The B-Word... What Are We To Do With Elton John ???

[WillyT]

Look... I have three sisters, and they use it all the time... so...

A little guidance here, please.

[fishwax]

1. what's your point? You want to use the word?

[WillyT]

2. No... I Self-Censor Here... You ???

[fishwax]

5. What's the point, then?

Like I said, I don't get it, but c'est la vie.

[WillyT]

6. I Dunno... I Always Thought The Purpose Of A Discussion Board Was To Discuss...

So...

One posts a question... and maybe gets a response...

Maybe even responds to the response.

Am I missing something ???

[fishwax]

11. lol -- okay then

Certainly seems to me like there is some sort of obscured context, but maybe it's just a bit too late at night.

[WillyT]

14. Maybe... Yet "Bastard" Is Rarely Mentioned Here...

Which implies a whole bunch.



Like I said... a whole bunch of women I know use the term "liberally"...

And that does not mean they're using it literally.

[gollygee]

22. What's interesting

is how slurs against a man are so often literally slurs against his mother, such as "bastard." Which also is a word I haven't really seen here at DU, and don't hear in the world anywhere near as much as "bitch," which has also been turned into a verb, and an adjective ("bitchy&quot , so we can use it even more often.

[NaturalHigh]

32. The usual meaning of both of those words has evolved somewhat.

[gollygee]

37. Somewhat, but the literal meaning is the same

Literally, "bastard" is more a slur against a person's mother.

[NaturalHigh]

40. Why is it that on this board Webster's Dictionary is settled law for some words...

but irrelevant for others. I doubt that most high schoolers even know what the original meaning of bastard is.

[gollygee]

41. Really?

I will have to ask some high schoolers. I can ask my daughter when she's home from school, but she's only a middle schooler. I really think everyone understands the etymology of that word.

[NaturalHigh]

42. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think they do.

Then again I've been wrong once or twice in my life.

[fishwax]

55. isn't bastard what you meant by the b-word?

I guess I should have listened to the song.

[jberryhill]

47. Elton John does not post here

The use of this word has been discussed extensively and at length at DU and, yes, Elton John's song has been raised repeatedly in those discussions.

Unless there has been some new development, the bottom line of those discussions appeared to be that there is a substantial consensus that it goes beyond a mere insult to the level of a sexist insult, because it is applied primarily to women with a high degree of uniformity.

Is it a word that a lot of people use in places other than DU? Sure. But so what? We all communicate differently in various social contexts, and this is one of them.

[Warren DeMontague]

3. I thought this thread was gonna be about bisexuality.

[Jesus Malverde]

7. DUZY...NT

[ismnotwasm]

35. Bahahahaha!

DUzy indeed.

[KMOD]

4. Yup, decades later and nothing has changed.

So go ahead and use it if you wish, Willy.

Keep in mind that people like me will think you're an (censored). But go ahead. Use it all you like. Many still do.

[WillyT]

9. So... How's Your Petition Campaign To Get It Removed From The Radio Playlists Going ???

Having any luck ???

[KMOD]

10. I have no petition.

Use it all you want, like I said.

I'll just think you an (censored)

[JI7]

8. you can sing like elton john ?

[WillyT]

13. I Can Hang...

[Cleita]

12. A female dog with puppies. I don't consider being called that an insult.

The bitch fights back if her puppies are threatened. Women were called that when they fought back in a patriarchal society when they had no rights. The men called them bitches because they fought back like the mother dog even though they probably would be beaten and wouldn't win. I don't consider it an insult at all and any women who do aren't honoring their female canine companions.

[WillyT]

16. Thank You... And Notice Nobody Answered The Original Question.

[ms liberty]

21. This... n/t

[Binkie The Clown]

15. I've known a few women who earned that title,

but fortunately, most women don't deserve to called that. Save it for when the term accurately describes the person's bitchy attitude and behavior.

[LuvNewcastle]

23. Yeah, I mostly use the word as a verb.

[NobodyHere]

17. Personally

I'm going to sit back and enjoy his music.

[Kalidurga]

18. I dunno

he lost me at playing at a party for Rush.

[NaturalHigh]

31. He played a party for Limbaugh? Really? WTF?

[Frank Cannon]

44. He got a million bucks to play at Limbaugh's latest wedding.

Apparently, per Elton, the two are "friends". He's been dead to me ever since.

This is no loss, really, because he's terrible now. His voice is shot, his songs are boring, and he and Bernie Taupin have been phoning it in for a long time now.

And to think that I was such a huge fan, back in the day. Everyone loved Elton.

[NaturalHigh]

46. I didn't even know Limpbrain got married again.

[Reter]

53. Liberals and conservatives can be friends

I have a few.

[Frank Cannon]

65. So do I.

But I don't have any friends who spew their toxic, despicable philosophies to millions of listeners every day. Nor would I.

[MADem]

57. You can do a lot of good with a million bucks.

I'd rather see Elton John distributing that cash, as opposed to Limbaugh.

Here's a list of some of the charities EJ supports: https://www.looktothestars.org/celebrity/elton-john

The charitable areas included in his giving are as follows:

Causes supported 33
Abuse, Adoption, Fostering, Orphans, AIDS & HIV, Animals, At-Risk/Disadvantaged Youths, Bullying, Cancer, Children, Civil Rights, Creative Arts, Depression and Suicide, Diabetes, Disaster Relief, Education, Emergency services, Environment, Family/Parent Support, Health, Homelessness, Human Rights, Hunger, LGBT Support, Mental Challenges, Miscellaneous, Peace, Physical Challenges, Poverty, Rape/Sexual Abuse, Refugees, Sports, Substance Abuse, Unemployment/Career Support, Women

[Frank Cannon]

66. He would've done more by publicly telling Rush to molest himself.

As you've pointed out, Elton gives to charities all the time. He didn't need to perform at that loathsome pustule's wedding. To do so indicates that Sir John has monumentally poor judgment, or some sort of bond with Rush that, frankly, makes me want to convulsively throw up.

[MADem]

67. Not really. He may have done more for YOU, but he would have negatively impacted his bottom line.

And that's just not a smart move for him. People of all political persuasions listen to his music, even as they know that he leans left in his personal politics. If you go to that link I provided, you will see he generously donates to a number of causes.

Excoriating a blowhard only gives the blowhard power and creates public sympathy for him. Far better to take his money and laugh all the way to the bank. That's an absurd sum for a brief bit of work; a fool and his money are soon parted.

[Bluenorthwest]

69. Since people seem focused on it I'll mention that the Elton John AIDS Foundation is one of the

largest and most effective and does extremely vital work all over the world, including here in the United States granting millions of dollars here at home out of well over 200 million raised and spent world wide. It is a massive, important organization and the fact of the matter is that while you can hire almost any superstar to entertain privately if you have enough money Elton John does so exclusively as a mechanism for raising Foundation funds. Of course for his for profit public shows, anyone from Rush to the devil could buy a ticket and sit right down and the box office is much higher than a million bucks.
This link lists some of the 2014 grants from his foundation to groups in the US and Canada. I invite the smug among us to read about the six figure grants to the Transgender Law Center in Oakland and the National Black Justice Coalition and consider which they might have chosen to cut in order to avoid singing Tiny Dancer in the presence of Rush Limbaugh.
http://newyork.ejaf.org/2014-grants/

[MADem]

72. Thank you for that contribution to this discussion. These details are IMPRESSIVE.

I find it amusing when people who have no cash on the line try to tell people how much money they should give up for the sake of principles. I think if they were expected to match a penny of their own cash for a thousand of the famous person's, they'd snap that mouth shut right quick!

I love that EJ gives his "private concert" money to good causes, too. It makes me appreciate him all the more.

Again, thanks for that additional detail.

[msongs]

19. he is referring to himself as a bitch. self analysis is ok w/me nt

[MADem]

20. I hear that word twenty times a day, and mostly from women.

I occasionally hear a man call another man "that word," but that happens less frequently.

The censorship of the word here is another one of those things that makes DU an unrealistic reflection of the real world.

The reason it is censored is because some people take great offense, and some people like to goad and bait the people who take great offense.

I think the use of the word is a situational thing. You know if it's meant in a disparaging way, and if it's used as a trendy cultural expression.

There are a few words that will probably never get play here. The Bee Word is one, and the Cee Word is the other. There may be a few others, but those are the Mighty Two to Avoid!

[trumad]

25. I hear the word Pussy from colleagues at work---in a bar, etc.

Should that word be used here?

[Smarmie Doofus]

27. I hear dick and prick relentlessly.

Or used to when I was working.

What do we make of that?

[NaturalHigh]

30. That there is a double standard.

[trumad]

33. oh horseshit.

[NaturalHigh]

39. Excellent retort. Proud of you.

[NaturalHigh]

29. I don't care one way or the other.

I haven't used it in a long time because it makes some so apoplectic, but it doesn't bother me or anyone I know IRL.

[MADem]

56. Is your name Mrs. Slocumbe?

Are you talking about a feline pet? I find those sketches hilarious. So did the vast majority of the British and PBS-viewing public, for decades, in fact, and even today.

Context--as with the "bee word"--is everything.

That said, if you will cast your eyes back, and re-read what I wrote, I advised AGAINST using "that word" in this unrealistic, not-real-life environment.

I think we do have people here who have, to put it charitably, a great deal of difficulty with both "tone" and "context." And there's just no fixing that, I've concluded. I also think we have trolls and assholes here, who will sense a weakness and use "naughty words" to goad, bait and annoy DUers. Some people just can't get along. Some people like to make trouble. Some people just deliberately refuse to 'understand' because playing the vexed fool is so much more gratifying for them.

That's life on the internet.

[romanic]

24. I see and hear more women

refer to each other as bitches either as a compliment or as an insult. My take on it as a man; say it if you want to and defend yourself if someone gets offended by it.

[peacebird]

26. Love that song! Very powerful & self affirming, in my view.

Of course I use the word bitch & the word bastard.... Got no problem with either.

[NaturalHigh]

28. Tina Turner did a great remake on the Elton John Tribute album.

[NCTraveler]

34. "A little guidance here"

Use it as often and as loudly as you want. People will either judge you positively or negatively for the words you use in life. Not sure why you need guidance on something so amazingly simple. Shout the word from the rooftops if you would like. I have yet to make a place for it in my lexicon that actually adds to any conversation I am a part of. If it increases the level of intellect between you and your friends conversations, jam on it.

[bigwillq]

36. Society has become too PC, bitch.

I don't see much wrong with the word. It has its place, but should be used at appropriate times. Like, I wouldn't recommend standing up in church and shouting it. It has many definitions and uses in this modern time.

[ismnotwasm]

38. I only use it when referring to men

So much more satisfying.

[NaturalHigh]

50. Me too!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

43. How about some context?

The song is forty or so years old and is self referential:

I was justified when I was five
Raising cane, I spit in your eye
Times are changing, now the poor get fat
But the fever's gonna catch you when the bitch gets back

Eat meat on Friday that's alright
Even like steak on a Saturday night
I can bitch the best at your social do's
I get high in the evening sniffing pots of glue

I'm a bitch, I'm a bitch
Oh the bitch is back
Stone cold sober as a matter of fact
I can bitch, I can bitch
`Cause I'm better than you
It's the way that I move
The things that I do

I entertain by picking brains
Sell my soul by dropping names
I don't like those, my God, what's that
Oh it's full of nasty habits when the bitch gets back

[Nye Bevan]

45. Elton John is gay. So while he does have white male privilege,

he does not have straight white male privilege. By my calculations that permits him to have one hit song that focuses on the b-word, without anyone bitching about it, er I mean complaining about it.

[NaturalHigh]

48. Wow that's quite the analysis.

My compliments!

[romanic]

49. omg

[IMG][/IMG]

[MADem]

58. Furthermore, he's British, so he gets an "accent pass."

For some reason, many people in USA think that a British accent conveys a little "something more" that imbues the speaker with frequently undeserved gravitas and credibility. Thus, someone with a fishmonger's east end accent can wander over this side of the pond and with great authority, go on TV and tell people why they need a Wonder Mop or a Super Duper Fryer, and willing customers by the droves will get on that phone, dial an eight hundred number, and eagerly order two!

[lame54]

51. I always thought Guns N' Roses should have covered this song...

they could have done a great version

[PeteSelman]

52. B-word? What are we in kindergarten now?

Please tell me you're joking.

[MADem]

60. You need to look at the archives. This is a regular discussion topic.

Use the bee word, and odds are good your post will be alerted, and possibly hidden, if you get critical mass on your jury.

[LWolf]

54. Context is everything, isn't it?

As a lover of words, and the powerful, playful, eloquent, clever, effective use of words, I love them all.

I abhor the use of a word to express hate, or bigotry of any kind. It's the use of the word, the context, rather than the word itself.

So...I'm just fine with Elton John; I've been a big fan for about 45 years.

[seabeyond]

59. the bitch is back. what is your point willyt cause it is smelling rotten.

[NaturalHigh]

64. What is?

[mercuryblues]

61. Just what

to do about a song recorded 40 years ago? I will put it in the context of him playing for Limbaugh's wedding, despite the way he talks about the LBGQT community. Then has the gall to ask people to boycott D&G because he feels slighted over some remarks they made.

He is a privileged asswipe, whose ego is bigger than his 80's glasses.

[MineralMan]

62. What's your point, WillyT?

Why are you bringing this up today. An old Elton John song? WTF?

Surely there are current topics you might want to discuss, right?

[Orsino]

63. I was just thinking we needed another why-can't-I-use-it thread. n/t

[Glassunion]

70. I hear that AC/DC uses the N-word in a song...

Or is that worthy of its own OP?

[Bluenorthwest]

68. This is like when Bill O'Reilly criticizes rappers for using 'the N word' in creative works that

depict their own community and relationships with the larger society. I don't know, WillyT, what will you straight white people do about these minorities with their self referencing verbiage that might include words which, if said by others, could be taken differently?

Your reasons for posting this would be a good thing for you to share with the DU community. 40 year old song.....

[Starry Messenger]

71. Anyone here can use whatever word they want.

What you are looking for is probably to feel like you don't have to feel bad for it. We aren't in charge of your feelings, and we get the right to say whatever we want about it right back at you.

Fire away.