from? All those things, like taxes and UNION wages, you are so ranting and raving about.

I was a Public School Special Needs TA. My husband never said one word about it after MY blow up.

[brer cat]

20. Excellent post, MADem. nt

[MADem]

23. Thanks!

I like your keyboard cat, there. I used to have one that did that!

[MFrohike]

3. They're idiots

They confuse money for actual resources. It's bumper sticker economic thinking and its prevalence among the political class goes a long way to explaining why things are as they are.

[jtuck004]

7. That's often the description of a plantation owner or one of their lapdogs. n/t

[daleanime]

9. K&R.....

[Spitfire of ATJ]

10. Some people define "fiscal conservative" as opposing $3.4 million turtle crossings....

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/Economy/story?id=8045022&page=1&singlePage=true

Conservatives are more than happy to label all pork as "Liberal" especially if they are the ones who quietly did it.

[kenfrequed]

12. It has always been stupid.

It is one of those tactical moves that always was worse for the Democratic party on a strategic level. The idiots that used to say it a lot are mostly out of office.

I mean essentially what were they saying? "Democrats are really bad with money?"

Just foolish really.

[whereisjustice]

13. Absolutely spot on!

[olddots]

14. the people who say they are that way

Also came up with bullshit like "creative financing "

[RiffRandell]

15. My in-laws are a prime example. nt.

[Thekaspervote]

16. Thank you for posting

[WillyT]

17. You Are Quite Welcome !!!

[Warren DeMontague]

18. Except labels are just labels.

People can support or not support whatever policies they want. Someone who wants lower taxes but also has no problem with gay marriage, you can call them whatever you want, but I highly doubt someone like David Koch is going to be susceptible to being shamed into supporting a livable minimum wage because a raw story blogger says he "has to".

I think He should support a livable min. wage, don't get me wrong- but the simple fact is, there are people who don't, and they're gonna call themselves what they want no matter how much other people complain about it.

[dreamnightwind]

19. Thanks, missed it the first time

You see this position from a lot of the centrists on here, boggles the mind. I think it is partly how they justify supporting candidates who are captured by corporate campaign donations and the strings that come with those donations. The bottom line of those corporations aren't hurt by the social liberal policies, so they allow progress in those areas to fool us into thinking we're making gains on a long slow road of progress. And on the social issues, it is true.

The bigger story, though, it we're being strangled by corporate financial interests, they literally control our political and military establishments. And they couldn't care less about us, so long as they get theirs.

My analogy is we're on the Titanic, and the people who focus only on the social issues are fighting to get a seat that is equal to the seat of others on the Titanic, when we should all be worrking together to change the direction of the ship.

This time, it won't be an iceberg, it will be poverty, incarceration, loss of civil liberties and sovereignty, and the biggest killer of all on the horizon is climate change. We HAVE to change the direction of this ship, there is no choice.

[WillyT]

24. Great Analogy !!! - Wonderful !!!

[quaker bill]

21. A better term is "non religious conservatives"

The facts, if true, that a person does not oppose civil rights, same gender marriages, or propose regulation of abortion is insufficient to claim the "liberal" label. "Fiscal conservatives" are conservatives, just not religious fundamentalists. The failure to be a religious fundamentalist does not make one "liberal".

It is more "you can have your rights as long as they cost me nothing, and I do not have to do anything". This stand shares more with apathy than liberalism. So perhaps we call it Fiscal Conservative - Social Apathetic.

[gollygee]

22. How many people at DU have said they're fiscally conservative?

You're misrepresenting the people of color, women, LGBT people at DU who have complained that some Sanders supporters at DU have been dismissing our concerns. I know I'm not fiscally conservative and I don't think most of the rest of us are. I am not personally aware of any of us who are.

[Martin Eden]

27. It depends how you define "fiscally conservative"

The government can spend more money on infrastructure, education, health care, etc, and STILL balance the budget with a progressive tax code and the elimination of loopholes for wealthy individuals & corporations. Being fiscally conservative doesn't have to mean austerity.

A balanced budget and paying off debt makes sense when the economy is strong and doesn't need additional stimulus. Interest payments on the national debt starve our government of funds needed for vital programs.

[Martin Eden]

25. The Republican Party is NOT fiscally conservative

Ever wonder why "conservative" policies implemented under Republican presidents like Reagan & Bush actually result in HUGE BUDGET DEFICITS?

It's easy to pass this off as ideologically rigid faith in the failed theory of "supply side" economics, or just plain stupidity. But that would be a mistake. We need to consider that the long term goal of RW American conservatives is the Grover Norquist mantra to shrink government to a size that can be drowned in a bathtub. This means the ultimate destruction of the social safety nets created by FDR's New Deal and LBJ's Great Society.

It means killing Social Security and Medicare.

But these programs are too popular to kill by direct legislative assault. Republican strategists know the only way to destroy these programs to to de-fund them. Make them unaffordable. Get young people to believe that Social Security won't be there when they retire and get the voting public to accept the notion that "hard choices" must be made in "entitlement programs."

And the only way to bring this about is with HUGE BUDGET DEFICITS.

Cut taxes for the rich. Drain the treasury with enormously costly wars that enrich the MIC.

The long term RW conservative agenda can only be accomplished with HUGE BUDGET DEFICITS.

Their seemingly reckless policies are actually having the intended results.

[a kennedy]

26. Thank you, thank you, thank you for posting this..........I couldn't say it with such perfection....

This is EXACTLY what needs to be shouted and posted every where.

[freeplessinseattle]

30. My thoughts exactly!!

So many of these types in Seattle (despite my moniker-they're still freepy

[Johonny]

29. I always find these people vote for people like Reagan and W who were fiscally disasters.

Fiscally conservative is code word for "I don't want to pay a lot of taxes" even though their vote generally goes to people that do things to make sure they pay a lot of taxes while some rich guy doesn't. They are usually the least fiscally responsible people I know... and vote for politicians that are terribly not fiscally responsible.

[WillyT]

31. Kick !!!