The Bernie Sanders race argument is a cheap shot.

[Renew Deal]

There is no good reason to believe that Sanders has a race issue. The basis of the criticism is that the crowd in VT was not very diverse and Sanders didn't address race issues. But look at the demographics of VT. According to the 2010 Census:

White: 94%
Black: 1% (103% change from 2000)
Hispanic 1%
Asian 1%
Multi-racial 2%

http://projects.nytimes.com/census/2010/map

I don't know where you're going to find diversity in a state with these demographics. If Sanders has a rally in NYC or DC and the crowd is not diverse then there's an issue to discuss. Beyond that I think the criticism is unfair, and a cheap shot, but predictable. I knew that when the rally in Burlington was announced this criticism was coming. How could it not? Sanders and his people need to be wiser about these issues. People hate the staging candidates do, but they do it for a reason and one of those reasons is to avoid this type of controversy.

[MohRokTah]

1. All politicians have a race issue.

If a politician does not directly address policy issues that affect various racial constituencies, that politician may find it difficult to win over those constituencies in both primary and general elections. This is simply a political fact, not a cheap shot.

Since that was the point made, I don't see why there is so much whining going on from some amongst the Bernie Sanders supporters on DU. This statement does not imply that you are amongst those who are whining. You were not whining which is why I engaged you with a reasoned response as to the issue that was raised not actually being a cheap shot

[davidpdx]

138. Please tell me whether you get on DUers that support Hillary Clinton that whine when they feel

she's been attacked? Shoe on the other foot, no?

[Buzz Clik]

2. Agreed.

Welcome to American politics. It's dirty, ugly, and irrational.

[MannyGoldstein]

3. Since his opponents can only lose

when comparing economic or social track records, they need to figure out something.

Coming next: coming from a mountainous state, Bernie doesn't understand the needs of flatlanders.

[el_bryanto]

4. Wait a second - I come from Florida a very flat state.

I never thought of that - will Bernie recognize how the desperate needs of us Flatlanders to depose our governor (possibly by throwing water on him and watching him melt).

Bryant

[MannyGoldstein]

26. FL - the flatest state

Add to it the differences in weather... No, Bernie's not your best bet.

Regards,

TWM

[NorthCarolina]

42. Then Sanders is your guy

to fight climate change. I know if I lived only a few feet above sea level I'd be looking for a candidate that addresses the issue of climate change in such a matter of fact type of way.

[Bobbie Jo]

10. First of all

Bernie doesn't have "opponents" on this site. Supporting another candidate (or remaining undecided) does not automatically make one an "opponent." I suspect you used that word rather purposely.

Secondly, the analogy you chose to use here is dismissive beyond belief. Comparing minority concerns to some made up, mindless demographic, just demonstrates how completely out of touch you really are when it comes to this particular issue. Once again.

Speaking of track records...
Perhaps you should listen more and bloviate a little less on this particular subject.

[bettyellen]

12. Yeah, obviously racial issues are fake concerns to POC.....

Got it. I recall when they pretended to be upset by watermelon jokes too. And how about those women- all faking concerns about their reproductive choices being outlawed. So hilarious - those SJWs!
What will they pretend to care about next!!

[Maedhros]

46. The point is not that their concern is fake,

it's that a very, very, very small number of posters are making the outlandish and insulting claim that Bernie is somehow not in favor of total racial equality.

Please don't add yourself to that list.

[seabeyond]

50. "claim that Bernie is somehow not in favor of total racial equality." bullshit

that is NOT what is being said.

not by a very very very small number. or ANY number of duers. at all.

again, you are making up an false premise for your argument.

[bettyellen]

52. That is exactly what the poster implied. The claim is that Bernie has not reached out

Since he declared. Not that he is racist.but a few here persist with that bullshit.
That his supporters here are setting their hair on fire claiming that they are accusing Bernie of racism- not fucking helping.
Honestly many of them seem to be working to alienate and silence POC. Implying their concerns are phony- as was done above- is pretty fucking over the top. Implying people who want to discuss race are "baiters" is RW bullshit. Sorry.
I can't imagine anyone thinks this actually helps Sanders.

[BrotherIvan]

62. He officially announced TWO days ago

And now posters (mostly white) are slamming him for not speaking enough about racial issues?? For real? And even when given ample evidence to the contrary, that Sanders is in fact very damn good on equality issues, you all persist? And now the calls for "letting it go" and claiming that people's "hair is on fire" is supposed to be some higher ground? NO.

[seabeyond]

66. it was a black blogger that had nothing to do with du, AND i personally think

that crowd is not indicative nor warrant discussion on social issue.

in essence, i disagree with the comment about the white crowd. there is plenty of time to listen to sanders.

yet... the bullshit you started last night, accusing duers have calling sanders a racist, is totally fabricated by you and created the endless accusations, false, wrong, accusations that anyone claimed sanders is a racist.

[BrotherIvan]

81. The blogger is a WHITE WOMAN

[seabeyond]

89. then my bad. i thought it was a black woman. nt

[BrotherIvan]

95. Ok, now we're getting somewhere

Perhaps now you can see why I made my post which was an angry reaction to a white blogger trying to co-opt black issues for her own argument. I didn't start it, but I did call it out for being disingenuous which it certainly was.

[seabeyond]

97. no. and still you said duers and ME were calling sanders a racist. and no one was. no.

[BrotherIvan]

99. You win!

Gold star for you.

[seabeyond]

100. i could use a gold star would help me to do an advance search. nt

[appalachiablue]

139. Posted by someone in the 'Not Good Enough, Bernie' OP, it's this woman's blog from May 27

One of her blog commenters noted on May 28 that Bernie has a long civil rights history including protesting segregated housing against blacks at the Univ. of Chicago, joining SNCC and marching on DC and Selma.

Since then, she's now posted about defending too big to fail banks-

http://immasmartypants.blogspot.com/p/about.html

[appalachiablue]

143. So you know this is the blog writer of 'Not good enough, Bernie', Nancy Letourneau

of Horizons. This was posted in the DU OP of the same name two days ago. Since then Ms. Letourneau has posted a blog in defense of too big to fail banks-



http://immasmartypants.blogspot.com/p/about.html

[BrotherIvan]

171. Yes, her neoliberal blogposts often show up in the BOG

I'm so glad she got to lecture on Bernie's civil rights credentials.

[appalachiablue]

173. Sorry to know that, but now I recall hearing of the strange blogsite once or twice.

So she's a permanent fixture, good to know.

[BrotherIvan]

174. Apologists love apologia

It's like a warm blanket.

[bettyellen]

67. It's all about his ONE first speech, so yeah.

Set yourself on fire if you can't handle the criticism.
But don't repeat the lie I've seen here again and again- no one called Sanders a racist. That is a fucked up thing to say.

[seabeyond]

69. he started it last night with his OP. so everyone gets to play in it today. nt

[bettyellen]

72. Well it's making some Sanders supporters look pretty rude and dismissive...

But I have seen the same on both sides.
I am over it. This is excavation why so many hate politics.

[seabeyond]

75. i do not go into the ones that dismiss sanders, by clinton supporters.

i am done with the.... he has a chance in htis campaign, and only time will tell.... if he pulls in the number.

but, there is a big difference from saying, ... sanders cannot win, and accusing people of calling sanders a racist.

[BrotherIvan]

80. Haha

ya, that honesty meter is broke

[seabeyond]

84. you did NOT start an OP late last night accusing people of saying, sanders is a racist?

you didnt do that?

cause you accused me of saying sanders is a racist a number of times. not that you were able to link to me saying sanders is a racist.

[Maedhros]

68. Their concerns are certainly unfounded when it comes to Bernie.

The man has been stellar in regard to racial equality.

Sad to see you're buying into the false narrative. It is incredibly disingenuous to try and claim that Bernie supporters are minimizing the concerns of minorities.

[bettyellen]

94. I think the criticism was of one speech, and that it is correct.

I don't think it's the biggest gaffe ever, but youd never know it from the reactions of his supporters.
No one is holding him up as a racist. Those that claim so are making shit up and it's embarrassing for DU.

[Maedhros]

101. You're just helping throw muck on the wall to see what will stick.

/bye.

[bettyellen]

147. If you think that is muck, good luck surviving till the primary.

Sanders seems like a great candidate. But you'd easily get a negative impression from his supporters here. Sucks.

[appalachiablue]

156. Being warned that they're just getting started & you'll never survive till the primaries

is quite a statement, even a threat. We're to be harassed AND worried now. Ooooh, scary-

[BrotherIvan]

64. Exactly

It is FAKE. It is co-opting of REAL issues in order to win some kind of points. THAT is the problem in a nutshell.

[MannyGoldstein]

61. Totally misrepresenting my words. nt

[bettyellen]

65. Nope- you're saying quite clearly that the issue is a ginned up one quite clearly.

[MannyGoldstein]

73. it's pretty clear to any reader.

Have a nice day.

[bettyellen]

93. Awww, feeling constantly misunderstood must bum you out....

Possums can relate, lol.

[Mojorabbit]

32. + a kabillion. nt

[MisterP]

53. coming from small-town New England, it's either the Lottery, Brown Jenkin,

or He Who Walks Behind the Rows for us!

[NCTraveler]

5. The only way it is not a cheap shot...

is if it is discussed in the terms of campaign optics. Beyond that, it's crap.

[leftofcool]

6. But, it isn't about demographics.

No one in their right mind would accuse Senator Sanders of being racist. He has an excellent record on civil rights. The problem is, he did not address one of the most important issues that is starring is right in the face. He did not appear to address one of the most important issues concerning our Black brothers and sisters. It doesn't mean he won't it is just that he didn't in his opening rally. I suspect that his campaign manager will see that these issues are addressed in some later rally.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

7. If you're a Democrat and are seeking the Democratic Party nomination

for president, you cannot win unless you capture a majority of the black American vote.

Thus, race is ALWAYS important.

I would argue that race is centrally important and crucial, even all that we have experienced with President Obama and his family, the racial backlash that black Americans have experienced with the Supreme Court decisions, gerrymandering and redistricting, state level attempts to keep blacks from voting, police brutality, unequal justice under the law, incredibly high unemployment and poverty rates.

I thought Bernie was a champion of all these things, particularly poverty, unemployment, etc.

Race is always important. I don't care where you are or who you are.

Not a cheap shot at all.

[BrotherIvan]

25. But the idea that he is ignoring race in his speeches is not true

And somehow implying that he not only turns a blind eye but doesn't care about race is a cheap shot. He is currently making an argument for getting the economy back on track. He specifically mentions the high unemployment in black neighborhoods and among black youth. That is part of an argument that people need jobs and young people a path for the future as one of the things that government can do and does very well. He is trying to come up with solutions for specific problems with quantifiable statistics in his speeches.

What might confuse some people is that he's not throwing off platitudes that most politicians do. "I believe in equality for all!" is a statement, but not a very deep one. We should be demanding policy proposals from politicians and not letting them get away with platitudes. Hiring a couple of minorities to be spokespeople doesn't count. What does a politician promise to do and how do they plan to get it done? What is their record? When one starts really looking at that, then campaign blurbs don't mean much.

The campaign is just getting started. I have actually not seen or heard Clinton's platform at all. If she comes out with a *concrete plan* for ending police violence, ending the war on drugs, fixing an unequal justice system and ending mass incarceration, restoring voting rights, jobs and education concentrated in black neighborhoods, raising the life expectancy, bridging the massive personal wealth gap, and comes out strongly in favor of reparations, I will crawl over broken glass to vote for her. But since I didn't see any of those things in 2008, I am not sure I will believe them now.

[JustAnotherGen]

35. I just saw this op - and responded to another one on his demographics in VT

It's going to be interesting to see him evolve in his approach now that he has a diverse population to appeal to.

And be careful with Clinton and LiberalStalwart . . . she no likey Clinton.

[BrotherIvan]

38. Ok, you made me laugh

my bad.

[JustAnotherGen]

39. I just wanted to warn you!

I love her to bits and pieces - but she no likey HRC!

[JustAnotherGen]

36. Pssst - I gave brother ivan a heads up

On Clinton.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026740357#post35

[JaneyVee]

8. Meanwhile, the vast majority of actual Socialists I've met....

Have been non-white, blue collar workers. So I'm sure Sanders will have more diverse rallies. You can't blame the lack of Vermont demographic diversity on Bernie. Not to mention his rally was on a tuesday after memorial day when most people are back at work.

[DanTex]

9. No it's not.

The argument isn't that the crowd was too white, it's that he didn't discuss racial issues, for example, the recent string of police shootings, in the opening speech of his campaign. The fact that he did this in front of an almost all-white crowd made for bad politics, but that's not the real issue.

Beyond that, it also speaks to what his priorites are going to be if elected. He's made clear that his priority is, in a nutshell, economic inequality. Which is great. But if there are people who think that racial injustice and inequality should be a major priority, not a minor one, it is entirely fair for them to look at Bernie and feel unsatisfied. And there's really no way around this.

[bettyellen]

14. Exactly- and the reaction here claiming there were accusations of racism is BS

Sorry but playing the reverse racism card is what is beyond the pale. Instead of listening and giving the criticism any thought, they attacked the OP using the raising of racial issues to discredit the OP. That was pretty disgusting.

[BrotherIvan]

27. Using incendiary photos in a post to discuss the issue is very disgusting

If the poster had wanted to talk about Sanders' speech not containing enough about race specifically, that would be an entirely different issue. But that was not the intent of that post. The intent of that post was to draw a line between what the (white) blogger saw as a lack of attention to racial issues with hundreds of years of oppression culminating in horrific police violence. That is dishonest, disgusting and low. Anyone who acts like that isn't the case is lying, straight up. It's there; everybody saw it. And there is no justification for it in the world.

[bettyellen]

44. It is one incendiary photo to illustrate an incendiary issue - one that people fear will be ignored.

The poster did talk about this very serious issue being ignored. That was pretty much the whole point. In no way did they say that Bernie was linked to the issue or was racist. Sorry- it's not there- and it is a horrendous allegation.

Not sure you're problem with the image- it is very current and sums up an important issue pretty fucking well. Not sure it's on you to decide it is too incendiary to use when it sums up the issue pretty damned well without a word. Do you really want to be telling people to soft pedal their feelings by not using the image? Or pro scribing where and how to use the image? Honestly that's kind of fucked up.

[BrotherIvan]

48. The assertion had no basis in fact

None whatsoever. Based on ONE speech, the poster is trying to say that the person who just marched in Selma and gave a speech about civil rights in March of this year is somehow ignoring the struggle of the African American community. They did not do their homework regarding the accusation, but slammed him to win imaginary points. It is dishonest to the core. And no, that image was only used to suit an agenda. It is indefensible and as a person of color, I find it very disgusting for people to co-opt the issues in the black community to suit their whims. Apparently, I'm not the only one.

[bettyellen]

63. Baloney- the criticism IS about the one kick off.

Which was not inclusive. Bernie needs to do some broader outreach if he's going to make any impact.
Hopefully his people can actually stand a critique of this one important event and do better next time.

Pretending people are calling him racist over this is fucking insulting. I truly think a few people here are out to screw Bernie by alienating people. Even if that's not their intention, they are doing an excellent job of it.

[BrotherIvan]

77. I am a person of color

And I think white people on DU counting the number of dark people in the audience and extrapolating that out to mean that a candidate somehow is ignoring issues of race in a way to prop up your chosen candidate is off the charts disgusting. Yeah, he didn't bus people in to make Vermont look less white. His optics don''t suit you. Let's all ignore the issues and argue about how Bernie Sanders condones the history of American racism because he didn't effect his best southern preacher voice. Too bad, he could have been a contender.

I will tell you that in my neighborhood, they don't make this wholly fictional distinction between social justice and economic justice that has been planted on DU by upper middle class people stumping for an agenda. They are working class people who will tell you they WANT good jobs, education for their children, healthcare and a social safety net. Those things effect them just as much as whites when they are drowning in economic hardship and their kids don't have much of a future. Surprise! All of you social justice warriors are saying they don't deserve that and that you are looking out for their best interests by policing optics? It is agenda driven and transparent as hell. So glad there is only a handful of people who are pushing it here.

[freshwest]

113. I see your agreement. But if is all economics, why was black skin an excuse for slavery for life?

None of the 'indentured' white servants had that forced on them.

[BrotherIvan]

115. I'm not sure I understand the question

If I were to take a guess, I would say these are white supporters of HRC trying to grasp onto a single issue in order to win points for their candidate. They have no standing to make such arguments in the first place. It was an agenda driven hit piece with incendiary photos used in the most craven way.

To say that a politician with one of the strongest records for civli rights is totally ignoring people of color is straight lying. It was a single speech and he was addressing issues that effect everyone, even people of color. If it had been six months of stump speeches without a single mention of racial issues, then yeah, people would have a point. Now, it's just low blows to try to prop up their chosen candidate whose record pales in comparison when it comes to civil rights and African Americans in particular.

More than that, it is co-opting real and important issues in order to win points on a damn message board. And that is low.

[appalachiablue]

137. Well said Brother Ivan.

[freshwest]

153. I'm not sure where I was going there, I'm tired. And that OP was weird. The pics

seemed to have nothing to do with the article, which also didn't make sense.

Also, I am tired of listening to white people talking about black people like they know better.

I think I meant to say 'argument' instead of 'agreement' last night but I was tired. I try to grasp what each poster is really saying and I want there to be peace amongst DUers.

I've seen too many times in my life and I'm in my sixties, where middle class black families, professionals, union folks, etc. were nudged out of property, jobs, etc. by blatant theft and work by government and private forces by racism... Yes, it was economics in the end. But racism is what allowed it to happen and was a direct factor taken into account on who was to be spared and who was going to be shafted. We can have a circular argument on this here.

Racism is an underlying cancer that I don't see as having gone away, in fact the institutionalized violence against black men and women appears to be worse now because it's in the open. As Americans, we should have learned - but some people are running from it. Others are playing as if they don't know. Others say it doesn't exist or doesn't matter. It's still seen as business as usual and it never should have been.

And I have stated before Sanders announced his run that I will vote for him in the primary as my preferred choice. I get tired of terms like Hillbot just as I got tired of Obamabot. But around here, some people are acting like it's an article of faith like being Protestant or Catholic, and I don't play that game.

I accept no kudos as someone who jumped into my Bernie video thread to trash HRC when I said I was for Bernie. Suddenly he thought I was a member of he choir. It's this kind of thing is why I won't post in some threads or groups as if I need to pass a religious test. It's a big turn off. And I am sure that neither HRC or Bernie act anything like people at DU do - or they would not be worth a vote. If I wanted to vote for someone that acts as some do here, I'd be a bagger. it's low down and a turn off.

I post in the HRC group and found them to be friendly, but she was never my first choice. They know and accept that just as they know I have a foot in both sides. I don't have to pick one over the other, or love one and hate the other. We have not got a nominee yet.

The thought of a Bush, Cruz, Walker, etc. in the White House would be a victory for the billionaire class Bernie's running against. He's not running against one person, and this personality routine is a huge turnoff. Those who say they will not vote at all if HRC gets the nod, are not doing it to follow Bernie's lead, he knows the GOP is fully owned by the Koch brothers, etc. He sees the real enemy, and it is not HRC.

I am missing some good positive news because I am sick of pile on threads and use Ignore. Life is too short to argue with those who are negative all the time from any side of these arguments. They are not going to change a thing.

I've already talked privately with the OP author about being more clear, etc. I'm not sure what the post was about. I didn't see the pics at first, my browser didn't show them so I didn't get the entire incendiary effect that you must have seen.

There have been a number of people turned off by Bernie's supporters. Because of the attack mode. I put such people on Ignore. I do the same and or correct HRC supporters if I see them doing it. They don't answer me and if they keep it up, I put them on Ignore. I don't come here for this level of bull.

To the economics point, I believe that black people should be a legally protected minority since they were a legally abused minority since before the nation was founded. That the poverty is generational is no news to me, I'm not sure why it would be to anyone, and I've spoken of it in the past on this board.

But if the post you reacted to so strongly was wrong (I thought it was so utterly confusing I didn't know if it was wrong or right) it was also wrong for you to post an OP intimating that DUers were calling Bernie racist. No one in their right mind would say that.

I don't believe it's true of HRC, either, by the way. You don't get as far as they have with some provincial, petty bullcrap like that motivating one.

My favorite candidate would have been Van Jones. He'll never be given a chance and has moved on. Until then, Bernie is my man... I've always said that but don't want to be in the Bernie crowd here as some of the crowd is more 'anti-HRC' than pro-Bernie. Bernie is not, either, the ultra liberal savior some seem determined to wave in everyone's face.

For every vote that people like to pull out that HRC did wrong, I can pull out one that the same group would not like done by Bernie. It doesn't prove that he is unprincipled, an opportunist, or whatever perjoratives people want to apply to the person they don't like. He is pragmatic and about Jobs first. No matter what the jobs are, so long as they keep up a standard of living that people can feel free with

And it's the person some don't like, what I often see are people pulling up things to bolster their disdain. They are filtering and it says more about them than the person they are attacking.

Black people will be supporting whoever they choose, as they are not, any more than any other group a monolith. Nor are they a pawn to be used by white politicans to win elections and then discarded. The disaffection of black voters against political parties is real and it is justified.

I'll be voting for the Democrat no matter who it is, BTW. I can't afford to pretend I don't know what I know, about how the GOP intends to treat us.

[seabeyond]

154. +1, all the way thru your long post. exactly. nt

[BrotherIvan]

178. "Also, I am tired of listening to white people talking about black people like they know better."

You and me both.

But the idea of equivocation doesn't work in the instance of their votes.

For every vote that people like to pull out that HRC did wrong, I can pull out one that the same group would not like done by Bernie.

I think that there is a hell of a lot of difference in their voting record and that's the point. So far, the biggest slam is his gun vote. But some of the big kahunas, such as IWR, Patriot Act, backing welfare reform, vocally supporting three strikes, and lobbying for more incarcerations.

Despite trumpeting her work on behalf of “mothers and children,” she and her husband worked to reduce federal assistance to women and children living in poverty. In her book, Living History, Clinton touts her role: “By the time Bill and I left the White House, welfare rolls had dropped 60 percent.” This 60% drop was not due to a 60% decrease in poverty. Instead, it was a reduction in federal benefits to those living in poverty, many of them working poor, like those employed at Wal-Mart.

In Michelle Alexander’s book, The New Jim Crow, she notes that it was Hillary Clinton who lobbied Congress to expand the drug war and mass incarceration in ways that we continue to live with today, and that have a significantly more harmful impact on black and brown people than white people. According to The Drug Policy Alliance, people of color are much more likely to be stopped, searched, arrested, convicted, harshly sentenced and saddled with a lifelong criminal record due to being unfairly targeted for drug law violations. Even though white people and people of color use drugs at about the same rates, it is black and brown people’s bodies that continue to fuel the machine of mass incarceration.

http://www.racismreview.com/blog/2015/04/12/hillary-clinton-good-for-white-feminism/

I think we need to be very clear about what we're talking about. These are very important issues and should not be thrown around for political games.

[appalachiablue]

163. Europeans did not enslave other Europeans for life, esp. in western Europe per se like they

did black Africans and Native American Indians who were not white, Christian or European and who were considered racially inferior- the justifications. (There was peonage in Latin America and serfs in areas of Europe like Russia and Poland into the mid 1800s, and of course feudal serfdom in western Europe before the French Revolution).

There was a concept of not enslaving other Christians I believe. In general poor European whites, people seeking a new life or those in prison that authorities wanted to get rid of went to the Americas as labor, to find employment or join relatives. Benjamin Franklin's grandmother came over to Massachusetts as a young woman servant of a cleric and worked off her 'time/debt'. An ancestor of mine was indentured in Virginia in the 1600s.

These people were 'indentured' legally and financially which means 'indebted' to pay back the DEBT they owed for the cost of their passage to shippers who transported them to the New World or other costs like food and shelter which they worked off with their labor and service.

The term period for indenture was usually 5-7 years, but could be extended if the employer/manager was abusive, cruel, or injured or impregnated servants and then claimed slower work productivity as an excuse to lengthen the time of servitude. This was not that rare and some never made it out. Worse was done to slaves like Sojourner Truth whose New York masters delayed her from freedom by law in that state in the 1820s over a hand injury which the owner claimed resulted in her having lowered work output.

In the mid 1600s political dissidents and POWS in Ireland and Scotland were shipped by the English to the Caribbean labor fields to dispose and work them in the crops fields. This was called being 'transported', usually involuntarily.

In Islands like Barbados being transported was considered a death sentence due to the hot, tropical climate and harsh conditions of working in labor intensive sugar cane production with minimal food, clothing and shelter to survive.

The same was done with prisoners, troublemakers and prostitutes from the British Isles who were shipped to Australia where they were useful as needed labor for settlement.

In the US in the late 1800s, children, usually immigrants or orphans who had no means or family were sent on trains out West to be workers. They were called the train orphans or children. Someone posted about it here several months ago in reference to one of their ancestors.

The history of Africans who were enslaved and sent to the Americas is a pox and scourge that remains today, an evil manifestation of human brutality to the extreme that has few or no other parallels in western history except the Holocaust imo.

[freshwest]

167. Thanks for the primer, I knew most of that already. My question was rhetorical and specific. n/t

[appalachiablue]

172. That's great, I just elaborated on what you brought up, but knew already- why and how whites

were not enslaved permanently but blacks and Indians were. Btw, it's embarrassing how many people Don't know this history. Next time I'll realize you don't want a reply to a post you already know the answer to. Very good.

[appalachiablue]

116. Note, 'optics' has been used at least 7 times in 2 different posts I've read in the last 30 minutes.

Same with memes St. Bernard, Neophyte and idealist. It's coordinated (poorly), planned and incentivized. Not to mention unoriginal. It's interesting seeing this so far, it indicates a lot.

[BrotherIvan]

117. Yes, they are criticizing him for his "optics"

While creating a thread with the worst optics ever. Let's put offensive pictures in our thread and then act completely innocent and victimized when people get mad. Now we are being told that none of that really happened and the two hundred people that responded didn't see what they saw. So I guess gaslighting is a favorite sport. I haven't heard the other slams but I probably will.

Here is another one from someone that swore up and down she was a Bernie supporter and to whom I even apologized for questioning her strong support. LOL.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026739087#post34

So I guess the "we're not calling Bernie a racist, but you know he is" *wink wink* is still going.

[enigmatic]

118. You've been fantastic the past couple of days with your posts

Spot-on, and I thank you.

[BrotherIvan]

119. Wow, thank you

I still can't believe it is ongoing, but I guess it's the only issue they can latch onto until they find another one.

[Pooka Fey]

131. Exactly. It's "Gaslighting". You nailed it.

Let's put offensive pictures in our thread and then act completely innocent and victimized when people get mad. Now we are being told that none of that really happened and the two hundred people that responded didn't see what they saw.

You are so nailing this, BrotherIvan.

[appalachiablue]

136. Charles Boyer would be proud!

[RufusTFirefly]

151. If that person is a Bernie supporter, I'm Rand Paul's love child.

One of the charter members of my ignore list, in fact.

[BrotherIvan]

175. It seems there are new "suppoters" being made every day on this board

So bizarre and wildly transparent.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6746326

[freshwest]

112. I told poster the OP should have been formatted differently to not give a misconception. But I agree

with onpatrol about black lives being the one thing that supercedes all the rest.

Because it's not about jobs or class or wealth. It's walking around with a target on one's back. It's time to make this the NUMBER ONE issue in this country. Much evil springs from trying to avoid the changes needed.

While I would like to follow the 'a rising tide lifts all boats' which is Sander's plan, it has not proven to be so historically. Even if it makes the many comfortable.

So while that can be done, race (etc.) must be dealt with because from it income inequality -and a system that made ISIS look tame- springs forth. It has justified what would never be tolerated by white people.

Signed ~ Card-Carrying White Person.

[BrotherIvan]

120. I made a post about this subject

I invite you to come over and discuss the issue in depth as it has been fruitful and interesting.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12809377

But I want to put an excerpt here

In the following graph, you will see that the median net worth of white households is $141,900. For African American families it is $11,000 and for Latinos it is $13,700. Pause and consider that for a moment. Net worth for the entire household. What you are looking at is generational poverty. It is a poverty that denies access to better education, to fair housing, to being able to move to an area with good jobs, to employer and police abuse, to depression and despair. It is crushing and it needs to be addressed.



So in this case, I argue that talking about economics does include talking about people of color. I don't disagree in any way that police violence needs to be addressed IMMEDIATELY. And not only that, I think if Bernie goes heavy on that issue he can not only pull Hillary to the left, he can pull Obama to the left and maybe he will do something about it as his administration has the power to act now. That would truly be amazing. People are dying every day. It needs to stop right now.

But trying to say that talking about the enormous wealth inequality in this country and the lack of access to good jobs, higher education, healthcare, and housing is in itself discriminatory is nothing but propaganda. And bad propaganda at that.

[bettyellen]

157. Great post- but I really didn't see anyone say anything more than his lack of addressing

The issue was bad- not really that his focus on the economy was discriminatory, but that it is in no way a substitute for talking about the violence and civil rights abuses that POC endure at the hands of police and the criminal justice system. Just like it is no substitute for talking about the huge roll back in women's right to reproductive freedom. Many of us sincerely believe every candidate out there should be talking - and trying to do more - about these issues. To dismiss them and pretend these critical issues will disappear once everyone's fortunes improve betrays a huge lack of empathy. That's concerning.
To take it a step further and imply these concerns are manufactured -as a few popular posters recently have- that's just fucked up. I hope no one gets the idea that Bernie actually agrees with some of his "supporters" here. And I put that in scare quotes because after the last few days, I'm not sure all are actually doing Bernie any favors. It is what it is.

[seabeyond]

161. i have concluded this morning, this fabricated, sanders is a racist, is simple another way for pro

sanders to shove social justice to the back of the bus, like they have for a good couple months now.

now, if anyone talks about it, they are accused of calling sanders a racist.

too fuckin' offensively convenient. and now, after a day addressing this and thinking, listening to others, .... i am more pissed than i was before being accused of calling sanders a racist.

fuck that.

aint going to the back of the bus

calling sanders a racist, has just become part of the conversation for pro sanders. something fabricated and made up, as we watched it fabricated and made up, is making it thru out all conversation

[bettyellen]

168. Yep- and people here saying that SJWs are faking concerns-

My take on it is that they are faking support for Sanders. I don't believe for a minute they think they are helping their candidate. I'm not buying it.

[seabeyond]

169. how does one reconcile insisting on exclusive, when gaining votes is a must for a win, is the right

thing to do.

talk about fuzzy math.

[freshwest]

110. Agreed and I'm not interested in seeing white people get into a pissing contest on who's a racist.

[Tarheel_Dem]

29. ^^^^^^ THREAD WINNER ^^^^^^ If only we could rec posts.

[RufusTFirefly]

45. Bernie has been stressing 8 universal subjects. Implicit in several of them is the issue of race

What Bernie believes

Income and wealth inequality: In the United States today we have the most unequal wealth and income distribution of any major country on earth -- worse than at any time since the 1920s. This is an economy that must be changed in fundamental ways.

Jobs and income: In my view, we need a massive federal jobs program which puts millions of our people back to work. We must end our disastrous trade policies. We need to raise the minimum wage to a living wage. And we have to fight for pay equity for women.

Campaign finance reform: As a result of the Citizens United Supreme Court decision, American democracy is being undermined by the ability of the Koch brothers and other billionaire families. These wealthy contributors can literally buy politicians and elections by spending hundreds of millions of dollars in support of the candidates of their choice. We need to overturn Citizens United and move toward public funding of elections so that all candidates can run for office without being beholden to the wealthy and powerful.

Climate change: Climate change is real, caused by human activity and already devastating our nation and planet. The United States must lead the world in combating climate change and transforming our energy system away from fossil fuels and toward energy efficiency and sustainability.

College affordability: Every person in this country who has the desire and ability should be able to get all the education they need regardless of the income of their family. This is not a radical idea. In Germany, Scandinavia and many other countries, higher education is either free or very inexpensive. We must do the same.

Health care: Shamefully, the United States remains the only major country on earth that does not guarantee health care to all people. The United States must move toward a Medicare-for-all single-payer system. Health care is a right, not a privilege.

Poverty: The United States has more people living in poverty than at almost any time in the modern history of our country. I believe that in a democratic, civilized society none of our people should be hungry or living in desperation. We need to expand Social Security, not cut it. We need to increase funding for nutrition programs, not cut them.

Tax reform: We need real tax reform which makes the rich and profitable corporations begin to pay their fair share of taxes. We need a tax system which is fair and progressive. Children should not go hungry in this country while profitable corporations and the wealthy avoid their tax responsibilities by stashing their money in the Cayman Islands.

[uponit7771]

126. There should be no more "implicit", come out with the out front issues of the voting block and addre

... it and don't homogenize that voting blocks issues into things like money and equal access.

Me being 21 times more likely to be shot by poice has nothing to do with money, that's what the media is pushing

[mythology]

71. How do you separate wealth/income inequality from race?

Yes there are different approaches one might take to mitigate poverty among minorities as opposed to whites, and the same applies to men and women as well, but the fundamental goal is the same.

As someone who doesn't think Sanders will win the nomination, much less be elected President, I think this is a non-issue.

Now the fact that he didn't have Ben and Jerry mail me some free ice cream, there's a real issue.

[DanTex]

91. They are related but not identical.

Maybe Bernie thinks that racial issues are subsumed by his talk of income inequality, but there are a lot of people who don't think that, and they have a valid argument as well. Which means it's perfectly fair to criticize Bernie for not directly talking about race.

[uponit7771]

127. Me being 21 times more likely to be shot by the police has NOTHING to do with income, it's my skin

... and not how much money I make

[seabeyond]

150. this is the bluntly obvious reality. i have said this repeatedly, no impact. i do not get it. same

with women, dying from reproduction rights lost, same with gays with basic human rights. economic justice will not fix that.

people dont even blink an eye. i do not get it.

the man in walmart, simply buying a fuckin' gift for his little boy. shot. dead. ... dead. and the cops... ooops, sorry, our bad. shouldnt have happened. meh.

my brain cannot get past that.

to listen to you, being the one in the position to experience the unjust and threat, .... zillion times heightened in feeling.

[uponit7771]

152. The media has homganized the issue into "the cops wont murder your kids if your rich" and made the

... killings in Baltimore the fault of the poor people vs the murder cops.

Some here have bought into that

[TheKentuckian]

184. Not everything is real as a heart attack but NOTHING is bullshit.

It seems the disparity even when controlled for black men is well above statistical noise and I'd also bet poor whites are all but infinitely more likely to be gunned down than rich whites though I'm sure poor whites are much less likely to catch lead than poor blacks.

However, no question it is disproportionate to claim otherwise is way off base. Being wealthy or even comfortable doesn't put a black man at parity with a white dude at the same class level but the odds of being blown the way on the street drop dramatically.

Of course we don't get full value of our class status but to pretend it is somehow meaningless is ludicrous. Flat out untrue no matter what it feels like reality doesn't back the claim.

All things being equal, you always come out better with a wad of ca$h.

No way to seriously claim for every Mike Brown their is some well off being blasted.

[Exilednight]

74. Economic inequality is directly linked to race issues. If this country were to

Drastically reduce income inequality, you would see a drastic reduction in race related incidents.

Will it solve 100% of the problem? No.

But it will help reduce it.

[seabeyond]

76. people disagree on that statement you are making.

[Exilednight]

79. They can disagree all they want, but its the truth. n/t

[seabeyond]

83. a person can be economically comfortable, still experience social injustice. no, not fact.

[Exilednight]

85. Go back and read what I posted and stop trying to put words in my mouth. n/t

[seabeyond]

92. no. just cause you lost the argument, does not mean there is wiggle room out. you CLAIMED

that one is in hand with the other. that was FACT

i showed you it is not fact. meh... admitting being wrong isnt so big a deal. i just did it in a post above.

[Exilednight]

106. There is no argument. There is only the truth, and I stayed the truth. Have the day you deserve.

[uponit7771]

128. Me being 21 times more likely to be shot by the police has NOTHING to do with income, it's my skin

[Exilednight]

135. Not true. If you lived in a middle-class neighborhood, your chances would drastically

Be reduced.

[uponit7771]

145. The guy shot in the back in the Walmart and the guy shot in the back in Utah lived in middle class

...neighborhoods and they still were murdered by cops

The cops murdering black males don't ask what neighborhood they live in before shooting so there's nothing backing..up what you said

People don't riot or protest because they're poor, they riot and protest because they're being threatened and opporessed by people who are supposed to serve them

[Exilednight]

155. You're either oversimplifying the problem, or you're being

Intellectually dishonest, or you're just full of shit.


I live in the DC area. I traveled to Baltimore to cover the riots for the news agency I work for. I interviewed over 100 people. As much as those riots are about cops killing minorities, they're just as much about the lack of public spending in the community.

People complained just as much about lack of education, lack of good paying jobs, lack of public services as they did about how the police treated people.

There will always be a handful of assholes who are racially charged, but it doesn't have to be the norm.

[uponit7771]

158. You're not going to back up what you said with anything empirical doesn't mean I'm full of anything

I lived in KCMO..... the Ferguson on the west of side of Missouri and when I go visit family there there racist oppressive cops could care less how much money I have, they hate me because of my skin color and has nothing to do with what I drive or where I live.

Males of color being preyed on by cops has NOTHING to do with money and being rich doesn't minimize that oppression seeing there are plenty of rich POC who are harrased by the police on some level

The retired GM worker in Detroit was well off and was still beat half to death by the police for NOTHING

The guy in the Walmart was there to but gun for his kid... still shot in the back...

homogenizing police preying on poor communities of color into just economic issues is placing part of the onus on the people who are poor vs ALL of the onus on the cops who refuse to have working relationships with

[Exilednight]

162. Which car would you rather be in?

A corner drugstore gets robbed and the store owner can only identify them race and being male.

Scenario 1: the store is in Malibu and the store owner identifies them as 3 black men who stole a six pack of beer.

The police pull over a car with three black men, you, Will Smith and Kevin Hart riding in a Bentley with a six pack in the back seat.

Scenario 2: the store is in East LA and the store owner identifies them as three white kids. You're white in a pinto with two other white boys and a six pack sitting in one of their laps.

Which car do you choose?

[azurnoir]

78. Interesting statement about 'priorities' as economic and racial inequality are like conjoined twins

[DanTex]

86. That's a plausible argument, but some people don't see it that way.

In the 50s, for example, there was less economic inequality but more racial inequality than there is now.

So criticizing Sanders for not directly talking about race is perfectly legitimate.

[azurnoir]

102. as long as there is a gap in income based on race my point stands the same would be true of gender

but it was a nice try anyway

[DanTex]

105. Sure, but a lot of people don't see it that way.

Why do you think it is that Clinton's polling gap over Sanders is largest among blacks?

[azurnoir]

107. Link please

[uponit7771]

125. I'm STILL 21 more times likely to get shot by the police has NOTHING to do with money... that's the

... media pushing the "if they were richer they wouldn't get murdered by the police" crap

[freshwest]

109. He did attend the black lives matter parade in NYC, IIRC. Willing to be corrected. n/t

[romanic]

122. Its his first speech though.

What makes you think Mr. Sanders wouldn't talk about race issues in another speech? And another question, why wouldn't have a more diverse crowd in another state with more diverse demographics? I mean, why the outrage so soon?

[DanTex]

130. That's true.

--What makes you think Mr. Sanders wouldn't talk about race issues in another speech?
I think he will.
--And another question, why wouldn't have a more diverse crowd in another state with more diverse demographics?
There would be.
--I mean, why the outrage so soon?
I'm not outraged. All I'm saying is that pointing out the lack of emphasis on race and related issues in his kick-off speech is not a "cheap shot", it is legitimate criticism.

[uponit7771]

123. +1

[uponit7771]

124. +1

[seabeyond]

11. all it is, is a demographic issue. i say we relax and see where he goes. it is just the start. nt

[sufrommich]

13. Actually I think what started it here was an OP about a poll

showing Hillary Clinton with huge support from African Americans and it dovetailed from there.

[peecoolyour]

15. It's not an issue at all.

Unless his campaign is prohibiting people of color from attending.

Anyone is free to attend as far as I know. If someone has evidence to the contrary, they should show us.

[MineralMan]

16. It's a MORONIC cheap shot.

Anyone who would say something like that is not paying any attention at all. Both Clinton and Sanders have good histories when it comes to race, civil rights and other equality issues. People who are trying to stir something up over this are just going to get their hands stinky from stirring crap.

You're correct about the demographics in Vermont. Just about everyone at that announcement was a local. The criticism is meaningless and constitutes some sort of shit-stirring.

Either candidate will be fine in all of those issues. That's not where they differ. Not at all.

[gollygee]

17. Every candidate has to talk about issues of racism, sexism, etc.

At least every candidate who wants to win a national election, and particularly any Democratic candidate. That isn't a cheap shot. Everybody watches what he says and wants to hear that he cares about them and the difficulties they face. Everybody. And no it isn't enough to talk about what he did decades ago. People want to hear specifically about issues members of oppressed groups are facing today. For women, that's the erosion of abortion rights, equal pay. For people of color I'd guess it's how they're being killed on a regular basis with no one hardly ever held accountable, particularly when the police are involved. Or how their protests are dealt with by police. The erosion of voting rights. For LGBT people, probably marriage rights, anti-discrimination laws. Candidates can't only talk about economics and act like these are petty side issues.

I really believe he does care about these issues and my plan is to vote for him, but it is understandable for people to want him to speak about these kinds of things if he is going to be their candidate. It is not a cheap shot. I want him to win and I do think he can, but he can't without creating excitement among women, people of color, LGBT, and members of other oppressed groups.

[Zorra]

18. Those who are trying to paint Bernie as a racist are most likely paid corporatist trolls.

Because no one but a paid corporatist troll would ever sink so low as to shamelessly imply that Senator Sanders is a racist.

Being a paid lying scumbag corporatist troll a filthy job, and only a shallow, conscienceless moral degenerate could do it.

[seabeyond]

19. "trying to paint Bernie as a racist " that would be NO ONE. those trying to paint duers

as "trying to paint Bernie as a racist " is bullshit

[DisgustipatedinCA]

20. The jury has your back 7-0.

On Thu May 28, 2015, 09:48 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

Those who are trying to paint Bernie as a racist are most likely paid corporatist trolls.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6740713

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

The "paid corporatist troll" argument is Alex Jones grade dumb. Can we nip pointing the paranoid finger of shame at DUers before it gets out of control? Please.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Thu May 28, 2015, 09:57 AM, and the Jury voted 0-7 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Standard fare for gun-controllers in their "discussions," and only rarely hidden, even when an individual is singled out.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: The alerter's comments seem a bit weak to me. Leave it alone, I say.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Election season. Accusations of trolling. Accusations of racism. I feel like hiding this would mean hiding hundreds of posts. Let it stand.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Hell no I'm not voting to hide this. I saw the thread that started all this garbage, and it was a race-baiting hit piece. I endorse every word of the alerted post.

[Zorra]

24. Thanks. Every genuine poster here knows the obvious: neither Bernie nor Hillary have

a racist, sexist, or homophobic bone in their bodies, and that supporting either one does not mean the supporter is a racist, or a sexist or a homophobe in any way.

[BrotherIvan]

28. Well, some have had to "evolve"

And some have actually walked the walk and not just talked. There is a difference.

[azurnoir]

103. along with 'some' don't wait for the latest poll before talking the talk

not to mention walking the walk

[BrotherIvan]

104. Shh, don't talk about that!

[ieoeja]

56. No, not all of us. Some of us have not forgotten the racism in Hillary's 2008 campaign.

And for some of us, forgiveness is not likely.

[bravenak]

108. I agree with this. I never forget.

[Jackpine Radical]

159. Aw, that wasn't racism.

It was cynical opportunism--or in other words, it was just Hillary being Hillary.

[gollygee]

22. Nobody is trying to paint him as a racist

Saying that he needs to talk about issues of racism more (or he won't win the election) isn't calling him racist. He has to excite his base, and people of color are part of his base. As are women. He needs to talk about issues that are high on the radar of those groups.

[merrily]

132. Yes they are. Sexist, too. Same old, same old accusations from a certain group of DUers.

[gollygee]

134. No one has called him sexist either. n/t

[Renew Deal]

23. I don't believe that.

It's easy to throw around the paid troll accusations. The same accusation can be made against some of Bernie's supporters on this site. The accusation would be that they are paid to divide Democrats. And that helps republicans.

[Zorra]

37. You are entitled to your opinion. I can't think of any other reason why any sincere person would

attempt to make veiled implications that either Bernie, Hillary, or their supporters as being racist.

"Transfer", and/or "Association" are propaganda techniques that marketers and trolls of all stripe use frequently to push their agenda. What is going on here at DU with this implied racist bullshit is that certain posters are using racism as an associative connection to Bernie Sanders and his supporters.

"Oh lookee here! All the people in the crowd of Bernie supporters are white! And aproximately 53% are male! And none of them are wearing rainbow colors. And check out this blog that discusses how he is completely ignoring the problem of anti-Semitism in America!?!

Not good enough, Bernie!"

When Bernie supporters start implying and pushing a veiled meme that Secretary Clinton and her supporters are racist, sexist, homophobic, whatever, etc, I'll consider buying your argument that people here could be getting paid to support Bernie Sanders simply in order to divide Democrats.

My instincts and experience say "always follow the money".

[KittyWampus]

31. Straw man. I haven't seen DU'ers painted Sanders as a racist. Just inept at dealing with race

when it comes to his staff and campaign.

He's running for the nomination of the Democratic party in a national race.

[Zorra]

40. Best to stop piling it on, the wagon is already overloaded with race baiting horseshit. nt

[Jokerman]

57. Jury Results

On Thu May 28, 2015, 02:32 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

Best to stop piling it on, the wagon is already overloaded with race baiting horseshit. nt
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6741254

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Accusing a Duer of "race baiting" when they merely said race was dealt with in an inept way. Not a racist way, as they claim- but as overlooking the issue. This ends up being an attempt to silence POC and the dreaded SJWs by calling them race baiters. That's RW bullshit.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Thu May 28, 2015, 02:44 PM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I don't think a user was called out. A situation has been.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Think this refers to the OP article and the discussion in general rather than to the poster this replies to
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: This post is disruptive
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Don't see opinions as against TOS...get a grip.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[Gore1FL]

60. You are popular, today! (Jury Results)

On Thu May 28, 2015, 02:32 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

Best to stop piling it on, the wagon is already overloaded with race baiting horseshit. nt
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6741254

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Accusing a Duer of "race baiting" when they merely said race was dealt with in an inept way. Not a racist way, as they claim- but as overlooking the issue. This ends up being an attempt to silence POC and the dreaded SJWs by calling them race baiters. That's RW bullshit.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Thu May 28, 2015, 02:44 PM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I don't think a user was called out. A situation has been.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Think this refers to the OP article and the discussion in general rather than to the poster this replies to
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: This post is disruptive
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Don't see opinions as against TOS...get a grip.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[Zorra]

98. "This, above all: To thine own self be true,

And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

~ William Shakespeare, Hamlet Act 1, scene 3, 78–82

Thanks for posting the results. People have a tendency to get upset when their bad game gets exposed. I'm not here to be popular, obviously.


An entirely new meme is called for. I wonder what it will be? Bernie is squeaky clean and difficult to attack with anything of real substance, so other bizarre false implications will be necessary, and forthcoming, as surely as the sun will rise tomorrow.

I'm so glad that I don't have to campaign for Bernie by using deceitful implications in order to try to cast aspersions on Secretary Clinton's character. She's alright with me.

I got real issues, real facts, real game...

Bernie Sanders On The Issues

[bettyellen]

47. Please link to these claims of Sanders being racist or stop putting horrid words in people's

Mouths. Seriously insulting bullshit.

[treestar]

21. A lot of cheap shots are made at others too

There are a lot of people on the internet without much depth of discussion.

[KittyWampus]

30. So? Governor Clinton had African Americans on his staff. FACT- Sanders and his campaign

couldn't be bothered to reach out.

If he's running for the Democratic party nomination in a NATIONAL campaign, his campaign manager should have gone the extra mile to ensure the opening day rally looked at least partially diverse.

[Tarheel_Dem]

33. I stand by my original assessment of that kickoff. The optics were horrible for a "Democrat".

And the fact that he didn't address any of the issues important to PoC speaks volumes. Do I believe Bernie is racist? No. But was that event an exercise in racial insensitivity? You Betcha. And no made up justifications, or charges of "race baiting" or "paid troll" are gonna change my opinion.

[uponit7771]

129. +1, omg yes... if that was an major corp and I was going in for a job interview I'd turn it down

... or at least give it a thought.

In the place were I see there SHOULD be diversity and I don't see it at THE LEAST it looks odd

[MohRokTah]

34. Sanders supporters must HATE Chris Hayes

[JustAnotherGen]

41. And maybe he will

Here's the end game -

Imagine Black voters have a choice between Sanders and Mike Huckabee (really aggressively racist bullshit has come out of him).


It's election day and we learn Sanders is behind.

Back in 2003 - Chris Rock was in this movie Head of State. When it was learned he was ahead - the Director does all of these shots of white folks literally running to the polls. It was pretty funny in the pre Obama Era.


But a reality horror show like Huck being close to the White House could make black folks literally drop whatever we are doing and run like road runner to the polls.

I will. Hell to the yeah I will. I mean - I'll be voting and taking people to the polls anyways on Election day - but if any balks at the free ride and they are black like me and Huck is close?

I'll just bring up all of his racist horse shit and scare them into voting.

[MohRokTah]

43. To be honest, I don''t think this point has any bearing on the GE WRT Sanders.

The importance of the POC portion of the Democratic base cannot be ignored in a national set of primaries and caucuses, though, and I believe that's where the criticism is truly leading.

I believe a Sanders nomination would result in enthusiastic support from POC in the scenario you've painted for a GE, even if a more moderate member of the Insane Clown Posse that is the GOP nomination field is nominated.

[JustAnotherGen]

49. IF he ignores it

Then he won't get NY, VA, SC, PA (look to Philly and Pittsburgh), NJ, TX and dare I say - CA.

That will end his candidacy. Throw in MA and GA (the WELL educated black northern population that stayed or moved there after university) - he won't be the nominee.

To me - SC is the test. It's early this round again - yes? The black population both free and as a slave in the antebellum period - and their descendants still there today -


It's the one of the few ways they can be heard in that hell. How each of the four in play now appeal to South Carolina primary voters is going to be interesting to watch.

Then watch them appeal to young, black, and affluent in the Greater Atlanta region . . .

Watching two men I went to high school with - both advanced degree holders (one at Harvard and one at Yale) that both attended Morehouse and stayed there post university - watching them on Facebook . . .

The public defender is for Sanders.

The former wall street attorney who is now a Pastor is for O'Malley.

They've had a couple of arguments on Facebook that I'm staying out of.

[BrotherIvan]

51. Or Jeb Bush, or Ted Cruz, or Santorum, or...

You're talking too much sense now.

[JustAnotherGen]

55. They just SUUUUUUUUUCK

Those people suck! They do!

Let's have a good clean game of primary but at the end of the day - none of our candidates suuuuuuuuuuuck!

[BrotherIvan]

59. You said it

They're so laughably bad that I'm fairly confident all of my black and brown friends and neighbors can see right through it. No worries. Because they're not religious whackjobs or gargantuan idiots. Really? Who knew?

[Cha]

121. "The Problem that "insurgent" progressive Dem prez candidates tend to face is expanding their base

past white, college-educated voters."! What was he thinking!!!???



Doesn't he know that it's not suppose to be mentioned much less discussed.. because he'll be accused of calling Bernie a "racist" and then what?!!!

[seabeyond]

146. i still have one following along nipping at my heels, accusing me saying sanders is racist, cause i

said what hayes said, long before hayes said it.

[Cha]

181. They couldn't realize how

bullyingly obnoxious that is and does not represent Bernie's campaign in the best light.

I think Sen Sanders would be appalled, seabeyond.

[seabeyond]

182. i think he would also, and i think he would have no issue to listening. i do not think he is weak.

others are treating him like he must be coddled. i do not buy into that.

[Cha]

183. I know, huh.. "coddled" is a good word for it.

[uponit7771]

148. +1

[lookatme]

54. I have entered BIZARRO WORLD

For this to be an brought up as an issue reeks of desperation to try and find something wrong
with Sanders .


This I did not expect by DUers

[workinclasszero]

58. Right cause look at how Bernie expressed his concern

for issues facing black Americans and immigrants in his first campaign speech the other day.


Oh wait....

[Throd]

70. If he came to my town (in California no less) it would be mostly white people too.

Is he supposed to bus in a bunch of non-white people for better optics?

[peecoolyour]

82. Wait until the "Bernie Sanders is a rape-fantasy-writing misogynist" meme makes it here.

It is currently making its rounds in the conservative blogs.

Won't be long until someone writes it for a left-leaning audience.

[seabeyond]

87. if we talk racism, we are calling him a racist. if we talk misogyny issues, we are calling him a

misogynist? are you getting ahead in line to shut women up now?

[peecoolyour]

96. No, there are conservative bloggers who found something he wrote decades ago.

And are presenting it out of context to paint him as a misogynist with rape fantasies.

I think anyone dumb enough to fall for this kind of disingenuous attack should be called out on it, yes.

[Vinca]

88. This is the first I've heard of this accusation and I find it amusing.

Vermont is a very white state. That's just the way it is. I don't know why because minorities are always welcome there. Maybe the critics think Bernie ought to be more of a politician and bus in a diverse crowd? LOL. Haters gotta hate.

[Thinkingabout]

90. If I was to agree with the many post of Bernie being a racist, It would make me

Think he probably may be with so many trying to redirect or deny. It WAS NOT the intent of the post so many are criticizing but was to point POS was not mentioned in his announcement. Why in the hell would post after post go rolling out when it is apparent there is a misinterpretation of the post. What if other readers misinterpreted the followup post and think Bernie is racists?

[AgingAmerican]

111. All of their arguments are cheap shots

They have nothing and it's driving them nuts.

[Art_from_Ark]

114. Lots of cheap shots

"He didn't devote enough space to "race" in his kick-off speech!!!"

"His crowd in Vermont was lily-white!!!"

"He wrote something weird back in 1972!!!!"

"He doesn't have the experience, even though he's been a mayor, a Congressman, and a Senator!!!!!"

"He can't win because... just because!!!"

It gets old after a while :sigh:

[merrily]

133. Sure deflects from things like Goldman Sachs and TPP, doesn't it?

[RufusTFirefly]

140. Yes. We've long known a certain candidate fights dirty. And now we're seeing it. n/t

[merrily]

141. Yep. And, we've seen it before.

[B Calm]

142. I agree, but do you agree all the cheap shots aimed at Hillary are the same too?

[Renew Deal]

160. I think some are fair and others are not

On all sides.

Criticism of their views on TPP, Guns, voting records, etc. are fair.

Concern about experience, accomplishments, age, and health is fair.

Criticism of things that family members did, implications or racism, etc is not fair.

[seabeyond]

164. pro sanders created the racism conversation when others were merely discussing social justice.

a totally fabricated argument to shut up a core democratic group

again. NO ONE thinks sanders is racist and no one implied, suggested or stated he was.

we only hear this from pro sanders.

[Renew Deal]

165. The "not good enough" post pretty much stated it.

It starts:

"Alana Massey writes about how the Apotheosis of Washington - which was painted in 1865 by Constantino Brumidi and adorns the ceiling of the U.S. Capitol Rotunda - points to the white protestant roots of American racism."

And continues...

It is due to all of the above that I have to say that when Sen. Bernie Sanders kicks off his presidential campaign with a suggestion that he is launching a "political revolution to transform our country," and yet makes zero mention of any of the issues that burden people of color in this country, my response is simply..."Not good enough, Bernie."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026737025

[seabeyond]

166. chris hayes said the same. is he calling sanders a racist? i have been told i repeatedly call sander

a racist and sexist.

no. it did not just start with the op. and no, no one called sanders a racist.

it is a legitimate political discussion. especially if you are a sanders supporter and you want to open up his demographics to take a bite out of clinton supporters.

or hey

just say.... i am saying, .... sanders is a racist and sexist.

[bettyellen]

170. not good enough = evil racist? Lol, on what fucking planet?

[fadedrose]

144. Cheap shots are the only shots

one can take at Bernie Sanders. I hate to use this corny word, but he is virtuous. Nothing will stick. Very frustrating to the supporters of other candidates.

[Romulox]

149. It's "centrists" attempting to attack Sanders...from the Left. It's like your parents trying to be cool

by using some of the new slang they heard on the evening news...

[Thinkingabout]

176. This is a subject fueled by his supporters, I am beginning they are trying to defend Bernie from

something they are not sure. Maybe we should look deeper and find what is attempted to cover. It is now becoming a false talking point, give it up or admit it just might be true.

[d_legendary1]

177. I don't even know where the hell this rumor started

I haven't read jack about Sanders being a racist. In my opinion DU is its own worst enemy when shit like that is made on the fly.

[Thinkingabout]

179. I started seeing posts about this yesterday mostly by his supporters claimng he wasn't racist, like

Planting a seed, wouldn't want to keep it going if I was his supporter.

[d_legendary1]

180. Come to think of it I started seeing those posts yesterday too

Though I don't see the need to have to defend Bernie from such a silly little lie. Take a page from Bernie's book: when people want to talk about other people, its best to talk about the issues to drown out the noise.