When Bernie was an organizer for MLK's march on DC. Hillary was a Goldwater girl.

[Luminous Animal]

And she interned for Ford and worked the 1968 GOP convention.

Goldwater voted against the Civil Rights Act because of accommodation clause. So, while Hillary was organizing for a candidate that would restrict public access for all based on their color. Bernie was doing the opposite.

[geek tragedy]

1. And she worked for Eugene McCarthy that summer.

Also, that was 47 fucking years ago.

She worked on the McGovern campaign in 1972.

[Luminous Animal]

6. 47 years ago, I knew right from wrong. I was 10 years old and I when I was 12

I went to DC with my aunt to protest the war.

[geek tragedy]

9. So you think Elizabeth Warren and Glenn Greenwald lack

credibility then?

Hillary was a liberal Democrat decades before they left Team Republican.

[Cha]

12. Yeah, evidently Elizabeth Warren didn't "know right from wrong" when she voted for Reagan twice..

and bush sr.. if we're going to have a "neener neener neener" Goldwater Girl thread.

[Luminous Animal]

19. My choice for president right now is for a person who advocated for civil rights for all

and one who did not. Warren is not in the race. Bernie is and worked for civil rights for all. And Hillary worked for civil rights for some.

[NiceTryGuy]

21. Great...

...we'll see you on Team Hill once Bernie's campaign comes down from the clouds and reality starts to set in. You guys will be a great push over the top. We're looking FORWARD to it!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

65. Whose civil rights did she oppose?

Thank you in advance.

[Luminous Animal]

14. Hiilary and Bill consider the Bush's their friends.

Both Greenwald and Warren, IN ACTION, have rejected their past.They both challenge the status quo.

Hillary champions the status quo and hug them.

[geek tragedy]

50. Bill Clinton removed Poppy Bush from office.

Elizabeth Warren voted for Poppy Bush three times, including that election.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

67. That left a mark.

[brush]

55. Greenwald definitely

He didn't "see the light" (become an allegedly liberal icon) until he was in his 40s.

What took him so long?

But back to the OP — let's cut the Hillary vs Bernie pissing contests. They're both on our sides of the aisle. No need for supporters to flame the other. Bernie has even said it himself — he likes Hillary and doesn't want to engage in attack politics and neither should we.

Whoever runs the best campaign will win the nomination and we should all support the party's nominee against the repugs, the real enemies — remember?.

[HooptieWagon]

68. Hillary isn't a liberal Democrat.

She was one of the original DLC members....corporatist Dems.

[treestar]

59. you're going to put that on a moral plane of right and wrong?

Just like a right winger, people who disagree on politics are immoral.

[billhicks76]

33. Yes But She Was Still A Republican

She was President of the College Republicans and in 1968 at the age of 21 she attended the Republican Convention in support of her hero Rockefeller. Yes she became estranged due to Nixon attacking Rocky but it was still elitist all the way. I do not believe Elizabeth Warren had that elitism when she was a Republican. The Rodhams were elitist high society conservatives. Yes she changed when dating Bill Clinton but one must remember that in 1972-1978 conservativism was almost dead, the military was ostracized and hippies went mainstream. She and Bill knew to be on a winning team;you don't become a Republican in those days. In either case people can change I agree but know them by their actions and not their words. If you do it's obvious Hillary never really changed much. Anyone who voted for the Iraq War is not only a total sell out but a disingenuous liar to claim they didn't know what war meant or what they were doing. Maybe a 17 year old could claim that. And yes that goes for ANY Democrat. It was painfully obvious what lying and evil was occurring even to a dimwit. And that the Bush Family and Cheney were involved makes it more obvious. But then again Hillary is called an honorary Bush Family member by the Bushes and doesn't deny her suspicious and insipid connection to them. Sure helped with prosecutions not happening in 1993 and it's obvious Bill was the one chosen to be "allowed" to run against Bush for his previous loyalty as a bulwark in case Perot tried to monkey wrench the nomination. As we all know Bush lost but Clinton never got a majority only because Perot knew of Bush Sr's corruption and CIA cocaine running. It's been shown in numerous documents too that the Iraq War was decided on before 911 happened and the Patriot Act too was already written. You think Hillary didn't know this??? Her husband tried to get many provisions of the Patriot Act passed a few years earlier but couldn't because low level House Republicans not in on the high level cooperation opposed anything just because Clinton wanted it like some asshat Repubs do now. But make no mistake...they are perceived as idiot fools not in on the action and unaware of the scam.

[LuvNewcastle]

40. +1000 n/t

[charlyvi]

42. Nelson Rockefeller was not a conservative.

If he was running now he would be considered an out of the mainstream flaming liberal. Just saying'. His type of Repub no longer exists. He was in the John Lindsey/Everett Dirksen/Chuck Percy mold. I really have no dog in this Hillary/Bernie hunt, but to say she was conservative because she supported Rockefeller is misleading.

Edit.....These folks were prominent before St. Ronnie. In fact, the world was much, much better before St. Ronnie.

[Historic NY]

44. Liberal Republican NY governor....

he accomplished more that the fish wrapper Pataki who now seeks the presidency.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

72. I lived In NYC as a little boy but I was old enough to understand politics.

John Lindsay ran on the Republican and Liberal Line. it was often his Democratic opponents who ran "law and order" campaigns that were designed to appeal to the grievances of white ethnics.



Another day, another calumny against Hillary.

[billhicks76]

77. C'mon Rockefeller Drug Laws

They're draconian. You need to redefine conservative. You can't compare today's conservatives to then either. The Clintons moved the center to the right in the 90s so it isn't a fair comparison. Obama would be considered a Republican in the 70s. The facts remain the same. And that family, the Rockefeller's, served up the paradigm of oil monopolies.

[geek tragedy]

51. She worked on the McGovern campaign.

Which makes your "she just wanted to be on the winning team" beyond absurd.

And your gratuitous use of "elitist" smacks of Frank Lutz, especially when you deploy it to defend voting for Ronald fucking Reagan.

[HooptieWagon]

69. She was against war, before she was for it.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

74. He also said conservatism was dead in 72 when the more conservative candidate...

He also said conservatism was dead in 72 when the more conservative candidate won the largest pop vote/Electoral college landslide in the history of the republic.

[geek tragedy]

75. Until 12 years later . . . nt

[billhicks76]

80. Nixon Won By Treason

He made a deal not to have a truce. That's a proven fact now. Just like Bush Sr made a deal with the Iranians to keep the hostages until Reagan's inauguration.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

84. It's a good thing some of us aren't generals

Attributing every success of your enemy to serendipity or chicanery is an excellent way to make your troops overconfident and likely to get slaughtered.

Sometimes it's best to give your enemy his due, figure out why he was successful, and then use that information to destroy him.

[billhicks76]

79. You're Being Asanine

Where did you drag Ronnie into this? People thought McGovern could win at one point by the way. And that was 1972. I am curious to know exactly how much. And you actually remind me of Frank Luntz. Wealthy Republicans are elitist and that he was able to turn that term on it's head against liberals is a crime...one you are aiding. So we can't call out actual elitists now because we let Frank call Democrats that? How about trying fighting back...including against 1% mouthpieces like Hillary who quietly let's so many unfair, oppressive policies remain status quo.

[geek tragedy]

83. If you're going to call someone asInine

at least spell it right.

We're done here.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

70. Her views were much more nuanced than the caricature you drew of her.

She supported John Lindsay who was elected Mayor of New York City as a Republican with the support of the Liberal Party of New York. She also supported Senate Edward Brooke (R) who was the first African American to be elected to the Senate since Reconstruction.

[billhicks76]

82. Ok But She Has Since Proven Untrustworthy

And perhaps shes a victim of her generation but voting for the Iraq War and the police state while defending Wall St and being a trusted ally of the Bush Syndicate is more than I can stomach.

[Scootaloo]

2. You know, there's no need to reciprocate the bullshit argument

Let these handful of ratfuckers wallow in their filth if that's whatturns them on. We don't need to smear Hillary with their bullshit, man

[NiceTryGuy]

23. We're going to need them...

...crazy energy is still energy. We're going to need these guys, unrealistic or not, when we come down the stretch. They'll fall in line. George W. Bush and Ralph Nader aren't all that far back in our memories. When Bernie's campaign falls to earth (or never really lifts off, more like) and most of these folks realize that it's either Hillary or Bush, the choice will be obvious.

[Scootaloo]

25. Rumors of the campaign's demise are exceedingly premature.

and Bush will not be the republican nominee. Nor will Paul. I dunno who it'll be - they're running, what, eighteen now? - but i know those two are out. One has exceptionally toxic baggage, even for hte republicans. The other is a serious boat-shaker.

At this point it's still too early to tell (no CNN jokes there I'm afraid) but I'd put my money on Walker or Huckabee.

So yeah. To be honest between those two and any democrat, damn right any democrat. Dov Hikind? Sure man, you'r not Walker or Huckabee, your your crazy racist ass in there, justt o keep those two gibbering assholes away from the big red button.

[NiceTryGuy]

30. Bernie has two chances to win...

...slim and none.

It's not too early to tell this. All you have to do is know a smidgen about electoral math. Bernie has no shot at winning the Democrat nomination, let alone a general election (where he would be utterly embarrassed). It's cool that people are enthusiastic about Bernie. People were enthusiastic about Paul on the other side. Bernie is our Paul, and good for us. Paul sparked a Tea Party movement. Bernie may spark our own movement that the elite hijack too...

[RedstDem]

39. wouldn't Bernie run for the

"Democratic" nomination?

You showed your true colors by mistake.
Carry on

[LuvNewcastle]

41. Yep, nice catch.

[Maedhros]

29. "Fall in line?"

Fuck that noise.

/bye now.

[NiceTryGuy]

31. See you in Camp Hill...

...once you're faced with Bush II.

[Lancero]

56. Thought we already been through Bush II?

[morningfog]

38. Welcome (back) to DU!

[TreasonousBastard]

3. Are you saying...

Hillary is capable of growth and change while Bernie is still stuck in the '60s?

[Luminous Animal]

10. Are you saying that Hillary has finally caught up to the 60s?

[TreasonousBastard]

17. Good one! Definitely a thread winner.

[treestar]

61. +1

They either count or they don't. They want to slam Hillary for what she did 50 years ago while giving Bernie credit for what he did 50 years ago. Pathetic that they can't find something more recent.

[geek tragedy]

5. There were liberal republicans in the 1960's. nt

[gopiscrap]

7. Not far enough to the left for me

plus, they still identified with the modern republican party and let the likes of Reagan, Nixon, bush and goldwater take over. They harbored the KKK and sabatoged the Paris peace talks

[TreasonousBastard]

16. Maybe, but which party were the yellow dogs back then? Who...

used the fire hoses and gave us black and white water fountains?

The world was a little different back then.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

73. John Lindsay was a Republican. Many of his Democratic opponents ran to his right,

He also ran on the Liberal line.

Today's Republicans suck but I wish them no personal harm.

[Luminous Animal]

11. Indeed. Those "liberal" Republicans, like Goldwater and Hillary who could not imagine

that civil rights were federal rights… not states rights. Similar to the argument that we are having to gay rights that we are having now.

[Cha]

13. Oh, so you want to see Elizabeth Warren "fucking dead".. get a grip.

[gwheezie]

8. I was member of the progressive labor party back then

So I got both of them beat. Is there a contest?
This is getting stupid. Neither one of them is any more racist than other liberals in that age group.
To me the more realistic arguments are Hillary is tied to wall street and Bernie does not have enough money to get the nomination. Either one of them or who ever gets the nomination is going to have a real battle to become president. There is a good chance the GOP will take the wh. I have my pick for my primary but I sure as hell am not going to call the other one a racist because if my pick doesn't win I'm going to fight like hell to get the nominee elected.

[Rhiannon12866]

15. Very well said, thank you.

I agree completely. We really aren't doing ourselves any favors with this partisan bickering. We need to put that aside and work as hard as we can to elect the Democratic nominee to the White House. Any of the current Republican candidates would be a disaster. And I think Shirley Chisholm would agree with that, too...

[uponit7771]

18. wow people, it's come to this?!

[stonecutter357]

20. .

[WillyT]

22. Huge K & R !!! - Thank You !!!

[sheshe2]

24. K~

[pnwmom]

26. Yeah, because he was that much older. She was still a teenager living under

her Republican parents' roof. He also adopted the political views of his parents -- which just happened to be leftist.

But her politics changed as she grew more independent from her parents. Good for her.

[AZ Progressive]

27. There wouldn't be this thread if a Hillaryite didn't decide to challenge Bernie on racial issues

[Cha]

34. So what? That doesn't make it worth anything. Elizabeth Warren voted for Reagan Twice and

bush sr. OP claiming she "knew right from wrong 47 years ago".. evidently it took Elizabeth Warren a lot longer to know "right from wrong".

Betting there's not too many whining about EW republicanism.

[MADem]

28. Well, of course. Hillary is much younger than Senator Sanders.

She was a fifteen year old teen, living at home with her parents and taking her political cues from them when MLK did the March on Washington.

At the time, Sanders was not a Socialist, a Democratic Socialist, or what have you. His views were much more radical in 1963, when he was TWENTY TWO years old. He has mellowed with age. It's not uncommon.

I don't hold Hillary's teen Goldwater Girl associations against her any more than I hold Sanders' voting with the National Rifle Association against him.

This kind of attempt to create a false difference is just all about clickbait and back-and-forth hating.

Funny, the Socialist Workers think Clinton and Sanders are the Bobsey Twins, pretty much. They don't see any meaningful differences in their policy views.

I think they're right.

[Cha]

35. Excellent point, MADem.. The neener neener "Goldwater Girl" doesn't hold any water. Not to mention

Elizabeth Warren voting for reagun Twice and bush sr. Where was her head?

[Maedhros]

32. I'm not as concerned with what the candidates were doing 40+ years ago

as I am about what they are doing now.

By that standard, Bernie still wins hands down.

For example, on the issue of the TPP - perhaps the most pressing issue right now - Bernie is standing tall. He's leading, while Hillary is equivocating. Makes for an easy choice.

[cali]

36. stop. please

[phleshdef]

37. I'm voting for Bernie, but this is really irrelevant.

In my teenage years through my early 20s, I was clueless and wrong on SO many issues. I was conservative on stupid shit like abortion and gay marriage rights and national security while being liberal on social safety nets, civil rights issues for minorities (except for being totally wrong on gay marriage). A lot of that was driven by my religious upbringing but at some point critical thought kicked in and I realized why a woman's right to choose matters and that sexual orientation is just another biological trait like being red headed or brown eyed or a certain type of skin tone.

I'm not denying that Hillary has a hawkish bent and a very comfortable relationship with big business. I'm voting for Bernie Sanders. But to deny that Hillary doesn't have a lot of liberal views on a great many of issues is dishonest. And to try and suggest that her record and views right now are anywhere in the neighborhood of Goldwater's is gross fabrication. I believe Bernie Sanders would agree with me on this as well.

[KingCharlemagne]

47. Goldwater publicly and repeatedly advocated using nuclear weapons on the

Vietnamese during the 1964 campaign and in the year preceding it. What kind of person 'supports' a person who, for all intents and purposes, advocates genocidal mass murder? Hillary had her head so far up her ass back then that it was sticking out her mouth. WTF? How could any feeling human being support Goldwater?

Add Hillary's support for Goldwater to her 2002 vote to invade Iraq (1,000,000+ dead Iraqi civilians) and a pattern starts to emerge and a singularly unattractive one at that. The pattern was set back in the 1960s, imo.

[treestar]

62. +1

I mean we need to debate them 50 years ago?

[DrDan]

43. there were actually moderates in the GOP back then

supported public education and infrastructure spending

there has been major shifts in both parties since then

[thesquanderer]

45. And Ronald Reagan was once a Democrat.

Didn't stop him from being a very Republican president.

[KingCharlemagne]

46. Bernie was a SNCC organizer. That's the only credential that matters, in my book. - nt

[LWolf]

49. Not the only, but an important credential. nt

[hrmjustin]

48. Reaching for the stars I see.

[chev52]

52. Bernie for president

Bernie's my choice for president. Hillary's my second choice. Either of them will have the republicans in agony if they win.

[NCTraveler]

53. Derp. nt.

[BainsBane]

54. And twenty years after than Elizabeth Warren supported Ronald Reagan

Yet I would be any amount of money that if she were running we'd hear about how that doesn't matter, even though she was a Republican well into adulthood.

[Lancero]

57. The reactions to this thread don't at all surpise me...

One side digs up the past to push against opponents but once someone does similar against them they rush in screaming 'DON'T DO THAT!'

[treestar]

58. 50 years ago

We're going to campaign in 1963 for these people?

How about 2016? Might be more relevant.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

60. Janet Hill

Janet Hill, principal at Hill Family Advisors and former special assistant to the Secretary of the Army, sits down with Women of Washington radio show hosts Aileen Black and Gigi Schumm to discuss the importance of diversity in American corporations.

Hill also talked about her early days at Wellesley College with her famous classmate, Hillary Clinton.



"I met her in 1965 shortly after I arrived at Wellesley. She was very friendly...she was very well put together and had a solid sense of self when the rest of us were dorking around. She was passionate about public policy...she was a leader of the entire class, if not the entire campus. And when we graduated in 1969, we predicted she would be the first female President of the United States", Hill said.

Janet is no stranger to having famous people around. Janet is the wife of NFL great Calvin Hill and the mother of retired NBA player Grant Hill. During her interview, she shares funny stories of Grant growing up and talks about why they refer to her as the "General."

http://www.federalnewsradio.com/396/3718823/From-Wellesley-to-Wendys-How-Janet-Hill-became-the-General

[DCBob]

63. Good grief.

[upaloopa]

64. I think we should have a new item on the home

page, the GOTCHA of the day. The best meaningless sensationalized post about a candidate of the day.
This OP is my choice for today.

[Skidmore]

66. .....

And we yell about concrete thinking.

[Orsino]

71. And Sen. Warren was more recently a Republican. Ancient history may not be very useful.

What have they done since, we should more properly ask. What agenda are they pushing?

[elfin]

76. Stoppit, just Stoppit. Bernie is terrific - and so is Hillary

I dearly hope his candicacy along with O'Malley's make it OK for her to go more Progressive before and after she wins, but she is just dandy on so many issues.

I am a geezer - all in for McCarthy, Tsongas, Bobby Kennedy etc. Now want someone both globally experienced, practical, and with enough ideals remaining to steer us in a more positive direction.

I don't care about the money grubbing, Bill's peccadillos, her cautious nature etc. I care about her coat tails for other offices, nominations to the Supremes and on and on.

I dearly wish her success with a solid Senate and Court and that she treat her time as a 4 years no holds barred term without looking to her next election and making calibrated decisions based on that.

[DCBob]

78. If one needs to go that far back to bash Hillary then that speaks volumes.

[Sancho]

81. While Bernie was writing about raping women!

http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/28/politics/bernie-sanders-rape-essay-1972/

"Bernie Sanders distances himself from 'dumb' 1972 essay on rape"

New York (CNN)Bernie Sanders' campaign tried on Thursday to distance the presidential candidate from a 1972 essay in which he wrote -- among other things -- a women "fantasizes being raped by three men simultaneously."

Michael Briggs, Sanders' newly minted campaign spokesman, said the article was a "dumb attempt at dark satire in an alternative publication" that "in no way reflects his views or record on women."

"It was intended to attack gender stereotypes of the '70s, but it looks as stupid today as it was then," Briggs told CNN.

------------------

I can't wait until folks start interviewing Bernie's kindergarten playmates!! Who knows what scandals will surface?

The Clinton's have lived with the dirt digging and Hillary bashing for decades. Bernie's life is an open door, and there's no telling what fun the GOP will have with a new candidate to investigate. Maybe DU can give the repubs a head start.

[Luminous Animal]

87. It was not an essay on rape. It was an essay about women's changing roles in sociiety and led

with a description of how women are portrayed in porn.

[Bluenorthwest]

85. Goldwater Girl/Bernie's a Racist. These are both butt ignorant, inaccurate verbal turds that are

more insulting to the intelligence of the reader than they are to the candidates.

[woo me with science]

86. K&R